ATTN: ZOS ~~Mega Post of Issues with the Game and its Current Problems with Balance!!!

kaithuzar

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

You people and your Ambush nerf bandwagon's....

Can we at least wait till mini-stun's on all gap closer's are addressed?

Currently people who spam ambush can mini stun you and you cant do anything. This is not the skill's fault... once gap closer's are fixed you should be fine. The 1 second Immobilize and no minimum distance is what's unique about nightblade's gap closer.

The problem is the mini-stun's on all gap closer's.


Why don't people ask to buff DK chain's?

This is technically the Dk gap closer/chain pull but it's not working correctly and grants the enemy cc immunity. If this was fixed it would be a great skill.


How about Templar's class gap closer?

This is also broken.


How about we fix class gap closer's and mini stun's being broken on all gap closer's before accusing ambush.


So many people asking for class balance and all this garbage when there's a TON of broken skill's and bug's. You can't balance around this until it's fixed.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but feel compelled to reply.

The devs are addressing the gap closer root. Universally, all gap closers reduce the targets speed by 100% for (I believe) 1 second. They have said they are considering reducing this amount of time. Please let's not let this issue muddy the waters when discussing Ambush. Even if the devs do change the snare (reduced movement speed) time of universal gap closers, it will likely have no effect on Ambush.

I have never been one to get on the nerf bandwagon. I will never ask for a nerf. I will however agree with those that are calling for a minimum distance to cast Ambush. All other gap closers have them...why not Ambush. It is a bit silly that any monkey can one-button the controller and perma stun a target. Yes, you can defend against this if you are 1v1, but if you have two NBs doing this, or a NB and any other class attacking you at the same time, you will be perma stunned with zero chance to defend yourself. Now, I do not mind the 1 second stun being part of the skill, tho I do think CC immunity needs to be fixed, and in doing so, would render the spam less controversial. However, by making this skill a minimum distance cast, it would simply function as it is intended to. Which, frankly, I don't see an issue with. Any decent player would say Ambush spammers are garbage...thus they use the skill to close gap then use other skills for the fight. If they must cloak away, then they do so, get their range, and Ambush back in. The only players that would complain if Ambush were given a minimum cast distance are those that rely on spamming the skill. And to these players, it truly is a L2P issue. Adding the min distance would not change anything for good players. It would merely force garbage spammers to learn to actually play the class.

My vote on the distance of ambush is that it should be the same distance as streak.
Almost nobody spams ambush in a 1v1 scenario, it's completely to pull the person out of stealth (nb's or ppl using stealth pots) & it's a completely viable method for doing so. It's a gap closer, the entire point is to keep up with your opponent when they are on the run. If you want to dodge all of my other attacks by dodge rolling away so I can't hit you, that's what I'm going to use to actually hit you. It's no different than combo'ing the bow ability to put distance & crit rush; rinse & repeat.
I don't care about the mini-stun thing ZOS can take that away.

SirDopey

kaithuzar wrote: »

Refuse2GrowUp wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

You people and your Ambush nerf bandwagon's....

Can we at least wait till mini-stun's on all gap closer's are addressed?

Currently people who spam ambush can mini stun you and you cant do anything. This is not the skill's fault... once gap closer's are fixed you should be fine. The 1 second Immobilize and no minimum distance is what's unique about nightblade's gap closer.

The problem is the mini-stun's on all gap closer's.


Why don't people ask to buff DK chain's?

This is technically the Dk gap closer/chain pull but it's not working correctly and grants the enemy cc immunity. If this was fixed it would be a great skill.


How about Templar's class gap closer?

This is also broken.


How about we fix class gap closer's and mini stun's being broken on all gap closer's before accusing ambush.


So many people asking for class balance and all this garbage when there's a TON of broken skill's and bug's. You can't balance around this until it's fixed.

I don't want to hijack this thread, but feel compelled to reply.

The devs are addressing the gap closer root. Universally, all gap closers reduce the targets speed by 100% for (I believe) 1 second. They have said they are considering reducing this amount of time. Please let's not let this issue muddy the waters when discussing Ambush. Even if the devs do change the snare (reduced movement speed) time of universal gap closers, it will likely have no effect on Ambush.

I have never been one to get on the nerf bandwagon. I will never ask for a nerf. I will however agree with those that are calling for a minimum distance to cast Ambush. All other gap closers have them...why not Ambush. It is a bit silly that any monkey can one-button the controller and perma stun a target. Yes, you can defend against this if you are 1v1, but if you have two NBs doing this, or a NB and any other class attacking you at the same time, you will be perma stunned with zero chance to defend yourself. Now, I do not mind the 1 second stun being part of the skill, tho I do think CC immunity needs to be fixed, and in doing so, would render the spam less controversial. However, by making this skill a minimum distance cast, it would simply function as it is intended to. Which, frankly, I don't see an issue with. Any decent player would say Ambush spammers are garbage...thus they use the skill to close gap then use other skills for the fight. If they must cloak away, then they do so, get their range, and Ambush back in. The only players that would complain if Ambush were given a minimum cast distance are those that rely on spamming the skill. And to these players, it truly is a L2P issue. Adding the min distance would not change anything for good players. It would merely force garbage spammers to learn to actually play the class.

