Can anyone from ZOS confirm why crafting node scaling was introduced?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Dagonthir wrote: »

It appears there are basically two groups of players posting here:
Those that benefit from the current system. These are the more hard-core crafters that have dedicated crafters that they they like to use to farm materials and sell either the mats or gear created from the mats for presumably higher than pre-scaling prices. Some even have mutliple master crafters so they can switch characters.

Those that are hurt by the current system. These are the more casual crafters that have maxed out crafting either all on one character or across multiple characters but don't want to have to do it again on their alts. Most of these players just want to enjoy playing the game and get resource nodes while they're out questing, and they don't enjoy farming nodes.

Neither group is going to convince the other group of that they're right, so the decision of what to do is really up to ZOS to determine what type of game they want ESO to be and what crowds they are catering to. In my opinion, they should consider:
What problem was the node scaling trying to solve?

How effectively has the solution solved the problem?

Have there been any unexpected side effects from the solution, and are they good or bad?

We know the answer to the first one, but we'll all have different opinions on the second two. ZOS has the data and analysis to look at the bigger picture rather than just considering input from a handful of people posting in a forum thread. This is just what I think ZOS should consider.

That said, I realize that the proposed solution would enable non-crafters to be able to farm max level crafting nodes as well, although no one in this thread falls into that category. Personally, I think that's valid for people to do because they could do it before the scaling was introduced, but I know there are many people here that have a problem with that. I also want to say that I don't have any problem with scaling crafting nodes to crafting passive in principle, and if ZOS could find a way to enable people to only have to do it once then I'd have no problem with it. The idea of scaling the nodes off of account wide highest passives has been thrown out before, but that idea has been bashed around and even had it suggested that it was somehow the same thing as sharing skill progression across all characters, for all skills (which would be a ridiculous idea). Maybe another new idea would be to allow players to choose which of their characters they want each craft to scale off of. In that sense, it would be as if that character was acting as a sort of player hireling for the crafting character in each profession. I'd have no problem with something like that.

Well let's go ahead and put it out there.
NONE of this would be an issue if ZOS would remove VR levels and align the 1-50 with the current materials. Then, everyone could grab nodes in vanilla ESO or in DLC. Then the node scaling could align with char level and the Passives should then provide increased amounts harvested. Prob solved.

This is happening in June (im assuming June is when DB will come out could be earlier but I doubt it). VR levels are gone. So ya you have a point. Seems like they would spend a lot of time for nothing coding this change.

NeillMcAttack · March 2016

Smileybones wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

nonsense

What if YOU read what I wrote ? I'm not running in circles in different zones at all: I pick up the mats in the zone I'm by following my player and quest progression and I SELL them. With the gold I BUY what I need.

Is that rocket science to you ?

So now, with the current system people should just play the way you play instead of doing what they have always done. Is that the case you are making?

And @jamesharv2005ub17_ESO . Fine, you feel it should be a requirement now to level up crafting on any character that a player wants to play the way they always have!? But why? Because this way the game requires more repetitive "gameplay". And rewards those that have done it. Fine. But that was never the discussion here. We were asking for a reason for this change, not wether or not it is a positive change. So we are here giving our thoughts on this change, both positive and negative as we see them from the playstyles of different players.

In your two posts you haven't even attempted to address any of my points in my post above them. Instead, you have yet again just accused me of wanting to farm end level mats. Do you see the difference between wanting to farm mats the natural way I have always done while questing and wanting to have the ability to access them easily?? I don't think you do. And until such time as you do we can not progress the discussion.

And FYI, like I have ALREADY SAID. If I wanted to just be able to farm end level mats why wouldn't I just log into my master crafting character and do it? Why would this even be an issue for me??

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

You CAN farm mats without leveling up your crafting ALREADY is what you arent grasping. Everything changed with the scaled zones. So its not like the rest of the game and cannot be treated like the rest of the game.

So you can continue to play like we always did. Want the top tier mats go to cyrodill. Want lower level mats nothing has changed. Go to the zones that have those mats and farm them.

NewBlacksmurf · March 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Dagonthir wrote: »

It appears there are basically two groups of players posting here:
Those that benefit from the current system. These are the more hard-core crafters that have dedicated crafters that they they like to use to farm materials and sell either the mats or gear created from the mats for presumably higher than pre-scaling prices. Some even have mutliple master crafters so they can switch characters.

Those that are hurt by the current system. These are the more casual crafters that have maxed out crafting either all on one character or across multiple characters but don't want to have to do it again on their alts. Most of these players just want to enjoy playing the game and get resource nodes while they're out questing, and they don't enjoy farming nodes.

Neither group is going to convince the other group of that they're right, so the decision of what to do is really up to ZOS to determine what type of game they want ESO to be and what crowds they are catering to. In my opinion, they should consider:
What problem was the node scaling trying to solve?

How effectively has the solution solved the problem?

Have there been any unexpected side effects from the solution, and are they good or bad?

We know the answer to the first one, but we'll all have different opinions on the second two. ZOS has the data and analysis to look at the bigger picture rather than just considering input from a handful of people posting in a forum thread. This is just what I think ZOS should consider.

That said, I realize that the proposed solution would enable non-crafters to be able to farm max level crafting nodes as well, although no one in this thread falls into that category. Personally, I think that's valid for people to do because they could do it before the scaling was introduced, but I know there are many people here that have a problem with that. I also want to say that I don't have any problem with scaling crafting nodes to crafting passive in principle, and if ZOS could find a way to enable people to only have to do it once then I'd have no problem with it. The idea of scaling the nodes off of account wide highest passives has been thrown out before, but that idea has been bashed around and even had it suggested that it was somehow the same thing as sharing skill progression across all characters, for all skills (which would be a ridiculous idea). Maybe another new idea would be to allow players to choose which of their characters they want each craft to scale off of. In that sense, it would be as if that character was acting as a sort of player hireling for the crafting character in each profession. I'd have no problem with something like that.

