Official Feedback Thread for Templars

Francescolg · February 2016

Jaywics wrote: »

Just come right out and say I wasted months of my time and I must now re-roll another class and loss my 289 skill points ffs..

We already WARNED every new Templar approx. 1 year ago NOT TO PLAY this class, in sight of the changes to HP/Blazing shield and the only (real) Group-CC the Templar had (blinding flashes).
So, no excuse sorry. All signs for the Templar's future were already not so positive, so that even a dyslexic ESO player was aware that Templars get beaten (nurfed) patch by patch.

It is too late for excuses now. And everybody who is terrified by this (omg so unexpected) nurf, should keep calm!

tinythinker · February 2016

Francescolg wrote: »

Jaywics wrote: »

Just come right out and say I wasted months of my time and I must now re-roll another class and loss my 289 skill points ffs..

We already WARNED every new Templar approx. 1 year ago NOT TO PLAY this class, in sight of the changes to HP/Blazing shield and the only (real) Group-CC the Templar had (blinding flashes).
So, no excuse sorry. All signs for the Templar's future were already not so positive, so that even a dyslexic ESO player was aware that Templars get beaten (nurfed) patch by patch.

It is too late for excuses now. And everybody who is terrified by this (omg so unexpected) nurf, should keep calm!

So what you are saying is...

llllADBllll · February 2016

The breath of life nerf is along the right lines but I just think it should reduce the healing to the 3rd and 4th person as well as or a reduced cost. If a tank is doing his job well he shouldn't need as many heald as the DD and it's encouraging the return of a tank to all delves since most can be done with 3 DPS and no need for a tank.

A couple of tanks in the Guild are being called out of retirement should this remain in place but removing one person from the heals makes PvE delves much harder. It would also makes sense to make this so it only heals people in your group so AP farmers don't continue to have a field day.

Combat Prayer will become the new BoL in Cyrodiil if these changes continue to remain.

Also think Purifying Light should Crit as it's our only move that doesn't yet other DoTs can Crit Blazing Spear with Burning Light for example.

Love the buff to eclipse, unlimited targets and reflect physical attacks but Channeled Focus making us have to remain static for the magicka means we need sun shield which with a 6% damage shield bonus on a health based scale is just plain silly. Either scale the shield off magicka extend the length or remove it altogether.

The Healing Ritual needs further reduction in cast time for it to be ever be used by any healer. The game is far too fast paced to be spending that amount of time channeling a heal.

Just hope toppling charge is fixed as intended.

Console Player so only reading patch notes not tested yet. Hope my opinion is still valid for feedback.

Thanks

Kevmeister · February 2016

CraftMaster wrote: »

The breath of life nerf is along the right lines but I just think it should reduce the healing to the 3rd and 4th person as well as or a reduced cost. If a tank is doing his job well he shouldn't need as many heald as the DD and it's encouraging the return of a tank to all delves since most can be done with 3 DPS and no need for a tank.

For the umpteenth time, BoL only heals 3 targets. Never a 4th. Maybe due to this misconception by others, they perceived that it heals everyone in a group and that the heal is 'OP'. It heals 3 out 4 players. And now, with the upcoming change in PTS, it's 2 out of 4 players.

Ashamray · February 2016

Actually due to Major Mendig heals from Sweeps, Restostaff, funny Undaunted orbs, Total Dark will become stronger.
Nothing serious with jabs little ninja nerf. Zos are just impolite. Shame on them!

avelopolcakb14a_ESO · February 2016

I'm not sure I understand people's complaints with BoL for PvP. You honestly want to be able to burst a target down while it is being concentrated healed by a dedicated healer? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? In any game ever created with healers in PvP, you don't just run around willy nilly like idiots targeting whoever the F you want. You have to prioritize healers because they ARE SUPPOSED TO KEEP PEOPLE ALIVE.

THAT is how it SHOULD be.

The other changes to templar are even more laughable.

AriBoh · February 2016

avelopolcakb14a_ESO wrote: »

I'm not sure I understand people's complaints with BoL for PvP. You honestly want to be able to burst a target down while it is being concentrated healed by a dedicated healer? Do you know how ridiculous that sounds? In any game ever created with healers in PvP, you don't just run around willy nilly like idiots targeting whoever the F you want. You have to prioritize healers because they ARE SUPPOSED TO KEEP PEOPLE ALIVE.

THAT is how it SHOULD be.

The other changes to templar are even more laughable.

And with the nerf we'll be keeping LESS people alive in pvp and pve.

kaithuzar · February 2016

Magicka Templar is broken, almost all damage seems to be increased 20% on every ability, not sure what is going on exactly but javelin & others are hitting way harder than before.
Magicka Templar is going to be the most Over Powered DPS class & the most Over Powered PVP flavor of the month this coming Thieves guild patch.

Francescolg · February 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

The issue is when you have 8 people single targeting one guy that is getting BOL spammed from a templar and the heals outpacing the dps. This is especially true when fighting a templar with BOL. you end up with a raid hammering on one guy spamming bol. One spammable heal should not outheal a group hammering on one guy. that is too much.

