Official Feedback Thread for Dragonknights

Recremen

quadraxis666 wrote: »

Recremen wrote: »

quadraxis666 wrote: »

Daraugh wrote: »

So could we please have a response about the projectile vomit animation that Noxious Breath has now? Along with the Searing Strike stam morph "poop claw" and the ultimate dubbed "rot flesh bubble"? There's a thread here that is also goes into a lot of discussion about the new animations.

@ZOS_GinaBruno when you have a moment? If one of those ever comes along lol

It really doesn't have a projectile vomit animation, your character does the exact same animation it always did for burning breath, all that's changed is instead of flame they have stolen the zombie mob puke effect, and it looks so ridiculous and out of place that I have no doubt it's a placeholder until they have the new effect ready.

Early days, the PTS hasn't even been up a week yet and there are a LOT of little unfinished looking things, this is surely one of them.

It does have the projectile vomit animation and it's not quite the zombie puke animation, I find it even more grotesque. It's a huge cone of both green vapor and small to medium splats of puke effect, all shooting out in less than a second like some kind of deranged Family Guy episode. It's completely out of touch with the class aesthetic, though I admit the damage type is fine since it's a decent boost to DPS.

Again it really doesn't have a projectile vomit animation, the character animation hasn't changed at all, just the effect coming from the character. They haven't created a new projectile puke animation which leads me to believe the current effect is a placeholder only, as I already said.
Just to be especially pedantic here's a video showing my Stam DK use Noxious Breath, then my Magicka DK use Engulfing Flame, Then both videos overlaid on top of eachother so you can watch both abilities in sync.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5gY62W19JA

The effect coming from the character is part of the animation, that is what we mean by projectile vomit. In both instances your character opens their mouth and kinda lunges forward, but in one flames come out and in the other one it's projectile vomit. The body position and movement is the same, sure, but that isn't the part people are upset about.

Loralai_907

I have spent a little time on a poison DK this week, and overall I like the idea. I agree that the visuals need to change. They are too dark. The color itself makes sense paired with poison, but, it is really hard to see especially in darker locations. The puke, at times I thought had not gone off because it blended in so well with the darkness around it. There needs to be osmething bright about it

I was able to pair the class skills that did poison with a few weapon skills that did poison, really focusing on pushing a poison build. It was fun, but I need to tweak some things to make it work better. I'll be honest, I didn't like it when I saw some fire abilities were now going to do poison damage. So I decided instead of being upset about it, I was going to run with it. Turns out, I like it a lot. I need to mess around with it some more yet, but I am thinking that I can easily use this on one character of mine in particular.

Toraf

Really 4-5 page of "blablabla poison animation is ugly"... They still not fix this *** DRAGON BLOOD ! (I know you're stamDK hum... sorry stamPK, you have vigor but not me)

FOR GOD SAKE ! fix it ! you poison boy !

And yes ! I'm really angry with that !

Ghost-Shot

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

When is dragons blood going to be fixed? It's currently being reduced by battle spirit which I know can't be intended...

Also can we get major evasion added to Cinder Storm and make it a PBAOE again without the double cast nonsense that doesn't work in lag? Oh one more thing, can we drop the empower from chains for a stun similar to invasion? There are plenty of ways to gain empower in the game already and the gap closer would be far more useful with a stun attached to it.

Ghost-Shot

@Wrobel Please see above comment.

Shadesofkin

I primarily play a Dragonknight, I don't roll other classes, at all.

So far on my Stam DK, I'm happy with the overall choice of making it poison but for goodness sake, fix that animation color. Bright Green, like the default color of Guild Chat. It needs to almost appear as if it has it's own source of light.

On my Magicka DK, I'm annoyed to lose my shield duration but the more I use it the more I find people tend to be correct it's barely lasting past the 6s mark, I still think 10s is preferred though.

Please for the love of heaven ignore anyone asking for Sea of Flames and its morphs to be changed back to how they were previously. Though I would like to see Cauterize given smart healing.

