Cheating and Exploits

Solid_Metal

Dubhliam wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Just finished reading up on the new posts and sadly there isn't much progress being made here from both sides (ZOS and Players)

I have said my bit here and unless I see something worth posting to debate I'm just going to /lurk this thread and watch.
I have five months before my sub expires to make a choice on in to renew it or not, this is probably the biggest issue on that for me.

In all other games, such issues would be long dealt with.

In ESO, a five month trial is somewhat of gamble.

look at how they handle the situation, i even doubt that they will ever release official statement regarding of cheater punishment and why they give them 2nd chance....but seriously, this is the 1st MMO that i EVER played, that give second chance to Cheaters, its just mind boggling

juhasman

Solid_Metal it's not the 1st MMO where cheaters have 2nd chance, for example H1Z1 gives cheaters 2nd chance but if they'll make YouTube vidoe where they show their faces and submit to beeing cheaters , apologize etc.

Cously

I can confirm at least two friends of mine were and are perma banned. They had to make second accounts, wether they cheated or got banned accidently, they haven't logged on their banned accounts yet.

eaton68_ESO

KramUzibra wrote: »

No perma bans, warnings first.

Warning my ass, you received that by agreeing to the ToS.

visionality

The problem with not banning or unbanning cheaters is that honest players start wondering whether they shouldn't start cheating themselves.

Every evening I spend in Cyro or IC, I see at least one blatant cheater, normally it's 4-5. People move with twice and three times the max possible speed. People have "magic health" that just eternally pops back to 100% unless you burst them to death in less than the half-second that CE needs to rewrite the value. People teleport to locations they couldn't naturally reach, not even with exploits. Reporting those people - even with video evidence - doesn't take them out of the game, ignoring them starts feeling sour after a time.

And once you realize how many blatant cheaters run unpunished through the game, you start wondering about some others. Are they just amazingly good at using their skills and rotations? Or are they the "clever cheaters" who use their hacks in a way that still seems vagely plausible? And then: Why shouldn't you do just the same? Why not giving yourself that extra advantage that all the superb players seem to have?

It's a vicious circle of suspicion and temptation, and that's why Zenimax should have strict and unbending rules dealing when it comes to cheating.

Wreuntzylla

Nénlindë wrote: »

I've never seen a single hacker on ESO, I'm on PS4.

Neat, what are you using to detect the lack of cheating? Cheat engine detector 2.0?

Zoner

You pay to play with hackers and walk on eggshells for profanity and for calling said hackers out.

They should change their TOS to reflect this more accurately

Zoner

One of the worst things is feeling like an idiot for ever having thought these hackers were that talented and for ever having given them respect for it. Lesson learned

clayandaudrey_ESO

For anyone interested just Google eso and cheat. You will be amazed at how how far back, how factual, and how disinterested certain parties are to what is going on.

WanderingJarlPuncher

Turelus wrote: »

Just finished reading up on the new posts and sadly there isn't much progress being made here from both sides (ZOS and Players)

I have said my bit here and unless I see something worth posting to debate I'm just going to /lurk this thread and watch.
I have five months before my sub expires to make a choice on in to renew it or not, this is probably the biggest issue on that for me.

im considering going back to an old school mmorpg or simply droping out of mmo life because tesou and wow are killing the concept behind mmo and by making SMO. Solo Mode Online

Cuyler

KhajiitiLizard wrote: »

Nefas wrote: »

http://www.esoleaderboards.com/

"Say No To Hackers In ESO" Lol

I just counted 68 "*"s on the vMA leaderboards... 68! Also, more than half of them were from the EU server.

What are you going on about? You realize those stars ("*") represent who has an acct registered on ESOdatabase.com right? They do not represent anything to do with hacking.

@KhajiitiLizard Seriously, this is the witchhunt type *** ppl need to chill the f out about. Those stars are simply links to ESO-database accts where people register their stats. If anything they are the most transparent players in whole game. GG

ola.wilhelmssonb16_ESO

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

For anyone interested just Google eso and cheat. You will be amazed at how how far back, how factual, and how disinterested certain parties are to what is going on.

I just did this and I was somewhat shocked and dismayed. I strongly recommend that the ZOS dev team does this. "If you know the enemy and know yourself you need not fear the results of a hundred battles." Sun Tzu

ZOS_DaryaK

We've removed a few posts that were not contributing to the conversation or were off-topic. Criticism is encouraged as long as it's kept constructive.

Zoner

For the sake of clarity, and to make it understood to people who buy this game expecting a fair and just disciplinary system, please change your TOS to include the following:

1. ZOS can permaban you whenever we want. This is most likely a knee jerk reaction, unless you were swearing or disrupting RP.

