PTS Patch Notes v2.4.3

Emma_Overload

They need to fix Surge, but going back to 1.6 Surge is not going to do any good... it was ALREADY broken, remember? The lack of procs on DOTs forced Stam Sorcs into really boring Wrecking Blow builds, while Mag Sorcs were missing out on heals from Velocious Curse, one of our most important spells.

What needs to happen is this:

1) Go back to 1.5 Surge, where it procced on anything as often as possible.

Or...

2) Buff the heal of the PTS Surge... I'm talking like 200% or 300% or more.

Surge is a class defining skill, or it least it used to be. The heals should be BIG.

Valrien

STEVIL wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

dagonbeer wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

[*]Surge: This ability and its morphs will now critically heal based on your Weapon Critical or Spell Critical, whichever is higher. We also fixed an issue where the heal from this ability and its morphs was not being reduced by Battle Spirit.

That 1k heal per crit per second is going to be fantastic in PvP! If I take no damage, I'll have healed 6k by the time my ward wears off!

GREAT!!!

Someone willing to chat about how much hesling surge needs to do.

33s, 1-click backbar major buff then run whatever offense you want including dots...

So, i ask you, how much healing in its first 30 seconds of fight does healing need to produce to remaing a viable skill worth using?

For sake of argument, ignore any cp into healing given or recieved.

Assume 20k health.

So if your math 30k over the 30 seconds isnt enough, what is?
60k, 120k, 2 million?

When i look at the other "buff healing onto any attack i want" powers such as Reaper, Killer blade, force siphon etc and even when i look at Rally which provides major buff one click backbar with heal for similar duration... it gives me an idea where surge needs to be, but if you know 30k over 30s isnt balanced...what value would be?

Unbelievable. You are still spewing your nonsense about how it being a 33s buff is an advantage?!?!?!?!

The other heal-on-attacks in this game are infinite buffs. The fact that you even to have cast--and then later recast--this buff is already a downside. Then couple it with the lackluster healing. And in exchange for these two serious limitations, what do we get in return? Oh, right, we can heal off of any damage ability. Whoop-dee-do. Bloodthirst, Sweeps, and Strife are core DPS abilities--not exactly an advantage to expand it to an even greater toolkit.

But what infuriates me about your post isn't that you keep repeating the same nonsense (also, the bit about nobody willing to provide a number--I did: the same heals that sorcs had before this nerf). It's that you keep doing so despite people rebutting you and you ignoring those rebuttals.

First, ok, YOU ARE JUST WRONG.

There are two types of abilities that fall into the brd category of HEAL ON ATTACK.

one set are ATTACK THAT HEAL. This clasd includes strife, jabs and others BUT NOT SURGE. They tend to return a portion of THEIR damage done. YOU KEEP WANTING TO FOOL PEOPLE INTO THINKING SURGE IS ONE OF THESE. BUT IT ISNT.

The other set empowers any attack (with restrictions) to produce healing. Most of these ATE NOT ATTACKS THEMSELVES. (Killer Blade is an exception. After the change, they ALL provide flat rates either a number or a percentage of your health.

The big honking difference is with the latter set ypu can add basically a healing component to a wide variety of powers gaining all their benefits PLUS HEAL.

In the former set you only get that attack with all its limitations.

So if i need stun at long range proced instant cfrag and heal on crit.
Need to interrupt caster... crushing shock and heal at range.
Need to reposition quick... streak and heal.
Low health enemy in crowd... mages wrath thingy... aoe burst plus...
Jabs pretty useless at range or for cc.
Radiant and strife no cc, no aoe, no interrupt...

That is why these are two serarate and distinct classesbof abilities.

One class adds to already competitive powers while the other are unto themselves competitive powers.

And btw saying "what it used to" isnt saying a number. Its hiding a number.

I think i saw someone reference getting 4-5k hps from surge on live.

But nobody serms willing to say surge SHOULD do that plus the buff. Why is that?

Your last line, you're very vague about that. Are you asking why it should heal based on damage plus Spell Power?

If so, it's quite simple. What alternatives would a Sorcerer have as a viable burst heal? What we're getting is MUCH worse than what we have now and both forms (pre-nerf and post-nerf) are worse than the other class abilities such as jabs. Differentiating them as you do it pointless, and I have no idea what point that proves for you.

ContraTempo

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

FIXES & IMPROVEMENTS, BASE GAME PATCH

Alchemy

• ...snip...
  
