Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers

Grao

Dreyloch wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Seriously? Sorcs shields are even more OP now with the extra psychical damage mitigation from shield stacking the new DB annulment buff. I am sure the Sorcs 40k magicka from not having to run the impenetrable trait in PvP (due to shields not being able to be crittable; which is ridiculously OP) will be fine with the extra shield recasts. And don't even get me started on PvE; that is what healers are for. Besides, how many sorcs while engaged in combat in PvP only reapply shields every 6+ seconds LOL... If you are answered you do, then your class is OP. @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_Finn

aLi3nZ wrote: »

It will be interesting if some of the elites can sustain their 20k sheilds with their harness Magika and hardened Ward stacking with these changes. I just look at the sheild which is the same as their health bar on live and as a Magika player I won't even bother trying to take them out.

The big problem is with PVE

i am a pve'er, pvp does not intrest me much, but im still getting my builds trashed because pvp'ers whine.

There are hundreds of ways to fix the 'balancing' problems, and i use the term 'problem' lightly, as this is a class based mmo, and classes are not supposed to be reskins of the same thing, some classes are better at one role, while others are better at other roles, this war to make the classes perfectly balanced is disgusting to me, but i digress

there are hundreds of ways to fix these problems so that the balances will not effect players in PVE, but for some reason, ZOS seems to not be doing them.

Shield stacking, pretty simple fix is to only allow one shield to be active at a time, problem solved

But nerfing the duration? to barely a fraction of what it was before?

im disgusted, both with the devs and the people continually trying to justify it. There is no justification, pve is simply to big a part of the game for the pvp'ers to be the only ones that get their 'balancing' ways.

Where there was once hope for the potential of this game as a mmo, there is only rage and indignation

That is your problem, you don't PvP. You don't get blamed if you die due to shield stacking in PvE (you have healers to blame if you die in PvE)

What you don't seem to understand or care about is that reducing the duration of Ward affects Sorcerer DPS, not just survivability in PvE. So no, we dying is not the healers fault.

A simple explanation of the problem, Sorcerers have currently the lowest Magika and Stamina DPS among all the classes and to remain even slightly close to competitive, we are forced to spend no points in Health Attribute and invest all in Magika. That increases out damage and at least narrows the difference between our DPS and the DPS other classes are able to output.

We are only able to survive this play style though, because refreshing Ward every 20 seconds isn't too taxing on our mana pool. With the duration reduction to 6 seconds though, that play style is impossible. Simple as that. Why is that a problem? Because the class is not getting a damage buff to compensate for this considerable loss. That is our complain. This nerf is very significant for PvE. I understand shield stacking is bad in PvP and I am fine with them nerfing Ward and the other shields as long as ZoS actually balances the damage we will be losing by either severely nerfing the other classes DPS or increasing Sorcerer's DPS.

Bolded part there is totally untrue and it's the same if you want to be a DPS stam DK, or magicka DK, or Stam NB etc etc. To get the most DPS of any class you have to go with little to no health. This is the same with PvE. We ALL need the biggest stam and magicka pools we can get away with unless your the tank.

Edit: forgot to mention if your talking about PvE? OMFG, you get the FULL benefit of a damage shield as it is. Any and all damage shields in PvP are effectively cut in 1/2 because of battle spirit!! BTW, I do have a VR16 sorc and my main is a DK. I kill way more ppl in PvP with my sorc , have better survivability, ease of escape...Since TG came out many DK's dropped that toon altogther and started other classes. PvP melee DK is a joke right now, and they are nerfing wrecking blow in DB too. (which personally I just didn't like 2H abilites. But I digress.

Let me pose this question. What if they (ZoS) increased the shield time to 10 or 12 seconds. But made them full effect for PvP? I could live with that. I also want to say I'm not trying to shout at you etc. Just think your a little off in this particular post.

But the results you get from doing this with the other classes is higher then what you get as a sorcerer. That is beside the point though for sorcerers will no longer be able to do so as their survival skill was reduced to a third of its original duration with this patch while other classes had theirs left quite untouched. Ward was not made stronger in any way, its cost was not reduced and yet its duration was reduced by 70%... 70%, that is the number to keep in mind.

And yes, I was talking about PvE, not PvP. I understand sorcerers are very powerful in PvP, the shield stacking allows them to survive well and a combination of Frags + curse and our Execution does so much burst damage it may actually kill someone almost instantly. Unfortunately none of that power translates to PvE, our sustain DPS is bellow average, actually it is the lowest of all magika builds. The cut in the shield duration will lower that already low DPS considerably not only because you have to activate the skill three times more which does reduce the number of attacks you are able to output, but also because casting Ward over and over again will eat through anyone's mana pool quite fast.

I don't know what ZoS can do to fix the problem of balancing both PvE and PvP, all I know is that in this attempt, they have utterly failed. Well, actually, there are many ways of fixing the problems with sorcerers and the umbalance between PvE and PvP, if only they bother reading the now 17 pages of posts.

Mettaricana

I vote we remove entire daedric summoning line in favor of another elemental line like ice or even alteration. Since pets are a waste and pointless beyond thought.

Atleast ice we can freeze weapons for melee dmg and do phsyical dmg etc or a wind skill line made just for stam as its main and magicka as a support

Derra

Justice31st wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Seriously? Sorcs shields are even more OP now with the extra psychical damage mitigation from shield stacking the new DB annulment buff. I am sure the Sorcs 40k magicka from not having to run the impenetrable trait in PvP (due to shields not being able to be crittable; which is ridiculously OP) will be fine with the extra shield recasts. And don't even get me started on PvE; that is what healers are for. Besides, how many sorcs while engaged in combat in PvP only reapply shields every 6+ seconds LOL... If you are answered you do, then your class is OP. @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_Finn

Yes, nerf skills to the ground because of PvP and screw PvE. It sucks that ZoS shares your opinion on how to balance this game

Sorc shields should of been nerfed along time ago. It is the most OP and unbalanced skill in the game.

Congratulations. Sorcs shield got nerfed and now every class and spec will have shields of almost the same potency.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Mettaricana wrote: »

I vote we remove entire daedric summoning line in favor of another elemental line like ice or even alteration. Since pets are a waste and pointless beyond thought.

Atleast ice we can freeze weapons for melee dmg and do phsyical dmg etc or a wind skill line made just for stam as its main and magicka as a support

i miss the lol button

Dyride

In other news, anyone that still expected to use Power Surge or Critical Surge in PVP is in for a rude surprise when everyone has 3500 Impen (>100% Crit damage resist) after getting tagged with Rapid Regen/Healing springs:

Minalan

Dyride wrote: »

In other news, anyone that still expected to use Power Surge or Critical Surge in PVP is in for a rude surprise when everyone has 3500 Impen (>100% Crit damage resist) after getting tagged with Rapid Regen/Healing springs:

OMG hahahahaha! No proc heals for sorcs now.

Seriously though, that is a nice set bonus.

RoyJade

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

You missed the portion of the patch notes where you introduce something for stamina sorc.

Yeah I'm thinking we might have missed a post or reply somewhere about it? Could we get linked to an update if so? @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel

The team was mainly focusing on making some improvements to the item sets this go around, but are looking at making some additional adjustments for Sorcerers (even stam sorcs) in a future PTS incremental.

Hope is still here !
Not too much (because I know Zenimax), but a little.

Brrrofski

Grao wrote: »

Brrrofski wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Absorption Field - It would be interesting to have this spell's heal correlate to how much damage it prevents, thus justifying the name.

Suppression Field - This should be renamed and if the damage it does correlates to the damage it prevents, it would be very interesting.

Bound Armor: This ability and its morphs no longer permanently change your appearance when they are toggled on; instead, they now only display a brief visual effect when toggled on.

Instead of removing the visual, you could have made bound armor create a ghostly armor or maybe chest plate, bound aegis could make a ghostly shield and bound armaments could give the equipped weapon a special visual. It would be easier to keep track of the spell being active then.

Conjured Ward: Reduced the duration of this ability and the Hardened Ward morph to 6 seconds from 20 seconds.
Empowered Ward (Conjured Ward morph): Reduced the duration of this morph to 8 seconds from 20 seconds.

That you are reducing the duration of a shield to less than a third of its original duration without changing its cost or buffing its power or giving it additional properties is ridiculous.

Expert Summoner: Redesigned this passive ability so it now grants you 4/8% more maximum health whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.
This passive ability’s old bonuses are now baseline effects for your pets.

And still this passive only affects three abilities of this spell tree. Why doesn't bound armor and ward count as summons if they are in the summoning tree?

Thundering Presence (Lightning Form morph):
Renamed this morph to Hurricane.
Redesigned this morph so it now increases the size and damage of the periodic effect the longer it is active, increasing up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Shock Damage.

Nice, now make the other morph the exact same but for magika users and I will be happy about this. Movement speed increase is really not that useful when we have better spells for that.

Annulment: Reduced the duration of this ability and its morphs to 6 seconds from 20 seconds. In addition, this ability and its morphs now absorb all damage instead of just spell damage.
Note: The Harness Magicka morph will continue to return Magicka only when spell damage is absorbed as a morph effect.

Well, at least you gave this ability some additional power to compensate the heavy nerf to its duration. Why is it that Ward is not getting some buff to compensate its nerf again?

Thaumaturge: Fixed an issue where this Champion ability was increasing the damage of various non-damage over time effects, such as Daedric Curse or Magicka Detonation.
Known Issue: Currently, Thaumaturge is still increasing the tooltip values of those abilities. This will be fixed in a future PTS patch.

Now, I know this is supposedly a bug, but yay, more nerfs to our DPS! Woot. Interesting thing is, you always knew this sorcerer abilities were activating this buff, we reported this when the champion system first came out! We were told that because this ability did take time to detonate it was counted as a DoT... Apparently you guys are going back on that, cool... Stealthy nerfs - Love those


MEANWHILE, THE USELESS STUFF

Rebate (Passive) - Still only affects 3 abilities out of 6 in the tree
Expert Summoner - Wasn't Great, now it is useless, only works for pet builds.

Dark Exchange - Seriously, when are you guys going to buff this? >.>
Daedric Mines - Doesn't even belong in the Tree it is on. It is that bad it is on the wrong section >.> (It summons Daedric Mines and you have a spell tree called Daedric Summoning. Guess where this ability belongs!)
Persistence (Passive) - If only we used the very few abilities affected by this passive.

Overload - Ok, I know this ult is not useless, but I am putting it here cause I am not sure if ZoS ever bothered to fix the bug that keeps getting this spell stuck in heavy attack mode.

Lighting Form - Cool ,you guys finally realized we want to use this as DPS increase, not as a shield... Now do the same for Magika sorcery. Speed buff has nothing on damage and range increase.

Boundless storm is extremely useful with the speed buff. When a tank loses a boss, or half a dozen adds rush you, or you lose range on the healer, it lets you reposition quickly in a fight. It lasts about as long as you need it to.