Only nuub raids have that problem, as all other (broad majority) use heal-debuffs in PvP and the necessary skills against block+armor spec's (which can't be blocked), before focusing damage.

I do not want to read such comments, that a single player is able to outheal 20 attackers related to a specific defensive build. If you do not know how to combat such builds, you should not post about it but learn how to deal with it.. Plus, all very own templar defenses (blazing shield, blinding flashes, etc. etc.) have been taken away. That is why your comment is non sense!

tplink3r1 · February 2016

kaithuzar wrote: »

Magicka Templar is broken, almost all damage seems to be increased 20% on every ability, not sure what is going on exactly but javelin & others are hitting way harder than before.
Magicka Templar is going to be the most Over Powered DPS class & the most Over Powered PVP flavor of the month this coming Thieves guild patch.

People said that on the last 2 PTS versions.

Zheg · February 2016

I already posted this in Nifty's rune focus thread, but since this is the 'official' templar feedback thread...

Part of the main driving force behind templar issues isn't that the skills are terribad per say, but the mechanics of many skills are clunky and/or require cast times/channels. A few here and there is one thing, but the sheer volume that templar has greatly contributes to the current problems.

Every skill that's clunky because of poor targeting/cast time/mechanics:

radial sweep - the damage comes in three pulses all in a 6m radius for enemies to take full damage, very difficult to pull off in pvp
jabs/sweep - easy to strafe/walk through/avoid, has a channel time
blazing spears - you have to be prophetic to know both where your opponent will be and where the lag will allow you to actually drop the spears
dark flare - channel, easy to spot, avoid, and reflect
radiant destruction - channel, not as derpy as the others, but still requires a channel
remembrance - you're locked in place for 4 seconds and it's another channel
ritual - cast time, slow mobility while casting, not a reliable group heal - which is the entire purpose of the skill
focus - now you're locked inside a tiny circle, yay. Guess what, it doesn't work that way in pvp

Out of 18 possible active skills, 8 made that list, that's literally almost HALF of all templar skills. If I had to do the same for all of the other classes, even when the sorc/NB/DK lists are combined, the templar list would STILL be longer. We have mobility and defensive issues, and now pretty much every healing skill in the restoring light line is one-upped by a resto staff skill. Frankly, sun shield should be on this list purely for clunky mechanic (a paltry shield that lasts 6 seconds and has a smaller radius of damage than WB... ffs). The templar feedback would not be twice as long as the other class threads if you had actually revamped radial sweep to be useful, if blazing spears wasn't still derptacular to target in lag, if remembrance didn't lock you in place, if ritual could actually be used as a group heal in combat situations to replace breath of life, and if you didn't intend for every templar to stand inside the tiny ass circle of rune focus. The change I mentioned for remembrance aside, in what way would any of those changes be unbalanced wrobel? We're looking for FIXES to the class, we're not asking for OP buffs.

puffy99 · February 2016

Yep, I doubt that unless their code is messed up and someone forgot the kill Templars memo..

Zinaroth · February 2016

Zheg wrote: »

I already posted this in Nifty's rune focus thread, but since this is the 'official' templar feedback thread...

Part of the main driving force behind templar issues isn't that the skills are terribad per say, but the mechanics of many skills are clunky and/or require cast times/channels. A few here and there is one thing, but the sheer volume that templar has greatly contributes to the current problems.

Every skill that's clunky because of poor targeting/cast time/mechanics:
radial sweep - the damage comes in three pulses all in a 6m radius for enemies to take full damage, very difficult to pull off in pvp

jabs/sweep - easy to strafe/walk through/avoid, has a channel time

blazing spears - you have to be prophetic to know both where your opponent will be and where the lag will allow you to actually drop the spears

dark flare - channel, easy to spot, avoid, and reflect

radiant destruction - channel, not as derpy as the others, but still requires a channel

remembrance - you're locked in place for 4 seconds and it's another channel

ritual - cast time, slow mobility while casting, not a reliable group heal - which is the entire purpose of the skill

focus - now you're locked inside a tiny circle, yay. Guess what, it doesn't work that way in pvp

Out of 18 possible active skills, 8 made that list, that's literally almost HALF of all templar skills. If I had to do the same for all of the other classes, even when the sorc/NB/DK lists are combined, the templar list would STILL be longer. We have mobility and defensive issues, and now pretty much every healing skill in the restoring light line is one-upped by a resto staff skill. Frankly, sun shield should be on this list purely for clunky mechanic (a paltry shield that lasts 6 seconds and has a smaller radius of damage than WB... ffs). The templar feedback would not be twice as long as the other class threads if you had actually revamped radial sweep to be useful, if blazing spears wasn't still derptacular to target in lag, if remembrance didn't lock you in place, if ritual could actually be used as a group heal in combat situations to replace breath of life, and if you didn't intend for every templar to stand inside the tiny ass circle of rune focus. The change I mentioned for remembrance aside, in what way would any of those changes be unbalanced wrobel? We're looking for FIXES to the class, we're not asking for OP buffs.

