Official Feedback Thread for Templars

DHale

blabafat wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Did some quick testing about champion passives and jab damage, here is the result.

• Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%)
  Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2181
  Burning Light dmg is 2866

• Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%) + Tharmaturge 30 points (10.8%)
  Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2521
  Burning Light is 3129

As a result, as you can see we still have to spread cp into two different trees in order to buff our main dmg ability.
I have not yet tested this in pvp vs players but i believe damage of sweeps can also be reduced by both magic damage and dot dmg reduction passives in red trees as it's already in live since 1.6 released. This should be fixed already.

/gonna test with stamina morph as well.
/same with biting jabs.

@Soris that's actually a buff. It allows us to essentially double the increase in damage from CP than last patch (there are 2 trees that affect jabs now)

Obviously, we only have 501 CP. However, once the CP cap is raised to 600 something, we'll be able to increase our jab damage by 25% and 25%

Hi blab, why would elemental expert have any effect on flare or sweeps it is magic damage, is it not? Not sure why we need to spec both trees. Not sure why burning light would be impacted as well. It's not supposed to be fire.

Thal

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

I think we need to admit that you can't balance PvE and PvP.

It's time we just surgically seperate the two. All abilities should be seperate depending on whether you are in a PvP or PvE area. Make them similar to leveling up an offensive ability in PvP levels up a similarly offensive ability in PvE.

Would probably need skill set saves, but add-ons do that so how hard could it be.

When balancing needs to happen you can focus on adjusting only what needs to be fixed, instead of trying to envision unintended consequences on the other side.

QFT - I mentioned something similar a few weeks ago in another Templar thread.

Not sure why people QQ over this... unless you also hate the scientific method of limiting variables and testing.

Something to be additive to the conversation - I feel like increasingly the game is losing sight of what it means to be a certain class. What I mean by this is, a Magplar should be fantastic at 1-2 things, and okay at 1-2 things, same for a Stamplar, and all of the other iterations of each class.

I feel like some of the classes are now fantastic at 3-4 things while Magplar is okay at 4 and Stamplar is meh at 4.

It is what it is - I feel like a LOT could be fixed with the runes turning into a buff like Critical Surge (for example), which does WAY more and also hits people with lightning. If that gave mobility and stuck to you, I'd feel a lot better. Also Balanced Warrior needs spell damage for class balance against similar passives. Should be called "Imbalanced Warrior"

bowmanz607

Zheg wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

The issue is when you have 8 people single targeting one guy that is getting BOL spammed from a templar and the heals outpacing the dps. This is especially true when fighting a templar with BOL. you end up with a raid hammering on one guy spamming bol. One spammable heal should not outheal a group hammering on one guy. that is too much.

Only nuub raids have that problem, as all other (broad majority) use heal-debuffs in PvP and the necessary skills against block+armor spec's (which can't be blocked), before focusing damage.

I do not want to read such comments, that a single player is able to outheal 20 attackers related to a specific defensive build. If you do not know how to combat such builds, you should not post about it but learn how to deal with it.. Plus, all very own templar defenses (blazing shield, blinding flashes, etc. etc.) have been taken away. That is why your comment is non sense!

It is not nonsense it happens on a daily basis. Look at some of Feng rush or sypher videos. Even with healing debuffs etc they can be damn near impossible to bring down. Healers such as kissandra literally just standing there being hammered by half a raid all at once and bol spam out paces all of that dps. Even without healing debuts and what not bol should not out pace the dps of half a raid. Or a player laying on the ground getting burst by 3 or 4 people should not be able to be healed quicker than the dps combos being put out by others because a healer is spamming one ability. Sure maybe it should outpace a single dps maybe. But even when you drop major defile on a player they will get healed quicker with bol then how quick they can be burst down.

You can talk about l2p all you want. Bottom line is the heal from bol was and is op. Reducing the amount of targets does not address this issue. They should keep the target number and tweak the healing. There are plenty of instances and videos out there of the issues I mention. No not every nub templar can do it. But the majority of temp heals can and it is not difficult to achieve nor more then a one button spam to accomplish. Also, you call a LA user a "defensive build"? Interesting.

And why do other skills being needed have anything to do with an argument about bol and why do those nerds make my comment nonsense? We are talking about a specific skill right now. I have zero issue with buffing other skills. Go ahead and do that no problem. In fact I encourage it. That still is no reason to keep bol as is. In fact I would mind increasing the targets hit so long as the healing was reduced.

In that video with Fengrush, Kissandra is being healed by herself and 5 other Templar in the top level of the tower. This is why people say that LoS was the problem, not the number of players healed.

And BTW Fengrush and his team won that fight, it just took a while, which is really what should be what stands out. He was unhappy it took so long, not that he lost or anything. A whole lot of complaining over nothing.

I am not talking about a specific fight. One fight doesn't show anything. It is the body of fights that illustrate the pojnt. Yes. I believe Los is an issue. Plenty of times a healer is just hiding and spamming bol. But think about that for a second. Why can a healer just sit behind a wall and spam one ability to heal a few people getting hammered? Beaches bol heals too much. There is no reason to use another heal and be strategic about heals. A healer knows that if they sit behind a wall spamming one ability that that one ability heals will take care of everyone because of how much it heals for. Los is an issue but it is not the only issue. In fact, lowering bol heals would force healers to show themselves for the fight because they will have to combine bol with other heals which it currently does not have to.

