Official Feedback Thread for Sorcerers

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Grao wrote: »

Alright, my two scents as someone that mains a Sorcerer since the start of the game and left ESO because the class has been pretty much ruined.

For a long while PvE Sorcerer's DPS has been at the bottom of the pyramid unless you count spamming Light Attacks with Overload, an ability that has been been buggy since the release of the game and as far as I am aware, is still bugged.

Originally, ours was a strong class, but every patch we suffer nerfs on every ability that is actually useful (We have quite a few abilities that are pointless). That is because of PvP complains... We are the only class to have an ability we are punished for spamming, why? PvP complains. Now our shield is made useless... Why? PvP complains... It is nerf after nerf after nerf due to PvP complains. Negate was also nerfed to the ground because of PvP complains...

Do I understand the nerfs? Yes... Bolt escape was very frustrating in PvP before it was nerfed. Negate was absolute in team fights and stacking shields does make sorcerers really hard to kill, but every class has abilities that are frustrating... Who here hasn't seen a vampire DK faceroll 1v5 and leave the fight with 100% health after killing everyone?

Anyway, @ZOS_GinaBruno, we need ZOS to stop simply nerfing our abilities and start changing them. SO, shields are too powerful in PvP? Ok, so how can we change the ability so it is still useful in PvE but less powerful in PvP? Maybe critical hits can break the shield? How can negate be used in PvP without being so powerful and still be of use in PvE? If you nerf a class on something you have to buff it somewhere else and... I am sorry, but you can't change a DPS class so completely they become useless as DPS.

And please... Please stop shoving pets at us. You were already told by the community that we don't like them... Toggles are a pain in the ass, not to mention the pets are too big, they get in the way, they can chain boss abilities into the raid... They are just not good. We made sorcerers to cast spells, not to sit and watch our pets do the work while light attacking the boss and sometimes buff the pets. It is a boring, horrible play style >.<

Well, I'd not be opposed to having a pet build if they were actually not useless most of the time and that I can command them better on what I want them to do. The problem now are among others the ones that you mention, and that they will be 1-shot by many things if they are not constantly shielded against anything. If zenimax are serious about sorcs using pets they will either need to buff them up pretty significantly or make them take up one slot on one bar, not both bars.

Minalan

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Alright, my two scents as someone that mains a Sorcerer since the start of the game and left ESO because the class has been pretty much ruined.

For a long while PvE Sorcerer's DPS has been at the bottom of the pyramid unless you count spamming Light Attacks with Overload, an ability that has been been buggy since the release of the game and as far as I am aware, is still bugged.

Originally, ours was a strong class, but every patch we suffer nerfs on every ability that is actually useful (We have quite a few abilities that are pointless). That is because of PvP complains... We are the only class to have an ability we are punished for spamming, why? PvP complains. Now our shield is made useless... Why? PvP complains... It is nerf after nerf after nerf due to PvP complains. Negate was also nerfed to the ground because of PvP complains...

Do I understand the nerfs? Yes... Bolt escape was very frustrating in PvP before it was nerfed. Negate was absolute in team fights and stacking shields does make sorcerers really hard to kill, but every class has abilities that are frustrating... Who here hasn't seen a vampire DK faceroll 1v5 and leave the fight with 100% health after killing everyone?

Anyway, @ZOS_GinaBruno, we need ZOS to stop simply nerfing our abilities and start changing them. SO, shields are too powerful in PvP? Ok, so how can we change the ability so it is still useful in PvE but less powerful in PvP? Maybe critical hits can break the shield? How can negate be used in PvP without being so powerful and still be of use in PvE? If you nerf a class on something you have to buff it somewhere else and... I am sorry, but you can't change a DPS class so completely they become useless as DPS.

And please... Please stop shoving pets at us. You were already told by the community that we don't like them... Toggles are a pain in the ass, not to mention the pets are too big, they get in the way, they can chain boss abilities into the raid... They are just not good. We made sorcerers to cast spells, not to sit and watch our pets do the work while light attacking the boss and sometimes buff the pets. It is a boring, horrible play style >.<

Well, I'd not be opposed to having a pet build if they were actually not useless most of the time and that I can command them better on what I want them to do. The problem now are among others the ones that you mention, and that they will be 1-shot by many things if they are not constantly shielded against anything. If zenimax are serious about sorcs using pets they will either need to buff them up pretty significantly or make them take up one slot on one bar, not both bars.

I wouldn't use pets if they were the only viable build in the game. Sorry, Im not interested in playing Pokemon. I play the game to be a Mage, to toss lightning and fire around.

I agree the six second change isn't game killing, but it's irritating. And not fun. It's one more annoying thing to remember after having a few beers and relaxing on a raid with friends after work. Unnecessary button pushing in between killing adds.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

Minalan wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Alright, my two scents as someone that mains a Sorcerer since the start of the game and left ESO because the class has been pretty much ruined.

For a long while PvE Sorcerer's DPS has been at the bottom of the pyramid unless you count spamming Light Attacks with Overload, an ability that has been been buggy since the release of the game and as far as I am aware, is still bugged.

Originally, ours was a strong class, but every patch we suffer nerfs on every ability that is actually useful (We have quite a few abilities that are pointless). That is because of PvP complains... We are the only class to have an ability we are punished for spamming, why? PvP complains. Now our shield is made useless... Why? PvP complains... It is nerf after nerf after nerf due to PvP complains. Negate was also nerfed to the ground because of PvP complains...

Do I understand the nerfs? Yes... Bolt escape was very frustrating in PvP before it was nerfed. Negate was absolute in team fights and stacking shields does make sorcerers really hard to kill, but every class has abilities that are frustrating... Who here hasn't seen a vampire DK faceroll 1v5 and leave the fight with 100% health after killing everyone?