Well let's go ahead and put it out there.
NONE of this would be an issue if ZOS would remove VR levels and align the 1-50 with the current materials. Then, everyone could grab nodes in vanilla ESO or in DLC. Then the node scaling could align with char level and the Passives should then provide increased amounts harvested. Prob solved.

This is happening in June (im assuming June is when DB will come out could be earlier but I doubt it). VR levels are gone. So ya you have a point. Seems like they would spend a lot of time for nothing coding this change.

Sad reality tho....I'm almost 99% certain that removing character VR levels won't adjust the nodes and such across the land. It's been 2 years of them messing with Vr removal, but nothing suggests anything initially other than player characters having VR levels removed and the assumed changes for NPCs (tho never stated by ZOS)

I don't understand how ZOS works but I do understand that removing something had to remove all influences of that system and NOT align any of the old with a new system.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Dagonthir wrote: »

It appears there are basically two groups of players posting here:
Those that benefit from the current system. These are the more hard-core crafters that have dedicated crafters that they they like to use to farm materials and sell either the mats or gear created from the mats for presumably higher than pre-scaling prices. Some even have mutliple master crafters so they can switch characters.

Those that are hurt by the current system. These are the more casual crafters that have maxed out crafting either all on one character or across multiple characters but don't want to have to do it again on their alts. Most of these players just want to enjoy playing the game and get resource nodes while they're out questing, and they don't enjoy farming nodes.

Neither group is going to convince the other group of that they're right, so the decision of what to do is really up to ZOS to determine what type of game they want ESO to be and what crowds they are catering to. In my opinion, they should consider:
What problem was the node scaling trying to solve?

How effectively has the solution solved the problem?

Have there been any unexpected side effects from the solution, and are they good or bad?

We know the answer to the first one, but we'll all have different opinions on the second two. ZOS has the data and analysis to look at the bigger picture rather than just considering input from a handful of people posting in a forum thread. This is just what I think ZOS should consider.

That said, I realize that the proposed solution would enable non-crafters to be able to farm max level crafting nodes as well, although no one in this thread falls into that category. Personally, I think that's valid for people to do because they could do it before the scaling was introduced, but I know there are many people here that have a problem with that. I also want to say that I don't have any problem with scaling crafting nodes to crafting passive in principle, and if ZOS could find a way to enable people to only have to do it once then I'd have no problem with it. The idea of scaling the nodes off of account wide highest passives has been thrown out before, but that idea has been bashed around and even had it suggested that it was somehow the same thing as sharing skill progression across all characters, for all skills (which would be a ridiculous idea). Maybe another new idea would be to allow players to choose which of their characters they want each craft to scale off of. In that sense, it would be as if that character was acting as a sort of player hireling for the crafting character in each profession. I'd have no problem with something like that.

Well let's go ahead and put it out there.
NONE of this would be an issue if ZOS would remove VR levels and align the 1-50 with the current materials. Then, everyone could grab nodes in vanilla ESO or in DLC. Then the node scaling could align with char level and the Passives should then provide increased amounts harvested. Prob solved.

This is happening in June (im assuming June is when DB will come out could be earlier but I doubt it). VR levels are gone. So ya you have a point. Seems like they would spend a lot of time for nothing coding this change.

Sad reality tho....I'm almost 99% certain that removing character VR levels won't adjust the nodes and such across the land. It's been 2 years of them messing with Vr removal, but nothing suggests anything initially other than player characters having VR levels removed and the assumed changes for NPCs (tho never stated by ZOS)

Logic says what you harvest should be based off your crafting level in the scaled zones in my opinion. As far as nodes etc I have no idea how they plan on doing that. I never liked the idea of removing vr ranks in the first place but they are doing it.

scarydrew · March 2016

I would prefer a setting to make it either based on crafting passive/ player level/ or both. Personally I don't want both to always appear because I have all my crafting on one character so when I play a vr1 alt I want to find all vr1 resources, I dont want half of them to be iron ore or w/e.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

scarydrew wrote: »

I would prefer a setting to make it either based on crafting passive/ player level/ or both. Personally I don't want both to always appear because I have all my crafting on one character so when I play a vr1 alt I want to find all vr1 resources, I dont want half of them to be iron ore or w/e.

This only affects nodes in the scaled DLC areas. You can still farm mats in all the other zones like normal.

nathan_bri · March 2016

I believe the node system is fine the way it is.

All eight of my VR1+ characters are max-level crafters. I want them to always see nothing but VR15–16 mats when in the new zones, even though six of them are still below VR15. If I need Calcinium, I can always go to a VR1-ish area to farm for it... at least for now.

Perhaps you are doing this in preparation for the removal of the VR system? In that case, I don't know. Maybe it's good, maybe not. I'd have to play test it to know for sure.

Dagonthir · March 2016

"NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Please just read over the thread. It's actually an excellent thread as it turns out and touches on many different players experiences with the recent change. Thanks.

Excellent point. There are many different playstyles out there, and this thread has pointed out a few. Like you, I'm a little tired of people constantly accusing us of wanting to farm max level nodes without putting in any effort on crafting. We just want to get good level of nodes while questing in the new areas on alts. This was never a problem before the scaling. And we don't want to have to go "farm" nodes in the other zones before heading over to the new zones.

Dagonthir · March 2016

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Then the node scaling could align with char level and the Passives should then provide increased amounts harvested. Prob solved.

This would be totally acceptable to me. In fact, this (giving increased mats relative to crafting passive) was suggested in the early days of the PTS feedback thread, but unfortunately didn't get much discussion.

Lava_Croft · March 2016

Scale to crafting passives of course! Specialization should matter. The fact that you're a VR16 fighter without any crafting experience should matter. Just like it matters that you are a heavy armor tank and therefore not a good DPS.

