Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Grao wrote: »

Again, my problem with sorcs is in PvE, PvP I believe the class is alright, actually, it is because of PvP that we so often are forced to swallow nerfs to our best spells.

Agreed

We pve'ers shouldnt be punished for a playstyle we do not use

Ive said this before and ill say it again

you cannot nerf/buff one style of the game and expect the other to be happy with it

i and many others like myself do not, will not, and cannot accept this change.

I am personally tired of having my character stats and skills changed because some pvp leetest decided to whine about it

Grao

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Again, my problem with sorcs is in PvE, PvP I believe the class is alright, actually, it is because of PvP that we so often are forced to swallow nerfs to our best spells.

Agreed

We pve'ers shouldnt be punished for a playstyle we do not use

Ive said this before and ill say it again

you cannot nerf/buff one style of the game and expect the other to be happy with it

i and many others like myself do not, will not, and cannot accept this change.

I am personally tired of having my character stats and skills changed because some pvp leetest decided to whine about it

Precisely the problem, instead of balancing scales to prevent the abuse of a skill in PvP, what ZoS needs to do is change the abilities so they can be balanced for both PvP and PvE uses.

For instance, this change with Ward will cost PDS in PvE because or we will need to spend more resources to keep the shield up or we will need to lower our Magicka pool to have additional health and survive boss encounters. So what Zos has to do? Give us something in return that will increase our DPS, for instance, make so that one of the morphs for the ward empowers us and gives us extra damage. The other morph can empower pets and heal them (we really could use a heal for pets).

Yes, that will make so that the ability is used as DPS buff in PvP as well, but the complain from PvP is that sorcerers are hard to kill because of the eternal shield stacking, it is not about our damage output. (Still think it is a ridiculous complain considering Vamp DKs can still kill 5 people on their own and barely suffer damage, but eh...)

You need to nerf an aspect of a skill, fine... Give something in return when the change is so significant though. Or at least make so that refreshing the shield is not as expensive if the shield wasn't destroyed within those 6 seconds.

dodgehopper_ESO

GriM_728 wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Dixa wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

So after about two days of only playing my DragonKnight on PTS I hopped on my sorc so I decided to comment on some things.
1. The shield change is great, I believe it now requires a bit more timing on the sorcerers part to protect themselves with shields. As I was fighting I found the most effective way was to kite players while lining up burst then when I see them about to use a gap closer or ranged attack counter their burst with a shield, then kite again.
2. @ZOS_GinaBruno We really need to fix the health desyncs, my sorcerer is the only class I play on that consistently causes health desyncs to the people I fight, it happened in 11 of the 14 fights I had yesterday on PTS and got annoying to the point where I felt bad for playing on my sorc because almost every fight people would randomly drop dead at 40%-50% health
3. I am still a strong believe that Mages Wrath and its morphs should not be dodgeable. People made the argument that meteor shouldn't be reflected simply because its a meteor and Radiant Destruction should not be dodgable because its a channelled beam, Im going to make the same argument by saying "ITS A LIGHTNING BOLT FOR GOD SAKES!".

Essentially other than a few bugs I feel sorc is in a good place, it still seems easier to play than other classes but thats just my personal opinion.

To everyone saying "There are plenty of other ways to deal with shield stacking" I feel like the combat team doesn't want to do away with it, I also feel like the reduction to 6 seconds was one of the best things they could do. Shields as they are on live are crossing the line from being an active defence to being a passive defence, unless sorcerers got a new passive that allows them to see the future, there is really no need for them to stack a shield to prevent damage they will take 15 or 20 seconds from that time. While sorcerers main weakness should now be more relevant in smaller fights as when they are CCed theres a chance that their shield will expire allowing for them to be bursted down.

are you talking pve or pvp?

please state so. they are radically different game types.

I'm talking from the perspective of PvP, as you can tell when I said I was dueling. I don't see how these changes don't apply to PvE though as sorcerer is basically the easiest class to do solo content. Before people start harassing me, I never called for sorcerer nerfs, in fact I'vs said sorcerers were balanced ever since 1.6 dropped and they could one shot people with a frag, in my post all I wanted to convey is that sorcerer is no worse or better off than it was before. All it'll require is a bit more timing. In PvE you'll need to learn fight mechanics and when you're about to be hit by burst and know to stack shields then, in PvP you'll need to pay attention to those who you are fighting in order to effectively shield against incoming damage.

In PvE I am not a dps as I don't like to dps, I am a magicka sorc tank. The changes kill my build off and make it not worth playing. I will burn through magicka so fast in a boss fight it's not even funny. And that's sitting at 2400+ magicka regen. Don't tell me I need to learn how to tank then or I'm doing it wrong or I need to better manage my resources and use pots, that's a load of crap. I've tanked in games for a long time and as a magicka tank I've had the most fun. It's not the cut and dry basic "hold my shield and wait for a shard to be thrown my way" and I enjoy it that way it is.

Why in the hell do these "tweaks" involve COMPLETELY redesigning a skill instead of a small adjustment? Maybe ZOS, Gina and Wrobel need to set up a community survey like the Warframe devs did when they were discussing changes so we can have some input without causing rage within the community. Also would help the team at ZOS stated why they WOULD LIKE TO make these changes instead "here, live our revamping of the game" policy as they do patch after patch.

Small changes are easier for us as a whole community to handle rather than changing the entire way a class or skill works, but that's obvious logic.

I felt the same for a long time, as a Stamina Templar Tank. I've argued a long time though that they should make exchange/surge a better skill for Sorcs. The Sorcerer shield was just really good, and I know about it second hand. I do realize the annoyance of having your build/style take a faceplant, as my original character has gone through something like 4 major complete overhauls (at least). I suspect the changes in the game with DB will do that again for me. At some point it will be nice to have the game fall into a state of relative balance. I think its coming though.

Grao

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

GriM_728 wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Dixa wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

So after about two days of only playing my DragonKnight on PTS I hopped on my sorc so I decided to comment on some things.
1. The shield change is great, I believe it now requires a bit more timing on the sorcerers part to protect themselves with shields. As I was fighting I found the most effective way was to kite players while lining up burst then when I see them about to use a gap closer or ranged attack counter their burst with a shield, then kite again.
2. @ZOS_GinaBruno We really need to fix the health desyncs, my sorcerer is the only class I play on that consistently causes health desyncs to the people I fight, it happened in 11 of the 14 fights I had yesterday on PTS and got annoying to the point where I felt bad for playing on my sorc because almost every fight people would randomly drop dead at 40%-50% health
3. I am still a strong believe that Mages Wrath and its morphs should not be dodgeable. People made the argument that meteor shouldn't be reflected simply because its a meteor and Radiant Destruction should not be dodgable because its a channelled beam, Im going to make the same argument by saying "ITS A LIGHTNING BOLT FOR GOD SAKES!".

Essentially other than a few bugs I feel sorc is in a good place, it still seems easier to play than other classes but thats just my personal opinion.

To everyone saying "There are plenty of other ways to deal with shield stacking" I feel like the combat team doesn't want to do away with it, I also feel like the reduction to 6 seconds was one of the best things they could do. Shields as they are on live are crossing the line from being an active defence to being a passive defence, unless sorcerers got a new passive that allows them to see the future, there is really no need for them to stack a shield to prevent damage they will take 15 or 20 seconds from that time. While sorcerers main weakness should now be more relevant in smaller fights as when they are CCed theres a chance that their shield will expire allowing for them to be bursted down.

are you talking pve or pvp?

please state so. they are radically different game types.

I'm talking from the perspective of PvP, as you can tell when I said I was dueling. I don't see how these changes don't apply to PvE though as sorcerer is basically the easiest class to do solo content. Before people start harassing me, I never called for sorcerer nerfs, in fact I'vs said sorcerers were balanced ever since 1.6 dropped and they could one shot people with a frag, in my post all I wanted to convey is that sorcerer is no worse or better off than it was before. All it'll require is a bit more timing. In PvE you'll need to learn fight mechanics and when you're about to be hit by burst and know to stack shields then, in PvP you'll need to pay attention to those who you are fighting in order to effectively shield against incoming damage.

In PvE I am not a dps as I don't like to dps, I am a magicka sorc tank. The changes kill my build off and make it not worth playing. I will burn through magicka so fast in a boss fight it's not even funny. And that's sitting at 2400+ magicka regen. Don't tell me I need to learn how to tank then or I'm doing it wrong or I need to better manage my resources and use pots, that's a load of crap. I've tanked in games for a long time and as a magicka tank I've had the most fun. It's not the cut and dry basic "hold my shield and wait for a shard to be thrown my way" and I enjoy it that way it is.

Why in the hell do these "tweaks" involve COMPLETELY redesigning a skill instead of a small adjustment? Maybe ZOS, Gina and Wrobel need to set up a community survey like the Warframe devs did when they were discussing changes so we can have some input without causing rage within the community. Also would help the team at ZOS stated why they WOULD LIKE TO make these changes instead "here, live our revamping of the game" policy as they do patch after patch.

Small changes are easier for us as a whole community to handle rather than changing the entire way a class or skill works, but that's obvious logic.

I felt the same for a long time, as a Stamina Templar Tank. I've argued a long time though that they should make exchange/surge a better skill for Sorcs. The Sorcerer shield was just really good, and I know about it second hand. I do realize the annoyance of having your build/style take a faceplant, as my original character has gone through something like 4 major complete overhauls (at least). I suspect the changes in the game with DB will do that again for me. At some point it will be nice to have the game fall into a state of relative balance. I think its coming though.

Exchange has been a useless skill since release and they still won't fix it >.>

The shield spamming was powerful in PvP, but there were better ways to deal with the problem than to reduce its duration to less than a third of its original value >.>

It is really sad though, with this change they fix what PvPers have been crying about, but they screw PvE DPS sorcs by lowering our DPS and they screw Sorc Tanking too.... Sorcs are a class that really doesn't have a role they do better than the other classes.

DKs and Templars are better tanks, Templars and NBs are better healers and pretty much every DPS is better than a Magicka or Stamin sorc. >.>

GriM_728

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

GriM_728 wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Dixa wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

So after about two days of only playing my DragonKnight on PTS I hopped on my sorc so I decided to comment on some things.
1. The shield change is great, I believe it now requires a bit more timing on the sorcerers part to protect themselves with shields. As I was fighting I found the most effective way was to kite players while lining up burst then when I see them about to use a gap closer or ranged attack counter their burst with a shield, then kite again.
2. @ZOS_GinaBruno We really need to fix the health desyncs, my sorcerer is the only class I play on that consistently causes health desyncs to the people I fight, it happened in 11 of the 14 fights I had yesterday on PTS and got annoying to the point where I felt bad for playing on my sorc because almost every fight people would randomly drop dead at 40%-50% health
3. I am still a strong believe that Mages Wrath and its morphs should not be dodgeable. People made the argument that meteor shouldn't be reflected simply because its a meteor and Radiant Destruction should not be dodgable because its a channelled beam, Im going to make the same argument by saying "ITS A LIGHTNING BOLT FOR GOD SAKES!".