Anyway, @ZOS_GinaBruno, we need ZOS to stop simply nerfing our abilities and start changing them. SO, shields are too powerful in PvP? Ok, so how can we change the ability so it is still useful in PvE but less powerful in PvP? Maybe critical hits can break the shield? How can negate be used in PvP without being so powerful and still be of use in PvE? If you nerf a class on something you have to buff it somewhere else and... I am sorry, but you can't change a DPS class so completely they become useless as DPS.

And please... Please stop shoving pets at us. You were already told by the community that we don't like them... Toggles are a pain in the ass, not to mention the pets are too big, they get in the way, they can chain boss abilities into the raid... They are just not good. We made sorcerers to cast spells, not to sit and watch our pets do the work while light attacking the boss and sometimes buff the pets. It is a boring, horrible play style >.<

Well, I'd not be opposed to having a pet build if they were actually not useless most of the time and that I can command them better on what I want them to do. The problem now are among others the ones that you mention, and that they will be 1-shot by many things if they are not constantly shielded against anything. If zenimax are serious about sorcs using pets they will either need to buff them up pretty significantly or make them take up one slot on one bar, not both bars.

I wouldn't use pets if they were the only viable build in the game. Sorry, Im not interested in playing Pokemon. I play the game to be a Mage, to toss lightning and fire around.

I agree the six second change isn't game killing, but it's irritating. And not fun. It's one more annoying thing to remember after having a few beers and relaxing on a raid with friends after work. Unnecessary button pushing in between killing adds.

I know, but as we're not allowed to be what we want as zenimax just loves to nerf sorcs all the time, we'll soon not have anything else than a pet build to rely on, might as well try to get that buffed to viable levels I guess.

Grao

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Alright, my two scents as someone that mains a Sorcerer since the start of the game and left ESO because the class has been pretty much ruined.

For a long while PvE Sorcerer's DPS has been at the bottom of the pyramid unless you count spamming Light Attacks with Overload, an ability that has been been buggy since the release of the game and as far as I am aware, is still bugged.

Originally, ours was a strong class, but every patch we suffer nerfs on every ability that is actually useful (We have quite a few abilities that are pointless). That is because of PvP complains... We are the only class to have an ability we are punished for spamming, why? PvP complains. Now our shield is made useless... Why? PvP complains... It is nerf after nerf after nerf due to PvP complains. Negate was also nerfed to the ground because of PvP complains...

Do I understand the nerfs? Yes... Bolt escape was very frustrating in PvP before it was nerfed. Negate was absolute in team fights and stacking shields does make sorcerers really hard to kill, but every class has abilities that are frustrating... Who here hasn't seen a vampire DK faceroll 1v5 and leave the fight with 100% health after killing everyone?

Anyway, @ZOS_GinaBruno, we need ZOS to stop simply nerfing our abilities and start changing them. SO, shields are too powerful in PvP? Ok, so how can we change the ability so it is still useful in PvE but less powerful in PvP? Maybe critical hits can break the shield? How can negate be used in PvP without being so powerful and still be of use in PvE? If you nerf a class on something you have to buff it somewhere else and... I am sorry, but you can't change a DPS class so completely they become useless as DPS.

And please... Please stop shoving pets at us. You were already told by the community that we don't like them... Toggles are a pain in the ass, not to mention the pets are too big, they get in the way, they can chain boss abilities into the raid... They are just not good. We made sorcerers to cast spells, not to sit and watch our pets do the work while light attacking the boss and sometimes buff the pets. It is a boring, horrible play style >.<

Well, I'd not be opposed to having a pet build if they were actually not useless most of the time and that I can command them better on what I want them to do. The problem now are among others the ones that you mention, and that they will be 1-shot by many things if they are not constantly shielded against anything. If zenimax are serious about sorcs using pets they will either need to buff them up pretty significantly or make them take up one slot on one bar, not both bars.

Precisely, if you could actually control the pets and they were actually useful, it would be viable and possibly fun to play. Currently pet builds consist in summoning your pets and watching them automaticly do their thing. From time to time you shield them and apply some buffs, otherwise you light attack the boss and... Yeah, pray your pet is not stupid enough to step in the AOE and die >.>
ZOS doesnt know how to script pets, simple as that.

Grao

Minalan wrote: »

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Alright, my two scents as someone that mains a Sorcerer since the start of the game and left ESO because the class has been pretty much ruined.

For a long while PvE Sorcerer's DPS has been at the bottom of the pyramid unless you count spamming Light Attacks with Overload, an ability that has been been buggy since the release of the game and as far as I am aware, is still bugged.

Originally, ours was a strong class, but every patch we suffer nerfs on every ability that is actually useful (We have quite a few abilities that are pointless). That is because of PvP complains... We are the only class to have an ability we are punished for spamming, why? PvP complains. Now our shield is made useless... Why? PvP complains... It is nerf after nerf after nerf due to PvP complains. Negate was also nerfed to the ground because of PvP complains...

Do I understand the nerfs? Yes... Bolt escape was very frustrating in PvP before it was nerfed. Negate was absolute in team fights and stacking shields does make sorcerers really hard to kill, but every class has abilities that are frustrating... Who here hasn't seen a vampire DK faceroll 1v5 and leave the fight with 100% health after killing everyone?

Anyway, @ZOS_GinaBruno, we need ZOS to stop simply nerfing our abilities and start changing them. SO, shields are too powerful in PvP? Ok, so how can we change the ability so it is still useful in PvE but less powerful in PvP? Maybe critical hits can break the shield? How can negate be used in PvP without being so powerful and still be of use in PvE? If you nerf a class on something you have to buff it somewhere else and... I am sorry, but you can't change a DPS class so completely they become useless as DPS.

