Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers

cpuScientist

Also what's the danger if having one class do well in Solo. It really was the ONLY PLACE sorcs shined. They were the solo class. Now they are nothing. Have nothing being nothing. It's really sapped my desire to okay the game lately. I have other classes, but had my fun with my Sorc. I will just have to ride out this patch I guess and depending on what they do next patch, probably Leave all together. Because if I move to another class it runs the risk of being nerfed. Although the other classes would have to fall FAR to reach our poor levels of DPS and Utility

Khaos_Bane

It is incredible how far @Wrobel has gone to wreck the fun of the sorc class, streak, shields, crit surge.

What a fun class it was to play at one time, now @Wrobel has killed all the unique abilities that made it fun.

vanzan

NativeJoe wrote: »

Just want a honest answer here.... Our shields heals, and dps are being nerfed and our streak has been all routinely nerfed...

but the recent activity out there has proven something to me. We arn't the kings of mitigation. never where.

I mean just look at this

yes the guy doing it isn't exactly the reputable type... but my god... at the point he's taking 35 meteors to the face before going down... and You guys are telling me SORCS are the ones that need this nerf?

/facepalm Idk what else to say.

@NativeJoe interested to know more about your comment - why am I not the reputable type?

NativeJoe

vanzan wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

Just want a honest answer here.... Our shields heals, and dps are being nerfed and our streak has been all routinely nerfed...

but the recent activity out there has proven something to me. We arn't the kings of mitigation. never where.

I mean just look at this

yes the guy doing it isn't exactly the reputable type... but my god... at the point he's taking 35 meteors to the face before going down... and You guys are telling me SORCS are the ones that need this nerf?

/facepalm Idk what else to say.

@NativeJoe interested to know more about your comment - why am I not the reputable type?

Because look at that Kill death ratio... thats horrible. Your an argonian. if your lizard dies once, just stay dead!








...lol...

Was actually referring to the other guy. People are focused on the exploiter, I'm focusing on your bad ass mitigation. I'll edit it to be more clear. Anyway My mitigation techniques are under the hammer and I don't see that serious of an issue with them especially considering poisons and the buffs hitting stamina. infact if They had left us just as we where we'd still be at a disadvantage. but no... they had to take more extreme steps.

NativeJoe

Derra wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

As I have said many times. I have one of each class at 16 and come Tuesday I will have 6. And have played and tested and researched the classes extensively, to find the class that best suits me.

And while in PvP my sorc was never my highest damage or my tankiest, it was not even the best of both worlds. My sorc was fun and unique and not underpowered, it was a let sorc. So this silly notion that other classes have to give up.to much to be on par with a shield Sorc is silly and goes against all the different mitigation hots heals through damage burst heals reflects cloaks and what not all those classes have. While all we have is Ward. To make ward as effective as possible we have to stack magicka sky high give up certain useful DPS sets and alot of our damage and alot of our available slots just to be able to be tanky. Now if we go in DPS minded then our wards are much smaller.

I think alot of people are watching the old super Sorc videos and not understand that he's not some fantastic Sorc and proof that Sorcs are op. He's just a great LOS user. Shoot I was playing against a Stamplar today that took 3 of us 12 minutes to kill as we were in LOS city. But when he duled me 1v1 he was at 6% so fast then he started to LOS (which is a crap thing to do in a duel, and I will not stay and fight anymore with that) I was on my magplar by the way. So while he seemed unkillabke when the los was taken away he was not much. Same as Those 1vX sorcs you see. Also in alot of those videos look at the level and skill with which they play it's not a bunch of decked out v16s it's just a lot of new or low level poorly geared guys getting killed.

Also in DB we have to make the biggest sacrifice in game to get hardened ward, an investment that is far to high for the little payoff of hardened ward, and that's actually playing as a Sorc.

