Official Feedback Thread for Enchanting

SpAEkus

I just ran Stros M'kai and looks like this patch 2.4.1 did not make the promised Potency Reversion.

I also finished checking the Enchant Craft-Decon IP right before and no changes from 2.3 either. I'll spot check 2.4.1 shortly.

NewBlacksmurf

Reorx_Holybeard wrote: »

Can we get a level description on Potency runes? Like for solvents it says "Makes a CP150 potion" I'd love a similar description on potencies that says "Makes a CP150 glyph".

Gosh we really need to not use CP. really ZOS just make it level 50.

Morimizo

Just chiming in with my disapproval of this change to Potency stones;

*confuses new players without updating the tutorial;

*damages the economy, removing a source of income from resource gatherers, and forcing high-level characters to spend MORE to get the potency runes they need....2508 for Repora?!? That's almost 1000 more than market value at the moment, particularly if you buy in bulk;

*diminishes the aesthetic variety of the landscape;

Like many others have stated on this thread, I'm going to need a VERY good explanation of why this change is necessary.

Mix

Few points to make to the posters here:

1. Runestones share spawn with each other, when you harvest one it can reappear as an Essence, Potency, or Aspect (on live).
2. Nightshade, new poison plant, shares spawn with all the other flowers (columbine, mountain flower, lady smock, dragonthorn, thistle...etc)
3. Fastest way to level any of the crafts is decon of items not produced by yourself. You can get a fair amount of glyphs to decon just as you level your character from mob drops or treasure chests, if you are in a hurry and don't have a partner a lot of guild stores will have glyphs for 100g or less just for decon!

I agree Ta should not be so useless. It would be nice to say take 10 Ta and turn them into a Jejota, then 20 Jejota into a Denata, 30 Denata into Rekuta and 40 Rekuta into Kuta (or something like that). Refining Aspect runes!

@NewBlacksmurf IF they don't use CP how do you propose they distinguish between the item levels (vet1 through v16) that they previously put in the game. If all gear only requires level 50 to use then ALL the gear vet1 through vet15 is garbage, they would have to remove these item levels completely (or nerf all items currently vet1+ to level 50 item quality) and remove all those levels of crafting mats as well. THEN in future DLC/patches they could add new higher item level gear that is hard to get (ie. NOT crafted) via PvE or PvP that requires level 50, and thus each DLC/patch would make the previous DLC/patch gear obsolete due to the higher item level. I do not see it being easy to shift the game to that sort of system without enormous backlash from the players. It also doesn't "play nice" with the current crafting system, unless a new crafting mat to craft higher item levels was added along with each DLC/patch. I honestly think the gear requirement of Level 50; 160CP is a good adaptation as we don't see gear going "obsolete" in ESO like it did in WoW for instance, every new Raid tier outclassed the previous (haven't played WoW in over 2 years now so not sure if they changed that or not) and crafted gear was rarely an option, if it was the recipe dropped in the Raids and needed materials obtained from killing Raid bosses.

NewBlacksmurf

Mix wrote: »

Few points to make to the posters here:

1. Runestones share spawn with each other, when you harvest one it can reappear as an Essence, Potency, or Aspect (on live).
2. Nightshade, new poison plant, shares spawn with all the other flowers (columbine, mountain flower, lady smock, dragonthorn, thistle...etc)
3. Fastest way to level any of the crafts is decon of items not produced by yourself. You can get a fair amount of glyphs to decon just as you level your character from mob drops or treasure chests, if you are in a hurry and don't have a partner a lot of guild stores will have glyphs for 100g or less just for decon!

I agree Ta should not be so useless. It would be nice to say take 10 Ta and turn them into a Jejota, then 20 Jejota into a Denata, 30 Denata into Rekuta and 40 Rekuta into Kuta (or something like that). Refining Aspect runes!

@NewBlacksmurf IF they don't use CP how do you propose they distinguish between the item levels (vet1 through v16) that they previously put in the game. If all gear only requires level 50 to use then ALL the gear vet1 through vet15 is garbage, they would have to remove these item levels completely (or nerf all items currently vet1+ to level 50 item quality) and remove all those levels of crafting mats as well. THEN in future DLC/patches they could add new higher item level gear that is hard to get (ie. NOT crafted) via PvE or PvP that requires level 50, and thus each DLC/patch would make the previous DLC/patch gear obsolete due to the higher item level. I do not see it being easy to shift the game to that sort of system without enormous backlash from the players. It also doesn't "play nice" with the current crafting system, unless a new crafting mat to craft higher item levels was added along with each DLC/patch. I honestly think the gear requirement of Level 50; 160CP is a good adaptation as we don't see gear going "obsolete" in ESO like it did in WoW for instance, every new Raid tier outclassed the previous (haven't played WoW in over 2 years now so not sure if they changed that or not) and crafted gear was rarely an option, if it was the recipe dropped in the Raids and needed materials obtained from killing Raid bosses.

