Cheating and Exploits

clayandaudrey_ESO

yumyum wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

yumyum wrote: »

Zoner wrote: »

You don't need to be an anti cheat expert to be justly offended by hackers being allowed to return to the game. And it has been confirmed.

I know it's very negative sometimes and I wish it were different, but honestly the amount of disrespect and disconnect this company has shown to its customers is overwhelming, and a bit of ire/outrage is to be expected under the circumstances.

Believe me, if politely asking once and then shutting up was the way to get Zos to listen, I'm sure we all would have done it long before now.

But it does help to under stand why Zos may let cheaters back in the game / or if the player was cheating, and please note that i have never seen a HACKER in ESO i have seen cheaters in ESO, i also under stand what ZoS needs to do, that does not mean that ZoS is going to do or have the skills to deal with what is needed to be done.

Cheat engine is in this game. You have seen a hacker and just did nit realize it I am sure.

And ZOS doesn't need skills to do what is necessary because cheat engine will still be around. What they need is a strict policy on third party cheating that is ADHERED to, not the lax approach they have now.

Go read what a hacker is, what you are seeing are players using a cheat made on a program a 8 year ago can use
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_(expert)

As i said i have never seen a hacker in ESO

I didn't say the person using the hack is the hacker but that is a hacking program.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheat_Engine

Memory hacking software

yumyum

Zoner wrote: »

yumyum wrote: »

Zoner wrote: »

You don't need to be an anti cheat expert to be justly offended by hackers being allowed to return to the game. And it has been confirmed.

I know it's very negative sometimes and I wish it were different, but honestly the amount of disrespect and disconnect this company has shown to its customers is overwhelming, and a bit of ire/outrage is to be expected under the circumstances.

Believe me, if politely asking once and then shutting up was the way to get Zos to listen, I'm sure we all would have done it long before now.

But it does help to under stand why Zos may let cheaters back in the game / or if the player was cheating, and please note that i have never seen a HACKER in ESO i have seen cheaters in ESO, i also under stand what ZoS needs to do, that does not mean that ZoS is going to do or have the skills to deal with what is needed to be done.

I think I speak for a significant portion of the community when I say I believe that there is no justifiable reason as to why confirmed hackers should be allowed back into the game. And, besides this, Zos has had ample opportunity to explain to us the reasons why they decided to Unban them.

The pvp community was hit especially hard by hackers, but the whole community was impacted by it. The evidence was unbelievably blatant and as a result the VMA leaderboards are going to be wiped, which is an admission of guilt in itself.

And finally: Zos has clearly stated that cheating and hacking are a violation of their terms of service. They owe it to us to be equipped to deal with this. That adequate protection was apparently never implemented to begin with us a disgrace in itself.

Not attacking you by the way, hope it isn't coming across like that.

I know you not attacking me

I do under stand how you and and all the other players feel, and don't forget i am also a player of ESO and i do PVP from time to time. But i also under stand why ZoS may have done what it did.

I am not going to go into why ZoS may have done what it did, or what Zos needs to do as that just gives out information which is not needed to be out in the public domain

Zoner

yumyum wrote: »

Zoner wrote: »

yumyum wrote: »

Zoner wrote: »

You don't need to be an anti cheat expert to be justly offended by hackers being allowed to return to the game. And it has been confirmed.

I know it's very negative sometimes and I wish it were different, but honestly the amount of disrespect and disconnect this company has shown to its customers is overwhelming, and a bit of ire/outrage is to be expected under the circumstances.

Believe me, if politely asking once and then shutting up was the way to get Zos to listen, I'm sure we all would have done it long before now.

But it does help to under stand why Zos may let cheaters back in the game / or if the player was cheating, and please note that i have never seen a HACKER in ESO i have seen cheaters in ESO, i also under stand what ZoS needs to do, that does not mean that ZoS is going to do or have the skills to deal with what is needed to be done.

I think I speak for a significant portion of the community when I say I believe that there is no justifiable reason as to why confirmed hackers should be allowed back into the game. And, besides this, Zos has had ample opportunity to explain to us the reasons why they decided to Unban them.

The pvp community was hit especially hard by hackers, but the whole community was impacted by it. The evidence was unbelievably blatant and as a result the VMA leaderboards are going to be wiped, which is an admission of guilt in itself.

And finally: Zos has clearly stated that cheating and hacking are a violation of their terms of service. They owe it to us to be equipped to deal with this. That adequate protection was apparently never implemented to begin with us a disgrace in itself.

Not attacking you by the way, hope it isn't coming across like that.

I know you not attacking me

I do under stand how you and and all the other players feel, and don't forget i am also a player of ESO and i do PVP from time to time. But i also under stand why ZoS may have done what it did.

I am not going to go into why ZoS may have done what it did, or what Zos needs to do as that just gives out information which is not needed to be out in the public domain

Agreed

Pomaikai

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Pomaikai you're entitled to that opinion. But if you are going to hold that opinion you'd better be reporting every single person you see using Malubeth. Have fun finding time to play the game at that point.