I am sorry, mostly what I am hearing in your post is "The speed buff is useful when you make mistakes". I think spells should be useful even if you don't make mistakes. There are better spells that give speed buffs, namely Rapid Maneuver.

The speed buff is ALL a stam sorc has going for it. If they take it away it's dead. Every stam sorc will still use Boundless storm instead of hurricane.

Also, why use half a stam bar on a sorc for a speed buff that you lose when engaging in combat?

They ruined thundering presence. Nobody used it anyway, but it's even less desirable now.

If you are talking about PvP I understand what you are saying, but again. I was discussing PvE.

If you were talking about PvE I have to ask you... Why do you need the speed buff? Whenever speed buffs are needed in the raid one or two people carry Maneuver in their bar and use it to benefit the entire raid... So.... No real need for a speed buff in PvE. On the other hand sorcerer sustained DPS really sucks... We could really use more DPS.

I'm talking about pvp. I understand a lot of people don't, but there are a lot who do. This skill is invaluable to stam sorcs and important for magica sorcs who pvp too. Mobility is a signature of the class.

Thelon

Mettaricana wrote: »

pets are a waste and pointless beyond thought.

That's, like, your opinion, man

bloodenragedb14_ESO

RoyJade wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Tyrannitar wrote: »

Erock25 wrote: »

You missed the portion of the patch notes where you introduce something for stamina sorc.

Yeah I'm thinking we might have missed a post or reply somewhere about it? Could we get linked to an update if so? @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel

The team was mainly focusing on making some improvements to the item sets this go around, but are looking at making some additional adjustments for Sorcerers (even stam sorcs) in a future PTS incremental.

Hope is still here !
Not too much (because I know Zenimax), but a little.

ill remain cynical until given cause to not be

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Mettaricana wrote: »

pets are a waste and pointless beyond thought.

just because you do not use them does not mean others do not

a big appeal for me in the TES world is the ability to summon

its both a rp thing and a playstyle thing for me

they are not useless, but they need more support from the game system, a little tweaking.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

pets are a waste and pointless beyond thought.

just because you do not use them does not mean others do not

a big appeal for me in the TES world is the ability to summon

its both a rp thing and a playstyle thing for me

they are not useless, but they need more support from the game system, a little tweaking.

Exactly, I loved playing a necromancer in the previous ones. Was so much fun.

Joy_Division

So I PvEd all the content in this game. Every dungeon. Every trial. Every questing zone. All of it. Somebody is going to have to explain to me how exactly reducing the duration of Hardened Ward to 6 seconds is crippling to PvE.

Seriously. I am having difficulty fathoming this notion.

If I am asked to DPS a pledge dungeon, I am not going to put hardened ward on my bar because I am in a group that includes a tank who draws away aggro and a healer whose primary function is to devote resources keeping me alive so I can burn down stuff quicker and more efficiently. Even in a group of average players, I do not feel the need to put hardened ward on my bar to survive. If the group isn't particularly very good, I make mental notes to myself to block more and limit the amount of danger I typically expose myself to - there are other things sorcs can do with their resources that devote slots, time, and magicka to casting damage shields. If that still doesn't work and the healer is just BAD, then I simply put healing ward on my bar. If the tank is just BAD, well, then I would put hardened ward up ... but trash mobs in vet dungeons hit hard and will burn that down in less than 2 seconds, let alone 6. The only difference here is a sorc with a terrible tank will have to cast hardened ward just before an trash pull, rather than casting it after a completed trash pull and having last till the next one.

If I am asked to DPS a Trial, there is zero reason to ever put hardened ward on your bar. Trial bosses are not of the variety where a 20K shield will spare the group a wipe from the Mantikora or what not. There are real DPS thresholds to be overcome and a sorcerer wasting their resources and time to shielding themselves is wasting their healer's resources and opportunities to DPS the boss. I understand that a Sorc could theoretically cast hardened ward every 20 seconds or so in AA and survive an Axe hit Vs. the Mage, but this is an unnecessary precaution that grouping with tanks and healers is supposed to prevent in the first place. Besides, your hardened ward will *not* save you Vs. the Burn phases of these bosses and a sorc casting them instead of DPSing will contribute to a group wipe.

Does the rare sorc tank need a 20 second shield? Well, if they are drawing all the hard hitting aggro, the shield isn't lasting more than 6 seconds is it?

I suppose an argument could have been made a long long time ago at Launch when the veteran level questing difficulty was far greater and sorcs lacked tanks and heals. But again, their shields were not lasting more than 6 seconds against this difficult content and Quest zone difficulty has been far toned down since then.

The only instance I can wrap my brain around how this short duration shield change noticeably effects PvE is Veteran Maelstrom Arena which have enough pauses in between enemy action/attacks where a 20 second shield will conserve the sorcerer's magicka in that they won't have to constantly reapply it in-between these pauses.. But this is hardly crippling. As it is, players in this content are constantly getting beat on by hits anywhere from the 7K to 10K range and, again, that Hardened Ward is coming down quicker than 6 seconds.

*****

This does not mean I like the change to shields. I don't. But let's not get lazy communicating our dislike by pointing to a PvE nerf when it is difficult to see how a shorter duration is, at least from my perspective, more an inconvenience. If my - and ZoS's - viewpoint is incorrect or not appreciating something, then make a specific case to show how a 20 second shield is crucial for a sorcerer's performance in PvE.

My issue with the shield change is that it homogenizes what was the sorcerer's primary means of defense and in effect gives it to all classes and all builds (even stamina). I would have rather ZoS not done this and make it so each class and play-style has some different means of defending themselves, something that would lead to more dynamic and diverse gameplay. Plus this change does not address what most players had an issue with sorcerers: their ability to stack shields.

I would like to have seen sorcerers get an long duration ability akin to how wizards in folklore and other RPGs defending themselves that was more about subtlety and the "you can attack me but bad things will happen to you' variety. In fact, this is what Bound Armaments probably should have been, rather than a DPS toggle that, in fact, provides an imperceptible amount of defense.

FriedEggSandwich

.

Joy_Division wrote: »

So I PvEd all the content in this game. Every dungeon. Every trial. Every questing zone. All of it. Somebody is going to have to explain to me how exactly reducing the duration of Hardened Ward to 6 seconds is crippling to PvE.

Seriously. I am having difficulty fathoming this notion.

If I am asked to DPS a pledge dungeon, I am not going to put hardened ward on my bar because I am in a group that includes a tank who draws away aggro and a healer whose primary function is to devote resources keeping me alive so I can burn down stuff quicker and more efficiently. Even in a group of average players, I do not feel the need to put hardened ward on my bar to survive. If the group isn't particularly very good, I make mental notes to myself to block more and limit the amount of danger I typically expose myself to - there are other things sorcs can do with their resources that devote slots, time, and magicka to casting damage shields. If that still doesn't work and the healer is just BAD, then I simply put healing ward on my bar. If the tank is just BAD, well, then I would put hardened ward up ... but trash mobs in vet dungeons hit hard and will burn that down in less than 2 seconds, let alone 6. The only difference here is a sorc with a terrible tank will have to cast hardened ward just before an trash pull, rather than casting it after a completed trash pull and having last till the next one.

If I am asked to DPS a Trial, there is zero reason to ever put hardened ward on your bar. Trial bosses are not of the variety where a 20K shield will spare the group a wipe from the Mantikora or what not. There are real DPS thresholds to be overcome and a sorcerer wasting their resources and time to shielding themselves is wasting their healer's resources and opportunities to DPS the boss. I understand that a Sorc could theoretically cast hardened ward every 20 seconds or so in AA and survive an Axe hit Vs. the Mage, but this is an unnecessary precaution that grouping with tanks and healers is supposed to prevent in the first place. Besides, your hardened ward will *not* save you Vs. the Burn phases of these bosses and a sorc casting them instead of DPSing will contribute to a group wipe.

Does the rare sorc tank need a 20 second shield? Well, if they are drawing all the hard hitting aggro, the shield isn't lasting more than 6 seconds is it?

I suppose an argument could have been made a long long time ago at Launch when the veteran level questing difficulty was far greater and sorcs lacked tanks and heals. But again, their shields were not lasting more than 6 seconds against this difficult content and Quest zone difficulty has been far toned down since then.

The only instance I can wrap my brain around how this short duration shield change noticeably effects PvE is Veteran Maelstrom Arena which have enough pauses in between enemy action/attacks where a 20 second shield will conserve the sorcerer's magicka in that they won't have to constantly reapply it in-between these pauses.. But this is hardly crippling. As it is, players in this content are constantly getting beat on by hits anywhere from the 7K to 10K range and, again, that Hardened Ward is coming down quicker than 6 seconds.

*****

This does not mean I like the change to shields. I don't. But let's not get lazy communicating our dislike by pointing to a PvE nerf when it is difficult to see how a shorter duration is, at least from my perspective, more an inconvenience. If my - and ZoS's - viewpoint is incorrect or not appreciating something, then make a specific case to show how a 20 second shield is crucial for a sorcerer's performance in PvE.

My issue with the shield change is that it homogenizes what was the sorcerer's primary means of defense and in effect gives it to all classes and all builds (even stamina). I would have rather ZoS not done this and make it so each class and play-style has some different means of defending themselves, something that would lead to more dynamic and diverse gameplay. Plus this change does not address what most players had an issue with sorcerers: their ability to stack shields.

I would like to have seen sorcerers get an long duration ability akin to how wizards in folklore and other RPGs defending themselves that was more about subtlety and the "you can attack me but bad things will happen to you' variety. In fact, this is what Bound Armaments probably should have been, rather than a DPS toggle that, in fact, provides an imperceptible amount of defense.

I agree that it's more of an inconvenience than crippling. It might well make vMA more of a pain in the butt, or anything challenging that you decide to solo. It will just mean more button presses, stuff will still be possible. My issue is that I don't think it was necessary, seems like it wasn't given much thought; did sorcs need more obstacles to sustaining dps in pve? Not that dps is so important in solo content, but I believe my point is still valid. This change was more necessary for pvp than pve so it just seems like zos cba to differentiate the two.

PainfulFAFA

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

.

Joy_Division wrote: »

So I PvEd all the content in this game. Every dungeon. Every trial. Every questing zone. All of it. Somebody is going to have to explain to me how exactly reducing the duration of Hardened Ward to 6 seconds is crippling to PvE.

Seriously. I am having difficulty fathoming this notion.

If I am asked to DPS a pledge dungeon, I am not going to put hardened ward on my bar because I am in a group that includes a tank who draws away aggro and a healer whose primary function is to devote resources keeping me alive so I can burn down stuff quicker and more efficiently. Even in a group of average players, I do not feel the need to put hardened ward on my bar to survive. If the group isn't particularly very good, I make mental notes to myself to block more and limit the amount of danger I typically expose myself to - there are other things sorcs can do with their resources that devote slots, time, and magicka to casting damage shields. If that still doesn't work and the healer is just BAD, then I simply put healing ward on my bar. If the tank is just BAD, well, then I would put hardened ward up ... but trash mobs in vet dungeons hit hard and will burn that down in less than 2 seconds, let alone 6. The only difference here is a sorc with a terrible tank will have to cast hardened ward just before an trash pull, rather than casting it after a completed trash pull and having last till the next one.