Eventhough this is just an echo of what basically every proper templar player has been saying on here since the patch hits I feel like I need to quote you and tell you I agree to keep the spirit going, I can't be the only one losing hope here...

Leon119 · February 2016

tinythinker wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

Jaywics wrote: »

Just come right out and say I wasted months of my time and I must now re-roll another class and loss my 289 skill points ffs..

We already WARNED every new Templar approx. 1 year ago NOT TO PLAY this class, in sight of the changes to HP/Blazing shield and the only (real) Group-CC the Templar had (blinding flashes).
So, no excuse sorry. All signs for the Templar's future were already not so positive, so that even a dyslexic ESO player was aware that Templars get beaten (nurfed) patch by patch.

It is too late for excuses now. And everybody who is terrified by this (omg so unexpected) nurf, should keep calm!

So what you are saying is...

Pretty much

as a main healer from early access im switching to sorc and leaving my templar as crafting slave. Which they are horrible at too since no speed buff to move around the crafting stations

blabafat · February 2016

Soris wrote: »

Did some quick testing about champion passives and jab damage, here is the result.
Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%)
Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2181
Burning Light dmg is 2866

Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%) + Tharmaturge 30 points (10.8%)
Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2521
Burning Light is 3129

As a result, as you can see we still have to spread cp into two different trees in order to buff our main dmg ability.
I have not yet tested this in pvp vs players but i believe damage of sweeps can also be reduced by both magic damage and dot dmg reduction passives in red trees as it's already in live since 1.6 released. This should be fixed already.

/gonna test with stamina morph as well.
/same with biting jabs.

@Soris that's actually a buff. It allows us to essentially double the increase in damage from CP than last patch (there are 2 trees that affect jabs now)

Obviously, we only have 501 CP. However, once the CP cap is raised to 600 something, we'll be able to increase our jab damage by 25% and 25%

Zinaroth · February 2016

blabafat wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Did some quick testing about champion passives and jab damage, here is the result.
Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%)
Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2181
Burning Light dmg is 2866

Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%) + Tharmaturge 30 points (10.8%)
Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2521
Burning Light is 3129

As a result, as you can see we still have to spread cp into two different trees in order to buff our main dmg ability.
I have not yet tested this in pvp vs players but i believe damage of sweeps can also be reduced by both magic damage and dot dmg reduction passives in red trees as it's already in live since 1.6 released. This should be fixed already.

/gonna test with stamina morph as well.
/same with biting jabs.

@Soris that's actually a buff. It allows us to essentially double the increase in damage from CP than last patch (there are 2 trees that affect jabs now)

Obviously, we only have 501 CP. However, once the CP cap is raised to 600 something, we'll be able to increase our jab damage by 25% and 25%

Problem being that a DoT orientated champion point passive affects it, but it doesn't count as a DoT effects for other things. While you're right and it certainly is a buff, it is most likely a bug, and overall, speaking in general terms, a little bit more consistency with the game mechanics is needed.

Zheg · February 2016

blabafat wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Did some quick testing about champion passives and jab damage, here is the result.
Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%)
Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2181
Burning Light dmg is 2866

Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%) + Tharmaturge 30 points (10.8%)
Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2521
Burning Light is 3129

As a result, as you can see we still have to spread cp into two different trees in order to buff our main dmg ability.
I have not yet tested this in pvp vs players but i believe damage of sweeps can also be reduced by both magic damage and dot dmg reduction passives in red trees as it's already in live since 1.6 released. This should be fixed already.

/gonna test with stamina morph as well.
/same with biting jabs.

@Soris that's actually a buff. It allows us to essentially double the increase in damage from CP than last patch (there are 2 trees that affect jabs now)

Obviously, we only have 501 CP. However, once the CP cap is raised to 600 something, we'll be able to increase our jab damage by 25% and 25%

Yes and no blab. With cp caps, it's not always that cut and dry. Whatever points go into a second tree to increase base damage are ones you can't put into increasing crit dmg and heals which benefits other skills (or to increase flat healing). Either way, this point is moot, it sounds like thaumaturge isn't actually increasing the damage, just tooltip dmg as a bug from what that start used to do.

bowmanz607 · February 2016

Francescolg wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

The issue is when you have 8 people single targeting one guy that is getting BOL spammed from a templar and the heals outpacing the dps. This is especially true when fighting a templar with BOL. you end up with a raid hammering on one guy spamming bol. One spammable heal should not outheal a group hammering on one guy. that is too much.

Only nuub raids have that problem, as all other (broad majority) use heal-debuffs in PvP and the necessary skills against block+armor spec's (which can't be blocked), before focusing damage.

I do not want to read such comments, that a single player is able to outheal 20 attackers related to a specific defensive build. If you do not know how to combat such builds, you should not post about it but learn how to deal with it.. Plus, all very own templar defenses (blazing shield, blinding flashes, etc. etc.) have been taken away. That is why your comment is non sense!