People are very quick to label others as cheaters. I haven't played my stam sorc since Orsinium except to craft potions or glyphs. I also don't even have the Malubeth set. I'm just throwing out there that some of the accusations and logical thought lines are kind of ridiculous.

Known bug, Gap closers don't read the y-axis right. So anyone using a gap closer in any situation, by the logic you are implementing, is exploiting, because they maybe shouldn't have been able to hit you on that rock. Or maybe you are exploiting by standing on that rock knowing its a crap shoot whether someone will be able to gap close you or not.

Also, teleport strike is bugged (and has been since launch) in that it can sometimes teleport you through doors. Therefore anyone using teleport strike around a keep is exploiting since it MIGHT teleport them somewhere they didn't intend. (This in my opinion is a complete crap shoot. Its happened to me in the midst of combat by accident but when I try to replicate to test it with a friend, I can't get it to work. I think there is a lag element here that is hard to reproduce in testing).

Which, again using the logic provided by some folks here, means that anyone using a gap closer in PVP is exploiting and should be banned.

The logical framework seems to operate as follows:

All bugs are exploits, so all bugs are cheating. Because there is little way to know if something is bugged at any given time, no one should use any abilities or armor because they might be cheating. Thaumaturge is currently bugged in that its not boosting some abilities as intended, therefore anyone using any points in Thaumaturge until this is fixed is cheating because they are getting an unfair advantage.

And lets not forget, everything in the above logical framework is equally as egregious as someone downloading CE to give themselves infinite health and infinite ultimate.

I'm not advocating for cheating. I'm also not advocating for using known bugs to benefit your character. All I'm saying is there are degrees to things to consider before you rush to label folks as cheating. Humans were blessed with the gift to apply reason and logic, yet the internet seems to be devolving us from that.

Here's the difference... Accidentally using something that is bugged in the game just happens. No harm, no foul.

Learning that something is bugged and THEN using it knowingly for personal gain and a combat advantage is ABSOLUTELY cheating.

Wreuntzylla

NobleNerd wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Solid_Metal it's not the 1st MMO where cheaters have 2nd chance, for example H1Z1 gives cheaters 2nd chance but if they'll make YouTube vidoe where they show their faces and submit to beeing cheaters , apologize etc.

This was back when Smedley was still with Daybreak & I believe it wasn't well received with that community either!

Not well received by the community? I wasn't aware there was a cheaters community among the player base.

I like the idea. It is totally based on free will. They are given a choice and to a certain extent a chance to repair their reputation.

Hiding the names of cheaters certainly is epic fail.

If a person goes so far as to download a third party program to cheat, they are not the poor, witless youngster seduced by the Slimy Brotherhood. They are future white collar inmates and will be right back at it.

Banned cheaters can return on a different account with nobody the wiser. The people that know their voice from streams, videos and TS could let ZoS know they are back but... they don't know they are banned...

In order to keep anonymity, ZoS cannot stop these players from arguing on these forums that they (i) they are great players, (ii) don't need to cheat, (iii) were on vacation during the ban period, (iv) cheats don't exist, and (v) people complaining about cheaters need to git gud or L2P. Nothing will stop them from continuing to manipulate the narrative on the boards.

By hiding cheaters, ZoS is expressly permitting abuse and bullying of their non-cheating community on these forums by those same cheaters.

A few more reasons, but out of time.

Wreuntzylla

Pomaikai wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Pomaikai you're entitled to that opinion. But if you are going to hold that opinion you'd better be reporting every single person you see using Malubeth. Have fun finding time to play the game at that point.

People are very quick to label others as cheaters. I haven't played my stam sorc since Orsinium except to craft potions or glyphs. I also don't even have the Malubeth set. I'm just throwing out there that some of the accusations and logical thought lines are kind of ridiculous.

Known bug, Gap closers don't read the y-axis right. So anyone using a gap closer in any situation, by the logic you are implementing, is exploiting, because they maybe shouldn't have been able to hit you on that rock. Or maybe you are exploiting by standing on that rock knowing its a crap shoot whether someone will be able to gap close you or not.

Also, teleport strike is bugged (and has been since launch) in that it can sometimes teleport you through doors. Therefore anyone using teleport strike around a keep is exploiting since it MIGHT teleport them somewhere they didn't intend. (This in my opinion is a complete crap shoot. Its happened to me in the midst of combat by accident but when I try to replicate to test it with a friend, I can't get it to work. I think there is a lag element here that is hard to reproduce in testing).

Which, again using the logic provided by some folks here, means that anyone using a gap closer in PVP is exploiting and should be banned.

The logical framework seems to operate as follows:

All bugs are exploits, so all bugs are cheating. Because there is little way to know if something is bugged at any given time, no one should use any abilities or armor because they might be cheating. Thaumaturge is currently bugged in that its not boosting some abilities as intended, therefore anyone using any points in Thaumaturge until this is fixed is cheating because they are getting an unfair advantage.