• Corrected the way poison effects interact with each other:
  
  • Only a single stack of each poison effect can be active on a target. Additional applications of the same effect will refresh the duration of the effect, but will not increase the strength of the effect.
  • Poisons with different effects no longer occasionally overwrite each other.

Are you just saying that they don't stack, or that stronger poisons can't increase the effect once a weaker poison is applied?

So if character Fredieo hits with a weak Gradual Ravage Health poison and then character Sindy hits with a stronger Gradual Ravage Health poison, will it continue to use the weak effect or will that be increased to use the strong effect?

And if Sindy hits first with her stronger poison, then a few ticks later Fredieo hits with his weaker poison, will the stronger effect be extended for the duration of the weaker poison? Or will the amount of damage drop to that of the weaker poison when the duration of the stronger poison expires?

code65536

STEVIL wrote: »

First, ok, YOU ARE JUST WRONG.

There are two types of abilities that fall into the brd category of HEAL ON ATTACK.

one set are ATTACK THAT HEAL. This clasd includes strife, jabs and others BUT NOT SURGE. They tend to return a portion of THEIR damage done. YOU KEEP WANTING TO FOOL PEOPLE INTO THINKING SURGE IS ONE OF THESE. BUT IT ISNT.

That is bloody nonsense. Surge used to work as the portion of the damage done. It proc'ed off of any direct damage ability, but in exchange, it required a crit to proc. Effectively, Surge used to work just like Sweeps and Strife.

It didn't work exactly like Sweeps or Strife, but in terms of actual gameplay experience it effectively worked like those skills.

It amazes me that you continue to try to arbitrarily twist Surge into something that it wasn't so that it could support your broken logic.

But let's say we play your game and treat Surge as one of those other skills. As I've said in one of my other replies to you, find me one nightblade worth their salt who would rely on the heal for Mark or their execute as their primary means of healing. Those heals are considered bonus heals that people don't rely on, and for good reason. And you think that comparing Surge to one of those crap heals is somehow supportive of your point?!

Hell, Surge doesn't even compare well with Rapid Regeneration. You precast Rapid Regeneration and get reliable heals every second that out heal Surge--without you even having to do damage.

Make no mistake about it: Dark Brotherhood has turned the sorc's main source of healing--one of the defining aspects of its survivability and nerfed it into the ground, turning it from an ability that a sorc could rely on in vMA into something that can't even outperform Rapid Regeneration. That is a nerf. No ifs or buts. If you want to argue this, then at the very least, you need to acknowledge that it's a nerf, and then go defend why this nerf is justified. If that was your line of argument, then sure, we can have a conversation. But you are just making a fool of yourself trying to convince people that it's not even a nerf. You're not convincing anyone that this yellow liquid is rain.

KenaPKK

Did Soul Harvest, the magicka morph of Death Stroke, need to be nerfed with Incap Strike? Soul Harvest is hardly overperforming on live.......

Wollust

I really really don't want these poisons to go live.

GoodOlPinkly

code65536 wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

First, ok, YOU ARE JUST WRONG.

There are two types of abilities that fall into the brd category of HEAL ON ATTACK.

one set are ATTACK THAT HEAL. This clasd includes strife, jabs and others BUT NOT SURGE. They tend to return a portion of THEIR damage done. YOU KEEP WANTING TO FOOL PEOPLE INTO THINKING SURGE IS ONE OF THESE. BUT IT ISNT.

That is bloody nonsense. Surge used to work as the portion of the damage done. It proc'ed off of any direct damage ability, but in exchange, it required a crit to proc. Effectively, Surge used to work just like Sweeps and Strife.

It didn't work exactly like Sweeps or Strife, but in terms of actual gameplay experience it effectively worked like those skills.

It amazes me that you continue to try to arbitrarily twist Surge into something that it wasn't so that it could support your broken logic.

But let's say we play your game and treat Surge as one of those other skills. As I've said in one of my other replies to you, find me one nightblade worth their salt who would rely on the heal for Mark or their execute as their primary means of healing. Those heals are considered bonus heals that people don't rely on, and for good reason. And you think that comparing Surge to one of those crap heals is somehow supportive of your point?!

Hell, Surge doesn't even compare well with Rapid Regeneration. You precast Rapid Regeneration and get reliable heals every second that out heal Surge--without you even having to do damage.