It is not nonsense it happens on a daily basis. Look at some of Feng rush or sypher videos. Even with healing debuffs etc they can be damn near impossible to bring down. Healers such as kissandra literally just standing there being hammered by half a raid all at once and bol spam out paces all of that dps. Even without healing debuts and what not bol should not out pace the dps of half a raid. Or a player laying on the ground getting burst by 3 or 4 people should not be able to be healed quicker than the dps combos being put out by others because a healer is spamming one ability. Sure maybe it should outpace a single dps maybe. But even when you drop major defile on a player they will get healed quicker with bol then how quick they can be burst down.

You can talk about l2p all you want. Bottom line is the heal from bol was and is op. Reducing the amount of targets does not address this issue. They should keep the target number and tweak the healing. There are plenty of instances and videos out there of the issues I mention. No not every nub templar can do it. But the majority of temp heals can and it is not difficult to achieve nor more then a one button spam to accomplish. Also, you call a LA user a "defensive build"? Interesting.

And why do other skills being needed have anything to do with an argument about bol and why do those nerds make my comment nonsense? We are talking about a specific skill right now. I have zero issue with buffing other skills. Go ahead and do that no problem. In fact I encourage it. That still is no reason to keep bol as is. In fact I would mind increasing the targets hit so long as the healing was reduced.

Zheg · February 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

The issue is when you have 8 people single targeting one guy that is getting BOL spammed from a templar and the heals outpacing the dps. This is especially true when fighting a templar with BOL. you end up with a raid hammering on one guy spamming bol. One spammable heal should not outheal a group hammering on one guy. that is too much.

Only nuub raids have that problem, as all other (broad majority) use heal-debuffs in PvP and the necessary skills against block+armor spec's (which can't be blocked), before focusing damage.

I do not want to read such comments, that a single player is able to outheal 20 attackers related to a specific defensive build. If you do not know how to combat such builds, you should not post about it but learn how to deal with it.. Plus, all very own templar defenses (blazing shield, blinding flashes, etc. etc.) have been taken away. That is why your comment is non sense!

It is not nonsense it happens on a daily basis. Look at some of Feng rush or sypher videos. Even with healing debuffs etc they can be damn near impossible to bring down. Healers such as kissandra literally just standing there being hammered by half a raid all at once and bol spam out paces all of that dps. Even without healing debuts and what not bol should not out pace the dps of half a raid. Or a player laying on the ground getting burst by 3 or 4 people should not be able to be healed quicker than the dps combos being put out by others because a healer is spamming one ability. Sure maybe it should outpace a single dps maybe. But even when you drop major defile on a player they will get healed quicker with bol then how quick they can be burst down.

You can talk about l2p all you want. Bottom line is the heal from bol was and is op. Reducing the amount of targets does not address this issue. They should keep the target number and tweak the healing. There are plenty of instances and videos out there of the issues I mention. No not every nub templar can do it. But the majority of temp heals can and it is not difficult to achieve nor more then a one button spam to accomplish. Also, you call a LA user a "defensive build"? Interesting.

And why do other skills being needed have anything to do with an argument about bol and why do those nerds make my comment nonsense? We are talking about a specific skill right now. I have zero issue with buffing other skills. Go ahead and do that no problem. In fact I encourage it. That still is no reason to keep bol as is. In fact I would mind increasing the targets hit so long as the healing was reduced.

Exaggerate much? Half a raid beating on kissandrea? Decent healer, I've fought her, but in no way does she survive against half a raid of competent players. This is part of the reason why the debate is so absurd, people have unrealistic exaggerations of what can and can't be done with heals, perhaps cherry picked from poor anecdotal evidence.

blabafat · February 2016

Zheg wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Did some quick testing about champion passives and jab damage, here is the result.
Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%)
Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2181
Burning Light dmg is 2866

Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%) + Tharmaturge 30 points (10.8%)
Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2521
Burning Light is 3129

As a result, as you can see we still have to spread cp into two different trees in order to buff our main dmg ability.
I have not yet tested this in pvp vs players but i believe damage of sweeps can also be reduced by both magic damage and dot dmg reduction passives in red trees as it's already in live since 1.6 released. This should be fixed already.

/gonna test with stamina morph as well.
/same with biting jabs.

@Soris that's actually a buff. It allows us to essentially double the increase in damage from CP than last patch (there are 2 trees that affect jabs now)

Obviously, we only have 501 CP. However, once the CP cap is raised to 600 something, we'll be able to increase our jab damage by 25% and 25%

Yes and no blab. With cp caps, it's not always that cut and dry. Whatever points go into a second tree to increase base damage are ones you can't put into increasing crit dmg and heals which benefits other skills (or to increase flat healing). Either way, this point is moot, it sounds like thaumaturge isn't actually increasing the damage, just tooltip dmg as a bug from what that start used to do.

It's definitely increasing the damage on Jabs. I did testing and was trying to figure out how to maximize the damage. Both Ele and Thaum affect it's actual damage.