And lets not forget, everything in the above logical framework is equally as egregious as someone downloading CE to give themselves infinite health and infinite ultimate.

I'm not advocating for cheating. I'm also not advocating for using known bugs to benefit your character. All I'm saying is there are degrees to things to consider before you rush to label folks as cheating. Humans were blessed with the gift to apply reason and logic, yet the internet seems to be devolving us from that.

Here's the difference... Accidentally using something that is bugged in the game just happens. No harm, no foul.

Learning that something is bugged and THEN using it knowingly for personal gain and a combat advantage is ABSOLUTELY cheating.

You mean like the definition of exploit?

Pomaikai

Yup.

SwaminoNowlino

Pomaikai wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Pomaikai you're entitled to that opinion. But if you are going to hold that opinion you'd better be reporting every single person you see using Malubeth. Have fun finding time to play the game at that point.

People are very quick to label others as cheaters. I haven't played my stam sorc since Orsinium except to craft potions or glyphs. I also don't even have the Malubeth set. I'm just throwing out there that some of the accusations and logical thought lines are kind of ridiculous.

Known bug, Gap closers don't read the y-axis right. So anyone using a gap closer in any situation, by the logic you are implementing, is exploiting, because they maybe shouldn't have been able to hit you on that rock. Or maybe you are exploiting by standing on that rock knowing its a crap shoot whether someone will be able to gap close you or not.

Also, teleport strike is bugged (and has been since launch) in that it can sometimes teleport you through doors. Therefore anyone using teleport strike around a keep is exploiting since it MIGHT teleport them somewhere they didn't intend. (This in my opinion is a complete crap shoot. Its happened to me in the midst of combat by accident but when I try to replicate to test it with a friend, I can't get it to work. I think there is a lag element here that is hard to reproduce in testing).

Which, again using the logic provided by some folks here, means that anyone using a gap closer in PVP is exploiting and should be banned.

The logical framework seems to operate as follows:

All bugs are exploits, so all bugs are cheating. Because there is little way to know if something is bugged at any given time, no one should use any abilities or armor because they might be cheating. Thaumaturge is currently bugged in that its not boosting some abilities as intended, therefore anyone using any points in Thaumaturge until this is fixed is cheating because they are getting an unfair advantage.

And lets not forget, everything in the above logical framework is equally as egregious as someone downloading CE to give themselves infinite health and infinite ultimate.

I'm not advocating for cheating. I'm also not advocating for using known bugs to benefit your character. All I'm saying is there are degrees to things to consider before you rush to label folks as cheating. Humans were blessed with the gift to apply reason and logic, yet the internet seems to be devolving us from that.

Here's the difference... Accidentally using something that is bugged in the game just happens. No harm, no foul.

Learning that something is bugged and THEN using it knowingly for personal gain and a combat advantage is ABSOLUTELY cheating.

Okay, that's fine. But do you have any points into Thaumaturge?

Rohamad_Ali

Any policy updates or new info ? No

Wreuntzylla

yumyum wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

yumyum wrote: »

Zoner wrote: »

You don't need to be an anti cheat expert to be justly offended by hackers being allowed to return to the game. And it has been confirmed.

I know it's very negative sometimes and I wish it were different, but honestly the amount of disrespect and disconnect this company has shown to its customers is overwhelming, and a bit of ire/outrage is to be expected under the circumstances.

Believe me, if politely asking once and then shutting up was the way to get Zos to listen, I'm sure we all would have done it long before now.

But it does help to under stand why Zos may let cheaters back in the game / or if the player was cheating, and please note that i have never seen a HACKER in ESO i have seen cheaters in ESO, i also under stand what ZoS needs to do, that does not mean that ZoS is going to do or have the skills to deal with what is needed to be done.

Cheat engine is in this game. You have seen a hacker and just did nit realize it I am sure.

And ZOS doesn't need skills to do what is necessary because cheat engine will still be around. What they need is a strict policy on third party cheating that is ADHERED to, not the lax approach they have now.

Go read what a hacker is, what you are seeing are players using a cheat made on a program a 8 year ago can use
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_(expert)

As i said i have never seen a hacker in ESO

From your link:

"Today, mainstream usage of "hacker" mostly refers to computer criminals, due to the mass media usage of the word since the 1980s. This includes what hacker slang calls "script kiddies," people breaking into computers using programs written by others, with very little knowledge about the way they work. This usage has become so predominant that the general public is unaware that different meanings exist."

Note that the link also calls a hacker an "expert," so unless you are a tier one security specialist or a hacker, what makes you think you would know a hacker when you see one?

In actuality, experts understand that in most situations you cannot know if a hack is underway without network forensics.

Pomaikai

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Pomaikai you're entitled to that opinion. But if you are going to hold that opinion you'd better be reporting every single person you see using Malubeth. Have fun finding time to play the game at that point.

