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Official Tanking Feedback Thread

  • hrothbern
    hrothbern
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    Thanks to all Tanks that voted on the poll :)
    Hereby the feedback so far of the poll of last week asking which 2,3,4 piece set bonusses are least preferred by Tanks.
    http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/255362/for-the-new-tanking-set-which-2-3-4-piece-bonus-do-you-not-want#latest

    Two bonusses were least preferred by the majority of the Tanks:

    With 69% of the votes the least preferred bonus is "Adds 129 Health Recovery".
    (26% + 26% + 17% = 69%)

    With 53% of the votes the second least preferred bonus is "Adds 4% Healing Taken"
    (10% + 26% + 17%)

    see also the poll results:
    dip1miw.png?1


    Edited by hrothbern on March 30, 2016 4:04PM
    "I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU
  • Dober
    Dober
    ✭✭
    ZOS_Finn wrote: »
    Calling all Tanks!

    1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
    2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?
    3. What is your favorite encounter to tank?
    4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?
    5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favorite?
    6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?

    1. That you guys keep messing around with them bc of ppl who lack off gaming skills always cry in the Forums.

    2. No real Group Taunt!!!

    3. Team Tanking! I love to Tank in a Team. There Should be more Bosses for Team Tanking like The Round Room With the colour Swap in MoL

    4. Bosses you can't Taunt! There are some guys that just want stay on me. And Single End Bosses in Trials. Then the Off Tank just stands around

    5. My Shield ;)

    6. I would like to get a better Group Taunt. Something like Inner Fire Morph that Taunt 5 NPC's , no better 7!!

    Follow us on Facebook - The Syndicate ESO
    Join us on the PSN Community Group - The Syndicate ESO
    Add me on Facebook "Karl Doberman" for Auction inv and much more
  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
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    Dober wrote: »
    ZOS_Finn wrote: »
    Calling all Tanks!

    1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
    2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?
    3. What is your favorite encounter to tank?
    4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?
    5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favorite?
    6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?

    1. That you guys keep messing around with them bc of ppl who lack off gaming skills always cry in the Forums.

    2. No real Group Taunt!!!

    3. Team Tanking! I love to Tank in a Team. There Should be more Bosses for Team Tanking like The Round Room With the colour Swap in MoL

    4. Bosses you can't Taunt! There are some guys that just want stay on me. And Single End Bosses in Trials. Then the Off Tank just stands around

    5. My Shield ;)

    6. I would like to get a better Group Taunt. Something like Inner Fire Morph that Taunt 5 NPC's , no better 7!!

    Most of the other feedback in this thread is quite the opposite regarding Group Taunts.
    People like it that tanks need to prioritize targets, myself included.
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
  • Personofsecrets
    Personofsecrets
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    I wish that the aggro modifier would be how it used to be though. Enemies used to check the tank used, for example, caltrops
    Don't tank

    "In future content we will probably adjust this model somewhat (The BOP model). It's definitely nice to be able to find a cool item that you don't need and trade it to someone who can't wait to get their hands on it." - Wrobel
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    I wish that the aggro modifier would be how it used to be though. Enemies used to check the tank used, for example, caltrops

    I really wish Caltrops were more feasible to use as a tank right now. It was my best 'cc' that I had on my Templar character. The Fire rune is a terrible cc and built more around the mage tanking build, which I find somehow repulsive as a general rule (and always have). It probably has to do with my notion of an armored knight charging out to break enemy lines. That's in my view what a tank should be here. I can live with magical alternatives but it has never been the flavor I wanted (though I've made it work to great success on my Sorc in the past), and to a lesser extent DK.

    My biggest problem though with using Caltrops is its exorbitant cost combined with the nerf to block regeneration. A Health/Stam Templar Tank can't afford to use Caltrops for very long (and I'm talking about with the aid of stamina regeneration sets) unless there are a lot of adds. It might be semi-feasible with engine guardian but I haven't gotten that set the way I want it yet, and I also find it more than annoying the reliance Templars are expected to have on this one set.
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • Ariisen
    Ariisen
    ✭✭✭
    ZOS_Finn wrote: »
    Calling all Tanks!

    1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
    2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?
    3. What is your favorite encounter to tank?
    4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?
    5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favorite?
    6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?

    Thanks a lot for your feedback. We look forward to hearing what you have to say!

    XB1, I've tanked all content in the game except vMoL.

    1. Taunt the big things, CC the rest. It's pretty fun.
    2. No stamina regen while blocking.
    3. Probably Mantikora or Molag Kena HM, the twins on vMoL seems really fun but I've only DPSed there so far.
    4. The Lord Warden fight makes me feel useless.
    5. Chains and Talons lol.
    6. I think Heavy Armor passives need some love.
    [XBOX ONE - Daggerfall Covenant - EU - CP 600+]
    Gamertag: msYuuu
    My Veteran Level Toons:
    Zemska - Breton NightBlade [DC]
    Riiful - Imperial DragonKnight [DC]
    Nikole - Breton Sorcerer [DC]
    Mashu - Bosmer NightBlade [DC]
    Helise - Breton Templar [DC]
    Syosetsuka - Imperial Sorcerer [DC]
    Majken - Altmer Dragonknight[DC]



    I'm back after 3 months yoh.
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    ✭✭✭
    One thing I find offensive from the community and I just want to point it out: Why do some of you guys keep throwing PvP Tanks under the bus? I realize that you love your PvE stuff but did it ever occur to you that some people like to do PvE but they also like to PvP as well? By stating that you enjoy the balance of Tanking the way it occurs now, you are essentially saying you are happy that tanking is really only a raiding thing. If that is your point of view you're certainly welcome to it, but I don't see how you feel justified in it. Why should one class/spec be only functional in such a narrow arena? A true tank build is pretty pathetic in doing story content. A true tank build is pretty pathetic right now in pve. No other Spec has to make these kinds of adaptations nor incurs the same kinds of costs. Why do people feel that this is an acceptable balance to the Tank build? I'm all for challenge but there is a reason why many of us gave up our shields, with some regret I might add. I just don't want to have to keep respeccing my build or paying through the nose to obtain multiple very different types of gear. I don't have time to do all of that, and with what little time I have currently to play I want to be able to enjoy my game to the fullest. Right now that means moving toward the DPS realm. It is the elephant in the room and everyone knows it. Block mitigation was nerfed to its core (0% regeneration) meanwhile other forms of mitigation simply have scaling costs. In other words their punitive measures are significantly less punitive. I really needed to get this off my chest, because it has been bothering me for quite some time in this community.