And please... Please stop shoving pets at us. You were already told by the community that we don't like them... Toggles are a pain in the ass, not to mention the pets are too big, they get in the way, they can chain boss abilities into the raid... They are just not good. We made sorcerers to cast spells, not to sit and watch our pets do the work while light attacking the boss and sometimes buff the pets. It is a boring, horrible play style >.<

Well, I'd not be opposed to having a pet build if they were actually not useless most of the time and that I can command them better on what I want them to do. The problem now are among others the ones that you mention, and that they will be 1-shot by many things if they are not constantly shielded against anything. If zenimax are serious about sorcs using pets they will either need to buff them up pretty significantly or make them take up one slot on one bar, not both bars.

I wouldn't use pets if they were the only viable build in the game. Sorry, Im not interested in playing Pokemon. I play the game to be a Mage, to toss lightning and fire around.

I agree the six second change isn't game killing, but it's irritating. And not fun. It's one more annoying thing to remember after having a few beers and relaxing on a raid with friends after work. Unnecessary button pushing in between killing adds.

It is not exactly true that this change isn't game breaking for Sorcs. Unless things changed considerably since I last played, most sorcs interested in end game content were lowering their health and using ward to keep them selves alive during PvE boss fights. That way we at least came close to the DPS output of the other classes. With this changes that will be far harder to accomplish, the mana use will be too great and we will need to slot ward in our main bar, which excludes yet another offensive spell, lowering our DPS

Grao

Absorption Field - It would be interesting to have this spell's heal correlate to how much damage it prevents, thus justifying the name.

Suppression Field - This should be renamed and if the damage it does correlates to the damage it prevents, it would be very interesting.

Bound Armor: This ability and its morphs no longer permanently change your appearance when they are toggled on; instead, they now only display a brief visual effect when toggled on.

Instead of removing the visual, you could have made bound armor create a ghostly armor or maybe chest plate, bound aegis could make a ghostly shield and bound armaments could give the equipped weapon a special visual. It would be easier to keep track of the spell being active then.

Conjured Ward: Reduced the duration of this ability and the Hardened Ward morph to 6 seconds from 20 seconds.
Empowered Ward (Conjured Ward morph): Reduced the duration of this morph to 8 seconds from 20 seconds.

That you are reducing the duration of a shield to less than a third of its original duration without changing its cost or buffing its power or giving it additional properties is ridiculous.

Expert Summoner: Redesigned this passive ability so it now grants you 4/8% more maximum health whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.
This passive ability’s old bonuses are now baseline effects for your pets.

And still this passive only affects three abilities of this spell tree. Why doesn't bound armor and ward count as summons if they are in the summoning tree?

Thundering Presence (Lightning Form morph):
Renamed this morph to Hurricane.
Redesigned this morph so it now increases the size and damage of the periodic effect the longer it is active, increasing up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Shock Damage.

Nice, now make the other morph the exact same but for magika users and I will be happy about this. Movement speed increase is really not that useful when we have better spells for that.

Annulment: Reduced the duration of this ability and its morphs to 6 seconds from 20 seconds. In addition, this ability and its morphs now absorb all damage instead of just spell damage.
Note: The Harness Magicka morph will continue to return Magicka only when spell damage is absorbed as a morph effect.

Well, at least you gave this ability some additional power to compensate the heavy nerf to its duration. Why is it that Ward is not getting some buff to compensate its nerf again?

Thaumaturge: Fixed an issue where this Champion ability was increasing the damage of various non-damage over time effects, such as Daedric Curse or Magicka Detonation.
Known Issue: Currently, Thaumaturge is still increasing the tooltip values of those abilities. This will be fixed in a future PTS patch.

Now, I know this is supposedly a bug, but yay, more nerfs to our DPS! Woot. Interesting thing is, you always knew this sorcerer abilities were activating this buff, we reported this when the champion system first came out! We were told that because this ability did take time to detonate it was counted as a DoT... Apparently you guys are going back on that, cool... Stealthy nerfs - Love those


MEANWHILE, THE USELESS STUFF

Rebate (Passive) - Still only affects 3 abilities out of 6 in the tree
Expert Summoner - Wasn't Great, now it is useless, only works for pet builds.

Dark Exchange - Seriously, when are you guys going to buff this? >.>
Daedric Mines - Doesn't even belong in the Tree it is on. It is that bad it is on the wrong section >.> (It summons Daedric Mines and you have a spell tree called Daedric Summoning. Guess where this ability belongs!)
Persistence (Passive) - If only we used the very few abilities affected by this passive.

Overload - Ok, I know this ult is not useless, but I am putting it here cause I am not sure if ZoS ever bothered to fix the bug that keeps getting this spell stuck in heavy attack mode.

Lighting Form - Cool ,you guys finally realized we want to use this as DPS increase, not as a shield... Now do the same for Magika sorcery. Speed buff has nothing on damage and range increase.

Minalan

Grao wrote: »

Absorption Field - It would be interesting to have this spell's heal correlate to how much damage it prevents, thus justifying the name.

Suppression Field - This should be renamed and if the damage it does correlates to the damage it prevents, it would be very interesting.

Bound Armor: This ability and its morphs no longer permanently change your appearance when they are toggled on; instead, they now only display a brief visual effect when toggled on.

Instead of removing the visual, you could have made bound armor create a ghostly armor or maybe chest plate, bound aegis could make a ghostly shield and bound armaments could give the equipped weapon a special visual. It would be easier to keep track of the spell being active then.

Conjured Ward: Reduced the duration of this ability and the Hardened Ward morph to 6 seconds from 20 seconds.
Empowered Ward (Conjured Ward morph): Reduced the duration of this morph to 8 seconds from 20 seconds.

That you are reducing the duration of a shield to less than a third of its original duration without changing its cost or buffing its power or giving it additional properties is ridiculous.

Expert Summoner: Redesigned this passive ability so it now grants you 4/8% more maximum health whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.
This passive ability’s old bonuses are now baseline effects for your pets.

And still this passive only affects three abilities of this spell tree. Why doesn't bound armor and ward count as summons if they are in the summoning tree?