People are very quick to label others as cheaters. I haven't played my stam sorc since Orsinium except to craft potions or glyphs. I also don't even have the Malubeth set. I'm just throwing out there that some of the accusations and logical thought lines are kind of ridiculous.

Known bug, Gap closers don't read the y-axis right. So anyone using a gap closer in any situation, by the logic you are implementing, is exploiting, because they maybe shouldn't have been able to hit you on that rock. Or maybe you are exploiting by standing on that rock knowing its a crap shoot whether someone will be able to gap close you or not.

Also, teleport strike is bugged (and has been since launch) in that it can sometimes teleport you through doors. Therefore anyone using teleport strike around a keep is exploiting since it MIGHT teleport them somewhere they didn't intend. (This in my opinion is a complete crap shoot. Its happened to me in the midst of combat by accident but when I try to replicate to test it with a friend, I can't get it to work. I think there is a lag element here that is hard to reproduce in testing).

Which, again using the logic provided by some folks here, means that anyone using a gap closer in PVP is exploiting and should be banned.

The logical framework seems to operate as follows:

All bugs are exploits, so all bugs are cheating. Because there is little way to know if something is bugged at any given time, no one should use any abilities or armor because they might be cheating. Thaumaturge is currently bugged in that its not boosting some abilities as intended, therefore anyone using any points in Thaumaturge until this is fixed is cheating because they are getting an unfair advantage.

And lets not forget, everything in the above logical framework is equally as egregious as someone downloading CE to give themselves infinite health and infinite ultimate.

I'm not advocating for cheating. I'm also not advocating for using known bugs to benefit your character. All I'm saying is there are degrees to things to consider before you rush to label folks as cheating. Humans were blessed with the gift to apply reason and logic, yet the internet seems to be devolving us from that.

Here's the difference... Accidentally using something that is bugged in the game just happens. No harm, no foul.

Learning that something is bugged and THEN using it knowingly for personal gain and a combat advantage is ABSOLUTELY cheating.

Okay, that's fine. But do you have any points into Thaumaturge?

For Jabs and Beams, yes. Both are DoT's and are working as intended with Thaumaturge as per ZOS. ZOS keeps breaking Thaumaturge so it doesn't affect Jabs at all though.

Laggus

You'll know when your credit card the company has stored on their server has been maxed out buying crap in 10 different countries across the world in 5 minutes flat.

CMz

This one is taking a long holiday from PvP and trials. Playing clean is pointless and unrewarding; if not just plain frustrating. Even PvE in Cyrodiil has become a nightmare - ganked w seven meteors while working on the fishing achievement yesterday and tea-bagged by a hairball who was featured in several of the posted videos of blatant exploiters. Banned and un-banned apparently. Just done.

SwaminoNowlino

Pomaikai wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Pomaikai you're entitled to that opinion. But if you are going to hold that opinion you'd better be reporting every single person you see using Malubeth. Have fun finding time to play the game at that point.

People are very quick to label others as cheaters. I haven't played my stam sorc since Orsinium except to craft potions or glyphs. I also don't even have the Malubeth set. I'm just throwing out there that some of the accusations and logical thought lines are kind of ridiculous.

Known bug, Gap closers don't read the y-axis right. So anyone using a gap closer in any situation, by the logic you are implementing, is exploiting, because they maybe shouldn't have been able to hit you on that rock. Or maybe you are exploiting by standing on that rock knowing its a crap shoot whether someone will be able to gap close you or not.

Also, teleport strike is bugged (and has been since launch) in that it can sometimes teleport you through doors. Therefore anyone using teleport strike around a keep is exploiting since it MIGHT teleport them somewhere they didn't intend. (This in my opinion is a complete crap shoot. Its happened to me in the midst of combat by accident but when I try to replicate to test it with a friend, I can't get it to work. I think there is a lag element here that is hard to reproduce in testing).

Which, again using the logic provided by some folks here, means that anyone using a gap closer in PVP is exploiting and should be banned.

The logical framework seems to operate as follows:

All bugs are exploits, so all bugs are cheating. Because there is little way to know if something is bugged at any given time, no one should use any abilities or armor because they might be cheating. Thaumaturge is currently bugged in that its not boosting some abilities as intended, therefore anyone using any points in Thaumaturge until this is fixed is cheating because they are getting an unfair advantage.

And lets not forget, everything in the above logical framework is equally as egregious as someone downloading CE to give themselves infinite health and infinite ultimate.

I'm not advocating for cheating. I'm also not advocating for using known bugs to benefit your character. All I'm saying is there are degrees to things to consider before you rush to label folks as cheating. Humans were blessed with the gift to apply reason and logic, yet the internet seems to be devolving us from that.

Here's the difference... Accidentally using something that is bugged in the game just happens. No harm, no foul.

Learning that something is bugged and THEN using it knowingly for personal gain and a combat advantage is ABSOLUTELY cheating.

Okay, that's fine. But do you have any points into Thaumaturge?

For Jabs and Beams, yes. Both are DoT's and are working as intended with Thaumaturge as per ZOS. ZOS keeps breaking Thaumaturge so it doesn't affect Jabs at all though.