My vote on the distance of ambush is that it should be the same distance as streak.
Almost nobody spams ambush in a 1v1 scenario, it's completely to pull the person out of stealth (nb's or ppl using stealth pots) & it's a completely viable method for doing so. It's a gap closer, the entire point is to keep up with your opponent when they are on the run. If you want to dodge all of my other attacks by dodge rolling away so I can't hit you, that's what I'm going to use to actually hit you. It's no different than combo'ing the bow ability to put distance & crit rush; rinse & repeat.
I don't care about the mini-stun thing ZOS can take that away.

What most people are saying here is that it should have a minimum distance between the NB and their target for it to work, so if for instance you're standing right on top of the person it won't work - which is how most offensive gap closers in the game work. The idea being, after you used it the first time, you'll have to put some distance between yourself and your target before you can use it again. I don't think anyone is calling for the actual range of the ability to be changed, this will stop people from just spamming ambush over and over and over....

Zinaroth

SirDopey wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

I admire the time and effort put into this and there's a lot of good observations and points being made. However some of the conclusions are way off, and display lack of knowledge in certain area. I am on my phone so I will just cover two of my primary concerns:

If you guys are competing for leaderboards in trials surely you understand how much magicka is reigning supreme on DPS meters at the moment compared to stamina, yet you're advocating buffs to magicka?

I think you're underestimating how dire a situation Templars, and especially Stamplars, are in atm when it comes to PvP. Don't see how these proposed class changes will help them much, and can't help to feel your aim here is to homogenize the classes, which would be a bad idea.

@Nifty2g I see you once again advocating Templars are fine and that DKs have been destroyed as a class. Are you completely oblivious to how poor a state Stamplars are in atm, and how Stamina DKs are the kings in 1v1? Overall you're still better off playing a DK whether you want to; DPS, 1v1, 1vX or tank. The only job a Templar excels in compared to the DK is healing, and that is obviously as magicka. Let me make a quick comparison herr so we don't confuse apples and oranges.
1v1: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar > Mag DK
1vX: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Mag DK > Stam Templar
DPS: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Tank: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Healing: Mag Templar > Mag DK
This is how the two classes compare in performance at the moment. This is the generally accepted truth withing the PvE and PvP communities at the moment.
How in all of Tamriel does this lead you to conclude that Templars are mostly fine and that DKs are ruined?
I think you need to reevalute your thought process along with the people in this thread who agreed with you.
Sorry for the direct approach but I am reading a lot of your misinformation on threads around on these forums in regards to how *** DKs are and how Templars are fine, neither of them obviously are fine at the moment compared to NBs and Sorcs, but you're still better off atm if you rolled a DK unless you're planning on going full healbot mode. That statement is irrefutably true, and everyone here knows it.

I'll 1 v 1 a stamina DK any day, absolutely my LEAST feared class when I'm on my Templars (Magic & Stam). Please don't use "everyone here knows it" because not everyone's going to agree with your sentiments. Templars are fine, if you're not familiar playing stamina builds, then its one build to stay away from. I haven't logged onto my DK in over a month because both of my templars out perform it.

Please. I have been maining a single class since launch, and that is my Templar. I am in Hodor. Don't condescend me.

Ask around in ANY dueling guild or any high profile streamer who knows what he is talking about. Stamins DKs are THE 1v1 build at the moment. I am not going to question whether you can take down a Stamina DK, but it must not have been in a dueling session and he must not have been very good. Your LEAST feared class? So now you're also saying implicit that Mag DKs are better than Stam DKs? The rankings I put up are not my own opinion, they are not up for debate. They are the truth. Everyone who is something in this community or has deeper knowledge OR atleast talks with other people from time to time within the top of PvE and PvP will know that what I stated is the general concensus. Now if you're going to go ahead and claim that you know better than the best duelers and raiding guilds from the EU megaserver then that is your business, but that is a very bold statement.

LEAST FEARED CLASS. I see a DK I charge into it. Simple. Period. Can not explain it any better. If you would like me to show you how to contend with DK's feel free to jump onto the NA server and come find me, more than willing to show you

Sure in that case it is also my least feared class, but that is because I feel I can control the incoming damage much better, especially from magicka based DKs. NBs and Sorcs tend to die faster, but they can also kill me faster. But this does not change the fact that Stamina DKs are still the top contender for 1v1 scenarios. But even IF we took that away from the DK class, the prioritation list I made would still heavily favour DKs. All I am saying here is that DKs aren't as broken as people say they are, they are looking at them in the light of 1.5 and prior and comparing them from back then. Back then they were insane, and rightfully got nerfed. Now they are suffering a big, just like Templars are. Both classes need some work. It is not a case of DKs being ruined and Templars being just fine. That is why I made my original comment, which was aimed at someone else, not you. But it is ofcourse fair enough that you felt like chiming in with your opinion, even if it isn't the whole truth.

