Official Tanking Feedback Thread

ThatNeonZebraAgain

jaburns wrote: »

I've previously posted on this thread- but I wanted to touch base about another improvement:

Make the last passive of Sword and Shield more like the Dual Wield passive "Twin Blade and Blunt".

Currently, there is no difference between equipping a Shield with a Mace/Sword/Axe/Dagger. There's no reason to choose one over the other other than aesthetic choice.

Why is there no bonus to equipping an Axe and Shield over a Mace and Shield? It'd be nice if the Axe caused a bleed effect or the Mace ignored armor. Sword and Shield could increase spell/weapon damage slightly and a Dagger and Shield could increase critical damage.

Just spit-balling here... but I thought it should be addressed. Cheers, mate.

Agreed. 2h has it too. Only problem might be in PvP where people wouldn't be sacrificing much damage (especially if HA gets some kind of buff) to get a lot more mitigation.

spoqster

I'd like to add another argument from a more fundamental perspective. It seems that many people think that tanks should not be able to dish out damage. However, if you think of movie characters, for example, the characters in heavy armor are often big and very strong and dish out a lot of damage - when they hit.

From this stems an intuition that the main difference between a heavy and a medium character should be the agility and attack speed. A perfect example for this difference is the fight between the Viper and the Mountain in A Game of Thrones. Both dish out damage, the Viper through frequent hits and the Mountain through few very strong hits. Both can handle damage, the Viper by evading it, the Mountain by tanking it.

ESO even already incorporates these elements in principle (weapon traits and armor passives), but sadly some of these factors are negligible when it comes to dps, such as the Well Fitted or Weighted traits, whereas others are fundamental for high damage, such as the Agility passive.

So in short it would be much more intuitive if a tank character could dish out massive amounts of damage, and the game instead offered other ways of balancing the playstyles than simply gimping damage on tanks.

For example it would be great if a high damage heavy armor build would be viable without making it over powered.

A few basic ideas how that could be done: Move the weapon damage bonus to heavy armor, but give medium armor major buffs to attack speed and roll dodge (possibly even a roll dodge malus for heavy). That way MA and HA would be balanced in PvP as MA hits lighter but more often and heavy hits harder but less often, but both with the same dps. HA can tank much more damage but is slower and virtually can't roll dodge whereas MA will evade more damage, but will suffer more when hit.

Magicka users are already in a good spot as they have damage shields and can reserve the stamina pool for blocking and dodging. My ideal playstyle segmentation would allow for all styles to have equal damage mitigation (either through shields, evasion or resistance), and for all styles to have equal dps.

Now people will cry "that would make tanks op in pve as they can absorb and dish out". The truth is that tanking (taunting, blocking, utility) costs time, which lowers dps. So a high dps heavy armor character couldn't do high dps while tanking. The main difference for a high dps HA character is that he could do dps while no tank is required (for specific bosses or trash groups), making the run more fun for a tank and allowing him to offer more utility for the group.

spoqster

spoqster wrote: »

I'd like to add another argument from a more fundamental perspective. It seems that many people think that tanks should not be able to dish out damage. However, if you think of movie characters, for example, the characters in heavy armor are often big and very strong and dish out a lot of damage - when they hit.

From this stems an intuition that the main difference between a heavy and a medium character should be the agility and attack speed. A perfect example for this difference is the fight between the Viper and the Mountain in A Game of Thrones. Both dish out damage, the Viper through frequent hits and the Mountain through few very strong hits. Both can handle damage, the Viper by evading it, the Mountain by tanking it.

ESO even already incorporates these elements in principle (weapon traits and armor passives), but sadly some of these factors are negligible when it comes to dps, such as the Well Fitted or Weighted traits, whereas others are fundamental for high damage, such as the Agility passive.

So in short it would be much more intuitive if a tank character could dish out massive amounts of damage, and the game instead offered other ways of balancing the playstyles than simply gimping damage on tanks.

For example it would be great if a high damage heavy armor build would be viable without making it over powered.

A few basic ideas how that could be done: Move the weapon damage bonus to heavy armor, but give medium armor major buffs to attack speed and roll dodge (possibly even a roll dodge malus for heavy). That way MA and HA would be balanced in PvP as MA hits lighter but more often and heavy hits harder but less often, but both with the same dps. HA can tank much more damage but is slower and virtually can't roll dodge whereas MA will evade more damage, but will suffer more when hit.

Magicka users are already in a good spot as they have damage shields and can reserve the stamina pool for blocking and dodging. My ideal playstyle segmentation would allow for all styles to have equal damage mitigation (either through shields, evasion or resistance), and for all styles to have equal dps.

Now people will cry "that would make tanks op in pve as they can absorb and dish out". The truth is that tanking (taunting, blocking, utility) costs time, which lowers dps. So a high dps heavy armor character couldn't do high dps while tanking. The main difference for a high dps HA character is that he could do dps while no tank is required (for specific bosses or trash groups), making the run more fun for a tank and allowing him to offer more utility for the group.