If you have points into Thaumaturge then by your own definition you are exploiting and a cheater (if you are on console that is, forgot to throw that part in there). Thaumaturge hasn't been updated in the current console patch to work with jabs/sweeps. So if you're on PC then okay, but by your definition anyone with points into Thaumaturge on console is an exploiter as they are using a known bug to get an advantage.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/272118/templars-are-not-scaling-correctly-on-console#latest

Am I actually calling you an anyone else a cheater? No. I'm just pointing out the flaws in the logic you are presenting. When Zenimax rolls out patches with known bug and issues, which were brought up on the PTS, its mighty hard to call them exploits. You are entitled to think that way, but as evidenced by the fact that no one is getting banned for using Malubeth, gap closers, or Thaumaturge, I'd be inclined to think even ZOS disagrees with you. (Though that argument loses steam because they appear to be ignoring everything and banning no one, so maybe even using CE is acceptable now?)

Writ Exploit = Immediate Hotfix
Gap closing onto keeps = ignored for 2 + years now...
CE = Temp ban and free to keep using

Mysk

Hello everyone.

I've been considering subbing for a month or two but the talk of cheaters being so common has me (understandably) concerned. As such I'm wondering how much this will impact my game play.

* My character is about lvl 40, give or take
* I have no real desire to partake in PvP at any point (not a judgement on pvp, I think it's great but it's just not my thing).

So considering this, is the cheating in this game likely to have an impact on my experience? It's more-or-less a single player experience for me with optional co-op.

WebBull

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

maintaining an open discussion on the matter is important to us.

Is maintaining the discussion important ZOS or is fixing the problem? Either way, if this issue truly is important to ZOS, then 1) this thread should be pinned and 2) it should be a two way dialog. Neither is happening atm which leads me to believe it isn't near as important to you as you claim it is.

While this issue drags on and on, cheaters continue to play. Worst part is that all the publicity in these threads about ZOS doing nothing, has probably breed hundreds of new cheaters now realizing that they can get away with it.

And unfortunately, they can.

SirAndy

Mysk wrote: »

So considering this, is the cheating in this game likely to have an impact on my experience? It's more-or-less a single player experience for me with optional co-op.

@Mysk
As long as you're not trying to get a spot on any of the leader-boards, you'll be fine.

rfennell_ESO

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Pomaikai you're entitled to that opinion. But if you are going to hold that opinion you'd better be reporting every single person you see using Malubeth. Have fun finding time to play the game at that point.

People are very quick to label others as cheaters. I haven't played my stam sorc since Orsinium except to craft potions or glyphs. I also don't even have the Malubeth set. I'm just throwing out there that some of the accusations and logical thought lines are kind of ridiculous.

Known bug, Gap closers don't read the y-axis right. So anyone using a gap closer in any situation, by the logic you are implementing, is exploiting, because they maybe shouldn't have been able to hit you on that rock. Or maybe you are exploiting by standing on that rock knowing its a crap shoot whether someone will be able to gap close you or not.

Also, teleport strike is bugged (and has been since launch) in that it can sometimes teleport you through doors. Therefore anyone using teleport strike around a keep is exploiting since it MIGHT teleport them somewhere they didn't intend. (This in my opinion is a complete crap shoot. Its happened to me in the midst of combat by accident but when I try to replicate to test it with a friend, I can't get it to work. I think there is a lag element here that is hard to reproduce in testing).

Which, again using the logic provided by some folks here, means that anyone using a gap closer in PVP is exploiting and should be banned.

The logical framework seems to operate as follows:

All bugs are exploits, so all bugs are cheating. Because there is little way to know if something is bugged at any given time, no one should use any abilities or armor because they might be cheating. Thaumaturge is currently bugged in that its not boosting some abilities as intended, therefore anyone using any points in Thaumaturge until this is fixed is cheating because they are getting an unfair advantage.

And lets not forget, everything in the above logical framework is equally as egregious as someone downloading CE to give themselves infinite health and infinite ultimate.

I'm not advocating for cheating. I'm also not advocating for using known bugs to benefit your character. All I'm saying is there are degrees to things to consider before you rush to label folks as cheating. Humans were blessed with the gift to apply reason and logic, yet the internet seems to be devolving us from that.

Here's the difference... Accidentally using something that is bugged in the game just happens. No harm, no foul.

Learning that something is bugged and THEN using it knowingly for personal gain and a combat advantage is ABSOLUTELY cheating.

Okay, that's fine. But do you have any points into Thaumaturge?

For Jabs and Beams, yes. Both are DoT's and are working as intended with Thaumaturge as per ZOS. ZOS keeps breaking Thaumaturge so it doesn't affect Jabs at all though.

