Can anyone from ZOS confirm why crafting node scaling was introduced?

ZOS_MSchroeder · March 2016

We introduced scaled crafting resource nodes with the intent of making sure anyone could find useful crafting materials when they went to a scaled zone, such as Orsinium or Hew’s Bane.

However, since then, we’ve been monitoring feedback on scaled resources, and we’re actually looking at changing them slightly in the future. Currently, scaled nodes are based solely on your crafting passives; in the future, we’re looking at changing them to be split between your crafting passives, or your character level. We’re hoping that this helps both those characters who are leveling up naturally, and high-level characters who never craft, while still making sure that everyone can find the materials they need for both “the best you can craft” and “the best you can wear”. This seems a good opportunity to open up discussion of this potential change, and see what you all think of it.

Please remember that this is only something we’re considering right now; this is not a set-in-stone plan.

To provide an example of how this would work, let me introduce four characters.
Alice has never crafted a day in her life, but has reached VR 16.
Bob is a crafting alt – he’s got Metalworking maxed out, but isn’t even high-enough level to weapon swap.
Charlie is hardcore. Not only is he VR 16, but he’s also got all of his crafting passives purchased.
Deborah is still leveling up, both in combat and in crafting. She’s just unlocked Rank 6 of Metalworking (meaning that she can now craft Calcinium equipment), but hasn’t quite made it to VR 1 yet (so she’s only able to wear gear made from Ebony).

The four adventurers crest a hill, and see two ore nodes. The one on the left is based on crafting passives, while the one on the right is based on character level.
Alice sees an Iron node on the left, and a Rubedite node on the right.
Bob sees a Rubedite node on the left, and an Iron node on the right.
Charlie sees both nodes as Rubedite.
Deborah sees a Calcinium node on the left, and an Ebony node on the right. If she were to get to VR 1 and return (and her friends hadn’t mined those resource nodes), she’d see two Calcinium nodes instead.

Once the nodes have been mined, when they respawn, they’ll randomly be selected to either base themselves off of crafting passives, or off of character level.

Let us know what you think of this proposed change! We’re hoping to use the PTS of a major Update to test this, too, so you’ll have a chance to sound off then as well.

Nestor · March 2016

Callous2208 wrote: »

And on a side note, with this system you're not competing with Joe non crafter who spends all day farming high tier mats to sell back to you the crafter at astronomical prices, beating you to every node. This system is solid.

Actually, nothing about this system stops that from happening.

I am not sure why you are against scaling the nodes to either character level or crafting level which ever is higher. All it does is allow each player to play the game the way they want to. Those of you who like to log to a Farming alt can do so, those us who like to farm as we go from place to place can do so. This in no way harms you.

Unless you are a mat farmer who just wants to keep people overpaying for mats to make gear to be competitive or do the content.

[minor edit for context]

Callous2208 · March 2016

Well there we go. Now we can all hug it out be happy. Best of both worlds.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO · March 2016

I think in response to the moderator here if you want to farm high level nodes then you should spend the 10 points to do so. Otherwise you are catering to farmers who cant even be bothered to put points into a crafting skill. Its obvious the argument about wanting mats you can use on other characters is not factual. What you are going to facilitate is people being able to dominate the nodes no matter what level crafting and sell them on a guild store someplace.

Please do not make this change. Let crafters be crafters. If the player doesnt want to work crafting then they can buy from those of us who do.

murtrem_ESO · March 2016

Did everyone forget how ungodly easy it is to level crafts (maybe not enchanting) to 50? My first character had lvl 50 smith, woodworking, and tailoring loooong before he was level 50. At v16 having never crafted anything.. u can start to decon the drops u get from (insert activity here) and level the craft up absurdely fast. And then its what? 10 skill points? Tada! Now u can harvest the nodes you want. Its not like you need to spend another year researching traits.

THEDKEXPERIENCE · March 2016

I'm Charlie! Charlie approves!!

Seraseth · March 2016

@MSchroeder

Just for clarification, the nodes on the left in your example is how it is now, but how your planning to change it is it

a) exactly like the example, both types will spawn(left and right for each person), some based on level and some based on crafting passive

b) which ever one is higher of the level or the crafting passive (right, left, either, left in your example) will be the type that always spawns

NewBlacksmurf · March 2016

MSchroeder wrote: »

We introduced scaled crafting resource nodes with the intent of making sure anyone could find useful crafting materials when they went to a scaled zone, such as Orsinium or Hew’s Bane.