Essentially other than a few bugs I feel sorc is in a good place, it still seems easier to play than other classes but thats just my personal opinion.

To everyone saying "There are plenty of other ways to deal with shield stacking" I feel like the combat team doesn't want to do away with it, I also feel like the reduction to 6 seconds was one of the best things they could do. Shields as they are on live are crossing the line from being an active defence to being a passive defence, unless sorcerers got a new passive that allows them to see the future, there is really no need for them to stack a shield to prevent damage they will take 15 or 20 seconds from that time. While sorcerers main weakness should now be more relevant in smaller fights as when they are CCed theres a chance that their shield will expire allowing for them to be bursted down.

are you talking pve or pvp?

please state so. they are radically different game types.

I'm talking from the perspective of PvP, as you can tell when I said I was dueling. I don't see how these changes don't apply to PvE though as sorcerer is basically the easiest class to do solo content. Before people start harassing me, I never called for sorcerer nerfs, in fact I'vs said sorcerers were balanced ever since 1.6 dropped and they could one shot people with a frag, in my post all I wanted to convey is that sorcerer is no worse or better off than it was before. All it'll require is a bit more timing. In PvE you'll need to learn fight mechanics and when you're about to be hit by burst and know to stack shields then, in PvP you'll need to pay attention to those who you are fighting in order to effectively shield against incoming damage.

In PvE I am not a dps as I don't like to dps, I am a magicka sorc tank. The changes kill my build off and make it not worth playing. I will burn through magicka so fast in a boss fight it's not even funny. And that's sitting at 2400+ magicka regen. Don't tell me I need to learn how to tank then or I'm doing it wrong or I need to better manage my resources and use pots, that's a load of crap. I've tanked in games for a long time and as a magicka tank I've had the most fun. It's not the cut and dry basic "hold my shield and wait for a shard to be thrown my way" and I enjoy it that way it is.

Why in the hell do these "tweaks" involve COMPLETELY redesigning a skill instead of a small adjustment? Maybe ZOS, Gina and Wrobel need to set up a community survey like the Warframe devs did when they were discussing changes so we can have some input without causing rage within the community. Also would help the team at ZOS stated why they WOULD LIKE TO make these changes instead "here, live our revamping of the game" policy as they do patch after patch.

Small changes are easier for us as a whole community to handle rather than changing the entire way a class or skill works, but that's obvious logic.

I felt the same for a long time, as a Stamina Templar Tank. I've argued a long time though that they should make exchange/surge a better skill for Sorcs. The Sorcerer shield was just really good, and I know about it second hand. I do realize the annoyance of having your build/style take a faceplant, as my original character has gone through something like 4 major complete overhauls (at least). I suspect the changes in the game with DB will do that again for me. At some point it will be nice to have the game fall into a state of relative balance. I think its coming though.

I don't feel like that will ever happen with this game as ZOS tends to balance like a bull running through a glass house full of china. Tbh I give up on them. Their decision making is not going to make this a "long term" game. The game, classes, skills, and so on CANNOT continue to be redesigned every update without consequences. I'll play a little bit longer but if these changes go to our live game I have to say goodbye. There's no reason I or anyone else should have to re-roll all the time just to play. We shouldn't have to adapt to poor leadership and decision making.

Grao

GriM_728 wrote: »

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

GriM_728 wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

Dixa wrote: »

vortexman11 wrote: »

So after about two days of only playing my DragonKnight on PTS I hopped on my sorc so I decided to comment on some things.
1. The shield change is great, I believe it now requires a bit more timing on the sorcerers part to protect themselves with shields. As I was fighting I found the most effective way was to kite players while lining up burst then when I see them about to use a gap closer or ranged attack counter their burst with a shield, then kite again.
2. @ZOS_GinaBruno We really need to fix the health desyncs, my sorcerer is the only class I play on that consistently causes health desyncs to the people I fight, it happened in 11 of the 14 fights I had yesterday on PTS and got annoying to the point where I felt bad for playing on my sorc because almost every fight people would randomly drop dead at 40%-50% health
3. I am still a strong believe that Mages Wrath and its morphs should not be dodgeable. People made the argument that meteor shouldn't be reflected simply because its a meteor and Radiant Destruction should not be dodgable because its a channelled beam, Im going to make the same argument by saying "ITS A LIGHTNING BOLT FOR GOD SAKES!".

Essentially other than a few bugs I feel sorc is in a good place, it still seems easier to play than other classes but thats just my personal opinion.

To everyone saying "There are plenty of other ways to deal with shield stacking" I feel like the combat team doesn't want to do away with it, I also feel like the reduction to 6 seconds was one of the best things they could do. Shields as they are on live are crossing the line from being an active defence to being a passive defence, unless sorcerers got a new passive that allows them to see the future, there is really no need for them to stack a shield to prevent damage they will take 15 or 20 seconds from that time. While sorcerers main weakness should now be more relevant in smaller fights as when they are CCed theres a chance that their shield will expire allowing for them to be bursted down.

are you talking pve or pvp?

please state so. they are radically different game types.

I'm talking from the perspective of PvP, as you can tell when I said I was dueling. I don't see how these changes don't apply to PvE though as sorcerer is basically the easiest class to do solo content. Before people start harassing me, I never called for sorcerer nerfs, in fact I'vs said sorcerers were balanced ever since 1.6 dropped and they could one shot people with a frag, in my post all I wanted to convey is that sorcerer is no worse or better off than it was before. All it'll require is a bit more timing. In PvE you'll need to learn fight mechanics and when you're about to be hit by burst and know to stack shields then, in PvP you'll need to pay attention to those who you are fighting in order to effectively shield against incoming damage.

In PvE I am not a dps as I don't like to dps, I am a magicka sorc tank. The changes kill my build off and make it not worth playing. I will burn through magicka so fast in a boss fight it's not even funny. And that's sitting at 2400+ magicka regen. Don't tell me I need to learn how to tank then or I'm doing it wrong or I need to better manage my resources and use pots, that's a load of crap. I've tanked in games for a long time and as a magicka tank I've had the most fun. It's not the cut and dry basic "hold my shield and wait for a shard to be thrown my way" and I enjoy it that way it is.

Why in the hell do these "tweaks" involve COMPLETELY redesigning a skill instead of a small adjustment? Maybe ZOS, Gina and Wrobel need to set up a community survey like the Warframe devs did when they were discussing changes so we can have some input without causing rage within the community. Also would help the team at ZOS stated why they WOULD LIKE TO make these changes instead "here, live our revamping of the game" policy as they do patch after patch.

Small changes are easier for us as a whole community to handle rather than changing the entire way a class or skill works, but that's obvious logic.

I felt the same for a long time, as a Stamina Templar Tank. I've argued a long time though that they should make exchange/surge a better skill for Sorcs. The Sorcerer shield was just really good, and I know about it second hand. I do realize the annoyance of having your build/style take a faceplant, as my original character has gone through something like 4 major complete overhauls (at least). I suspect the changes in the game with DB will do that again for me. At some point it will be nice to have the game fall into a state of relative balance. I think its coming though.

I don't feel like that will ever happen with this game as ZOS tends to balance like a bull running through a glass house full of china. Tbh I give up on them. Their decision making is not going to make this a "long term" game. The game, classes, skills, and so on CANNOT continue to be redesigned every update without consequences. I'll play a little bit longer but if these changes go to our live game I have to say goodbye. There's no reason I or anyone else should have to re-roll all the time just to play. We shouldn't have to adapt to poor leadership and decision making.

That is exactly why I stopped playing several months back. The only reason I am showing interest in the game again now is because with the removal of the veteran system it will be easy to level up an alt in a class Zenimax doesn't hate >.>

STEVIL

Minalan wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

I play both a magicka sorc and stamina sorc.
The changes to Annulment are so great and basically make Conjured Ward obsolete, why not go all the way, and completely take this skill out of the game, and instead replace it with something creative and unique, something that will be able to morph into a stamina skill that will give stamina sorcs a decent edge.

I know it's not going to be a popular idea, but it just seems silly to keep Conjured Ward in the game after Annulment puts it to shame.

God please no. Annulment costs about 30% more magica than hardened, does not ward pets, is about 40% weaker in shieldstrengh when not using dampen magica with 7 light armor.

Hardened ward is still better than annulment / harness / dampen. Not by much but enough to matter.

post after post by sorcs cry "annulment totally trumps our ward now" until someone says "so just drop it for something useful and unique" then sorc start realizing "hey wait no ours is really better than annul"

Day 6 of playtest and the sun came up.

Harness still has more utility with the magicka return, and you can still cast it from hiding. The difference in strength isn't all that much: in PVP zones shields are halved, and then with points in bastion it's what, 1-2K?

The cost difference won't be all that noticeable when you get hit with a spell and absorb it. It'll only matter when repeat casting it to avoid a gank.

Sorry. Day six of the play test, and it still sucks.

So, before the changes, sorc #1 shield was their own ward. now, its divided opinion on which is better, annul or ward. Sounds like a positive move towards balance. Not yet "mission accomplished" but on the way.

Day six is looking better than ever.

Grao

STEVIL wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

I play both a magicka sorc and stamina sorc.
The changes to Annulment are so great and basically make Conjured Ward obsolete, why not go all the way, and completely take this skill out of the game, and instead replace it with something creative and unique, something that will be able to morph into a stamina skill that will give stamina sorcs a decent edge.

I know it's not going to be a popular idea, but it just seems silly to keep Conjured Ward in the game after Annulment puts it to shame.

God please no. Annulment costs about 30% more magica than hardened, does not ward pets, is about 40% weaker in shieldstrengh when not using dampen magica with 7 light armor.

Hardened ward is still better than annulment / harness / dampen. Not by much but enough to matter.

post after post by sorcs cry "annulment totally trumps our ward now" until someone says "so just drop it for something useful and unique" then sorc start realizing "hey wait no ours is really better than annul"

Day 6 of playtest and the sun came up.

Harness still has more utility with the magicka return, and you can still cast it from hiding. The difference in strength isn't all that much: in PVP zones shields are halved, and then with points in bastion it's what, 1-2K?

The cost difference won't be all that noticeable when you get hit with a spell and absorb it. It'll only matter when repeat casting it to avoid a gank.

Sorry. Day six of the play test, and it still sucks.

So, before the changes, sorc #1 shield was their own ward. now, its divided opinion on which is better, annul or ward. Sounds like a positive move towards balance. Not yet "mission accomplished" but on the way.

Day six is looking better than ever.

Oh really? When was it decided that the general spells are supposed to be better than class spells? Where are the equivalent for the best skills of the other classes that I can use? I really don't see them! Yes, ZoS's balance is looking wonderful!

I really miss the LOL button.

NBrookus

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

pet improvement suggestion
Scale off stamina or magica for all factors, use higher.
Pets Auto-proc heals if ANY pet or the caster is below 25% health. some cooldown
Add a Mass FRENZY option which is basically a large aoe taunt from a pet triggered by caster using some control set key combo or single key. Think like fear but in reverse.


