Official Feedback Thread for Enchanting

Rune_Relic

Add my pitchfork and torch to the rest.
Sorry ZOS. This is bad. Real bad.

We gather....to craft. And now we cant do that anymore beacuse you stuck "fundamental" crafting requirements behind a paywall.

ContraTempo

I like the idea of getting rid of potency runes entirely. Instead having -/+ (add or subtract) runes with the level of the resulting glyph being dependent on the level of the enchanter's skill.

CP5

ContraTempo wrote: »

I like the idea of getting rid of potency runes entirely. Instead having -/+ (add or subtract) runes with the level of the resulting glyph being dependent on the level of the enchanter's skill.

And that would effectively deny players the ability to make a vast majority of glyphs. Not everyone is max level.

Epona222

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

SpAEkus wrote: »

So can we at least hear why this change was made before we try to decide what the good or bad is about it?

If we at least knew why you made the change maybe we could offer the best input to help understand what this is supposed to accomplish.

And as of today my Hirelings are still delivering Potency based on their current Passives.

@ZOS_GinaBruno, are there any changes to Hirelings expected with this or any other Craft Material changes?

my guess as to the "why" is that the location of the removed Runes has now been taken up be replacing them with the new mats for making poisons, e.g. Nightshade

as for your hirelings...I see no reason why they should not still deliver Potency Runes for you

Well that isn't the case, Nightshade spawns in an existing plant node location. They haven't replaced potency node spawns with nightshade spawns, the nightshade is in the same table as blessed thistle, ladies smock etc. just with a lower chance than other existing plants. They haven't removed rune spawn points to make way for nightshade, node spawns don't even work like that. Putting nightshade in to potentially spawn anywhere in the world is seriously just adding one line to the drop table for that EXISTING alchemy plant node type (I think there are 3 types of plant nodes that basically translate as next to water, grasslands, and toadstools), and it happens across all of Tamriel. Which is exactly how they got Nightshade into the world, it's not spawning in place of potency runes.

And reverting rune nodes back to the way they are currently on live would also be not too complicated.

ContraTempo

CP5 wrote: »

ContraTempo wrote: »

I like the idea of getting rid of potency runes entirely. Instead having -/+ (add or subtract) runes with the level of the resulting glyph being dependent on the level of the enchanter's skill.

And that would effectively deny players the ability to make a vast majority of glyphs. Not everyone is max level.

I specifically said the enchanter's SKILL.

The level of Potency runes you can use now -- and therefore the level of glyph you can make -- is already dependent on the enchanter's skill. This would just make that connection direct instead of indirect through potency runes.

MissBizz

ContraTempo wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

ContraTempo wrote: »

I like the idea of getting rid of potency runes entirely. Instead having -/+ (add or subtract) runes with the level of the resulting glyph being dependent on the level of the enchanter's skill.

And that would effectively deny players the ability to make a vast majority of glyphs. Not everyone is max level.

I specifically said the enchanter's SKILL.

The level of Potency runes you can use now -- and therefore the level of glyph you can make -- is already dependent on the enchanter's skill. This would just make that connection direct instead of indirect through potency runes.

@ContraTempo How would you make a glyph that is lower level than you? Such as making armor for a guildmate or alt, or even selling it (crafting services)

templesus

How much AP are reporas from the ap enchanting vendor?

alu-fleurb16_ESO

here come my 2 cents:

farming potency runes, especially repora (less itade) is really annoying on live servers already. lots and lots of the (former to be) v15 crap runes fill the spots but i take them and the "beloved" ta's to skill enchanting on my alts. works perfectly alright for me.
but:
i'm not willing to spend 2.508 gold for one single runestone! are you crazy guys?? a full set of max-whatever (former to be v16) will cost me around 33.000 gold just for 1 of 3 runestones i need for all glyphs ....NO THANK YOU!
if you need to build up an money sink expense the repaircosts but don't you dare remove crafting materials....

whats next? columbine? or lady's smock? maybe red meat or garlic?
this is a door you shouldn't open at all.

even putting them in nodes by 1/3 chance is a nightmare for every last crafter... remember... (former to be) v15 runestones share this spot...
put them in the vendor's store like provisioning mats, trait stones and style materials, but there are a lot - and i mean really a lot - of (smaller and bigger) things that need attending but the farming/crafting section must be left untouched.

after reading 80% of this thread i'm certain until release of dark brotherhood (which i'm really excited about) you have determined you need to leave the crafting materials and their nodes alone.
listen to your community.
listen to the people who play and that game.
listen to those who spend money (each month or occasionally) to support this very lovely game.

it's not that hard to admit having made a mistake that should not make it to live.