There are literally only so many places you can 'hide' in a keep and outpost, and most are quite obvious. If you're open field and you can't see/realize there's a healer behind a tree/rock, well, you're not as good a pvper as you think you are. It's pretty obvious when someone that you're fighting is being healed with BoL, if your dps aren't smart enough to grab the healer, well...

The entire silly thread on LoS was about a tower fight. If healers are on upper floors healing, here's a thought, maybe don't stand in oil and fight on the first floor and instead go pressure the healers. If the healers are outside the tower healing, well, at that point you're trying to farm, in which case 1- it shouldn't be encouraged, and 2- stealth, drop down and bomb the door as the main force pushes inside the tower and now you can wipe their healers.

I think at this point we should just agree to disagree. You won't convince me that bol does not heal touch and I won't convince you the other way. So let's leave it at that so we don't end up bickering back and fourth the entire thread.

Bazeric

EDIT: I done caring. Heal-bot or die. RIP

danno8

Soris wrote: »

I just discovered another stealth nerf. Blazing spear stun radius decreased to its animation radius not the yellow circle you see while putting it. Test yorself please and see.

Edit, it is actually between the animation radius and that yellow circle radius. This isnt working like this in live. Why did you do this zeni?

I can confirm that the stun only occurs on the inner 6m of the circle (where the Blazing animation plays) and not on the part in -between there and the aiming ring 8m.

However I tested both Live and PTS and both will not stun in this in-between 1m area.

Damage will still occur in the full yellow ring aiming 8m area on both PTS and Live.

I also measured the yellow ring using landmarks to be sure they didn't change the size of it. They didn't.

danno8

Zheg wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Did some quick testing about champion passives and jab damage, here is the result.

• Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%)
  Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2181
  Burning Light dmg is 2866

• Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%) + Tharmaturge 30 points (10.8%)
  Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2521
  Burning Light is 3129

As a result, as you can see we still have to spread cp into two different trees in order to buff our main dmg ability.
I have not yet tested this in pvp vs players but i believe damage of sweeps can also be reduced by both magic damage and dot dmg reduction passives in red trees as it's already in live since 1.6 released. This should be fixed already.

/gonna test with stamina morph as well.
/same with biting jabs.

@Soris that's actually a buff. It allows us to essentially double the increase in damage from CP than last patch (there are 2 trees that affect jabs now)

Obviously, we only have 501 CP. However, once the CP cap is raised to 600 something, we'll be able to increase our jab damage by 25% and 25%

Yes and no blab. With cp caps, it's not always that cut and dry. Whatever points go into a second tree to increase base damage are ones you can't put into increasing crit dmg and heals which benefits other skills (or to increase flat healing). Either way, this point is moot, it sounds like thaumaturge isn't actually increasing the damage, just tooltip dmg as a bug from what that start used to do.

It's definitely increasing the damage on Jabs. I did testing and was trying to figure out how to maximize the damage. Both Ele and Thaum affect it's actual damage.

Increasing base damage is more important than increasing crit damage. Crit damage scales off of base damage. With impen and crit resist running around(and shields), buffing your base damage is far more beneficial, as it increases your crit damage as well. Plus, you won't be reliant on crits

Bahh. Previous posts on the other page were confusing then, seemed like someone confirmed it was just tool tip. Anyway, again, yes and no on the CP. If thaumaturge isn't increasing dmg on things like blazing spears or dark flare, the points could be better spent elsewhere. Agreed on the impen making crit dmg less useful, but templar heals don't have that problem, so it can still be a more useful star because it has double benefits. If you're not all that high on crit, 67 points in healing is nothing to sneeze at for a magicka templar either.

I went back to my post to clarify that I was testing Dark Flare only in that test.

danno8

DHale wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Did some quick testing about champion passives and jab damage, here is the result.

• Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%)
  Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2181
  Burning Light dmg is 2866

• Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%) + Tharmaturge 30 points (10.8%)
  Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2521
  Burning Light is 3129

As a result, as you can see we still have to spread cp into two different trees in order to buff our main dmg ability.
I have not yet tested this in pvp vs players but i believe damage of sweeps can also be reduced by both magic damage and dot dmg reduction passives in red trees as it's already in live since 1.6 released. This should be fixed already.

/gonna test with stamina morph as well.
/same with biting jabs.

@Soris that's actually a buff. It allows us to essentially double the increase in damage from CP than last patch (there are 2 trees that affect jabs now)

Obviously, we only have 501 CP. However, once the CP cap is raised to 600 something, we'll be able to increase our jab damage by 25% and 25%

Hi blab, why would elemental expert have any effect on flare or sweeps it is magic damage, is it not? Not sure why we need to spec both trees. Not sure why burning light would be impacted as well. It's not supposed to be fire.

Patch notes. EE is being changed to include magicka damage. Thaumaturge is being changed to only boost DoT's, which apparently Sweeps is a part of.