Thundering Presence (Lightning Form morph):
Renamed this morph to Hurricane.
Redesigned this morph so it now increases the size and damage of the periodic effect the longer it is active, increasing up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Shock Damage.

Nice, now make the other morph the exact same but for magika users and I will be happy about this. Movement speed increase is really not that useful when we have better spells for that.

Annulment: Reduced the duration of this ability and its morphs to 6 seconds from 20 seconds. In addition, this ability and its morphs now absorb all damage instead of just spell damage.
Note: The Harness Magicka morph will continue to return Magicka only when spell damage is absorbed as a morph effect.

Well, at least you gave this ability some additional power to compensate the heavy nerf to its duration. Why is it that Ward is not getting some buff to compensate its nerf again?

Thaumaturge: Fixed an issue where this Champion ability was increasing the damage of various non-damage over time effects, such as Daedric Curse or Magicka Detonation.
Known Issue: Currently, Thaumaturge is still increasing the tooltip values of those abilities. This will be fixed in a future PTS patch.

Now, I know this is supposedly a bug, but yay, more nerfs to our DPS! Woot. Interesting thing is, you always knew this sorcerer abilities were activating this buff, we reported this when the champion system first came out! We were told that because this ability did take time to detonate it was counted as a DoT... Apparently you guys are going back on that, cool... Stealthy nerfs - Love those


MEANWHILE, THE USELESS STUFF

Rebate (Passive) - Still only affects 3 abilities out of 6 in the tree
Expert Summoner - Wasn't Great, now it is useless, only works for pet builds.

Dark Exchange - Seriously, when are you guys going to buff this? >.>
Daedric Mines - Doesn't even belong in the Tree it is on. It is that bad it is on the wrong section >.> (It summons Daedric Mines and you have a spell tree called Daedric Summoning. Guess where this ability belongs!)
Persistence (Passive) - If only we used the very few abilities affected by this passive.

Overload - Ok, I know this ult is not useless, but I am putting it here cause I am not sure if ZoS ever bothered to fix the bug that keeps getting this spell stuck in heavy attack mode.

Lighting Form - Cool ,you guys finally realized we want to use this as DPS increase, not as a shield... Now do the same for Magika sorcery. Speed buff has nothing on damage and range increase.

Boundless storm is extremely useful with the speed buff. When a tank loses a boss, or half a dozen adds rush you, or you lose range on the healer, it lets you reposition quickly in a fight. It lasts about as long as you need it to.

rgullaksenb16_ESO

This is crazy, reducing the duration of a shield from 20 to 6 secs, atleast give it ~ 12 - 15 sec.
The duration you can go offensive now is like nothing, since you want to reaply you other shields as well, Atm if you are fighting you won't be able to aply any presure now. I mean the 3 - 4 sec when you can go offensive is like nothing. Lets say you go offensive and loose your shields, A nb or any stemina build can now just stun you and you will die with the new changes.

Thelon

Grao wrote: »

Currently pet builds consist in summoning your pets and watching them automaticly do their thing. From time to time you shield them and apply some buffs, otherwise you light attack the boss and... Yeah, pray your pet is not stupid enough to step in the AOE and die >.>
ZOS doesnt know how to script pets, simple as that.

@Grao

You've never seen a good pet build in action, simple as that

Grao

Minalan wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Absorption Field - It would be interesting to have this spell's heal correlate to how much damage it prevents, thus justifying the name.

Suppression Field - This should be renamed and if the damage it does correlates to the damage it prevents, it would be very interesting.

Bound Armor: This ability and its morphs no longer permanently change your appearance when they are toggled on; instead, they now only display a brief visual effect when toggled on.

Instead of removing the visual, you could have made bound armor create a ghostly armor or maybe chest plate, bound aegis could make a ghostly shield and bound armaments could give the equipped weapon a special visual. It would be easier to keep track of the spell being active then.

Conjured Ward: Reduced the duration of this ability and the Hardened Ward morph to 6 seconds from 20 seconds.
Empowered Ward (Conjured Ward morph): Reduced the duration of this morph to 8 seconds from 20 seconds.

That you are reducing the duration of a shield to less than a third of its original duration without changing its cost or buffing its power or giving it additional properties is ridiculous.

Expert Summoner: Redesigned this passive ability so it now grants you 4/8% more maximum health whenever you have a Daedric Summoning pet active.
This passive ability’s old bonuses are now baseline effects for your pets.

And still this passive only affects three abilities of this spell tree. Why doesn't bound armor and ward count as summons if they are in the summoning tree?

Thundering Presence (Lightning Form morph):
Renamed this morph to Hurricane.
Redesigned this morph so it now increases the size and damage of the periodic effect the longer it is active, increasing up to 225% more damage and up to 9 meters in size.
This morph now deals Physical Damage instead of Shock Damage.

Nice, now make the other morph the exact same but for magika users and I will be happy about this. Movement speed increase is really not that useful when we have better spells for that.

Annulment: Reduced the duration of this ability and its morphs to 6 seconds from 20 seconds. In addition, this ability and its morphs now absorb all damage instead of just spell damage.
Note: The Harness Magicka morph will continue to return Magicka only when spell damage is absorbed as a morph effect.

Well, at least you gave this ability some additional power to compensate the heavy nerf to its duration. Why is it that Ward is not getting some buff to compensate its nerf again?

Thaumaturge: Fixed an issue where this Champion ability was increasing the damage of various non-damage over time effects, such as Daedric Curse or Magicka Detonation.
Known Issue: Currently, Thaumaturge is still increasing the tooltip values of those abilities. This will be fixed in a future PTS patch.

Now, I know this is supposedly a bug, but yay, more nerfs to our DPS! Woot. Interesting thing is, you always knew this sorcerer abilities were activating this buff, we reported this when the champion system first came out! We were told that because this ability did take time to detonate it was counted as a DoT... Apparently you guys are going back on that, cool... Stealthy nerfs - Love those


MEANWHILE, THE USELESS STUFF

Rebate (Passive) - Still only affects 3 abilities out of 6 in the tree
Expert Summoner - Wasn't Great, now it is useless, only works for pet builds.