2. You have the right to appeal. If you have received a permaban for hacking using a third party program, even with numerous previous offenses, you will likely be unbanned. If you were banned for swearing, no clemency will be shown.

3. If you are a high profile streamer who has committed an offence, you will only have your account deactivated briefly as a token gesture of 'toughness'. If you are a regular rank and file customer, your appeals will be ignored and your account will remain permanently banned.

4. We hold no value on your 'fair gaming environment' or expectations as a paying customer. You agree to purchase this content on the understanding that your opinion is worthless and ZOS will take minimal if any action against further hacking in game, and that the enjoyment of the hackers is more important than your right to game on a level playing field.

5. We will heavily moderate any dissent and ignore your tickets if you complain. If you continue to complain, we will threaten to ban your IP.

There, that should do it

yumyum

Lot of hate and so much miss information in this topic, in fact i did not know we had so many anti cheat experts / specialists as members of ESO.

Zoner

You don't need to be an anti cheat expert to be justly offended by hackers being allowed to return to the game. And it has been confirmed.

I know it's very negative sometimes and I wish it were different, but honestly the amount of disrespect and disconnect this company has shown to its customers is overwhelming, and a bit of ire/outrage is to be expected under the circumstances.

Believe me, if politely asking once and then shutting up was the way to get Zos to listen, I'm sure we all would have done it long before now.

NobleNerd

dagonbeer wrote: »

Let's not get sidetracked here. In game exploits I trust ZOS will fix eventually, even if it is months away, and there I believe temporary bans and warnings to be appropriate.

The real concern are cheat engine hacks, which may or may not be detectable by ZOS and so we rely upon the threat of enforcement. Now they've shown themselves toothless, I expect cheaters to go on with less fanfare in PvP (no more unlimited meteors, but tweaked speeds and stats, definitely) and with impunity in PvE arenas such as vMA.

Let's not be to sure of that... I believe the gap closer bug has been in the game for well over 3-4 months now! I really believe they just don't have the talent on their team to deal with these issues effectively.... They deleted all the dear in Cyrodiil thinking it would help resolve the performance issues.... RIP poor dear

NobleNerd

juhasman wrote: »

Solid_Metal it's not the 1st MMO where cheaters have 2nd chance, for example H1Z1 gives cheaters 2nd chance but if they'll make YouTube vidoe where they show their faces and submit to beeing cheaters , apologize etc.

This was back when Smedley was still with Daybreak & I believe it wasn't well received with that community either!

Zoner

I can think of something to delete that would improve the game; hacker's accounts

Rohamad_Ali

NobleNerd wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Solid_Metal it's not the 1st MMO where cheaters have 2nd chance, for example H1Z1 gives cheaters 2nd chance but if they'll make YouTube vidoe where they show their faces and submit to beeing cheaters , apologize etc.

This was back when Smedley was still with Daybreak & I believe it wasn't well received with that community either!

Smedly has a long history of making bad decisions in games . If he ever writes a book every producer should read it and do the opposite .

Pomaikai

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Minalan that is some A Grade bull bleep. So he's just not supposed to use a class passive because ZOS screwed up their game? That's utterly ridiculous in just about every way. So if a Templar's burning light got screwed up by ZOS, Templar's wouldn't be able to run any of their class abilities by your logic. Everyone is running around with Malubeths, which is a known bug, but he can't run a class ability? And you're gonna claim that's cheating...?

It's called knowingly exploiting, and it sure is a banable offense.

The correct way to handle this is to submit a bug report to ZOS, and then only use it with TWO points into the skill.

Anything else, especially not reporting it and basing a build off of it, is 100% cheating. Posting a YouTube video is being flagrant about it, and the ban should be for a lifetime.

Minalan

Pomaikai wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@Minalan that is some A Grade bull bleep. So he's just not supposed to use a class passive because ZOS screwed up their game? That's utterly ridiculous in just about every way. So if a Templar's burning light got screwed up by ZOS, Templar's wouldn't be able to run any of their class abilities by your logic. Everyone is running around with Malubeths, which is a known bug, but he can't run a class ability? And you're gonna claim that's cheating...?

It's called knowingly exploiting, and it sure is a banable offense.

The correct way to handle this is to submit a bug report to ZOS, and then only use it with TWO points into the skill.

Anything else, especially not reporting it and basing a build off of it, is 100% cheating. Posting a YouTube video is being flagrant about it, and the ban should be for a lifetime.