Jennifur_Vultee

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for your feedback on the change to Potency runes. The adjustments to runestone harvestables were made to streamline the process of gathering the necessary materials to craft glyphs. These changes ensure that every single harvest can translate into a completed glyph, with the crafter having control over which level (and polarity) of glyph is created by way of purchasing the desired potency runestone from the vendor. This change, combined with the increased weapon glyph power and the ability to apply lower level glyphs to higher level pieces of equipment is to encourage additional participation with the enchanting system, which has been found to be significantly lower than other tradeskills.

That said, we understand there’s also some frustration over the price of these. We’re keeping an eye on feedback and metrics, and will adjust as needed.

Removing potency runes from the world and placing them in a gold sink after two years is just a bad design decision in action. There is absolutely no reason to "streamline the process" as you put it, its working fine as is.

In my opinion the reason many people don't participate in enchanting isn't because they can't buy potency runes but rather the fact that it literally takes forever to level enchanting to level 50, its simply the hardest crafting line to level. I've leveled 3 enchanters to 50 but without having access to high level VR glyphs to break down for experience it takes a very, very long time to get enchanting to 50 and it puts people off. The slow leveling progress is an enchanting complaint I've heard in game from friends and in zone chat.

What will put me off enchanting as a level 50 enchanter and I believe what will put of a new low level player wanting to enchant is having runes behind a pay wall. Imagine Gina you are a player new to ESO, you decide you want to try enchanting but find yourself with limited gold as new players are often short gold for everything. If you have to decide between say saving 10k for a horse (or daily feeding your horse if you have the Imperial Edition for example), repairing your gear, upgrading your bag space or spending what little gold you have on buying runes...what would you do? Why not go the extra step and make enchanting the elite pay to win crafting profession by removing all potency runes currently in game and placing them in the Crown store?

ContraTempo

MissBizz wrote: »

ContraTempo wrote: »

CP5 wrote: »

ContraTempo wrote: »

I like the idea of getting rid of potency runes entirely. Instead having -/+ (add or subtract) runes with the level of the resulting glyph being dependent on the level of the enchanter's skill.

And that would effectively deny players the ability to make a vast majority of glyphs. Not everyone is max level.

I specifically said the enchanter's SKILL.

The level of Potency runes you can use now -- and therefore the level of glyph you can make -- is already dependent on the enchanter's skill. This would just make that connection direct instead of indirect through potency runes.

@ContraTempo How would you make a glyph that is lower level than you? Such as making armor for a guildmate or alt, or even selling it (crafting services)

Good question. I say keep it simple and remove the lower limit. So a lvl 40 armor glyph could be applied to any armor lvl 40 or less. EDIT: I assume if you apply a LvL 40 glyph to a LvL 10 sword, that glyph would scale so it had the same effects as a LvL 10 glyph.

NordSwordnBoard

Jennifur_Vultee wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for your feedback on the change to Potency runes. The adjustments to runestone harvestables were made to streamline the process of gathering the necessary materials to craft glyphs. These changes ensure that every single harvest can translate into a completed glyph, with the crafter having control over which level (and polarity) of glyph is created by way of purchasing the desired potency runestone from the vendor. This change, combined with the increased weapon glyph power and the ability to apply lower level glyphs to higher level pieces of equipment is to encourage additional participation with the enchanting system, which has been found to be significantly lower than other tradeskills.

That said, we understand there’s also some frustration over the price of these. We’re keeping an eye on feedback and metrics, and will adjust as needed.

"...participation with the enchanting system, which has been found to be significantly lower than other tradeskills."

This is partly because there is no random drop 280% bonus available from deconstructing runes. Its slower going than others, so maybe adding 280% runes in more often is better than making people pay for them.

Making people pay for something that was previously free is almost never a "convenience".

jknight201

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Enchanting. We’ve removed the Potency Runestones from nodes, and put them on the Enchanting vendors instead. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Is it easy to tell where to get these now?
• Does it feel easier to start from scratch to make a rune?
• How does it feel to put lower-level enchants on higher-level gear?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

1. Easy to tell where to get these?

Not really. I only knew because I read the forums. Maybe update the enchanting tutorial?

2. Easier to make a rune?

No. No difference, only I have to spend gold to get the potency rune, and those weren't the hardest ones to get even before the patch. If you want to make it easy to create a rune, then have the vendors sell each type of rune, AND allow players to farm them in the world as well - if they don't want to buy them from the vendors.

3. Low level enchants on high level gear

I like the idea, for testing or as a stop-gap measure. However, I think it would be more useful if the max level, gold runes were more rare and more valuable (powerful).