If you have points into Thaumaturge then by your own definition you are exploiting and a cheater (if you are on console that is, forgot to throw that part in there). Thaumaturge hasn't been updated in the current console patch to work with jabs/sweeps. So if you're on PC then okay, but by your definition anyone with points into Thaumaturge on console is an exploiter as they are using a known bug to get an advantage.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/272118/templars-are-not-scaling-correctly-on-console#latest

Am I actually calling you an anyone else a cheater? No. I'm just pointing out the flaws in the logic you are presenting. When Zenimax rolls out patches with known bug and issues, which were brought up on the PTS, its mighty hard to call them exploits. You are entitled to think that way, but as evidenced by the fact that no one is getting banned for using Malubeth, gap closers, or Thaumaturge, I'd be inclined to think even ZOS disagrees with you. (Though that argument loses steam because they appear to be ignoring everything and banning no one, so maybe even using CE is acceptable now?)

Writ Exploit = Immediate Hotfix
Gap closing onto keeps = ignored for 2 + years now...
CE = Temp ban and free to keep using

The general issue isn't whether or not someone is using a broken ability.

It's whether or not they are doing it intentionally.

e.g. "essa"ing it up by building around broken abilities.

There is quite a difference between someone having had points in thaum and someone building around the bug with it.

That difference is one case is exploiting and the other is just a bug.

Mysk

SirAndy wrote: »

Mysk wrote: »

So considering this, is the cheating in this game likely to have an impact on my experience? It's more-or-less a single player experience for me with optional co-op.

@Mysk
As long as you're not trying to get a spot on any of the leader-boards, you'll be fine.

Thanks for the feedback, sir. o/

jknight201

CMz wrote: »

This one is taking a long holiday from PvP and trials. Playing clean is pointless and unrewarding; if not just plain frustrating. Even PvE in Cyrodiil has become a nightmare - ganked w seven meteors while working on the fishing achievement yesterday and tea-bagged by a hairball who was featured in several of the posted videos of blatant exploiters. Banned and un-banned apparently. Just done.

This is how Zos seems to be addressing the cheating problem: stop everyone from talking about it as much as possible, un-ban people who are known cheaters and then just hope the whole problem goes away. Fixing their broken game seems to be at or near the bottom of the priority list.

PVP areas are essentially unplayable right now. Good job Zos on running off all the people who were playing this game for the PVP content. Fortunately I haven't seen any blatant cheating in Trials, but it's obvious people are cheating in vMSA (and, by extension, probably other content as well). It's probably only a matter of time before that spills over to more PVE content.

There is no point right now to trying to get a good vMSA score. You'll be totally outclassed by a cheater. And by whatever warped logic they use, Zos has decided not to clear the leaderboards (or remove the offending scores).

Dubhliam

@SwaminoNowlino
Tell me, did ZOS intend for a 1 skill point passive to have a very high proc chance, while putting another skill point into that passive reduces the chance significantly?

Please stop shoving Echatere poop at our way, this thread is starting to stink.

As for YOU, ZOS:
The amount of negligence for your game has led some "less moral" players to preach all those exploits are intended.

Give yourself an applause.

KhajiitiLizard

Cuyler wrote: »

KhajiitiLizard wrote: »

Nefas wrote: »

http://www.esoleaderboards.com/

"Say No To Hackers In ESO" Lol

I just counted 68 "*"s on the vMA leaderboards... 68! Also, more than half of them were from the EU server.

What are you going on about? You realize those stars ("*") represent who has an acct registered on ESOdatabase.com right? They do not represent anything to do with hacking.

@KhajiitiLizard Seriously, this is the witchhunt type *** ppl need to chill the f out about. Those stars are simply links to ESO-database accts where people register their stats. If anything they are the most transparent players in whole game. GG

Well, maybe it the site actually explained what the asterisks were for... this symbol has been used before to denote cheaters.

SwaminoNowlino

@Dubhliam I'm not arguing they did, but some guy programmed it to behave that way so maybe. Though I doubt it. I'm arguing that if you're leveling a character and you don't have the second point unlocked, it's kind of ridiculous to label you as a cheater. And if you already put that point there, you'd better pay to reset all your skill points so you don't have a point in there. Otherwise you're a cheater.

You ran a stoplight, you should have your drivers license taken away because you are a reckless driver. Or, you were rushing someone to the hospital. There are such things at mitigating circumstances, degrees, and nuance. All of which you all have begun to ignore in your rush to label everyone a cheater. Again, Zenimax has never publicly stated anywhere in game for the wider player base what is bugged and what you shouldn't do.

So if someone starts playing a Stam sorc and he puts a point in that passive, who has no idea that it is bugged, you are labeling that person a cheater. It's just not rational. Just trying to get you all to think with reason and logic, but can quickly see those are in short supply.

So Blah blah blah OUTRAGE blah blah blah CHEATER!!!! LOOK AT ME!!! IM MORE OUTRAGED THAN THE PERSON WHO POSTED BEFORE ME!!! CANNOTE TO ME SOME HIGHER LEVEL OF INTERNET MORALITY!!!