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Zinaroth Stam DKs are the #1 1v1 when it comes to utilizing block casting reverb/piece or ransack/into bash.
"everyone" doesn't agree with your statement. Stam DKs aside from the reverb move set mainly rely on wrecking blow for DPS.
I've only played DK and as a stam DK NBs are the most annoying to fight as all they do is cloak/teleport out of AoE and range you down. Sorry mate I can't keep my wings up too long especially when the damage mitigation reflect is 100% useless thanks to cloak.

Nothing wrong with utilizing a skill outside your class tree when it comes to a single or two specific purposes, DKs have a lot of awesome class skills they utilizie aswell, do you know how many class skills a Stamplar uses? Two! DKs are far better off in this aspect.

Ofcourse NBs are annoying, they are for everyone. I never claimed Stam DKs could just walk over every class and build, but it is still the top contender for 1v1 scenarios like I said before.

As I mentioned above, even if we took that away from Stam DKs, a picture is still painted where Templars and DKs need help alike, and not a picture where DKs are ruined and Templars are fine.

If you rolled a DK you are still better off than if you rolled a Templar, unless you want to full time heal, taken into consideration the posibilities for both magicka and stamina within the two classes.

Artjuh90

reflect back melee back aka WB, Let the phoenix aka DK rise again LAWL.
don't agree with alot of those changes, it would change class identity as a whole ...
just having one abilty define your class what a joke

Barlthump

NVNiko wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno

These are the collaborative opinions of the guild "M12", not a single streamer or 1 v X'r such as Fengrush, Sypher, or King Richard. We should be focusing on the opinions to the Majority of ESO players and just one field of Gameplay. M12 is a community of 500 "Active" guild members on the AD NA server most of which have been known to top the Leaderboards in both PVE and PVP content over the duration from the game from beta until today. We have been quiet for awhile but it's time for our voice to be heard and answered from ZOS and the community and this is the reason for this post.


Class Abilities

Chart describing imbalances between classes >https://www.dropbox.com/s/bnc7qpewlgwy7pk/ESO balance.docx?dl=0
(Great chart submitted by @GreyBrow )





The important thing to keep in mind is that these changes only require the modification of 15 skills. Each class ahs 15 skills iwth two possible morph choices, which provides 30 different options. If these changes were implemented, it would allow for the possibility of each class to have access to the same BASIC skill set, while still providing unique class identity through the remaining 15 morph options, ultimates, passives, itemization, armor type and weapon skill lines. Clearly, this is the most logical approach to solving the problems of class balance, at least initially, eliminating the QQ that "this or that is OP" while still allowing for class identity and satisfying the issue of class equality and "play how you want"

--Major Resolve needs to be uniform across all classes, specifically the nightblade and the templar which should be able to ingnite the Major resolve buff comparable to the way Dragon Knights and Sorcerer's can.

--Every class should have an intant-cast skill that does immediate damage on cast. Specifically the Sorcerer which has no instant cast abilities that do damage on cast comparable to flame whip, funnel health, surprise attack, or puncturing sweep. Instead Sorcs have to rely on force pulse where the other classes do not.

--Templars need a hard crowd control ability comparable to the other classes. Certain primary class abilities should be uniform across all classes.
Shields

- Every Class should have the ability to play as a DPS, Tank or Healer comparably as envisioned by Zenimax's original game model. Certain classes should have certain advantages and disadvantages when it comes to each role of the game: Tanking, Damage dealing, and healing. And at the same time be able to have similar mitigation, dps, and heals

- Magicka and Stamina users should have separate morphs in class trees this way stamina and magicka users have equal opportunities when creating build and not being penalized for being a magicka or stamina user. Each user should have equal opportunities in thier style of play.

OverFlow Damage-"Damage shields in ESO absorb unmitigated damage (don't factor in armor, spell resist, etc). If a player has 1k damage left on their shield, but is facing an incoming attack dealing 10k unmitigated damage, the shield will absorb that 1k while the remaining 9k hits the player directly without factoring in their armor, spell resist, etc. This is not something players can affect (e.g. by relogging) but is how damage shields work in the game. Best way around is to spam your damage shields so they are always refreshed. For the same reason, the damage shield glyphs on weapons are terrible choices because it will likely cause you to take more damage rather than less since the shield is so small virtually any incoming attack will go through mostly unmitigated."