NBrookus · March 2016

MSchroeder wrote: »

We introduced scaled crafting resource nodes with the intent of making sure anyone could find useful crafting materials when they went to a scaled zone, such as Orsinium or Hew’s Bane.

However, since then, we’ve been monitoring feedback on scaled resources, and we’re actually looking at changing them slightly in the future. Currently, scaled nodes are based solely on your crafting passives; in the future, we’re looking at changing them to be split between your crafting passives, or your character level. We’re hoping that this helps both those characters who are leveling up naturally, and high-level characters who never craft, while still making sure that everyone can find the materials they need for both “the best you can craft” and “the best you can wear”. This seems a good opportunity to open up discussion of this potential change, and see what you all think of it.

...

Let us know what you think of this proposed change! We’re hoping to use the PTS of a major Update to test this, too, so you’ll have a chance to sound off then as well.

First, thanks for chiming in here, @MSchroeder.

First, top tier mats were stupidly hard to get (for everyone) because of the mixed drop rate and artificially inflated quantity of mats required for V16 gear. Mats were insanely expensive to buy and far too difficult to acquire. This annoyed everyone, crafters and non-crafters alike.

With the introduction of TG, we got some relief with the ruby mat node, but now we have to go farm or buy void mats for writs. It's still a better situation. Ruby mats are now widely available and the price is dropping rapidly. Players without crafting skill can still decon loot, buy ruby mats with TV or purchase from guild traders. Before long, they will probably settle at just above the price of void mats, only due to the sheer quantities required.

While many players are confused about node scaling now, the proposed change further muddies this situation and makes it even more difficult for players to understand why they are seeing what materials. I wouldn't even attempt to explain the proposed situation to the new chum in zone chat asking what's going on. Likely, it will cause the prices of ruby mats to settle at a much higher price than they would if they are left as-is, since those crafting alts would now have to farm mats even longer to get what they need. And finally, nodes would still be selectively harvested, reverting us to the problem we have pre-TG, where the hypothetical node spawn rate of ruby mats was effectively much lower, since people were cherry-picking the ruby nodes.

I suggest you delay any changes and not revise these again right away. Let the market for ruby mats stabilize first, which should happen in the next month or so. When you are able to buy a stack of rubedite ingots for 1000-1500g, that price will still be a pittance compared to the purple and gold tempers needed. Which non-crafters will still have to buy, since they don't have the refining passives either.

Personally, I like the nodes just they way they are now, post TG. I even have one toon with alchemy skills set to pick up Clear Water, since that's a high demand item in my guilds. The current method doesn't lock anyone out of getting what they need, but maximizes the opportunity to control what your toons pick up where. It is very, very easy to level up blacksmithing, clothing and woodworking to 50 and there is no shortage of skill points available for the 27 point investment.

@jamesharv2005ub17_ESO - Cyro nodes also scale. My toon without crafting sees jute and iron ore. I wouldn't mind if top tier mats always dropped in Cyro -- it might even be a better solution -- but that's not happening now.

Dhrakyn · March 2016

Please use the crafting level account wide for all characters, not just the character being played at the moment. Honestly you should do the same for crafting motifs and make them account-wide.

This is why most people are infuriated, we leveled up multiple characters to do different types of crafting, and now it makes more sense to have one character who does everything.

This gathering, compared with the mass amounts of motif parts have really ruined the multiple character experience.

IcyDeadPeople · March 2016

MSchroeder wrote: »

We introduced scaled crafting resource nodes with the intent of making sure anyone could find useful crafting materials when they went to a scaled zone, such as Orsinium or Hew’s Bane.

However, since then, we’ve been monitoring feedback on scaled resources, and we’re actually looking at changing them slightly in the future. Currently, scaled nodes are based solely on your crafting passives; in the future, we’re looking at changing them to be split between your crafting passives, or your character level. We’re hoping that this helps both those characters who are leveling up naturally, and high-level characters who never craft, while still making sure that everyone can find the materials they need for both “the best you can craft” and “the best you can wear”. This seems a good opportunity to open up discussion of this potential change, and see what you all think of it.

Please remember that this is only something we’re considering right now; this is not a set-in-stone plan.

To provide an example of how this would work, let me introduce four characters.
Alice has never crafted a day in her life, but has reached VR 16.
Bob is a crafting alt – he’s got Metalworking maxed out, but isn’t even high-enough level to weapon swap.
Charlie is hardcore. Not only is he VR 16, but he’s also got all of his crafting passives purchased.
Deborah is still leveling up, both in combat and in crafting. She’s just unlocked Rank 6 of Metalworking (meaning that she can now craft Calcinium equipment), but hasn’t quite made it to VR 1 yet (so she’s only able to wear gear made from Ebony).

The four adventurers crest a hill, and see two ore nodes. The one on the left is based on crafting passives, while the one on the right is based on character level.
Alice sees an Iron node on the left, and a Rubedite node on the right.
Bob sees a Rubedite node on the left, and an Iron node on the right.
Charlie sees both nodes as Rubedite.
Deborah sees a Calcinium node on the left, and an Ebony node on the right. If she were to get to VR 1 and return (and her friends hadn’t mined those resource nodes), she’d see two Calcinium nodes instead.

Once the nodes have been mined, when they respawn, they’ll randomly be selected to either base themselves off of crafting passives, or off of character level.

Let us know what you think of this proposed change! We’re hoping to use the PTS of a major Update to test this, too, so you’ll have a chance to sound off then as well.

Thanks very much for this detailed info on the proposed change.

In this scenario, I suppose I'm particularly concerned about the fate of Mr. Bob.

Been playing multiple characters since launch and gradually managed to get most of them up into the VR ranks, but it is very slow leveling from V1 to V16. I got excited when I heard that Dark Brotherhood update will magically boost all these characters to max level, so I gave up and stopped grinding them.