    I realize there was a time when we had the Dress-&-Shield Tanks, and they were OP for a lot of reasons that I don't want to get into. What I'm talking about is that the game itself needs to be properly balanced so that there is a REAL place for Tanks in all arenas of the game, not just raiding. To be honest Tanking has been pushed out of most of the vet dungeons at this point in large part because people belch out so much dps and have so much mitigation from CP you don't need a tank. Health is an inferior stat that affords far less functionality than Magicka or Stamina. This is not a big mystery to anyone who understands the game. As a community and also the game designers need to rethink this. I gave up being a Tank not out of choice or preference, but simply because it is too annoying to do so. I find it too annoying to have to change my build, pay the fines, change my loadout, then do a few dungeons and reverse it all again so I can go back to pvp. What utter nonsense is that? This game was in large part sold to us with the RvRvR aspect and that is what quite a few of us were excited about, AS WELL AS THE Elder Scrolls theme. I'm in it for both, and I really wish some of you guys would acquiesce and realize that others may have a different point of view. I want better balance for the game.
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
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    One thing I find offensive from the community and I just want to point it out: Why do some of you guys keep throwing PvP Tanks under the bus? I realize that you love your PvE stuff but did it ever occur to you that some people like to do PvE but they also like to PvP as well? By stating that you enjoy the balance of Tanking the way it occurs now, you are essentially saying you are happy that tanking is really only a raiding thing. If that is your point of view you're certainly welcome to it, but I don't see how you feel justified in it. Why should one class/spec be only functional in such a narrow arena? A true tank build is pretty pathetic in doing story content. A true tank build is pretty pathetic right now in pve. No other Spec has to make these kinds of adaptations nor incurs the same kinds of costs. Why do people feel that this is an acceptable balance to the Tank build? I'm all for challenge but there is a reason why many of us gave up our shields, with some regret I might add. I just don't want to have to keep respeccing my build or paying through the nose to obtain multiple very different types of gear. I don't have time to do all of that, and with what little time I have currently to play I want to be able to enjoy my game to the fullest. Right now that means moving toward the DPS realm. It is the elephant in the room and everyone knows it. Block mitigation was nerfed to its core (0% regeneration) meanwhile other forms of mitigation simply have scaling costs. In other words their punitive measures are significantly less punitive. I really needed to get this off my chest, because it has been bothering me for quite some time in this community.

    I realize there was a time when we had the Dress-&-Shield Tanks, and they were OP for a lot of reasons that I don't want to get into. What I'm talking about is that the game itself needs to be properly balanced so that there is a REAL place for Tanks in all arenas of the game, not just raiding. To be honest Tanking has been pushed out of most of the vet dungeons at this point in large part because people belch out so much dps and have so much mitigation from CP you don't need a tank. Health is an inferior stat that affords far less functionality than Magicka or Stamina. This is not a big mystery to anyone who understands the game. As a community and also the game designers need to rethink this. I gave up being a Tank not out of choice or preference, but simply because it is too annoying to do so. I find it too annoying to have to change my build, pay the fines, change my loadout, then do a few dungeons and reverse it all again so I can go back to pvp. What utter nonsense is that? This game was in large part sold to us with the RvRvR aspect and that is what quite a few of us were excited about, AS WELL AS THE Elder Scrolls theme. I'm in it for both, and I really wish some of you guys would acquiesce and realize that others may have a different point of view. I want better balance for the game.

    Just... NO.

    Every role needs to respec differently when switching from PvE to PvP content. Tank being no exception.
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    ✭✭✭
    Dubhliam wrote: »
    One thing I find offensive from the community and I just want to point it out: Why do some of you guys keep throwing PvP Tanks under the bus? I realize that you love your PvE stuff but did it ever occur to you that some people like to do PvE but they also like to PvP as well? By stating that you enjoy the balance of Tanking the way it occurs now, you are essentially saying you are happy that tanking is really only a raiding thing. If that is your point of view you're certainly welcome to it, but I don't see how you feel justified in it. Why should one class/spec be only functional in such a narrow arena? A true tank build is pretty pathetic in doing story content. A true tank build is pretty pathetic right now in pve. No other Spec has to make these kinds of adaptations nor incurs the same kinds of costs. Why do people feel that this is an acceptable balance to the Tank build? I'm all for challenge but there is a reason why many of us gave up our shields, with some regret I might add. I just don't want to have to keep respeccing my build or paying through the nose to obtain multiple very different types of gear. I don't have time to do all of that, and with what little time I have currently to play I want to be able to enjoy my game to the fullest. Right now that means moving toward the DPS realm. It is the elephant in the room and everyone knows it. Block mitigation was nerfed to its core (0% regeneration) meanwhile other forms of mitigation simply have scaling costs. In other words their punitive measures are significantly less punitive. I really needed to get this off my chest, because it has been bothering me for quite some time in this community.

    I realize there was a time when we had the Dress-&-Shield Tanks, and they were OP for a lot of reasons that I don't want to get into. What I'm talking about is that the game itself needs to be properly balanced so that there is a REAL place for Tanks in all arenas of the game, not just raiding. To be honest Tanking has been pushed out of most of the vet dungeons at this point in large part because people belch out so much dps and have so much mitigation from CP you don't need a tank. Health is an inferior stat that affords far less functionality than Magicka or Stamina. This is not a big mystery to anyone who understands the game. As a community and also the game designers need to rethink this. I gave up being a Tank not out of choice or preference, but simply because it is too annoying to do so. I find it too annoying to have to change my build, pay the fines, change my loadout, then do a few dungeons and reverse it all again so I can go back to pvp. What utter nonsense is that? This game was in large part sold to us with the RvRvR aspect and that is what quite a few of us were excited about, AS WELL AS THE Elder Scrolls theme. I'm in it for both, and I really wish some of you guys would acquiesce and realize that others may have a different point of view. I want better balance for the game.

    Just... NO.

    Every role needs to respec differently when switching from PvE to PvP content. Tank being no exception.

    The disparity is stark. You are spouting nonsense. A healing build requires very minor adjustment for pvp. A DPS build requires very minor adjustment in most cases for pvp. Tanking is not like that. I'm sorry but you are full of it here, and even if you were correct it is just bad game design. The gold sink would be one thing, but the annoying time sink just compounds the issue. You're welcome to your strong convictions, I just feel they are baseless, and I'm certain there are many others who agree.
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
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    ✭✭✭✭
    One thing I find offensive from the community and I just want to point it out: Why do some of you guys keep throwing PvP Tanks under the bus?

    8 pages of feedback from tanks here, and I didn't see anything anti-PVP. You are going to have to trot out some specifics of suggestions that are anti-PVP and offensive for me to read your posts as anything other than a rant in a place where we were asked to give feedback to make tanking better.
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
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    ✭✭✭
    NBrookus wrote: »
    One thing I find offensive from the community and I just want to point it out: Why do some of you guys keep throwing PvP Tanks under the bus?

    8 pages of feedback from tanks here, and I didn't see anything anti-PVP. You are going to have to trot out some specifics of suggestions that are anti-PVP and offensive for me to read your posts as anything other than a rant in a place where we were asked to give feedback to make tanking better.