If I am asked to DPS a Trial, there is zero reason to ever put hardened ward on your bar. Trial bosses are not of the variety where a 20K shield will spare the group a wipe from the Mantikora or what not. There are real DPS thresholds to be overcome and a sorcerer wasting their resources and time to shielding themselves is wasting their healer's resources and opportunities to DPS the boss. I understand that a Sorc could theoretically cast hardened ward every 20 seconds or so in AA and survive an Axe hit Vs. the Mage, but this is an unnecessary precaution that grouping with tanks and healers is supposed to prevent in the first place. Besides, your hardened ward will *not* save you Vs. the Burn phases of these bosses and a sorc casting them instead of DPSing will contribute to a group wipe.

Does the rare sorc tank need a 20 second shield? Well, if they are drawing all the hard hitting aggro, the shield isn't lasting more than 6 seconds is it?

I suppose an argument could have been made a long long time ago at Launch when the veteran level questing difficulty was far greater and sorcs lacked tanks and heals. But again, their shields were not lasting more than 6 seconds against this difficult content and Quest zone difficulty has been far toned down since then.

The only instance I can wrap my brain around how this short duration shield change noticeably effects PvE is Veteran Maelstrom Arena which have enough pauses in between enemy action/attacks where a 20 second shield will conserve the sorcerer's magicka in that they won't have to constantly reapply it in-between these pauses.. But this is hardly crippling. As it is, players in this content are constantly getting beat on by hits anywhere from the 7K to 10K range and, again, that Hardened Ward is coming down quicker than 6 seconds.

*****

This does not mean I like the change to shields. I don't. But let's not get lazy communicating our dislike by pointing to a PvE nerf when it is difficult to see how a shorter duration is, at least from my perspective, more an inconvenience. If my - and ZoS's - viewpoint is incorrect or not appreciating something, then make a specific case to show how a 20 second shield is crucial for a sorcerer's performance in PvE.

My issue with the shield change is that it homogenizes what was the sorcerer's primary means of defense and in effect gives it to all classes and all builds (even stamina). I would have rather ZoS not done this and make it so each class and play-style has some different means of defending themselves, something that would lead to more dynamic and diverse gameplay. Plus this change does not address what most players had an issue with sorcerers: their ability to stack shields.

I would like to have seen sorcerers get an long duration ability akin to how wizards in folklore and other RPGs defending themselves that was more about subtlety and the "you can attack me but bad things will happen to you' variety. In fact, this is what Bound Armaments probably should have been, rather than a DPS toggle that, in fact, provides an imperceptible amount of defense.

I agree that it's more of an inconvenience than crippling. It might well make vMA more of a pain in the butt, or anything challenging that you decide to solo. It will just mean more button presses, stuff will still be possible. My issue is that I don't think it was necessary, seems like it wasn't given much thought; did sorcs need more obstacles to sustaining dps in pve? Not that dps is so important in solo content, but I believe my point is still valid. This change was more necessary for pvp than pve so it just seems like zos cba to differentiate the two.

Sorry but how does shields sustain a dpser? As far as i know, thats a heals job. Healers throws shards, Orbs, or Ele D to help everyone out. Shields can be replaced for bound aegis/magelight or something for extra magicka/crit.
I absolutely think shields duration nerf was necessary. You got magicka sorcs soloing, trials, dungeons, molag bal, and easing thru vMA like nothing 500k+ scores.
If i can do vMA on a stam sorc, these mag Sorcs can too. This means more button presses? That another way of saying needs more skill.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

pets are a waste and pointless beyond thought.

just because you do not use them does not mean others do not

a big appeal for me in the TES world is the ability to summon

its both a rp thing and a playstyle thing for me

they are not useless, but they need more support from the game system, a little tweaking.

Exactly, I loved playing a necromancer in the previous ones. Was so much fun.

that brings up another point i would love to see addressed in future updates

I WANT TO SUMMON UNDEAD

being a necromancer, in roleplay and just general gameing is fun, its truly a shame it has not already been included

dodgehopper_ESO

Grao wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Seriously? Sorcs shields are even more OP now with the extra psychical damage mitigation from shield stacking the new DB annulment buff. I am sure the Sorcs 40k magicka from not having to run the impenetrable trait in PvP (due to shields not being able to be crittable; which is ridiculously OP) will be fine with the extra shield recasts. And don't even get me started on PvE; that is what healers are for. Besides, how many sorcs while engaged in combat in PvP only reapply shields every 6+ seconds LOL... If you are answered you do, then your class is OP. @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel @ZOS_Finn

aLi3nZ wrote: »

It will be interesting if some of the elites can sustain their 20k sheilds with their harness Magika and hardened Ward stacking with these changes. I just look at the sheild which is the same as their health bar on live and as a Magika player I won't even bother trying to take them out.

The big problem is with PVE

i am a pve'er, pvp does not intrest me much, but im still getting my builds trashed because pvp'ers whine.

There are hundreds of ways to fix the 'balancing' problems, and i use the term 'problem' lightly, as this is a class based mmo, and classes are not supposed to be reskins of the same thing, some classes are better at one role, while others are better at other roles, this war to make the classes perfectly balanced is disgusting to me, but i digress

there are hundreds of ways to fix these problems so that the balances will not effect players in PVE, but for some reason, ZOS seems to not be doing them.

Shield stacking, pretty simple fix is to only allow one shield to be active at a time, problem solved

But nerfing the duration? to barely a fraction of what it was before?

im disgusted, both with the devs and the people continually trying to justify it. There is no justification, pve is simply to big a part of the game for the pvp'ers to be the only ones that get their 'balancing' ways.

Where there was once hope for the potential of this game as a mmo, there is only rage and indignation

That is your problem, you don't PvP. You don't get blamed if you die due to shield stacking in PvE (you have healers to blame if you die in PvE)

What you don't seem to understand or care about is that reducing the duration of Ward affects Sorcerer DPS, not just survivability in PvE. So no, we dying is not the healers fault.

A simple explanation of the problem, Sorcerers have currently the lowest Magika and Stamina DPS among all the classes and to remain even slightly close to competitive, we are forced to spend no points in Health Attribute and invest all in Magika. That increases out damage and at least narrows the difference between our DPS and the DPS other classes are able to output.

We are only able to survive this play style though, because refreshing Ward every 20 seconds isn't too taxing on our mana pool. With the duration reduction to 6 seconds though, that play style is impossible. Simple as that. Why is that a problem? Because the class is not getting a damage buff to compensate for this considerable loss. That is our complain. This nerf is very significant for PvE. I understand shield stacking is bad in PvP and I am fine with them nerfing Ward and the other shields as long as ZoS actually balances the damage we will be losing by either severely nerfing the other classes DPS or increasing Sorcerer's DPS.

Bolded part there is totally untrue and it's the same if you want to be a DPS stam DK, or magicka DK, or Stam NB etc etc. To get the most DPS of any class you have to go with little to no health. This is the same with PvE. We ALL need the biggest stam and magicka pools we can get away with unless your the tank.

Edit: forgot to mention if your talking about PvE? OMFG, you get the FULL benefit of a damage shield as it is. Any and all damage shields in PvP are effectively cut in 1/2 because of battle spirit!! BTW, I do have a VR16 sorc and my main is a DK. I kill way more ppl in PvP with my sorc , have better survivability, ease of escape...Since TG came out many DK's dropped that toon altogther and started other classes. PvP melee DK is a joke right now, and they are nerfing wrecking blow in DB too. (which personally I just didn't like 2H abilites. But I digress.

Let me pose this question. What if they (ZoS) increased the shield time to 10 or 12 seconds. But made them full effect for PvP? I could live with that. I also want to say I'm not trying to shout at you etc. Just think your a little off in this particular post.

But the results you get from doing this with the other classes is higher then what you get as a sorcerer. That is beside the point though for sorcerers will no longer be able to do so as their survival skill was reduced to a third of its original duration with this patch while other classes had theirs left quite untouched. Ward was not made stronger in any way, its cost was not reduced and yet its duration was reduced by 70%... 70%, that is the number to keep in mind.

And yes, I was talking about PvE, not PvP. I understand sorcerers are very powerful in PvP, the shield stacking allows them to survive well and a combination of Frags + curse and our Execution does so much burst damage it may actually kill someone almost instantly. Unfortunately none of that power translates to PvE, our sustain DPS is bellow average, actually it is the lowest of all magika builds. The cut in the shield duration will lower that already low DPS considerably not only because you have to activate the skill three times more which does reduce the number of attacks you are able to output, but also because casting Ward over and over again will eat through anyone's mana pool quite fast.

I don't know what ZoS can do to fix the problem of balancing both PvE and PvP, all I know is that in this attempt, they have utterly failed. Well, actually, there are many ways of fixing the problems with sorcerers and the umbalance between PvE and PvP, if only they bother reading the now 17 pages of posts.

The Ward was crap for Stam Sorcs anyway, so you're only speaking to half of sorcs. I'd personally rather see them improve Surge or exchange - which would benefit both stam and mag sorcs - just my opinion.

FriedEggSandwich

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

.

Joy_Division wrote: »

So I PvEd all the content in this game. Every dungeon. Every trial. Every questing zone. All of it. Somebody is going to have to explain to me how exactly reducing the duration of Hardened Ward to 6 seconds is crippling to PvE.

Seriously. I am having difficulty fathoming this notion.

If I am asked to DPS a pledge dungeon, I am not going to put hardened ward on my bar because I am in a group that includes a tank who draws away aggro and a healer whose primary function is to devote resources keeping me alive so I can burn down stuff quicker and more efficiently. Even in a group of average players, I do not feel the need to put hardened ward on my bar to survive. If the group isn't particularly very good, I make mental notes to myself to block more and limit the amount of danger I typically expose myself to - there are other things sorcs can do with their resources that devote slots, time, and magicka to casting damage shields. If that still doesn't work and the healer is just BAD, then I simply put healing ward on my bar. If the tank is just BAD, well, then I would put hardened ward up ... but trash mobs in vet dungeons hit hard and will burn that down in less than 2 seconds, let alone 6. The only difference here is a sorc with a terrible tank will have to cast hardened ward just before an trash pull, rather than casting it after a completed trash pull and having last till the next one.