It was stated sadly that the ward nerf was a pure pve decision due to vet maelstrom arena data and i believe them. Wards were too good on an average or below average skill level compared to other mechanics.
Sadly nobody at zos bother to take into account that when looking at a high skill level in vmsa the classes were already close (within less than 10% of each other) and that mainly due to ranged/melee limitations.

When looking at a high skill level the old wards were comparable to defense mechanics of tempars and nightblades in pve and they won´t be anymore with the next patch.

As a consequence I´m very much excited to see how they will change surge to offer comparable healing to funnel or puncturing sweeps (as they stated that is their go to point in efficiency). My funnel very easily puts me at above 5k hps when spammed and with surge being crit dependant with 1s gcd those heals would have to be even higher in theory.

I just can´t see the homogenisation they´re aiming for working out for them as the point of balanced is basically a knifes edge with utterly useless on one side and broken OP on the other.

I don't see homogenization, I see sorcs being forced out of shields in pve (besides vma which I still don't fully understand how we're going to even compete in there) , and in pvp we need to avoid direct confrontations, because lack of counter play to a stun at 5 seconds is a bit of an issue. We're going to get wrecked x.x

vanzan

NativeJoe wrote: »

vanzan wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

Just want a honest answer here.... Our shields heals, and dps are being nerfed and our streak has been all routinely nerfed...

but the recent activity out there has proven something to me. We arn't the kings of mitigation. never where.

I mean just look at this

yes the guy doing it isn't exactly the reputable type... but my god... at the point he's taking 35 meteors to the face before going down... and You guys are telling me SORCS are the ones that need this nerf?

/facepalm Idk what else to say.

@NativeJoe interested to know more about your comment - why am I not the reputable type?

Because look at that Kill death ratio... thats horrible. Your an argonian. if your lizard dies once, just stay dead!








...lol...

Was actually referring to the other guy. People are focused on the exploiter, I'm focusing on your bad ass mitigation. I'll edit it to be more clear. Anyway My mitigation techniques are under the hammer and I don't see that serious of an issue with them especially considering poisons and the buffs hitting stamina. infact if They had left us just as we where we'd still be at a disadvantage. but no... they had to take more extreme steps.

ok ok kdr took a hammering because I was trying to video the exploiters in the end I tanked to the extreme to get the ultimate in your face vid.

cpuScientist

Just swap the magicka from bound aegis and the health bonus from the pet passive.

cpuScientist

So not complaining, but magplar can get 14-18k DPS with jabs alone (probably more) and I think that's fair for the type of attack it is and where you need to be positioned and the final untargetable nature of the spell, it can be interuoted and takes a second to proceed, and depends greatly on a passive.

But with 2 pets and curse (counting the curse damage) you are not getting that kind of damage, with 7 slots given up a Sorc still cannot equal the one slot skill of a Templar. How is that fair, how is that balanced?

Even to say look at them as dots is ignorant of the situation. As (excluding the overload bar) to get the best damage possible out of pets you have to give up 5 slots HALF your available slots, and still vampires bane outperforms a pet, dragon claw outperforms it. And class spammables outperforms both pets boosted with curse. They have no place in PvE or trials, you have to work hard to make them work in PvP. When the cookie cutter would probably be better. Pets are to weak to he on your bar taking up that many slots, yet theyhave a whole tree dedicated to them. I could run flame wheel and it would out DPS one of my pets. I could spam heavy attacks amd out DPS my pets.

They are supposed to be more than dots, or atleast outperform them as you have to dual slot them. My liquid lightning and wall of elements combo out DPS's them by a good margin, single target, And those take up 2 slots, not 5 not HALF.

Come on, they take souch effort and investment for so little return.

cpuScientist

IMO if they made.oets stronger, by a nice margin. And switched the health passive with the bound aegis magicka bonus. Then we would not need dark deal. As if a player wanted a heal they would have 2 pets to choose from. That would be out there doing damage and being able to insta heal.

cpuScientist

Our hardened and empowered ward at this point need a boost. One should have a DPS component attached to it ala Templar bubble or some sort of DPS mechanic so it's not a DPS loss to cast it. And one should have a strong HOT heal, like Vigor just 5 - 8 seconds of good strong heals, that also affect your pet.