    I may have crossed wires, if I did my apologies. At any regard it was just an observation, and I didn't mean to overtake the conversation. I just wanted to remind folks that its not healthy for the game to have this us vs. them mentality, nor is it healthy for tanks in general. In that sense I think it very much relates to tanking feedback and balance.
    Edited by dodgehopper_ESO on April 14, 2016 10:20PM
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
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    Dubhliam wrote: »
    One thing I find offensive from the community and I just want to point it out: Why do some of you guys keep throwing PvP Tanks under the bus? I realize that you love your PvE stuff but did it ever occur to you that some people like to do PvE but they also like to PvP as well? By stating that you enjoy the balance of Tanking the way it occurs now, you are essentially saying you are happy that tanking is really only a raiding thing. If that is your point of view you're certainly welcome to it, but I don't see how you feel justified in it. Why should one class/spec be only functional in such a narrow arena? A true tank build is pretty pathetic in doing story content. A true tank build is pretty pathetic right now in pve. No other Spec has to make these kinds of adaptations nor incurs the same kinds of costs. Why do people feel that this is an acceptable balance to the Tank build? I'm all for challenge but there is a reason why many of us gave up our shields, with some regret I might add. I just don't want to have to keep respeccing my build or paying through the nose to obtain multiple very different types of gear. I don't have time to do all of that, and with what little time I have currently to play I want to be able to enjoy my game to the fullest. Right now that means moving toward the DPS realm. It is the elephant in the room and everyone knows it. Block mitigation was nerfed to its core (0% regeneration) meanwhile other forms of mitigation simply have scaling costs. In other words their punitive measures are significantly less punitive. I really needed to get this off my chest, because it has been bothering me for quite some time in this community.

    I realize there was a time when we had the Dress-&-Shield Tanks, and they were OP for a lot of reasons that I don't want to get into. What I'm talking about is that the game itself needs to be properly balanced so that there is a REAL place for Tanks in all arenas of the game, not just raiding. To be honest Tanking has been pushed out of most of the vet dungeons at this point in large part because people belch out so much dps and have so much mitigation from CP you don't need a tank. Health is an inferior stat that affords far less functionality than Magicka or Stamina. This is not a big mystery to anyone who understands the game. As a community and also the game designers need to rethink this. I gave up being a Tank not out of choice or preference, but simply because it is too annoying to do so. I find it too annoying to have to change my build, pay the fines, change my loadout, then do a few dungeons and reverse it all again so I can go back to pvp. What utter nonsense is that? This game was in large part sold to us with the RvRvR aspect and that is what quite a few of us were excited about, AS WELL AS THE Elder Scrolls theme. I'm in it for both, and I really wish some of you guys would acquiesce and realize that others may have a different point of view. I want better balance for the game.

    Just... NO.

    Every role needs to respec differently when switching from PvE to PvP content. Tank being no exception.

    The disparity is stark. You are spouting nonsense. A healing build requires very minor adjustment for pvp. A DPS build requires very minor adjustment in most cases for pvp. Tanking is not like that. I'm sorry but you are full of it here, and even if you were correct it is just bad game design. The gold sink would be one thing, but the annoying time sink just compounds the issue. You're welcome to your strong convictions, I just feel they are baseless, and I'm certain there are many others who agree.

    Since I am "full of it" and "spouting nonsense" I just might clarify some things here.

    If you can't switch from tanking to DPS by clicking two buttons using [insert your addon here], then you are incapable of playing this MMO.
    What is more likely is that you are just lazy, and want your playstyle to be valid in every aspect of the game.

    You will be better off when you realize the word "tank" signifies a role in group content.

    I have no problems changing from tanking spec to DPS spec in two clicks. Because I realize I can't go around killing mobs in HA Hist Bark + Footman.
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
  • hrothbern
    hrothbern
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    I think we should not touch the topic PVP in this thread in any way

    it will most probably only dilute the feedback

    So far it is nicely focussed :)

    Edited by hrothbern on April 15, 2016 7:17AM
    "I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU
  • Woeler
    Woeler
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    Dubhliam wrote: »
    Dubhliam wrote: »
    One thing I find offensive from the community and I just want to point it out: Why do some of you guys keep throwing PvP Tanks under the bus? I realize that you love your PvE stuff but did it ever occur to you that some people like to do PvE but they also like to PvP as well? By stating that you enjoy the balance of Tanking the way it occurs now, you are essentially saying you are happy that tanking is really only a raiding thing. If that is your point of view you're certainly welcome to it, but I don't see how you feel justified in it. Why should one class/spec be only functional in such a narrow arena? A true tank build is pretty pathetic in doing story content. A true tank build is pretty pathetic right now in pve. No other Spec has to make these kinds of adaptations nor incurs the same kinds of costs. Why do people feel that this is an acceptable balance to the Tank build? I'm all for challenge but there is a reason why many of us gave up our shields, with some regret I might add. I just don't want to have to keep respeccing my build or paying through the nose to obtain multiple very different types of gear. I don't have time to do all of that, and with what little time I have currently to play I want to be able to enjoy my game to the fullest. Right now that means moving toward the DPS realm. It is the elephant in the room and everyone knows it. Block mitigation was nerfed to its core (0% regeneration) meanwhile other forms of mitigation simply have scaling costs. In other words their punitive measures are significantly less punitive. I really needed to get this off my chest, because it has been bothering me for quite some time in this community.

    I realize there was a time when we had the Dress-&-Shield Tanks, and they were OP for a lot of reasons that I don't want to get into. What I'm talking about is that the game itself needs to be properly balanced so that there is a REAL place for Tanks in all arenas of the game, not just raiding. To be honest Tanking has been pushed out of most of the vet dungeons at this point in large part because people belch out so much dps and have so much mitigation from CP you don't need a tank. Health is an inferior stat that affords far less functionality than Magicka or Stamina. This is not a big mystery to anyone who understands the game. As a community and also the game designers need to rethink this. I gave up being a Tank not out of choice or preference, but simply because it is too annoying to do so. I find it too annoying to have to change my build, pay the fines, change my loadout, then do a few dungeons and reverse it all again so I can go back to pvp. What utter nonsense is that? This game was in large part sold to us with the RvRvR aspect and that is what quite a few of us were excited about, AS WELL AS THE Elder Scrolls theme. I'm in it for both, and I really wish some of you guys would acquiesce and realize that others may have a different point of view. I want better balance for the game.

    Just... NO.

    Every role needs to respec differently when switching from PvE to PvP content. Tank being no exception.

    The disparity is stark. You are spouting nonsense. A healing build requires very minor adjustment for pvp. A DPS build requires very minor adjustment in most cases for pvp. Tanking is not like that. I'm sorry but you are full of it here, and even if you were correct it is just bad game design. The gold sink would be one thing, but the annoying time sink just compounds the issue. You're welcome to your strong convictions, I just feel they are baseless, and I'm certain there are many others who agree.

    Since I am "full of it" and "spouting nonsense" I just might clarify some things here.

    If you can't switch from tanking to DPS by clicking two buttons using [insert your addon here], then you are incapable of playing this MMO.
    What is more likely is that you are just lazy, and want your playstyle to be valid in every aspect of the game.

    You will be better off when you realize the word "tank" signifies a role in group content.

    I have no problems changing from tanking spec to DPS spec in two clicks. Because I realize I can't go around killing mobs in HA Hist Bark + Footman.