Just to add to an example: In Skyrim, if you encountered a heavy armored opponent, you had a feeling of "oh crap", because you knew that it would be a lot of work to get him down. The HA opponents in Skyrim hit really hard, but it wasn't unbalanced, because you could easily avoid the slow swings.

I'd like for Heavy Armor to feel the same way in ESO, such that the sight of HA commands a feeling of respect and authority. (Currently players get this feeling from seeing a shield stacking sorc, not from the sight of heavy armor.)

And as mentioned before this can be balanced in PvP via the higher mobility of non-HA characters and in PvE through the HA character not focusing on dps because he has other duties in the group.

Krision

Make the Nord the Best tank pls

Health regen is the worst stat in the game. Can you please rework some passives that try to make this one better, like the DK passives that increase health regen? This is really a horrible stat

Yes, nord should shine in health regeneration

RobbaYaga

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Calling all Tanks!

Please make sure you mention if you primarily play on console or PC.
I am a PC player.

1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?

I enjoy that Tanking is never quite the same. Unlike when I DPS (or heal) and can button weave (or just button spam), Tanking requires thought, resource management and paying attention to what the bad guys are doing.

2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?

PvP - there is no reason to Tank in PvP and that's a shame. HA is weak, there is no way to aggro players and in PvP, DPS is king.

3. What is your favorite encounter to tank?

The Vet Imperial City Prison Overfiend. This guy hits so hard that blocking is a must and therefore resource management is a must, which is made even more challenging because the Healer is usually trying to help the DPS burn down the insidious mobs. He's never "easy" for me, no matter how many times I've faced him.

4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?

Valkyn Skoria, which is sad because he would likely be one of my favorites except there is a very weird lag in this final battle that causes his attacks to hit "early." Consequently, the normal time between seeing the attack coming and being able to block is not there and I spend entirely too much time knocked down in the lava if I'm not careful.

5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favorite?

Of the tools meant for tanking, Pierce Armor because it makes the bad guys much more squishy. In general, however, Shuffle just rocks. 20% of the time, it's a "Get out of Jail Free" card for big hits, resource management or when I just eff up.

6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?

All Tank related skills for PvP need improvement as has been stated many times, but for PvE, Heavy Armor is still a weak point. I only recently recognized how bad HA is when I was in a group, intending to be the DPS and instead was thrust into the role of Tank. In Medium Armor I did not notice that I felt particular stressed by the Vet content. Maybe I just had a great group or Healer or Stamina DKs are tough, but it seems like not being in HA should have made me cry while Tanking.

dodgehopper_ESO

Krision wrote: »

Make the Nord the Best tank pls

Health regen is the worst stat in the game. Can you please rework some passives that try to make this one better, like the DK passives that increase health regen? This is really a horrible stat

Yes, nord should shine in health regeneration

If we are sticking to traditional Elder Scrolls theme, no Nord should not shine at regeneration. Nord should be extremely tough, and hard to injure. Argonian should be the one with the amazing health regeneration. That's not the way they've designed the game, but either way Argonian stats are only built for tanking as well.

dodgehopper_ESO

Dubhliam wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

... standing in fire and laughing at it is fun. Provided your healer has your back ...

I agree with everything else you said, but this is not something I agree with.
This is poor tanking and a pure indicator that the difficulty of current veteran dungeons is broken.

Also, I must point out that i very much like the no-stam recovery while blocking and would prefer to keep it that way.

Granting stamina recovery to tanks would just push both the tank role and the healing role into more DPS builds.
This should be avoided at all cost.

Instead, the devs should focus on improving HA passives and providing all classes with a skill for tanking resource management.
DKs have Helping Hands and Battle Roar passives that are doing the job fine as is.
NBs should get an improvement in the Leeching Strikes morph, to grant resource and health each time that player takes damage.
Sorcs should get an improvement in the Dark Deal morph. Perhaps make it an instant buff that grants health instantly and X stamina for each blocked attack.
Temps should get a reworked Radiant Aura morph, also dedicated to tanking. Make it that this morph grants the player a fixed amount of X stam recovery while blocking.

Also, to address the real problem of tanking in ESO: dps inflation.
I heard they might de-correlate resources with damage and I fully support that idea. Somebody mentioned that max magicka should still scale for healing, so that healers don't stack the same stats as dds, making them just another off-heal damage dealers in the group.

Alternatively, they could create a +Healing stat for sets, enchantments, and equipment. That would solve the problem and I've seen plenty of other games do this. At that point it becomes a choice between Health and Damage in terms of what you slot. Healers who play nightblades might also have to get creative since a lot of their heals are damage based, and therefore a Nightblade healer might actually split pools (This reminds me of the Assault Rifle healer in TSW). Both builds would probably want to build for Crits as well. All in all I believe that just adding in a +Healing stat would be the better call.

Dubhliam

dodgehopper_ESO wrote: »

Dubhliam wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

... standing in fire and laughing at it is fun. Provided your healer has your back ...

I agree with everything else you said, but this is not something I agree with.
This is poor tanking and a pure indicator that the difficulty of current veteran dungeons is broken.