4. Other feedback

I really don't like the change of having to buy a particular type of rune from vendors. I think it's bad game design, and bad for the game. Not to mention just another gold sink we don't really need.

ContraTempo

@MissBizz, here is, perhaps a more coherent explanation of the idea for a simplified system (not my idea, BTW, but I like it):

• Making a glyph would require Essence, Aspect, and POLARITY runes.
• A Polarity rune would either be - (Decrescent) or + (Increscent) and thus would replace the polarity function of the old potency runes.
• The level of the rune made would depend on the Potency Improvement skill of the enchanter. This skill remains the same as it is now, but it applies directly to the glyph, instead of through potency runes.
  • Any glyph could be applied to any level of gear.
  • If applied to lower level gear, the power of the glyph would scale down to the level of the gear.
  • If applied to higher level gear the power of the glyph would NOT scale up.

Example: An enchanter who can make lvl 40 glyphs makes a flame glyph (Rakeipa + Kuta + Increscent):

• Applied to a lvl 40 sword it would add 238 flame damage, just as it does now.
• Applied to a lvl 10 sword it would only add 99 flame damage, the same as if a lvl 10 glyph were applied.
• Applied to a lvl 50 sword it would still add 238 flame damage since damage can't exceed the lvl of the glyph.

Existing potency runes would be converted to Decrescent or Increscent. Enchanters would be able to make the same level glyphs they can now but would not have to worry about finding the right level of potency runes. This should result in a minimum of disruption for enchanters.

SpAEkus

I have been reading a lot of the suggestions for changing the entire Potency Rune - Glyph Crafting System.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the IP per Craft-Decon.

I've run the craft-swap-decon completely for 2.4.0 and 2.4.1 and nothing has changed since the last two DLC.

The IP returns are at least half of the length (difficulty) in leveling now. Its completely math driven and we know how much raw materials we have to source.

For all these new system ideas, are they taking IP return into account? Or all based on the current returns? I haven't run the current IP against ZOS vendor prices but I will after 2.4.2 when I spot check IP.

Even with a new Enchanting system, leveling will be just as hard unless we get more IP somehow.

mr_wazzabi

lordrichter wrote: »

Epona222 wrote: »

Could they not do that by having the node despawn after the interaction was finished (ie the player exits from interaction with the node) instead of when the contents were taken? Something I've wanted for ages, so sick of people leaving crud that they do not want to take in nodes/chests/troves.

Well, that would be bad. If they did that, you would have no opportunity to clean out a spot in your inventory and then reopen the node to get what you could not take. Instead, they start a timer after the node is closed. If the node is still around when that timer expires, the node goes away. The time is measured in minutes and is, according to many, too long.

I can't see them going to all of this work to try and solve the "left behind Ta" problem, while leaving the "left behind bait" problem in other nodes and not actually solving the Ta problem.

I go back to my statement above. This is about making top tier enchantments more expensive and harder to obtain. They only way to do that is to control the Potency market and charge insane prices.

ZOS: Possible solution. Change enchanting so that more than one Potency rune is needed. I get that this can't be done in Dark Brotherhood, but consider it before you drop this on us. That way, you can charge 1 Potency for the common Potency runes, and 1 million Potency for the top tier (or some suitably large number).

Noooooo.

I want full kuta on all my toons without spending millions or making farming in the game a full time job.

The requirement of 1 kuta is good. In my experience it's just as hard to find 1 kuta as 10 tempering allows.

S'yn

Enchanting was not broken. Please just leave it alone. If you want to give people the option of purchasing a potency rune from a vendor, that's fine (but it will kinda screw anyone trying to sell them in the guild store for anything over what a vendor charges...)

This can only be bad for game economy. There are basically 16 pages of "please don't do this..." That probably means people are against this change- so don't make it!

Elsonso

S'yn wrote: »

Enchanting was not broken. Please just leave it alone. If you want to give people the option of purchasing a potency rune from a vendor, that's fine (but it will kinda screw anyone trying to sell them in the guild store for anything over what a vendor charges...)

This can only be bad for game economy. There are basically 16 pages of "please don't do this..." That probably means people are against this change- so don't make it!

Personally, I think that this water is already over the dam. However, be aware that they have said that they will make a change to add in Potency to make some of the nodes (1/3rd of them) contain one of each. That is where where I think it will stay for a good long time, just because they have it in their head to change it, have done the work, and don't want to go back.

What is sad is that they actually had an interesting method to start with, what with the different colored glowing rune nodes. It was simple, easy to understand, easy to teach, and easy to explain. For whatever reason, they are going with a more complicated method that is not as simple. It is not as simple to explain what people will get in a node when they farm it.