If I am asked to DPS a Trial, there is zero reason to ever put hardened ward on your bar. Trial bosses are not of the variety where a 20K shield will spare the group a wipe from the Mantikora or what not. There are real DPS thresholds to be overcome and a sorcerer wasting their resources and time to shielding themselves is wasting their healer's resources and opportunities to DPS the boss. I understand that a Sorc could theoretically cast hardened ward every 20 seconds or so in AA and survive an Axe hit Vs. the Mage, but this is an unnecessary precaution that grouping with tanks and healers is supposed to prevent in the first place. Besides, your hardened ward will *not* save you Vs. the Burn phases of these bosses and a sorc casting them instead of DPSing will contribute to a group wipe.

Does the rare sorc tank need a 20 second shield? Well, if they are drawing all the hard hitting aggro, the shield isn't lasting more than 6 seconds is it?

I suppose an argument could have been made a long long time ago at Launch when the veteran level questing difficulty was far greater and sorcs lacked tanks and heals. But again, their shields were not lasting more than 6 seconds against this difficult content and Quest zone difficulty has been far toned down since then.

The only instance I can wrap my brain around how this short duration shield change noticeably effects PvE is Veteran Maelstrom Arena which have enough pauses in between enemy action/attacks where a 20 second shield will conserve the sorcerer's magicka in that they won't have to constantly reapply it in-between these pauses.. But this is hardly crippling. As it is, players in this content are constantly getting beat on by hits anywhere from the 7K to 10K range and, again, that Hardened Ward is coming down quicker than 6 seconds.

*****

This does not mean I like the change to shields. I don't. But let's not get lazy communicating our dislike by pointing to a PvE nerf when it is difficult to see how a shorter duration is, at least from my perspective, more an inconvenience. If my - and ZoS's - viewpoint is incorrect or not appreciating something, then make a specific case to show how a 20 second shield is crucial for a sorcerer's performance in PvE.

My issue with the shield change is that it homogenizes what was the sorcerer's primary means of defense and in effect gives it to all classes and all builds (even stamina). I would have rather ZoS not done this and make it so each class and play-style has some different means of defending themselves, something that would lead to more dynamic and diverse gameplay. Plus this change does not address what most players had an issue with sorcerers: their ability to stack shields.

I would like to have seen sorcerers get an long duration ability akin to how wizards in folklore and other RPGs defending themselves that was more about subtlety and the "you can attack me but bad things will happen to you' variety. In fact, this is what Bound Armaments probably should have been, rather than a DPS toggle that, in fact, provides an imperceptible amount of defense.

I agree that it's more of an inconvenience than crippling. It might well make vMA more of a pain in the butt, or anything challenging that you decide to solo. It will just mean more button presses, stuff will still be possible. My issue is that I don't think it was necessary, seems like it wasn't given much thought; did sorcs need more obstacles to sustaining dps in pve? Not that dps is so important in solo content, but I believe my point is still valid. This change was more necessary for pvp than pve so it just seems like zos cba to differentiate the two.

Sorry but how does shields sustain a dpser? As far as i know, thats a heals job. Healers throws shards, Orbs, or Ele D to help everyone out. Shields can be replaced for bound aegis/magelight or something for extra magicka/crit.
I absolutely think shields duration nerf was necessary. You got magicka sorcs soloing, trials, dungeons, molag bal, and easing thru vMA like nothing 500k+ scores.
If i can do vMA on a stam sorc, these mag Sorcs can too. This means more button presses? That another way of saying needs more skill.

If you read my post again you will see I was talking about solo content and I acknowledged that point was tenuous anyway. To explain further; more time casting ward(s) = less time dpsing. DKs can solo dungeons and trials too; nerf DKs tankiness! I only have room for one ward in vMA anyway cos my bars are full of toggles. The sorc that solo'd molag bal was emp fyi. I'm not raging against the shield nerf, I just think it was a bit unnecessary in pve is all. I thought I made that clear.

Lucky28

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

.

Joy_Division wrote: »

So I PvEd all the content in this game. Every dungeon. Every trial. Every questing zone. All of it. Somebody is going to have to explain to me how exactly reducing the duration of Hardened Ward to 6 seconds is crippling to PvE.

Seriously. I am having difficulty fathoming this notion.

If I am asked to DPS a pledge dungeon, I am not going to put hardened ward on my bar because I am in a group that includes a tank who draws away aggro and a healer whose primary function is to devote resources keeping me alive so I can burn down stuff quicker and more efficiently. Even in a group of average players, I do not feel the need to put hardened ward on my bar to survive. If the group isn't particularly very good, I make mental notes to myself to block more and limit the amount of danger I typically expose myself to - there are other things sorcs can do with their resources that devote slots, time, and magicka to casting damage shields. If that still doesn't work and the healer is just BAD, then I simply put healing ward on my bar. If the tank is just BAD, well, then I would put hardened ward up ... but trash mobs in vet dungeons hit hard and will burn that down in less than 2 seconds, let alone 6. The only difference here is a sorc with a terrible tank will have to cast hardened ward just before an trash pull, rather than casting it after a completed trash pull and having last till the next one.

If I am asked to DPS a Trial, there is zero reason to ever put hardened ward on your bar. Trial bosses are not of the variety where a 20K shield will spare the group a wipe from the Mantikora or what not. There are real DPS thresholds to be overcome and a sorcerer wasting their resources and time to shielding themselves is wasting their healer's resources and opportunities to DPS the boss. I understand that a Sorc could theoretically cast hardened ward every 20 seconds or so in AA and survive an Axe hit Vs. the Mage, but this is an unnecessary precaution that grouping with tanks and healers is supposed to prevent in the first place. Besides, your hardened ward will *not* save you Vs. the Burn phases of these bosses and a sorc casting them instead of DPSing will contribute to a group wipe.

Does the rare sorc tank need a 20 second shield? Well, if they are drawing all the hard hitting aggro, the shield isn't lasting more than 6 seconds is it?

I suppose an argument could have been made a long long time ago at Launch when the veteran level questing difficulty was far greater and sorcs lacked tanks and heals. But again, their shields were not lasting more than 6 seconds against this difficult content and Quest zone difficulty has been far toned down since then.

The only instance I can wrap my brain around how this short duration shield change noticeably effects PvE is Veteran Maelstrom Arena which have enough pauses in between enemy action/attacks where a 20 second shield will conserve the sorcerer's magicka in that they won't have to constantly reapply it in-between these pauses.. But this is hardly crippling. As it is, players in this content are constantly getting beat on by hits anywhere from the 7K to 10K range and, again, that Hardened Ward is coming down quicker than 6 seconds.

*****

This does not mean I like the change to shields. I don't. But let's not get lazy communicating our dislike by pointing to a PvE nerf when it is difficult to see how a shorter duration is, at least from my perspective, more an inconvenience. If my - and ZoS's - viewpoint is incorrect or not appreciating something, then make a specific case to show how a 20 second shield is crucial for a sorcerer's performance in PvE.

My issue with the shield change is that it homogenizes what was the sorcerer's primary means of defense and in effect gives it to all classes and all builds (even stamina). I would have rather ZoS not done this and make it so each class and play-style has some different means of defending themselves, something that would lead to more dynamic and diverse gameplay. Plus this change does not address what most players had an issue with sorcerers: their ability to stack shields.

I would like to have seen sorcerers get an long duration ability akin to how wizards in folklore and other RPGs defending themselves that was more about subtlety and the "you can attack me but bad things will happen to you' variety. In fact, this is what Bound Armaments probably should have been, rather than a DPS toggle that, in fact, provides an imperceptible amount of defense.

I agree that it's more of an inconvenience than crippling. It might well make vMA more of a pain in the butt, or anything challenging that you decide to solo. It will just mean more button presses, stuff will still be possible. My issue is that I don't think it was necessary, seems like it wasn't given much thought; did sorcs need more obstacles to sustaining dps in pve? Not that dps is so important in solo content, but I believe my point is still valid. This change was more necessary for pvp than pve so it just seems like zos cba to differentiate the two.

It wasn't necessary for either PvP or PvE it's a completely worthless change all around. Literally the only thing this change accomplishes is being an annoyance and that is it. it does not change anything in regards effectiveness in combat with the sorc, it doesn't nerf the sorc it doesn't nerf shield stacking. it is just an annoying addition to gameplay and therefor a poor addition to the game.

Khaos_Bane

Lucky28 wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

.

Joy_Division wrote: »

So I PvEd all the content in this game. Every dungeon. Every trial. Every questing zone. All of it. Somebody is going to have to explain to me how exactly reducing the duration of Hardened Ward to 6 seconds is crippling to PvE.

Seriously. I am having difficulty fathoming this notion.

If I am asked to DPS a pledge dungeon, I am not going to put hardened ward on my bar because I am in a group that includes a tank who draws away aggro and a healer whose primary function is to devote resources keeping me alive so I can burn down stuff quicker and more efficiently. Even in a group of average players, I do not feel the need to put hardened ward on my bar to survive. If the group isn't particularly very good, I make mental notes to myself to block more and limit the amount of danger I typically expose myself to - there are other things sorcs can do with their resources that devote slots, time, and magicka to casting damage shields. If that still doesn't work and the healer is just BAD, then I simply put healing ward on my bar. If the tank is just BAD, well, then I would put hardened ward up ... but trash mobs in vet dungeons hit hard and will burn that down in less than 2 seconds, let alone 6. The only difference here is a sorc with a terrible tank will have to cast hardened ward just before an trash pull, rather than casting it after a completed trash pull and having last till the next one.

If I am asked to DPS a Trial, there is zero reason to ever put hardened ward on your bar. Trial bosses are not of the variety where a 20K shield will spare the group a wipe from the Mantikora or what not. There are real DPS thresholds to be overcome and a sorcerer wasting their resources and time to shielding themselves is wasting their healer's resources and opportunities to DPS the boss. I understand that a Sorc could theoretically cast hardened ward every 20 seconds or so in AA and survive an Axe hit Vs. the Mage, but this is an unnecessary precaution that grouping with tanks and healers is supposed to prevent in the first place. Besides, your hardened ward will *not* save you Vs. the Burn phases of these bosses and a sorc casting them instead of DPSing will contribute to a group wipe.

Does the rare sorc tank need a 20 second shield? Well, if they are drawing all the hard hitting aggro, the shield isn't lasting more than 6 seconds is it?

I suppose an argument could have been made a long long time ago at Launch when the veteran level questing difficulty was far greater and sorcs lacked tanks and heals. But again, their shields were not lasting more than 6 seconds against this difficult content and Quest zone difficulty has been far toned down since then.

The only instance I can wrap my brain around how this short duration shield change noticeably effects PvE is Veteran Maelstrom Arena which have enough pauses in between enemy action/attacks where a 20 second shield will conserve the sorcerer's magicka in that they won't have to constantly reapply it in-between these pauses.. But this is hardly crippling. As it is, players in this content are constantly getting beat on by hits anywhere from the 7K to 10K range and, again, that Hardened Ward is coming down quicker than 6 seconds.

*****

This does not mean I like the change to shields. I don't. But let's not get lazy communicating our dislike by pointing to a PvE nerf when it is difficult to see how a shorter duration is, at least from my perspective, more an inconvenience. If my - and ZoS's - viewpoint is incorrect or not appreciating something, then make a specific case to show how a 20 second shield is crucial for a sorcerer's performance in PvE.