    Agreed.
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Dubhliam wrote: »
    Dubhliam wrote: »
    One thing I find offensive from the community and I just want to point it out: Why do some of you guys keep throwing PvP Tanks under the bus? I realize that you love your PvE stuff but did it ever occur to you that some people like to do PvE but they also like to PvP as well? By stating that you enjoy the balance of Tanking the way it occurs now, you are essentially saying you are happy that tanking is really only a raiding thing. If that is your point of view you're certainly welcome to it, but I don't see how you feel justified in it. Why should one class/spec be only functional in such a narrow arena? A true tank build is pretty pathetic in doing story content. A true tank build is pretty pathetic right now in pve. No other Spec has to make these kinds of adaptations nor incurs the same kinds of costs. Why do people feel that this is an acceptable balance to the Tank build? I'm all for challenge but there is a reason why many of us gave up our shields, with some regret I might add. I just don't want to have to keep respeccing my build or paying through the nose to obtain multiple very different types of gear. I don't have time to do all of that, and with what little time I have currently to play I want to be able to enjoy my game to the fullest. Right now that means moving toward the DPS realm. It is the elephant in the room and everyone knows it. Block mitigation was nerfed to its core (0% regeneration) meanwhile other forms of mitigation simply have scaling costs. In other words their punitive measures are significantly less punitive. I really needed to get this off my chest, because it has been bothering me for quite some time in this community.

    I realize there was a time when we had the Dress-&-Shield Tanks, and they were OP for a lot of reasons that I don't want to get into. What I'm talking about is that the game itself needs to be properly balanced so that there is a REAL place for Tanks in all arenas of the game, not just raiding. To be honest Tanking has been pushed out of most of the vet dungeons at this point in large part because people belch out so much dps and have so much mitigation from CP you don't need a tank. Health is an inferior stat that affords far less functionality than Magicka or Stamina. This is not a big mystery to anyone who understands the game. As a community and also the game designers need to rethink this. I gave up being a Tank not out of choice or preference, but simply because it is too annoying to do so. I find it too annoying to have to change my build, pay the fines, change my loadout, then do a few dungeons and reverse it all again so I can go back to pvp. What utter nonsense is that? This game was in large part sold to us with the RvRvR aspect and that is what quite a few of us were excited about, AS WELL AS THE Elder Scrolls theme. I'm in it for both, and I really wish some of you guys would acquiesce and realize that others may have a different point of view. I want better balance for the game.

    Just... NO.

    Every role needs to respec differently when switching from PvE to PvP content. Tank being no exception.

    The disparity is stark. You are spouting nonsense. A healing build requires very minor adjustment for pvp. A DPS build requires very minor adjustment in most cases for pvp. Tanking is not like that. I'm sorry but you are full of it here, and even if you were correct it is just bad game design. The gold sink would be one thing, but the annoying time sink just compounds the issue. You're welcome to your strong convictions, I just feel they are baseless, and I'm certain there are many others who agree.

    Since I am "full of it" and "spouting nonsense" I just might clarify some things here.

    If you can't switch from tanking to DPS by clicking two buttons using [insert your addon here], then you are incapable of playing this MMO.
    What is more likely is that you are just lazy, and want your playstyle to be valid in every aspect of the game.

    You will be better off when you realize the word "tank" signifies a role in group content.

    I have no problems changing from tanking spec to DPS spec in two clicks. Because I realize I can't go around killing mobs in HA Hist Bark + Footman.

    This is getting a little too polemic, and I don't want to raise the hostility here. The point is quite simply that I'm sick and tired of people suggesting that I should have to play as a DPS in Cyrodiil to begin with. I've actually moved to the DPS role out there, but it wasn't my first love. Even in the early days of the game playing as a tank in Cyrodiil was a niche choice but it had its place, particularly when I was power bashing the hell out of people while my comrades would mark the target and take them down. It was fun. I loved being able to Blazing Shield someone to death because they couldn't figure out they needed to back off from me. I loved it when DK's would try to talon and whiplash me and I'd blazing shield them back. It made it interesting and there was a fun counterplay. All of those Tanks out there who love having 0% stamina regeneration while blocking, I'm glad they enjoy that in Dungeons, but it is terrible for pvp. I'm far more Tanky now using Elusive, wearing dps sets, and dodge rolling or using invisible pots to get to safety. I think that speaks volumes. The 0% solution was never good for all Tanks. It is terrible for Sorcs and Templars. The nerf also made the block passives of the DK and Templar class a lot less effective and useful, and the passive was already not that amazing.

    The point is quite simply that many PvE players throw Tanks under the bus who were doing just fine before the massive changes that we've undergone in the last year. I'm not talking about people wearing light armor and a shield either. I'm talking about a full plate-wearing Tank. Why do people feel it is acceptable for a Full Plate Tank to be suboptimal in PvP? That is my problem with your whole attitude. I should not have to swap to a DPS role. It is pvp so I expect to need to dial the DPS up from PVE levels. That goes without saying. I bring this conversation up because I wanted to make sure the WHOLE world of Tanking is being discussed, and not just what makes the Raiders and Trial-goers happy. It is my hope to go back to the days where a tank enters pvp with the goal of helping his TEAM take resources. I realize you can swap to Julianos or Hundings or Alchemist or whatever new set floats your boat. Gear is not the only concern here. Never before in over 15 years of playing MMO's have I actually decided that I'd rather be DPS than a Tank. This game is the first one to do that to me. Ironically enough I still love the game, but I think they've gotten tanking way wrong at least in the PVP arena, and I want that voice to be heard. As the game develops we are not seeing better mitigation, in fact what we are actually seeing is they keep weakening mitigation. What we are seeing instead is a continual and constant power creep of damage output. This is why I think your whole attitude is wrong. I think this is an area where we as Tanks can come together. If you like tanking in PvE, why wouldn't you want to be effective AS A TANK in Cyrodiil? I'm not suggesting Tanks be overpowered, but I don't see how raising your shield should be a liability if you are a tank.
    Edited by dodgehopper_ESO on April 15, 2016 5:40PM
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Dubhliam wrote: »
    Dubhliam wrote: »
    One thing I find offensive from the community and I just want to point it out: Why do some of you guys keep throwing PvP Tanks under the bus? I realize that you love your PvE stuff but did it ever occur to you that some people like to do PvE but they also like to PvP as well? By stating that you enjoy the balance of Tanking the way it occurs now, you are essentially saying you are happy that tanking is really only a raiding thing. If that is your point of view you're certainly welcome to it, but I don't see how you feel justified in it. Why should one class/spec be only functional in such a narrow arena? A true tank build is pretty pathetic in doing story content. A true tank build is pretty pathetic right now in pve. No other Spec has to make these kinds of adaptations nor incurs the same kinds of costs. Why do people feel that this is an acceptable balance to the Tank build? I'm all for challenge but there is a reason why many of us gave up our shields, with some regret I might add. I just don't want to have to keep respeccing my build or paying through the nose to obtain multiple very different types of gear. I don't have time to do all of that, and with what little time I have currently to play I want to be able to enjoy my game to the fullest. Right now that means moving toward the DPS realm. It is the elephant in the room and everyone knows it. Block mitigation was nerfed to its core (0% regeneration) meanwhile other forms of mitigation simply have scaling costs. In other words their punitive measures are significantly less punitive. I really needed to get this off my chest, because it has been bothering me for quite some time in this community.