ZoS seems to find it hard to differentiate between DoT's and Channels. If they read this I will make it simple. DoT's are set and forget damage that tick while you can do other things, channels require you to do nothing except stand there and channel the spell and often root or slow you.

Pretty obvious in my opinion.

kfronckowiak

/deletetemplar gg yet again Zos...

blabafat

DHale wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Did some quick testing about champion passives and jab damage, here is the result.

• Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%)
  Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2181
  Burning Light dmg is 2866

• Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%) + Tharmaturge 30 points (10.8%)
  Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2521
  Burning Light is 3129

As a result, as you can see we still have to spread cp into two different trees in order to buff our main dmg ability.
I have not yet tested this in pvp vs players but i believe damage of sweeps can also be reduced by both magic damage and dot dmg reduction passives in red trees as it's already in live since 1.6 released. This should be fixed already.

/gonna test with stamina morph as well.
/same with biting jabs.

@Soris that's actually a buff. It allows us to essentially double the increase in damage from CP than last patch (there are 2 trees that affect jabs now)

Obviously, we only have 501 CP. However, once the CP cap is raised to 600 something, we'll be able to increase our jab damage by 25% and 25%

Hi blab, why would elemental expert have any effect on flare or sweeps it is magic damage, is it not? Not sure why we need to spec both trees. Not sure why burning light would be impacted as well. It's not supposed to be fire.

In the new update, magic damage was added to the elemental expert passive.

templesus

Idk about you but Radiant Aura granting 30% magicka regen? Taking that morph now so I can stack more SD and max magicka

Zheg

templesus wrote: »

Idk about you but Radiant Aura granting 30% magicka regen? Taking that morph now so I can stack more SD and max magicka

I don't think you fully understand how that works. It's the same major buff you get from using a potion, and previously, having the buff on you from radiant aura would PREVENT you from using your potion if it restored magicka. It needs to be separate from the major buff, or do something else.

templesus

Zheg wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Idk about you but Radiant Aura granting 30% magicka regen? Taking that morph now so I can stack more SD and max magicka

I don't think you fully understand how that works. It's the same major buff you get from using a potion, and previously, having the buff on you from radiant aura would PREVENT you from using your potion if it restored magicka. It needs to be separate from the major buff, or do something else.

Thank you for clarifying that, a question for Zos, since Jabs is considered a DoT, can it be cleansed? If I'm hitting NBs in cloack with it, are they going to take 0 damage? Get your facts straight Zos its a freaking channel

Joy_Division

nagarjunna wrote: »

There have been endless requests for Target Dummies.

This is the ZOS plan for Templars to be the dummies for the other classes to practice on.

LOL!

UrQuan

Zheg wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Idk about you but Radiant Aura granting 30% magicka regen? Taking that morph now so I can stack more SD and max magicka

I don't think you fully understand how that works. It's the same major buff you get from using a potion, and previously, having the buff on you from radiant aura would PREVENT you from using your potion if it restored magicka. It needs to be separate from the major buff, or do something else.

Whoa, wait what? It would prevent you from using a potion that grants that same buff? I'm OK with it not stacking, but preventing you from using a potion with that buff is a major problem. Has anyone tested if it's doing this on PTS? If nobody can report back on that by the time I get home from work I'll test it then.

Zheg

UrQuan wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

templesus wrote: »

Idk about you but Radiant Aura granting 30% magicka regen? Taking that morph now so I can stack more SD and max magicka

I don't think you fully understand how that works. It's the same major buff you get from using a potion, and previously, having the buff on you from radiant aura would PREVENT you from using your potion if it restored magicka. It needs to be separate from the major buff, or do something else.

Whoa, wait what? It would prevent you from using a potion that grants that same buff? I'm OK with it not stacking, but preventing you from using a potion with that buff is a major problem. Has anyone tested if it's doing this on PTS? If nobody can report back on that by the time I get home from work I'll test it then.

It used to, yes. We made it a requirement that no one run that in group because if you buffed someone with it, it would stop them from being able to pop their tri-pot when they needed to. I think it's fixed currently in live, though radiant aura is so lackluster that I don't even know anyone that has the morph on live that could confirm, and I expect I still won't when TG hits live - nice job with balance there wrobel. As with toppling charge, every major patch requires things to be retested to see if they're still broken, re-broken, or if they broke something new; radiant aura will be one of the ones on my list, not that I'd let anyone in my group run that.

Stanko

blabafat wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Did some quick testing about champion passives and jab damage, here is the result.

• Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%)
  Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2181
  Burning Light dmg is 2866

• Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%) + Tharmaturge 30 points (10.8%)
  Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2521
  Burning Light is 3129

As a result, as you can see we still have to spread cp into two different trees in order to buff our main dmg ability.
I have not yet tested this in pvp vs players but i believe damage of sweeps can also be reduced by both magic damage and dot dmg reduction passives in red trees as it's already in live since 1.6 released. This should be fixed already.

/gonna test with stamina morph as well.
/same with biting jabs.

@Soris that's actually a buff. It allows us to essentially double the increase in damage from CP than last patch (there are 2 trees that affect jabs now)

Obviously, we only have 501 CP. However, once the CP cap is raised to 600 something, we'll be able to increase our jab damage by 25% and 25%

Yes and no blab. With cp caps, it's not always that cut and dry. Whatever points go into a second tree to increase base damage are ones you can't put into increasing crit dmg and heals which benefits other skills (or to increase flat healing). Either way, this point is moot, it sounds like thaumaturge isn't actually increasing the damage, just tooltip dmg as a bug from what that start used to do.