Armitas

Shadesofkin wrote: »

So far on my Stam DK, I'm happy with the overall choice of making it poison but for goodness sake, fix that animation color. Bright Green, like the default color of Guild Chat. It needs to almost appear as if it has it's own source of light.

Like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd6NntwUFVE

vortexman11

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

When is dragons blood going to be fixed? It's currently being reduced by battle spirit which I know can't be intended...

-Quoted to hopefully get a comment

Its funny that every second post in this whole thread is people saying Dragonblood needs to be fixed and some providing ideas of how it could be changed or revamped. Yet the devs blatantly ignore them.

Its true alot of things will never come back about Magicka DKs, we don't have our ultimate gain, we don't have stamina regen while blocking (other than helping hands), we don't have our infinite wings, igneous shield is good for shielding against half of a heavy attack now, Standard of Might costs too much, we don't apply a miss chance with ash cloud, and the list goes on. Yet you have hundreds of people that play Magicka DKs saying they'll be happy if you just fix ONE SKILL yet it is continuously avoided. Why? Every "buff" you guys gave Magicka DKs in the Thieves Guild patch could be reverted if you fixed dragonblood and 90% of us wouldn't mind, even after all of the changes to game mechanics that synergized so well with DKs as well as almost all of our class defining skills from 1.5 and earlier being rendered near useless or at least shells of their former self.

Why can't we even have a forum conversation about it? Is it because you guys think it would be overpowered or unbalanced? I see classes that can spam 10k+ shields and others that can heal themselves and others around them for 10k+ in a single click, so its nothing about balance. Is it because it'll be used by stamina DKs that already have access to vigor and rally? Nope, Dragonblood costs what on a stam build.... over 4,000 magicka? They'll cast it twice and be out. Can't we at least get a simple explanation as to why for every update since Imperial City this skill has been ignored?

Elfendary wrote: »

Here is an interesting thought, what if you tied in an execute into burning embers? If it is up and the target is below 20% health have it tick for more damage. I dont think we need it to be an execute on par with something like radiant destruction seeing that it would be a sort of a passive execute. But an execute is something the class could desperately use and this seems like an interesting idea for one. Thoughts?

When all magicka DKs used unstable flame which would increase in damage the longer it was on a target. It wasn't an execute but it was the closest comparison to what you are explaining.

Shadesofkin

Armitas wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

So far on my Stam DK, I'm happy with the overall choice of making it poison but for goodness sake, fix that animation color. Bright Green, like the default color of Guild Chat. It needs to almost appear as if it has it's own source of light.

Like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yd6NntwUFVE

Pretty much exactly like that.

Armitas

vortexman11 wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

When is dragons blood going to be fixed? It's currently being reduced by battle spirit which I know can't be intended...

-Quoted to hopefully get a comment

Its funny that every second post in this whole thread is people saying Dragonblood needs to be fixed and some providing ideas of how it could be changed or revamped. Yet the devs blatantly ignore them.


Why can't we even have a forum conversation about it? Is it because you guys think it would be overpowered or unbalanced? I see classes that can spam 10k+ shields and others that can heal themselves and others around them for 10k+ in a single click, so its nothing about balance. Is it because it'll be used by stamina DKs that already have access to vigor and rally? Nope, Dragonblood costs what on a stam build.... over 4,000 magicka? They'll cast it twice and be out. Can't we at least get a simple explanation as to why for every update since Imperial City this skill has been ignored?

Armitas wrote: »

DragonBlood - Why is this still not fixed? The only use for it is the sub buffs that coagulating provides for synergizing Draw essence into your primary heal. But look at what blessing of restoration does compared to Dragon blood.

• Costs a lot less
• The heal can Crit
• Heals others
• Doesn't have a diminishing returns on healing to full
• Doesn't require you to be at deaths door to be a valuable heal
• Heals for more in all but the most extreme levels of low health using dragon blood, but even so a single restoration crit will heal for more.
• Adds armor to anyone it heals including yourself.