Dark Exchange - Seriously, when are you guys going to buff this? >.>
Daedric Mines - Doesn't even belong in the Tree it is on. It is that bad it is on the wrong section >.> (It summons Daedric Mines and you have a spell tree called Daedric Summoning. Guess where this ability belongs!)
Persistence (Passive) - If only we used the very few abilities affected by this passive.

Overload - Ok, I know this ult is not useless, but I am putting it here cause I am not sure if ZoS ever bothered to fix the bug that keeps getting this spell stuck in heavy attack mode.

Lighting Form - Cool ,you guys finally realized we want to use this as DPS increase, not as a shield... Now do the same for Magika sorcery. Speed buff has nothing on damage and range increase.

Boundless storm is extremely useful with the speed buff. When a tank loses a boss, or half a dozen adds rush you, or you lose range on the healer, it lets you reposition quickly in a fight. It lasts about as long as you need it to.

I am sorry, mostly what I am hearing in your post is "The speed buff is useful when you make mistakes". I think spells should be useful even if you don't make mistakes. There are better spells that give speed buffs, namely Rapid Maneuver.

Grao

Thelon wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Currently pet builds consist in summoning your pets and watching them automaticly do their thing. From time to time you shield them and apply some buffs, otherwise you light attack the boss and... Yeah, pray your pet is not stupid enough to step in the AOE and die >.>
ZOS doesnt know how to script pets, simple as that.

@Grao

You've never seen a good pet build in action, simple as that

In PvE? No, I never seen a good pet build in action, besides, having 8 of your 10 spell slots consumed by toggles makes the game extremely boring. Familiar / Winged Twilight / Bound Armor (cause you need the extra mana for pets builds otherwise you do no damage) / Inner Light (same reason, you just need the extra mana)... You need all that in both bars otherwise you take several seconds of no DPS to summon it all back.

On top of that, pets are inconvenient in Raids. They still channel boss abilities, they still stand in crap because you have almost no control on them, sometimes they take Agro from the boss... I loved the pets while leveling... Unfortunately they are just not useful for end of game play, at least not for Raiding.

STEVIL

Derra wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

I play both a magicka sorc and stamina sorc.
The changes to Annulment are so great and basically make Conjured Ward obsolete, why not go all the way, and completely take this skill out of the game, and instead replace it with something creative and unique, something that will be able to morph into a stamina skill that will give stamina sorcs a decent edge.

I know it's not going to be a popular idea, but it just seems silly to keep Conjured Ward in the game after Annulment puts it to shame.

God please no. Annulment costs about 30% more magica than hardened, does not ward pets, is about 40% weaker in shieldstrengh when not using dampen magica with 7 light armor.

Hardened ward is still better than annulment / harness / dampen. Not by much but enough to matter.

post after post by sorcs cry "annulment totally trumps our ward now" until someone says "so just drop it for something useful and unique" then sorc start realizing "hey wait no ours is really better than annul"

Day 6 of playtest and the sun came up.

STEVIL

pet improvement suggestion
Scale off stamina or magica for all factors, use higher.
Pets Auto-proc heals if ANY pet or the caster is below 25% health. some cooldown
Add a Mass FRENZY option which is basically a large aoe taunt from a pet triggered by caster using some control set key combo or single key. Think like fear but in reverse.


IMO those three should really help turn pet use in almost any environment into a useful option

I would strongly consider replacing the ward with a major buff to both physic and mag resist for both caster and pets lasting 15-30sec.

then not so much reliant on shields.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

STEVIL wrote: »

pet improvement suggestion
Scale off stamina or magica for all factors, use higher.
Pets Auto-proc heals if ANY pet or the caster is below 25% health. some cooldown
Add a Mass FRENZY option which is basically a large aoe taunt from a pet triggered by caster using some control set key combo or single key. Think like fear but in reverse.


IMO those three should really help turn pet use in almost any environment into a useful option

I would strongly consider replacing the ward with a major buff to both physic and mag resist for both caster and pets lasting 15-30sec.

then not so much reliant on shields.

giving pet taunt skills sounds like a awsome idea, fully support that bro, most other mmo's i play that use pets have a tank pet that generates loads of threat, and honestly if you see a massive daedric creature running at you, you are not going to go after the mage, the creature is the most immediate threat, this is of course using reality as logic, pvper's metagame by going after the sorcerer first

Grao

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

pet improvement suggestion
Scale off stamina or magica for all factors, use higher.
Pets Auto-proc heals if ANY pet or the caster is below 25% health. some cooldown
Add a Mass FRENZY option which is basically a large aoe taunt from a pet triggered by caster using some control set key combo or single key. Think like fear but in reverse.


IMO those three should really help turn pet use in almost any environment into a useful option

I would strongly consider replacing the ward with a major buff to both physic and mag resist for both caster and pets lasting 15-30sec.

then not so much reliant on shields.

giving pet taunt skills sounds like a awsome idea, fully support that bro, most other mmo's i play that use pets have a tank pet that generates loads of threat, and honestly if you see a massive daedric creature running at you, you are not going to go after the mage, the creature is the most immediate threat, this is of course using reality as logic, pvper's metagame by going after the sorcerer first

Clannfear does taunt or at least it used to taunt. The problem is, it has to be a pet skill we can control otherwise the pet will taunt stuff at the wrong time and the tank will murder the summoner of the pet.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

pet improvement suggestion
Scale off stamina or magica for all factors, use higher.
Pets Auto-proc heals if ANY pet or the caster is below 25% health. some cooldown
Add a Mass FRENZY option which is basically a large aoe taunt from a pet triggered by caster using some control set key combo or single key. Think like fear but in reverse.