It's definitely increasing the damage on Jabs. I did testing and was trying to figure out how to maximize the damage. Both Ele and Thaum affect it's actual damage.

Increasing base damage is more important than increasing crit damage. Crit damage scales off of base damage. With impen and crit resist running around(and shields), buffing your base damage is far more beneficial, as it increases your crit damage as well. Plus, you won't be reliant on crits

So, we'll do more damage with puncturing sweep, which will offset the healing reduction from 40% to 35% (i.e. we'll get about the same healing that we get on live). In situations where we can stand in channeled focus and spam puncturing sweep, we'll be almost invulnerable (e.g. Argonian Behemoth, last boss Arena 7, vMA). Basically, we're getting a major DPS buff without losing anything.

With regards to BoL, I've always used the Honor the Dead morph. It's practically free with the magicka return. So, I'm just not feeling the grief that a lot of people have with regards to BoL.

All in all, I don't feel that Templars have a lot to complain about. But then, I've always felt that way.

Soris

blabafat wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Did some quick testing about champion passives and jab damage, here is the result.

• Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%)
  Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2181
  Burning Light dmg is 2866

• Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%) + Tharmaturge 30 points (10.8%)
  Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2521
  Burning Light is 3129

As a result, as you can see we still have to spread cp into two different trees in order to buff our main dmg ability.
I have not yet tested this in pvp vs players but i believe damage of sweeps can also be reduced by both magic damage and dot dmg reduction passives in red trees as it's already in live since 1.6 released. This should be fixed already.

/gonna test with stamina morph as well.
/same with biting jabs.

@Soris that's actually a buff. It allows us to essentially double the increase in damage from CP than last patch (there are 2 trees that affect jabs now)

Obviously, we only have 501 CP. However, once the CP cap is raised to 600 something, we'll be able to increase our jab damage by 25% and 25%

It's good for pve. Problem is you have to spent 200 cp for one skill to use with its max potential while most other skills requires 100 only. Remember that thaumaturge passive does not scale as the same amount as elemental expert. You get less from it in contrats of EE, not percentage-wise but dps-wise. And also the fact that someone who spent points into obvious passives will reduce your damage x2 than any other direct skill. It's same in live server though. I was expecting a fix to this issue with this update.

Pomaikai

bowmanz607 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

The issue is when you have 8 people single targeting one guy that is getting BOL spammed from a templar and the heals outpacing the dps. This is especially true when fighting a templar with BOL. you end up with a raid hammering on one guy spamming bol. One spammable heal should not outheal a group hammering on one guy. that is too much.

Only nuub raids have that problem, as all other (broad majority) use heal-debuffs in PvP and the necessary skills against block+armor spec's (which can't be blocked), before focusing damage.

I do not want to read such comments, that a single player is able to outheal 20 attackers related to a specific defensive build. If you do not know how to combat such builds, you should not post about it but learn how to deal with it.. Plus, all very own templar defenses (blazing shield, blinding flashes, etc. etc.) have been taken away. That is why your comment is non sense!

It is not nonsense it happens on a daily basis. Look at some of Feng rush or sypher videos. Even with healing debuffs etc they can be damn near impossible to bring down. Healers such as kissandra literally just standing there being hammered by half a raid all at once and bol spam out paces all of that dps. Even without healing debuts and what not bol should not out pace the dps of half a raid. Or a player laying on the ground getting burst by 3 or 4 people should not be able to be healed quicker than the dps combos being put out by others because a healer is spamming one ability. Sure maybe it should outpace a single dps maybe. But even when you drop major defile on a player they will get healed quicker with bol then how quick they can be burst down.

You can talk about l2p all you want. Bottom line is the heal from bol was and is op. Reducing the amount of targets does not address this issue. They should keep the target number and tweak the healing. There are plenty of instances and videos out there of the issues I mention. No not every nub templar can do it. But the majority of temp heals can and it is not difficult to achieve nor more then a one button spam to accomplish. Also, you call a LA user a "defensive build"? Interesting.

And why do other skills being needed have anything to do with an argument about bol and why do those nerds make my comment nonsense? We are talking about a specific skill right now. I have zero issue with buffing other skills. Go ahead and do that no problem. In fact I encourage it. That still is no reason to keep bol as is. In fact I would mind increasing the targets hit so long as the healing was reduced.

In that video with Fengrush, Kissandra is being healed by herself and 5 other Templar in the top level of the tower. This is why people say that LoS was the problem, not the number of players healed.

And BTW Fengrush and his team won that fight, it just took a while, which is really what should be what stands out. He was unhappy it took so long, not that he lost or anything. A whole lot of complaining over nothing.