That way we would have a reason to slot ward. It would provide gameplay benefits, and not be a waste in PvE and would help combat the huge nerf in PvP.

cpuScientist

But at the end of the day all I can say is, replace the magicka bonus from bound aegis with the pet health passive. Do that alone ZOS before it goes live, and we will have something to work with.

cpuScientist

And give us cp160 Necropotence

STEVIL

cpuScientist wrote: »

And give us cp160 Necropotence

Whole heartily agree.

However, with fast shields i am eyeballing Trinimac Valor again.

Can you imagine Valor 5pc and Necropotence 5pc on a two pet build?

Ipslor

And I thought Im just joking

potirondb16_ESO

I also Wonder if the lack of identity for the sorcerer class cannot be one of our worst issue. What do I mean:

1. We are having pets that most of us don't use
2. We are having a lot of CC ability (some of the best of the game) that aren't needed
3. We are also having some of the best overall ultimate in the game but once again we don't use much except overload

Personnally i know I would love to use some pets if those were interesting option and if they didn,t ask me to go double bar. I would also love to use CC if they could be offensive as the DK one. I would also be interested in using other ultimate then overload if I had a better ultimate regeneration.

But if I have all those capacity and always have to act as a middle man:

* Middle-man *

A Sorcerer can use barriere or negate, but if I was a Nightblade I could probably be using Barriere or Veil twice as often.
I can CC some mobs, but I won't do any domage while doing so, maybe better ask a DK to do so then
I can run my pet and heal through the fight but overall I'm probably better of combat prayer or Healing spring since my pet will required my attention a lot more.

__

The fact that sorcerer do have a bunch of great utility or unique ways to do a bunch of stuff also makes them unable to achieve the overall performance of the other classes.

Personnal opinion, delete all the toggle from the Sorc arsenal and bring choose a path

Take care !

Jar_Ek

The post by you @Ipslor was very obviously scarcastic and intended to demonstrate how crazy the quoted post was... at least that was my take on it. But maybe let's not give the devs any ideas...

NativeJoe

cpuScientist wrote: »

IMO if they made.oets stronger, by a nice margin. And switched the health passive with the bound aegis magicka bonus. Then we would not need dark deal. As if a player wanted a heal they would have 2 pets to choose from. That would be out there doing damage and being able to insta heal.

Speaking of pets... I was doing a max stat experiment here...

Look at the "pet damage" at 95k magicka.
1.6k regular, 2.4k crit

To make pets WORTH the slots they take up, we'd literally have to have around 300k magicka. That is how underpowered they are x.x

Anyone else see.... *some balance* issues with pet damage here? x.x

STEVIL

NativeJoe wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

IMO if they made.oets stronger, by a nice margin. And switched the health passive with the bound aegis magicka bonus. Then we would not need dark deal. As if a player wanted a heal they would have 2 pets to choose from. That would be out there doing damage and being able to insta heal.

Speaking of pets... I was doing a max stat experiment here...

Look at the "pet damage" at 95k magicka.
1.6k regular, 2.4k crit

To make pets WORTH the slots they take up, we'd literally have to have around 300k magicka. That is how underpowered they are x.x

Anyone else see.... *some balance* issues with pet damage here? x.x

It depends on what you see pets as.

I see pets "offensively" as a sort of random DOT... that are triggered way before combat starts instead of using a click in combat to lay out and which never expire (unless enemy kills them which is usually a good thing.)

But i see that aspect, DOT, as only a part of their overall benefit. I also see it as their least useful to try and improve.

Seriously though... wouldn't a pre-combat fire DOT doing 1.6k per tick with crit possible and never running down be considered at least marginal on its own?