The gear is already distinguishable by the progression of:
-stats
-materials used to make them

By using CP it literally makes all gear useless because if you notice, it appears that an unwritten change is that all trials will be accessible pre-50. Notice the patch notes that say the updated Craglorn trial will not give cp gear to someone who has no CP.

A level requirement to wear is on thing, but the requirement to make hasn't changed. The requirements for better items hasn't changed. NPCs determine this or your crafting passive which still exists and relate that to the material. In my sig I explain a simple removal of VR and a simple use of numeric NPC levels
I also suggest a skill line progress.

The problem with using CP is exactly what you describe. Anything VR1-VR14 is now obsolete.
The time it takes to reach CP 160 is not the time it took to hit Vr16.
If u have a few alts at VR1 and maybe 1-30 CPs all you do is rune one daily on each alt for 450-900k in exp and then quest on your main or do whatever else you like.

DLC is scaled anyways so this would actually make things still viable because the armor skill and require of lvl 50 progresses like now but you're not locked out of content.

Capsaica

Ok, I've read nearly every post and skimmed the rest of them. Very good points by many players here, so I will keep my comments as short as I can.

1) I am okay with the revised concept of having an aspect and an essence runestone drop from each node, with the 33% chance for a potency runestone (OR a bonus aspect). This increases the runestone harvesting rate overall, and keeps the potency glyphs harvestable and able to be obtained by deconstruction of glyphs as well, if not, perhaps, as reliably as you could harvest them in the past.

2) I like the idea of having potency runestones at a vendor. If I'm just being lazy, or if I just don't have enough of whatever level potency glyph, then I can spend the gold to get them. I would far prefer that we had an auction house system, but that is the topic for a completely different thread (a.k.a. how to incorporate a global auction house system into the existing guild store economy).

3) Selective node harvesting MUST be addressed. As lordrichter called them, those people who are leaving useless or less valuable items behind in harvesting nodes, thieve's troves and treasure chests are effectively preventing the fresh spawn of nodes and essentially culling all of the more valuable mats out of crafting nodes. This was a major problem with alchemy mats early on, when people left wormwood, blessed thistle and emetic russula nodes intact, and harvested only columbine, namira's rot and the more valuable flowers. Eventually, we only had the reagents available to harvest that no one wanted, because there is no refresh/respawn timer on a node (that I know of). And those people who leave worms or Ta's or lockpicks behind are just hurting themselves as well as everyone else. Please make it an all or nothing harvest.

4) Enchanter surveys should never give Ta's. I probably harvest a minimum of 2 Ta's with every survey, and probably 70% of the time I get 4 Ta's and nothing else. No other crafting survey even has the chance of providing a trash mat like this. I have been doing enchanting writs ever since they existed, and have collected many, many surveys. I might have harvested a Kuta node from my surveys 2 or 3 times. This is just...frustrating.

5) Several people have suggested adding a gold value to Ta, or being able to refine it. I like both ideas, but the refinement one intrigues me. My suggestion:

• Refine 10 Ta's for 1 Jejota, with a chance (10%) for a Denata and a rare chance (3%?) for a Rekuta
• Refine 10 Jejotas for 1 Denata, with a chance (10%) for a Rekuta and a rare chance (2%) for a Kuta
• Refine 10 Denatas for 1 Rekuta, with a rare chance (3%) for a Kuta
• Refine 30 Rekutas for a Kuta.

This way you keep the rarity of Kuta, which is a good thing, and it also provides for a reason to keep Ta's. It adds value to the green and blue runestones as well, besides for leveling purposes and a quick low level set of gear.
The percentages might be a bit low, but even just getting green aspect runestones from Ta's would be more worthwhile than what you have now.

Edited to add:
6) I, too, like the look of the red, blue and yellow runestone nodes in the landscape. It is something shiny and kind of exciting to find. Perhaps they can shift from color to color now instead? Transition from red to yellow, then to blue and back to red? Keep the pleasant visual without the meaning that used to be behind the colors, except that it reflects a multitude of possibilities with each harvest.

MissBizz

I won't quote @Capsaica due to the length, but I agree with everything there.