Also, I must point out that i very much like the no-stam recovery while blocking and would prefer to keep it that way.

Granting stamina recovery to tanks would just push both the tank role and the healing role into more DPS builds.
This should be avoided at all cost.

Instead, the devs should focus on improving HA passives and providing all classes with a skill for tanking resource management.
DKs have Helping Hands and Battle Roar passives that are doing the job fine as is.
NBs should get an improvement in the Leeching Strikes morph, to grant resource and health each time that player takes damage.
Sorcs should get an improvement in the Dark Deal morph. Perhaps make it an instant buff that grants health instantly and X stamina for each blocked attack.
Temps should get a reworked Radiant Aura morph, also dedicated to tanking. Make it that this morph grants the player a fixed amount of X stam recovery while blocking.

Also, to address the real problem of tanking in ESO: dps inflation.
I heard they might de-correlate resources with damage and I fully support that idea. Somebody mentioned that max magicka should still scale for healing, so that healers don't stack the same stats as dds, making them just another off-heal damage dealers in the group.

Alternatively, they could create a +Healing stat for sets, enchantments, and equipment. That would solve the problem and I've seen plenty of other games do this. At that point it becomes a choice between Health and Damage in terms of what you slot. Healers who play nightblades might also have to get creative since a lot of their heals are damage based, and therefore a Nightblade healer might actually split pools (This reminds me of the Assault Rifle healer in TSW). Both builds would probably want to build for Crits as well. All in all I believe that just adding in a +Healing stat would be the better call.

Something like the Healer's Habit set?
Yeah that could work.

Anything that would require players to at least change gear and skills to excel at a certain role in the group.

The only downside I see with that approach is that all the new sets are usually only available through DLCs. While I fully support ZOS earning money from DLCs, this would mean locking a very big chunk of the playerbase from being able to heal effectively.

spoqster wrote: »

... The main difference for a high dps HA character is that he could do dps while no tank is required (for specific bosses or trash groups), making the run more fun for a tank and allowing him to offer more utility for the group.

Some people consider tanking fun, and some don't. If you don't like to play a certain role, simply switch to something that fits your playstyle more.
Also dps =/= utility. Crowd control is.

This thread is focused on PvE aspects of tanking, and the mindset of a dedicated PvE tank should not be: "...tank character could dish out massive amounts of damage..."
If that was the case, people would be running dungeons with 3 tanks and a healer instead of the current 3 dps and a healer.

The "correct" mindset of a tank should be: "I am an unkillable force. Give me your best shot, it won't leave a dent".

In my opinion, a character should be able to do both, but excel at neither or choose to specialize and excel at one specific role.
And this would be achieved by removing the damage calculation from resources or at least cutting the current values to 33%.

spoqster

Dubhliam wrote: »

Some people consider tanking fun, and some don't. If you don't like to play a certain role, simply switch to something that fits your playstyle more.
Also dps =/= utility. Crowd control is.

I love tanking. The problem ist the dps power creep. Outside of boss fights I feel useless as a tank. This makes the runs partly boring.

Utility is everything that helps the group. If the group's dps is so high that they don't need the tank to taunt, CC or do anything else on trash mobs, then the only remaining utility the tank can provide is to help with dps to get the trash group ordeal over with quicker.

NBrookus

spoqster wrote: »

I love tanking. The problem ist the dps power creep. Outside of boss fights I feel useless as a tank. This makes the runs partly boring.

Utility is everything that helps the group. If the group's dps is so high that they don't need the tank to taunt, CC or do anything else on trash mobs, then the only remaining utility the tank can provide is to help with dps to get the trash group ordeal over with quicker.

Yeah, this^. The only thing I can really do during the trash mobs is crowd control and compact the fight down into AoE range, which helps the DPS' burn it all down faster but really just filler for me until the next boss fight.

dodgehopper_ESO

NBrookus wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

I love tanking. The problem ist the dps power creep. Outside of boss fights I feel useless as a tank. This makes the runs partly boring.

Utility is everything that helps the group. If the group's dps is so high that they don't need the tank to taunt, CC or do anything else on trash mobs, then the only remaining utility the tank can provide is to help with dps to get the trash group ordeal over with quicker.

Yeah, this^. The only thing I can really do during the trash mobs is crowd control and compact the fight down into AoE range, which helps the DPS' burn it all down faster but really just filler for me until the next boss fight.

This is precisely why I find tanking as a Templar completely unfulfilling these days. The two cc options a Templar currently has at their disposal is 1) Volcanic Rune and 2) Caltrops. There really isn't any other choice here. Given the cost of Caltrops it just isn't cost effective to throw this around -and- block a lot of heavy attacks. The problem with Volcanic Rune is that it is small and needs to actually hit the targets, requiring a fire time, a 'load time' and final activation time. Your friends can very easily pull the mobs away before Volcanic Rune does its thing. Neither skill even when activated are very good at CC when compared to the likes of Encase, Talons, Cinders, etc. This issue of CC is one of my biggest complaints about Tanking right now, and why the Stamina Regeneration nerf is so frustrating. For the life of me I can't discern what was so overpowered about being able to Caltrop + Block + Ransack with occassional magical utility.