It is sad to see them actually replace work that they have already done, that was actually working, and interesting, with something like what they are going to do in Dark Brotherhood.

It makes me wonder whether the original architect of enchanting has left the studio, and the person who took it over is not quite as good as the person who originally did it.

Vandercat

BenevolentBowd wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

BenevolentBowd wrote: »

I went onto the PTS a little earlier today to try writs and noticed my rune hoard was missing. Is this a bug or intended?

@BenevolentBowd Did you go through all your characters and see if any of your characters can see the runes?

I cycled through my characters as suggested and it appeared to help: a lot more runes appeared in the bag. However, I am definitely missing some. I'm showing only 1 kuta and always have some of those on hand to sell if I have a slow week on the trader and need to make quota.

Did we ever get an answer for this? Mine have all disappeared except for the ones I picked up tonight.

Enodoc

Vandercat wrote: »

BenevolentBowd wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

BenevolentBowd wrote: »

I went onto the PTS a little earlier today to try writs and noticed my rune hoard was missing. Is this a bug or intended?

BenevolentBowd Did you go through all your characters and see if any of your characters can see the runes?

I cycled through my characters as suggested and it appeared to help: a lot more runes appeared in the bag. However, I am definitely missing some. I'm showing only 1 kuta and always have some of those on hand to sell if I have a slow week on the trader and need to make quota.

Did we ever get an answer for this? Mine have all disappeared except for the ones I picked up tonight.

@Vandercat If it is related to mats disppearing from ESO Plus crafting bags, there was a bug that meant that if you created a template character after logging into a copied character, all mats that were moved into crafting bags (including runes) from the copied characters were deleted.

Elsonso

Enodoc wrote: »

Vandercat wrote: »

BenevolentBowd wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

BenevolentBowd wrote: »

I went onto the PTS a little earlier today to try writs and noticed my rune hoard was missing. Is this a bug or intended?

BenevolentBowd Did you go through all your characters and see if any of your characters can see the runes?

I cycled through my characters as suggested and it appeared to help: a lot more runes appeared in the bag. However, I am definitely missing some. I'm showing only 1 kuta and always have some of those on hand to sell if I have a slow week on the trader and need to make quota.

Did we ever get an answer for this? Mine have all disappeared except for the ones I picked up tonight.

@Vandercat If it is related to mats disppearing from ESO Plus crafting bags, there was a bug that meant that if you created a template character after logging into a copied character, all mats that were moved into crafting bags (including runes) from the copied characters were deleted.

It is very important that all crafting materials be documented prior to running Dark Brotherhood the first time. Screen shots from each character. I know that I will be documenting all my characters on May 30 in preparation for DB. ZOS track record with stuff like this is not exactly stellar, and migration issues like this are notoriously hard to consistently test for and debug.

They are probably thinking that the problem with item loss was due to the templates. Now that the template bug is fixed, hopefully, there were people on EU that thought to document their stuff for PTS this week. We need more than the "I am sure I had this" type of statements. If there is a bug, we need proof or ZOS will have no reason to take the reports seriously enough to guarantee a fix before Live.

Jennifur_Vultee

I had a thought about this change to crafting last night, here is what I think is happening or was/is the plan.

Step 1 - Remove potency runes from world making them rare once the current supply runs low.

Step 2 - Place potency runes behind a gold sink in vendors getting people used to the idea of paying for them.

Step 3 - Later, for convenience, introduce potency mimic runes into the crown shop that can be used to create any level glyph.

newlife

Add a chance of extracting a potency rune when deconstructing gear that was player enchanted/crafted and can be buffed with passive.

BenevolentBowd

Enodoc wrote: »

Vandercat wrote: »

BenevolentBowd wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

BenevolentBowd wrote: »

I went onto the PTS a little earlier today to try writs and noticed my rune hoard was missing. Is this a bug or intended?

BenevolentBowd Did you go through all your characters and see if any of your characters can see the runes?

I cycled through my characters as suggested and it appeared to help: a lot more runes appeared in the bag. However, I am definitely missing some. I'm showing only 1 kuta and always have some of those on hand to sell if I have a slow week on the trader and need to make quota.

Did we ever get an answer for this? Mine have all disappeared except for the ones I picked up tonight.

@Vandercat If it is related to mats disppearing from ESO Plus crafting bags, there was a bug that meant that if you created a template character after logging into a copied character, all mats that were moved into crafting bags (including runes) from the copied characters were deleted.

This may have been what happened to me. I did create a new template character.