Make no mistake about it: Dark Brotherhood has turned the sorc's main source of healing--one of the defining aspects of its survivability and nerfed it into the ground, turning it from an ability that a sorc could rely on in vMA into something that can't even outperform Rapid Regeneration. That is a nerf. No ifs or buts. If you want to argue this, then at the very least, you need to acknowledge that it's a nerf, and then go defend why this nerf is justified. If that was your line of argument, then sure, we can have a conversation. But you are just making a fool of yourself trying to convince people that it's not even a nerf. You're not convincing anyone that this yellow liquid is rain.

Then what abilities to NBs have to EFFECTIVLY heal them if the ones mentioned above do no work?

cschwingeb14_ESO

STEVIL wrote: »

I think i saw someone reference getting 4-5k hps from surge on live.

Just stop. We get it. You're on a mission to nerf sorcs.

Surge on PTS has a theoretical maximum of about 4k HPS (now 2k hps in PvP) on a large-AE situation. Surge on live of course can hit 6-8k HPS in a steel tornado execute spam PvE situation.

IN REALITY, you are going to be getting less than 1k HPS from crit surge in pts PvP. That is terrible compared to Rally

But Sweeps can hit 20k HPS in that situation, both on live and PTS. Funnel spam provides a 25% damage lifetaps (at some point in IC i was getting 4-5k heal crits) in spam situations, with the benefit of a HoT and healing for allies. I don't have numbers for inhale spam, but that undoubtedly trumps Surge on PTS

lathbury

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

I think i saw someone reference getting 4-5k hps from surge on live.

Just stop. We get it. You're on a mission to nerf sorcs.

Surge on PTS has a theoretical maximum of about 4k HPS (now 2k hps in PvP) on a large-AE situation. Surge on live of course can hit 6-8k HPS in a steel tornado execute spam PvE situation.

IN REALITY, you are going to be getting less than 1k HPS from crit surge in pts PvP. That is terrible compared to Rally

But Sweeps can hit 20k HPS in that situation, both on live and PTS. Funnel spam provides a 25% damage lifetaps (at some point in IC i was getting 4-5k heal crits) in spam situations, with the benefit of a HoT and healing for allies. I don't have numbers for inhale spam, but that undoubtedly trumps Surge on PTS

So your saying you were hitting a player for 20k with funnel?

dagonbeer

In the other thread, STEVIL suggested using Surge and Entropy together as a viable combination. I don't think you'll reach any agreement or common ground here. Accept irreconcilable difference of opinion and move on.

Grao

Yet another horrible patch for sorcerers everywhere. Unsurprising...

Tyrannitar

Emma_Eunjung wrote: »

They need to fix Surge, but going back to 1.6 Surge is not going to do any good... it was ALREADY broken, remember? The lack of procs on DOTs forced Stam Sorcs into really boring Wrecking Blow builds, while Mag Sorcs were missing out on heals from Velocious Curse, one of our most important spells.

What needs to happen is this:

1) Go back to 1.5 Surge, where it procced on anything as often as possible.

Or...

2) Buff the heal of the PTS Surge... I'm talking like 200% or 300% or more.

Surge is a class defining skill, or it least it used to be. The heals should be BIG.

Finally we're singing the same song.

@Wrobel, you didn't buff us so we could use DoTs and viably use crit surge

You nerfed crit surge in order to make DoTs paramount in order to proc it and then gave it a flat rate heal that nerfs endgame characters and removes the need for high crit in the first place....

Then you made that flat rate literally 1/5th of what's currently possible on live.

Then you acted like it was a buff.

Nah bruh

Not even a little

Tyrannitar

lathbury wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

I think i saw someone reference getting 4-5k hps from surge on live.

Just stop. We get it. You're on a mission to nerf sorcs.

Surge on PTS has a theoretical maximum of about 4k HPS (now 2k hps in PvP) on a large-AE situation. Surge on live of course can hit 6-8k HPS in a steel tornado execute spam PvE situation.

IN REALITY, you are going to be getting less than 1k HPS from crit surge in pts PvP. That is terrible compared to Rally

But Sweeps can hit 20k HPS in that situation, both on live and PTS. Funnel spam provides a 25% damage lifetaps (at some point in IC i was getting 4-5k heal crits) in spam situations, with the benefit of a HoT and healing for allies. I don't have numbers for inhale spam, but that undoubtedly trumps Surge on PTS

So your saying you were hitting a player for 20k with funnel?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but can't funnel hit multiple players?

Forgive me if I'm wrong.... Isn't most pvp > than 1v1?

XaXa

The sad this is they see the overwhelming negative comments. But they will still release it regardless. ZoS. PLEASE dely this DLC and implement the changes we WANT.