They fixed it today at least. Almost nobody knew about it since DB launch because they tried so damn hard to keep it a f***ing secret. There's your elite streamers for you.

If you're subscribed to one of these ***'s YouTube or twitch feeds. Please. Unsub. Don't support that kind of garbage.

Combat & Gameplay
Sorcerer
Storm Calling
Implosion: Fixed an issue where the Physical Damage proc from Rank I of this passive ability was always firing.

Pomaikai

Ffastyl wrote: »

It's been two days. Give 'em a week to scrounge something up.

Mate, the issues with Cheat Engine have been reported to ZOS since Beta. They've had freaking TWO DAMNED YEARS to figure out policy and controls!

They've had close to a month since they were forced to pretend to care about it.

yumyum

Zoner wrote: »

You don't need to be an anti cheat expert to be justly offended by hackers being allowed to return to the game. And it has been confirmed.

I know it's very negative sometimes and I wish it were different, but honestly the amount of disrespect and disconnect this company has shown to its customers is overwhelming, and a bit of ire/outrage is to be expected under the circumstances.

Believe me, if politely asking once and then shutting up was the way to get Zos to listen, I'm sure we all would have done it long before now.

But it does help to under stand why Zos may let cheaters back in the game / or if the player was cheating, and please note that i have never seen a HACKER in ESO i have seen cheaters in ESO, i also under stand what ZoS needs to do, that does not mean that ZoS is going to do or have the skills to deal with what is needed to be done.

clayandaudrey_ESO

yumyum wrote: »

Zoner wrote: »

You don't need to be an anti cheat expert to be justly offended by hackers being allowed to return to the game. And it has been confirmed.

I know it's very negative sometimes and I wish it were different, but honestly the amount of disrespect and disconnect this company has shown to its customers is overwhelming, and a bit of ire/outrage is to be expected under the circumstances.

Believe me, if politely asking once and then shutting up was the way to get Zos to listen, I'm sure we all would have done it long before now.

But it does help to under stand why Zos may let cheaters back in the game / or if the player was cheating, and please note that i have never seen a HACKER in ESO i have seen cheaters in ESO, i also under stand what ZoS needs to do, that does not mean that ZoS is going to do or have the skills to deal with what is needed to be done.

Cheat engine is in this game. You have seen the game being hacked by a third party program I am sure.

And ZOS doesn't need skills to do what is necessary because cheat engine will still be around. What they need is a strict policy on third party cheating that is ADHERED to, not the lax approach they have now.

Zoner

yumyum wrote: »

Zoner wrote: »

You don't need to be an anti cheat expert to be justly offended by hackers being allowed to return to the game. And it has been confirmed.

I know it's very negative sometimes and I wish it were different, but honestly the amount of disrespect and disconnect this company has shown to its customers is overwhelming, and a bit of ire/outrage is to be expected under the circumstances.

Believe me, if politely asking once and then shutting up was the way to get Zos to listen, I'm sure we all would have done it long before now.

But it does help to under stand why Zos may let cheaters back in the game / or if the player was cheating, and please note that i have never seen a HACKER in ESO i have seen cheaters in ESO, i also under stand what ZoS needs to do, that does not mean that ZoS is going to do or have the skills to deal with what is needed to be done.

I think I speak for a significant portion of the community when I say I believe that there is no justifiable reason as to why confirmed hackers should be allowed back into the game. And, besides this, Zos has had ample opportunity to explain to us the reasons why they decided to Unban them.

The pvp community was hit especially hard by hackers, but the whole community was impacted by it. The evidence was unbelievably blatant and as a result the VMA leaderboards are going to be wiped, which is an admission of guilt in itself.

And finally: Zos has clearly stated that cheating and hacking are a violation of their terms of service. They owe it to us to be equipped to deal with this. That adequate protection was apparently never implemented to begin with us a disgrace in itself.

Not attacking you by the way, hope it isn't coming across like that.

SwaminoNowlino

@Pomaikai you're entitled to that opinion. But if you are going to hold that opinion you'd better be reporting every single person you see using Malubeth. Have fun finding time to play the game at that point.

People are very quick to label others as cheaters. I haven't played my stam sorc since Orsinium except to craft potions or glyphs. I also don't even have the Malubeth set. I'm just throwing out there that some of the accusations and logical thought lines are kind of ridiculous.

Known bug, Gap closers don't read the y-axis right. So anyone using a gap closer in any situation, by the logic you are implementing, is exploiting, because they maybe shouldn't have been able to hit you on that rock. Or maybe you are exploiting by standing on that rock knowing its a crap shoot whether someone will be able to gap close you or not.