Iqwerty

First things first: I play an Orc Templar Tank (vr16, 320+ cp), PC, EU and a Redguard NB DD. This probably already explains some of my points.

1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
Many good things have been mentioned above. Tanking in eso is fun when you can control the “flow of battle”, i.e. control crowds, influence player movement and tank challenging bosses. For me, having the feeling that I am an indispensable element of a group is most rewarding. In short: tanking is fun, if you have the feeling that you’re an essential part of a joint effort.

Having had a second thought, I even think that crowd and movement control is the most fun thing to do because it adds an accentedly strategic element to tanking.

2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?
I particularly dislike that I don’t have a role in PvP. Actually, I do switch to being a rather horrible healer or focus on interrupting/ stunning enemies. Reason is that I lack damage output and that I don’t have tools at my disposal to force players to attack me/ control their movement in any other way. Another reason is that I don’t want to completely reconfigure my PvE toon each time I enter Cyrodiil just because he’s not competitive.

Another thing I dislike is that Templar tanks don’t have appropriate means at their disposal for crowd control. Tanking big mobs is a bit of a pain in the ass, if you can’t pull them together or pin them down. I would not want to see an aoe taunt here but rather means to pull or root. Stamina sustain is also quite a problem – though less so with a Templar toon because Repentance does its job as long as crowds are around.

3. What is your favourite encounter to tank?
Trials and especially veteran Hel Ra are quite fun. I also like the Craglorn content and some of the pledges.

4. What is your least favourite encounter to tank?
Any encounter where there is little reason for a group to take aboard a tank because it’s more efficient to rely on high dps. PvP sucks as well as a Templar tank because you’re forced to play in a non-tanky manner.

5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favourite?
Difficult to say but I think as a Templar tank I probably lack the most fun tool, i.e. proper crowd control. I really feel that a nice crowd control tool would add to the “tank-experience”. Otherwise, pierce armour.

6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
Armour based damage mitigation really seems to be an issue. I don’t even think that heavy armour provides too little mitigation but that medium and light armour, under certain circumstances, provide too much. My suggestion would be to replace the existing mitigation hard cap with a hard capped damage mitigation based on the respective armour class.

If a character wears …
5 or more pieces of heavy armour, damage mitigation (excluding block) is hard capped at 50%
5 or more pieces of medium armour, damage mitigation (excluding block) is hard capped at 37.5%
5 or more pieces of light armour, damage mitigation (excluding block) is hard capped at 25%
This way it would be possible to circumvent the hard cap but only if a player trades in armour related passive skills for it + cp-related armour buffs wouldn’t work as well. Obviously this approach requires some more fine-tuning but I think it could be a viable way to go.

Shield stacking mages would still be an issue then but how about making every tool that shields you from damage drain your resources? If blocking prevents you from recovering stamina, casting a damage shield or activating mist/ shadow-like skills to avoid damage should reduce your resource recovery rate (i.e. reduced magicka and stamina recovery) as well. Thus, reducing incoming damage would be more of a bargain for each and every role and class. You would have to trade in reduced incoming damage for reduced output. Your choice and not just a drag on tanks then.

Furthermore, I suggest improving the constitution passive to make it having more of an effect on stamina sustain. Plus, the Black Rose set would get a competitive option for tanking as well, i.e. this move could add to tanking gear variety as well. There’ve already been made a few good comments on that so I won’t elaborate on it.

In my view, the Templar class could also benefit from a crowd control skill or you prop up the webs in the undaunted skill line. This way they are accessible for all classes.

Finally, I’d really love to see some form of PvP taunt. I just don’t feel it’s fair to prevent tanks from using one of their main tools in PvP. There were some very smart remarks about that above. A taunt that works on players (like reverse flee) but where players can break free from seems to be a promising idea.

Hopefully I could contribute to this interesting debate.
Cheers

dodgehopper_ESO

Iqwerty wrote: »

First things first: I play an Orc Templar Tank (vr16, 320+ cp), PC, EU and a Redguard NB DD. This probably already explains some of my points.

1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
Many good things have been mentioned above. Tanking in eso is fun when you can control the “flow of battle”, i.e. control crowds, influence player movement and tank challenging bosses. For me, having the feeling that I am an indispensable element of a group is most rewarding. In short: tanking is fun, if you have the feeling that you’re an essential part of a joint effort.

Having had a second thought, I even think that crowd and movement control is the most fun thing to do because it adds an accentedly strategic element to tanking.

2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?
I particularly dislike that I don’t have a role in PvP. Actually, I do switch to being a rather horrible healer or focus on interrupting/ stunning enemies. Reason is that I lack damage output and that I don’t have tools at my disposal to force players to attack me/ control their movement in any other way. Another reason is that I don’t want to completely reconfigure my PvE toon each time I enter Cyrodiil just because he’s not competitive.