    I realize there was a time when we had the Dress-&-Shield Tanks, and they were OP for a lot of reasons that I don't want to get into. What I'm talking about is that the game itself needs to be properly balanced so that there is a REAL place for Tanks in all arenas of the game, not just raiding. To be honest Tanking has been pushed out of most of the vet dungeons at this point in large part because people belch out so much dps and have so much mitigation from CP you don't need a tank. Health is an inferior stat that affords far less functionality than Magicka or Stamina. This is not a big mystery to anyone who understands the game. As a community and also the game designers need to rethink this. I gave up being a Tank not out of choice or preference, but simply because it is too annoying to do so. I find it too annoying to have to change my build, pay the fines, change my loadout, then do a few dungeons and reverse it all again so I can go back to pvp. What utter nonsense is that? This game was in large part sold to us with the RvRvR aspect and that is what quite a few of us were excited about, AS WELL AS THE Elder Scrolls theme. I'm in it for both, and I really wish some of you guys would acquiesce and realize that others may have a different point of view. I want better balance for the game.

    Just... NO.

    Every role needs to respec differently when switching from PvE to PvP content. Tank being no exception.

    The disparity is stark. You are spouting nonsense. A healing build requires very minor adjustment for pvp. A DPS build requires very minor adjustment in most cases for pvp. Tanking is not like that. I'm sorry but you are full of it here, and even if you were correct it is just bad game design. The gold sink would be one thing, but the annoying time sink just compounds the issue. You're welcome to your strong convictions, I just feel they are baseless, and I'm certain there are many others who agree.

    Since I am "full of it" and "spouting nonsense" I just might clarify some things here.

    If you can't switch from tanking to DPS by clicking two buttons using [insert your addon here], then you are incapable of playing this MMO.
    What is more likely is that you are just lazy, and want your playstyle to be valid in every aspect of the game.

    You will be better off when you realize the word "tank" signifies a role in group content.

    I have no problems changing from tanking spec to DPS spec in two clicks. Because I realize I can't go around killing mobs in HA Hist Bark + Footman.

    This is getting a little too polemic, and I don't want to raise the hostility here. The point is quite simply that I'm sick and tired of people suggesting that I should have to play as a DPS in Cyrodiil to begin with. I've actually moved to the DPS role out there, but it wasn't my first love. Even in the early days of the game playing as a tank in Cyrodiil was a niche choice but it had its place, particularly when I was power bashing the hell out of people while my comrades would mark the target and take them down. It was fun. I loved being able to Blazing Shield someone to death because they couldn't figure out they needed to back off from me. I loved it when DK's would try to talon and whiplash me and I'd blazing shield them back. It made it interesting and there was a fun counterplay. All of those Tanks out there who love having 0% stamina regeneration while blocking, I'm glad they enjoy that in Dungeons, but it is terrible for pvp. I'm far more Tanky now using Elusive, wearing dps sets, and dodge rolling or using invisible pots to get to safety. I think that speaks volumes. The 0% solution was never good for all Tanks. It is terrible for Sorcs and Templars. The nerf also made the block passives of the DK and Templar class a lot less effective and useful, and the passive was already not that amazing.

    The point is quite simply that many PvE players throw Tanks under the bus who were doing just fine before the massive changes that we've undergone in the last year. I'm not talking about people wearing light armor and a shield either. I'm talking about a full plate-wearing Tank. Why do people feel it is acceptable for a Full Plate Tank to be suboptimal in PvP? That is my problem with your whole attitude. I should not have to swap to a DPS role. It is pvp so I expect to need to dial the DPS up from PVE levels. That goes without saying. I bring this conversation up because I wanted to make sure the WHOLE world of Tanking is being discussed, and not just what makes the Raiders and Trial-goers happy. It is my hope to go back to the days where a tank enters pvp with the goal of helping his TEAM take resources. I realize you can swap to Julianos or Hundings or Alchemist or whatever new set floats your boat. Gear is not the only concern here. Never before in over 15 years of playing MMO's have I actually decided that I'd rather be DPS than a Tank. This game is the first one to do that to me. Ironically enough I still love the game, but I think they've gotten tanking way wrong at least in the PVP arena, and I want that voice to be heard. As the game develops we are not seeing better mitigation, in fact what we are actually seeing is they keep weakening mitigation. What we are seeing instead is a continual and constant power creep of damage output. This is why I think your whole attitude is wrong. I think this is an area where we as Tanks can come together. If you like tanking in PvE, why wouldn't you want to be effective AS A TANK in Cyrodiil? I'm not suggesting Tanks be overpowered, but I don't see how raising your shield should be a liability if you are a tank.
    ZOS_Finn wrote: »
    Calling all Tanks!

    The Dungeon and Gameplay teams would love to get some feedback from all of you damage sponge, block mastering, mitigation kings out there. This thread is going to mainly cover PvE encounters specifically in group dungeons or Trials. If you like to play a tank in ESO and want to have your voice heard, or you don't and want us to know why, please answer the following questions. Please make sure you mention if you primarily play on console or PC.

    1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
    2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?
    3. What is your favorite encounter to tank?
    4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?
    5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favorite?
    6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?

    Thanks a lot for your feedback. We look forward to hearing what you have to say!

    Enough with PvP please.
    If you can't contribute to this thread, there are a lot of other threads that you can discuss your PvP problems.
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    I said my peace, we know each others view. @ZOS_Finn originally said the discussion was mainly going to hit on PVE. I've given plenty of my own constructive thoughts on multiple matters not including PvP. I certainly have free license to discuss PvP though. I don't see adding a little extra feedback on this matter though as a dilution. I'm simply stating my view that Heavy Plate should make sense in Cyrodiil, period. It should be a low damage, cc oriented build that generates damage in a slow and building manner. It should be fair to DPS role enemies, it should be fair to Healers. This thread has been all but dead for a while though and our banter more or less revived it after a near week of silence. You should be happy about that at least. My own guess on the matter is that Developers have gleaned whatever they wanted out of the thread already and moved on.

    There are really two solutions to the issue I'm stating. They could go the DCUO/STO Path and offer different saved character builds. You simply hit a loadout and you would be ready to go for PvP or PvE. It is not just a matter of changing gear. It can also be a matter of changing morphs, changing attribute points, and changing champion points, all of which have a cost associated to them. Having alternate specs to represent the complete different rules of both worlds of the game might be helpful.

    The other solution I offer is that they build the balance of the game around pvp, and work their way back through pve to make pve feel more like Pvp. DCUO did this and I really thought it was great. I have a feeling this was ZoS original intention based on their pitch throughout beta and the early phase of the game. The way enemies would synergize (like players) and the way NPC's were supposed to be intelligent and go get their buddies was a part of this Pvp-like element. Give the NPC's interrupts, heavy attacks, etc. Those are all PvP-like skills. I think more than any other thing this is what I appreciated about DCUO when I was playing it.
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I said my peace, we know each others view. @ZOS_Finn originally said the discussion was mainly going to hit on PVE. I've given plenty of my own constructive thoughts on multiple matters not including PvP. I certainly have free license to discuss PvP though. I don't see adding a little extra feedback on this matter though as a dilution. I'm simply stating my view that Heavy Plate should make sense in Cyrodiil, period. It should be a low damage, cc oriented build that generates damage in a slow and building manner. It should be fair to DPS role enemies, it should be fair to Healers. This thread has been all but dead for a while though and our banter more or less revived it after a near week of silence. You should be happy about that at least. My own guess on the matter is that Developers have gleaned whatever they wanted out of the thread already and moved on.