In all other crafts we still have a need for the lower level improvement materials, it helps keep them worth something. I think that would be a great idea. (Although I would suggest 1% chance for Kuta from ta's, 2% chance from jejota's)

The colourful nodes was also fantastic. I love seeing all the different variations. I understand with the new harvesting change there wouldn't be a point to different coloured nodes, but it sure did look nice.

Fruitmass

I'm inclined to agree. I like the idea of being able to combine lesser quality runes to make higher quality ones. It really is a rather elegant solution to the Ta problem. It has the added benefit of boosting the value of and increasing demand for lesser runes. Not to mention it could do some good towards lowering, or if nothing else at least stabilizing the ever increasing price of Kutas as they'll still be rare but not as rare.

Plus on a personal level it would make my time spent harvesting rune nodes feel much more worthwhile.

newtinmpls

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The adjustments to runestone harvestables were made to streamline the process of gathering the necessary materials to craft glyphs. These changes ensure that every single harvest can translate into a completed glyph, with the crafter having control over which level (and polarity) of glyph is created by way of purchasing the desired potency runestone from the vendor. This change, combined with the increased weapon glyph power and the ability to apply lower level glyphs to higher level pieces of equipment is to encourage additional participation with the enchanting system, which has been found to be significantly lower than other tradeskills.

That said, we understand there’s also some frustration over the price of these. We’re keeping an eye on feedback and metrics, and will adjust as needed.

Part of the frustration is that ES games have long been strong on the "do it yourself" aspect, and having to include a vender really is a .... harsh and unwelcome change (since you have pretty much been able to buy glyphs anyway if that's the way your boat floats).

IF you actually want to streamline glyph production, and increase participation, why not add a mechanic similar to the adding materials in crafting to make the item a "higher level".

-Instead of multiple aspect runes, just have "ta", and have a mechanic such that more of them means a stronger Glyph.

-Instead of having so many billion potency runes, just have two: a "positive" and a "negative"; use one to make a bonus/add, and one to make a reduction/subtract.

-instead of having armor runes, jewelry runes and weapon runes, have only one kind, with X if on weapon, Y if on jewelry, Z if on armor with certain ones that simply cannot be used to enchant weapons, armor, jewelry (as appropriate). Or maybe let them all be applicable to everything. it would be lovely to have "resist poison" armor.

Glyph creation as follows:

-Ta to power; more Ta's = more power (max related to crafting level)

-Potency to add OR subtract. More rune = higher max level of target item (possibly also related to crafter's level)

-Essence - same old same old.

Easy Peasy Lemon Squeezey

ContraTempo

Capsaica wrote: »

3) Selective node harvesting MUST be addressed. As lordrichter called them, those people who are leaving useless or less valuable items behind in harvesting nodes, thieve's troves and treasure chests are effectively preventing the fresh spawn of nodes and essentially culling all of the more valuable mats out of crafting nodes. This was a major problem with alchemy mats early on, when people left wormwood, blessed thistle and emetic russula nodes intact, and harvested only columbine, namira's rot and the more valuable flowers. Eventually, we only had the reagents available to harvest that no one wanted, because there is no refresh/respawn timer on a node (that I know of). And those people who leave worms or Ta's or lockpicks behind are just hurting themselves as well as everyone else. Please make it an all or nothing harvest.

Absolutely! ALL OR NOTHING!

And to be blunt, that would be fixing something that has been broken from the start.

ContraTempo

newtinmpls wrote: »

-Potency to add OR subtract. More rune = higher max level of target item (possibly also related to crafter's level)

Interesting idea. I like the idea of a single + or - rune.

So the crafter's level determines the MAX damage/effect of the glyph, but it also scales down to the lvl of the equipment. That would make it very simple.

So as an example, let's say an Enchanter with a skill of 40 made a white fire glyph (Fire, TA, +):
On a lvl 10 sword it would add 107 flame damage
On a lvl 20 sword it would add 163 flame damage
On a lvl 30 sword it would add 242 flame damage
On a lvl 40 sword it would add 351 flame damage
On a lvl 50 sword it would add 351 flame damage because the crafter only has a skill of 40.
On a lvl CP10 sword it would still only add 351 flame
And so on. As a master enchanter (skill of 50), you can craft glyphs that scale to any level or CP.

That would be REALLY simple.

That would mean we could also eliminate the Potency Improvement skill. I would like to just get that 9 skill points back, but I doubt ZOS would go for that. So to keep costs the same they could load all that cost onto Aspect improvement. So Aspect Improvement costs would be:
green -- 1 skill point
blue -- 2 skill points
purple -- 3 skill points
gold -- 6 skill points
Total: 12 skill points, same as the current cost of Aspect Improvement + Potency Improvement.

newtinmpls

And of course the big bad Pink Elephant in the room that I missed... that my sweetie pointed out last night

Enchanting isn't used much because it's a $%#%^$$ to level up, even more so since the XP for deconning "made" glyphs got nerfed.