However, since then, we’ve been monitoring feedback on scaled resources, and we’re actually looking at changing them slightly in the future. Currently, scaled nodes are based solely on your crafting passives; in the future, we’re looking at changing them to be split between your crafting passives, or your character level. We’re hoping that this helps both those characters who are leveling up naturally, and high-level characters who never craft, while still making sure that everyone can find the materials they need for both “the best you can craft” and “the best you can wear”. This seems a good opportunity to open up discussion of this potential change, and see what you all think of it.

Please remember that this is only something we’re considering right now; this is not a set-in-stone plan.

To provide an example of how this would work, let me introduce four characters.
Alice has never crafted a day in her life, but has reached VR 16.
Bob is a crafting alt – he’s got Metalworking maxed out, but isn’t even high-enough level to weapon swap.
Charlie is hardcore. Not only is he VR 16, but he’s also got all of his crafting passives purchased.
Deborah is still leveling up, both in combat and in crafting. She’s just unlocked Rank 6 of Metalworking (meaning that she can now craft Calcinium equipment), but hasn’t quite made it to VR 1 yet (so she’s only able to wear gear made from Ebony).

The four adventurers crest a hill, and see two ore nodes. The one on the left is based on crafting passives, while the one on the right is based on character level.
Alice sees an Iron node on the left, and a Rubedite node on the right.
Bob sees a Rubedite node on the left, and an Iron node on the right.
Charlie sees both nodes as Rubedite.
Deborah sees a Calcinium node on the left, and an Ebony node on the right. If she were to get to VR 1 and return (and her friends hadn’t mined those resource nodes), she’d see two Calcinium nodes instead.

Once the nodes have been mined, when they respawn, they’ll randomly be selected to either base themselves off of crafting passives, or off of character level.

Let us know what you think of this proposed change! We’re hoping to use the PTS of a major Update to test this, too, so you’ll have a chance to sound off then as well.

I like this better AS LONG AS the nodes completely reset if anything is removed.
(See the feedback about worms)

Just be aware that farming mats is going to get out of hand so you really have to drastically change the re-spawn rates of nodes and those that are partially harvested.

Taleof2Cities · March 2016

MSchroeder wrote: »

Let us know what you think of this proposed change! We’re hoping to use the PTS of a major Update to test this, too, so you’ll have a chance to sound off then as well.

Personal opinion is I think the OP and the other "Alice" players are trying to ramrod this change through by creating multiple unneccessary forum threads on the topic.

Where were these players during PTS testing of Thieves Guild? The node scaling change went Live and now it is all of a sudden an inconvenience? Even though there are still non-scaled zones with which mats can be obtained???

In terms of feedback, it is pretty obvious (now or during new PTS testing) that "Bob" and "Charlie" players will support the current system and "Alice" and "Deborah" will support the proposed change suggested by @MSchroeder .

The current system should not be changed because the proposed change devalues the crafting profession.

murtrem_ESO wrote: »

Did everyone forget how ungodly easy it is to level crafts (maybe not enchanting) to 50? My first character had lvl 50 smith, woodworking, and tailoring loooong before he was level 50. At v16 having never crafted anything.. u can start to decon the drops u get from (insert activity here) and level the craft up absurdely fast. And then its what? 10 skill points? Tada! Now u can harvest the nodes you want. Its not like you need to spend another year researching traits.

^This^

So, no matter how many threads are created, I'm going to chime in opposed to a change in the current system.

Faulgor · March 2016

MSchroeder wrote: »

Let us know what you think of this proposed change! We’re hoping to use the PTS of a major Update to test this, too, so you’ll have a chance to sound off then as well.

This would be a nerf to my dedicated "Scavenger" build, which has all crafting professions maxed and skilled as well as the master gatherer champion perk, but is not max level yet. Currently that character will only find max level nodes, under the proposed system it will be supposedly only half.
So, I'm not really thrilled by this.

MissBizz · March 2016

I think that change would be better. My VR16 who has (since this change) maxxed out her crafting skills would always find rubedite for example. This would be perfect.

Sure, it would be a bit lame that my "crafter" character who is only VR2 would find a mixture of materials, but I'd really prefer that. At least she has a chance of finding high tier materials, where as right now most of my characters don't even have a chance (even if they are VR level).

helediron · March 2016

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

helediron wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

I'm honestly goin to have a brain aneurysm reading through all the narrow minded comments here. My patience on the subject is wearing very thin.
...snip...