IMO those three should really help turn pet use in almost any environment into a useful option

I would strongly consider replacing the ward with a major buff to both physic and mag resist for both caster and pets lasting 15-30sec.

then not so much reliant on shields.

giving pet taunt skills sounds like a awsome idea, fully support that bro, most other mmo's i play that use pets have a tank pet that generates loads of threat, and honestly if you see a massive daedric creature running at you, you are not going to go after the mage, the creature is the most immediate threat, this is of course using reality as logic, pvper's metagame by going after the sorcerer first

Clannfear does taunt or at least it used to taunt. The problem is, it has to be a pet skill we can control otherwise the pet will taunt stuff at the wrong time and the tank will murder the summoner of the pet.

oh i fully agree, and thats what i meant, srry for being unclear. To be wholly honest, the twilight skill should be changed to "heals itself and the caster" like the clanfear is now, and the clanfear should get the taunt, something that pulls everything near it toward the clanfear. Plus whatever nerf stopped the resto staff skills from targeting the summons needs to be removed


Edit: and for gods sake change the skins on the familiar summon, for gods sake i feel like a two-bit summoner with such low tier summons, clanfear and scamps are for hack apprentices, not battlehardened sorcerers. I want a freaking Daedroth or a dremora for the morphs

Actually, it is important that pets aren't healed by the healer's spells. Remember that heals in Raids are distributive and target those with lowest health, if your pet is targeted by it, your tank may not get healed and the raid will wipe. The ward we put on pets should work as a heal though... That was the suggestion we gave Zenimax about 8 months ago.

As for the skins, I agree the pets look lame and could be nicer, but I think they have to prioratize making the class work over making it pretty. Currently Sorcs are just not good. It is silly that a class known through out all MMOs as a high DPS output class has the worse DPS in registered in ESO both with stamina and Magicka builds.

good point on the raid thing

But the ward working as a heal for pets, i love that, thats a great suggestion, but should be just one morph, not work one both morphs

And yes, its irksome that we have such crap dps, they went with the class option in this game, so in my opinion the whole fight to perfectly balance seems stupid, all classes have their strenghts and weaknesses in most mmo's, you cant expect a support class to defeat a dps or tank, the whole point to mmo's and classes to to have you group up with other players to cover each others weaknesses, all this crying for balance is annoying, and against the spirit of a mmo with classes

I understand their wish to allow all the classes to do everything well...

The problem is that Sorcerers are a known DPS class, people that started this game playing sorcerers expected to play DPS and our damage output is lower than all the other classes. That is what I don't understand. We are also not great healers... So... Are sorcerers supposed to be tanks? >.>

Oh lordy, I just realized ZOS' grand scheme with the pet buffs and heavy armor nerfs... clanfears are supposed to tank dungeons and trials!

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Grao wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

I play both a magicka sorc and stamina sorc.
The changes to Annulment are so great and basically make Conjured Ward obsolete, why not go all the way, and completely take this skill out of the game, and instead replace it with something creative and unique, something that will be able to morph into a stamina skill that will give stamina sorcs a decent edge.

I know it's not going to be a popular idea, but it just seems silly to keep Conjured Ward in the game after Annulment puts it to shame.

God please no. Annulment costs about 30% more magica than hardened, does not ward pets, is about 40% weaker in shieldstrengh when not using dampen magica with 7 light armor.

Hardened ward is still better than annulment / harness / dampen. Not by much but enough to matter.

post after post by sorcs cry "annulment totally trumps our ward now" until someone says "so just drop it for something useful and unique" then sorc start realizing "hey wait no ours is really better than annul"

Day 6 of playtest and the sun came up.

Harness still has more utility with the magicka return, and you can still cast it from hiding. The difference in strength isn't all that much: in PVP zones shields are halved, and then with points in bastion it's what, 1-2K?

The cost difference won't be all that noticeable when you get hit with a spell and absorb it. It'll only matter when repeat casting it to avoid a gank.

Sorry. Day six of the play test, and it still sucks.

So, before the changes, sorc #1 shield was their own ward. now, its divided opinion on which is better, annul or ward. Sounds like a positive move towards balance. Not yet "mission accomplished" but on the way.

Day six is looking better than ever.

Oh really? When was it decided that the general spells are supposed to be better than class spells? Where are the equivalent for the best skills of the other classes that I can use? I really don't see them! Yes, ZoS's balance is looking wonderful!

I really miss the LOL button.

The classes should never be perfectly balanced, whats the point of classes if there are no true differences? When i play a sorcerer, i want to be different from a templar, i want to have things im good at, but things im bad at, and same for the other classes

I despise class balance, there is no flavor, no reason to play any of them

Grao

NBrookus wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

pet improvement suggestion
Scale off stamina or magica for all factors, use higher.
Pets Auto-proc heals if ANY pet or the caster is below 25% health. some cooldown
Add a Mass FRENZY option which is basically a large aoe taunt from a pet triggered by caster using some control set key combo or single key. Think like fear but in reverse.


IMO those three should really help turn pet use in almost any environment into a useful option

I would strongly consider replacing the ward with a major buff to both physic and mag resist for both caster and pets lasting 15-30sec.

then not so much reliant on shields.

giving pet taunt skills sounds like a awsome idea, fully support that bro, most other mmo's i play that use pets have a tank pet that generates loads of threat, and honestly if you see a massive daedric creature running at you, you are not going to go after the mage, the creature is the most immediate threat, this is of course using reality as logic, pvper's metagame by going after the sorcerer first

Clannfear does taunt or at least it used to taunt. The problem is, it has to be a pet skill we can control otherwise the pet will taunt stuff at the wrong time and the tank will murder the summoner of the pet.

oh i fully agree, and thats what i meant, srry for being unclear. To be wholly honest, the twilight skill should be changed to "heals itself and the caster" like the clanfear is now, and the clanfear should get the taunt, something that pulls everything near it toward the clanfear. Plus whatever nerf stopped the resto staff skills from targeting the summons needs to be removed


Edit: and for gods sake change the skins on the familiar summon, for gods sake i feel like a two-bit summoner with such low tier summons, clanfear and scamps are for hack apprentices, not battlehardened sorcerers. I want a freaking Daedroth or a dremora for the morphs

Actually, it is important that pets aren't healed by the healer's spells. Remember that heals in Raids are distributive and target those with lowest health, if your pet is targeted by it, your tank may not get healed and the raid will wipe. The ward we put on pets should work as a heal though... That was the suggestion we gave Zenimax about 8 months ago.

As for the skins, I agree the pets look lame and could be nicer, but I think they have to prioratize making the class work over making it pretty. Currently Sorcs are just not good. It is silly that a class known through out all MMOs as a high DPS output class has the worse DPS in registered in ESO both with stamina and Magicka builds.

good point on the raid thing

But the ward working as a heal for pets, i love that, thats a great suggestion, but should be just one morph, not work one both morphs

And yes, its irksome that we have such crap dps, they went with the class option in this game, so in my opinion the whole fight to perfectly balance seems stupid, all classes have their strenghts and weaknesses in most mmo's, you cant expect a support class to defeat a dps or tank, the whole point to mmo's and classes to to have you group up with other players to cover each others weaknesses, all this crying for balance is annoying, and against the spirit of a mmo with classes

I understand their wish to allow all the classes to do everything well...

The problem is that Sorcerers are a known DPS class, people that started this game playing sorcerers expected to play DPS and our damage output is lower than all the other classes. That is what I don't understand. We are also not great healers... So... Are sorcerers supposed to be tanks? >.>

Oh lordy, I just realized ZOS' grand scheme with the pet buffs and heavy armor nerfs... clanfears are supposed to tank dungeons and trials!

Would only work if we could actually control when the clannfear tanks. Would be fun to do, but I doubt it will ever happen.

STEVIL

Grao wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

I play both a magicka sorc and stamina sorc.
The changes to Annulment are so great and basically make Conjured Ward obsolete, why not go all the way, and completely take this skill out of the game, and instead replace it with something creative and unique, something that will be able to morph into a stamina skill that will give stamina sorcs a decent edge.

I know it's not going to be a popular idea, but it just seems silly to keep Conjured Ward in the game after Annulment puts it to shame.

God please no. Annulment costs about 30% more magica than hardened, does not ward pets, is about 40% weaker in shieldstrengh when not using dampen magica with 7 light armor.

Hardened ward is still better than annulment / harness / dampen. Not by much but enough to matter.

post after post by sorcs cry "annulment totally trumps our ward now" until someone says "so just drop it for something useful and unique" then sorc start realizing "hey wait no ours is really better than annul"

Day 6 of playtest and the sun came up.

Harness still has more utility with the magicka return, and you can still cast it from hiding. The difference in strength isn't all that much: in PVP zones shields are halved, and then with points in bastion it's what, 1-2K?

The cost difference won't be all that noticeable when you get hit with a spell and absorb it. It'll only matter when repeat casting it to avoid a gank.

Sorry. Day six of the play test, and it still sucks.

So, before the changes, sorc #1 shield was their own ward. now, its divided opinion on which is better, annul or ward. Sounds like a positive move towards balance. Not yet "mission accomplished" but on the way.

Day six is looking better than ever.

Oh really? When was it decided that the general spells are supposed to be better than class spells? Where are the equivalent for the best skills of the other classes that I can use? I really don't see them! Yes, ZoS's balance is looking wonderful!

I really miss the LOL button.

Wait? What? Are we back to the annul morph being better rather than maybe better or maybe worse depending on the perspective and experiences or goals?

Amazing how fast it shifts.

Quite dynamic.

Cool.

Grao

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

I play both a magicka sorc and stamina sorc.
The changes to Annulment are so great and basically make Conjured Ward obsolete, why not go all the way, and completely take this skill out of the game, and instead replace it with something creative and unique, something that will be able to morph into a stamina skill that will give stamina sorcs a decent edge.

I know it's not going to be a popular idea, but it just seems silly to keep Conjured Ward in the game after Annulment puts it to shame.

God please no. Annulment costs about 30% more magica than hardened, does not ward pets, is about 40% weaker in shieldstrengh when not using dampen magica with 7 light armor.

Hardened ward is still better than annulment / harness / dampen. Not by much but enough to matter.

post after post by sorcs cry "annulment totally trumps our ward now" until someone says "so just drop it for something useful and unique" then sorc start realizing "hey wait no ours is really better than annul"

Day 6 of playtest and the sun came up.

Harness still has more utility with the magicka return, and you can still cast it from hiding. The difference in strength isn't all that much: in PVP zones shields are halved, and then with points in bastion it's what, 1-2K?

The cost difference won't be all that noticeable when you get hit with a spell and absorb it. It'll only matter when repeat casting it to avoid a gank.

Sorry. Day six of the play test, and it still sucks.

So, before the changes, sorc #1 shield was their own ward. now, its divided opinion on which is better, annul or ward. Sounds like a positive move towards balance. Not yet "mission accomplished" but on the way.

Day six is looking better than ever.

Oh really? When was it decided that the general spells are supposed to be better than class spells? Where are the equivalent for the best skills of the other classes that I can use? I really don't see them! Yes, ZoS's balance is looking wonderful!

I really miss the LOL button.