We have been bringing this up passionately and prominently for a YEAR now, why can we never get a conversation with you guys about anything. Why is everything done behind the OZ curtain of silence?

slumber_sandb16_ESO

Power Slam needs some tinkering.

It does a little more damage than puncture but over twice the stamina cost. Been trying it while wearing heavy armour leaning more to DPS than tank and the damage isnt good at all for the huge stamina cost.
I'd suggest:

Increase damage by quite a significant amount to justify the huge stamina cost or greatly reduce stamina cost when the on block effect is triggered. When blocking you do 25% more damage with the next power slam and its cost is reduced by 50% or something. If its going to be a pure damage skill for sword and board then make it more spammable.

Hutch679

I'm just tired of using a resto staff, but dragons blood sucks as it is in pvp... Guess I'll just keep spamming harness magicka/healing ward

Runkorko

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

A poison standard ( all 3 variants should be 200 ulti, not only shifting ) would be nice in exchange for turning one of the leap morphs to magic.

A poison standard? there is NO such thing (all 3 morphs do fire dmg

vortexman11 wrote: »

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

@Wrobel @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

When is dragons blood going to be fixed? It's currently being reduced by battle spirit which I know can't be intended...

-Quoted to hopefully get a comment

Its funny that every second post in this whole thread is people saying Dragonblood needs to be fixed and some providing ideas of how it could be changed or revamped. Yet the devs blatantly ignore them.

Its true alot of things will never come back about Magicka DKs, we don't have our ultimate gain, we don't have stamina regen while blocking (other than helping hands), we don't have our infinite wings, igneous shield is good for shielding against half of a heavy attack now, Standard of Might costs too much, we don't apply a miss chance with ash cloud, and the list goes on. Yet you have hundreds of people that play Magicka DKs saying they'll be happy if you just fix ONE SKILL yet it is continuously avoided. Why? Every "buff" you guys gave Magicka DKs in the Thieves Guild patch could be reverted if you fixed dragonblood and 90% of us wouldn't mind, even after all of the changes to game mechanics that synergized so well with DKs as well as almost all of our class defining skills from 1.5 and earlier being rendered near useless or at least shells of their former self.

Why can't we even have a forum conversation about it? Is it because you guys think it would be overpowered or unbalanced? I see classes that can spam 10k+ shields and others that can heal themselves and others around them for 10k+ in a single click, so its nothing about balance. Is it because it'll be used by stamina DKs that already have access to vigor and rally? Nope, Dragonblood costs what on a stam build.... over 4,000 magicka? They'll cast it twice and be out. Can't we at least get a simple explanation as to why for every update since Imperial City this skill has been ignored?

Elfendary wrote: »

Here is an interesting thought, what if you tied in an execute into burning embers? If it is up and the target is below 20% health have it tick for more damage. I dont think we need it to be an execute on par with something like radiant destruction seeing that it would be a sort of a passive execute. But an execute is something the class could desperately use and this seems like an interesting idea for one. Thoughts?

When all magicka DKs used unstable flame which would increase in damage the longer it was on a target. It wasn't an execute but it was the closest comparison to what you are explaining.

Toc de Malsvi

Does Molten Weapons and morphs still bring you out of stealth? Why? This should be fixed, I should not be able to heal myself with Rally and Vigor and buff myself with Rally and Hardened armor and Shuffle but not buff myself with Molten Weapons without popping out of stealth.

Recremen

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Does Molten Weapons and morphs still bring you out of stealth? Why? This should be fixed, I should not be able to heal myself with Rally and Vigor and buff myself with Rally and Hardened armor and Shuffle but not buff myself with Molten Weapons without popping out of stealth.

Yes please x20. Tired of choosing between my group's safety and a self-buff for 40% heavy attack damage. I mean yeah technically it gives Major Sorcery to the group as well but I know exactly zero people who run it for that buff, since the entire group has easy and better ways of getting it.