First, there had to be some scaling. Without it, we would have bots fresh from prison back here farming. So, ZOS had to pick some scaling. The option to have best mats in area, where you can arrive at any level must not happen.

Scaling to character level would have failed badly because many do have dedicated crafters at low levels. It is way more effort to level up from thirties to vr15, than vr16 learning crafts. So, option where the area scales only to character level is not happening. It simply would favor normal players over crafters in farming, which is essential part of crafting.

Having said that, ZOS could add secondary scaling to character level. Nodes would scale to crafting skill or character level, whichever is higher. That would not hurt anybody. It would be simple to implement and solves issue with vr16 "can't craft" toons.

And having said that, it takes about a week for vr16 to level up the crafts by deconstructing high level loot. The deconstructing itself takes an hour. The scaling to craft skills is just a minor obstacle to adapt to. E.g.

Spearshard wrote: »

you waste absurd amounts of time and gold relevelling crafting.

is not true. I've leveled many alts to max crafts. It's easy.

I think vast majority of vr16 players already have craftings maxed and they just assigned the skill points. over 90% or my clients don't request improving. That means they can do it themselves, and must have developed their crafting skill to at least close to max.

The only statement you have made in this that holds weight is the fact that scaling to either char level or crafting level hurts nobody. Besides that, your statements are all untrue.

The amount of mats it would take for a straight out the gate character to reach max level in all crafts is INSANE. That is the truth. And that is assuming you are boosting it with a friend which takes two people and doubles the actual game time required. Assuming you are solely actually farming and deconstructing the dropped loot. It would would take far more than a week. Maybe with 24 hour hard farming on a character with 200 inventory space... maybe! Then you have the required 35ish skill points required. If it was a V16 char (which is only a small part of the argument as chars of all levels should have access to the mats of his/her level) it might move slightly quicker as all or most of the found loot would give the maximum allowed inspiration gain on deconstruction.
But this is all irrelevant because nobody needs two chars that can craft max level gear. It's not the intended design. And if it is, it is nothing more than pointless padding "gameplay".

Also, the dedicated low level crafter argument is nonsense. Because again, you are claiming that in order for me to be able to effeciently farm the mats needed to progress my alt, I should be required to NOT PLAY THAT CHARACTER, which is the reason for this entire discussion. I want to play and progress my alts the same way I always did. How can you not see that?

I have measured how long it takes to make multiple vr1 crafters with all six professions. I created and leveled seven of them in two months. But if you brush off knowledge from most experienced crafters, so be it. All i can say is that you have much to learn.

DHale · March 2016

Actually sounds good, I have a nb with all crafting nine trait AND I have several vr 16 with level 50 crafting but no skill points. My nb could nor fight its way out of a paper bag due to lack of skill points in passive and weapons etc... I can farm mats on it and I can't farm mats on my vr 16 except ic.

Callous2208 · March 2016

Nestor wrote: »

Entire thread of back and forth on that, not gonna repeat it now that we have ZoS input. [snip] And last time I checked, I wasn't a mat farmer looking to screw people over as you so eloquently suggested. [snip] I will choose to ignore you.

[edit for bait]

helediron · March 2016

MSchroeder wrote: »

We introduced scaled crafting resource nodes with the intent of making sure anyone could find useful crafting materials when they went to a scaled zone, such as Orsinium or Hew’s Bane.

However, since then, we’ve been monitoring feedback on scaled resources, and we’re actually looking at changing them slightly in the future. Currently, scaled nodes are based solely on your crafting passives; in the future, we’re looking at changing them to be split between your crafting passives, or your character level. We’re hoping that this helps both those characters who are leveling up naturally, and high-level characters who never craft, while still making sure that everyone can find the materials they need for both “the best you can craft” and “the best you can wear”. This seems a good opportunity to open up discussion of this potential change, and see what you all think of it.
...snnip...
Let us know what you think of this proposed change! We’re hoping to use the PTS of a major Update to test this, too, so you’ll have a chance to sound off then as well.

I think this is good improvement.

Those who have invested to character level OR crafting get 50% of material, and those who have invested to both get 100%. Because there are enough vr16 maxed crafters, i believe we don't get "node plague" like rubedite/voidstone mix caused.