My issue with the shield change is that it homogenizes what was the sorcerer's primary means of defense and in effect gives it to all classes and all builds (even stamina). I would have rather ZoS not done this and make it so each class and play-style has some different means of defending themselves, something that would lead to more dynamic and diverse gameplay. Plus this change does not address what most players had an issue with sorcerers: their ability to stack shields.

I would like to have seen sorcerers get an long duration ability akin to how wizards in folklore and other RPGs defending themselves that was more about subtlety and the "you can attack me but bad things will happen to you' variety. In fact, this is what Bound Armaments probably should have been, rather than a DPS toggle that, in fact, provides an imperceptible amount of defense.

I agree that it's more of an inconvenience than crippling. It might well make vMA more of a pain in the butt, or anything challenging that you decide to solo. It will just mean more button presses, stuff will still be possible. My issue is that I don't think it was necessary, seems like it wasn't given much thought; did sorcs need more obstacles to sustaining dps in pve? Not that dps is so important in solo content, but I believe my point is still valid. This change was more necessary for pvp than pve so it just seems like zos cba to differentiate the two.

It wasn't necessary for either PvP or PvE it's a completely worthless change all around. Literally the only thing this change accomplishes is being an annoyance and that is it. it does not change anything in regards effectiveness in combat with the sorc, it doesn't nerf the sorc it doesn't nerf shield stacking. it is just an annoying addition to gameplay and therefor a poor addition to the game.

If it doesn't change anything then put it back to what it was before and stop handing this skill to other STA and MAG classes. ZoS completely stripped this unique ability away from sorcs and gave them nothing but pet crap.

Grao

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

I vote we remove entire daedric summoning line in favor of another elemental line like ice or even alteration. Since pets are a waste and pointless beyond thought.

Atleast ice we can freeze weapons for melee dmg and do phsyical dmg etc or a wind skill line made just for stam as its main and magicka as a support

i miss the lol button

*giggles*

Lucky28

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

.

Joy_Division wrote: »

So I PvEd all the content in this game. Every dungeon. Every trial. Every questing zone. All of it. Somebody is going to have to explain to me how exactly reducing the duration of Hardened Ward to 6 seconds is crippling to PvE.

Seriously. I am having difficulty fathoming this notion.

If I am asked to DPS a pledge dungeon, I am not going to put hardened ward on my bar because I am in a group that includes a tank who draws away aggro and a healer whose primary function is to devote resources keeping me alive so I can burn down stuff quicker and more efficiently. Even in a group of average players, I do not feel the need to put hardened ward on my bar to survive. If the group isn't particularly very good, I make mental notes to myself to block more and limit the amount of danger I typically expose myself to - there are other things sorcs can do with their resources that devote slots, time, and magicka to casting damage shields. If that still doesn't work and the healer is just BAD, then I simply put healing ward on my bar. If the tank is just BAD, well, then I would put hardened ward up ... but trash mobs in vet dungeons hit hard and will burn that down in less than 2 seconds, let alone 6. The only difference here is a sorc with a terrible tank will have to cast hardened ward just before an trash pull, rather than casting it after a completed trash pull and having last till the next one.

If I am asked to DPS a Trial, there is zero reason to ever put hardened ward on your bar. Trial bosses are not of the variety where a 20K shield will spare the group a wipe from the Mantikora or what not. There are real DPS thresholds to be overcome and a sorcerer wasting their resources and time to shielding themselves is wasting their healer's resources and opportunities to DPS the boss. I understand that a Sorc could theoretically cast hardened ward every 20 seconds or so in AA and survive an Axe hit Vs. the Mage, but this is an unnecessary precaution that grouping with tanks and healers is supposed to prevent in the first place. Besides, your hardened ward will *not* save you Vs. the Burn phases of these bosses and a sorc casting them instead of DPSing will contribute to a group wipe.

Does the rare sorc tank need a 20 second shield? Well, if they are drawing all the hard hitting aggro, the shield isn't lasting more than 6 seconds is it?

I suppose an argument could have been made a long long time ago at Launch when the veteran level questing difficulty was far greater and sorcs lacked tanks and heals. But again, their shields were not lasting more than 6 seconds against this difficult content and Quest zone difficulty has been far toned down since then.

The only instance I can wrap my brain around how this short duration shield change noticeably effects PvE is Veteran Maelstrom Arena which have enough pauses in between enemy action/attacks where a 20 second shield will conserve the sorcerer's magicka in that they won't have to constantly reapply it in-between these pauses.. But this is hardly crippling. As it is, players in this content are constantly getting beat on by hits anywhere from the 7K to 10K range and, again, that Hardened Ward is coming down quicker than 6 seconds.

*****

This does not mean I like the change to shields. I don't. But let's not get lazy communicating our dislike by pointing to a PvE nerf when it is difficult to see how a shorter duration is, at least from my perspective, more an inconvenience. If my - and ZoS's - viewpoint is incorrect or not appreciating something, then make a specific case to show how a 20 second shield is crucial for a sorcerer's performance in PvE.

My issue with the shield change is that it homogenizes what was the sorcerer's primary means of defense and in effect gives it to all classes and all builds (even stamina). I would have rather ZoS not done this and make it so each class and play-style has some different means of defending themselves, something that would lead to more dynamic and diverse gameplay. Plus this change does not address what most players had an issue with sorcerers: their ability to stack shields.

I would like to have seen sorcerers get an long duration ability akin to how wizards in folklore and other RPGs defending themselves that was more about subtlety and the "you can attack me but bad things will happen to you' variety. In fact, this is what Bound Armaments probably should have been, rather than a DPS toggle that, in fact, provides an imperceptible amount of defense.

I agree that it's more of an inconvenience than crippling. It might well make vMA more of a pain in the butt, or anything challenging that you decide to solo. It will just mean more button presses, stuff will still be possible. My issue is that I don't think it was necessary, seems like it wasn't given much thought; did sorcs need more obstacles to sustaining dps in pve? Not that dps is so important in solo content, but I believe my point is still valid. This change was more necessary for pvp than pve so it just seems like zos cba to differentiate the two.

It wasn't necessary for either PvP or PvE it's a completely worthless change all around. Literally the only thing this change accomplishes is being an annoyance and that is it. it does not change anything in regards effectiveness in combat with the sorc, it doesn't nerf the sorc it doesn't nerf shield stacking. it is just an annoying addition to gameplay and therefor a poor addition to the game.

If it doesn't change anything then put it back to what it was before and stop handing this skill to other STA and MAG classes. ZoS completely stripped this unique ability away from sorcs and gave them nothing but pet crap.

i agree. the changes to shields need to be scrapped. i'm not defending them at all, they're bad changes.

Lucky28

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

.

Joy_Division wrote: »

So I PvEd all the content in this game. Every dungeon. Every trial. Every questing zone. All of it. Somebody is going to have to explain to me how exactly reducing the duration of Hardened Ward to 6 seconds is crippling to PvE.

Seriously. I am having difficulty fathoming this notion.

If I am asked to DPS a pledge dungeon, I am not going to put hardened ward on my bar because I am in a group that includes a tank who draws away aggro and a healer whose primary function is to devote resources keeping me alive so I can burn down stuff quicker and more efficiently. Even in a group of average players, I do not feel the need to put hardened ward on my bar to survive. If the group isn't particularly very good, I make mental notes to myself to block more and limit the amount of danger I typically expose myself to - there are other things sorcs can do with their resources that devote slots, time, and magicka to casting damage shields. If that still doesn't work and the healer is just BAD, then I simply put healing ward on my bar. If the tank is just BAD, well, then I would put hardened ward up ... but trash mobs in vet dungeons hit hard and will burn that down in less than 2 seconds, let alone 6. The only difference here is a sorc with a terrible tank will have to cast hardened ward just before an trash pull, rather than casting it after a completed trash pull and having last till the next one.

If I am asked to DPS a Trial, there is zero reason to ever put hardened ward on your bar. Trial bosses are not of the variety where a 20K shield will spare the group a wipe from the Mantikora or what not. There are real DPS thresholds to be overcome and a sorcerer wasting their resources and time to shielding themselves is wasting their healer's resources and opportunities to DPS the boss. I understand that a Sorc could theoretically cast hardened ward every 20 seconds or so in AA and survive an Axe hit Vs. the Mage, but this is an unnecessary precaution that grouping with tanks and healers is supposed to prevent in the first place. Besides, your hardened ward will *not* save you Vs. the Burn phases of these bosses and a sorc casting them instead of DPSing will contribute to a group wipe.

Does the rare sorc tank need a 20 second shield? Well, if they are drawing all the hard hitting aggro, the shield isn't lasting more than 6 seconds is it?

I suppose an argument could have been made a long long time ago at Launch when the veteran level questing difficulty was far greater and sorcs lacked tanks and heals. But again, their shields were not lasting more than 6 seconds against this difficult content and Quest zone difficulty has been far toned down since then.

The only instance I can wrap my brain around how this short duration shield change noticeably effects PvE is Veteran Maelstrom Arena which have enough pauses in between enemy action/attacks where a 20 second shield will conserve the sorcerer's magicka in that they won't have to constantly reapply it in-between these pauses.. But this is hardly crippling. As it is, players in this content are constantly getting beat on by hits anywhere from the 7K to 10K range and, again, that Hardened Ward is coming down quicker than 6 seconds.

*****

This does not mean I like the change to shields. I don't. But let's not get lazy communicating our dislike by pointing to a PvE nerf when it is difficult to see how a shorter duration is, at least from my perspective, more an inconvenience. If my - and ZoS's - viewpoint is incorrect or not appreciating something, then make a specific case to show how a 20 second shield is crucial for a sorcerer's performance in PvE.

My issue with the shield change is that it homogenizes what was the sorcerer's primary means of defense and in effect gives it to all classes and all builds (even stamina). I would have rather ZoS not done this and make it so each class and play-style has some different means of defending themselves, something that would lead to more dynamic and diverse gameplay. Plus this change does not address what most players had an issue with sorcerers: their ability to stack shields.

I would like to have seen sorcerers get an long duration ability akin to how wizards in folklore and other RPGs defending themselves that was more about subtlety and the "you can attack me but bad things will happen to you' variety. In fact, this is what Bound Armaments probably should have been, rather than a DPS toggle that, in fact, provides an imperceptible amount of defense.

I agree that it's more of an inconvenience than crippling. It might well make vMA more of a pain in the butt, or anything challenging that you decide to solo. It will just mean more button presses, stuff will still be possible. My issue is that I don't think it was necessary, seems like it wasn't given much thought; did sorcs need more obstacles to sustaining dps in pve? Not that dps is so important in solo content, but I believe my point is still valid. This change was more necessary for pvp than pve so it just seems like zos cba to differentiate the two.