Players want the ability to crit against shields and proc specific class dps passives (*Burning Light) against shields, if this is the case shields need to be buffed in someway to compensate for the extra damage from the crits and procs, maybe a 75% shield in pvp.
http://gamerelated.info/2015/08/25/elder-scrolls-online-long-standing-bugsissues-that-all-players-should-be-aware-of/


Magicka VS Stamina Imbalances

Light Armor Vs Medium Armor - Besides the differences in actual physical armor the passives each type of armor get are not even comparable. The Agility passive gives 12% more weapon damage where the Concentration passive only gets 4884 Spell Penetraion. The Concentration passive needs to get buffed by offering more Penetration or Spell Damage

Spell Damage Vs Weapon Damage - More or less Weapon damage users have about 1000 more raw damage over magicka builds. This is a huge imbalance especially when it comes to aoe's that have more range

Elemental Ring Vs Steel Tornado - Steel Tornado has a range of 12.5 meters which actually hits for 490 square meters and Elemental Ring has a range of 6 meters which hits at 113 sq meters. The imbalance in range and coupled with the imbalance in raw damage makes magicka users half as effective than stamina users in aoe situations. Besides that Stamina users also get there damaged buffed by the ruffian passive as well as the Duel Weld execute while while both morphs of elemental ring get purged!!

Flawless Dawnbreaker - 8% more raw damage for Stamina users where Magicka users have no equivalent that comes close to this. This skill needs to be changed or give something comparable to magicka users.


Champion Points
Spell Damage Mitigation VS Physical Damage Mitigation - We have 2 perks that mitigate spell damage which are Elemental Defender and Hardy. But when it comes to physical mitigation we only have the armor perks which gives us diminished returns specifically on light armor/magicka users

Great read mate. But I've seen so many pointers but can we also point out that most class abilities only have a magicka morph which narrows down the builds stam classes take? Also it would be nice if some of the class ultimates could do physical damage (of course after what you suggest are implemented that is) the 8% from flawless is great but we should also take into consideration that it does magical damage which at this point is quite bad. I'm not saying that it doesn't do enough damage though. But if the cp tree gets changed most physical damage will get mitigated the same way and it's much more easier to hit 40k magicka compared to stamina. Sadly I have no idea why. But whatever you suggested is great. If the ZoS team does look into it we can expect to see a much more balanced gameplay but soon we will notice stam classes falling off just cause of the changes to the mitigation from CP.

ADarklore

What I find interesting about this chart is that, from the NB perspective, it is almost completely from a STAMINA argument. Because NB DOES have self-heals; Strife, and Drain Power's Magicka morph Sap Essence.

It also is interesting that the OP only mentions morphs when it suits his argument... but since not every ability/morph benefits every build (Magicka vs Stamina)... some of this is already moot. It should, instead come from, or at least include, a point about the disparity between Stamina morphs and Magicka morphs.

Detector

NVNiko wrote: »

Spell Damage Vs Weapon Damage - More or less Weapon damage users have about 1000 more raw damage over magicka builds. blablabla

1) Magicka-builds can have 45k magicka (vs 38k stamina).
2) All ultimate - magic damage. Stamina-builds need more CP for strong ultimate.
3) magicka-absorb-shieds more strong vs stamina-absorb-shields.
4) L2P

Tankqull

Detector wrote: »

NVNiko wrote: »

Spell Damage Vs Weapon Damage - More or less Weapon damage users have about 1000 more raw damage over magicka builds. blablabla

1) Magicka-builds can have 45k magicka (vs 38k stamina).
2) All ultimate - magic damage. Stamina-builds need more CP for strong ultimate.
3) magicka-absorb-shieds more strong vs stamina-absorb-shields.
4) L2P

well 1spell/weapon dmg equals ~10 stat values and with flawless dawnbreaker stamina builds have 8% more permanent dmg on top of that
not all ulties are magical, dragon leap is physical even though it affects only DKs (but just for being some smartypants :P)
actually stamina shields are stronger as they do not negate your armor dmg reduction and thus cover more attacks per activation than magica shields (including hardend ward)

LorDrek

Tankqull wrote: »

Detector wrote: »

NVNiko wrote: »

Spell Damage Vs Weapon Damage - More or less Weapon damage users have about 1000 more raw damage over magicka builds. blablabla

1) Magicka-builds can have 45k magicka (vs 38k stamina).
2) All ultimate - magic damage. Stamina-builds need more CP for strong ultimate.
3) magicka-absorb-shieds more strong vs stamina-absorb-shields.
4) L2P

well 1spell/weapon dmg equals ~10 stat values and with flawless dawnbreaker stamina builds have 8% more permanent dmg on top of that
not all ulties are magical, dragon leap is physical even though it affects only DKs (but just for being some smartypants :P)
actually stamina shields are stronger as they do not negate your armor dmg reduction and thus cover more attacks per activation than magica shields (including hardend ward)

Hahaha use dragon leap to burst dmg, use overload what is better? Overload with malag kena permanent burst dmg.