I now have five different Veteran Rank characters ranging from V1 to V10 with various max crafting skills and one V16. Since I don't have access to any DLC areas, the only location I can obtain V16 mats is in Cyrodiil. Accordingly, I would much prefer for 100% of the nodes to be V16 mats.

If for some reason I needed some low level mats, I'd simply go farm in the specific low level areas where I know exactly which mat can be obtained in which zone. It will be very inconvenient if in Cyrodiil suddenly we only get V16 mats half the time, especially since it now requires 200 or so Rubedite Ingots / Rubedo Leather etc., to make one V16 item.

Incidentally currently on the live server, this loot system is still not working properly in Cyrodiil. We get all the V16 Potency Runes, Ancestor Silk, Rubedite Ore, etc.; however, Rubedo Leather Scraps are not dropping at all from any of the Cyrodiil mobs (only Shadowhide Scraps). As a result, I have no source for Rubedo Leather other than the few scraps I get in hireling mails.

I would suggest whenever a player has gone through the effort to max out a particular crafting skill, the purpose of doing this is primarily to craft max level items. So, max level mats are what's needed for this character, not low level mats.

If this change were to occur after Dark Brotherhood update, it would be not so bad, since all my VR characters would be max level. If it happens sooner, however, many of us will have trouble finding enough mats to craft V16 items if we don't have the patience to grind all our alts up to V16 (knowing that veteran ranks will go away).

Leiloni · March 2016

MSchroeder wrote: »

We introduced scaled crafting resource nodes with the intent of making sure anyone could find useful crafting materials when they went to a scaled zone, such as Orsinium or Hew’s Bane.

However, since then, we’ve been monitoring feedback on scaled resources, and we’re actually looking at changing them slightly in the future. Currently, scaled nodes are based solely on your crafting passives; in the future, we’re looking at changing them to be split between your crafting passives, or your character level. We’re hoping that this helps both those characters who are leveling up naturally, and high-level characters who never craft, while still making sure that everyone can find the materials they need for both “the best you can craft” and “the best you can wear”. This seems a good opportunity to open up discussion of this potential change, and see what you all think of it.

Please remember that this is only something we’re considering right now; this is not a set-in-stone plan.

To provide an example of how this would work, let me introduce four characters.
Alice has never crafted a day in her life, but has reached VR 16.
Bob is a crafting alt – he’s got Metalworking maxed out, but isn’t even high-enough level to weapon swap.
Charlie is hardcore. Not only is he VR 16, but he’s also got all of his crafting passives purchased.
Deborah is still leveling up, both in combat and in crafting. She’s just unlocked Rank 6 of Metalworking (meaning that she can now craft Calcinium equipment), but hasn’t quite made it to VR 1 yet (so she’s only able to wear gear made from Ebony).

The four adventurers crest a hill, and see two ore nodes. The one on the left is based on crafting passives, while the one on the right is based on character level.
Alice sees an Iron node on the left, and a Rubedite node on the right.
Bob sees a Rubedite node on the left, and an Iron node on the right.
Charlie sees both nodes as Rubedite.
Deborah sees a Calcinium node on the left, and an Ebony node on the right. If she were to get to VR 1 and return (and her friends hadn’t mined those resource nodes), she’d see two Calcinium nodes instead.

Once the nodes have been mined, when they respawn, they’ll randomly be selected to either base themselves off of crafting passives, or off of character level.

Let us know what you think of this proposed change! We’re hoping to use the PTS of a major Update to test this, too, so you’ll have a chance to sound off then as well.

I don't like the element of RNG. I would rather all nodes function in the same way so I know what to expect and can plan accordingly. Further, the change that came with Thieve's Guild where all V16 nodes now actually give V16 mats, has been amazing.

I think you should continue to make it so scaled nodes only give mats based on your crafting passives (i.e. keep it as it in game and don't change anything). The reason for this is two-fold:

1. If I need to make V16 gear on my maxed out Clothier whose only V8, I can go to a scaled zone and get everything I need. It's wonderful.
2. When I want to make a new set of gear to level with, I can gather in the Cadwell's Gold zones I'm currently leveling in.

It's much easier to find a leveling zone and gather your mats there if that's what you're looking for. You don't have to worry about being attacked in PvP, and you don't have to worry about being attacked by mobs that are higher level than you. The entire zone is already where you should be. So if I need to craft "gear I can wear", that's easy to do already.

But V16 mats previously were hard to find due to the old RNG nature of the nodes, which was not fun. And outside of Wrothgar, you had to go to Cyrodiil to get them, which not everybody wanted to do. Now that all max level nodes give V16 mats all the time, all players - even low level crafting alts - have an easy place to go for the higher level mats they seek. If I want to craft "Best you can craft" gear on a low level crafting alt, all I need to do is port over to Wrothgar or Hew's Bane and I can gather to my heart's content there.

There's no need to change the system, because your current system already provides the options you're seeking to provide. In sum, your current system is perfect and please don't change it.

Edit: Further, us crafter's have worked hard to max out. We should be rewarded for specializing like that. Anyone who wants to gather max level crafting mats can easily level up via deconstruction to get those passives. Or, now that V16 mats are so easy to get, they can just purchase them from someone else. I expect prices to drop for V16 mats and let's give the game time to do that. The current system benefits everybody and is easy to understand.

Leiloni · March 2016

NBrookus wrote: »

MSchroeder wrote: »

We introduced scaled crafting resource nodes with the intent of making sure anyone could find useful crafting materials when they went to a scaled zone, such as Orsinium or Hew’s Bane.