I think this actually increases the value of crafting, because during IC/Orsinium all that mattered was the material. We get back to situation where people are willing to try different builds. I am expecting much more activity in crafting because of this.

My clients always send mats for vr16 crafting within order. They are farming or buying the mats anyway. The proposal makes life of non-crafters easier.

I am willing to test this on PTS.

NeillMcAttack · March 2016

@Callous2208

Please point out my contradiction! Whilst i point out what your obvious agenda all along. And it was as I pointed out before, 'elitism' or a greater sense of entitlement because your char is a crafter . You just didn't want those that didn't craft to have the same access to top level mats as yourself.

Callous2208 wrote: »

with this system you're not competing with Joe non crafter who spends all day farming high tier mats to sell back to you the crafter at astronomical prices, beating you to every node. This system is solid.

Callous2208 wrote: »

I feel your line about the economy is most likely the real hangup here. You're upset that you can't easily skim through the new zones on your non crafting main, scooping up mats to plop down on the trader. Otherwise you would see this to be a non issue and invest the points, or collect on your crafting alt.

This was never even a concern of mine in the slightest, and if i was someone who enjoyed running around collecting mats to sell why would it even matter what kind of character i did it on!?

Nestor · March 2016

Callous2208 wrote: »

Last time I checked, I wasn't a mat farmer looking to screw people over as you so eloquently suggested.

It was not meant as an insult. If that is what got you riled up, I apologize.

It would be in the best interest of a mat farmer to have as high a price as possible. If I was a mat farmer, that is what I would want. Just like it would be in the best interest as a crafter to want to pay as little as possible for mats.

The prices for VR15/16 mats are too high right now, so that is why I am saying I am over-paying for them.

[edit for quote]

NeillMcAttack · March 2016

@helediron

I am not a fan of "the grind", it does not represent natural progression, and it certainly is nothing like my play style or even the intended design of the original system. We see things very differently if you think that spending over a week of my spare time just to achieve an in game skill that I already have is something I might be even a tad bit interested in.

But answer me this, honestly please. Why did you level so many toons to be crafters? What is the point? And you can not include "to farm mats" because I'm rather certain that it was done, on the majority of occasions, prior to the change.

I'm just going to make some predictions. To complete more daily writs. Because you made an account on another platform. Convenience of not needing to log out and in to craft something. Or, just because, why not?

If any of these are the answers then you already seen value in it before this change. This was a change you or I didn't make but because it doesn't effect you, you supported it. You don't actually see why others could dislike it because their play style is nothing like yours.

Callous2208 · March 2016

Nestor wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

Last time I checked, I wasn't a mat farmer looking to screw people over as you so eloquently suggested.

It was not meant as an insult. If that is what got you riled up, I apologize.

It would be in the best interest of a mat farmer to have as high a price as possible. If I was a mat farmer, that is what I would want. Just like it would be in the best interest as a crafter to want to pay as little as possible for mats.

The prices for VR15/16 mats are too high right now, so that is why I am saying I am over-paying for them.

I understand what you're saying but honestly, now that TG has dropped, mat prices have plummeted on Pc Na. I am a crafter, through and through. The way it stands now I can put these skills to use, outfitting friends and guildies with top gear. Mats are now easily farmed in these new zones and I'm not competing for nodes with every person who runs through with no points invested. It is a boon to crafters as it stands now, thst is my only point.

[minor edit for quote]

starkerealm · March 2016

MSchroeder wrote: »

We introduced scaled crafting resource nodes with the intent of making sure anyone could find useful crafting materials when they went to a scaled zone, such as Orsinium or Hew’s Bane.

However, since then, we’ve been monitoring feedback on scaled resources, and we’re actually looking at changing them slightly in the future. Currently, scaled nodes are based solely on your crafting passives; in the future, we’re looking at changing them to be split between your crafting passives, or your character level. We’re hoping that this helps both those characters who are leveling up naturally, and high-level characters who never craft, while still making sure that everyone can find the materials they need for both “the best you can craft” and “the best you can wear”. This seems a good opportunity to open up discussion of this potential change, and see what you all think of it.

Please remember that this is only something we’re considering right now; this is not a set-in-stone plan.