Another thing I dislike is that Templar tanks don’t have appropriate means at their disposal for crowd control. Tanking big mobs is a bit of a pain in the ass, if you can’t pull them together or pin them down. I would not want to see an aoe taunt here but rather means to pull or root. Stamina sustain is also quite a problem – though less so with a Templar toon because Repentance does its job as long as crowds are around.

3. What is your favourite encounter to tank?
Trials and especially veteran Hel Ra are quite fun. I also like the Craglorn content and some of the pledges.

4. What is your least favourite encounter to tank?
Any encounter where there is little reason for a group to take aboard a tank because it’s more efficient to rely on high dps. PvP sucks as well as a Templar tank because you’re forced to play in a non-tanky manner.

5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favourite?
Difficult to say but I think as a Templar tank I probably lack the most fun tool, i.e. proper crowd control. I really feel that a nice crowd control tool would add to the “tank-experience”. Otherwise, pierce armour.

6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
Armour based damage mitigation really seems to be an issue. I don’t even think that heavy armour provides too little mitigation but that medium and light armour, under certain circumstances, provide too much. My suggestion would be to replace the existing mitigation hard cap with a hard capped damage mitigation based on the respective armour class.

If a character wears …
5 or more pieces of heavy armour, damage mitigation (excluding block) is hard capped at 50%
5 or more pieces of medium armour, damage mitigation (excluding block) is hard capped at 37.5%
5 or more pieces of light armour, damage mitigation (excluding block) is hard capped at 25%
This way it would be possible to circumvent the hard cap but only if a player trades in armour related passive skills for it + cp-related armour buffs wouldn’t work as well. Obviously this approach requires some more fine-tuning but I think it could be a viable way to go.

Shield stacking mages would still be an issue then but how about making every tool that shields you from damage drain your resources? If blocking prevents you from recovering stamina, casting a damage shield or activating mist/ shadow-like skills to avoid damage should reduce your resource recovery rate (i.e. reduced magicka and stamina recovery) as well. Thus, reducing incoming damage would be more of a bargain for each and every role and class. You would have to trade in reduced incoming damage for reduced output. Your choice and not just a drag on tanks then.

Furthermore, I suggest improving the constitution passive to make it having more of an effect on stamina sustain. Plus, the Black Rose set would get a competitive option for tanking as well, i.e. this move could add to tanking gear variety as well. There’ve already been made a few good comments on that so I won’t elaborate on it.

In my view, the Templar class could also benefit from a crowd control skill or you prop up the webs in the undaunted skill line. This way they are accessible for all classes.

Finally, I’d really love to see some form of PvP taunt. I just don’t feel it’s fair to prevent tanks from using one of their main tools in PvP. There were some very smart remarks about that above. A taunt that works on players (like reverse flee) but where players can break free from seems to be a promising idea.

Hopefully I could contribute to this interesting debate.
Cheers

I second a lot of what you are saying with regard to Templar tanks, and how they feel in combat. The lack of any real cc is very noticeable for those who play the tank role (which I do/have done on every class).

kojou

I play on PC.

1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?

Being hard to kill and main factor of success for a fight. Being that last guy who survives and wins the fight when the rest of the group is dead.

3. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?

Bosses that refuse to be taunted. Dungeons that don't require a tank. No stamina regen while blocking.

5. What is your favorite encounter to tank?

Final fight in Dragon Star Arena.

7. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?

The flesh sculpter in ICP.

9. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favorite?

Igneous Shield on DK

11. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?

Inner Rage costs too much for what it does. Pressing the synergy is a DPS loss.


On a further note...

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/252053/shortage-of-tanks-in-tamriel/p1

Taryf

Platform: PS4

---

1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?

That feel when You die last at fail.
That feel when You miss block but Boss hardly scratch You with attack that 1-Hit-KO anybody else.
That little smile when Boss put "red circle" and others run in panic, but You can stay and do your job.

2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?

That Tank is almost no really need in dungeons.
Good 3xDPS and Hybryd Healer/DPS can do (almost?) everything faster than classic Tank+Healer+2xDPS group.

3. What is your favorite encounter to tank?

(random order)
High Kinlord Rilis in Veteran Banished Cells - Keep adds alive
The Planar Inhibitor with THIS strategy
Fire Maw in Veteran Banished Cells - Stay in fire and laugh at vampire close range DPS
Zombie Boss in Veteran Imperial City Prison - becouse he hits like hell

4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?

Engine Guardian, becouse without any DPS or bow my tactics is only cast buffs/vigor and agro 3 adds.
All "No-Need-Tank" encounter are crap. You make TANK ROLE? Let me play it.

5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favorite?

As DK i love Volatile Armor.
Pierce Armor is also great skill.

6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?

Stamina regen on block -> but only if You got 5 pieces of Heavy Armor.
Change on Caps (rise Cap for HA / Lower Cap for others).
There should be huge diffirence between Heavy, Medium and Light armor.


----

*7. Did You you regret that You dont DPS? Leveling is to hard?