The classes should never be perfectly balanced, whats the point of classes if there are no true differences? When i play a sorcerer, i want to be different from a templar, i want to have things im good at, but things im bad at, and same for the other classes

I despise class balance, there is no flavor, no reason to play any of them

I am fine with every class being viable for every roll, but that doesn't mean every class should achieve the exact same results. I do believe certain classes should be the best in certain roles; DKs should be the best tanks, Templars should be the best healers, sorcs should be the best magika dps and nightblades should be the best stamina DPS.

Unfortunately ZoS is making a mess of that and thanks to all the complains coming from PvP sorcerers are currently the best at nothing and this new changes... I think they will only make things worse. Without shields Sorcerers can't tank, they will also suffer with DPS as we will be forced to lower our magicka pool to increase health or burn our resources to survive fights.

Grao

STEVIL wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

I play both a magicka sorc and stamina sorc.
The changes to Annulment are so great and basically make Conjured Ward obsolete, why not go all the way, and completely take this skill out of the game, and instead replace it with something creative and unique, something that will be able to morph into a stamina skill that will give stamina sorcs a decent edge.

I know it's not going to be a popular idea, but it just seems silly to keep Conjured Ward in the game after Annulment puts it to shame.

God please no. Annulment costs about 30% more magica than hardened, does not ward pets, is about 40% weaker in shieldstrengh when not using dampen magica with 7 light armor.

Hardened ward is still better than annulment / harness / dampen. Not by much but enough to matter.

post after post by sorcs cry "annulment totally trumps our ward now" until someone says "so just drop it for something useful and unique" then sorc start realizing "hey wait no ours is really better than annul"

Day 6 of playtest and the sun came up.

Harness still has more utility with the magicka return, and you can still cast it from hiding. The difference in strength isn't all that much: in PVP zones shields are halved, and then with points in bastion it's what, 1-2K?

The cost difference won't be all that noticeable when you get hit with a spell and absorb it. It'll only matter when repeat casting it to avoid a gank.

Sorry. Day six of the play test, and it still sucks.

So, before the changes, sorc #1 shield was their own ward. now, its divided opinion on which is better, annul or ward. Sounds like a positive move towards balance. Not yet "mission accomplished" but on the way.

Day six is looking better than ever.

Oh really? When was it decided that the general spells are supposed to be better than class spells? Where are the equivalent for the best skills of the other classes that I can use? I really don't see them! Yes, ZoS's balance is looking wonderful!

I really miss the LOL button.

Wait? What? Are we back to the annul morph being better rather than maybe better or maybe worse depending on the perspective and experiences or goals?

Amazing how fast it shifts.

Quite dynamic.

Cool.

Your posts make no sense. Are you sure you are really skooma free? ^^

STEVIL

Grao wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

I play both a magicka sorc and stamina sorc.
The changes to Annulment are so great and basically make Conjured Ward obsolete, why not go all the way, and completely take this skill out of the game, and instead replace it with something creative and unique, something that will be able to morph into a stamina skill that will give stamina sorcs a decent edge.

I know it's not going to be a popular idea, but it just seems silly to keep Conjured Ward in the game after Annulment puts it to shame.

God please no. Annulment costs about 30% more magica than hardened, does not ward pets, is about 40% weaker in shieldstrengh when not using dampen magica with 7 light armor.

Hardened ward is still better than annulment / harness / dampen. Not by much but enough to matter.

post after post by sorcs cry "annulment totally trumps our ward now" until someone says "so just drop it for something useful and unique" then sorc start realizing "hey wait no ours is really better than annul"

Day 6 of playtest and the sun came up.

Harness still has more utility with the magicka return, and you can still cast it from hiding. The difference in strength isn't all that much: in PVP zones shields are halved, and then with points in bastion it's what, 1-2K?

The cost difference won't be all that noticeable when you get hit with a spell and absorb it. It'll only matter when repeat casting it to avoid a gank.

Sorry. Day six of the play test, and it still sucks.

So, before the changes, sorc #1 shield was their own ward. now, its divided opinion on which is better, annul or ward. Sounds like a positive move towards balance. Not yet "mission accomplished" but on the way.

Day six is looking better than ever.

Oh really? When was it decided that the general spells are supposed to be better than class spells? Where are the equivalent for the best skills of the other classes that I can use? I really don't see them! Yes, ZoS's balance is looking wonderful!

I really miss the LOL button.

Wait? What? Are we back to the annul morph being better rather than maybe better or maybe worse depending on the perspective and experiences or goals?

Amazing how fast it shifts.

Quite dynamic.

Cool.

Your posts make no sense. Are you sure you are really skooma free? ^^

Quite certain.

Thanks for asking.

Hey!!!!

Day seven of playtest. Sunrise not yet confirmed.
Edge of seat tension permeates the atmosphere.
Maybe the ESO DB END OF DAYS folks are right.
Have to wait and see.

Meanehile, anyone got specs on the values for jewelry spell damage and jewelry spell resist glyphs in DB?

GRYM.LOCKE

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Again, my problem with sorcs is in PvE, PvP I believe the class is alright, actually, it is because of PvP that we so often are forced to swallow nerfs to our best spells.

Agreed

We pve'ers shouldnt be punished for a playstyle we do not use

Ive said this before and ill say it again

you cannot nerf/buff one style of the game and expect the other to be happy with it

i and many others like myself do not, will not, and cannot accept this change.

I am personally tired of having my character stats and skills changed because some pvp leetest decided to whine about it

BRAVO - i couldnt have said it better myself

its time ZOS realised that some/part/most of us dont give a rats ass about PVP and shouldnt be punished for people having e=*** contests etc etc

Derra

Grao wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Absorption Field - It would be interesting to have this spell's heal correlate to how much damage it prevents, thus justifying the name.

Suppression Field - This should be renamed and if the damage it does correlates to the damage it prevents, it would be very interesting.

Bound Armor: This ability and its morphs no longer permanently change your appearance when they are toggled on; instead, they now only display a brief visual effect when toggled on.

Instead of removing the visual, you could have made bound armor create a ghostly armor or maybe chest plate, bound aegis could make a ghostly shield and bound armaments could give the equipped weapon a special visual. It would be easier to keep track of the spell being active then.

Conjured Ward: Reduced the duration of this ability and the Hardened Ward morph to 6 seconds from 20 seconds.
Empowered Ward (Conjured Ward morph): Reduced the duration of this morph to 8 seconds from 20 seconds.

That you are reducing the duration of a shield to less than a third of its original duration without changing its cost or buffing its power or giving it additional properties is ridiculous.

Expert Summoner: Redesigned this passive ability so it now grants you 4/8% more maximum health whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.
This passive ability’s old bonuses are now baseline effects for your pets.

And still this passive only affects three abilities of this spell tree. Why doesn't bound armor and ward count as summons if they are in the summoning tree?

Thundering Presence (Lightning Form morph):
Renamed this morph to Hurricane.
Redesigned this morph so it now increases the size and damage of the periodic effect the longer it is active, increasing up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Shock Damage.

Nice, now make the other morph the exact same but for magika users and I will be happy about this. Movement speed increase is really not that useful when we have better spells for that.

Annulment: Reduced the duration of this ability and its morphs to 6 seconds from 20 seconds. In addition, this ability and its morphs now absorb all damage instead of just spell damage.
Note: The Harness Magicka morph will continue to return Magicka only when spell damage is absorbed as a morph effect.

Well, at least you gave this ability some additional power to compensate the heavy nerf to its duration. Why is it that Ward is not getting some buff to compensate its nerf again?

Thaumaturge: Fixed an issue where this Champion ability was increasing the damage of various non-damage over time effects, such as Daedric Curse or Magicka Detonation.
Known Issue: Currently, Thaumaturge is still increasing the tooltip values of those abilities. This will be fixed in a future PTS patch.

Now, I know this is supposedly a bug, but yay, more nerfs to our DPS! Woot. Interesting thing is, you always knew this sorcerer abilities were activating this buff, we reported this when the champion system first came out! We were told that because this ability did take time to detonate it was counted as a DoT... Apparently you guys are going back on that, cool... Stealthy nerfs - Love those


MEANWHILE, THE USELESS STUFF

Rebate (Passive) - Still only affects 3 abilities out of 6 in the tree
Expert Summoner - Wasn't Great, now it is useless, only works for pet builds.

Dark Exchange - Seriously, when are you guys going to buff this? >.>
Daedric Mines - Doesn't even belong in the Tree it is on. It is that bad it is on the wrong section >.> (It summons Daedric Mines and you have a spell tree called Daedric Summoning. Guess where this ability belongs!)
Persistence (Passive) - If only we used the very few abilities affected by this passive.

Overload - Ok, I know this ult is not useless, but I am putting it here cause I am not sure if ZoS ever bothered to fix the bug that keeps getting this spell stuck in heavy attack mode.

Lighting Form - Cool ,you guys finally realized we want to use this as DPS increase, not as a shield... Now do the same for Magika sorcery. Speed buff has nothing on damage and range increase.

Boundless storm is extremely useful with the speed buff. When a tank loses a boss, or half a dozen adds rush you, or you lose range on the healer, it lets you reposition quickly in a fight. It lasts about as long as you need it to.

I am sorry, mostly what I am hearing in your post is "The speed buff is useful when you make mistakes". I think spells should be useful even if you don't make mistakes. There are better spells that give speed buffs, namely Rapid Maneuver.

The speedbuff on boundless storm is about the only reason why i slot that spell.

Rapid can´t be compared simply because it costs stamina which does not come in handy on a magica build when playing pvp.

Grao

Derra wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Absorption Field - It would be interesting to have this spell's heal correlate to how much damage it prevents, thus justifying the name.

Suppression Field - This should be renamed and if the damage it does correlates to the damage it prevents, it would be very interesting.

Bound Armor: This ability and its morphs no longer permanently change your appearance when they are toggled on; instead, they now only display a brief visual effect when toggled on.

Instead of removing the visual, you could have made bound armor create a ghostly armor or maybe chest plate, bound aegis could make a ghostly shield and bound armaments could give the equipped weapon a special visual. It would be easier to keep track of the spell being active then.

Conjured Ward: Reduced the duration of this ability and the Hardened Ward morph to 6 seconds from 20 seconds.
Empowered Ward (Conjured Ward morph): Reduced the duration of this morph to 8 seconds from 20 seconds.

That you are reducing the duration of a shield to less than a third of its original duration without changing its cost or buffing its power or giving it additional properties is ridiculous.

Expert Summoner: Redesigned this passive ability so it now grants you 4/8% more maximum health whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.
This passive ability’s old bonuses are now baseline effects for your pets.

And still this passive only affects three abilities of this spell tree. Why doesn't bound armor and ward count as summons if they are in the summoning tree?

Thundering Presence (Lightning Form morph):
Renamed this morph to Hurricane.
Redesigned this morph so it now increases the size and damage of the periodic effect the longer it is active, increasing up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Shock Damage.

Nice, now make the other morph the exact same but for magika users and I will be happy about this. Movement speed increase is really not that useful when we have better spells for that.