However, since then, we’ve been monitoring feedback on scaled resources, and we’re actually looking at changing them slightly in the future. Currently, scaled nodes are based solely on your crafting passives; in the future, we’re looking at changing them to be split between your crafting passives, or your character level. We’re hoping that this helps both those characters who are leveling up naturally, and high-level characters who never craft, while still making sure that everyone can find the materials they need for both “the best you can craft” and “the best you can wear”. This seems a good opportunity to open up discussion of this potential change, and see what you all think of it.

...

Let us know what you think of this proposed change! We’re hoping to use the PTS of a major Update to test this, too, so you’ll have a chance to sound off then as well.

First, thanks for chiming in here, @MSchroeder.

First, top tier mats were stupidly hard to get (for everyone) because of the mixed drop rate and artificially inflated quantity of mats required for V16 gear. Mats were insanely expensive to buy and far too difficult to acquire. This annoyed everyone, crafters and non-crafters alike.

With the introduction of TG, we got some relief with the ruby mat node, but now we have to go farm or buy void mats for writs.

I think I'm confused in regards to your point of availability of Voidstone vs Rubedite for writs. They're both easy to get. If you want to gather Voidstone, go to the appropriate VR8+ leveling zones. They are all over those zones. If you want Rubedite, a max crafter can go to Wrothgar or Hew's Bane and get them there. You now have a guaranteed place to get every piece of ore you need. I expect the price for Rubedite to go down now that it's so easy to get. Anyone that doesn't want to put a few points into crafting passives to gather those themselves can just buy them cheaply off of a guild store. Time spent specializing in something should matter and when the item is so easy to get, it's not a burden on the player's wallet anyway. It just becomes a time vs money scenario, both of which are easy options.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

Top tier mats were only hard to get because everyone was trying to get them. Its like that when new stuff comes out. Considering the cost of making vr16 gear mats were in very high demand. Since the demand has lessened with the introduction of TG and those new drop sets the price has gone down now. If you let just anyone who is vr15 or 16 farm mats there will be no market period for top tier mats.

How the guys at eso didnt think about these things I dont know. Why mess with this stuff when there are so many glaring issues with the game?

alvehyannab14_ESO · March 2016

murtrem_ESO wrote: »

Did everyone forget how ungodly easy it is to level crafts (maybe not enchanting) to 50? My first character had lvl 50 smith, woodworking, and tailoring loooong before he was level 50. At v16 having never crafted anything.. u can start to decon the drops u get from (insert activity here) and level the craft up absurdely fast. And then its what? 10 skill points? Tada! Now u can harvest the nodes you want. Its not like you need to spend another year researching traits.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I think in response to the moderator here if you want to farm high level nodes then you should spend the 10 points to do so. Otherwise you are catering to farmers who cant even be bothered to put points into a crafting skill. Its obvious the argument about wanting mats you can use on other characters is not factual. What you are going to facilitate is people being able to dominate the nodes no matter what level crafting and sell them on a guild store someplace.

Please do not make this change. Let crafters be crafters. If the player doesnt want to work crafting then they can buy from those of us who do.

I've played since launch, and JUST started crafting last week.

Both of these are DEAD on correct. I'm doing BS / Cloth / Wood and am 43, 36, 25 IN LESS THAN A WEEK. I went from 0-26 in BS in one play session on a work night (2-3 hours). Seriously, just level it up if you want to get in on that part of the game.

The ONLY reason to change from the current system, is so that people who haven't worked on crafting at all can farm nodes for money. That's a major economy change. Granted, I'd love to see the prices..I think its a net bad change.

Alice, is fine. She has no need for high level mats and if she takes it up - she will be using desyn to level anyways. She can farm mats in lower level zone if needed, or in level-adjusting zones as needed

Bob, can go to level adjusted zones for the mats he needs. Two to chose from. Leveling up to the point of being able to go to those places isn't too much of a hardship.

Charlie wont notice or care.

Deborah can still make stuff to use as she levels, when she needs mats, just needs to go to the right place.

I think the system as is, is fine. Crafting means investing time, which includes educating yourself.

Also, the proposed change means if I want to make a level 20 Hunting's for a friend who just started playing, going out and getting the mats would be hard if all nodes in all zone change to this...as I'd be unable for mine them because I'm too high.

It really seems the system as is, is the best for the most amount of people. You have to be careful when trying to make small groups happy, that you dont make other groups more unhappy than the first group.

IcyDeadPeople · March 2016

alvehyannab14_ESO wrote: »

Bob, can go to level adjusted zones for the mats he needs. Two to chose from. Leveling up to the point of being able to go to those places isn't too much of a hardship.

The problem is Bob will only get the V16 mats 50% of the time instead of getting them 100% of the time, which is how it works currently. So even though veteran ranks are finally going away very soon, and we need to gather hundreds of rubedite ingots/hide/ancestor silk etc for each individual V16 item, we would still have to go back and grind up all our crafting alts to V16.

This would discourage some of us from continuing to play until the Dark Brotherhood update boosts all these alts to max level anyways.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

alvehyannab14_ESO wrote: »

Bob, can go to level adjusted zones for the mats he needs. Two to chose from. Leveling up to the point of being able to go to those places isn't too much of a hardship.

The problem is Bob will only get the V16 mats 50% of the time instead of getting them 100% of the time, which is how it works currently. So even though veteran ranks are finally going away very soon, and we need to gather 200+ mats for each singular V16 item, we would still have to go back and grind up all our crafting alts to V16.

This would discourage some of us from continuing to play until the Dark Brotherhood update boosts all these alts to max level anyways.

You dont need 200+ mats for any of the set pieces. They are either 130 or 150. There is no need to "grind" crafting alts to v16. You are auto leveled in the new zones to vr15. All you need to do is up your crafting passive to 10. Just FYI this isnt something they plan on changing in any zones but the ones that scale. The other zones do not have scaling nodes.