To provide an example of how this would work, let me introduce four characters.
Alice has never crafted a day in her life, but has reached VR 16.
Bob is a crafting alt – he’s got Metalworking maxed out, but isn’t even high-enough level to weapon swap.
Charlie is hardcore. Not only is he VR 16, but he’s also got all of his crafting passives purchased.
Deborah is still leveling up, both in combat and in crafting. She’s just unlocked Rank 6 of Metalworking (meaning that she can now craft Calcinium equipment), but hasn’t quite made it to VR 1 yet (so she’s only able to wear gear made from Ebony).

The four adventurers crest a hill, and see two ore nodes. The one on the left is based on crafting passives, while the one on the right is based on character level.
Alice sees an Iron node on the left, and a Rubedite node on the right.
Bob sees a Rubedite node on the left, and an Iron node on the right.
Charlie sees both nodes as Rubedite.
Deborah sees a Calcinium node on the left, and an Ebony node on the right. If she were to get to VR 1 and return (and her friends hadn’t mined those resource nodes), she’d see two Calcinium nodes instead.

Once the nodes have been mined, when they respawn, they’ll randomly be selected to either base themselves off of crafting passives, or off of character level.

Let us know what you think of this proposed change! We’re hoping to use the PTS of a major Update to test this, too, so you’ll have a chance to sound off then as well.

Initially, I had a knee jerk reaction to this. But, the more I think about it, the better it sounds... with one caveat... that, honestly, might be slightly off topic. The comparative difficulty of obtaining leather. It sounds like this system would make leather even more annoying to obtain for everyone who has a crafting level and character level mismatch.

The other thought that occurs is actually splitting the node payouts when there's a crafting tier/level mismatch. So that instead of it being one or the other, it's rolling the dice to produce two unrefined mats that are leveled and one (or two) that's craft tier matched.

The logic for ore would be fairly straightforward. I'm not so sure about cloth or wood nodes, though.

Ffastyl · March 2016

Chiming in very late, and due to the Dev response, I have no strong feelings either way on the subject. Scaling based on a mix of level and crafting tier will allow all my characters to harvest useful materials at least some of the time. However this also extends to other players, increasing competition for nodes.

Under the current system, with tier 10 crafting I always find Rubedite Ore, Rubedo Hide, Ruby Ash and Ancestor Silk at every respective node, and in Wrothgar there is relatively less competition for it. Because only crafters can harvest high level materials, there are fewer harvesting and I can gather more ore for myself. I outfit all of my characters in full plate, so Rubedite is about the only resource I use and because it is used in weapon smithing, is also in constant moderate demand from the playerbase. The proposed system will bring more value to playing low level characters as they can harvest resources useful to them at their current level. This, however, creates more competition for nodes which will likely result in a shortage of ingots sooner or later.

The long term upside to the proposed system is the ability to adjust what resources are harvested via lowering crafting tier. By staying 9/10, the ore veins will become a mix of Voidstone and Rubedite, like before Update 9. This can also be used to gather ore for lower level characters on VR16 characters in the same way. The downside of increased competition for ore will also diminish over time as more zones are added and the population spreads out.

So, in the short term/immediate future I am against; in the long term I am for.

DanielMaxwell · March 2016

MSchroeder wrote: »

We introduced scaled crafting resource nodes with the intent of making sure anyone could find useful crafting materials when they went to a scaled zone, such as Orsinium or Hew’s Bane.

However, since then, we’ve been monitoring feedback on scaled resources, and we’re actually looking at changing them slightly in the future. Currently, scaled nodes are based solely on your crafting passives; in the future, we’re looking at changing them to be split between your crafting passives, or your character level. We’re hoping that this helps both those characters who are leveling up naturally, and high-level characters who never craft, while still making sure that everyone can find the materials they need for both “the best you can craft” and “the best you can wear”. This seems a good opportunity to open up discussion of this potential change, and see what you all think of it.

Please remember that this is only something we’re considering right now; this is not a set-in-stone plan.

To provide an example of how this would work, let me introduce four characters.
Alice has never crafted a day in her life, but has reached VR 16.
Bob is a crafting alt – he’s got Metalworking maxed out, but isn’t even high-enough level to weapon swap.
Charlie is hardcore. Not only is he VR 16, but he’s also got all of his crafting passives purchased.
Deborah is still leveling up, both in combat and in crafting. She’s just unlocked Rank 6 of Metalworking (meaning that she can now craft Calcinium equipment), but hasn’t quite made it to VR 1 yet (so she’s only able to wear gear made from Ebony).