Also, teleport strike is bugged (and has been since launch) in that it can sometimes teleport you through doors. Therefore anyone using teleport strike around a keep is exploiting since it MIGHT teleport them somewhere they didn't intend. (This in my opinion is a complete crap shoot. Its happened to me in the midst of combat by accident but when I try to replicate to test it with a friend, I can't get it to work. I think there is a lag element here that is hard to reproduce in testing).

Which, again using the logic provided by some folks here, means that anyone using a gap closer in PVP is exploiting and should be banned.

The logical framework seems to operate as follows:

All bugs are exploits, so all bugs are cheating. Because there is little way to know if something is bugged at any given time, no one should use any abilities or armor because they might be cheating. Thaumaturge is currently bugged in that its not boosting some abilities as intended, therefore anyone using any points in Thaumaturge until this is fixed is cheating because they are getting an unfair advantage.

And lets not forget, everything in the above logical framework is equally as egregious as someone downloading CE to give themselves infinite health and infinite ultimate.

I'm not advocating for cheating. I'm also not advocating for using known bugs to benefit your character. All I'm saying is there are degrees to things to consider before you rush to label folks as cheating. Humans were blessed with the gift to apply reason and logic, yet the internet seems to be devolving us from that.

yumyum

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

yumyum wrote: »

Zoner wrote: »

You don't need to be an anti cheat expert to be justly offended by hackers being allowed to return to the game. And it has been confirmed.

I know it's very negative sometimes and I wish it were different, but honestly the amount of disrespect and disconnect this company has shown to its customers is overwhelming, and a bit of ire/outrage is to be expected under the circumstances.

Believe me, if politely asking once and then shutting up was the way to get Zos to listen, I'm sure we all would have done it long before now.

But it does help to under stand why Zos may let cheaters back in the game / or if the player was cheating, and please note that i have never seen a HACKER in ESO i have seen cheaters in ESO, i also under stand what ZoS needs to do, that does not mean that ZoS is going to do or have the skills to deal with what is needed to be done.

Cheat engine is in this game. You have seen a hacker and just did nit realize it I am sure.

And ZOS doesn't need skills to do what is necessary because cheat engine will still be around. What they need is a strict policy on third party cheating that is ADHERED to, not the lax approach they have now.

Go read what a hacker is, what you are seeing are players using a cheat made on a program a 8 year ago can use
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_(expert)

As i said i have never seen a hacker in ESO

Pomaikai

WanderingJarlPuncher wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Just finished reading up on the new posts and sadly there isn't much progress being made here from both sides (ZOS and Players)

I have said my bit here and unless I see something worth posting to debate I'm just going to /lurk this thread and watch.
I have five months before my sub expires to make a choice on in to renew it or not, this is probably the biggest issue on that for me.

im considering going back to an old school mmorpg or simply droping out of mmo life because tesou and wow are killing the concept behind mmo and by making SMO. Solo Mode Online

As a Mac user, my choices are even more limited. I'd seriously suggest that you check out Pantheon: Rise of Heroes, and Project Gorgon. New, old school style social MMO's that look like they could be pretty darned cool. I may hold out for them to go live, unless ZOS gets their stuff together.

Zoner

yumyum wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

yumyum wrote: »

Zoner wrote: »

You don't need to be an anti cheat expert to be justly offended by hackers being allowed to return to the game. And it has been confirmed.

I know it's very negative sometimes and I wish it were different, but honestly the amount of disrespect and disconnect this company has shown to its customers is overwhelming, and a bit of ire/outrage is to be expected under the circumstances.

Believe me, if politely asking once and then shutting up was the way to get Zos to listen, I'm sure we all would have done it long before now.

But it does help to under stand why Zos may let cheaters back in the game / or if the player was cheating, and please note that i have never seen a HACKER in ESO i have seen cheaters in ESO, i also under stand what ZoS needs to do, that does not mean that ZoS is going to do or have the skills to deal with what is needed to be done.

Cheat engine is in this game. You have seen a hacker and just did nit realize it I am sure.

And ZOS doesn't need skills to do what is necessary because cheat engine will still be around. What they need is a strict policy on third party cheating that is ADHERED to, not the lax approach they have now.

Go read what a hacker is, what you are seeing are players using a cheat made on a program a 8 year ago can use
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hacker_(expert)

As i said i have never seen a hacker in ESO

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. Splitting hairs over the definition of the commonly accepted term for what occurred in this instance kind of seems irrelevant.
The action, regardless of what you choose to call it, still deserves a permaban.