Icy_Nelyan

Just to add my two cents to the already insightful open post about heavy Attacks

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/241206/suggestion-new-statistic-haste#latest

One thread I opened to give a simple suggestion to fix how heavy Attacks are seen now (prety much useless)

babedenny

While I agree there are some imbalances, I also don't want to see the classes become like NASCAR, where every car/class is the same weight, horsepower, shape, only with different paint jobs, going around in circles. Some people like that. I would find that incredibly boring.

Edit: not trolling NASCAR fans, just don't want to see the game go that direction.

Ffastyl

There is a disturbing lack of heavy armor mentioned in your guild's post. I feel like my breed is going extinct.

ADarklore

I also think that the racial passives need serious attention. Having only THREE races out of 10 with Magicka passives while five have Stamina passives. Who cares about 'lore' when it makes the game itself imbalanced.

Nifty2g

@ZOS_GinaBruno @wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert
We need a Racial Passive to increase your Magic Damage.
The current passives exclude Templars and Nightblades - Apart from Max Magic Passives.

tangy.citrus

This is all for pvp players. what about pve? [snip]

[Inappropriate language removed]

code65536

Nifty2g wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno @wrobel @ZOS_RichLambert
We need a Racial Passive to increase your Magic Damage.
The current passives exclude Templars and Nightblades - Apart from Max Magic Passives.

Yea, that would be good. Replace the Breton 3% cost reduction (so pitifully low) with 4% Magic Damage, in line with the Altmer's 4% Elemental Damage.

TotterTates

Zinaroth wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

I admire the time and effort put into this and there's a lot of good observations and points being made. However some of the conclusions are way off, and display lack of knowledge in certain area. I am on my phone so I will just cover two of my primary concerns:

If you guys are competing for leaderboards in trials surely you understand how much magicka is reigning supreme on DPS meters at the moment compared to stamina, yet you're advocating buffs to magicka?

I think you're underestimating how dire a situation Templars, and especially Stamplars, are in atm when it comes to PvP. Don't see how these proposed class changes will help them much, and can't help to feel your aim here is to homogenize the classes, which would be a bad idea.

@Nifty2g I see you once again advocating Templars are fine and that DKs have been destroyed as a class. Are you completely oblivious to how poor a state Stamplars are in atm, and how Stamina DKs are the kings in 1v1? Overall you're still better off playing a DK whether you want to; DPS, 1v1, 1vX or tank. The only job a Templar excels in compared to the DK is healing, and that is obviously as magicka. Let me make a quick comparison herr so we don't confuse apples and oranges.
1v1: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar > Mag DK
1vX: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Mag DK > Stam Templar
DPS: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Tank: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Healing: Mag Templar > Mag DK
This is how the two classes compare in performance at the moment. This is the generally accepted truth withing the PvE and PvP communities at the moment.
How in all of Tamriel does this lead you to conclude that Templars are mostly fine and that DKs are ruined?
I think you need to reevalute your thought process along with the people in this thread who agreed with you.
Sorry for the direct approach but I am reading a lot of your misinformation on threads around on these forums in regards to how *** DKs are and how Templars are fine, neither of them obviously are fine at the moment compared to NBs and Sorcs, but you're still better off atm if you rolled a DK unless you're planning on going full healbot mode. That statement is irrefutably true, and everyone here knows it.

I'll 1 v 1 a stamina DK any day, absolutely my LEAST feared class when I'm on my Templars (Magic & Stam). Please don't use "everyone here knows it" because not everyone's going to agree with your sentiments. Templars are fine, if you're not familiar playing stamina builds, then its one build to stay away from. I haven't logged onto my DK in over a month because both of my templars out perform it.

Please. I have been maining a single class since launch, and that is my Templar. I am in Hodor. Don't condescend me.

Ask around in ANY dueling guild or any high profile streamer who knows what he is talking about. Stamins DKs are THE 1v1 build at the moment. I am not going to question whether you can take down a Stamina DK, but it must not have been in a dueling session and he must not have been very good. Your LEAST feared class? So now you're also saying implicit that Mag DKs are better than Stam DKs? The rankings I put up are not my own opinion, they are not up for debate. They are the truth. Everyone who is something in this community or has deeper knowledge OR atleast talks with other people from time to time within the top of PvE and PvP will know that what I stated is the general concensus. Now if you're going to go ahead and claim that you know better than the best duelers and raiding guilds from the EU megaserver then that is your business, but that is a very bold statement.

Please remember everyone is entitled to their opinions, regardless of which guild they are in.

Like you, I have mained a single class since release (DK), but I also have a v16 Templar, v16 Sorc, and v16 NB.

Both Templars and DKs have been destroyed by nerfs over numerous patches. (It's a little silly to engage in a pissing contest on who is the most handicapped.)