    There are really two solutions to the issue I'm stating. They could go the DCUO/STO Path and offer different saved character builds. You simply hit a loadout and you would be ready to go for PvP or PvE. It is not just a matter of changing gear. It can also be a matter of changing morphs, changing attribute points, and changing champion points, all of which have a cost associated to them. Having alternate specs to represent the complete different rules of both worlds of the game might be helpful.

    The other solution I offer is that they build the balance of the game around pvp, and work their way back through pve to make pve feel more like Pvp. DCUO did this and I really thought it was great. I have a feeling this was ZoS original intention based on their pitch throughout beta and the early phase of the game. The way enemies would synergize (like players) and the way NPC's were supposed to be intelligent and go get their buddies was a part of this Pvp-like element. Give the NPC's interrupts, heavy attacks, etc. Those are all PvP-like skills. I think more than any other thing this is what I appreciated about DCUO when I was playing it.

    As I said before, you should realize that this thread is about tanking. Meaning a role in a dungeon/trial.

    Your issue is not with tanking, it is with Heavy Armor passives.

    And I agree, they are terrible. HA PvPers suffer, although some still manage to create viable, and sometimes even OP HA builds in PvP.
    I urge you to discuss your views in one of the many Heavy Armor threads.
    Such as this one.
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
  • NBrookus
    NBrookus
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭
    I was very unhappy with the stam regen nerf. I adapted, but I'm still extremely unhappy with it; it was a
    stupid and done to appease PvP QQ'ers, not to make tanking better. Never once have I heard a PvE tank say, "screw those PvP tanks, we want to be nerfed!" Instead it was PvP that screwed PvE.

    I think your anger is misplaced. Perhaps it should be directed at that vocal minority in PvP who whine anytime they can't kill someone. I'd love to take my tank into PvP, but she stays in PvE where she's nerfed and not much fun to play now, but at least has a point to existing.
  • jzholloway
    jzholloway
    ✭✭✭
    1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?

    I've always liked playing a tank in all of the MMO's I have played.

    2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?

    Hmm... stamina regen... :) Not really, not too big of a deal. Honestly, the fact that it feels like Tanks aren't necessary for every boss fight - or - that the mechanics in some boss fights are conducive to tanking. What i mean is, tanks aren't meant to push out a ton of damage - can they fight, yes, but it is not their main purpose. Some bosses feel like it needs a third or fourth DPS rather then a tank. That and leveling one... again, no weapon damage means fights last a lot longer if leveling by yourself spec'd as a tank.

    3. What is your favorite encounter to tank?

    I might catch crap for this, but Ibomez the Flesh Sculptor

    4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?

    Goes back to question number 2 - Planar Inhibitor

    5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favorite?

    Taunts and crowd control - if done right, it is amazing

    6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?

    It would be real nice to have an "AoE" taunt - meaning a taunt to hit more then one enemy at a time.
    PC/NA
  • Personofsecrets
    Personofsecrets
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    Dubhliam wrote: »
    Dubhliam wrote: »
    One thing I find offensive from the community and I just want to point it out: Why do some of you guys keep throwing PvP Tanks under the bus? I realize that you love your PvE stuff but did it ever occur to you that some people like to do PvE but they also like to PvP as well? By stating that you enjoy the balance of Tanking the way it occurs now, you are essentially saying you are happy that tanking is really only a raiding thing. If that is your point of view you're certainly welcome to it, but I don't see how you feel justified in it. Why should one class/spec be only functional in such a narrow arena? A true tank build is pretty pathetic in doing story content. A true tank build is pretty pathetic right now in pve. No other Spec has to make these kinds of adaptations nor incurs the same kinds of costs. Why do people feel that this is an acceptable balance to the Tank build? I'm all for challenge but there is a reason why many of us gave up our shields, with some regret I might add. I just don't want to have to keep respeccing my build or paying through the nose to obtain multiple very different types of gear. I don't have time to do all of that, and with what little time I have currently to play I want to be able to enjoy my game to the fullest. Right now that means moving toward the DPS realm. It is the elephant in the room and everyone knows it. Block mitigation was nerfed to its core (0% regeneration) meanwhile other forms of mitigation simply have scaling costs. In other words their punitive measures are significantly less punitive. I really needed to get this off my chest, because it has been bothering me for quite some time in this community.

    I realize there was a time when we had the Dress-&-Shield Tanks, and they were OP for a lot of reasons that I don't want to get into. What I'm talking about is that the game itself needs to be properly balanced so that there is a REAL place for Tanks in all arenas of the game, not just raiding. To be honest Tanking has been pushed out of most of the vet dungeons at this point in large part because people belch out so much dps and have so much mitigation from CP you don't need a tank. Health is an inferior stat that affords far less functionality than Magicka or Stamina. This is not a big mystery to anyone who understands the game. As a community and also the game designers need to rethink this. I gave up being a Tank not out of choice or preference, but simply because it is too annoying to do so. I find it too annoying to have to change my build, pay the fines, change my loadout, then do a few dungeons and reverse it all again so I can go back to pvp. What utter nonsense is that? This game was in large part sold to us with the RvRvR aspect and that is what quite a few of us were excited about, AS WELL AS THE Elder Scrolls theme. I'm in it for both, and I really wish some of you guys would acquiesce and realize that others may have a different point of view. I want better balance for the game.

    Just... NO.

    Every role needs to respec differently when switching from PvE to PvP content. Tank being no exception.

    The disparity is stark. You are spouting nonsense. A healing build requires very minor adjustment for pvp. A DPS build requires very minor adjustment in most cases for pvp. Tanking is not like that. I'm sorry but you are full of it here, and even if you were correct it is just bad game design. The gold sink would be one thing, but the annoying time sink just compounds the issue. You're welcome to your strong convictions, I just feel they are baseless, and I'm certain there are many others who agree.

    Since I am "full of it" and "spouting nonsense" I just might clarify some things here.

    If you can't switch from tanking to DPS by clicking two buttons using [insert your addon here], then you are incapable of playing this MMO.
    What is more likely is that you are just lazy, and want your playstyle to be valid in every aspect of the game.

    You will be better off when you realize the word "tank" signifies a role in group content.

    I have no problems changing from tanking spec to DPS spec in two clicks. Because I realize I can't go around killing mobs in HA Hist Bark + Footman.

    being able to go back and forth from an effective PVE tank to an effective PVP player it's like walking on a tightrope at best
    Don't tank

    "In future content we will probably adjust this model somewhat (The BOP model). It's definitely nice to be able to find a cool item that you don't need and trade it to someone who can't wait to get their hands on it." - Wrobel
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    NBrookus wrote: »
    I was very unhappy with the stam regen nerf. I adapted, but I'm still extremely unhappy with it; it was a
    stupid and done to appease PvP QQ'ers, not to make tanking better. Never once have I heard a PvE tank say, "screw those PvP tanks, we want to be nerfed!" Instead it was PvP that screwed PvE.

    I think your anger is misplaced. Perhaps it should be directed at that vocal minority in PvP who whine anytime they can't kill someone. I'd love to take my tank into PvP, but she stays in PvE where she's nerfed and not much fun to play now, but at least has a point to existing.