NO! I start to play as Tank as first character. I Know that i want to be tank from first level.
FIRST time i use diffirent weapon than One-Handed and Shield was on Veteran level.
I start to use Light and Medium parts on vr16.
Questing and leveling was easy. Not extra-fast but easy.



Sorry, but my lack of English knowlege blocks me, but i think i wrote what i want.

Forestd16b14_ESO

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/225175/heavy-armor-needs-buffed-already/p1

Look at this ZOS. Please this is what alot of players want in HA and tank changes.

AverageJo3Gam3r

1. I like being the one in control of the tempo of the battle. I like not having an AoE taunt so I have to rely on target selection and crowd control (talons, ash cloud, and chains) to keep enemies off my teams back. I also love being able to take damage. I really feel like a bad man when the healer goes down (stands in red, it's never *my* fault ) and I can taunt the boss, pop magma armor, and rez while taking hits that would fell lesser mortals.
2. I hate any encounter where the boss is untauntable. Planar inhibitor and engine guardian are the worst. And it sucks that one of the best sets for tanking (engine guardian) is locked behind an untankable encounter!
3. Maw of infernal in spindleclutch, ash Titan, the three dragon knights in WGT
4. Anything that is untankable. Planar inhibitor and engine guardian.
5. Talons, chains, DK standard, magma armor (especially with the changes this last patch, bravo in removing the synergy and making the shield a part of the skill!)
6. Heavy armor passives reworked. I'd really like to see constitution buffed or the black rose set to give a greater resource return. 200% or something along those lines.

Taryf

@ZOS_Finn

Are You planing to post somekind of summary of this thread?

Like:

1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?

Most players tells XXXXXX, some also mentioned YYYYY

4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?

90% Tanks dont like XXXX
70% Also YYYY


Etc.

WolfingHour

Taryf wrote: »

@ZOS_Finn

Are You planing to post somekind of summary of this thread?

Like:

1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
Most players tells XXXXXX, some also mentioned YYYYY

4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?
90% Tanks dont like XXXX
70% Also YYYY


Etc.

(Insert sound of crickets here)

slumber_sandb16_ESO

1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
Its active and engaging. I need to rely on my own skill to block in time, positioning, adds etc rather than just standing there watching a threat meter. I like the viceral and brutal close combat that tanks get in ESO.

2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?
I dislike that for the majority of the game tanks arent needed at all and that with enough DPS you can get through anything except raids. Even the maelstrom arena is designed as a DPS race. Tanks need to be more important imo.

3. What is your favorite encounter to tank?
Don't really have a favourite, I like tanking most bosses.

4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?
Any spellcaster type boss or one that requires me to stay at range. I want to be up close and personal not standing in the distance.

5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favorite?
For my Dragonknight it was molten armaments, but since it changed to favour only magicka builds my favourite is probably Ransack. Not only does it have a fitting name for an Orc, it breaks enemy armour, taunts, does good damage AND low stamina cost. I wish more tanking skills were that useful.

6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?

• Resource management
  No stamina regeneration while blocking. This change made no sense in pve since it hasnt actually changed anything, tanks can still permablock, the only difference is that instead of being able to focus on other things we now play resource management simulator trying to keep stamina from depleting. Tanks need better resource management.
  My nightblade for example has excellent resource management due to siphoning strikes but it gets dull having to spam light attacks to be able to maintain blocks. Its not as interesting as it can be.
  My dragonknight has igneous weapons to spam to regain 5% stamina with each use, only i run out of magicka after 2-4 uses then I'm forced to rely on ultimates for resource generation since heavy attacks restore tiny amount of stamina.
  
  What I would like to see is heavy attacks to favour tanks more than anyone, not for damage but for resource recovery. Something like when wearing +5 heavy armour stamina recovery from heavy attacks is massively increased. Dropping my defences to do a long heavy attack needs to be worth it.
  Speaking of igneous weapons and heavy attacks. This skill has good potential to be a stam DK's favourite if it was changed. I wrote a suggestion about it in other threads. Remove the major sorcery buff from igneous weapons, its not needed on both morphs, but keep major brutality. Then add a +20-25% attack speed/charge up speed for heavy attacks(only on the player casting it).
  This way if tanks get better stamina recovery for heavy attacks DK tanks will be able to have an edge in that with faster heavy attacks, living up to the image of DK's being the best at tanking.
  
  
• Bashing
  This is another thing I'd like to see improved and favoured for tanks. More passives that affect bashing. We're the big brutes wrapped in metal slamming a big metal slab into your face and we know how to make it hurt. It should hurt and not just be an interrupt considering the cost. Would give tanks a little bit of extra damage to spice things up.
  
  
• Heavy Armour
  Do I really need to say anything about it? A lot of threads about it already. Heavy armour passives need a major overhaul and major buffing with tanking in focus. I'd like to see the passives each provide extra bonuses if wearing 5 or more heavy armour because when wearing that much heavy armour you give up a LOT of offensive power, the current passives don't come close to making up for it. Going full tanker should provide some extra benefits specifically for tanking since we have low damage and sub-par healing.
  