Nifty2g

Zinaroth wrote: »

@Nifty2g I see you once again advocating Templars are fine and that DKs have been destroyed as a class. Are you completely oblivious to how poor a state Stamplars are in atm, and how Stamina DKs are the kings in 1v1? Overall you're still better off playing a DK whether you want to; DPS, 1v1, 1vX or tank. The only job a Templar excels in compared to the DK is healing, and that is obviously as magicka. Let me make a quick comparison herr so we don't confuse apples and oranges.
1v1: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar > Mag DK
1vX: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Mag DK > Stam Templar
DPS: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Tank: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Healing: Mag Templar > Mag DK
This is how the two classes compare in performance at the moment. This is the generally accepted truth withing the PvE and PvP communities at the moment.
How in all of Tamriel does this lead you to conclude that Templars are mostly fine and that DKs are ruined?
I think you need to reevalute your thought process along with the people in this thread who agreed with you.
Sorry for the direct approach but I am reading a lot of your misinformation on threads around on these forums in regards to how *** DKs are and how Templars are fine, neither of them obviously are fine at the moment compared to NBs and Sorcs, but you're still better off atm if you rolled a DK unless you're planning on going full healbot mode. That statement is irrefutably true, and everyone here knows it.

You seem to very misunderstand me, and it just sounds like you're wanting to make the class very overpowered, let me guess you main and play only a Templar? I play every class but main a Templar I can see the weaknesses with the class and the strengths. There are a lot of weaknesses I posted my thoughts on the class in the Templar issues thread which I will put a spoiler in here

Nifty2g wrote: »

Hey thanks for tagging me in here
Because my reply is going to be fairly large I want you to have a read @ZOS_GinaBruno or point someone to this post. I posted In @wrobel thread but I believe that was skipped over and missed out on their meeting unfortunately, because this is a fresh thread I'll share some more insight.

First off guys, lets not say skills are useless, they have uses but have been cut down due to constant exploiting, ZOS for the most part don't know how to deal with this so they make changes to defeat the exploits which dulls down the use of the said ability, that being said I will contribute my thoughts.

Secondly I want to stress that I am not asking for Templars to be incredibly overpowered, I'm asking for fixes to make the class how it used to be, this class was the most diverse in ESO, since then we are taking nerfs for absolutely no reason. In short, ZOS you are slowly making this diverse class very linear. You need to stop, when something is being exploited, fix the thing being exploited not destroy the class synergy.

Adjusting Templar Skills
1a) Vampires Bane: This right now is on my top priority list because this skill deals Fire Damage whereas the whole Templar toolkit is Magic Damage, this needs to be adjusted accordingly as it is a strong DoT and Templar's don't exactly get a use out of Damage over Time effects but this would bring the class up to where others are on a competitive standpoint.

1b) Javelin: This skill needs a complete overhaul maybe remove it similar to Blinding Flashes, maybe we could see a unique Extended Chains type skill for a Templar using the divine light to pull an enemy to you. Anything you do to this current skill's state will be completely subpar and not used by most Templars mainly because our main attack Puncturing Sweeps/Biting Jabs causes CC immunity and is a Melee damaging skill, this is designed to be a ranged attack - a very weak one at that.

1c) Puncturing Sweeps: This attack needs to be able to critically heal - with an ICD on the critical chance

1d) Breath of Life: This skill was amazing, you need to bring back the instant cast/heal on this, telling us to "anticipate damage" just doesn't work in a dynamic playing environment, it also seems like you guys didn't want to take the time to fix the skill up.

1e) Blazing Shield / Sun Shield: This was being largely exploited in Cyrodill by a lot of players, especially Emperors, this skill was looked at and changed very badly in a quick rush what it seems like it. Blazing Shield should have had the damage dealt reduced and stronger shield. Sun Shield should also deal less damage and the shield strength should be increased as it is right now this shield is a pity excuse for a shield, it doesn't do anything and the time it is active is very little. We have no defense as it stands right now. This needs to be adjusted, the shield strength has to be increased and damage reduced. That would be the perfect fix for this, we don't rely on a shield doing damage, we rely on shields to soak up damage.

1f) Toppling Charge: As stated this skill is working very oddly.

Adjusting Templar Passives
2a) Balanced Warrior: This increases your Spell Resistance and Weapon Damage - seeing as it's name is Balanced Warrior can we also add Spell Damage and Physical Resistance to the mix as well?

2b) Mending: I just wanted to bring this up again I know it will most likely be on the ignore list, but we are Templars, we are healers that is the main point of the class, to have stronger heals. This passive needs to apply to the overall class and any healing ability. Regardless, it was not unbalanced it also gave Templars a good use in groups, I'm seeing less and less of them.

Adjusting Templar Ultimates
3a) Crescent Sweep: This would possibly the most unused skill in all of ESO, this skill needs to be changed to act similar to Soul Harvest where it grants additional ultimate or a damage increase on effected targets.

That's all I have for now guys, I hope ZOS reads this and makes these changes to the class it would be great.

Also, just because Stamina Dragonknights are good doesn't mean that Magicka Dragonknights are.