    I'd love to see your tank have a purpose in PvP. I gave up on it with mine. I was Stamplar Tanking for a long time. Caltrops worked great as a crowd control and aggro magnet, and I was able to manage the high stamina cost, although I had to be careful and strategic about it. When we saw 0 Regen while blocking though, that ended it for me. Unlike DK and NB, there are many options to gain stamina back apart from heavy attacks/potions/repentance, and some scenarios don't allow you to use those with enough regularity. It became far too niche. I'd considered going Magplar Tank but the problem there that I foresee is that the Templar class itself just has terrible crowd control. Blinding Flashes was already pretty slushy for a lot of pve content, although it was pretty cool in pvp. The Bouncing Fire Rune (forget the name, I haven't used it in some time) is such a small aoe and I found my team would invariably aggro things outside of its range. In pvp it has the same problem as Blazing Spear, in that it has a terrible telegraph. Blazing Spear is also a single target cc, and if they just made it an aoe I could almost stomach its use in that capacity. I'm having fun with the character, I just doesn't see it as fun in the Tank role these days. The other classes just do it better and more comfortably.

    At the core of it all I think they need to put a little more ingenuity into the problem. 0 Regeneration while blocking just doesn't equate to a slowly scaling increase in dodge roll costs, or shield stacking. The latter two options allow you to be mobile. Blocking holds you in place and has a steeper cost. I think they need to rethink the whole system. I'm actually far more survivable right now in 7pc's medium armor, dodge rolling and fighting aggressively, than I was tanking and bubbling. This just doesn't make much sense. I really want to see a better place for Heavy Armor (5+/7) wearing Sword and Shield Knights in Cyrodiil.
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • ThatNeonZebraAgain
    ThatNeonZebraAgain
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    Dubhliam wrote: »
    Dubhliam wrote: »
    One thing I find offensive from the community and I just want to point it out: Why do some of you guys keep throwing PvP Tanks under the bus? I realize that you love your PvE stuff but did it ever occur to you that some people like to do PvE but they also like to PvP as well? By stating that you enjoy the balance of Tanking the way it occurs now, you are essentially saying you are happy that tanking is really only a raiding thing. If that is your point of view you're certainly welcome to it, but I don't see how you feel justified in it. Why should one class/spec be only functional in such a narrow arena? A true tank build is pretty pathetic in doing story content. A true tank build is pretty pathetic right now in pve. No other Spec has to make these kinds of adaptations nor incurs the same kinds of costs. Why do people feel that this is an acceptable balance to the Tank build? I'm all for challenge but there is a reason why many of us gave up our shields, with some regret I might add. I just don't want to have to keep respeccing my build or paying through the nose to obtain multiple very different types of gear. I don't have time to do all of that, and with what little time I have currently to play I want to be able to enjoy my game to the fullest. Right now that means moving toward the DPS realm. It is the elephant in the room and everyone knows it. Block mitigation was nerfed to its core (0% regeneration) meanwhile other forms of mitigation simply have scaling costs. In other words their punitive measures are significantly less punitive. I really needed to get this off my chest, because it has been bothering me for quite some time in this community.

    I realize there was a time when we had the Dress-&-Shield Tanks, and they were OP for a lot of reasons that I don't want to get into. What I'm talking about is that the game itself needs to be properly balanced so that there is a REAL place for Tanks in all arenas of the game, not just raiding. To be honest Tanking has been pushed out of most of the vet dungeons at this point in large part because people belch out so much dps and have so much mitigation from CP you don't need a tank. Health is an inferior stat that affords far less functionality than Magicka or Stamina. This is not a big mystery to anyone who understands the game. As a community and also the game designers need to rethink this. I gave up being a Tank not out of choice or preference, but simply because it is too annoying to do so. I find it too annoying to have to change my build, pay the fines, change my loadout, then do a few dungeons and reverse it all again so I can go back to pvp. What utter nonsense is that? This game was in large part sold to us with the RvRvR aspect and that is what quite a few of us were excited about, AS WELL AS THE Elder Scrolls theme. I'm in it for both, and I really wish some of you guys would acquiesce and realize that others may have a different point of view. I want better balance for the game.

    Just... NO.

    Every role needs to respec differently when switching from PvE to PvP content. Tank being no exception.

    The disparity is stark. You are spouting nonsense. A healing build requires very minor adjustment for pvp. A DPS build requires very minor adjustment in most cases for pvp. Tanking is not like that. I'm sorry but you are full of it here, and even if you were correct it is just bad game design. The gold sink would be one thing, but the annoying time sink just compounds the issue. You're welcome to your strong convictions, I just feel they are baseless, and I'm certain there are many others who agree.

    Since I am "full of it" and "spouting nonsense" I just might clarify some things here.

    If you can't switch from tanking to DPS by clicking two buttons using [insert your addon here], then you are incapable of playing this MMO.
    What is more likely is that you are just lazy, and want your playstyle to be valid in every aspect of the game.

    You will be better off when you realize the word "tank" signifies a role in group content.

    I have no problems changing from tanking spec to DPS spec in two clicks. Because I realize I can't go around killing mobs in HA Hist Bark + Footman.

    being able to go back and forth from an effective PVE tank to an effective PVP player it's like walking on a tightrope at best

    This is my struggle. Even as a magicka NB, it is tricky. Coming to a compromise on constellations is by far the hardest part (ability morph choices are second hardest). Before they took out softcaps and added the Champ system though, it was great :(
    Edited by ThatNeonZebraAgain on April 19, 2016 3:37PM
    Gore-of-the-Forest Argonian Nightblade
    Wode Earthrender Breton Dragonknight
    Ceol the Last Baron Redguard Dragonknight
    Wayra High Elf Sorceress
    Erebain Salothran Dark Elf Templar
    Rituals-of-the-Forest Argonian Warden
  • hrothbern
    hrothbern
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    About making a Tank (role) more useful in future raid content a lot has been posted in various posts.

    One of the key factors is speed in practical raiding. Speed is important for the Leaderboard Weeklies. And speed is also important for simple convenience of grinding.
    And speed is unfortunately affecting the usefulness of a Tank.

    My suggestion here is about making tanks more usefull for older raids that are already in the phase of speed DPS melting, where Tanks are not really needed anymore. And 3xDPS + Healer or even 4xDPS can do the job faster.

    The basic idea is that a S&B HA Tank can generate a short duration Damage buff for his Group.

    Add to the 5th passive of the S&B line Battlefield Mobility:

    "Your fully charged Heavy Attack, on a by you taunted Boss Monster, grants all Group players "Major Slayer", causing attacks to deal 10% more Damage to that Boss Monster". The duration is 1 second per piece of Heavy Armor equiped".

    This 10% Group DPS buff will now make the normal taunting Heavy Armor Tank also useful in the DPS race in older raids, when he times his fully charged Heavy Attack correctly between the attacks of the Boss.

    The 10% and typical 5 seconds duration are just draft values.
    To deliver a satisfactory DPS contribution for a Tank in a 4 player Pledge the 10% could perhaps better be 15%. But for a raid that 15% seems somewhat high, although this can also lowered by decreasing the duration somewhat, assuming it will in general be more difficult to reach 100% uptime against a Trial Boss.

    Perhaps something along the lines of this suggestion can secure the position of a Tank, and it could also help new Tanks to learn straight away to get away from behind their Blocking to get into a more active role, and contribute to the Group DPS.