Increasing base damage is more important than increasing crit damage. Crit damage scales off of base damage. With impen and crit resist running around(and shields), buffing your base damage is far more beneficial, as it increases your crit damage as well. Plus, you won't be reliant on crits

danno8 · February 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

The issue is when you have 8 people single targeting one guy that is getting BOL spammed from a templar and the heals outpacing the dps. This is especially true when fighting a templar with BOL. you end up with a raid hammering on one guy spamming bol. One spammable heal should not outheal a group hammering on one guy. that is too much.

Only nuub raids have that problem, as all other (broad majority) use heal-debuffs in PvP and the necessary skills against block+armor spec's (which can't be blocked), before focusing damage.

I do not want to read such comments, that a single player is able to outheal 20 attackers related to a specific defensive build. If you do not know how to combat such builds, you should not post about it but learn how to deal with it.. Plus, all very own templar defenses (blazing shield, blinding flashes, etc. etc.) have been taken away. That is why your comment is non sense!

It is not nonsense it happens on a daily basis. Look at some of Feng rush or sypher videos. Even with healing debuffs etc they can be damn near impossible to bring down. Healers such as kissandra literally just standing there being hammered by half a raid all at once and bol spam out paces all of that dps. Even without healing debuts and what not bol should not out pace the dps of half a raid. Or a player laying on the ground getting burst by 3 or 4 people should not be able to be healed quicker than the dps combos being put out by others because a healer is spamming one ability. Sure maybe it should outpace a single dps maybe. But even when you drop major defile on a player they will get healed quicker with bol then how quick they can be burst down.

You can talk about l2p all you want. Bottom line is the heal from bol was and is op. Reducing the amount of targets does not address this issue. They should keep the target number and tweak the healing. There are plenty of instances and videos out there of the issues I mention. No not every nub templar can do it. But the majority of temp heals can and it is not difficult to achieve nor more then a one button spam to accomplish. Also, you call a LA user a "defensive build"? Interesting.

And why do other skills being needed have anything to do with an argument about bol and why do those nerds make my comment nonsense? We are talking about a specific skill right now. I have zero issue with buffing other skills. Go ahead and do that no problem. In fact I encourage it. That still is no reason to keep bol as is. In fact I would mind increasing the targets hit so long as the healing was reduced.

In that video with Fengrush, Kissandra is being healed by herself and 5 other Templar in the top level of the tower. This is why people say that LoS was the problem, not the number of players healed.

And BTW Fengrush and his team won that fight, it just took a while, which is really what should be what stands out. He was unhappy it took so long, not that he lost or anything. A whole lot of complaining over nothing.

timidobserver · February 2016

danno8 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

The issue is when you have 8 people single targeting one guy that is getting BOL spammed from a templar and the heals outpacing the dps. This is especially true when fighting a templar with BOL. you end up with a raid hammering on one guy spamming bol. One spammable heal should not outheal a group hammering on one guy. that is too much.

Only nuub raids have that problem, as all other (broad majority) use heal-debuffs in PvP and the necessary skills against block+armor spec's (which can't be blocked), before focusing damage.

I do not want to read such comments, that a single player is able to outheal 20 attackers related to a specific defensive build. If you do not know how to combat such builds, you should not post about it but learn how to deal with it.. Plus, all very own templar defenses (blazing shield, blinding flashes, etc. etc.) have been taken away. That is why your comment is non sense!

It is not nonsense it happens on a daily basis. Look at some of Feng rush or sypher videos. Even with healing debuffs etc they can be damn near impossible to bring down. Healers such as kissandra literally just standing there being hammered by half a raid all at once and bol spam out paces all of that dps. Even without healing debuts and what not bol should not out pace the dps of half a raid. Or a player laying on the ground getting burst by 3 or 4 people should not be able to be healed quicker than the dps combos being put out by others because a healer is spamming one ability. Sure maybe it should outpace a single dps maybe. But even when you drop major defile on a player they will get healed quicker with bol then how quick they can be burst down.

You can talk about l2p all you want. Bottom line is the heal from bol was and is op. Reducing the amount of targets does not address this issue. They should keep the target number and tweak the healing. There are plenty of instances and videos out there of the issues I mention. No not every nub templar can do it. But the majority of temp heals can and it is not difficult to achieve nor more then a one button spam to accomplish. Also, you call a LA user a "defensive build"? Interesting.

And why do other skills being needed have anything to do with an argument about bol and why do those nerds make my comment nonsense? We are talking about a specific skill right now. I have zero issue with buffing other skills. Go ahead and do that no problem. In fact I encourage it. That still is no reason to keep bol as is. In fact I would mind increasing the targets hit so long as the healing was reduced.

In that video with Fengrush, Kissandra is being healed by herself and 5 other Templar in the top level of the tower. This is why people say that LoS was the problem, not the number of players healed.

And BTW Fengrush and his team won that fight, it just took a while, which is really what should be what stands out. He was unhappy it took so long, not that he lost or anything. A whole lot of complaining over nothing.