Ishammael

Armitas wrote: »

DragonBlood - Why is this still not fixed? The only use for it is the sub buffs that coagulating provides for synergizing Draw essence into your primary heal. But look at what blessing of restoration does compared to Dragon blood.

• Costs a lot less
• The heal can Crit
• Heals others
• Doesn't have a diminishing returns on healing to full
• Doesn't require you to be at deaths door to be a valuable heal
• Heals for more in all but the most extreme levels of low health using dragon blood, but even so a single restoration crit will heal for more.
• Adds armor to anyone it heals including yourself.

The comparison is even worse against Healing Ward, Honor the Dead / BoL, Hardened Ward, Sap Essence, etc.

The Templar House is gonna be legitimately scary next patch: Mending, slow, damage, and purge.

Mic1007

Igneous Weapons isn't granting Major Brutality for some reason. It just grants Major Sorcery. Mountain's Blessing still gives me Minor Brutality, though.

FearlessOne_2014

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

As breton stam dk because of lore reasons ( i want to be a kickass knight in shiny armour ) i think the problem of dunmer is that they picked them because of their fire boost over redguard, wood elve or khajiit which buff stamina, but now that fire racial is useless to them and have to deal with the rather weak other traits and since there is no race change, they can't archieve max min like before and since rerolling cost a lot of time ( leveling, new gear, skill points and so on ) they are rather upset.

Yes, everyone gets buffs while stamina races give bonus to stam on top of it. Dunmer went from an optimal choice to a suboptimal now.

Not trying to defend that, just trying to understand their problem.

As yall said to the sorcs crying in their thread I'll say to you here too damn bad, deal with it. Atleast DK is getting buffed from top tier'ed damage to now GOD tier'ed damage and yall have the nerve to be crying. Lol yall make me laugh.

PS# That being said I will be joining in on the GOD tier'ed damage that stam dk now has to offer sense ZOS and non Sorc players give no care about balance. GG

Justice31st

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_Finn @ZOS_RichLambert I understand that in Dragon lore Green Dragons were poisonous, but why can't they just change the red fire animation to green fire? Green Flame!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WRKWscLYf8

SteLuppi91

Pls, Cauterize as a self-healing!completely useless/no sense Skill for solo play!

Shadesofkin

SteLuppi91 wrote: »

Pls, Cauterize as a self-healing!completely useless/no sense Skill for solo play!

It really just needs to be a smart heal that heals whomever is lower, if that means the player then so be it.

Armitas

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

As breton stam dk because of lore reasons ( i want to be a kickass knight in shiny armour ) i think the problem of dunmer is that they picked them because of their fire boost over redguard, wood elve or khajiit which buff stamina, but now that fire racial is useless to them and have to deal with the rather weak other traits and since there is no race change, they can't archieve max min like before and since rerolling cost a lot of time ( leveling, new gear, skill points and so on ) they are rather upset.

Yes, everyone gets buffs while stamina races give bonus to stam on top of it. Dunmer went from an optimal choice to a suboptimal now.

Not trying to defend that, just trying to understand their problem.

As yall said to the sorcs crying in their thread I'll say to you here too damn bad, deal with it. Atleast DK is getting buffed from top tier'ed damage to now GOD tier'ed damage and yall have the nerve to be crying. Lol yall make me laugh.

PS# That being said I will be joining in on the GOD tier'ed damage that stam dk now has to offer sense ZOS and non Sorc players give no care about balance. GG

Could have at least given us a deal with it meme to go with that.

Integral1900

Its great that stam DK is getting some attention but dear lord what have they done to the fire breathing. They turned my beloved DK into a puke knight!!!!

When they talked about green fire I was under the impression that it was going to be neon green, wow I thought, that would look great and all the art department would have to do would be take the flames and paste a green light filter over the top. But what we got is making me queasy, the DK I spent so long designing, getting her to look just right as an armour plated fire breathing powerhouse now looks like she is emptying her breakfast all over the enemy.