Now add in "can pull aggro"

Now add in the on-click abilities like a multi-person heal or two or AOE boomboom for more damage.

Now the overall package starts to look better.

Sure toggle sux but hey.... 3rd bar and all.

So, IMO pets do need improvement.
They need to get to the point IMO where an enemy who says "ignore the pets" is taking a risk, not making "an obvious choice."

But to me focusing on the pet's direct damage is the wrong path! Why? because damage in ESO has to be precise, timed, targetted and a player will NEVER be able under tough combat to manage well three different attack sources.

So to me, the answer is to improve the pet's other stuff and thus make them so beneficial alive that an enemy is well served trying to take them out early.

EXAMPLE design would be to give each pet the following two kinds of abilities in addition to their basic light weight but basically dot type attacks.
1-A passive group buff while alive like minor sorc, minor crit, minor heal, minor resist etc etc etc.
2-An active group buff activated by key-click offensive or utility. Matriarch-1=purge group for one effect, matriarch-2=heal group, clanfear-1=fear enemies in area, clanfear-2=taunt enemies in area. .
.
Another option is to allow pets to auto-proc some abilities like a heal based on certain in game triggers. These would have noteworthy cooldowns.

HEAL if anyone lower than 25% health.
Purge snares, roots etc if any pets get snagged.
Magica/stamina boost on death of pet
etc

basicaly if pets had two of the three options listed above outta the box, not counting passives, and still had relatively weak but ongoing direct attacks... they would be much more viable and offer up some interesting group utility benefits.

naturally careful selection as to which abilities pair on which pet but the gist is there.

IMO damage is working up the hardest path to viability because of control and group utility is a much more likely path to balance.

YMMV

Birdovic

@NativeJoe

Now I got curious, how did you reach 95k
Warhorn, Necropotence, ...?

NativeJoe

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

@NativeJoe

Now I got curious, how did you reach 95k
Warhorn, Necropotence, ...?

DAMN FORGOT WARHORN x.x Tell you what next time I'll get it x.x

Dyride

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

@NativeJoe

Now I got curious, how did you reach 95k
Warhorn, Necropotence, ...?

Hmm, 2pc Willpower, 4 pc Succession, 5 pc Necropotence. Undaunted, racials, and Warhorn.
Just a guess though.

There will be CP 160 Grace of the Ancients next patch I think.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

@NativeJoe

Now I got curious, how did you reach 95k
Warhorn, Necropotence, ...?

The second boss in Elden has these bugs that drops a stamina or magicka buff when they die, stand in it and your magicka/stamina skyrockets for a bit.

Feynn

I actually really wonder what classes are played by the developers, and how many of them play Sorcerer. I also wonder how many of them are actual Elder Scrolls fans who played previous Elder Scrolls games. I started playing as a Sorcerer back when the game launched because - frankly enough - I wanted to be a wizard. I always loved magic in previous Elder Scrolls games, and playing as a Sorcerer seemed like the most obvious choice, allowing me to use as many "Schools of Magic" as possible. I was particularly excited about Conjuration, and the possibility of summoning daedric creatures. Imagine my disappointment when I realized that was an entirely unviable option, when each pet takes up two slots and the pets are so underpowered. And underwhelming: I mean, a scamp, a clannfear and a twilight? What happened to daedroths, dremora, flame atronachs, and all the other cool daedra I could summon in previous games? Sure, the storm atronach looks nice... but who can afford to waste any ultimate when I need to save it up for Overload?