Nerfrush does not care about logic. Even 5 healers should be inferior to furious WB spam.

bertenburnyb16_ESO · February 2016

Soris wrote: »

Im gonna post this in here too then. You can also check the topic if you like https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245171/sun-shield-radial-sweep-radiant-aura-channeled-focus-healing-ritual
Radiant Ward(morph of sun shield) that 1 percent buff on shield strength for each hit is ludicrous. It is not even the actual shield strength but per hit you take. There has to be bigger buff to actual shield strength for both morphs! Or battle spirit should not include health based shields! Currently what you get from 50k health and 100 points in bastion is only 9k shield in Cyrodiil. That's even lower from maxed out sorc shield. It does not synergise with magicka healing/dps builds due to its health based nature and thus It has to be doubled or added a secondary effect like miss/dodge chance or knockback when explode, whatever but something. Currently it does not fill the role of templar "stand and fight".

Radial Sweep 1 meter increase, total of 6 meter range is still so little for an ultimate. Certain melee skills have 6 to 9 meter range. This skill should have 9 meter range minimum!

Radiant Aura Again, you did the same mistake, this skill's active effect is rendered by potions. Make it a flat percentage instead of major/minor so it may have an actual use finally. This is no brainer at this point, just make it real.

Channeled Focus This has to be mobile buff or vastly increase its radius. The radius is so small to stand inside for whole duration. Either make it share the same radius with cleansing ritual or make it a true mobile buff!

Healing Ritual Even with reduced cast time, a hard casted healing spell in this game means death! This skill should be changed into a hot like mutagen/vigor or maybe a buff that grants dmg reduction or regen or dodge chance, whatever. Until you do that, it will have NO use in any content in this fast paced action game and you know that.

quoted for thruth

myrrrorb14_ESO · February 2016

I think we need to admit that you can't balance PvE and PvP.

It's time we just surgically seperate the two. All abilities should be seperate depending on whether you are in a PvP or PvE area. Make them similar to leveling up an offensive ability in PvP levels up a similarly offensive ability in PvE.

Would probably need skill set saves, but add-ons do that so how hard could it be.

When balancing needs to happen you can focus on adjusting only what needs to be fixed, instead of trying to envision unintended consequences on the other side.

bowmanz607 · February 2016

Zheg wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

The issue is when you have 8 people single targeting one guy that is getting BOL spammed from a templar and the heals outpacing the dps. This is especially true when fighting a templar with BOL. you end up with a raid hammering on one guy spamming bol. One spammable heal should not outheal a group hammering on one guy. that is too much.

Only nuub raids have that problem, as all other (broad majority) use heal-debuffs in PvP and the necessary skills against block+armor spec's (which can't be blocked), before focusing damage.

I do not want to read such comments, that a single player is able to outheal 20 attackers related to a specific defensive build. If you do not know how to combat such builds, you should not post about it but learn how to deal with it.. Plus, all very own templar defenses (blazing shield, blinding flashes, etc. etc.) have been taken away. That is why your comment is non sense!

It is not nonsense it happens on a daily basis. Look at some of Feng rush or sypher videos. Even with healing debuffs etc they can be damn near impossible to bring down. Healers such as kissandra literally just standing there being hammered by half a raid all at once and bol spam out paces all of that dps. Even without healing debuts and what not bol should not out pace the dps of half a raid. Or a player laying on the ground getting burst by 3 or 4 people should not be able to be healed quicker than the dps combos being put out by others because a healer is spamming one ability. Sure maybe it should outpace a single dps maybe. But even when you drop major defile on a player they will get healed quicker with bol then how quick they can be burst down.

You can talk about l2p all you want. Bottom line is the heal from bol was and is op. Reducing the amount of targets does not address this issue. They should keep the target number and tweak the healing. There are plenty of instances and videos out there of the issues I mention. No not every nub templar can do it. But the majority of temp heals can and it is not difficult to achieve nor more then a one button spam to accomplish. Also, you call a LA user a "defensive build"? Interesting.

And why do other skills being needed have anything to do with an argument about bol and why do those nerds make my comment nonsense? We are talking about a specific skill right now. I have zero issue with buffing other skills. Go ahead and do that no problem. In fact I encourage it. That still is no reason to keep bol as is. In fact I would mind increasing the targets hit so long as the healing was reduced.

Exaggerate much? Half a raid beating on kissandrea? Decent healer, I've fought her, but in no way does she survive against half a raid of competent players. This is part of the reason why the debate is so absurd, people have unrealistic exaggerations of what can and can't be done with heals, perhaps cherry picked from poor anecdotal evidence.

No exaggeration sorry. Once again go and look at some of Feng rush videos of him and others hammering on players who are cc but not dropping them because of bol or other instances j have discussed. I would say that Feng rush and the players he runs with are competent players.