IMO those three should really help turn pet use in almost any environment into a useful option

I would strongly consider replacing the ward with a major buff to both physic and mag resist for both caster and pets lasting 15-30sec.

then not so much reliant on shields.

giving pet taunt skills sounds like a awsome idea, fully support that bro, most other mmo's i play that use pets have a tank pet that generates loads of threat, and honestly if you see a massive daedric creature running at you, you are not going to go after the mage, the creature is the most immediate threat, this is of course using reality as logic, pvper's metagame by going after the sorcerer first

Clannfear does taunt or at least it used to taunt. The problem is, it has to be a pet skill we can control otherwise the pet will taunt stuff at the wrong time and the tank will murder the summoner of the pet.

oh i fully agree, and thats what i meant, srry for being unclear. To be wholly honest, the twilight skill should be changed to "heals itself and the caster" like the clanfear is now, and the clanfear should get the taunt, something that pulls everything near it toward the clanfear. Plus whatever nerf stopped the resto staff skills from targeting the summons needs to be removed


Edit: and for gods sake change the skins on the familiar summon, for gods sake i feel like a two-bit summoner with such low tier summons, clanfear and scamps are for hack apprentices, not battlehardened sorcerers. I want a freaking Daedroth or a dremora for the morphs

Grao

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

pet improvement suggestion
Scale off stamina or magica for all factors, use higher.
Pets Auto-proc heals if ANY pet or the caster is below 25% health. some cooldown
Add a Mass FRENZY option which is basically a large aoe taunt from a pet triggered by caster using some control set key combo or single key. Think like fear but in reverse.


IMO those three should really help turn pet use in almost any environment into a useful option

I would strongly consider replacing the ward with a major buff to both physic and mag resist for both caster and pets lasting 15-30sec.

then not so much reliant on shields.

giving pet taunt skills sounds like a awsome idea, fully support that bro, most other mmo's i play that use pets have a tank pet that generates loads of threat, and honestly if you see a massive daedric creature running at you, you are not going to go after the mage, the creature is the most immediate threat, this is of course using reality as logic, pvper's metagame by going after the sorcerer first

Clannfear does taunt or at least it used to taunt. The problem is, it has to be a pet skill we can control otherwise the pet will taunt stuff at the wrong time and the tank will murder the summoner of the pet.

oh i fully agree, and thats what i meant, srry for being unclear. To be wholly honest, the twilight skill should be changed to "heals itself and the caster" like the clanfear is now, and the clanfear should get the taunt, something that pulls everything near it toward the clanfear. Plus whatever nerf stopped the resto staff skills from targeting the summons needs to be removed


Edit: and for gods sake change the skins on the familiar summon, for gods sake i feel like a two-bit summoner with such low tier summons, clanfear and scamps are for hack apprentices, not battlehardened sorcerers. I want a freaking Daedroth or a dremora for the morphs

Actually, it is important that pets aren't healed by the healer's spells. Remember that heals in Raids are distributive and target those with lowest health, if your pet is targeted by it, your tank may not get healed and the raid will wipe. The ward we put on pets should work as a heal though... That was the suggestion we gave Zenimax about 8 months ago.

As for the skins, I agree the pets look lame and could be nicer, but I think they have to prioratize making the class work over making it pretty. Currently Sorcs are just not good. It is silly that a class known through out all MMOs as a high DPS output class has the worse DPS in registered in ESO both with stamina and Magicka builds.

STEVIL

What if jewelry enchants also applied to pets with similar pet specific effects where needed.

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

pet improvement suggestion
Scale off stamina or magica for all factors, use higher.
Pets Auto-proc heals if ANY pet or the caster is below 25% health. some cooldown
Add a Mass FRENZY option which is basically a large aoe taunt from a pet triggered by caster using some control set key combo or single key. Think like fear but in reverse.


IMO those three should really help turn pet use in almost any environment into a useful option

I would strongly consider replacing the ward with a major buff to both physic and mag resist for both caster and pets lasting 15-30sec.

then not so much reliant on shields.

giving pet taunt skills sounds like a awsome idea, fully support that bro, most other mmo's i play that use pets have a tank pet that generates loads of threat, and honestly if you see a massive daedric creature running at you, you are not going to go after the mage, the creature is the most immediate threat, this is of course using reality as logic, pvper's metagame by going after the sorcerer first

Clannfear does taunt or at least it used to taunt. The problem is, it has to be a pet skill we can control otherwise the pet will taunt stuff at the wrong time and the tank will murder the summoner of the pet.

oh i fully agree, and thats what i meant, srry for being unclear. To be wholly honest, the twilight skill should be changed to "heals itself and the caster" like the clanfear is now, and the clanfear should get the taunt, something that pulls everything near it toward the clanfear. Plus whatever nerf stopped the resto staff skills from targeting the summons needs to be removed


Edit: and for gods sake change the skins on the familiar summon, for gods sake i feel like a two-bit summoner with such low tier summons, clanfear and scamps are for hack apprentices, not battlehardened sorcerers. I want a freaking Daedroth or a dremora for the morphs

Actually, it is important that pets aren't healed by the healer's spells. Remember that heals in Raids are distributive and target those with lowest health, if your pet is targeted by it, your tank may not get healed and the raid will wipe. The ward we put on pets should work as a heal though... That was the suggestion we gave Zenimax about 8 months ago.

As for the skins, I agree the pets look lame and could be nicer, but I think they have to prioratize making the class work over making it pretty. Currently Sorcs are just not good. It is silly that a class known through out all MMOs as a high DPS output class has the worse DPS in registered in ESO both with stamina and Magicka builds.

good point on the raid thing

But the ward working as a heal for pets, i love that, thats a great suggestion, but should be just one morph, not work one both morphs

And yes, its irksome that we have such crap dps, they went with the class option in this game, so in my opinion the whole fight to perfectly balance seems stupid, all classes have their strenghts and weaknesses in most mmo's, you cant expect a support class to defeat a dps or tank, the whole point to mmo's and classes to to have you group up with other players to cover each others weaknesses, all this crying for balance is annoying, and against the spirit of a mmo with classes

cpuScientist

There is no point to uaig this class now over any other. The only redeeming quality left is OVERLOAD. And I freaking hate that ultimate, but gotta use it as that is the only way to generate decent DPS. Just need that one and be done with your complete killing of the class.