IcyDeadPeople

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

The 60 percent additional resource cost from poisons will kill what little is left of small scale. Sad. Because this was not necessary.

How will this kill small scale battles?

The more difficult it is to play outnumbered, the less incentive there is to play in a small group in open world Cyrodiil. Perhaps prearranged small group fights will still happen, but that's not the same as small group play being viable in Cyrodiil in general.

In outnumbered fights, the numbers of poison procs don't scale... Meaning... If you are outnumbered by, say, 3 vs 1... It's pretty likely that you will be getting poisoned all the time. And given that the resource cost is so high, it will make a huge impact. Bigger groups can also run a variety of different poisons, which will, as far as I've understood, accumulate so that you can have a healing debuff, resource cost debuff, and a poison health drain on you at the same time. Additionally, even if poisons are purgeable... Well... try purging with that additional resource cost, on top of all the other things, when you're already busy trying to just survive... It's one additional layer on top of all the other things that are already against you.

It doesn't really matter if one of the three gets the resource cost increase in turn because he can still do something, gain resources with heavy attacks, and many attack skills are pretty cheap - consider, say, the cost of wrecking blow. Defensive actions, which are needed a lot when outnumbered are resource heavy - healing ward, mines, for instance. Roll dodge has increasing costs, and imagine magicka sorc's cost of streak with the double cost increase. I probably don't even need to mention how resource intensive it is to try to block. Magicka DKs are already suffering tons when outnumbered, 60% cost increase will drain their resources extremely quickly. Not looking good where mistform is concerned either - 60% cost on initiating it, 30% speed buff, and no magicka regen while in it. Or imagine a stam dk that gets hit by both healing reduction and resource drain.

Additionally, the outnumbering groups can spam their attack skills more, which means that they can animation cancel light/heavy attacks more than the outnumbered ones who will be canceling their skills more with dodge roll and weapon swap in order to make full use of their bars.

It's part of a larger trend towards zerging, but this time, I really do have a feeling it'll be the final blow for anything but ganking in small groups in general Cyrodiil.

Some good points. However, are you sure the exact same effect stacks when multiple enemies hit you with it, for example you are saying the 60% cost increase effect becomes 300% if hit 5 times? That seems insane.

I suppose the poison stacking as you describe it would mainly hurt small groups specifically fighting much larger groups. In my case, I usually play solo and often find small random groups fighting other small groups about the same size. These kinds of small battles will always be a lot more fun than zerg encounters because of the lag and demands on client hardware.

At any rate, I imagine there will always be many solo players and small groups in this game - doubtful anyone would suddenly join a large zerg if they don't enjoy it or their PC turns into slideshow around zergs.

Tyrannitar

XaXa wrote: »

The sad this is they see the overwhelming negative comments. But they will still release it regardless. ZoS. PLEASE dely this DLC and implement the changes we WANT.

They won't.

ShalidorsHeir

@ZOS_GinaBruno TY for removing surge from sorc.... idiots! its weaker than before!!!

lathbury

Tyrannitar wrote: »

lathbury wrote: »

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

I think i saw someone reference getting 4-5k hps from surge on live.

Just stop. We get it. You're on a mission to nerf sorcs.

Surge on PTS has a theoretical maximum of about 4k HPS (now 2k hps in PvP) on a large-AE situation. Surge on live of course can hit 6-8k HPS in a steel tornado execute spam PvE situation.

IN REALITY, you are going to be getting less than 1k HPS from crit surge in pts PvP. That is terrible compared to Rally

But Sweeps can hit 20k HPS in that situation, both on live and PTS. Funnel spam provides a 25% damage lifetaps (at some point in IC i was getting 4-5k heal crits) in spam situations, with the benefit of a HoT and healing for allies. I don't have numbers for inhale spam, but that undoubtedly trumps Surge on PTS

So your saying you were hitting a player for 20k with funnel?

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but can't funnel hit multiple players?

Forgive me if I'm wrong.... Isn't most pvp > than 1v1?

I think your thinking of sap essence funnel is single target the only time t hits those kind of numbers in IC is when cast on a mob so its not affected by battle spirit.

GoodOlPinkly

cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

I think i saw someone reference getting 4-5k hps from surge on live.

Just stop. We get it. You're on a mission to nerf sorcs.

Surge on PTS has a theoretical maximum of about 4k HPS (now 2k hps in PvP) on a large-AE situation. Surge on live of course can hit 6-8k HPS in a steel tornado execute spam PvE situation.