Divinius

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Enchanting

• All Enchanting Runes can now be sold to vendors for at least 1 gold.
• Potency runes can once again be obtained from runestones!
  • Each harvestable runestone is guaranteed to contain an Essence and an Aspect rune, and one third of the runestones you find will also contain a Potency rune.
  • Half the time, when you find a Potency rune it will be scaled to your combat level, and the other half of the time it will be scaled to your rank in the Potency Improvement passive.

Just for the record, potency runes have officially been put back into the (now universal) enchanting harvest nodes.

I'm really hoping that the Potency run scaling only applies in scaled node zones like the DLC areas, and not everywhere...

DMBCML

newtinmpls wrote: »

And of course the big bad Pink Elephant in the room that I missed... that my sweetie pointed out last night

Enchanting isn't used much because it's a $%#%^$$ to level up, even more so since the XP for deconning "made" glyphs got nerfed.

So boost that some.

Enchanting seems to me to be the one challenge craft in all the crafts. It should stay just the way it is. They already made it easier once. I've done three enchanters and am about to do a third. Many people have done them and are rewarded for their effort both in satisfaction for completing a hard task that few are wiling to complete, also because it is not fast and simple, enchanters have a source of income as a reward for their work.

Anyone can level an enchanter in just a couple of hours if they have a friend and the resources. I've helped three people do that from start to finish, and helped other people in various stages.

DMBCML

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Add my pitchfork and torch to the rest.
Sorry ZOS. This is bad. Real bad.

We gather....to craft. And now we cant do that anymore beacuse you stuck "fundamental" crafting requirements behind a paywall.

This is quite true. I play to craft. All crafts. That's the first thing I did in the beta and at launch. I leveled all my crafts and didn't really care about anything else other than the requirements to level crafting. I still don't have a lvl v16 character even two years in on my sub. I log in almost every day just to craft or gather resources for crafting. Anything else I do is something on the side.

DMBCML

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Enchanting. We’ve removed the Potency Runestones from nodes, and put them on the Enchanting vendors instead. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• Is it easy to tell where to get these now?
• Does it feel easier to start from scratch to make a rune?
• How does it feel to put lower-level enchants on higher-level gear?
• Do you have any other general feedback?

Enchanting was the one thing that was perfect the way it was. Please put it back the way it was. Instead of messing with enchanting and ruining the game for crafters, how about working on jewelry making? That would be time better spent.

Enodoc

Divinius wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Enchanting

• All Enchanting Runes can now be sold to vendors for at least 1 gold.
• Potency runes can once again be obtained from runestones!
  • Each harvestable runestone is guaranteed to contain an Essence and an Aspect rune, and one third of the runestones you find will also contain a Potency rune.
  • Half the time, when you find a Potency rune it will be scaled to your combat level, and the other half of the time it will be scaled to your rank in the Potency Improvement passive.

Just for the record, potency runes have officially been put back into the (now universal) enchanting harvest nodes.

I'm really hoping that the Potency run scaling only applies in scaled node zones like the DLC areas, and not everywhere...

Agreed. Scaling nodes should only be found in scaling zones. In zones which have a set level, all material nodes should also have a set level.

Epona222

OK, have tested the changes on the PTS, and it is still NOT good.

On live, if I want to harvest VR1-3 potency runes, I can send a character to early silver zones to harvest them. Now I cannot (I simply cannot get those runes ANYWHERE other than the vendor). On PTS, in Stros M'Kai on my EP character (old VR1 zone, PTS CP40 zone), I am finding either CP160 runes (character level) or level 1 runes (haven't leveled enchanting on this character).

So I would STILL have to buy runes for any other levels I need in between - to craft for friends in one of my play guilds, which is something I have always done for free, and been able to gather the mats for as I am running along doing other things.

This is bad, Zeni, this is not what we want AT ALL. Please for the love of all that is good and reasonable, just revert to the way it is done on live. This is nonsense and is making me lose all faith that any of you know what you are doing when it comes to crafting.

@ZOS_GinaBruno - please feed this back to the devs, thank you.

wayfarerx

Epona222 wrote: »

This is bad, Zeni, this is not what we want AT ALL. Please for the love of all that is good and reasonable, just revert to the way it is done on live. This is nonsense and is making me lose all faith that any of you know what you are doing when it comes to crafting.

I have to agree here, the gathering aspect of Enchanting was simply not broken before DB and there is no reason to fix it. Keep the potency vendor if you like, I don't care, but we should be able to craft any glyph in the game through normal gathering, just like all the other crafts.

If you want more players involved in enchanting then make it level up faster to be more in line with the other crafts, but please leave our little blue, yellow and red rune resource nodes alone.