Grao

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

pet improvement suggestion
Scale off stamina or magica for all factors, use higher.
Pets Auto-proc heals if ANY pet or the caster is below 25% health. some cooldown
Add a Mass FRENZY option which is basically a large aoe taunt from a pet triggered by caster using some control set key combo or single key. Think like fear but in reverse.


IMO those three should really help turn pet use in almost any environment into a useful option

I would strongly consider replacing the ward with a major buff to both physic and mag resist for both caster and pets lasting 15-30sec.

then not so much reliant on shields.

giving pet taunt skills sounds like a awsome idea, fully support that bro, most other mmo's i play that use pets have a tank pet that generates loads of threat, and honestly if you see a massive daedric creature running at you, you are not going to go after the mage, the creature is the most immediate threat, this is of course using reality as logic, pvper's metagame by going after the sorcerer first

Clannfear does taunt or at least it used to taunt. The problem is, it has to be a pet skill we can control otherwise the pet will taunt stuff at the wrong time and the tank will murder the summoner of the pet.

oh i fully agree, and thats what i meant, srry for being unclear. To be wholly honest, the twilight skill should be changed to "heals itself and the caster" like the clanfear is now, and the clanfear should get the taunt, something that pulls everything near it toward the clanfear. Plus whatever nerf stopped the resto staff skills from targeting the summons needs to be removed


Edit: and for gods sake change the skins on the familiar summon, for gods sake i feel like a two-bit summoner with such low tier summons, clanfear and scamps are for hack apprentices, not battlehardened sorcerers. I want a freaking Daedroth or a dremora for the morphs

Actually, it is important that pets aren't healed by the healer's spells. Remember that heals in Raids are distributive and target those with lowest health, if your pet is targeted by it, your tank may not get healed and the raid will wipe. The ward we put on pets should work as a heal though... That was the suggestion we gave Zenimax about 8 months ago.

As for the skins, I agree the pets look lame and could be nicer, but I think they have to prioratize making the class work over making it pretty. Currently Sorcs are just not good. It is silly that a class known through out all MMOs as a high DPS output class has the worse DPS in registered in ESO both with stamina and Magicka builds.

good point on the raid thing

But the ward working as a heal for pets, i love that, thats a great suggestion, but should be just one morph, not work one both morphs

And yes, its irksome that we have such crap dps, they went with the class option in this game, so in my opinion the whole fight to perfectly balance seems stupid, all classes have their strenghts and weaknesses in most mmo's, you cant expect a support class to defeat a dps or tank, the whole point to mmo's and classes to to have you group up with other players to cover each others weaknesses, all this crying for balance is annoying, and against the spirit of a mmo with classes

I understand their wish to allow all the classes to do everything well...

The problem is that Sorcerers are a known DPS class, people that started this game playing sorcerers expected to play DPS and our damage output is lower than all the other classes. That is what I don't understand. We are also not great healers... So... Are sorcerers supposed to be tanks? >.>

bloodenragedb14_ESO

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bloodenragedb14_ESO wrote: »

STEVIL wrote: »

pet improvement suggestion
Scale off stamina or magica for all factors, use higher.
Pets Auto-proc heals if ANY pet or the caster is below 25% health. some cooldown
Add a Mass FRENZY option which is basically a large aoe taunt from a pet triggered by caster using some control set key combo or single key. Think like fear but in reverse.


IMO those three should really help turn pet use in almost any environment into a useful option

I would strongly consider replacing the ward with a major buff to both physic and mag resist for both caster and pets lasting 15-30sec.

then not so much reliant on shields.

giving pet taunt skills sounds like a awsome idea, fully support that bro, most other mmo's i play that use pets have a tank pet that generates loads of threat, and honestly if you see a massive daedric creature running at you, you are not going to go after the mage, the creature is the most immediate threat, this is of course using reality as logic, pvper's metagame by going after the sorcerer first

Clannfear does taunt or at least it used to taunt. The problem is, it has to be a pet skill we can control otherwise the pet will taunt stuff at the wrong time and the tank will murder the summoner of the pet.

oh i fully agree, and thats what i meant, srry for being unclear. To be wholly honest, the twilight skill should be changed to "heals itself and the caster" like the clanfear is now, and the clanfear should get the taunt, something that pulls everything near it toward the clanfear. Plus whatever nerf stopped the resto staff skills from targeting the summons needs to be removed


Edit: and for gods sake change the skins on the familiar summon, for gods sake i feel like a two-bit summoner with such low tier summons, clanfear and scamps are for hack apprentices, not battlehardened sorcerers. I want a freaking Daedroth or a dremora for the morphs

Actually, it is important that pets aren't healed by the healer's spells. Remember that heals in Raids are distributive and target those with lowest health, if your pet is targeted by it, your tank may not get healed and the raid will wipe. The ward we put on pets should work as a heal though... That was the suggestion we gave Zenimax about 8 months ago.

As for the skins, I agree the pets look lame and could be nicer, but I think they have to prioratize making the class work over making it pretty. Currently Sorcs are just not good. It is silly that a class known through out all MMOs as a high DPS output class has the worse DPS in registered in ESO both with stamina and Magicka builds.

good point on the raid thing

But the ward working as a heal for pets, i love that, thats a great suggestion, but should be just one morph, not work one both morphs

And yes, its irksome that we have such crap dps, they went with the class option in this game, so in my opinion the whole fight to perfectly balance seems stupid, all classes have their strenghts and weaknesses in most mmo's, you cant expect a support class to defeat a dps or tank, the whole point to mmo's and classes to to have you group up with other players to cover each others weaknesses, all this crying for balance is annoying, and against the spirit of a mmo with classes

I understand their wish to allow all the classes to do everything well...