I'm all for the ability changes but why on earth would you use such an ugly effect? Please, please, please don't do this, on my knees I beg you don't make her a vomit DK

If its to late then please buff that new Pelinal’s Aptitude set so that at least I can have some magicka as a back up to stamina, I know I will still be well below par but at least I will still have the use of a 2h weapon with fire breathing effects on the side, I will happily sacrifice hitting power not to have to use that puke animation.

Yes I know I could go all magicka but I play a dragon KNIGHT not a mage

Teridaxus

FearlessOne_2014 wrote: »

mzapkeneb18_ESO wrote: »

As breton stam dk because of lore reasons ( i want to be a kickass knight in shiny armour ) i think the problem of dunmer is that they picked them because of their fire boost over redguard, wood elve or khajiit which buff stamina, but now that fire racial is useless to them and have to deal with the rather weak other traits and since there is no race change, they can't archieve max min like before and since rerolling cost a lot of time ( leveling, new gear, skill points and so on ) they are rather upset.

Yes, everyone gets buffs while stamina races give bonus to stam on top of it. Dunmer went from an optimal choice to a suboptimal now.

Not trying to defend that, just trying to understand their problem.

As yall said to the sorcs crying in their thread I'll say to you here too damn bad, deal with it. Atleast DK is getting buffed from top tier'ed damage to now GOD tier'ed damage and yall have the nerve to be crying. Lol yall make me laugh.

PS# That being said I will be joining in on the GOD tier'ed damage that stam dk now has to offer sense ZOS and non Sorc players give no care about balance. GG

@FearlessOne_2014

I think you replied to the wrong person.

LinearParadox

Okay, feedback time.

First off, I'd like to throw in with the rest of the lot, the new stam morph of flame breath is utterly disgusting, looks like chunky projectile vomit and on top of being revolting, has a negative impact on the appearance of the class. As someone said previously on here, the words DRAGON and KNIGHT often imply a certain majesty, valor, poise, dignity, etc. Not spewing poison/bile/whatever on your foes. PLEASE change it to a green flame as others have said, which would be exceedingly easy from an art perspective, a simple green filter over the existing effects would work great. If you're dead set on not using flames, please use something like a poison CLOUD or MIST so it looks like BREATH, something like the effects of the Vampire Mist Form would work great.
The Flame Slash morph looks alright since it's on a lesser scale and kinda makes sense with the theme of venomous/poisoned claws, but the breath is just... makes me not even wanna use the ability anymore it's so awful. Additionally, it's extremely hard to see. Was testing at nighttime in-game and, with the lack of sound effects as well right now, was nearly impossible to see the ability go off, which could have unintended effects on balance and counter-play in PvP scenerios.
Please change it. Seriously.

Other changes:
Ardent Flame passive changes; Nothing to report here, reasonable adjustments to adapt to the skill morphs.
Corrosive Armor; fantastic. Fits thematically and synergizes with the Stamina builds well.
Fossilize; tbh I never really used this skill but I don't see much of a change. In PvP all CC is broken immediately whenever possible so CC duration is pretty much non-sequitur in my opinion.
Fragmented shield; a 30% increase on a trivial amount of damage doesn't seem like much to me, but honestly I've never heard of anyone running it so I'm not sure what that changes.
Obsidian Shield; duration decrease is totally irrelevant since the shield size is so trivial in both PvP and PvE it doesn't last longer than 1-2 hits/seconds anyway, and people only use it for the Major Mending buff for either self-sustain synergy or as the off-build healer DK.