1v1: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar > Mag DK
1vX: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Mag DK > Stam Templar
DPS: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Tank: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Healing: Mag Templar > Mag DK

This little chart is made up from your opinion and those players around you, not based on the whole game. I disagree with a lot of it

Zinaroth

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

@Nifty2g I see you once again advocating Templars are fine and that DKs have been destroyed as a class. Are you completely oblivious to how poor a state Stamplars are in atm, and how Stamina DKs are the kings in 1v1? Overall you're still better off playing a DK whether you want to; DPS, 1v1, 1vX or tank. The only job a Templar excels in compared to the DK is healing, and that is obviously as magicka. Let me make a quick comparison herr so we don't confuse apples and oranges.
1v1: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar > Mag DK
1vX: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Mag DK > Stam Templar
DPS: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Tank: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Healing: Mag Templar > Mag DK
This is how the two classes compare in performance at the moment. This is the generally accepted truth withing the PvE and PvP communities at the moment.
How in all of Tamriel does this lead you to conclude that Templars are mostly fine and that DKs are ruined?
I think you need to reevalute your thought process along with the people in this thread who agreed with you.
Sorry for the direct approach but I am reading a lot of your misinformation on threads around on these forums in regards to how *** DKs are and how Templars are fine, neither of them obviously are fine at the moment compared to NBs and Sorcs, but you're still better off atm if you rolled a DK unless you're planning on going full healbot mode. That statement is irrefutably true, and everyone here knows it.

You seem to very misunderstand me, and it just sounds like you're wanting to make the class very overpowered, let me guess you main and play only a Templar? I play every class but main a Templar I can see the weaknesses with the class and the strengths. There are a lot of weaknesses I posted my thoughts on the class in the Templar issues thread which I will put a spoiler in here

Nifty2g wrote: »

Hey thanks for tagging me in here
Because my reply is going to be fairly large I want you to have a read @ZOS_GinaBruno or point someone to this post. I posted In @wrobel thread but I believe that was skipped over and missed out on their meeting unfortunately, because this is a fresh thread I'll share some more insight.

First off guys, lets not say skills are useless, they have uses but have been cut down due to constant exploiting, ZOS for the most part don't know how to deal with this so they make changes to defeat the exploits which dulls down the use of the said ability, that being said I will contribute my thoughts.

Secondly I want to stress that I am not asking for Templars to be incredibly overpowered, I'm asking for fixes to make the class how it used to be, this class was the most diverse in ESO, since then we are taking nerfs for absolutely no reason. In short, ZOS you are slowly making this diverse class very linear. You need to stop, when something is being exploited, fix the thing being exploited not destroy the class synergy.

Adjusting Templar Skills
1a) Vampires Bane: This right now is on my top priority list because this skill deals Fire Damage whereas the whole Templar toolkit is Magic Damage, this needs to be adjusted accordingly as it is a strong DoT and Templar's don't exactly get a use out of Damage over Time effects but this would bring the class up to where others are on a competitive standpoint.

1b) Javelin: This skill needs a complete overhaul maybe remove it similar to Blinding Flashes, maybe we could see a unique Extended Chains type skill for a Templar using the divine light to pull an enemy to you. Anything you do to this current skill's state will be completely subpar and not used by most Templars mainly because our main attack Puncturing Sweeps/Biting Jabs causes CC immunity and is a Melee damaging skill, this is designed to be a ranged attack - a very weak one at that.

1c) Puncturing Sweeps: This attack needs to be able to critically heal - with an ICD on the critical chance

1d) Breath of Life: This skill was amazing, you need to bring back the instant cast/heal on this, telling us to "anticipate damage" just doesn't work in a dynamic playing environment, it also seems like you guys didn't want to take the time to fix the skill up.

1e) Blazing Shield / Sun Shield: This was being largely exploited in Cyrodill by a lot of players, especially Emperors, this skill was looked at and changed very badly in a quick rush what it seems like it. Blazing Shield should have had the damage dealt reduced and stronger shield. Sun Shield should also deal less damage and the shield strength should be increased as it is right now this shield is a pity excuse for a shield, it doesn't do anything and the time it is active is very little. We have no defense as it stands right now. This needs to be adjusted, the shield strength has to be increased and damage reduced. That would be the perfect fix for this, we don't rely on a shield doing damage, we rely on shields to soak up damage.

1f) Toppling Charge: As stated this skill is working very oddly.

Adjusting Templar Passives
2a) Balanced Warrior: This increases your Spell Resistance and Weapon Damage - seeing as it's name is Balanced Warrior can we also add Spell Damage and Physical Resistance to the mix as well?

2b) Mending: I just wanted to bring this up again I know it will most likely be on the ignore list, but we are Templars, we are healers that is the main point of the class, to have stronger heals. This passive needs to apply to the overall class and any healing ability. Regardless, it was not unbalanced it also gave Templars a good use in groups, I'm seeing less and less of them.