So boost that some.

ContraTempo

newtinmpls wrote: »

And of course the big bad Pink Elephant in the room that I missed... that my sweetie pointed out last night

Enchanting isn't used much because it's a $%#%^$$ to level up, even more so since the XP for deconning "made" glyphs got nerfed.

So boost that some.

Easier than alchemy, OMG I just kept sending all the glyphs any of my characters found to my enchanter for decon. Plus i spent a little money on them in guild stores, but only about 10k gold so it was mostly found glyphs.

Lord_Eomer

Putting runes to vendor is OK but should be able to harvest as well or can obtain from deconstruction (1st source for me)

Lord_Eomer

Introduce special runestone buffs but very very harder to obtain..need more encouragement to continue playing as currently I have 3 v16 and maxed all skills with 600 cp. Malestorm is not my priority and PVP less for me. Quests are OK but need something that keep the momentum up to become most powerful character across tamerial..

elven.were_wolf

Can someone please inlighten me to what a 1/3rd chance to drop a potency runestone means?
Does it mean one out of three chance, or does it mean a ridiculously small percentage that makes no difference to the original plan to remove potency runestones from the harvest nodes.because if it's the latter I will be quite unhappy as harvesting for enchanting materials is fine as it is. Want to add it as an option to buy at vendors, fine. But making them a rare accurance like Kuta runestones is not a nice change.

Enodoc

elven.were_wolf wrote: »

Can someone please inlighten me to what a 1/3rd chance to drop a potency runestone means?
Does it mean one out of three chance, or does it mean a ridiculously small percentage that makes no difference to the original plan to remove potency runestones from the harvest nodes.because if it's the latter I will be quite unhappy as harvesting for enchanting materials is fine as it is. Want to add it as an option to buy at vendors, fine. But making them a rare accurance like Kuta runestones is not a nice change.

1/3, 1 in 3, or 33%. It means the chance of getting a potency rune is the same as it is on Live.

elven.were_wolf

Enodoc wrote: »

elven.were_wolf wrote: »

Can someone please inlighten me to what a 1/3rd chance to drop a potency runestone means?
Does it mean one out of three chance, or does it mean a ridiculously small percentage that makes no difference to the original plan to remove potency runestones from the harvest nodes.because if it's the latter I will be quite unhappy as harvesting for enchanting materials is fine as it is. Want to add it as an option to buy at vendors, fine. But making them a rare accurance like Kuta runestones is not a nice change.

1/3, 1 in 3, or 33%. It means the chance of getting a potency rune is the same as it is on Live.

Thank you very much for clarifying. Thank goodness it's not what I interpreted it to be.

ShirleyShine

So I read everything up to page 9.
Obviously missed a whole lot.
I don't know if there is any hope of still harvesting potency in the wild.
Enchanting is really not that hard to level up with a craft buddy, and I've never had too many Ta because I've helped so many people level their chant skill and actually had to go out to get more.
I also "nurse" newbies fresh off the boat and keep them in gear to lvl 50, helping them learn all the crafts and become self dependent. and hate the thought of having to buy any materials.
My system depends on them being able to harvest along the way to help with gear creation while they learn and research.
If anything, I would welcome having provisioning plants available to harvest, not the removal of anything we already had access too.

BenevolentBowd

I went onto the PTS a little earlier today to try writs and noticed my rune hoard was missing. Is this a bug or intended?

MissBizz

BenevolentBowd wrote: »

I went onto the PTS a little earlier today to try writs and noticed my rune hoard was missing. Is this a bug or intended?

@BenevolentBowd Did you go through all your characters and see if any of your characters can see the runes?

ContraTempo

Enodoc wrote: »

elven.were_wolf wrote: »

Can someone please inlighten me to what a 1/3rd chance to drop a potency runestone means?
Does it mean one out of three chance, or does it mean a ridiculously small percentage that makes no difference to the original plan to remove potency runestones from the harvest nodes.because if it's the latter I will be quite unhappy as harvesting for enchanting materials is fine as it is. Want to add it as an option to buy at vendors, fine. But making them a rare accurance like Kuta runestones is not a nice change.

1/3, 1 in 3, or 33%. It means the chance of getting a potency rune is the same as it is on Live.