The problem is that Sorcerers are a known DPS class, people that started this game playing sorcerers expected to play DPS and out damage output is lower than all the other classes. That is what I don't understand. We are also not great healers... So... Are sorcerers supposed to be tanks? >.>

appearently not, no real good taunt skills, our shields getting nerfed


Appearently we are supposed to be the joke class, cannon fodder for gankers

Weng

Grao wrote: »

I am sorry, mostly what I am hearing in your post is "The speed buff is useful when you make mistakes". I think spells should be useful even if you don't make mistakes. There are better spells that give speed buffs, namely war horn.

Since when does war horn give a speed buff?

Grao

cpuScientist wrote: »

There is no point to uaig this class now over any other. The only redeeming quality left is OVERLOAD. And I freaking hate that ultimate, but gotta use it as that is the only way to generate decent DPS. Just need that one and be done with your complete killing of the class.

Did they ever got around fixing the bug with Overload or does it still get stuck in heavy attack mode if you use too many light attacks in a roll?

Minalan

STEVIL wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Metafae wrote: »

I play both a magicka sorc and stamina sorc.
The changes to Annulment are so great and basically make Conjured Ward obsolete, why not go all the way, and completely take this skill out of the game, and instead replace it with something creative and unique, something that will be able to morph into a stamina skill that will give stamina sorcs a decent edge.

I know it's not going to be a popular idea, but it just seems silly to keep Conjured Ward in the game after Annulment puts it to shame.

God please no. Annulment costs about 30% more magica than hardened, does not ward pets, is about 40% weaker in shieldstrengh when not using dampen magica with 7 light armor.

Hardened ward is still better than annulment / harness / dampen. Not by much but enough to matter.

post after post by sorcs cry "annulment totally trumps our ward now" until someone says "so just drop it for something useful and unique" then sorc start realizing "hey wait no ours is really better than annul"

Day 6 of playtest and the sun came up.

Harness still has more utility with the magicka return, and you can still cast it from hiding. The difference in strength isn't all that much: in PVP zones shields are halved, and then with points in bastion it's what, 1-2K?

The cost difference won't be all that noticeable when you get hit with a spell and absorb it. It'll only matter when repeat casting it to avoid a gank.

Sorry. Day six of the play test, and it still sucks.

Grao

w3ng_vgeb17_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

I am sorry, mostly what I am hearing in your post is "The speed buff is useful when you make mistakes". I think spells should be useful even if you don't make mistakes. There are better spells that give speed buffs, namely war horn.

Since when does war horn give a speed buff?

Oops, see, I haven't played in a while. I meant Rapid Maneuver! Sorry!

RoyJade

Grao wrote: »

Oops, see, I haven't played in a while. I meant Rapid Maneuver! Sorry!

You can't attack while under maneuver's boost, or you loose it. And rapids cost a lot of stamina, you can't cast it and cc-break/run, with thunder form you can.
Thunder form is good if you need to place/replace first. In MoL and sometimes in the other raids (when doing lamia against the Serpent, for example), this skill is awesome. And in pvp, I just can't play without it. Most stamsorc take boundless form instead of thundering presence just for the extra 3,5 seconds speed boost. With the change to thundering presence, it's even more the case.

Mettaricana

Give us a melee range chance of insta cast crystal frags like crystal fist or a crystal blade that shatters when you strike the enemy and the shards hit other nearby targets?

Up the expert mage passive to give 3% wep/spell dmg instead of 2%

Make pets scale on magicka or stam or atleast make one pet have a stam morph.

Ditcj bound armor for bound weapons on stam morph make it offer a toggled weapon skin of energy and like a 10% wep dmg and slotted the max 8% stam.


Just stop buffing magicka and tweaking them they were fine as is some giving love to magicka their update was theives guild this is staminas turn.

Grao

Mettaricana wrote: »

Give us a melee range chance of insta cast crystal frags like crystal fist or a crystal blade that shatters when you strike the enemy and the shards hit other nearby targets?

Up the expert mage passive to give 3% wep/spell dmg instead of 2%

Make pets scale on magicka or stam or atleast make one pet have a stam morph.

Ditcj bound armor for bound weapons on stam morph make it offer a toggled weapon skin of energy and like a 10% wep dmg and slotted the max 8% stam.


Just stop buffing magicka and tweaking them they were fine as is some giving love to magicka their update was theives guild this is staminas turn.

WHere are Magicka sorcs doing fine? We are still the lowest DPS of all magicka classes specially with this changes to Ward which will force us to spend points into health instead of magicka. Just like we are the lowest DPS with Stamina if I read this post correctly. Both need improvement as sorcerers are meant to be a DPS oriented class.

I have no problem with ZoS buffing the stamina sorc, but they should do it for Magicka sorcs as well. Don't be silly or so selfish

Grao

RoyJade wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Oops, see, I haven't played in a while. I meant Rapid Maneuver! Sorry!

You can't attack while under maneuver's boost, or you loose it. And rapids cost a lot of stamina, you can't cast it and cc-break/run, with thunder form you can.
Thunder form is good if you need to place/replace first. In MoL and sometimes in the other raids (when doing lamia against the Serpent, for example), this skill is awesome. And in pvp, I just can't play without it. Most stamsorc take boundless form instead of thundering presence just for the extra 3,5 seconds speed boost. With the change to thundering presence, it's even more the case.

Again, my problem with sorcs is in PvE, PvP I believe the class is alright, actually, it is because of PvP that we so often are forced to swallow nerfs to our best spells.
As for Maneuver, alright, I know it is not a perfect spell, but would you prefer a spell that is constantly outputting DPS around you or do you prefer to have this spell and occasionally use the speed buff, usually when the raid messes up?