Also, as a v4 red guard healer I am able to do all of those things. It takes that many people hammering on me spamming bol to take me down after they finally blow through my stamina and immovable pots they get a chance. But for the duration that I can break free and remain up, which is some time, I can outheal all of them. That is not even properly geared for a healer. That is not even a min max build. I but I guess every time that happens when I heal everyone else is a scrub. Or every time I see that happen whether solo or in a group I and everyone I run with are all scrubs. Yup that's it. Everyone I encounter are scrubs and everyone you encounter is the best at this game. Get real.

Zheg · February 2016

blabafat wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

blabafat wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Did some quick testing about champion passives and jab damage, here is the result.
Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%)
Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2181
Burning Light dmg is 2866

Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%) + Tharmaturge 30 points (10.8%)
Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2521
Burning Light is 3129

As a result, as you can see we still have to spread cp into two different trees in order to buff our main dmg ability.
I have not yet tested this in pvp vs players but i believe damage of sweeps can also be reduced by both magic damage and dot dmg reduction passives in red trees as it's already in live since 1.6 released. This should be fixed already.

/gonna test with stamina morph as well.
/same with biting jabs.

@Soris that's actually a buff. It allows us to essentially double the increase in damage from CP than last patch (there are 2 trees that affect jabs now)

Obviously, we only have 501 CP. However, once the CP cap is raised to 600 something, we'll be able to increase our jab damage by 25% and 25%

Yes and no blab. With cp caps, it's not always that cut and dry. Whatever points go into a second tree to increase base damage are ones you can't put into increasing crit dmg and heals which benefits other skills (or to increase flat healing). Either way, this point is moot, it sounds like thaumaturge isn't actually increasing the damage, just tooltip dmg as a bug from what that start used to do.

It's definitely increasing the damage on Jabs. I did testing and was trying to figure out how to maximize the damage. Both Ele and Thaum affect it's actual damage.

Increasing base damage is more important than increasing crit damage. Crit damage scales off of base damage. With impen and crit resist running around(and shields), buffing your base damage is far more beneficial, as it increases your crit damage as well. Plus, you won't be reliant on crits

Bahh. Previous posts on the other page were confusing then, seemed like someone confirmed it was just tool tip. Anyway, again, yes and no on the CP. If thaumaturge isn't increasing dmg on things like blazing spears or dark flare, the points could be better spent elsewhere. Agreed on the impen making crit dmg less useful, but templar heals don't have that problem, so it can still be a more useful star because it has double benefits. If you're not all that high on crit, 67 points in healing is nothing to sneeze at for a magicka templar either.

Cagro · February 2016

Sun Fire should grant Major Sorcery for 20 seconds. Problem solved.

puffy99 · February 2016

myrrrorb14_ESO wrote: »

I think we need to admit that you can't balance PvE and PvP.

It's time we just surgically seperate the two. All abilities should be seperate depending on whether you are in a PvP or PvE area. Make them similar to leveling up an offensive ability in PvP levels up a similarly offensive ability in PvE.

Would probably need skill set saves, but add-ons do that so how hard could it be.

When balancing needs to happen you can focus on adjusting only what needs to be fixed, instead of trying to envision unintended consequences on the other side.

That is the smartest thing I have read today. Excellent. Yes, this makes sense and how hard can this be when it is a save file or some sort of toggle as you enter into Cyrodill? Hell I would even take a new login if it would allow better balance..

bowmanz607 · February 2016

danno8 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

The issue is when you have 8 people single targeting one guy that is getting BOL spammed from a templar and the heals outpacing the dps. This is especially true when fighting a templar with BOL. you end up with a raid hammering on one guy spamming bol. One spammable heal should not outheal a group hammering on one guy. that is too much.

Only nuub raids have that problem, as all other (broad majority) use heal-debuffs in PvP and the necessary skills against block+armor spec's (which can't be blocked), before focusing damage.

I do not want to read such comments, that a single player is able to outheal 20 attackers related to a specific defensive build. If you do not know how to combat such builds, you should not post about it but learn how to deal with it.. Plus, all very own templar defenses (blazing shield, blinding flashes, etc. etc.) have been taken away. That is why your comment is non sense!

It is not nonsense it happens on a daily basis. Look at some of Feng rush or sypher videos. Even with healing debuffs etc they can be damn near impossible to bring down. Healers such as kissandra literally just standing there being hammered by half a raid all at once and bol spam out paces all of that dps. Even without healing debuts and what not bol should not out pace the dps of half a raid. Or a player laying on the ground getting burst by 3 or 4 people should not be able to be healed quicker than the dps combos being put out by others because a healer is spamming one ability. Sure maybe it should outpace a single dps maybe. But even when you drop major defile on a player they will get healed quicker with bol then how quick they can be burst down.

You can talk about l2p all you want. Bottom line is the heal from bol was and is op. Reducing the amount of targets does not address this issue. They should keep the target number and tweak the healing. There are plenty of instances and videos out there of the issues I mention. No not every nub templar can do it. But the majority of temp heals can and it is not difficult to achieve nor more then a one button spam to accomplish. Also, you call a LA user a "defensive build"? Interesting.