Annulment: Reduced the duration of this ability and its morphs to 6 seconds from 20 seconds. In addition, this ability and its morphs now absorb all damage instead of just spell damage.
Note: The Harness Magicka morph will continue to return Magicka only when spell damage is absorbed as a morph effect.

Well, at least you gave this ability some additional power to compensate the heavy nerf to its duration. Why is it that Ward is not getting some buff to compensate its nerf again?

Thaumaturge: Fixed an issue where this Champion ability was increasing the damage of various non-damage over time effects, such as Daedric Curse or Magicka Detonation.
Known Issue: Currently, Thaumaturge is still increasing the tooltip values of those abilities. This will be fixed in a future PTS patch.

Now, I know this is supposedly a bug, but yay, more nerfs to our DPS! Woot. Interesting thing is, you always knew this sorcerer abilities were activating this buff, we reported this when the champion system first came out! We were told that because this ability did take time to detonate it was counted as a DoT... Apparently you guys are going back on that, cool... Stealthy nerfs - Love those


MEANWHILE, THE USELESS STUFF

Rebate (Passive) - Still only affects 3 abilities out of 6 in the tree
Expert Summoner - Wasn't Great, now it is useless, only works for pet builds.

Dark Exchange - Seriously, when are you guys going to buff this? >.>
Daedric Mines - Doesn't even belong in the Tree it is on. It is that bad it is on the wrong section >.> (It summons Daedric Mines and you have a spell tree called Daedric Summoning. Guess where this ability belongs!)
Persistence (Passive) - If only we used the very few abilities affected by this passive.

Overload - Ok, I know this ult is not useless, but I am putting it here cause I am not sure if ZoS ever bothered to fix the bug that keeps getting this spell stuck in heavy attack mode.

Lighting Form - Cool ,you guys finally realized we want to use this as DPS increase, not as a shield... Now do the same for Magika sorcery. Speed buff has nothing on damage and range increase.

Boundless storm is extremely useful with the speed buff. When a tank loses a boss, or half a dozen adds rush you, or you lose range on the healer, it lets you reposition quickly in a fight. It lasts about as long as you need it to.

I am sorry, mostly what I am hearing in your post is "The speed buff is useful when you make mistakes". I think spells should be useful even if you don't make mistakes. There are better spells that give speed buffs, namely Rapid Maneuver.

The speedbuff on boundless storm is about the only reason why i slot that spell.

Rapid can´t be compared simply because it costs stamina which does not come in handy on a magica build when playing pvp.

Again PvP... I am talking about PvE, it is about time you guys endured some nerfs so Sorcerers could work in PvE since the class keeps getting nerf after nerf because of how it goes in PvP.

Derra

Grao wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Absorption Field - It would be interesting to have this spell's heal correlate to how much damage it prevents, thus justifying the name.

Suppression Field - This should be renamed and if the damage it does correlates to the damage it prevents, it would be very interesting.

Bound Armor: This ability and its morphs no longer permanently change your appearance when they are toggled on; instead, they now only display a brief visual effect when toggled on.

Instead of removing the visual, you could have made bound armor create a ghostly armor or maybe chest plate, bound aegis could make a ghostly shield and bound armaments could give the equipped weapon a special visual. It would be easier to keep track of the spell being active then.

Conjured Ward: Reduced the duration of this ability and the Hardened Ward morph to 6 seconds from 20 seconds.
Empowered Ward (Conjured Ward morph): Reduced the duration of this morph to 8 seconds from 20 seconds.

That you are reducing the duration of a shield to less than a third of its original duration without changing its cost or buffing its power or giving it additional properties is ridiculous.

Expert Summoner: Redesigned this passive ability so it now grants you 4/8% more maximum health whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.
This passive ability’s old bonuses are now baseline effects for your pets.

And still this passive only affects three abilities of this spell tree. Why doesn't bound armor and ward count as summons if they are in the summoning tree?

Thundering Presence (Lightning Form morph):
Renamed this morph to Hurricane.
Redesigned this morph so it now increases the size and damage of the periodic effect the longer it is active, increasing up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Shock Damage.

Nice, now make the other morph the exact same but for magika users and I will be happy about this. Movement speed increase is really not that useful when we have better spells for that.

Annulment: Reduced the duration of this ability and its morphs to 6 seconds from 20 seconds. In addition, this ability and its morphs now absorb all damage instead of just spell damage.
Note: The Harness Magicka morph will continue to return Magicka only when spell damage is absorbed as a morph effect.

Well, at least you gave this ability some additional power to compensate the heavy nerf to its duration. Why is it that Ward is not getting some buff to compensate its nerf again?

Thaumaturge: Fixed an issue where this Champion ability was increasing the damage of various non-damage over time effects, such as Daedric Curse or Magicka Detonation.
Known Issue: Currently, Thaumaturge is still increasing the tooltip values of those abilities. This will be fixed in a future PTS patch.

Now, I know this is supposedly a bug, but yay, more nerfs to our DPS! Woot. Interesting thing is, you always knew this sorcerer abilities were activating this buff, we reported this when the champion system first came out! We were told that because this ability did take time to detonate it was counted as a DoT... Apparently you guys are going back on that, cool... Stealthy nerfs - Love those


MEANWHILE, THE USELESS STUFF

Rebate (Passive) - Still only affects 3 abilities out of 6 in the tree
Expert Summoner - Wasn't Great, now it is useless, only works for pet builds.

Dark Exchange - Seriously, when are you guys going to buff this? >.>
Daedric Mines - Doesn't even belong in the Tree it is on. It is that bad it is on the wrong section >.> (It summons Daedric Mines and you have a spell tree called Daedric Summoning. Guess where this ability belongs!)
Persistence (Passive) - If only we used the very few abilities affected by this passive.

Overload - Ok, I know this ult is not useless, but I am putting it here cause I am not sure if ZoS ever bothered to fix the bug that keeps getting this spell stuck in heavy attack mode.

Lighting Form - Cool ,you guys finally realized we want to use this as DPS increase, not as a shield... Now do the same for Magika sorcery. Speed buff has nothing on damage and range increase.

Boundless storm is extremely useful with the speed buff. When a tank loses a boss, or half a dozen adds rush you, or you lose range on the healer, it lets you reposition quickly in a fight. It lasts about as long as you need it to.

I am sorry, mostly what I am hearing in your post is "The speed buff is useful when you make mistakes". I think spells should be useful even if you don't make mistakes. There are better spells that give speed buffs, namely Rapid Maneuver.

The speedbuff on boundless storm is about the only reason why i slot that spell.

Rapid can´t be compared simply because it costs stamina which does not come in handy on a magica build when playing pvp.

Again PvP... I am talking about PvE, it is about time you guys endured some nerfs so Sorcerers could work in PvE since the class keeps getting nerf after nerf because of how it goes in PvP.

Oh even in PvE I slot it for the speed buff when i´m doing vMSA. I would not think about slotting rapid there because guess what - you don´t keep that speedbuff when attacking.
So basically you´re asking for every kind of sorcplay to be nerfed in favor of raiding (as that´s about the only thing where your with is desireable). But stormarmor is already a semi useful spell to slot there. Could the range be increased? Probably - the dmg is fine for it´s duration.

I´m also pretty sure the latest shield change was 30% a pvp nerf and 70% a pve nerf bc of how powerful 20s shields were in competetive solo content.
While in pvp when attacking a sorc constantly shielding nothing will change. They even got stronger defensive wise.

Imo Sorc should be an all around well build class for PvE and PvP. This PvP vs PvE crap gets old. I actually like to do both. How about getting a little creative and thinking about solutions that work without breaking one or the other?
Or not taking away/changing the few good spells sorc has everyone uses?
Come up with ideas for Pets, Mines, Encase, Darkexchange, Curse to make them vaible. Sorc has so many spells that are absolutely useless and the best you can come up with is changing an actually useful spell to be more niche in it´s application? You should be better than that.

Bofrari

Archmage1 wrote: »

@ZOS, seriously?? Can't you guys do incremental changes?! This is absolutely ridiculous. 6sec shield NERF which is a class ability. PLUS, you basically give every other class a hardened ward. I have been on the fence with this game and my subscription for a while now ...this DLC has made the decision for me. I am done with ESO.

Man you have no idea how many people feel the exact same way if this bs change goes live I'm out too and I don't even have a sorc I use harness on my Templar and 6 secs is just pathetic.

Bofrari

Bfish22090 wrote: »

The sorcerer is the most over-nerfed and useless class in pvp when DB comes around
The nerfs keep coming!
Sorcs have nothing left after the shield nerf.

@XEVENEX we can't let this change go live

I'm completely agree but it don't just screw sorcs all classes will be affected by this pathetic change.

Grao

Derra wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Absorption Field - It would be interesting to have this spell's heal correlate to how much damage it prevents, thus justifying the name.

Suppression Field - This should be renamed and if the damage it does correlates to the damage it prevents, it would be very interesting.

Bound Armor: This ability and its morphs no longer permanently change your appearance when they are toggled on; instead, they now only display a brief visual effect when toggled on.

Instead of removing the visual, you could have made bound armor create a ghostly armor or maybe chest plate, bound aegis could make a ghostly shield and bound armaments could give the equipped weapon a special visual. It would be easier to keep track of the spell being active then.

Conjured Ward: Reduced the duration of this ability and the Hardened Ward morph to 6 seconds from 20 seconds.
Empowered Ward (Conjured Ward morph): Reduced the duration of this morph to 8 seconds from 20 seconds.

That you are reducing the duration of a shield to less than a third of its original duration without changing its cost or buffing its power or giving it additional properties is ridiculous.

Expert Summoner: Redesigned this passive ability so it now grants you 4/8% more maximum health whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.
This passive ability’s old bonuses are now baseline effects for your pets.

And still this passive only affects three abilities of this spell tree. Why doesn't bound armor and ward count as summons if they are in the summoning tree?

Thundering Presence (Lightning Form morph):
Renamed this morph to Hurricane.
Redesigned this morph so it now increases the size and damage of the periodic effect the longer it is active, increasing up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Shock Damage.

Nice, now make the other morph the exact same but for magika users and I will be happy about this. Movement speed increase is really not that useful when we have better spells for that.

Annulment: Reduced the duration of this ability and its morphs to 6 seconds from 20 seconds. In addition, this ability and its morphs now absorb all damage instead of just spell damage.
Note: The Harness Magicka morph will continue to return Magicka only when spell damage is absorbed as a morph effect.

Well, at least you gave this ability some additional power to compensate the heavy nerf to its duration. Why is it that Ward is not getting some buff to compensate its nerf again?

Thaumaturge: Fixed an issue where this Champion ability was increasing the damage of various non-damage over time effects, such as Daedric Curse or Magicka Detonation.
Known Issue: Currently, Thaumaturge is still increasing the tooltip values of those abilities. This will be fixed in a future PTS patch.