I am not talking about a specific fight. One fight doesn't show anything. It is the body of fights that illustrate the pojnt. Yes. I believe Los is an issue. Plenty of times a healer is just hiding and spamming bol. But think about that for a second. Why can a healer just sit behind a wall and spam one ability to heal a few people getting hammered? Beaches bol heals too much. There is no reason to use another heal and be strategic about heals. A healer knows that if they sit behind a wall spamming one ability that that one ability heals will take care of everyone because of how much it heals for. Los is an issue but it is not the only issue. In fact, lowering bol heals would force healers to show themselves for the fight because they will have to combine bol with other heals which it currently does not have to.

Why do we hide behind a wall? Because ZOS won't let us move, and as soon as the rest of the raid knows where we are, they focus 100% on us, and we die in seconds. If we had some mobility, some CC, workable shields, and resource management that didn't require us to stand perfectly still with nothing touching us that could break channeling, then we'd be out there in the thick of it. Why? Because that's actually FUN as opposed to hiding in a corner and spamming BoL. Y'all QQ'd about us till we reached the point where the only way to survive in PVP is to hide who and what we are in a group, and now y'all are QQ'ing that we got good at what you left us with. Quite frankly, we're tired of this steaming mess we've been handed on a platter.

AfkNinja

Pomaikai wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

The issue is when you have 8 people single targeting one guy that is getting BOL spammed from a templar and the heals outpacing the dps. This is especially true when fighting a templar with BOL. you end up with a raid hammering on one guy spamming bol. One spammable heal should not outheal a group hammering on one guy. that is too much.

Only nuub raids have that problem, as all other (broad majority) use heal-debuffs in PvP and the necessary skills against block+armor spec's (which can't be blocked), before focusing damage.

I do not want to read such comments, that a single player is able to outheal 20 attackers related to a specific defensive build. If you do not know how to combat such builds, you should not post about it but learn how to deal with it.. Plus, all very own templar defenses (blazing shield, blinding flashes, etc. etc.) have been taken away. That is why your comment is non sense!

It is not nonsense it happens on a daily basis. Look at some of Feng rush or sypher videos. Even with healing debuffs etc they can be damn near impossible to bring down. Healers such as kissandra literally just standing there being hammered by half a raid all at once and bol spam out paces all of that dps. Even without healing debuts and what not bol should not out pace the dps of half a raid. Or a player laying on the ground getting burst by 3 or 4 people should not be able to be healed quicker than the dps combos being put out by others because a healer is spamming one ability. Sure maybe it should outpace a single dps maybe. But even when you drop major defile on a player they will get healed quicker with bol then how quick they can be burst down.

You can talk about l2p all you want. Bottom line is the heal from bol was and is op. Reducing the amount of targets does not address this issue. They should keep the target number and tweak the healing. There are plenty of instances and videos out there of the issues I mention. No not every nub templar can do it. But the majority of temp heals can and it is not difficult to achieve nor more then a one button spam to accomplish. Also, you call a LA user a "defensive build"? Interesting.

And why do other skills being needed have anything to do with an argument about bol and why do those nerds make my comment nonsense? We are talking about a specific skill right now. I have zero issue with buffing other skills. Go ahead and do that no problem. In fact I encourage it. That still is no reason to keep bol as is. In fact I would mind increasing the targets hit so long as the healing was reduced.

In that video with Fengrush, Kissandra is being healed by herself and 5 other Templar in the top level of the tower. This is why people say that LoS was the problem, not the number of players healed.

And BTW Fengrush and his team won that fight, it just took a while, which is really what should be what stands out. He was unhappy it took so long, not that he lost or anything. A whole lot of complaining over nothing.

I am not talking about a specific fight. One fight doesn't show anything. It is the body of fights that illustrate the pojnt. Yes. I believe Los is an issue. Plenty of times a healer is just hiding and spamming bol. But think about that for a second. Why can a healer just sit behind a wall and spam one ability to heal a few people getting hammered? Beaches bol heals too much. There is no reason to use another heal and be strategic about heals. A healer knows that if they sit behind a wall spamming one ability that that one ability heals will take care of everyone because of how much it heals for. Los is an issue but it is not the only issue. In fact, lowering bol heals would force healers to show themselves for the fight because they will have to combine bol with other heals which it currently does not have to.

Why do we hide behind a wall? Because ZOS won't let us move, and as soon as the rest of the raid knows where we are, they focus 100% on us, and we die in seconds. If we had some mobility, some CC, workable shields, and resource management that didn't require us to stand perfectly still with nothing touching us that could break channeling, then we'd be out there in the thick of it. Why? Because that's actually FUN as opposed to hiding in a corner and spamming BoL. Y'all QQ'd about us till we reached the point where the only way to survive in PVP is to hide who and what we are in a group, and now y'all are QQ'ing that we got good at what you left us with. Quite frankly, we're tired of this steaming mess we've been handed on a platter.

OHHHHHH BUUUURRRNNNNN!!! Well said.

bowmanz607

Pomaikai wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

The issue is when you have 8 people single targeting one guy that is getting BOL spammed from a templar and the heals outpacing the dps. This is especially true when fighting a templar with BOL. you end up with a raid hammering on one guy spamming bol. One spammable heal should not outheal a group hammering on one guy. that is too much.

Only nuub raids have that problem, as all other (broad majority) use heal-debuffs in PvP and the necessary skills against block+armor spec's (which can't be blocked), before focusing damage.