  
• Resource scaling
  DPS - Go for stamina or magicka, you're set. Massive damage. If magicka also get access to good heals.
  Healer - Go magicka and get the healing, also gain access to magicka DPS skills free of charge.
  Tank - Go full stamina to maintain block. Where's the health focus?
  
  If skills are going to scale off resources then I'd like to see more tanking skills/morphs scaling off health so tanks can focus into health more than stamina/magicka as a tank should.
  
  
• Resistance caps
  Why? DPS have no caps and can reach a silly level of damage dealing, so why are tanks limited in our resistances? To get +30k resistances you need to invest so much into being tanky that you won't do any damage so no issue with balancing. Let me be that unkillable juggernaut.

Its time for tanks to get some serious loving, ZOS. Expectations are high.

Wifeaggro13

DKsUnite wrote: »

1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
Cant taunt all mobs so it makes you think as to who is priority to tank first. Tanks can still get 1 shot by some mechanics if you don't play well.

2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?
How useless you can be in some instances. I know i never run tank in darkshade cavern. In vWGT (i think it's that one) you force the tank to have a dps set up because tanking on one of the boss encounters doesnt work but you never force the DPS or healers to have to change their set ups. If you build for a tank you shouldnt have to have a DPS set up aswell just because of a dungeon mechanic.

3. What is your favorite encounter to tank?
vDSA

4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?
Darkshade Caverns

5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favorite?
Choking talons, cinder storm, heroic slash, chain pull

6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
Guard. Needs alot of work. Too many negatives to run.

In response to your #2 all Tanks are in in ESO is a dps with a taunt. I have trying to get the Dev teams to make tanking a role three months after launch. early end game players like Attorneyatlawl made many videos exposing the imbalance and lack of end game thought to their group content more then 20 months ago. ZOS response was to decrease survivablity and increase DPS lol. Tanking in ESO requires no skill you can sit and hold block and use the taunt or you can DPS and use the taunt. you dont need heavy armor, you dont need to be discerning in pulling, Just run in taunt the Boss and everyone AOE and avoid red puddles. It really comes down to how is your armor glyphed what mundus and what set you are using.My main is a Orc DK. Had i known that Tanking was not actual tanking in ESO but a DPS with a taunt. i would not have put so much energy into this chr. I hardly play anymore because i really do not enjoy DPS roles i always play a tank or a high support class like CC (bard),(enchanter) from other MMO's support roles do not exist in ESO CC is a joke in PVE and 4 man groups do not really allow for hybrid builds. End game here is DPS with a taunt and dedicated healing. extremely rudimentary grouping mechanics and philosophy. I wish this community luck in this thread.

dodgehopper_ESO

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

DKsUnite wrote: »

1. What do you like best about tanking in ESO?
Cant taunt all mobs so it makes you think as to who is priority to tank first. Tanks can still get 1 shot by some mechanics if you don't play well.

2. What do you like least about tanking in ESO?
How useless you can be in some instances. I know i never run tank in darkshade cavern. In vWGT (i think it's that one) you force the tank to have a dps set up because tanking on one of the boss encounters doesnt work but you never force the DPS or healers to have to change their set ups. If you build for a tank you shouldnt have to have a DPS set up aswell just because of a dungeon mechanic.

3. What is your favorite encounter to tank?
vDSA

4. What is your least favorite encounter to tank?
Darkshade Caverns

5. Of the tools you have for tanking, which is your favorite?
Choking talons, cinder storm, heroic slash, chain pull

6. Of the tools you have for tanking, which would you like to see improved the most?
Guard. Needs alot of work. Too many negatives to run.

In response to your #2 all Tanks are in in ESO is a dps with a taunt. I have trying to get the Dev teams to make tanking a role three months after launch. early end game players like Attorneyatlawl made many videos exposing the imbalance and lack of end game thought to their group content more then 20 months ago. ZOS response was to decrease survivablity and increase DPS lol. Tanking in ESO requires no skill you can sit and hold block and use the taunt or you can DPS and use the taunt. you dont need heavy armor, you dont need to be discerning in pulling, Just run in taunt the Boss and everyone AOE and avoid red puddles. It really comes down to how is your armor glyphed what mundus and what set you are using.My main is a Orc DK. Had i known that Tanking was not actual tanking in ESO but a DPS with a taunt. i would not have put so much energy into this chr. I hardly play anymore because i really do not enjoy DPS roles i always play a tank or a high support class like CC (bard),(enchanter) from other MMO's support roles do not exist in ESO CC is a joke in PVE and 4 man groups do not really allow for hybrid builds. End game here is DPS with a taunt and dedicated healing. extremely rudimentary grouping mechanics and philosophy. I wish this community luck in this thread.