The four adventurers crest a hill, and see two ore nodes. The one on the left is based on crafting passives, while the one on the right is based on character level.
Alice sees an Iron node on the left, and a Rubedite node on the right.
Bob sees a Rubedite node on the left, and an Iron node on the right.
Charlie sees both nodes as Rubedite.
Deborah sees a Calcinium node on the left, and an Ebony node on the right. If she were to get to VR 1 and return (and her friends hadn’t mined those resource nodes), she’d see two Calcinium nodes instead.

Once the nodes have been mined, when they respawn, they’ll randomly be selected to either base themselves off of crafting passives, or off of character level.

Let us know what you think of this proposed change! We’re hoping to use the PTS of a major Update to test this, too, so you’ll have a chance to sound off then as well.

Make it a toggle choice for players , the toggle should be account wide .

It does not matter which choice is the default , since the players would be able to get the nodes that they wish to receive .

i.e. if you want nodes based off of crafting level/ skill points spent then that is what you get , if on the other hand you want the nodes based off of character level that is what you get . This would meet the desire of both sides and be reasonably fair to both sides.

Nestor · March 2016

MSchroeder wrote: »

Once the nodes have been mined, when they respawn, they’ll randomly be selected to either base themselves off of crafting passives, or off of character level.

Let us know what you think of this proposed change! We’re hoping to use the PTS of a major Update to test this, too, so you’ll have a chance to sound off then as well.

It would really depend on the "random" factor that is applied. If 90% of the time it goes to Crafting Level, then that would not be good at all.

I still think it would be better to just have them scale to Crafting Level or Character Level, which ever is higher. This way the new zones work just like every other zone in the game, we find the mats that our characters can use, and the crafters who farm can go out and farm the mats they are skilled to use.

What you can't do is make this change game wide, only in the new scaled zones. Of course, if they make the existing Silver and Gold zones also Battle Scale, then it would have to be a random, as in 50/50 chance as to what we see to Farm. Otherwise, you would really be forcing people to level crafting on all their characters not just for the end game mats, but all mats.

TheValkyn · March 2016

ZOS wrote:

Hardcore
[*]Adj.
Average
"Charlie is hardcore. Not only is he VR 16, but he’s also got all of his crafting passives purchased."

NeillMcAttack · March 2016

Callous2208 wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

@Callous2208

Please point out my contradiction! Whilst i point out what your obvious agenda all along. And it was as I pointed out before, 'elitism' or a greater sense of entitlement because your char is a crafter . You just didn't want those that didn't craft to have the same access to top level mats as yourself.

Callous2208 wrote: »

with this system you're not competing with Joe non crafter who spends all day farming high tier mats to sell back to you the crafter at astronomical prices, beating you to every node. This system is solid.

Callous2208 wrote: »

I feel your line about the economy is most likely the real hangup here. You're upset that you can't easily skim through the new zones on your non crafting main, scooping up mats to plop down on the trader. Otherwise you would see this to be a non issue and invest the points, or collect on your crafting alt.

This was never even a concern of mine in the slightest, and if i was someone who enjoyed running around collecting mats to sell why would it even matter what kind of character i did it on!?

Fair enough, you got me. I'm one of those elitist jerks that thinks crafting, and by extension mastering it and using those skill points, should definitely mean something. What a quaint and terribly elitist notion. I should be ashamed. Now I'll sit all giddy with anticipation while you tell me why a crafter SHOULD, have to compete with a non crafter for mats.

Well, you see, that is a silly question as I'm sure you are aware or else I am genuinely worried for you. I'll do my best to explain it to you why but then I am done with you as I am painfully aware of how wasted the argument is going to be on you.

Why is crafting an option and not a necessity? Because some people find it fun and others do not. Some people have more time to play than others. But both should have a means of progressing through the content right!? Now, you may feel that non-crafters should rely on crafters to not only craft the gear, but supply the material also!!? But this could never work. Everyone would become a crafter, and those left would just simply quit the game. They wouldn't be able to compete, they would be a hindrance in dungeons, canon fodder in PvP, etc.

If by some miracle players that stayed still didn't craft, then imagine the burden and pressure they are putting on crafters to make them competitive. It's not enough that they have to actually take the time to craft it. But farm the mats too!! So what would be the going rate of a gold, vet 16, Armor master set? So you see, Joe non-crafter HAS to have the ability to do the leg work required to reach end-game, otherwise crafting is a necessity.