I do not want to read such comments, that a single player is able to outheal 20 attackers related to a specific defensive build. If you do not know how to combat such builds, you should not post about it but learn how to deal with it.. Plus, all very own templar defenses (blazing shield, blinding flashes, etc. etc.) have been taken away. That is why your comment is non sense!

It is not nonsense it happens on a daily basis. Look at some of Feng rush or sypher videos. Even with healing debuffs etc they can be damn near impossible to bring down. Healers such as kissandra literally just standing there being hammered by half a raid all at once and bol spam out paces all of that dps. Even without healing debuts and what not bol should not out pace the dps of half a raid. Or a player laying on the ground getting burst by 3 or 4 people should not be able to be healed quicker than the dps combos being put out by others because a healer is spamming one ability. Sure maybe it should outpace a single dps maybe. But even when you drop major defile on a player they will get healed quicker with bol then how quick they can be burst down.

You can talk about l2p all you want. Bottom line is the heal from bol was and is op. Reducing the amount of targets does not address this issue. They should keep the target number and tweak the healing. There are plenty of instances and videos out there of the issues I mention. No not every nub templar can do it. But the majority of temp heals can and it is not difficult to achieve nor more then a one button spam to accomplish. Also, you call a LA user a "defensive build"? Interesting.

And why do other skills being needed have anything to do with an argument about bol and why do those nerds make my comment nonsense? We are talking about a specific skill right now. I have zero issue with buffing other skills. Go ahead and do that no problem. In fact I encourage it. That still is no reason to keep bol as is. In fact I would mind increasing the targets hit so long as the healing was reduced.

In that video with Fengrush, Kissandra is being healed by herself and 5 other Templar in the top level of the tower. This is why people say that LoS was the problem, not the number of players healed.

And BTW Fengrush and his team won that fight, it just took a while, which is really what should be what stands out. He was unhappy it took so long, not that he lost or anything. A whole lot of complaining over nothing.

I am not talking about a specific fight. One fight doesn't show anything. It is the body of fights that illustrate the pojnt. Yes. I believe Los is an issue. Plenty of times a healer is just hiding and spamming bol. But think about that for a second. Why can a healer just sit behind a wall and spam one ability to heal a few people getting hammered? Beaches bol heals too much. There is no reason to use another heal and be strategic about heals. A healer knows that if they sit behind a wall spamming one ability that that one ability heals will take care of everyone because of how much it heals for. Los is an issue but it is not the only issue. In fact, lowering bol heals would force healers to show themselves for the fight because they will have to combine bol with other heals which it currently does not have to.

Why do we hide behind a wall? Because ZOS won't let us move, and as soon as the rest of the raid knows where we are, they focus 100% on us, and we die in seconds. If we had some mobility, some CC, workable shields, and resource management that didn't require us to stand perfectly still with nothing touching us that could break channeling, then we'd be out there in the thick of it. Why? Because that's actually FUN as opposed to hiding in a corner and spamming BoL. Y'all QQ'd about us till we reached the point where the only way to survive in PVP is to hide who and what we are in a group, and now y'all are QQ'ing that we got good at what you left us with. Quite frankly, we're tired of this steaming mess we've been handed on a platter.

i didnt QQ about crap. ither than the jesus beam that was supposed to be used as an execute and was used as a spammable dps instead. Tell ZOS to fix those things. They should fix some of the mobility/defensive issues. They should fix the bugged abilities. But they should also tweak the bol heals.

Pomaikai

You can worry about fixing the BoL heals when the rest is fixed. Right now it's being done bassackwards, and you know it! Nerfing BEFORE a fix to all that is broken is just plain wrong.

AfkNinja

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

The issue is when you have 8 people single targeting one guy that is getting BOL spammed from a templar and the heals outpacing the dps. This is especially true when fighting a templar with BOL. you end up with a raid hammering on one guy spamming bol. One spammable heal should not outheal a group hammering on one guy. that is too much.

Only nuub raids have that problem, as all other (broad majority) use heal-debuffs in PvP and the necessary skills against block+armor spec's (which can't be blocked), before focusing damage.

I do not want to read such comments, that a single player is able to outheal 20 attackers related to a specific defensive build. If you do not know how to combat such builds, you should not post about it but learn how to deal with it.. Plus, all very own templar defenses (blazing shield, blinding flashes, etc. etc.) have been taken away. That is why your comment is non sense!

It is not nonsense it happens on a daily basis. Look at some of Feng rush or sypher videos. Even with healing debuffs etc they can be damn near impossible to bring down. Healers such as kissandra literally just standing there being hammered by half a raid all at once and bol spam out paces all of that dps. Even without healing debuts and what not bol should not out pace the dps of half a raid. Or a player laying on the ground getting burst by 3 or 4 people should not be able to be healed quicker than the dps combos being put out by others because a healer is spamming one ability. Sure maybe it should outpace a single dps maybe. But even when you drop major defile on a player they will get healed quicker with bol then how quick they can be burst down.

You can talk about l2p all you want. Bottom line is the heal from bol was and is op. Reducing the amount of targets does not address this issue. They should keep the target number and tweak the healing. There are plenty of instances and videos out there of the issues I mention. No not every nub templar can do it. But the majority of temp heals can and it is not difficult to achieve nor more then a one button spam to accomplish. Also, you call a LA user a "defensive build"? Interesting.