    Edited by hrothbern on April 19, 2016 7:10PM
    "I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    hrothbern wrote: »
    About making a Tank (role) more useful in future raid content a lot has been posted in various posts.

    One of the key factors is speed in practical raiding. Speed is important for the Leaderboard Weeklies. And speed is also important for simple convenience of grinding.
    And speed is unfortunately affecting the usefulness of a Tank.

    My suggestion here is about making tanks more usefull for older raids that are already in the phase of speed DPS melting, where Tanks are not really needed anymore. And 3xDPS + Healer or even 4xDPS can do the job faster.

    The basic idea is that a S&B HA Tank can generate a short duration Damage buff for his Group.

    Add to the 5th passive of the S&B line Battlefield Mobility:

    "Your fully charged Heavy Attack, on a by you taunted Boss Monster, grants all Group players "Major Slayer", causing attacks to deal 10% more Damage to that Boss Monster". The duration is 1 second per piece of Heavy Armor equiped".

    This 10% Group DPS buff will now make the normal taunting Heavy Armor Tank also useful in the DPS race in older raids, when he times his fully charged Heavy Attack correctly.

    The 10% and typical 5 seconds duration are just draft values.
    To deliver a satisfactory DPS contribution for a Tank in a 4 player Pledge the 10% could perhaps better be 15%. But for a raid that 15% seems somewhat high, although this can also lowered by decreasing the duration somewhat, assuming it will in general be more difficult to reach 100% uptime against a Trial Boss.

    Perhaps something along the lines of this suggestion can secure the position of a Tank, and it could also help new Tanks to learn straight away to get away from behind their Blocking to get into a more active role, and contribute to the Group DPS.





    Pretty cool idea @hrothbern .
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
  • hrothbern
    hrothbern
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    At the PAX ZOS clarified the DB Poison potions:
    They are based on the Alchemy ingredients. Looking at the debuffs possible with Alchemy, there are many combinations fitting to DPS.
    There are also "slow", debuff Physical or Spell Resist (probably with Major Fracture or Major Breach), Ravage Health, debuff Weapon and Spell Power...

    I wonder..... "what can a Tank slot as DB Poison, that will be usefull against a Boss ???

    Debuff Physical and Spell Resist with Major Fracture/Breach are already in the rotations.

    Will the poison debuffs possible of Weapon and Spell Power apply to a Boss ???
    That would lower the damage of the Boss to group members and be usefull.

    If not, only the DPS benefit from DB poisons with faster killing normal adds.
    And that will only shift the raid groups more to 3xDPS + a Healer or another DPS

    EDIT:

    Question boils down to whether the following Poison, or the similar Spell Poison, would also affect a Boss:
    k4Z7H8X.jpg?1

    BTW the word Armor in this Poison should have been replaced by Physical Resistance.

    Edited by hrothbern on April 26, 2016 7:47AM
    "I still do not understand why I followed the advice of Captain Rana to bring the villagers of Bleakrock into safety. We should have fought for our village and not have backed down, with our tail between our legs. Now my home village is in shambles, the houses burning, the invaders feasting.I swear every day to Shor that after Molag Bal has been defeated, I will hunt down the invaders and restore peace in Bleakrock and drink my mead with my friends at the market place".PC-EU
  • Dubhliam
    Dubhliam
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Bracing:
    Renamed this passive ability to Wrath.
    Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 10/20 for 6 seconds after taking damage at Ranks I/II respectively, stacking up to 10 times.

    This was the most stupid idea ever.
    I don't know who thought of this, but they deserve a medal.

    Instead of making heavy armor more tanky, they made them into DPS wannabes.

    Which in turn will make new players build their tanks as off-tanks, focusing on DPS.
    Which in turn will result in EVEN MORE nerf threads because those off-tank builds won't cope with difficult boss mechanics, because HA lost the only good passive it had.

    The Elder Scrolls Online - Tanks Unwanted
    >>>Detailed Justice System Concept thread<<<
  • vladimilianoub17_ESO1
    vladimilianoub17_ESO1
    ✭✭✭✭
    Dubhliam wrote: »
    Bracing:
    Renamed this passive ability to Wrath.
    Redesigned this passive ability so it now increases your Weapon and Spell Damage by 10/20 for 6 seconds after taking damage at Ranks I/II respectively, stacking up to 10 times.

    This was the most stupid idea ever.
    I don't know who thought of this, but they deserve a medal.

    Instead of making heavy armor more tanky, they made them into DPS wannabes.

    Which in turn will make new players build their tanks as off-tanks, focusing on DPS.
    Which in turn will result in EVEN MORE nerf threads because those off-tank builds won't cope with difficult boss mechanics, because HA lost the only good passive it had.

    The Elder Scrolls Online - Tanks Unwanted

    lol

    The Elder Scrolls Online - The Doom of the Trinity

    The Elder Scrolls Online - Bad Decisions

    The Elder Scrolls Online - We go the Guild Wars 2 Route Because Bad Decisions Doomed the Trinity

    Lol sorry but I need to blow some steam after all this mess.

  • Personofsecrets
    Personofsecrets
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    " 2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?"

    @Wrobel , do you see anyone in here wanting a nerf to bracing?
    Don't tank

    "In future content we will probably adjust this model somewhat (The BOP model). It's definitely nice to be able to find a cool item that you don't need and trade it to someone who can't wait to get their hands on it." - Wrobel
  • dodgehopper_ESO
    dodgehopper_ESO
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭
    " 2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?"

    @Wrobel , do you see anyone in here wanting a nerf to bracing?

    @Personofsecrets - The interesting thing for me is that it is seeming that Medium Armor + Shuffle/Mirage + Dodging will generally be better than blocking in most circumstances, apart from PvE scenarios where you need to tank, or in the moments you need to block a meteor or RD in pvp. I'm actually personally thinking some of the new trait stones on Medium will be better for tanking. I haven't sat down and mucked with the mathematics on it, and honestly I don't have the access or time to really do it right now, but is my cursory assessment here wrong?
    US/AD - Dodge Hopper - Vet Imperial Templar | US/AD - Goj-ei-Raj - Vet Argonian Nightblade
    US/AD - Arondonimo - Vet Altmer Sorcerer | US/AD - Azumarax - Vet Dunmer Dragon Knight
    US/AD - Barkan al-Sheharesh - Vet Redguard Dragon Knight | US/AD - Aelus Vortavoriil - Vet Altmer Templar
    US/AD - Shirari Qa'Dar - Vet Khajiit Nightblade | US/AD - Ndvari Mzunchvolenthumz - Vet Bosmer Nightblade
    US/EP - Yngmar - Vet Nord Dragon Knight | US/EP - Reloth Ur Fyr - Vet Dunmer Sorcerer
    US/DC - Muiredeach - Vet Breton Sorcerer | US/DC - Nachtrabe - Vet Orc Nightblade
    EU/DC - Dragol gro-Unglak - Vet Orc Dragon Knight | EU/DC - Targan al-Barkan - Vet Redguard Templar
    EU/DC - Wuthmir - Vet Nord Sorcerer | EU/DC - Kosh Ragotoro - Vet Khajiit Nightblade
    <And plenty more>
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