Perhaps you feel crafting SHOULD be a necessity. Then crafting has no value as everyone is crafting gear for themselves. It might surprise you also, but a LOT of players wouldn't like it and so wouldn't find the game fun.

But anyway, the reason it was a silly question. Because you DO have a greater access to materials as a crafter. Refinement chance, Writs, and Surveys......

Callous2208 · March 2016

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

@Callous2208

Please point out my contradiction! Whilst i point out what your obvious agenda all along. And it was as I pointed out before, 'elitism' or a greater sense of entitlement because your char is a crafter . You just didn't want those that didn't craft to have the same access to top level mats as yourself.

Callous2208 wrote: »

with this system you're not competing with Joe non crafter who spends all day farming high tier mats to sell back to you the crafter at astronomical prices, beating you to every node. This system is solid.

Callous2208 wrote: »

I feel your line about the economy is most likely the real hangup here. You're upset that you can't easily skim through the new zones on your non crafting main, scooping up mats to plop down on the trader. Otherwise you would see this to be a non issue and invest the points, or collect on your crafting alt.

This was never even a concern of mine in the slightest, and if i was someone who enjoyed running around collecting mats to sell why would it even matter what kind of character i did it on!?

Fair enough, you got me. I'm one of those elitist jerks that thinks crafting, and by extension mastering it and using those skill points, should definitely mean something. What a quaint and terribly elitist notion. I should be ashamed. Now I'll sit all giddy with anticipation while you tell me why a crafter SHOULD, have to compete with a non crafter for mats.

Well, you see, that is a silly question as I'm sure you are aware or else I am genuinely worried for you. I'll do my best to explain it to you why but then I am done with you as I am painfully aware of how wasted the argument is going to be on you.

Why is crafting an option and not a necessity? Because some people find it fun and others do not. Some people have more time to play than others. But both should have a means of progressing through the content right!? Now, you may feel that non-crafters should rely on crafters to not only craft the gear, but supply the material also!!? But this could never work. Everyone would become a crafter, and those left would just simply quit the game. They wouldn't be able to compete, they would be a hindrance in dungeons, canon fodder in PvP, etc.

If by some miracle players that stayed still didn't craft, then imagine the burden and pressure they are putting on crafters to make them competitive. It's not enough that they have to actually take the time to craft it. But farm the mats too!! So what would be the going rate of a gold, vet 16, Armor master set? So you see, Joe non-crafter HAS to have the ability to do the leg work required to reach end-game, otherwise crafting is a necessity.

Perhaps you feel crafting SHOULD be a necessity. Then crafting has no value as everyone is crafting gear for themselves. It might surprise you also, but a LOT of players wouldn't like it and so wouldn't find the game fun.

But anyway, the reason it was a silly question. Because you DO have a greater access to materials as a crafter. Refinement chance, Writs, and Surveys......

You just wrote and entire page to say, "Crafting in the game is a choice. People who choose not to craft should have the same benefits in crafting as those who do." I disagree.

DaveMoeDee · March 2016

NeillMcAttack wrote: »

The choice to scale them off crafting level over character level makes no sense considering that the entire base game was scaled to zone level to coincide with character level.

It makes plenty of sense. If you want to craft gear for the character you are playing, go to the proper zone. Simple solution. By doing crafting level in the scaling zones, players have options, especially if they are collecting for writs.

Writs are still a little broken though. I still get writs in Alik'r for my max provisioning level 8 alt who has access to Wrothgar.

TerraDewBerry · March 2016

Personally, I'm happy with it scaling just on crafting ability, and if there is zero crafting ability, then I guess use character level. I like coming to a scaled zone and knowing I'll find the mats I currently need to progress in crafting skills.

I also love that I can come back later and get higher levels of materials as I level up my crafting. I don't really know why it would need to be any more complicated than that.

BucMan55 · March 2016

Before reading the response from the ZOS rep I was thinking why not have it based on char level or craft level, whichever is higher...So glad to see that they had the same idea. I actually thought that was what was happening since I was getting fell hide from monsters in TG and Orsinium zones but am not even high enough level to get thick leather from mobs in the regular world. It was a bit frustrating though to mine some iron ore after killing a scorpion and getting fell hide.

DaveMoeDee · March 2016

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

My question is why even introduce a battle leveled zone to begin with.

Because people shouldn't have to level to v16 to play DLC.