The developers really need to sit down and have a long deep reflection about what they can do to rework this class and give it a proper "sorcerer" feel once again. Sorcerers are supposed the be the powerful wizards, the wielders of arcane magic, the scryers of the mysteris of Oblivion. Right now, the class simply feels like it lacks an identity. I am just going to take my main character, fold him up, put him in a drawer, and patiently hope that the next major patch will bring some long-awaited changes. In the meantime, the game may just as well have only three classes.

cpuScientist

Just swap the magicka from.biund aegis and the health bonus from the pet passive.

cpuScientist

STEVIL wrote: »

NativeJoe wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

IMO if they made.oets stronger, by a nice margin. And switched the health passive with the bound aegis magicka bonus. Then we would not need dark deal. As if a player wanted a heal they would have 2 pets to choose from. That would be out there doing damage and being able to insta heal.

Speaking of pets... I was doing a max stat experiment here...

Look at the "pet damage" at 95k magicka.
1.6k regular, 2.4k crit

To make pets WORTH the slots they take up, we'd literally have to have around 300k magicka. That is how underpowered they are x.x

Anyone else see.... *some balance* issues with pet damage here? x.x

It depends on what you see pets as.

I see pets "offensively" as a sort of random DOT... that are triggered way before combat starts instead of using a click in combat to lay out and which never expire (unless enemy kills them which is usually a good thing.)

But i see that aspect, DOT, as only a part of their overall benefit. I also see it as their least useful to try and improve.

Seriously though... wouldn't a pre-combat fire DOT doing 1.6k per tick with crit possible and never running down be considered at least marginal on its own?

Now add in "can pull aggro"

Now add in the on-click abilities like a multi-person heal or two or AOE boomboom for more damage.

Now the overall package starts to look better.

Sure toggle sux but hey.... 3rd bar and all.

So, IMO pets do need improvement.
They need to get to the point IMO where an enemy who says "ignore the pets" is taking a risk, not making "an obvious choice."

But to me focusing on the pet's direct damage is the wrong path! Why? because damage in ESO has to be precise, timed, targetted and a player will NEVER be able under tough combat to manage well three different attack sources.

So to me, the answer is to improve the pet's other stuff and thus make them so beneficial alive that an enemy is well served trying to take them out early.

EXAMPLE design would be to give each pet the following two kinds of abilities in addition to their basic light weight but basically dot type attacks.
1-A passive group buff while alive like minor sorc, minor crit, minor heal, minor resist etc etc etc.
2-An active group buff activated by key-click offensive or utility. Matriarch-1=purge group for one effect, matriarch-2=heal group, clanfear-1=fear enemies in area, clanfear-2=taunt enemies in area. .
.
Another option is to allow pets to auto-proc some abilities like a heal based on certain in game triggers. These would have noteworthy cooldowns.

HEAL if anyone lower than 25% health.
Purge snares, roots etc if any pets get snagged.
Magica/stamina boost on death of pet
etc

basicaly if pets had two of the three options listed above outta the box, not counting passives, and still had relatively weak but ongoing direct attacks... they would be much more viable and offer up some interesting group utility benefits.

naturally careful selection as to which abilities pair on which pet but the gist is there.

IMO damage is working up the hardest path to viability because of control and group utility is a much more likely path to balance.

YMMV

I get what you are trying to say. But DPS rules the game sorry. If they are taking 5-7 slots to use properly . They have to be doing DPS near equal to what I could instead slot there. And as I said before if I slot just 2 skills in their place I can out DPS them.

Pulling aggro is nice in Solo situations sure. In a group that aggro pull is USELESS, your tank pulls that aggro. You just have to kill everything as you are the DPS.

Previous game wise, they were used to deal damage. If we have to 7 slot for our utility but don't gain any dage, then once again we are useless, and only one would be invited to trials, so they can let buff and continue to do s*** damage.

Pets are killable they take up so many slots, they have a high cast time. So yes they very much should have dage capability to help make up for that. Their active abilties should then also help with the DPS or provide a heal, so if I wanted to deal damage I could if I wanted to play defensive well then I could.

Pets only scale off Magicka, so they are only useful if you stack it sky high. Yet having pets out gives you more health??? Health is nice. But a pet sorc is usually running 16-17k health that 8% is not useful magicka however the thing pets need to be good is given up as if not it would require me to slot 2 more toggles.