And why do other skills being needed have anything to do with an argument about bol and why do those nerds make my comment nonsense? We are talking about a specific skill right now. I have zero issue with buffing other skills. Go ahead and do that no problem. In fact I encourage it. That still is no reason to keep bol as is. In fact I would mind increasing the targets hit so long as the healing was reduced.

In that video with Fengrush, Kissandra is being healed by herself and 5 other Templar in the top level of the tower. This is why people say that LoS was the problem, not the number of players healed.

And BTW Fengrush and his team won that fight, it just took a while, which is really what should be what stands out. He was unhappy it took so long, not that he lost or anything. A whole lot of complaining over nothing.

I am not talking about a specific fight. One fight doesn't show anything. It is the body of fights that illustrate the pojnt. Yes. I believe Los is an issue. Plenty of times a healer is just hiding and spamming bol. But think about that for a second. Why can a healer just sit behind a wall and spam one ability to heal a few people getting hammered? Beaches bol heals too much. There is no reason to use another heal and be strategic about heals. A healer knows that if they sit behind a wall spamming one ability that that one ability heals will take care of everyone because of how much it heals for. Los is an issue but it is not the only issue. In fact, lowering bol heals would force healers to show themselves for the fight because they will have to combine bol with other heals which it currently does not have to.

Why do we hide behind a wall? Because ZOS won't let us move, and as soon as the rest of the raid knows where we are, they focus 100% on us, and we die in seconds. If we had some mobility, some CC, workable shields, and resource management that didn't require us to stand perfectly still with nothing touching us that could break channeling, then we'd be out there in the thick of it. Why? Because that's actually FUN as opposed to hiding in a corner and spamming BoL. Y'all QQ'd about us till we reached the point where the only way to survive in PVP is to hide who and what we are in a group, and now y'all are QQ'ing that we got good at what you left us with. Quite frankly, we're tired of this steaming mess we've been handed on a platter.

i didnt QQ about crap. ither than the jesus beam that was supposed to be used as an execute and was used as a spammable dps instead. Tell ZOS to fix those things. They should fix some of the mobility/defensive issues. They should fix the bugged abilities. But they should also tweak the bol heals.

Templars have posted dozens, DOZENS, of threads asking for real changes. None of the requested changes were groundbreaking we just wanted to be ON PAR with other classes. We have been ignored for about 2 years and only 2, that's right 2, of the changes we requested made it in. (Major Mending and Snare on Jabs, they also nerfed Major Mending before giving it to us then nerfed the healing on Puncturing to top it off.)

Pom wasn't saying you directly were the one QQ'ing, Pom is saying the community as a whole was complaining any time Templar got a leg up because "heals", and that left us one real role of healer. Now they nerf the final play-style we have left and throw us a couple token improvements for "balance". Meanwhile the changes to the other classes were definitely more thought out in comparison and didn't result in a 25% direct nerf to their PRIMARY DEFENSE. Also, Stamplar got Major Mending only, that's it.

If you list the primary changes to each class over just the last year, not to mention last two, it's obvious there is a huge discrepancy with Templar vs other classes. The changes we get tend to be not well thought out and they are always coupled with nerfs. In the end Templar remains the worst in every roll each patch because the nerfs are balancing the buffs and canceling them out.

Dedricus

So, it's been a few days. Can we get a dev response or something?

Tankqull

danno8 wrote: »

Essiaga wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Rune Focus - The main change that caught my eye:

Rune Focus: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.

If I'm reading this correctly, it states that you MUST be INSIDE the circle at all times to receive the buffs that each morph provides. When I logged onto the PTS today, I was still receiving the magicka while being outside the circle. The magicka gain lasted 18 seconds, just like it does on live. I hope this isn't a bug, as forcing us to be immobile doesn't make any sense. Nobody will use the ability if he/she is forced to stand in a circle that has a 1 meter diameter.

What!? I thought that having to remain in the circle for the buffs from the morphs was always the case. The Major Ward and Major Resolve only lasting for 8 seconds after leaving the circle was always the case. A bit short. But you could always run back over your circle and get another full 8 secs. Not very mobile. But you could still move around the circle area.

But the Magicka regen from Chanelled Focus always required you to remain in the circle. You didn't receive the magicka regen once you left the circle. If this wasn't the case, then I've been benefiting from maigicka regen that I didn't realize I was getting.

Magicka regen for 18 seconds sounds amazingly too good to be true. I'd settle for even the 8 seconds like the unmorphed buffs. If only.

Using AUI I've not seen the magicka regen outside of the Rune. Infact the skill seems to be the most accurate area of effect in the game to me. No give at all.

The magicka return (Channeled Focus) has ALWAYS occurred outside of the circle. Always. And it still does not require you to be in the circle on the PTS either.

I think they need to explicitly state this in the tooltip because I have personally explained it on the forums a couple dozen times.