Now, I know this is supposedly a bug, but yay, more nerfs to our DPS! Woot. Interesting thing is, you always knew this sorcerer abilities were activating this buff, we reported this when the champion system first came out! We were told that because this ability did take time to detonate it was counted as a DoT... Apparently you guys are going back on that, cool... Stealthy nerfs - Love those


MEANWHILE, THE USELESS STUFF

Rebate (Passive) - Still only affects 3 abilities out of 6 in the tree
Expert Summoner - Wasn't Great, now it is useless, only works for pet builds.

Dark Exchange - Seriously, when are you guys going to buff this? >.>
Daedric Mines - Doesn't even belong in the Tree it is on. It is that bad it is on the wrong section >.> (It summons Daedric Mines and you have a spell tree called Daedric Summoning. Guess where this ability belongs!)
Persistence (Passive) - If only we used the very few abilities affected by this passive.

Overload - Ok, I know this ult is not useless, but I am putting it here cause I am not sure if ZoS ever bothered to fix the bug that keeps getting this spell stuck in heavy attack mode.

Lighting Form - Cool ,you guys finally realized we want to use this as DPS increase, not as a shield... Now do the same for Magika sorcery. Speed buff has nothing on damage and range increase.

Boundless storm is extremely useful with the speed buff. When a tank loses a boss, or half a dozen adds rush you, or you lose range on the healer, it lets you reposition quickly in a fight. It lasts about as long as you need it to.

I am sorry, mostly what I am hearing in your post is "The speed buff is useful when you make mistakes". I think spells should be useful even if you don't make mistakes. There are better spells that give speed buffs, namely Rapid Maneuver.

The speedbuff on boundless storm is about the only reason why i slot that spell.

Rapid can´t be compared simply because it costs stamina which does not come in handy on a magica build when playing pvp.

Again PvP... I am talking about PvE, it is about time you guys endured some nerfs so Sorcerers could work in PvE since the class keeps getting nerf after nerf because of how it goes in PvP.

Oh even in PvE I slot it for the speed buff when i´m doing vMSA. I would not think about slotting rapid there because guess what - you don´t keep that speedbuff when attacking.
So basically you´re asking for every kind of sorcplay to be nerfed in favor of raiding (as that´s about the only thing where your with is desireable). But stormarmor is already a semi useful spell to slot there. Could the range be increased? Probably - the dmg is fine for it´s duration.

I´m also pretty sure the latest shield change was 30% a pvp nerf and 70% a pve nerf bc of how powerful 20s shields were in competetive solo content.
While in pvp when attacking a sorc constantly shielding nothing will change. They even got stronger defensive wise.

Imo Sorc should be an all around well build class for PvE and PvP. This PvP vs PvE crap gets old. I actually like to do both. How about getting a little creative and thinking about solutions that work without breaking one or the other?
Or not taking away/changing the few good spells sorc has everyone uses?
Come up with ideas for Pets, Mines, Encase, Darkexchange, Curse to make them vaible. Sorc has so many spells that are absolutely useless and the best you can come up with is changing an actually useful spell to be more niche in it´s application? You should be better than that.

MSA is just one of the PvE trials/ Arenas. Don't you think having the spell as a stronger AoE would be more useful than having a little bit more speed for 3 seconds?

And I am sorry, but the shield was only a problem in PvP, monster don't whine that they can't kill sorcerers, PvPers do. Believe me, I don't want to stack shields on my bar when I am raiding, but using the shield to gain extra health is pretty much the only way to keep Sorcerer Magika DPS competitive. You lower your health considerably and use the shield to compensate allowing you to spend more points in your mana pool, increasing general DPS. That is now impossible, or you will burn your mana by trying to shield your self or you will have to increase your health considerably and thus lose a considerable chunck of DPS.

Yes, I believe all classes should be balanced for PvE and PvP, unfortunately ZoS has proved again and again they are simply too incompetent to balance both or too unwilling to change a skill to actually make it work instead of simply nerfing it to the ground. Every new significant patch sorcerers are hit with one huge nerf that completely changes the class play style for PvE because the ability was getting whined at by the PvPers. We had Bolt Escaped nerfed because sorcs were just blinking all over the battle field and PvPers didnt like that (then again, wasn't that useful of a skill in PvE). Negate on the other hand was an amazing skill for PvE and it got nerfed to the ground because PvP was QQing to no end about it. As a result Sorcs were for a long while the one class without a utility ult. seems they are buffing it now, hopefully significantly. And now ward is getting bashed to pieces with a duration nerf of about 70%. 70%!!! And yes, it is because of PvP... PvPer complaining and whining they can't kill sorcs in PvP because they stack two or three shields and keep refreshing them...

Also... Really? You think the PvE solution for Sorcerers should be pets? They are freaking boring, each one takes two spell slots because they are stupid toggles and you have nearly no control over the damn things! You can';t tell them when to use their abilities, half of which only activate when they die, summoning them takes too long, costs too much mana and it is just plain boring! You sit there, watch your pets attack the enemy while praying to the gods that they don't step in crap and kill your entire raid or them selves, you try shielding them, but there is no way to heal them so... Can't even do that... Not to mention to make pet builds viable, you also need two other toggles on your bar to increase your mana pool because they are not affected by spell power, just magicka! So... 4 toggles, that is 8 of the 10 spell slots... Yeah, it will be super fun fighting with such an awesome build.

And for you to suggest Dark Exchange should ever be slotted... For that you deserved the LOL button >.> That ability should be banished and completely redesigned.

Ahzek

Grao wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Absorption Field - It would be interesting to have this spell's heal correlate to how much damage it prevents, thus justifying the name.

Suppression Field - This should be renamed and if the damage it does correlates to the damage it prevents, it would be very interesting.

Bound Armor: This ability and its morphs no longer permanently change your appearance when they are toggled on; instead, they now only display a brief visual effect when toggled on.

Instead of removing the visual, you could have made bound armor create a ghostly armor or maybe chest plate, bound aegis could make a ghostly shield and bound armaments could give the equipped weapon a special visual. It would be easier to keep track of the spell being active then.

Conjured Ward: Reduced the duration of this ability and the Hardened Ward morph to 6 seconds from 20 seconds.
Empowered Ward (Conjured Ward morph): Reduced the duration of this morph to 8 seconds from 20 seconds.

That you are reducing the duration of a shield to less than a third of its original duration without changing its cost or buffing its power or giving it additional properties is ridiculous.

Expert Summoner: Redesigned this passive ability so it now grants you 4/8% more maximum health whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.
This passive ability’s old bonuses are now baseline effects for your pets.

And still this passive only affects three abilities of this spell tree. Why doesn't bound armor and ward count as summons if they are in the summoning tree?

Thundering Presence (Lightning Form morph):
Renamed this morph to Hurricane.
Redesigned this morph so it now increases the size and damage of the periodic effect the longer it is active, increasing up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Shock Damage.

Nice, now make the other morph the exact same but for magika users and I will be happy about this. Movement speed increase is really not that useful when we have better spells for that.

Annulment: Reduced the duration of this ability and its morphs to 6 seconds from 20 seconds. In addition, this ability and its morphs now absorb all damage instead of just spell damage.
Note: The Harness Magicka morph will continue to return Magicka only when spell damage is absorbed as a morph effect.

Well, at least you gave this ability some additional power to compensate the heavy nerf to its duration. Why is it that Ward is not getting some buff to compensate its nerf again?

Thaumaturge: Fixed an issue where this Champion ability was increasing the damage of various non-damage over time effects, such as Daedric Curse or Magicka Detonation.
Known Issue: Currently, Thaumaturge is still increasing the tooltip values of those abilities. This will be fixed in a future PTS patch.

Now, I know this is supposedly a bug, but yay, more nerfs to our DPS! Woot. Interesting thing is, you always knew this sorcerer abilities were activating this buff, we reported this when the champion system first came out! We were told that because this ability did take time to detonate it was counted as a DoT... Apparently you guys are going back on that, cool... Stealthy nerfs - Love those


MEANWHILE, THE USELESS STUFF

Rebate (Passive) - Still only affects 3 abilities out of 6 in the tree
Expert Summoner - Wasn't Great, now it is useless, only works for pet builds.

Dark Exchange - Seriously, when are you guys going to buff this? >.>
Daedric Mines - Doesn't even belong in the Tree it is on. It is that bad it is on the wrong section >.> (It summons Daedric Mines and you have a spell tree called Daedric Summoning. Guess where this ability belongs!)
Persistence (Passive) - If only we used the very few abilities affected by this passive.

Overload - Ok, I know this ult is not useless, but I am putting it here cause I am not sure if ZoS ever bothered to fix the bug that keeps getting this spell stuck in heavy attack mode.

Lighting Form - Cool ,you guys finally realized we want to use this as DPS increase, not as a shield... Now do the same for Magika sorcery. Speed buff has nothing on damage and range increase.

Boundless storm is extremely useful with the speed buff. When a tank loses a boss, or half a dozen adds rush you, or you lose range on the healer, it lets you reposition quickly in a fight. It lasts about as long as you need it to.

I am sorry, mostly what I am hearing in your post is "The speed buff is useful when you make mistakes". I think spells should be useful even if you don't make mistakes. There are better spells that give speed buffs, namely Rapid Maneuver.

The speedbuff on boundless storm is about the only reason why i slot that spell.

Rapid can´t be compared simply because it costs stamina which does not come in handy on a magica build when playing pvp.

Again PvP... I am talking about PvE, it is about time you guys endured some nerfs so Sorcerers could work in PvE since the class keeps getting nerf after nerf because of how it goes in PvP.

Oh even in PvE I slot it for the speed buff when i´m doing vMSA. I would not think about slotting rapid there because guess what - you don´t keep that speedbuff when attacking.
So basically you´re asking for every kind of sorcplay to be nerfed in favor of raiding (as that´s about the only thing where your with is desireable). But stormarmor is already a semi useful spell to slot there. Could the range be increased? Probably - the dmg is fine for it´s duration.

I´m also pretty sure the latest shield change was 30% a pvp nerf and 70% a pve nerf bc of how powerful 20s shields were in competetive solo content.
While in pvp when attacking a sorc constantly shielding nothing will change. They even got stronger defensive wise.

Imo Sorc should be an all around well build class for PvE and PvP. This PvP vs PvE crap gets old. I actually like to do both. How about getting a little creative and thinking about solutions that work without breaking one or the other?
Or not taking away/changing the few good spells sorc has everyone uses?
Come up with ideas for Pets, Mines, Encase, Darkexchange, Curse to make them vaible. Sorc has so many spells that are absolutely useless and the best you can come up with is changing an actually useful spell to be more niche in it´s application? You should be better than that.

MSA is just one of the PvE trials/ Arenas. Don't you think having the spell as a stronger AoE would be more useful than having a little bit more speed for 3 seconds?

And I am sorry, but the shield was only a problem in PvP, monster don't whine that they can't kill sorcerers, PvPers do. Believe me, I don't want to stack shields on my bar when I am raiding, but using the shield to gain extra health is pretty much the only way to keep Sorcerer Magika DPS competitive. You lower your health considerably and use the shield to compensate allowing you to spend more points in your mana pool, increasing general DPS. That is now impossible, or you will burn your mana by trying to shield your self or you will have to increase your health considerably and thus lose a considerable chunck of DPS.