You highlight one of the main reasons tanking drew to me in MMO's. My first MMO was City of Heroes, and my two favored classes were Tank and Controller (or Brute and Dominator for the Villain side). The reason I liked these classes was because they were about battlefield control. Unlike the DPS classes they were about beating your opponent by attrition, and denying them the opportunity to utilize their damage dealing abilities. Even in PVP this worked with Tanks (albeit much better earlier in the game). In ESO I'm just not seeing that anymore. I've got no problem with everyone to some extent being a part of DPS, but I'd like to see mitigation and crowd control become a lot more meaningful. If they're going to scale DPS up with Magic/Stamina its blatantly obvious that mitigation should properly scale up with health. There needs to be better cc options available to players as well, something I've noticed is really wrong with the Templar class for a long time. That's all I really want to say on this issue. I don't want to permanently block, but I do think the way blocking works right now punishes tanks and isn't particularly fun.

Kublakan

i used to tank with a DK, one hand shield and two hands on the second bars.

But now I admit im at a lost with tanking. A man in robe sinks more damage compared to one in heavy armor. I thought DK was the natural choice for tanking, but it seems the vision of the devs is different. It looks like all classes can tank. Having a shield up is not much of a gain. Better spaming heals or damage shield.

Im an old fashion gamer who cant make sens of this Jack of all trades kind of classes, where heavy armor is useless compared to light and medium armor. Where using a shield up prevent one of your most important resource to regen. Timing attack is out of question when youre hit every half a second by several foes at a time.

The DK is still a viable class, even after having been nerfed so many times. But not in full health, wearing heavy armor a shield up. It way better in a stamina build, doing good dps and having a balanced survivability.

Looks like this role is only usefull in trial now.

CP5

@ZOS_Finn, with today's patch nerfing Akatosh's Blessed Armor (a set that greatly helps tanks do something other than hide behind block when facing one hit kill fights), what is the design teams vision of what gear tanks should have? Tanks health and armor does little when mobs will kill you in a single hit regardless of these values, and this set gave players an engaging option to remove one enemy from the fight for 50% of the time, allowing them to take more action and engage in fights. Right now tank gear options are limited, to say the least, and with a lot of their sets incentivizing being at low health (something you can't really do all that much) what is the plan for the future?

Personofsecrets

Yea, what do you all think about the Akatosh Scales nerf? That was quite a heavy handed change imo. I understand why it happened, but it just seems unnecessary.

dodgehopper_ESO

Personofsecrets wrote: »

Yea, what do you all think about the Akatosh Scales nerf? That was quite a heavy handed change imo. I understand why it happened, but it just seems unnecessary.

Considering they hate miss chance, and the blind effect, I suspect that's what happened. IT seems to have popped up when you made that thread about your tank setup using old gear (unintended consequence). They hated the blind effect so much they gutted cc on the Templar class. I actually kind of expected this @Personofsecrets

Personofsecrets

Yea, idg why they hate blind...

Bfish22090

there are no good out of the box sets that tanks can use anymore

hrothbern

Because this thread is seen by so many Tanks
I would like to ask you all to share your opinion on what kind of possible new Tank set you would like to have.

The cross link is:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/255362/for-the-new-tanking-set-which-2-3-4-bonus-do-you-not-want#latest

The poll question:
For the new tanking set... which 2,3,4 bonus do you not want ?


When I saw the Lunar Bastion set of the TG DLC, my first thought was: hey... looks great !
And then I saw the 2 piece bonus "Adds 4% Healing Taken".... and that was kind of disappointing.
I would have been much happier if Lunar Bastion would for example have been:
2 pcs: 1935 Spell Resistance
3 pcs: 1935 Physical Resistance
4 pcs: Minor Aegis for 5% less damage from Bossmonsters
5 pcs: When you use a synergy you create a lunar blessing for 10 seconds that grants a 2315 Damage Shield to nearby allies every 2 seconds.

Perhaps I am the only one with that opinion...
But if not, perhaps we can give @ZOS_Finn also our joined feedback what we prefer as 2,3,4 piece bonusses for a good tanking set

Woeler

hrothbern wrote: »

Because this thread is seen by so many Tanks
I would like to ask you all to share your opinion on what kind of possible new Tank set you would like to have.

The cross link is:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/255362/for-the-new-tanking-set-which-2-3-4-bonus-do-you-not-want#latest

The poll question:
For the new tanking set... which 2,3,4 bonus do you not want ?


When I saw the Lunar Bastion set of the TG DLC, my first thought was: hey... looks great !
And then I saw the 2 piece bonus "Adds 4% Healing Taken".... and that was kind of disappointing.
I would have been much happier if Lunar Bastion would for example have been:
2 pcs: 1935 Spell Resistance
3 pcs: 1935 Physical Resistance
4 pcs: Minor Aegis for 5% less damage from Bossmonsters
5 pcs: When you use a synergy you create a lunar blessing for 10 seconds that grants a 2315 Damage Shield to nearby allies every 2 seconds.

Perhaps I am the only one with that opinion...
But if not, perhaps we can give @ZOS_Finn also our joined feedback what we prefer as 2,3,4 piece bonusses for a good tanking set

Aegis should stay on 3 piece. Jewellery.