If you are not seeing it, make sure you actually have less than 100% magicka, because it will stop if you don't have it.

the problem is by rewording the tool tip they clearly state that they want the skill to require to stand in it to recieve any magica refill(gladly it does not neither on life nor on the PTS but thats actually a bug...) - so sooner or later like purifying they will fix it to do that wich is the core problem.

Zinaroth

Dedricus wrote: »

So, it's been a few days. Can we get a dev response or something?

Wishful thinking. Dedicated 3-4 hours of my life compiling a major write up on Stamina Templars and what should happen including reasoning and data. Haven't even gotten a wink of aknowledgement...

Dedricus

Zinaroth wrote: »

Dedricus wrote: »

So, it's been a few days. Can we get a dev response or something?

Wishful thinking. Dedicated 3-4 hours of my life compiling a major write up on Stamina Templars and what should happen including reasoning and data. Haven't even gotten a wink of aknowledgement...

At least I read it... and as a Stamina Templar Tank, you have my thanks for that post.

AfkNinja

Zinaroth wrote: »

Dedricus wrote: »

So, it's been a few days. Can we get a dev response or something?

Wishful thinking. Dedicated 3-4 hours of my life compiling a major write up on Stamina Templars and what should happen including reasoning and data. Haven't even gotten a wink of aknowledgement...

We appreciate your efforts and I am sure you appreciate mine. Not about to stop being vocal about ESO till they drive me to quit.

danno8

Tankqull wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Essiaga wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Rune Focus - The main change that caught my eye:

Rune Focus: Revised the tooltips for this ability and its morphs to indicate that the Major Ward and Major Resolve buffs will stick to you for 8 seconds after leaving the rune, while the morph effects of Channeled Focus and Restoring Focus require you to remain in the rune at all times.

If I'm reading this correctly, it states that you MUST be INSIDE the circle at all times to receive the buffs that each morph provides. When I logged onto the PTS today, I was still receiving the magicka while being outside the circle. The magicka gain lasted 18 seconds, just like it does on live. I hope this isn't a bug, as forcing us to be immobile doesn't make any sense. Nobody will use the ability if he/she is forced to stand in a circle that has a 1 meter diameter.

What!? I thought that having to remain in the circle for the buffs from the morphs was always the case. The Major Ward and Major Resolve only lasting for 8 seconds after leaving the circle was always the case. A bit short. But you could always run back over your circle and get another full 8 secs. Not very mobile. But you could still move around the circle area.

But the Magicka regen from Chanelled Focus always required you to remain in the circle. You didn't receive the magicka regen once you left the circle. If this wasn't the case, then I've been benefiting from maigicka regen that I didn't realize I was getting.

Magicka regen for 18 seconds sounds amazingly too good to be true. I'd settle for even the 8 seconds like the unmorphed buffs. If only.

Using AUI I've not seen the magicka regen outside of the Rune. Infact the skill seems to be the most accurate area of effect in the game to me. No give at all.

The magicka return (Channeled Focus) has ALWAYS occurred outside of the circle. Always. And it still does not require you to be in the circle on the PTS either.

I think they need to explicitly state this in the tooltip because I have personally explained it on the forums a couple dozen times.

If you are not seeing it, make sure you actually have less than 100% magicka, because it will stop if you don't have it.

the problem is by rewording the tool tip they clearly state that they want the skill to require to stand in it to recieve any magica refill(gladly it does not neither on life nor on the PTS but thats actually a bug...) - so sooner or later like purifying they will fix it to do that wich is the core problem.

I agree, they reworded it explicitly now. Add that to the nerf column.

I am done with testing.

nagarjunna

So stepping back a bit... rather than being specific about the many poor/bad/good changes that we have been given. This DLC was touted as being the class balancing DLC. Everyone was going to be bought into some semblance of parity - admittedly I believe that given the class differences and functions that was going to be hard. I do believe they have largely achieved class balance - you'll note I said largely...

One other point that I want to make is that this should be viewed from the perspective of your strictly average Templar! The top players will always be good! The vast majority of players come out on the weekend, have fun, a few beers and kill things! They are not interested in min-max/top doggery/whatever - they just want to have fun.

When you look at it from that perspective, the other classes have been balanced with respect to the one thing that we were good at - healing.

Right now and from my minimal testing on PTS:

DPS - Other classes do it better!
Tanking - Other classes do it better!
Healing - Other classes do it better!

So what purpose do we serve in the class balancing act? Have we benefited from this balancing? Are we having fun?

dodgehopper_ESO

Francescolg wrote: »

Jaywics wrote: »

Just come right out and say I wasted months of my time and I must now re-roll another class and loss my 289 skill points ffs..

We already WARNED every new Templar approx. 1 year ago NOT TO PLAY this class, in sight of the changes to HP/Blazing shield and the only (real) Group-CC the Templar had (blinding flashes).
So, no excuse sorry. All signs for the Templar's future were already not so positive, so that even a dyslexic ESO player was aware that Templars get beaten (nurfed) patch by patch.

It is too late for excuses now. And everybody who is terrified by this (omg so unexpected) nurf, should keep calm!

I've been giving them feedback about the class since beta, and I intend to continue to do so as long as I need to and I'm still playing the game. I don't pay them 15 dollars a month to sit on their hands, or to slap me in the face with a rotten tilapia.