Yes, I believe all classes should be balanced for PvE and PvP, unfortunately ZoS has proved again and again they are simply too incompetent to balance both or too unwilling to change a skill to actually make it work instead of simply nerfing it to the ground. Every new significant patch sorcerers are hit with one huge nerf that completely changes the class play style for PvE because the ability was getting whined at by the PvPers. We had Bolt Escaped nerfed because sorcs were just blinking all over the battle field and PvPers didnt like that (then again, wasn't that useful of a skill in PvE). Negate on the other hand was an amazing skill for PvE and it got nerfed to the ground because PvP was QQing to no end about it. As a result Sorcs were for a long while the one class without a utility ult. seems they are buffing it now, hopefully significantly. And now ward is getting bashed to pieces with a duration nerf of about 70%. 70%!!! And yes, it is because of PvP... PvPer complaining and whining they can't kill sorcs in PvP because they stack two or three shields and keep refreshing them...

Also... Really? You think the PvE solution for Sorcerers should be pets? They are freaking boring, each one takes two spell slots because they are stupid toggles and you have nearly no control over the damn things! You can';t tell them when to use their abilities, half of which only activate when they die, summoning them takes too long, costs too much mana and it is just plain boring! You sit there, watch your pets attack the enemy while praying to the gods that they don't step in crap and kill your entire raid or them selves, you try shielding them, but there is no way to heal them so... Can't even do that... Not to mention to make pet builds viable, you also need two other toggles on your bar to increase your mana pool because they are not affected by spell power, just magicka! So... 4 toggles, that is 8 of the 10 spell slots... Yeah, it will be super fun fighting with such an awesome build.

And for you to suggest Dark Exchange should ever be slotted... For that you deserved the LOL button >.> That ability should be banished and completely redesigned.

For this statement YOU deserve the lol button. He did not imply you should slot dark exchange at the moment, but rather that you could come up with useful ideas to make it a viable spell instead of trying to ruin a really useful one. Give us some examples how you would "compeltely redesign" the skill for maybe ?

Derra

Grao wrote: »

MSA is just one of the PvE trials/ Arenas. Don't you think having the spell as a stronger AoE would be more useful than having a little bit more speed for 3 seconds?

And I am sorry, but the shield was only a problem in PvP, monster don't whine that they can't kill sorcerers, PvPers do. Believe me, I don't want to stack shields on my bar when I am raiding, but using the shield to gain extra health is pretty much the only way to keep Sorcerer Magika DPS competitive. You lower your health considerably and use the shield to compensate allowing you to spend more points in your mana pool, increasing general DPS. That is now impossible, or you will burn your mana by trying to shield your self or you will have to increase your health considerably and thus lose a considerable chunck of DPS.

Yes, I believe all classes should be balanced for PvE and PvP, unfortunately ZoS has proved again and again they are simply too incompetent to balance both or too unwilling to change a skill to actually make it work instead of simply nerfing it to the ground. Every new significant patch sorcerers are hit with one huge nerf that completely changes the class play style for PvE because the ability was getting whined at by the PvPers. We had Bolt Escaped nerfed because sorcs were just blinking all over the battle field and PvPers didnt like that (then again, wasn't that useful of a skill in PvE). Negate on the other hand was an amazing skill for PvE and it got nerfed to the ground because PvP was QQing to no end about it. As a result Sorcs were for a long while the one class without a utility ult. seems they are buffing it now, hopefully significantly. And now ward is getting bashed to pieces with a duration nerf of about 70%. 70%!!! And yes, it is because of PvP... PvPer complaining and whining they can't kill sorcs in PvP because they stack two or three shields and keep refreshing them...

Also... Really? You think the PvE solution for Sorcerers should be pets? They are freaking boring, each one takes two spell slots because they are stupid toggles and you have nearly no control over the damn things! You can';t tell them when to use their abilities, half of which only activate when they die, summoning them takes too long, costs too much mana and it is just plain boring! You sit there, watch your pets attack the enemy while praying to the gods that they don't step in crap and kill your entire raid or them selves, you try shielding them, but there is no way to heal them so... Can't even do that... Not to mention to make pet builds viable, you also need two other toggles on your bar to increase your mana pool because they are not affected by spell power, just magicka! So... 4 toggles, that is 8 of the 10 spell slots... Yeah, it will be super fun fighting with such an awesome build.

And for you to suggest Dark Exchange should ever be slotted... For that you deserved the LOL button >.> That ability should be banished and completely redesigned.

First bolded part: It´s 7.5s which makes it highly useful (as it´s the only magica speedbuff available to the sorcerer). The dmg isn´t needed because it´s better to avoid melee attacks with the speed provided while killing ranged NPCs.

The change to shields does nothing when it comes to actually killing a sorcerer in pvp. So either ZOS is too stupid to realize their change won´t have the desired effect or you´re wrong. I´d give this a 50:50 chance.

Second bolded part: That´s exactly what i mean. Your thinking absolutely one dimensional. You say it yourself all these abilities are currently absolutely useless and boring. Yet instead of coming up with something creative to make those useful and desireable you want to change a skill that´s actually useful in the sorcerers arsenal just to fit your personal needs a little more. All that while telling me how useless and boring those abilities are. Uncreative and selfish.

How about giving one of each pet morphs a functionality like NB shades but instead of being utility make them a strong dot (15s duration no toggle) and make them scale with magica and spelldmg (or stamina and weapondmg because stamsorcs and the awesome hunt set).
How about making dark exchance a mana/stamina leech dot that also dmges the target.
How about making a rearming mine morph that you can place under bosses for sustained DPS.
How about making the pet curse morph into an actual dmg over time spell that buffs magic dmg on the target for it´s duration (raidbuff).
Give bound armor the same treatment as magelight (though it would still be debateable).

No better rework one of the spells almost every sorc uses... Wow...

Grao

Ahzek wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Absorption Field - It would be interesting to have this spell's heal correlate to how much damage it prevents, thus justifying the name.

Suppression Field - This should be renamed and if the damage it does correlates to the damage it prevents, it would be very interesting.

Bound Armor: This ability and its morphs no longer permanently change your appearance when they are toggled on; instead, they now only display a brief visual effect when toggled on.

Instead of removing the visual, you could have made bound armor create a ghostly armor or maybe chest plate, bound aegis could make a ghostly shield and bound armaments could give the equipped weapon a special visual. It would be easier to keep track of the spell being active then.

Conjured Ward: Reduced the duration of this ability and the Hardened Ward morph to 6 seconds from 20 seconds.
Empowered Ward (Conjured Ward morph): Reduced the duration of this morph to 8 seconds from 20 seconds.

That you are reducing the duration of a shield to less than a third of its original duration without changing its cost or buffing its power or giving it additional properties is ridiculous.

Expert Summoner: Redesigned this passive ability so it now grants you 4/8% more maximum health whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.
This passive ability’s old bonuses are now baseline effects for your pets.

And still this passive only affects three abilities of this spell tree. Why doesn't bound armor and ward count as summons if they are in the summoning tree?

Thundering Presence (Lightning Form morph):
Renamed this morph to Hurricane.
Redesigned this morph so it now increases the size and damage of the periodic effect the longer it is active, increasing up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Shock Damage.

Nice, now make the other morph the exact same but for magika users and I will be happy about this. Movement speed increase is really not that useful when we have better spells for that.

Annulment: Reduced the duration of this ability and its morphs to 6 seconds from 20 seconds. In addition, this ability and its morphs now absorb all damage instead of just spell damage.
Note: The Harness Magicka morph will continue to return Magicka only when spell damage is absorbed as a morph effect.

Well, at least you gave this ability some additional power to compensate the heavy nerf to its duration. Why is it that Ward is not getting some buff to compensate its nerf again?

Thaumaturge: Fixed an issue where this Champion ability was increasing the damage of various non-damage over time effects, such as Daedric Curse or Magicka Detonation.
Known Issue: Currently, Thaumaturge is still increasing the tooltip values of those abilities. This will be fixed in a future PTS patch.

Now, I know this is supposedly a bug, but yay, more nerfs to our DPS! Woot. Interesting thing is, you always knew this sorcerer abilities were activating this buff, we reported this when the champion system first came out! We were told that because this ability did take time to detonate it was counted as a DoT... Apparently you guys are going back on that, cool... Stealthy nerfs - Love those


MEANWHILE, THE USELESS STUFF

Rebate (Passive) - Still only affects 3 abilities out of 6 in the tree
Expert Summoner - Wasn't Great, now it is useless, only works for pet builds.

Dark Exchange - Seriously, when are you guys going to buff this? >.>
Daedric Mines - Doesn't even belong in the Tree it is on. It is that bad it is on the wrong section >.> (It summons Daedric Mines and you have a spell tree called Daedric Summoning. Guess where this ability belongs!)
Persistence (Passive) - If only we used the very few abilities affected by this passive.

Overload - Ok, I know this ult is not useless, but I am putting it here cause I am not sure if ZoS ever bothered to fix the bug that keeps getting this spell stuck in heavy attack mode.

Lighting Form - Cool ,you guys finally realized we want to use this as DPS increase, not as a shield... Now do the same for Magika sorcery. Speed buff has nothing on damage and range increase.

Boundless storm is extremely useful with the speed buff. When a tank loses a boss, or half a dozen adds rush you, or you lose range on the healer, it lets you reposition quickly in a fight. It lasts about as long as you need it to.

I am sorry, mostly what I am hearing in your post is "The speed buff is useful when you make mistakes". I think spells should be useful even if you don't make mistakes. There are better spells that give speed buffs, namely Rapid Maneuver.

The speedbuff on boundless storm is about the only reason why i slot that spell.

Rapid can´t be compared simply because it costs stamina which does not come in handy on a magica build when playing pvp.

Again PvP... I am talking about PvE, it is about time you guys endured some nerfs so Sorcerers could work in PvE since the class keeps getting nerf after nerf because of how it goes in PvP.

Oh even in PvE I slot it for the speed buff when i´m doing vMSA. I would not think about slotting rapid there because guess what - you don´t keep that speedbuff when attacking.
So basically you´re asking for every kind of sorcplay to be nerfed in favor of raiding (as that´s about the only thing where your with is desireable). But stormarmor is already a semi useful spell to slot there. Could the range be increased? Probably - the dmg is fine for it´s duration.

I´m also pretty sure the latest shield change was 30% a pvp nerf and 70% a pve nerf bc of how powerful 20s shields were in competetive solo content.
While in pvp when attacking a sorc constantly shielding nothing will change. They even got stronger defensive wise.

Imo Sorc should be an all around well build class for PvE and PvP. This PvP vs PvE crap gets old. I actually like to do both. How about getting a little creative and thinking about solutions that work without breaking one or the other?
Or not taking away/changing the few good spells sorc has everyone uses?
Come up with ideas for Pets, Mines, Encase, Darkexchange, Curse to make them vaible. Sorc has so many spells that are absolutely useless and the best you can come up with is changing an actually useful spell to be more niche in it´s application? You should be better than that.