Agree that ZOS has absolutely dropped the ball. There is an iron curtain of information. No one communicates bugs to the larger player base, no one hot fixes big bugs like that. Console players will have to deal with this particular bug for a month or two. With no information. Dead silence. Inexcusable.

SwaminoNowlino

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Pomaikai you're entitled to that opinion. But if you are going to hold that opinion you'd better be reporting every single person you see using Malubeth. Have fun finding time to play the game at that point.

People are very quick to label others as cheaters. I haven't played my stam sorc since Orsinium except to craft potions or glyphs. I also don't even have the Malubeth set. I'm just throwing out there that some of the accusations and logical thought lines are kind of ridiculous.

Known bug, Gap closers don't read the y-axis right. So anyone using a gap closer in any situation, by the logic you are implementing, is exploiting, because they maybe shouldn't have been able to hit you on that rock. Or maybe you are exploiting by standing on that rock knowing its a crap shoot whether someone will be able to gap close you or not.

Also, teleport strike is bugged (and has been since launch) in that it can sometimes teleport you through doors. Therefore anyone using teleport strike around a keep is exploiting since it MIGHT teleport them somewhere they didn't intend. (This in my opinion is a complete crap shoot. Its happened to me in the midst of combat by accident but when I try to replicate to test it with a friend, I can't get it to work. I think there is a lag element here that is hard to reproduce in testing).

Which, again using the logic provided by some folks here, means that anyone using a gap closer in PVP is exploiting and should be banned.

The logical framework seems to operate as follows:

All bugs are exploits, so all bugs are cheating. Because there is little way to know if something is bugged at any given time, no one should use any abilities or armor because they might be cheating. Thaumaturge is currently bugged in that its not boosting some abilities as intended, therefore anyone using any points in Thaumaturge until this is fixed is cheating because they are getting an unfair advantage.

And lets not forget, everything in the above logical framework is equally as egregious as someone downloading CE to give themselves infinite health and infinite ultimate.

I'm not advocating for cheating. I'm also not advocating for using known bugs to benefit your character. All I'm saying is there are degrees to things to consider before you rush to label folks as cheating. Humans were blessed with the gift to apply reason and logic, yet the internet seems to be devolving us from that.

Here's the difference... Accidentally using something that is bugged in the game just happens. No harm, no foul.

Learning that something is bugged and THEN using it knowingly for personal gain and a combat advantage is ABSOLUTELY cheating.

Okay, that's fine. But do you have any points into Thaumaturge?

For Jabs and Beams, yes. Both are DoT's and are working as intended with Thaumaturge as per ZOS. ZOS keeps breaking Thaumaturge so it doesn't affect Jabs at all though.

If you have points into Thaumaturge then by your own definition you are exploiting and a cheater (if you are on console that is, forgot to throw that part in there). Thaumaturge hasn't been updated in the current console patch to work with jabs/sweeps. So if you're on PC then okay, but by your definition anyone with points into Thaumaturge on console is an exploiter as they are using a known bug to get an advantage.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/272118/templars-are-not-scaling-correctly-on-console#latest

Am I actually calling you an anyone else a cheater? No. I'm just pointing out the flaws in the logic you are presenting. When Zenimax rolls out patches with known bug and issues, which were brought up on the PTS, its mighty hard to call them exploits. You are entitled to think that way, but as evidenced by the fact that no one is getting banned for using Malubeth, gap closers, or Thaumaturge, I'd be inclined to think even ZOS disagrees with you. (Though that argument loses steam because they appear to be ignoring everything and banning no one, so maybe even using CE is acceptable now?)

Writ Exploit = Immediate Hotfix
Gap closing onto keeps = ignored for 2 + years now...
CE = Temp ban and free to keep using

The general issue isn't whether or not someone is using a broken ability.

It's whether or not they are doing it intentionally.

e.g. "essa"ing it up by building around broken abilities.

There is quite a difference between someone having had points in thaum and someone building around the bug with it.

That difference is one case is exploiting and the other is just a bug.

That is quite a reasonable response compared to others on here. But let me present this to you. If someone reading this plays on console and sees that Thamaturge is bugged, should they not then be obligated to pay to respect their points out of Thamaturge until it's fixed? And then pay again to reset them once it is fixed? Because they are knowingly gaining an advantage over others because their CP is working for them where it's not for others.

Also not sure what you mean by "essa"ing it up.

Clerics1985

it's so tiring, to be able to watch Videos all over the web about Diablo 3's Bot/hack purge and t

Pomaikai wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Pomaikai you're entitled to that opinion. But if you are going to hold that opinion you'd better be reporting every single person you see using Malubeth. Have fun finding time to play the game at that point.

People are very quick to label others as cheaters. I haven't played my stam sorc since Orsinium except to craft potions or glyphs. I also don't even have the Malubeth set. I'm just throwing out there that some of the accusations and logical thought lines are kind of ridiculous.

Known bug, Gap closers don't read the y-axis right. So anyone using a gap closer in any situation, by the logic you are implementing, is exploiting, because they maybe shouldn't have been able to hit you on that rock. Or maybe you are exploiting by standing on that rock knowing its a crap shoot whether someone will be able to gap close you or not.