Sorry but how does shields sustain a dpser? As far as i know, thats a heals job. Healers throws shards, Orbs, or Ele D to help everyone out. Shields can be replaced for bound aegis/magelight or something for extra magicka/crit.
I absolutely think shields duration nerf was necessary. You got magicka sorcs soloing, trials, dungeons, molag bal, and easing thru vMA like nothing 500k+ scores.
If i can do vMA on a stam sorc, these mag Sorcs can too. This means more button presses? That another way of saying needs more skill.

1. never seen or heard of a sorc soloing a trial or anyone soloing a trial. and if they did. it probably took hours and i would say they deserved it.
2. i can solo dungeons on Mag sorc, Mag NB and Mag DK. nerf all three?
3. Molag bal?. that was Methuselah one of the best players in the game with 1000+ CP (before cap) and Emp don't go saying that like just any sorc can do it at the drop of a hat.
4. buttom mashing does not equal skill.

Grao

Joy_Division wrote: »

So I PvEd all the content in this game. Every dungeon. Every trial. Every questing zone. All of it. Somebody is going to have to explain to me how exactly reducing the duration of Hardened Ward to 6 seconds is crippling to PvE.

Seriously. I am having difficulty fathoming this notion.

If I am asked to DPS a pledge dungeon, I am not going to put hardened ward on my bar because I am in a group that includes a tank who draws away aggro and a healer whose primary function is to devote resources keeping me alive so I can burn down stuff quicker and more efficiently. Even in a group of average players, I do not feel the need to put hardened ward on my bar to survive. If the group isn't particularly very good, I make mental notes to myself to block more and limit the amount of danger I typically expose myself to - there are other things sorcs can do with their resources that devote slots, time, and magicka to casting damage shields. If that still doesn't work and the healer is just BAD, then I simply put healing ward on my bar. If the tank is just BAD, well, then I would put hardened ward up ... but trash mobs in vet dungeons hit hard and will burn that down in less than 2 seconds, let alone 6. The only difference here is a sorc with a terrible tank will have to cast hardened ward just before an trash pull, rather than casting it after a completed trash pull and having last till the next one.

If I am asked to DPS a Trial, there is zero reason to ever put hardened ward on your bar. Trial bosses are not of the variety where a 20K shield will spare the group a wipe from the Mantikora or what not. There are real DPS thresholds to be overcome and a sorcerer wasting their resources and time to shielding themselves is wasting their healer's resources and opportunities to DPS the boss. I understand that a Sorc could theoretically cast hardened ward every 20 seconds or so in AA and survive an Axe hit Vs. the Mage, but this is an unnecessary precaution that grouping with tanks and healers is supposed to prevent in the first place. Besides, your hardened ward will *not* save you Vs. the Burn phases of these bosses and a sorc casting them instead of DPSing will contribute to a group wipe.

Does the rare sorc tank need a 20 second shield? Well, if they are drawing all the hard hitting aggro, the shield isn't lasting more than 6 seconds is it?

I suppose an argument could have been made a long long time ago at Launch when the veteran level questing difficulty was far greater and sorcs lacked tanks and heals. But again, their shields were not lasting more than 6 seconds against this difficult content and Quest zone difficulty has been far toned down since then.

The only instance I can wrap my brain around how this short duration shield change noticeably effects PvE is Veteran Maelstrom Arena which have enough pauses in between enemy action/attacks where a 20 second shield will conserve the sorcerer's magicka in that they won't have to constantly reapply it in-between these pauses.. But this is hardly crippling. As it is, players in this content are constantly getting beat on by hits anywhere from the 7K to 10K range and, again, that Hardened Ward is coming down quicker than 6 seconds.

*****

This does not mean I like the change to shields. I don't. But let's not get lazy communicating our dislike by pointing to a PvE nerf when it is difficult to see how a shorter duration is, at least from my perspective, more an inconvenience. If my - and ZoS's - viewpoint is incorrect or not appreciating something, then make a specific case to show how a 20 second shield is crucial for a sorcerer's performance in PvE.

My issue with the shield change is that it homogenizes what was the sorcerer's primary means of defense and in effect gives it to all classes and all builds (even stamina). I would have rather ZoS not done this and make it so each class and play-style has some different means of defending themselves, something that would lead to more dynamic and diverse gameplay. Plus this change does not address what most players had an issue with sorcerers: their ability to stack shields.

I would like to have seen sorcerers get an long duration ability akin to how wizards in folklore and other RPGs defending themselves that was more about subtlety and the "you can attack me but bad things will happen to you' variety. In fact, this is what Bound Armaments probably should have been, rather than a DPS toggle that, in fact, provides an imperceptible amount of defense.

Alright Joy, a few questions. How much Health you have and how does your DPS compares with the other Magika DPS on your sorcerer?

When I stopped playing what sorcerers were forced to do to remain competitive in the DPS department was remove all attribute points from health in favor of increasing our Magika pool and thus the DPS. Maybe that has changed, I am not sure since I haven't played the latest extension, alas, from the general answers I've been reading on the forum so far, it hasn't changed at all.

And if that is the case as it seems to be, to remain competitive in DPS you end up with absurdly low health, relying heavily on Ward to stay alive through Raid Bosses general , unavoidable AoE. If this play style is no longer a must as it used to be, number wise, great... But nerfing a skill by 70% of its original duration without offering the skill any buff or even a cost reduction is ridiculous, not to mention the point you made. This is yet another skill that the sorcerer's lose from the uniqueness of their kit as anyone has access to it from the Light armor tree. It is the same as they did a few large patches back with the considerable nerfs to Critical Surge and the buffs to Entropy.

Smolt

This will suck in VMA. Especially using two piece kena, having to recast shields while kena is proceed will be very taxing on resources and cut DPS significantly. And ya, no biggie IMHO for trials and dungeons where you have a healer or even in pvp where shields are recast that often anyway. Usually I only have to recast shields in VMA maybe every 10-15 seconds and am able to plan ahead and avoid casting it with molag kena.

I'll be done farming it before the patch anyhow, and if I decide to get nirn weapons there I'll just use my magblade to farm instead.

Khaos_Bane

Lucky28 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

.

Joy_Division wrote: »

So I PvEd all the content in this game. Every dungeon. Every trial. Every questing zone. All of it. Somebody is going to have to explain to me how exactly reducing the duration of Hardened Ward to 6 seconds is crippling to PvE.

Seriously. I am having difficulty fathoming this notion.

If I am asked to DPS a pledge dungeon, I am not going to put hardened ward on my bar because I am in a group that includes a tank who draws away aggro and a healer whose primary function is to devote resources keeping me alive so I can burn down stuff quicker and more efficiently. Even in a group of average players, I do not feel the need to put hardened ward on my bar to survive. If the group isn't particularly very good, I make mental notes to myself to block more and limit the amount of danger I typically expose myself to - there are other things sorcs can do with their resources that devote slots, time, and magicka to casting damage shields. If that still doesn't work and the healer is just BAD, then I simply put healing ward on my bar. If the tank is just BAD, well, then I would put hardened ward up ... but trash mobs in vet dungeons hit hard and will burn that down in less than 2 seconds, let alone 6. The only difference here is a sorc with a terrible tank will have to cast hardened ward just before an trash pull, rather than casting it after a completed trash pull and having last till the next one.

If I am asked to DPS a Trial, there is zero reason to ever put hardened ward on your bar. Trial bosses are not of the variety where a 20K shield will spare the group a wipe from the Mantikora or what not. There are real DPS thresholds to be overcome and a sorcerer wasting their resources and time to shielding themselves is wasting their healer's resources and opportunities to DPS the boss. I understand that a Sorc could theoretically cast hardened ward every 20 seconds or so in AA and survive an Axe hit Vs. the Mage, but this is an unnecessary precaution that grouping with tanks and healers is supposed to prevent in the first place. Besides, your hardened ward will *not* save you Vs. the Burn phases of these bosses and a sorc casting them instead of DPSing will contribute to a group wipe.

Does the rare sorc tank need a 20 second shield? Well, if they are drawing all the hard hitting aggro, the shield isn't lasting more than 6 seconds is it?

I suppose an argument could have been made a long long time ago at Launch when the veteran level questing difficulty was far greater and sorcs lacked tanks and heals. But again, their shields were not lasting more than 6 seconds against this difficult content and Quest zone difficulty has been far toned down since then.

The only instance I can wrap my brain around how this short duration shield change noticeably effects PvE is Veteran Maelstrom Arena which have enough pauses in between enemy action/attacks where a 20 second shield will conserve the sorcerer's magicka in that they won't have to constantly reapply it in-between these pauses.. But this is hardly crippling. As it is, players in this content are constantly getting beat on by hits anywhere from the 7K to 10K range and, again, that Hardened Ward is coming down quicker than 6 seconds.

*****

This does not mean I like the change to shields. I don't. But let's not get lazy communicating our dislike by pointing to a PvE nerf when it is difficult to see how a shorter duration is, at least from my perspective, more an inconvenience. If my - and ZoS's - viewpoint is incorrect or not appreciating something, then make a specific case to show how a 20 second shield is crucial for a sorcerer's performance in PvE.

My issue with the shield change is that it homogenizes what was the sorcerer's primary means of defense and in effect gives it to all classes and all builds (even stamina). I would have rather ZoS not done this and make it so each class and play-style has some different means of defending themselves, something that would lead to more dynamic and diverse gameplay. Plus this change does not address what most players had an issue with sorcerers: their ability to stack shields.

I would like to have seen sorcerers get an long duration ability akin to how wizards in folklore and other RPGs defending themselves that was more about subtlety and the "you can attack me but bad things will happen to you' variety. In fact, this is what Bound Armaments probably should have been, rather than a DPS toggle that, in fact, provides an imperceptible amount of defense.

I agree that it's more of an inconvenience than crippling. It might well make vMA more of a pain in the butt, or anything challenging that you decide to solo. It will just mean more button presses, stuff will still be possible. My issue is that I don't think it was necessary, seems like it wasn't given much thought; did sorcs need more obstacles to sustaining dps in pve? Not that dps is so important in solo content, but I believe my point is still valid. This change was more necessary for pvp than pve so it just seems like zos cba to differentiate the two.

Sorry but how does shields sustain a dpser? As far as i know, thats a heals job. Healers throws shards, Orbs, or Ele D to help everyone out. Shields can be replaced for bound aegis/magelight or something for extra magicka/crit.
I absolutely think shields duration nerf was necessary. You got magicka sorcs soloing, trials, dungeons, molag bal, and easing thru vMA like nothing 500k+ scores.
If i can do vMA on a stam sorc, these mag Sorcs can too. This means more button presses? That another way of saying needs more skill.

1. never seen or heard of a sorc soloing a trial or anyone soloing a trial. and if they did. it probably took hours and i would say they deserved it.
2. i can solo dungeons on Mag sorc, Mag NB and Mag DK. nerf all three?
3. Molag bal?. that was Methuselah one of the best players in the game with 1000+ CP (before cap) and Emp don't go saying that like just any sorc can do it at the drop of a hat.
4. buttom mashing does not equal skill.