MSA is just one of the PvE trials/ Arenas. Don't you think having the spell as a stronger AoE would be more useful than having a little bit more speed for 3 seconds?

And I am sorry, but the shield was only a problem in PvP, monster don't whine that they can't kill sorcerers, PvPers do. Believe me, I don't want to stack shields on my bar when I am raiding, but using the shield to gain extra health is pretty much the only way to keep Sorcerer Magika DPS competitive. You lower your health considerably and use the shield to compensate allowing you to spend more points in your mana pool, increasing general DPS. That is now impossible, or you will burn your mana by trying to shield your self or you will have to increase your health considerably and thus lose a considerable chunck of DPS.

Yes, I believe all classes should be balanced for PvE and PvP, unfortunately ZoS has proved again and again they are simply too incompetent to balance both or too unwilling to change a skill to actually make it work instead of simply nerfing it to the ground. Every new significant patch sorcerers are hit with one huge nerf that completely changes the class play style for PvE because the ability was getting whined at by the PvPers. We had Bolt Escaped nerfed because sorcs were just blinking all over the battle field and PvPers didnt like that (then again, wasn't that useful of a skill in PvE). Negate on the other hand was an amazing skill for PvE and it got nerfed to the ground because PvP was QQing to no end about it. As a result Sorcs were for a long while the one class without a utility ult. seems they are buffing it now, hopefully significantly. And now ward is getting bashed to pieces with a duration nerf of about 70%. 70%!!! And yes, it is because of PvP... PvPer complaining and whining they can't kill sorcs in PvP because they stack two or three shields and keep refreshing them...

Also... Really? You think the PvE solution for Sorcerers should be pets? They are freaking boring, each one takes two spell slots because they are stupid toggles and you have nearly no control over the damn things! You can';t tell them when to use their abilities, half of which only activate when they die, summoning them takes too long, costs too much mana and it is just plain boring! You sit there, watch your pets attack the enemy while praying to the gods that they don't step in crap and kill your entire raid or them selves, you try shielding them, but there is no way to heal them so... Can't even do that... Not to mention to make pet builds viable, you also need two other toggles on your bar to increase your mana pool because they are not affected by spell power, just magicka! So... 4 toggles, that is 8 of the 10 spell slots... Yeah, it will be super fun fighting with such an awesome build.

And for you to suggest Dark Exchange should ever be slotted... For that you deserved the LOL button >.> That ability should be banished and completely redesigned.

For this statement YOU deserve the lol button. He did not imply you should slot dark exchange at the moment, but rather that you could come up with useful ideas to make it a viable spell instead of trying to ruin a really useful one. Give us some examples how you would "compeltely redesign" the skill for maybe ?

Do you have any idea how many suggestions we game Zenimax on how to change the skills and passives from the Sorcerer Trees that are useless this past two years? Not only here in the forum. but in meetings Gina and the others in TeamSpeak. They are clearly not interested and only work through re-balancing existing skills... Unfortunately as it is Dark Exchange is completely useless... There is nothing you can make to , numbers you can change that will make that skill good... You need to change what it does otherwise... In any Raid standing still or being slow means death and this skill either slows you or you have to stand still to have it work... It is useless.

Mines used to be... Ok. But they nerfed it and now a mammoth can tap dance on top of them and they won't activate.

Curse is actually useful, unfortunately it is being nerfed as it will no longer be affected by the champion points as it was before.

Pets... ZoS just can't do it. As long as they remain toggles that need to be kept in both bars they will remain boring and pretty much useless.

Mettaricana

Grao wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

Give us a melee range chance of insta cast crystal frags like crystal fist or a crystal blade that shatters when you strike the enemy and the shards hit other nearby targets?

Up the expert mage passive to give 3% wep/spell dmg instead of 2%

Make pets scale on magicka or stam or atleast make one pet have a stam morph.

Ditcj bound armor for bound weapons on stam morph make it offer a toggled weapon skin of energy and like a 10% wep dmg and slotted the max 8% stam.


Just stop buffing magicka and tweaking them they were fine as is some giving love to magicka their update was theives guild this is staminas turn.

WHere are Magicka sorcs doing fine? We are still the lowest DPS of all magicka classes specially with this changes to Ward which will force us to spend points into health instead of magicka. Just like we are the lowest DPS with Stamina if I read this post correctly. Both need improvement as sorcerers are meant to be a DPS oriented class.

I have no problem with ZoS buffing the stamina sorc, but they should do it for Magicka sorcs as well. Don't be silly or so selfish

Last I checked I don't see anyone else having a buffed reduced cosy 30k insta cast skill that can be thrown inbetween a skill force pulse that can get full benefit from cp for fire frost shock dmg or a toggleable magic dmg ult that regens magicka for 20k per light attack and the strongest dmg shield recast at 6 secs aside and skill that gives even more resources.
Or pets that can draw aggro or atleast split it off of you and heal you. Playing mag sorc I had no problems pulling highest dmg but god its boring. I find myself dragging back to mag sorc every time just because zos doesn't want to help stam side of things..




Now we look at stam sorc ...... I can use wrecking blow? Crit surge armaments that's it.. lowest dps pretty of all classes stam or magic armaments and crit surge and that passive that adds stam recovery are all stam sorc has. Thundering is a joke in itself.

Feynn

Derra wrote: »

Come up with ideas for Pets, Mines, Encase, Darkexchange, Curse to make them vaible. Sorc has so many spells that are absolutely useless and the best you can come up with is changing an actually useful spell to be more niche in it´s application? You should be better than that.

I couldn't agree more. Sorcerers only have a few viable skills really. And while that may be great insofar as it helps me save skill points and makes things simple, it's also really boring. You turned Sorcerers into a "pew pew Overload" class, and even then we can't keep up with the DPS of some other classes. I have friends who gave up their Sorcerers and turned to magicka NBs, because they found the Sorcerer playstile boring. And how can one disagree, considering that the most effective Sorcerer DPS builds requires you to use only just about 7 of your 12 skill slots? (two slots are taken on each bar for toggles - Inner Light and Bound Aegis - and one ultimate slot is taken by Meteor which you only use for the passive but never actually cast, considering you'll be saving up ultimate for Overload)

I understand that some skills are situational at best. Mines and Curse can be pretty useful in PvP as far as I hear (I'm not really much of a PvPer). Dark Exchange is a joke. Pets... urgh. As long as pets are toggles and kept as they are, they are useless. One pet takes up two skill slots and they have a very long cast time which doesn't really allow you to just re-cast them willy nilly (and good luck keeping them alive with a 6sec Ward). Giving the pets abilities that you can activate manually is a step in the right direction, because it makes them more engaging and fun to use. But they are still a toggle, and we already need to have too many other toggles on our skill bars. Personally I only use pets when I'm just playing for the heck of it (for example if I'm soloing a group dungeon), not when I need to play competitively with friends and need a high DPS.

Grao

Mettaricana wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Mettaricana wrote: »

Give us a melee range chance of insta cast crystal frags like crystal fist or a crystal blade that shatters when you strike the enemy and the shards hit other nearby targets?

Up the expert mage passive to give 3% wep/spell dmg instead of 2%

Make pets scale on magicka or stam or atleast make one pet have a stam morph.

Ditcj bound armor for bound weapons on stam morph make it offer a toggled weapon skin of energy and like a 10% wep dmg and slotted the max 8% stam.


Just stop buffing magicka and tweaking them they were fine as is some giving love to magicka their update was theives guild this is staminas turn.

WHere are Magicka sorcs doing fine? We are still the lowest DPS of all magicka classes specially with this changes to Ward which will force us to spend points into health instead of magicka. Just like we are the lowest DPS with Stamina if I read this post correctly. Both need improvement as sorcerers are meant to be a DPS oriented class.

I have no problem with ZoS buffing the stamina sorc, but they should do it for Magicka sorcs as well. Don't be silly or so selfish

Last I checked I don't see anyone else having a buffed reduced cosy 30k insta cast skill that can be thrown inbetween a skill force pulse that can get full benefit from cp for fire frost shock dmg or a toggleable magic dmg ult that regens magicka for 20k per light attack and the strongest dmg shield recast at 6 secs aside and skill that gives even more resources.
Or pets that can draw aggro or atleast split it off of you and heal you. Playing mag sorc I had no problems pulling highest dmg but god its boring. I find myself dragging back to mag sorc every time just because zos doesn't want to help stam side of things..




Now we look at stam sorc ...... I can use wrecking blow? Crit surge armaments that's it.. lowest dps pretty of all classes stam or magic armaments and crit surge and that passive that adds stam recovery are all stam sorc has. Thundering is a joke in itself.

I agree, stam sorcerer sucks and needs o be buffed, but while we have all that you mentioned as magika sorcs, we are still the lowest Magika DPS out there, at least from the last I 've checked. (unless you are counting fights where you get to spamn Overload, but to charge it enough takes half the raid so...)

Grao

Feynn wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Come up with ideas for Pets, Mines, Encase, Darkexchange, Curse to make them vaible. Sorc has so many spells that are absolutely useless and the best you can come up with is changing an actually useful spell to be more niche in it´s application? You should be better than that.

I couldn't agree more. Sorcerers only have a few viable skills really. And while that may be great insofar as it helps me save skill points and makes things simple, it's also really boring. You turned Sorcerers into a "pew pew Overload" class, and even then we can't keep up with the DPS of some other classes. I have friends who gave up their Sorcerers and turned to magicka NBs, because they found the Sorcerer playstile boring. And how can one disagree, considering that the most effective Sorcerer DPS builds requires you to use only just about 7 of your 12 skill slots? (two slots are taken on each bar for toggles - Inner Light and Bound Aegis - and one ultimate slot is taken by Meteor which you only use for the passive but never actually cast, considering you'll be saving up ultimate for Overload)

I understand that some skills are situational at best. Mines and Curse can be pretty useful in PvP as far as I hear (I'm not really much of a PvPer). Dark Exchange is a joke. Pets... urgh. As long as pets are toggles and kept as they are, they are useless. One pet takes up two skill slots and they have a very long cast time which doesn't really allow you to just re-cast them willy nilly (and good luck keeping them alive with a 6sec Ward). Giving the pets abilities that you can activate manually is a step in the right direction, because it makes them more engaging and fun to use. But they are still a toggle, and we already need to have too many other toggles on our skill bars. Personally I only use pets when I'm just playing for the heck of it (for example if I'm soloing a group dungeon), not when I need to play competitively with friends and need a high DPS.

Correct. I am not even sure mines is still useful in PvP, since they nerfed it you need to pretty much stand right at the center of the mine for it to explode... Dark Exchange... As I said, that skill has to be completely redesigned, it is a horrible skill for every role and both for PvE and PvP alike. Curse... Has some uses, but it is getting nerfed so...

That not to mention a number of completely useless passives we have specially in the Summoning Tree as they don't affect the spells we use the most which are Ward and Bound Armor.

Thelon

Grao wrote: »

Would only work if we could actually control when the clannfear tanks. Would be fun to do, but I doubt it will ever happen.

You can control when the clannfear tanks. You need to hold your chosen pet command key down and left click. On PC the default pet control key is 'Y'