And why do other skills being needed have anything to do with an argument about bol and why do those nerds make my comment nonsense? We are talking about a specific skill right now. I have zero issue with buffing other skills. Go ahead and do that no problem. In fact I encourage it. That still is no reason to keep bol as is. In fact I would mind increasing the targets hit so long as the healing was reduced.

In that video with Fengrush, Kissandra is being healed by herself and 5 other Templar in the top level of the tower. This is why people say that LoS was the problem, not the number of players healed.

And BTW Fengrush and his team won that fight, it just took a while, which is really what should be what stands out. He was unhappy it took so long, not that he lost or anything. A whole lot of complaining over nothing.

I am not talking about a specific fight. One fight doesn't show anything. It is the body of fights that illustrate the pojnt. Yes. I believe Los is an issue. Plenty of times a healer is just hiding and spamming bol. But think about that for a second. Why can a healer just sit behind a wall and spam one ability to heal a few people getting hammered? Beaches bol heals too much. There is no reason to use another heal and be strategic about heals. A healer knows that if they sit behind a wall spamming one ability that that one ability heals will take care of everyone because of how much it heals for. Los is an issue but it is not the only issue. In fact, lowering bol heals would force healers to show themselves for the fight because they will have to combine bol with other heals which it currently does not have to.

Zheg · February 2016

bowmanz607 wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Francescolg wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

The issue is when you have 8 people single targeting one guy that is getting BOL spammed from a templar and the heals outpacing the dps. This is especially true when fighting a templar with BOL. you end up with a raid hammering on one guy spamming bol. One spammable heal should not outheal a group hammering on one guy. that is too much.

Only nuub raids have that problem, as all other (broad majority) use heal-debuffs in PvP and the necessary skills against block+armor spec's (which can't be blocked), before focusing damage.

I do not want to read such comments, that a single player is able to outheal 20 attackers related to a specific defensive build. If you do not know how to combat such builds, you should not post about it but learn how to deal with it.. Plus, all very own templar defenses (blazing shield, blinding flashes, etc. etc.) have been taken away. That is why your comment is non sense!

It is not nonsense it happens on a daily basis. Look at some of Feng rush or sypher videos. Even with healing debuffs etc they can be damn near impossible to bring down. Healers such as kissandra literally just standing there being hammered by half a raid all at once and bol spam out paces all of that dps. Even without healing debuts and what not bol should not out pace the dps of half a raid. Or a player laying on the ground getting burst by 3 or 4 people should not be able to be healed quicker than the dps combos being put out by others because a healer is spamming one ability. Sure maybe it should outpace a single dps maybe. But even when you drop major defile on a player they will get healed quicker with bol then how quick they can be burst down.

You can talk about l2p all you want. Bottom line is the heal from bol was and is op. Reducing the amount of targets does not address this issue. They should keep the target number and tweak the healing. There are plenty of instances and videos out there of the issues I mention. No not every nub templar can do it. But the majority of temp heals can and it is not difficult to achieve nor more then a one button spam to accomplish. Also, you call a LA user a "defensive build"? Interesting.

And why do other skills being needed have anything to do with an argument about bol and why do those nerds make my comment nonsense? We are talking about a specific skill right now. I have zero issue with buffing other skills. Go ahead and do that no problem. In fact I encourage it. That still is no reason to keep bol as is. In fact I would mind increasing the targets hit so long as the healing was reduced.

In that video with Fengrush, Kissandra is being healed by herself and 5 other Templar in the top level of the tower. This is why people say that LoS was the problem, not the number of players healed.

And BTW Fengrush and his team won that fight, it just took a while, which is really what should be what stands out. He was unhappy it took so long, not that he lost or anything. A whole lot of complaining over nothing.

I am not talking about a specific fight. One fight doesn't show anything. It is the body of fights that illustrate the pojnt. Yes. I believe Los is an issue. Plenty of times a healer is just hiding and spamming bol. But think about that for a second. Why can a healer just sit behind a wall and spam one ability to heal a few people getting hammered? Beaches bol heals too much. There is no reason to use another heal and be strategic about heals. A healer knows that if they sit behind a wall spamming one ability that that one ability heals will take care of everyone because of how much it heals for. Los is an issue but it is not the only issue. In fact, lowering bol heals would force healers to show themselves for the fight because they will have to combine bol with other heals which it currently does not have to.

There are literally only so many places you can 'hide' in a keep and outpost, and most are quite obvious. If you're open field and you can't see/realize there's a healer behind a tree/rock, well, you're not as good a pvper as you think you are. It's pretty obvious when someone that you're fighting is being healed with BoL, if your dps aren't smart enough to grab the healer, well...

The entire silly thread on LoS was about a tower fight. If healers are on upper floors healing, here's a thought, maybe don't stand in oil and fight on the first floor and instead go pressure the healers. If the healers are outside the tower healing, well, at that point you're trying to farm, in which case 1- it shouldn't be encouraged, and 2- stealth, drop down and bomb the door as the main force pushes inside the tower and now you can wipe their healers.