Also, teleport strike is bugged (and has been since launch) in that it can sometimes teleport you through doors. Therefore anyone using teleport strike around a keep is exploiting since it MIGHT teleport them somewhere they didn't intend. (This in my opinion is a complete crap shoot. Its happened to me in the midst of combat by accident but when I try to replicate to test it with a friend, I can't get it to work. I think there is a lag element here that is hard to reproduce in testing).

Which, again using the logic provided by some folks here, means that anyone using a gap closer in PVP is exploiting and should be banned.

The logical framework seems to operate as follows:

All bugs are exploits, so all bugs are cheating. Because there is little way to know if something is bugged at any given time, no one should use any abilities or armor because they might be cheating. Thaumaturge is currently bugged in that its not boosting some abilities as intended, therefore anyone using any points in Thaumaturge until this is fixed is cheating because they are getting an unfair advantage.

And lets not forget, everything in the above logical framework is equally as egregious as someone downloading CE to give themselves infinite health and infinite ultimate.

I'm not advocating for cheating. I'm also not advocating for using known bugs to benefit your character. All I'm saying is there are degrees to things to consider before you rush to label folks as cheating. Humans were blessed with the gift to apply reason and logic, yet the internet seems to be devolving us from that.

Here's the difference... Accidentally using something that is bugged in the game just happens. No harm, no foul.

Learning that something is bugged and THEN using it knowingly for personal gain and a combat advantage is ABSOLUTELY cheating.

Back when DK's where doing Reverb bash, the entire Community including all the streamers where saying to use the exploit, to get it noticed. they Literally have videos where they are saying "you have to use em if you want to compete"

So no, i'ma go ahead and side with them, If it's in the game, and isn't getting attention from the Devs, then show them what it can and will do and they will eventually change it. Look at the Sorcs Shields people got tired of Crying shields OP and just started rolling sorcs and Blam you got a 6 second shield

Zaldan

Solid_Metal wrote: »

Goldie wrote: »

FortheloveofKrist wrote: »

ZOS_AlanG wrote: »

We'd previously said we wanted to wait until we had new information before re-opening this topic. However, a large number of people contacted us to request having a thread in the meantime, so we created one. Some question what the purpose of the thread could be without new information, or without the ability to discuss specific bans. Those are reasonable frustrations, and in the meantime this thread is largely for general policy, or to simply express frustration. There are some very constructive posts for both.

Okay, well at least you are being honest that this is simply a damage control thread that is not intended to provide any actual answers.

They are getting rid of anyone who implies that ZOS is failing to take action against hackers. I'll be gone before the day is out, regardless of whether or not I have actually broken any forum rules. The rules are set up so that if you comment that ZOS is not taking your own complaints seriously they can ban you for "bashing ZOS". In reality ZOS has already done an inexorable amount of damage themselves by not publicly addressing or taking action on this VERY SERIOUS ISSUE for over two years now.

i already bashing them enough, probably my forum account will get trouble soon

if they have balls to do it in forum, why not ingame tho

no money lost from banning u from the forums

Papa_Hunt

It is my personal hope that ZOS is in fact taking this more seriously than it appears. How could they blatantly ignore such a serious problem? And if they are indifferent, I can see a mass exodus...then the cheaters can try and out cheat each other. That's the future if this is ignored for too much longer. I for one, am very close to punching...

Papa_Hunt

And can they not detect this cheat engine thing? THAT seems to trump all other cheats/exploits, no?

Zaldan

NobleNerd wrote: »

daemonios wrote: »

DHale wrote: »

The permanent bans are not being lifted. I have several of them on my friends list none have logged in since that day they were banned and hope it stays that way. I check it daily tbh. Is you have any real (verifiable) information to the contrary. Post it.

You don't know what you're talking about, so don't make such sweeping statements. Some permanent bans have been lifted, the players have been seen in-game, and @ZOS_JessicaFolsom has stated they might give permanently banned players a last chance. The thread where she posted this is locked so I can't use quote, but it's been quoted by others multiple times. Inform yourself or stop spreading misinformation please.

I find this interesting. I mean they have "7 million players"! What would even a few thousand permanent bans mean to them when it comes to income (end sarcasm). In any MMO why would any company EVER lift a permanent ban on blatant offenders?

No they have HAD seven million players or rather copies of the game sold, no even close to being the same thing with the amount of people with multiple accounts and the amount of people no longer playing the game, always interesting what u can "PROVE" with statistics

Turelus

Speaking of the seven million thing.

It still bugs me that they seem to have a system for recording monster kills, quests completed, bounties paid and mudcrabs killed. Yet no logs as to what players have farmed when it comes to removal of items from exploiting accounts.

Either the numbers in the trailer were faked, or they do have the logs for the items but just haven't take the choice to remove anything.

This isn't meant as a snarky post (though it could be read as it without me saying this) it just honestly confuses me.