Feedback OUTSIDE the patch changes
Dragon Blood; PLEASE... do something with this ability. Either alter the way this skill plays with Battle Spirit, or re-work it entirely. It's so dysfunctional it's not even funny. It's a %health based heal in a game environment where there is almost no value, or scaling, to increasing health(which is a different issue entirely) but even if that weren't the case, you'd still have an EXTREMELY costly skill that's only good for one thing, a massive heal at low health, a high-risk high-reward playstyle or an OH **** panic heal to save yourself. it works for NEITHER in PvP, as the pitiful heal, if you're lucky enough to get it off before you die and not get CC'd, is barely enough to save you from a single execute skill in this high-DPS meta, and guess what, there's ANOTHER execute skill coming right after it. So you what, heal again? and again? A high-health tanky build is only gonna be able to cast that 3-4 times in a row MAX and if you've got enough resources to cast the skill more than that chances are your max health is low so the heal is awful anyway. It's simply dysfunctional.
Now, as someone who has a VR16 DK who is EXTREMELY tanky, I'm well aware of the dangers of creating an 'immortal' DK by adding a high burst heal on top of their other numerous forms of mitigation but if that's really the problem, please just rework the skill and change it entirely, because as it stands they're basically just missing a skill from that line.
Draw Essence; Please tweak this ability so that casting it again before the 'exhale' (flame damage) part triggers, doesn't CANCEL the flame burst and therefore the resource return. It just seems silly to me. Lingering Ritual(Templar 'clap heal') can be cast multiple times and the 'echoing' heal after 8 seconds STACKS so that it'll still trigger, why can't this? It would be enormously helpful in PvE, and I don't think it'd make a big difference in PvP because lets face it, if you're getting 6v1'd resource return isn't gonna be the first thing on your mind, nor is the slightly higher HPS of being able to cast it back-to-back efficiently going to matter much against the DPS of multiple player characters who're likely doing upwards of 10K DPS each. You're dead either way, so I don't think it'd cause an issue in PvP.
Dragonknight Standard; Please consider making one of this Ultimate's morphs a stamina/poison morph. Shifting Standard makes the most sense to me - it's movable to re-orient for DPS and/or PvP applications and that leaves Standard of Might to scale with magicka along with most of the other healing/mitigation abilities of the DK thereby fitting in with the theme there.

(Edited for typos)

Ghost-Shot

@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_MattFiror

Dragons blood desperately needs to be fixed, as stated multiple times in this thread this ability CAN NOT be mitigated by battle spirit, how can you possibly justify healing for 16.5% of our MISSING health to be reasonable? Even with major mending you will heal for 21% of your missing health, even if you stack high hp its still a garbage heal and now you do *** for damage because you've invested so much into hp and healing taken.

Ishammael

Ghost-Shot wrote: »

@Wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_MattFiror

Dragons blood desperately needs to be fixed, as stated multiple times in this thread this ability CAN NOT be mitigated by battle spirit, how can you possibly justify healing for 16.5% of our MISSING health to be reasonable? Even with major mending you will heal for 21% of your missing health, even if you stack high hp its still a garbage heal and now you do *** for damage because you've invested so much into hp and healing taken.

Agreed.

Vigor ticks are in the 2 - 3k range for well-built stamina classes. Vigor last 5s!

One press of DB can only achieve 3k if I am... wait for it... missing more than 18k HP.

Please explain how this is balanced.

TheSpaceWhale

Adding in my 2 cents that the Noxious Breath animation needs to be revamped. It would probably be better off as green flame, or at least without wet gooey chunks. The color could be a bit brighter but I don't really want bright neon green. It's also virtually invisible in first-person, only appearing at the very bottom of the screen. The Venomous Claw animation looks pretty good IMO.

While we're at it, could we also get Choking Talons changed from fire at the base to some dark clouds or make it somewhat poison-themed? I feel like this animation has never really fit, and with the poison changes some re-skinning would really make the whole "poison knight" thing feel comprehensive.

Ghost-Shot

@Wrobel Its really nice to have the quick cast option now to avoid the clunky casting of abilities like cinder storm, but can we get major evasion added to that ability now? It was always one of the DK's best defensive tools. And can you fix dragons blood while you're at it?

Ghost-Shot

@Zheg could you come work your magic hear? I'm not sure what it takes to get a response from devs, teach me senpai.