Spot on, thank you.

PainfulFAFA

Lucky28 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

.

Joy_Division wrote: »

So I PvEd all the content in this game. Every dungeon. Every trial. Every questing zone. All of it. Somebody is going to have to explain to me how exactly reducing the duration of Hardened Ward to 6 seconds is crippling to PvE.

Seriously. I am having difficulty fathoming this notion.

If I am asked to DPS a pledge dungeon, I am not going to put hardened ward on my bar because I am in a group that includes a tank who draws away aggro and a healer whose primary function is to devote resources keeping me alive so I can burn down stuff quicker and more efficiently. Even in a group of average players, I do not feel the need to put hardened ward on my bar to survive. If the group isn't particularly very good, I make mental notes to myself to block more and limit the amount of danger I typically expose myself to - there are other things sorcs can do with their resources that devote slots, time, and magicka to casting damage shields. If that still doesn't work and the healer is just BAD, then I simply put healing ward on my bar. If the tank is just BAD, well, then I would put hardened ward up ... but trash mobs in vet dungeons hit hard and will burn that down in less than 2 seconds, let alone 6. The only difference here is a sorc with a terrible tank will have to cast hardened ward just before an trash pull, rather than casting it after a completed trash pull and having last till the next one.

If I am asked to DPS a Trial, there is zero reason to ever put hardened ward on your bar. Trial bosses are not of the variety where a 20K shield will spare the group a wipe from the Mantikora or what not. There are real DPS thresholds to be overcome and a sorcerer wasting their resources and time to shielding themselves is wasting their healer's resources and opportunities to DPS the boss. I understand that a Sorc could theoretically cast hardened ward every 20 seconds or so in AA and survive an Axe hit Vs. the Mage, but this is an unnecessary precaution that grouping with tanks and healers is supposed to prevent in the first place. Besides, your hardened ward will *not* save you Vs. the Burn phases of these bosses and a sorc casting them instead of DPSing will contribute to a group wipe.

Does the rare sorc tank need a 20 second shield? Well, if they are drawing all the hard hitting aggro, the shield isn't lasting more than 6 seconds is it?

I suppose an argument could have been made a long long time ago at Launch when the veteran level questing difficulty was far greater and sorcs lacked tanks and heals. But again, their shields were not lasting more than 6 seconds against this difficult content and Quest zone difficulty has been far toned down since then.

The only instance I can wrap my brain around how this short duration shield change noticeably effects PvE is Veteran Maelstrom Arena which have enough pauses in between enemy action/attacks where a 20 second shield will conserve the sorcerer's magicka in that they won't have to constantly reapply it in-between these pauses.. But this is hardly crippling. As it is, players in this content are constantly getting beat on by hits anywhere from the 7K to 10K range and, again, that Hardened Ward is coming down quicker than 6 seconds.

*****

This does not mean I like the change to shields. I don't. But let's not get lazy communicating our dislike by pointing to a PvE nerf when it is difficult to see how a shorter duration is, at least from my perspective, more an inconvenience. If my - and ZoS's - viewpoint is incorrect or not appreciating something, then make a specific case to show how a 20 second shield is crucial for a sorcerer's performance in PvE.

My issue with the shield change is that it homogenizes what was the sorcerer's primary means of defense and in effect gives it to all classes and all builds (even stamina). I would have rather ZoS not done this and make it so each class and play-style has some different means of defending themselves, something that would lead to more dynamic and diverse gameplay. Plus this change does not address what most players had an issue with sorcerers: their ability to stack shields.

I would like to have seen sorcerers get an long duration ability akin to how wizards in folklore and other RPGs defending themselves that was more about subtlety and the "you can attack me but bad things will happen to you' variety. In fact, this is what Bound Armaments probably should have been, rather than a DPS toggle that, in fact, provides an imperceptible amount of defense.

I agree that it's more of an inconvenience than crippling. It might well make vMA more of a pain in the butt, or anything challenging that you decide to solo. It will just mean more button presses, stuff will still be possible. My issue is that I don't think it was necessary, seems like it wasn't given much thought; did sorcs need more obstacles to sustaining dps in pve? Not that dps is so important in solo content, but I believe my point is still valid. This change was more necessary for pvp than pve so it just seems like zos cba to differentiate the two.

Sorry but how does shields sustain a dpser? As far as i know, thats a heals job. Healers throws shards, Orbs, or Ele D to help everyone out. Shields can be replaced for bound aegis/magelight or something for extra magicka/crit.
I absolutely think shields duration nerf was necessary. You got magicka sorcs soloing, trials, dungeons, molag bal, and easing thru vMA like nothing 500k+ scores.
If i can do vMA on a stam sorc, these mag Sorcs can too. This means more button presses? That another way of saying needs more skill.

1. never seen or heard of a sorc soloing a trial or anyone soloing a trial. and if they did. it probably took hours and i would say they deserved it.
2. i can solo dungeons on Mag sorc, Mag NB and Mag DK. nerf all three?
3. Molag bal?. that was Methuselah one of the best players in the game with 1000+ CP (before cap) and Emp don't go saying that like just any sorc can do it at the drop of a hat.
4. buttom mashing does not equal skill.

1. Trials supposed to be end game... not for bored soloers.
2. You can pretty much solo anything on a magicka build, its the easiest playstyle. Sorc is just the easiest with 30k shields at the whim of a button press. much skill
3. Doesnt matter who it is, even the devs did not expect to see that ANYONE could solo it and it haaaad to be a sorc. A magicka sorc with 1000+ cp, Emp buffs, and no life is pretty much unstoppable JUST BY CLASS DESIGN alone. Ask him how his stam sorc performed compared to magicka. Completly different story i bet. Name 1 other class that could do the same with 1000 cp and emp? Maaaybe magplar, but thats a BIG maybe. BOL spam can only get you so far.
4. It will next patch. Mag sorcs just had it super easy since 1.6.

Just by playing thru vMA on ANY magicka build u can see how easy magicka builds have it. Poison stage is a nightmare for stam players but on a magicka spec, u can spam shields and walk to the purge pool NO PROBLEM LOL whereas a stam build is instant dead. Or when a Dinodaedra spitsfire at you on the last stage, if u got the magicka, just spam shields incase of emergency. What does stam have to do? Run around in circles/vigor/drop dead.

Lucky28

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

.

Joy_Division wrote: »

So I PvEd all the content in this game. Every dungeon. Every trial. Every questing zone. All of it. Somebody is going to have to explain to me how exactly reducing the duration of Hardened Ward to 6 seconds is crippling to PvE.

Seriously. I am having difficulty fathoming this notion.

If I am asked to DPS a pledge dungeon, I am not going to put hardened ward on my bar because I am in a group that includes a tank who draws away aggro and a healer whose primary function is to devote resources keeping me alive so I can burn down stuff quicker and more efficiently. Even in a group of average players, I do not feel the need to put hardened ward on my bar to survive. If the group isn't particularly very good, I make mental notes to myself to block more and limit the amount of danger I typically expose myself to - there are other things sorcs can do with their resources that devote slots, time, and magicka to casting damage shields. If that still doesn't work and the healer is just BAD, then I simply put healing ward on my bar. If the tank is just BAD, well, then I would put hardened ward up ... but trash mobs in vet dungeons hit hard and will burn that down in less than 2 seconds, let alone 6. The only difference here is a sorc with a terrible tank will have to cast hardened ward just before an trash pull, rather than casting it after a completed trash pull and having last till the next one.

If I am asked to DPS a Trial, there is zero reason to ever put hardened ward on your bar. Trial bosses are not of the variety where a 20K shield will spare the group a wipe from the Mantikora or what not. There are real DPS thresholds to be overcome and a sorcerer wasting their resources and time to shielding themselves is wasting their healer's resources and opportunities to DPS the boss. I understand that a Sorc could theoretically cast hardened ward every 20 seconds or so in AA and survive an Axe hit Vs. the Mage, but this is an unnecessary precaution that grouping with tanks and healers is supposed to prevent in the first place. Besides, your hardened ward will *not* save you Vs. the Burn phases of these bosses and a sorc casting them instead of DPSing will contribute to a group wipe.

Does the rare sorc tank need a 20 second shield? Well, if they are drawing all the hard hitting aggro, the shield isn't lasting more than 6 seconds is it?

I suppose an argument could have been made a long long time ago at Launch when the veteran level questing difficulty was far greater and sorcs lacked tanks and heals. But again, their shields were not lasting more than 6 seconds against this difficult content and Quest zone difficulty has been far toned down since then.

The only instance I can wrap my brain around how this short duration shield change noticeably effects PvE is Veteran Maelstrom Arena which have enough pauses in between enemy action/attacks where a 20 second shield will conserve the sorcerer's magicka in that they won't have to constantly reapply it in-between these pauses.. But this is hardly crippling. As it is, players in this content are constantly getting beat on by hits anywhere from the 7K to 10K range and, again, that Hardened Ward is coming down quicker than 6 seconds.

*****

This does not mean I like the change to shields. I don't. But let's not get lazy communicating our dislike by pointing to a PvE nerf when it is difficult to see how a shorter duration is, at least from my perspective, more an inconvenience. If my - and ZoS's - viewpoint is incorrect or not appreciating something, then make a specific case to show how a 20 second shield is crucial for a sorcerer's performance in PvE.

My issue with the shield change is that it homogenizes what was the sorcerer's primary means of defense and in effect gives it to all classes and all builds (even stamina). I would have rather ZoS not done this and make it so each class and play-style has some different means of defending themselves, something that would lead to more dynamic and diverse gameplay. Plus this change does not address what most players had an issue with sorcerers: their ability to stack shields.

I would like to have seen sorcerers get an long duration ability akin to how wizards in folklore and other RPGs defending themselves that was more about subtlety and the "you can attack me but bad things will happen to you' variety. In fact, this is what Bound Armaments probably should have been, rather than a DPS toggle that, in fact, provides an imperceptible amount of defense.

I agree that it's more of an inconvenience than crippling. It might well make vMA more of a pain in the butt, or anything challenging that you decide to solo. It will just mean more button presses, stuff will still be possible. My issue is that I don't think it was necessary, seems like it wasn't given much thought; did sorcs need more obstacles to sustaining dps in pve? Not that dps is so important in solo content, but I believe my point is still valid. This change was more necessary for pvp than pve so it just seems like zos cba to differentiate the two.

Sorry but how does shields sustain a dpser? As far as i know, thats a heals job. Healers throws shards, Orbs, or Ele D to help everyone out. Shields can be replaced for bound aegis/magelight or something for extra magicka/crit.
I absolutely think shields duration nerf was necessary. You got magicka sorcs soloing, trials, dungeons, molag bal, and easing thru vMA like nothing 500k+ scores.
If i can do vMA on a stam sorc, these mag Sorcs can too. This means more button presses? That another way of saying needs more skill.