Still makes no sense. If the problem was that some potency runes are too scarce, this gives us the same number as before while flooding us with more essence and aspect ( mostly Ta) runes. I guess the idea is still to send us to the vendors for potency runes.

NewBlacksmurf

lordrichter wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Nestor wrote: »

Last night I was looking at my inventory on my Enchanter. I have Essences coming out of my ears. No one buys them when I list them for cheap prices on the guild stores. I am not sure that having both an Essence and an Aspect drop in one Node is going to be of benefit to me. Currently, I ignore Essence Nodes in the wild, I just don't need any. I will just end up filling up my crafting bags with Essences I don't need, and no one will buy.

So, now I say, just leave the Harvest part of the Enchanting Craft alone. 3 Types of Nodes, and a random chance for one of the types to spawn, just like they have it now on Live. Then I can choose to Farm what I want. Go ahead and add the Potencies to the game Merchants, as those were always the ones that were harder to get

Honestly, from whet I see and hear, the enchanting farming is pretty good and does not need to be changed. I wish they would just add the potency to the merchants and leave the rest of the system alone.

Yep i think we are mostly on that same frame of mind.
OR
if they do change it...then 1 nodes gives all three...KISS ZOS

Yeah, but the problem this change creates is the abundance of aspect and essence runes that are not being used. The ability to target the runes that are needed is a pretty potent (pun intended) thing. Even with crafting bags, which not everyone will have, this is still an annoyance. Just because people have unlimited space does not mean that they really want to collect all this stuff, and if people don't have unlimited space, they are going to be leaving stuff behind (sorry folks) or just destroying it. The 5-10 minute despawn time will mean a lot of people could to be running across nodes with stuff that someone does not want.

People do not need all of the aspect, essence, and potency runes in equal measure. I am probably going to have thousands of Ta runes by this time next year. When housing comes out, I plan to pave the floors with them.

My comment is to read as:
On live today, no changes are needed at all.

If ZOS wants to add the potency rune to vendors with no other changes, that's fine.
The changes on PTS are not fine at all.

SirAndy

ContraTempo wrote: »

That would be REALLY simple

You assume that everyone would welcome a "really simple" system ...

ContraTempo

SirAndy wrote: »

ContraTempo wrote: »

That would be REALLY simple

You assume that everyone would welcome a "really simple" system ...

LoL, good point. But I do think the players would. ZOS OTOH always wants to include time and gold sucks to keep us playin' and payin'.

Ajaxduo

How comes there is no enchanting mats included in the crafters crates?

Elsonso

Because they want you to evaluate the new rune stone nodes.

DMBCML

staracino_ESO wrote: »

I also want to chime in and say that blue runes need to be found in the wild. If you want to make some crazy change to enchanting:
Make all nodes contain 1 potency, 1 essence, and 1 Ta. Jejota, Denata, Rekuta, and Kuta do not drop, but you combine Ta's to upgrade them. 5 Ta = 1 Jejota, 4 Jejota = 1 Denata, 3 Denata = 1Rekuta, 2 Rekuta = 1 Kuta. That makes 120 Ta per Kuta, which seems like a fair amount to me, maybe even a little too many. But this solves the problems of people leaving behind Ta, and the current issue with blues runes needing to be bought. Although with current stockpiles floating around, this would result in a huge amount of Kutas being produced, so maybe it will be too much.

I like this idea. It wouldn't take long for the supplies to be exhausted and then the harvesting would begin. Most people don't keep the Ta runes they trash, sell, or vendor them. In about a week that would resolve itself.

DMBCML

I absolutely hate the idea of taking the potency rune nodes out of the game. It's unwise. If you wish to put them in the vendor stores at inflated prices, by all means, do that. But don't take the nodes out. In Provisioning you my buy grocery items at the grocer for inflated prices, or you may choose to go harvest the items yourself or buy them at guild traders. If you want to make any runes available at an NPC, this same procedure should be followed. Lastly, what's up with all the rune prices being low and then the last one being over the top expensive?

Really, I don't know why you would want to damage the that portion of the economy. Really, what you are doing is making the game that much less enjoyable for players who enjoy harvesting for fun and gold.

BenevolentBowd

MissBizz wrote: »

BenevolentBowd wrote: »

I went onto the PTS a little earlier today to try writs and noticed my rune hoard was missing. Is this a bug or intended?

@BenevolentBowd Did you go through all your characters and see if any of your characters can see the runes?

I cycled through my characters as suggested and it appeared to help: a lot more runes appeared in the bag. However, I am definitely missing some. I'm showing only 1 kuta and always have some of those on hand to sell if I have a slow week on the trader and need to make quota.