IcyDeadPeople · March 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

alvehyannab14_ESO wrote: »

Bob, can go to level adjusted zones for the mats he needs. Two to chose from. Leveling up to the point of being able to go to those places isn't too much of a hardship.

The problem is Bob will only get the V16 mats 50% of the time instead of getting them 100% of the time, which is how it works currently. So even though veteran ranks are finally going away very soon, and we need to gather hundreds of rubedite ingots/hide/ancestor silk etc for each individual V16 item, we would still have to go back and grind up all our crafting alts to V16.

This would discourage some of us from continuing to play until the Dark Brotherhood update boosts all these alts to max level anyways.

You dont need 200+ mats for any of the set pieces. They are either 130 or 150. There is no need to "grind" crafting alts to v16. You are auto leveled in the new zones to vr15. All you need to do is up your crafting passive to 10. Just FYI this isnt something they plan on changing in any zones but the ones that scale. The other zones do not have scaling nodes.

I believe you have misunderstood the comment from MSchroder above:

To provide an example of how this would work, let me introduce four characters.
Alice has never crafted a day in her life, but has reached VR 16.
Bob is a crafting alt – he’s got Metalworking maxed out, but isn’t even high-enough level to weapon swap.
Charlie is hardcore. Not only is he VR 16, but he’s also got all of his crafting passives purchased.
Deborah is still leveling up, both in combat and in crafting. She’s just unlocked Rank 6 of Metalworking (meaning that she can now craft Calcinium equipment), but hasn’t quite made it to VR 1 yet (so she’s only able to wear gear made from Ebony).

The four adventurers crest a hill, and see two ore nodes. The one on the left is based on crafting passives, while the one on the right is based on character level.
Alice sees an Iron node on the left, and a Rubedite node on the right.
Bob sees a Rubedite node on the left, and an Iron node on the right.
Charlie sees both nodes as Rubedite.
Deborah sees a Calcinium node on the left, and an Ebony node on the right. If she were to get to VR 1 and return (and her friends hadn’t mined those resource nodes), she’d see two Calcinium nodes instead.

Bob is the example of a character with max crafting skill but lower character level. Accordingly, if you have fully maxed level 50 Blacksmithing with Metal Working Rank 10, but you are only V11, in these zones you will only find Rubedite Ingots 50% of the time and Voidstone Ingots 50% of the time.

Leiloni · March 2016

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

alvehyannab14_ESO wrote: »

Bob, can go to level adjusted zones for the mats he needs. Two to chose from. Leveling up to the point of being able to go to those places isn't too much of a hardship.

This would discourage some of us from continuing to play until the Dark Brotherhood update boosts all these alts to max level anyways.

Except if ZOS goes through with this change to how scaled crafting nodes work, then once VR ranks are removed, we'll have to level all of our crafting alts to level 50 in order for them to be max level (and thus gather max level alts all of the time from these nodes). From how I understand it, CP will be the new VR levels in terms of gear acquisition.

So sure you'll be "max level" at 50, but you won't be able to wear V16 gear until you get 160 CP. But before 50, you'll be wearing gear for whatever level you are. So while you can spec into the CP as soon as you create a new level 1, it's still a level 1 character until it hits 50 when it's max. It doesn't get a magical boost to 50 just because you have a ton of CP.

I'm assuming this new gathering suggestion would work the same way. Pre-50, my crafting alts would gather 50% of the time for their low pre-50 level. They would need to level to 50 in order to get the max level crafting nodes 100% of the time.

The removal of VR doesn't mean my level 22 Blacksmithing alt will suddenly be able to wear and gather V16 mats. It means once she's level 50, she'll be able to gather those V16 mats since my main has so many CP.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

Leiloni wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

alvehyannab14_ESO wrote: »

Bob, can go to level adjusted zones for the mats he needs. Two to chose from. Leveling up to the point of being able to go to those places isn't too much of a hardship.

The problem is Bob will only get the V16 mats 50% of the time instead of getting them 100% of the time, which is how it works currently. So even though veteran ranks are finally going away very soon, and we need to gather hundreds of rubedite ingots/hide/ancestor silk etc for each individual V16 item, we would still have to go back and grind up all our crafting alts to V16.

This would discourage some of us from continuing to play until the Dark Brotherhood update boosts all these alts to max level anyways.

Except once VR ranks are removed, we'll have to level all of our crafting alts to level 50 in order for them to be max. From how I understand it, CP will be the new VR levels in terms of gear acquisition. So sure you'll be "max level" at 50, but you won't be able to wear V16 gear until you get 160 CP. But before 50, you'll be wearing gear for whatever level you are. The removal of VR doesn't mean my level 22 Blacksmithing alt will suddenly be able to wear and gather V16 mats. It means once she's level 50, she'll be able to gather those V16 mats since my main has so many CP.

You wont need to level your alts. The new zones scale your level. Where do you guys get this info? You need to level up your crafting level not your actual level. In the new zones if your say blacksmith passive is at 10 you will see only top tier nodes in the scaled areas. The non scaled areas there are no V16 non scaled areas. So thats pointless to even discuss.

IcyDeadPeople · March 2016

Leiloni wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

alvehyannab14_ESO wrote: »

Bob, can go to level adjusted zones for the mats he needs. Two to chose from. Leveling up to the point of being able to go to those places isn't too much of a hardship.

This would discourage some of us from continuing to play until the Dark Brotherhood update boosts all these alts to max level anyways.

Except once VR ranks are removed, we'll have to level all of our crafting alts to level 50 in order for them to be max. From how I understand it, CP will be the new VR levels in terms of gear acquisition.

So sure you'll be "max level" at 50, but you won't be able to wear V16 gear until you get 160 CP. But before 50, you'll be wearing gear for whatever level you are. So while you can spec into the CP as soon as you create a new level 1, it's still a level 1 character until it hits 50 when it's max.