IN REALITY, you are going to be getting less than 1k HPS from crit surge in pts PvP. That is terrible compared to Rally

But Sweeps can hit 20k HPS in that situation, both on live and PTS. Funnel spam provides a 25% damage lifetaps (at some point in IC i was getting 4-5k heal crits) in spam situations, with the benefit of a HoT and healing for allies. I don't have numbers for inhale spam, but that undoubtedly trumps Surge on PTS

Where did you get the numbers that Sweeps heals for 20k HPS in pvp?

olsborg

Poison:

60% increased cost is way, way too much, even 30% feels much, but 60% is just....comon zos...

Tavore1138

LOL

Magicka Nerf Cryers 1 - Stamina Underclass 0

Proof again, if anyone still needed it, that ZOS listen to the wrong people.

Jules

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

The more difficult it is to play outnumbered, the less incentive there is to play in a small group in open world Cyrodiil. Perhaps prearranged small group fights will still happen, but that's not the same as small group play being viable in Cyrodiil in general.

In outnumbered fights, the numbers of poison procs don't scale... Meaning... If you are outnumbered by, say, 3 vs 1... It's pretty likely that you will be getting poisoned all the time. And given that the resource cost is so high, it will make a huge impact. Bigger groups can also run a variety of different poisons, which will, as far as I've understood, accumulate so that you can have a healing debuff, resource cost debuff, and a poison health drain on you at the same time. Additionally, even if poisons are purgeable... Well... try purging with that additional resource cost, on top of all the other things, when you're already busy trying to just survive... It's one additional layer on top of all the other things that are already against you.

It doesn't really matter if one of the three gets the resource cost increase in turn because he can still do something, gain resources with heavy attacks, and many attack skills are pretty cheap - consider, say, the cost of wrecking blow. Defensive actions, which are needed a lot when outnumbered are resource heavy - healing ward, mines, for instance. Roll dodge has increasing costs, and imagine magicka sorc's cost of streak with the double cost increase. I probably don't even need to mention how resource intensive it is to try to block. Magicka DKs are already suffering tons when outnumbered, 60% cost increase will drain their resources extremely quickly. Not looking good where mistform is concerned either - 60% cost on initiating it, 30% speed buff, and no magicka regen while in it. Or imagine a stam dk that gets hit by both healing reduction and resource drain.

Additionally, the outnumbering groups can spam their attack skills more, which means that they can animation cancel light/heavy attacks more than the outnumbered ones who will be canceling their skills more with dodge roll and weapon swap in order to make full use of their bars.

It's part of a larger trend towards zerging, but this time, I really do have a feeling it'll be the final blow for anything but ganking in small groups in general Cyrodiil.

Fantastic points.

bsmorrowb14_ESO

Does anyone even want poisons in the game?

CP5

Just one random comment, the 2.4.2 Corrosive Armor looked fine. The lime green visual suited the change and looked good. This new one looks like I have farted and attracted a swarm of flies, and the sound doesn't help.

Bandit1215

Lol I was excited for my Stamsorc next patch, but I truly hate the change to Surge. RIP Stamsorc....... again.

imenace

is this a troll? this must be a *** troll.. WHY THE *** ARE YOU BUFFING POISONS???????? THEY WILL RUIN PVP, REMOVE THEM PLEASE

Minno

bsmorrowb14_ESO wrote: »

Does anyone even want poisons in the game?

Only if there is a defensive counter to them (like an armor slot to slot "oils" that can add stats, resistance, armor, etc )

Purge is too lazy a balance counter on paper.

Minalan

One possibility is to allow 'snakeblood' to decrease the effect and duration of alchemy poisons.

So Master alchemists wouldn't be affected the same way.

Did they even think this through?

Teridaxus

Double post

Teridaxus

WhiteNoiseMaker wrote: »

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

There us no later update.
This is the last one since next week(one week before release) is just bug fixing like with every big update.

I suppose you have proof to cite on your 'fact' that there will be no further updates? Get real. Don't confuse your opinions with facts. You have no proof, no statement of authority, nothing in fact that supports your assertion that there will be no further updates.

Those are the last updates of the last 3 big updates:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/249957/pts-patch-notes-v2-3-4
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/225116/pts-patch-notes-v2-2-2
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/210782/pts-patch-notes-v2-1-3/p1

Bug fixes updates and they did that before too. Why should change their policy because you said something?