1. never seen or heard of a sorc soloing a trial or anyone soloing a trial. and if they did. it probably took hours and i would say they deserved it.
2. i can solo dungeons on Mag sorc, Mag NB and Mag DK. nerf all three?
3. Molag bal?. that was Methuselah one of the best players in the game with 1000+ CP (before cap) and Emp don't go saying that like just any sorc can do it at the drop of a hat.
4. buttom mashing does not equal skill.

1. Trials supposed to be end game... not for bored soloers.
2. You can pretty much solo anything on a magicka build, its the easiest playstyle. Sorc is just the easiest with 30k shields at the whim of a button press. much skill
3. Doesnt matter who it is, even the devs did not expect to see that ANYONE could solo it and it haaaad to be a sorc. A magicka sorc with 1000+ cp, Emp buffs, and no life is pretty much unstoppable JUST BY CLASS DESIGN alone. Ask him how his stam sorc performed compared to magicka. Completly different story i bet. Name 1 other class that could do the same with 1000 cp and emp? Maaaybe magplar, but thats a BIG maybe. BOL spam can only get you so far.
4. It will next patch. Mag sorcs just had it super easy since 1.6.

Just by playing thru vMA on ANY magicka build u can see how easy magicka builds have it. Poison stage is a nightmare for stam players but on a magicka spec, u can spam shields and walk to the purge pool NO PROBLEM LOL whereas a stam build is instant dead. Or when a Dinodaedra spitsfire at you on the last stage, if u got the magicka, just spam shields incase of emergency. What does stam have to do? Run around in circles/vigor/drop dead.

1. Haven't considered trials to be end game in months.
2. every class has their strengths mag sorcs is their shields. frankly i don't have an easier time soloing content with my mag sorc than my other characters. maybe cause i don't just sit there and *** about how OP sorc shields are and actually play my others classes. who knows.
3. the only class that probably couldn't solo Molag ball with 1000+ CP and emp is mag DK, probably. I can solo banner bosses in IC with Mag sorc and Mag nightblade. there is not much difference.
4. yeah sure

anyways. this entire conversation is pathetic. if you're just gonna sit here and complain about how easy you think another class/build has it. go for it.

FriedEggSandwich

.

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

FriedEggSandwich wrote: »

.

Joy_Division wrote: »

So I PvEd all the content in this game. Every dungeon. Every trial. Every questing zone. All of it. Somebody is going to have to explain to me how exactly reducing the duration of Hardened Ward to 6 seconds is crippling to PvE.

Seriously. I am having difficulty fathoming this notion.

If I am asked to DPS a pledge dungeon, I am not going to put hardened ward on my bar because I am in a group that includes a tank who draws away aggro and a healer whose primary function is to devote resources keeping me alive so I can burn down stuff quicker and more efficiently. Even in a group of average players, I do not feel the need to put hardened ward on my bar to survive. If the group isn't particularly very good, I make mental notes to myself to block more and limit the amount of danger I typically expose myself to - there are other things sorcs can do with their resources that devote slots, time, and magicka to casting damage shields. If that still doesn't work and the healer is just BAD, then I simply put healing ward on my bar. If the tank is just BAD, well, then I would put hardened ward up ... but trash mobs in vet dungeons hit hard and will burn that down in less than 2 seconds, let alone 6. The only difference here is a sorc with a terrible tank will have to cast hardened ward just before an trash pull, rather than casting it after a completed trash pull and having last till the next one.

If I am asked to DPS a Trial, there is zero reason to ever put hardened ward on your bar. Trial bosses are not of the variety where a 20K shield will spare the group a wipe from the Mantikora or what not. There are real DPS thresholds to be overcome and a sorcerer wasting their resources and time to shielding themselves is wasting their healer's resources and opportunities to DPS the boss. I understand that a Sorc could theoretically cast hardened ward every 20 seconds or so in AA and survive an Axe hit Vs. the Mage, but this is an unnecessary precaution that grouping with tanks and healers is supposed to prevent in the first place. Besides, your hardened ward will *not* save you Vs. the Burn phases of these bosses and a sorc casting them instead of DPSing will contribute to a group wipe.

Does the rare sorc tank need a 20 second shield? Well, if they are drawing all the hard hitting aggro, the shield isn't lasting more than 6 seconds is it?

I suppose an argument could have been made a long long time ago at Launch when the veteran level questing difficulty was far greater and sorcs lacked tanks and heals. But again, their shields were not lasting more than 6 seconds against this difficult content and Quest zone difficulty has been far toned down since then.

The only instance I can wrap my brain around how this short duration shield change noticeably effects PvE is Veteran Maelstrom Arena which have enough pauses in between enemy action/attacks where a 20 second shield will conserve the sorcerer's magicka in that they won't have to constantly reapply it in-between these pauses.. But this is hardly crippling. As it is, players in this content are constantly getting beat on by hits anywhere from the 7K to 10K range and, again, that Hardened Ward is coming down quicker than 6 seconds.

*****

This does not mean I like the change to shields. I don't. But let's not get lazy communicating our dislike by pointing to a PvE nerf when it is difficult to see how a shorter duration is, at least from my perspective, more an inconvenience. If my - and ZoS's - viewpoint is incorrect or not appreciating something, then make a specific case to show how a 20 second shield is crucial for a sorcerer's performance in PvE.

My issue with the shield change is that it homogenizes what was the sorcerer's primary means of defense and in effect gives it to all classes and all builds (even stamina). I would have rather ZoS not done this and make it so each class and play-style has some different means of defending themselves, something that would lead to more dynamic and diverse gameplay. Plus this change does not address what most players had an issue with sorcerers: their ability to stack shields.

I would like to have seen sorcerers get an long duration ability akin to how wizards in folklore and other RPGs defending themselves that was more about subtlety and the "you can attack me but bad things will happen to you' variety. In fact, this is what Bound Armaments probably should have been, rather than a DPS toggle that, in fact, provides an imperceptible amount of defense.

I agree that it's more of an inconvenience than crippling. It might well make vMA more of a pain in the butt, or anything challenging that you decide to solo. It will just mean more button presses, stuff will still be possible. My issue is that I don't think it was necessary, seems like it wasn't given much thought; did sorcs need more obstacles to sustaining dps in pve? Not that dps is so important in solo content, but I believe my point is still valid. This change was more necessary for pvp than pve so it just seems like zos cba to differentiate the two.

Sorry but how does shields sustain a dpser? As far as i know, thats a heals job. Healers throws shards, Orbs, or Ele D to help everyone out. Shields can be replaced for bound aegis/magelight or something for extra magicka/crit.
I absolutely think shields duration nerf was necessary. You got magicka sorcs soloing, trials, dungeons, molag bal, and easing thru vMA like nothing 500k+ scores.
If i can do vMA on a stam sorc, these mag Sorcs can too. This means more button presses? That another way of saying needs more skill.

1. never seen or heard of a sorc soloing a trial or anyone soloing a trial. and if they did. it probably took hours and i would say they deserved it.
2. i can solo dungeons on Mag sorc, Mag NB and Mag DK. nerf all three?
3. Molag bal?. that was Methuselah one of the best players in the game with 1000+ CP (before cap) and Emp don't go saying that like just any sorc can do it at the drop of a hat.
4. buttom mashing does not equal skill.

1. Trials supposed to be end game... not for bored soloers.
2. You can pretty much solo anything on a magicka build, its the easiest playstyle. Sorc is just the easiest with 30k shields at the whim of a button press. much skill
3. Doesnt matter who it is, even the devs did not expect to see that ANYONE could solo it and it haaaad to be a sorc. A magicka sorc with 1000+ cp, Emp buffs, and no life is pretty much unstoppable JUST BY CLASS DESIGN alone. Ask him how his stam sorc performed compared to magicka. Completly different story i bet. Name 1 other class that could do the same with 1000 cp and emp? Maaaybe magplar, but thats a BIG maybe. BOL spam can only get you so far.
4. It will next patch. Mag sorcs just had it super easy since 1.6.

Just by playing thru vMA on ANY magicka build u can see how easy magicka builds have it. Poison stage is a nightmare for stam players but on a magicka spec, u can spam shields and walk to the purge pool NO PROBLEM LOL whereas a stam build is instant dead. Or when a Dinodaedra spitsfire at you on the last stage, if u got the magicka, just spam shields incase of emergency. What does stam have to do? Run around in circles/vigor/drop dead.

Molag bal isn't even that hard. If 3-4 non-emp players with 300cp can take him on it's conceivable that one emp with 1000cp could easily do it, probably regardless of class. I think you're just being inflammatory now.

In the poison stage of vMA you can't spam shields and walk to the purge pool when poisoned, it's impossible unless you happen to be next to it. I'm lucky if I can get one streak in before that poison kills me, and that's while spamming my 25k ward. If the second tick doesn't kill me the third will for sure, and it ticks fast. All classes need good positioning in vMA, even sorcs.

Your gripe with magicka vs stamina in vMA has more to do with its design than shields. It favours ranged builds, especially ranged builds with mobility. If you can hit things hard from a distance and reposition quickly you will find vMA easier than if you have to stand in front of every mob and smack them.

illuminousflux

I'm just super bummed that stam sorcs didn't get a whole lot of love this patch. I was really hoping to see more stamina based class abilities for stam sorc. Hurricane is alright, but I feel like it still needs more, maybe to draw enemies closer to you and to make it hard for them to escape( fits the name hurricane well)

As far as the nerf to hardened ward goes, I really don't see it as being very significant. In situation where I actually have to use hardened ward, such as in vMA or in PvP, it's never going to be staying up for that long anyways. It is kind of lame that everyone gets a relative equivalent of hardened ward now with changes to annulment and bone shield, but on the bright side, I guess my stam sorc can have a shield just like my mag sorc now .

Anyways, I'm really hoping ZoS will shock us with some more changes to the sorc skill tree with some stamina based morphs, maybe a close ranged stamina execute morph of mages fury called, Shock Blade, where we shank the enemy with a lightning knife or something cool like that. Or maybe they'll make dark exchange an instant cast. Or anything really, but hopefully they either make Hurricane better, or scrap it all together, it's even sillier than thundering presence.

Now on to a more positive note, I love all the changes made. Really happy I don't have to look at Bound Aegis or Bound Armaments anymore. Thanks for finally doing that ZoS. Also I love the changes to absorption field and suppression field, though it does kind of suck to lose the regen buff from absorption and the damage reduction buff from suppression . Also the health bonus for summoning daedric pets is pretty cool too.

So good changes overall, I just think stamina sorc deserves some good attention and some more useful class skills. Crit surge is great for boosting weapon dmg, but as a heal it's worthless in PvP, unless you're farming IC, in which case crit surge and steel tornado ftw, but in actual player on player combat it's overwhelmingly ineffective at healing.