The removal of VR doesn't mean my level 22 Blacksmithing alt will suddenly be able to wear and gather V16 mats. It means once she's level 50, she'll be able to gather those V16 mats since my main has so many CP.

It's very easy and fast to level from 1-50. However, it's a slow and tedious grind from V1 to V16.

I have several veteran rank characters with various max crafting skills, but only one V16. When Dark Brotherhood drops, all of these will be max level, and if I want to make a brand new alt, I'll be able to get it to max level within about 12-15 hours.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Leiloni wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

alvehyannab14_ESO wrote: »

Bob, can go to level adjusted zones for the mats he needs. Two to chose from. Leveling up to the point of being able to go to those places isn't too much of a hardship.

This would discourage some of us from continuing to play until the Dark Brotherhood update boosts all these alts to max level anyways.

Except once VR ranks are removed, we'll have to level all of our crafting alts to level 50 in order for them to be max. From how I understand it, CP will be the new VR levels in terms of gear acquisition.

So sure you'll be "max level" at 50, but you won't be able to wear V16 gear until you get 160 CP. But before 50, you'll be wearing gear for whatever level you are. So while you can spec into the CP as soon as you create a new level 1, it's still a level 1 character until it hits 50 when it's max.

The removal of VR doesn't mean my level 22 Blacksmithing alt will suddenly be able to wear and gather V16 mats. It means once she's level 50, she'll be able to gather those V16 mats since my main has so many CP.

It's very easy and fast to level from 1-50. However, it's a slow and tedious grind from V1 to V16.

I have several veteran rank characters with various max crafting skills, but only one V16. When Dark Brotherhood drops, all of these will be max level, and if I want to make a brand new alt, I'll be able to get it to max level within about 12-15 hours.

DB is going to scale to your level just like TG did. You can take a level 3 there just out of the tutorial if you want to.

IcyDeadPeople · March 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Leiloni wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

alvehyannab14_ESO wrote: »

Bob, can go to level adjusted zones for the mats he needs. Two to chose from. Leveling up to the point of being able to go to those places isn't too much of a hardship.

The problem is Bob will only get the V16 mats 50% of the time instead of getting them 100% of the time, which is how it works currently. So even though veteran ranks are finally going away very soon, and we need to gather hundreds of rubedite ingots/hide/ancestor silk etc for each individual V16 item, we would still have to go back and grind up all our crafting alts to V16.

This would discourage some of us from continuing to play until the Dark Brotherhood update boosts all these alts to max level anyways.

Except once VR ranks are removed, we'll have to level all of our crafting alts to level 50 in order for them to be max. From how I understand it, CP will be the new VR levels in terms of gear acquisition.

So sure you'll be "max level" at 50, but you won't be able to wear V16 gear until you get 160 CP. But before 50, you'll be wearing gear for whatever level you are. So while you can spec into the CP as soon as you create a new level 1, it's still a level 1 character until it hits 50 when it's max.

The removal of VR doesn't mean my level 22 Blacksmithing alt will suddenly be able to wear and gather V16 mats. It means once she's level 50, she'll be able to gather those V16 mats since my main has so many CP.

It's very easy and fast to level from 1-50. However, it's a slow and tedious grind from V1 to V16.

I have several veteran rank characters with various max crafting skills, but only one V16. When Dark Brotherhood drops, all of these will be max level, and if I want to make a brand new alt, I'll be able to get it to max level within about 12-15 hours.

DB is going to scale to your level just like TG did. You can take a level 3 there just out of the tutorial if you want to.

Battle Spirit and level scaling is different from the system for scaling nodes. Currently the nodes scale based on your crafting skill passives, not your character level. For example if you have Metalworking Rank 10 passive for Blacksmithing, in Cyrodiil you will find Rubedite ore 100% of the time.

The proposed new upcoming change mentioned above suggests that if your Metalworking is maxed out, but your character level is below V16, then you will only get Rubedite half the time and your character level appropriate ore the other half of the time.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

Leiloni wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

alvehyannab14_ESO wrote: »

Bob, can go to level adjusted zones for the mats he needs. Two to chose from. Leveling up to the point of being able to go to those places isn't too much of a hardship.

This would discourage some of us from continuing to play until the Dark Brotherhood update boosts all these alts to max level anyways.

Except once VR ranks are removed, we'll have to level all of our crafting alts to level 50 in order for them to be max. From how I understand it, CP will be the new VR levels in terms of gear acquisition.

So sure you'll be "max level" at 50, but you won't be able to wear V16 gear until you get 160 CP. But before 50, you'll be wearing gear for whatever level you are. So while you can spec into the CP as soon as you create a new level 1, it's still a level 1 character until it hits 50 when it's max.

The removal of VR doesn't mean my level 22 Blacksmithing alt will suddenly be able to wear and gather V16 mats. It means once she's level 50, she'll be able to gather those V16 mats since my main has so many CP.

It's very easy and fast to level from 1-50. However, it's a slow and tedious grind from V1 to V16.

I have several veteran rank characters with various max crafting skills, but only one V16. When Dark Brotherhood drops, all of these will be max level, and if I want to make a brand new alt, I'll be able to get it to max level within about 12-15 hours.

DB is going to scale to your level just like TG did. You can take a level 3 there just out of the tutorial if you want to.

Battle Spirit and level scaling is different from the system for scaling nodes. Currently the nodes scale based on your crafting skill passives. For example if you have Metalworking Rank 10 passive for Blacksmithing, in Cyrodiil you will find Rubedite ore 100% of the time.

The proposed new upcoming change mentioned above suggests that if your Metalworking is maxed out, but your character level is below V16, then you will only get Rubedite half the time and your character level appropriate ore the other half of the time.

Right which is why everyone doesnt want the change to happen. Your crafting abilities should be based on your crafting level. Not your actual level.