So let's look at that. To have the most effective pets possible, ignoring gear (but the gear is another issue) we would have to double slot pets slot curse so that's 7 out of 15 slots gone, but we need more magicka so we have to slot bound aegis and inner light so that's now 13 THIRTEEN slots gone poof. And with that investment still weak.

Pet sorcs need to be able to do big DPS. Not waste all those spot so we can have what some aggro taken off... come on... a pet sorc with the 2 pets and curse should.be able to out DPS. A Templar just only spamming sweeps/jabs. A 5 slot investment should be able to out damage a 1 slot investment that also HEALS.

cpuScientist

Does everyone understand how HORRIBLE of a skill Bound armor is. First off Nightblades gets this skills effect as a passive, a triple slot skill for us a passive for them. Then all it does is increase magicka, and gives us minor mitigation. Nothing that will save us from death just they saw it was useless and decided it had to do something else so let's drop this useless piece on it.

The whole effect of this skill would be betrer served as a side effect to another skill. (I mean it's a passive so why not) this skill is weak beyond belief.

It should be added to something like lightning armor or just given as a passive altogether. Because honestly it is such a waste of space.

cpuScientist

So ZOS here is the effect of having hardened armor on the front bar, it will mean that we will.have to unslot inner light and use potions (a very expensive play style) just so we can have 3 DPS abilities on our front bar, such as Wall Force pulse and frag. If not we will have to go destro destro so we can put LL and Wall on the back bar and take even bigger hits to our DPS.

Please look at how the ass works. Hire someone off these forums who knows sorcs well talk with them listen to their input.

I can volunteer you some names of you want. NativeJoe comes to mind rao had some ideas lol. Hire me even. I will take help you ZOS.

We got to talk to devs the week right before live when nothing can really come of it and were basically told you players are not skilled and play the easy class so now if you want to heal well you have to be a bad*** and pull it off in combat, oh you want to do DPS gotta wait for your burst want to play defensively ok gotta basically spam shields every 3 seconds lest a simple stun leaves you as dogmeat. Or should I say DK meat.

What ticks off all the players ZOS is instead of waiting for when you could bring real change and help the weak parts of the class. You instead chose to weaken us and not give us any kind of return. You took away our few strengths but do not shore up our plenty weaknesses.

Rva_Kun

Shield change gave me cancer. Time to put sorc on the side and play NB kappa.

cpuScientist

Rva_Kun wrote: »

Shield change gave me cancer. Time to put sorc on the side and play NB kappa.

I was honestly considering it. Well going to my Templar. With which I pull great DPS and heals and mitigation and utility.

But I got my sorc to.max crafting got him everything. I will not just abandon him NOPE. Sorc sorc SORC. Nerf me SORC SORC SORC.

I will defiantly play sorc and not get invited to trials. I wil play sorc and be a liability in group PvP. I will play sorc and struggle immensely in VMA. I will play sorc and do horrid DPS. I will splay sorc and have near useless skill trees. I will play sorc and cry myself to sleep.

I WILL PLAY SORC!!!!!

Rva_Kun

cpuScientist wrote: »

Rva_Kun wrote: »

Shield change gave me cancer. Time to put sorc on the side and play NB kappa.

I was honestly considering it. Well going to my Templar. With which I pull great DPS and heals and mitigation and utility.

But I got my sorc to.max crafting got him everything. I will not just abandon him NOPE. Sorc sorc SORC. Nerf me SORC SORC SORC.

I will defiantly play sorc and not get invited to trials. I wil play sorc and be a liability in group PvP. I will play sorc and struggle immensely in VMA. I will play sorc and do horrid DPS. I will splay sorc and have near useless skill trees. I will play sorc and cry myself to sleep.

I WILL PLAY SORC!!!!!

You do that lol I'm gonna play my NB and just spank people