Leiloni · March 2016

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Leiloni wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

alvehyannab14_ESO wrote: »

Bob, can go to level adjusted zones for the mats he needs. Two to chose from. Leveling up to the point of being able to go to those places isn't too much of a hardship.

The problem is Bob will only get the V16 mats 50% of the time instead of getting them 100% of the time, which is how it works currently. So even though veteran ranks are finally going away very soon, and we need to gather hundreds of rubedite ingots/hide/ancestor silk etc for each individual V16 item, we would still have to go back and grind up all our crafting alts to V16.

This would discourage some of us from continuing to play until the Dark Brotherhood update boosts all these alts to max level anyways.

Except once VR ranks are removed, we'll have to level all of our crafting alts to level 50 in order for them to be max. From how I understand it, CP will be the new VR levels in terms of gear acquisition. So sure you'll be "max level" at 50, but you won't be able to wear V16 gear until you get 160 CP. But before 50, you'll be wearing gear for whatever level you are. The removal of VR doesn't mean my level 22 Blacksmithing alt will suddenly be able to wear and gather V16 mats. It means once she's level 50, she'll be able to gather those V16 mats since my main has so many CP.

You wont need to level your alts. The new zones scale your level. Where do you guys get this info? You need to level up your crafting level not your actual level. In the new zones if your say blacksmith passive is at 10 you will see only top tier nodes in the scaled areas. The non scaled areas there are no V16 non scaled areas. So thats pointless to even discuss.

You need to catch up on the discussion. ZOS posted a suggestion that they may change the way this works in the future for scaled nodes. Their idea is that it would be 50/50. Half the time you'd see nodes scaled to crafting level and half the time you'd see it scaled to player level. I think it's a terrible idea and I posted a few posts up why. But the post you quoted was saying, IF they went through with this change to 50/50, that's how it would work in the future once VR ranks are removed.

Here's the dev post:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2815064#Comment_2815064

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

Leiloni wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Leiloni wrote: »

IcyDeadPeople wrote: »

alvehyannab14_ESO wrote: »

Bob, can go to level adjusted zones for the mats he needs. Two to chose from. Leveling up to the point of being able to go to those places isn't too much of a hardship.

The problem is Bob will only get the V16 mats 50% of the time instead of getting them 100% of the time, which is how it works currently. So even though veteran ranks are finally going away very soon, and we need to gather hundreds of rubedite ingots/hide/ancestor silk etc for each individual V16 item, we would still have to go back and grind up all our crafting alts to V16.

This would discourage some of us from continuing to play until the Dark Brotherhood update boosts all these alts to max level anyways.

Except once VR ranks are removed, we'll have to level all of our crafting alts to level 50 in order for them to be max. From how I understand it, CP will be the new VR levels in terms of gear acquisition. So sure you'll be "max level" at 50, but you won't be able to wear V16 gear until you get 160 CP. But before 50, you'll be wearing gear for whatever level you are. The removal of VR doesn't mean my level 22 Blacksmithing alt will suddenly be able to wear and gather V16 mats. It means once she's level 50, she'll be able to gather those V16 mats since my main has so many CP.

You wont need to level your alts. The new zones scale your level. Where do you guys get this info? You need to level up your crafting level not your actual level. In the new zones if your say blacksmith passive is at 10 you will see only top tier nodes in the scaled areas. The non scaled areas there are no V16 non scaled areas. So thats pointless to even discuss.

You need to catch up on the discussion. ZOS posted a suggestion that they may change the way this works in the future for scaled nodes. Their idea is that it would be 50/50. Half the time you'd see nodes scaled to crafting level and half the time you'd see it scaled to player level. I think it's a terrible idea and I posted a few posts up why. But the post you quoted was saying, IF they went through with this change to 50/50, that's how it would work in the future once VR ranks are removed.

Here's the dev post:

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2815064#Comment_2815064

Ive been involved since the very first post. That quote is from THIS thread. Their idea is what we are debating and its flawed. So we are asking them not to do it. He very clearly says these changes would only apply to scaled areas and NOT anywhere else. So I dont know what exactly you want me to catch up on here.

Spearshard · March 2016

So here's the thing. We have james, who if I am correct, you use crafting as a means to do daily writs on all your toons, and as a way to farm high level mats and sell mats and armor. You, and many others I would wager who support the system as it is now probably had maxed your crafters on your toon's for specifically that purpose. When the scaling change went live, happy day, high level mats, and as many people leveled one crafter and only see worthless jute and iron, pass it by leaving high amounts of valuable goods. As each of those in favor of the current system have stated being able to collect mats of a certain level is a "reward" for leveling said craft. However, if you read your tool tip, nowhere does it say in any of the crafts, magically transmutes materials in world. Your reward for training in crafting has always been improving your ability to shape and work a material into better arms and armor. This has nothing to do with ability to gather. Shaping metal has nothing to do with gathering material. The idea, as zos has stated was to solve the issue of what mats should appear, and was one they hoped would solve the problem.
Previously the system they designed served a multitude of purposes and styles. They did not implement this mechanic previously for the very reason that many players are upset with it currently. They wished players to have access to goods and armor in a multitude of ways. The reward for leveling say, blacksmithing was not a magical ability to find new mats, it was, go figure, better skill in forging weapons and armor. Could everyone level it, sure we all know it takes about a week, (and for the record I have leveled mine specifically to gain access to laurels) but it's a change away from a core mechanic of the way the game has functioned, and functioned that way for good reason, which takes gold (you decon lots of stuff that could be sold -it does add up,) and is basically a change that just pads "gameplay." I'm not saying anything against you guys farming mats to use for writs or simply just selling them in your guild, however, just because you can use rubidite to make a sword doesn't make you more entitled to find it than someone else who will find it and either sell it to fund something else, or save it and pay a crafter to make him something with it.