Adjusting Templar Ultimates
3a) Crescent Sweep: This would possibly the most unused skill in all of ESO, this skill needs to be changed to act similar to Soul Harvest where it grants additional ultimate or a damage increase on effected targets.

That's all I have for now guys, I hope ZOS reads this and makes these changes to the class it would be great.

Also, just because Stamina Dragonknights are good doesn't mean that Magicka Dragonknights are.

1v1: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar > Mag DK
1vX: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Mag DK > Stam Templar
DPS: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Tank: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Healing: Mag Templar > Mag DK

This little chart is made up from your opinion and those players around you, not based on the whole game. I disagree with a lot of it

Maybe I misunderstand you, and maybe you also realize how Templars need a buff, but I am certainly not wanting the class to become OP, and no I play several other classes I just didn't list every character I have on the forums. Taken all this in mind though then I don't understand why you basically said this earlier in the thread:

Nifty2g wrote: »

Templars are fine, however sweeps needs to be buffed the damage is not extreme and should take into consideration of it being a cone attack. We need to be able to Critical hit shields, not being able to negates a lot of classes back up to my example of Templars, not being able to critical hit makes sweeps and self sustain nil - but this has been mentioned a lot and I believe is coming. Templars need charge fixed, certain abilities reworked and also OP execute starts at <25% that's when you see the big ticks happen.

And lastly Dragonknight a prime example of not knowing how to balance a class and nerfing them into the ground, but at this time you can't buff what you already nerfed, so you need to go back to the drawing board and give it a class overhaul. Admit it, this is where you screwed up by listening to the community. - I have nothing else to say for Dragonknights I just outright dislike what has been done to this class without probable thinking about it for both PvE and PvP aspects.

This is the same as saying; Templars are fine, just need a few tweaks but DKs need major buffs, then later on in the same post you say you miss the 1.5 times. So you miss wiping whole raids with DKs? Rofl, right.

Nowhere do you recognize the struggle Stamplars are in or what a good position Stam DKs are in. My "little chart" might be based on what people around me say, but it is still a pretty accurate picture on the balance between the two classes at the moment. You will recognize that the Magicka DK is placed pretty low aswell.

You aren't exactly painting a whole picture either, and it's obvious you have an agenda to get magicka DKs back to the abominations they were in 1.5, or something simular.

But let's just agree that both DKs and Templars need some love in each their way, and then I hope they will listen more to me when it comes to fixing Stamplars because you obviously didn't include them in your equation, and that they will keep the Stam DK in mind when looking at the DK class as a whole.

Nifty2g

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

@Nifty2g I see you once again advocating Templars are fine and that DKs have been destroyed as a class. Are you completely oblivious to how poor a state Stamplars are in atm, and how Stamina DKs are the kings in 1v1? Overall you're still better off playing a DK whether you want to; DPS, 1v1, 1vX or tank. The only job a Templar excels in compared to the DK is healing, and that is obviously as magicka. Let me make a quick comparison herr so we don't confuse apples and oranges.
1v1: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar > Mag DK
1vX: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Mag DK > Stam Templar
DPS: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Tank: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Healing: Mag Templar > Mag DK
This is how the two classes compare in performance at the moment. This is the generally accepted truth withing the PvE and PvP communities at the moment.
How in all of Tamriel does this lead you to conclude that Templars are mostly fine and that DKs are ruined?
I think you need to reevalute your thought process along with the people in this thread who agreed with you.
Sorry for the direct approach but I am reading a lot of your misinformation on threads around on these forums in regards to how *** DKs are and how Templars are fine, neither of them obviously are fine at the moment compared to NBs and Sorcs, but you're still better off atm if you rolled a DK unless you're planning on going full healbot mode. That statement is irrefutably true, and everyone here knows it.

You seem to very misunderstand me, and it just sounds like you're wanting to make the class very overpowered, let me guess you main and play only a Templar? I play every class but main a Templar I can see the weaknesses with the class and the strengths. There are a lot of weaknesses I posted my thoughts on the class in the Templar issues thread which I will put a spoiler in here

Nifty2g wrote: »

Hey thanks for tagging me in here
Because my reply is going to be fairly large I want you to have a read @ZOS_GinaBruno or point someone to this post. I posted In @wrobel thread but I believe that was skipped over and missed out on their meeting unfortunately, because this is a fresh thread I'll share some more insight.

First off guys, lets not say skills are useless, they have uses but have been cut down due to constant exploiting, ZOS for the most part don't know how to deal with this so they make changes to defeat the exploits which dulls down the use of the said ability, that being said I will contribute my thoughts.

Secondly I want to stress that I am not asking for Templars to be incredibly overpowered, I'm asking for fixes to make the class how it used to be, this class was the most diverse in ESO, since then we are taking nerfs for absolutely no reason. In short, ZOS you are slowly making this diverse class very linear. You need to stop, when something is being exploited, fix the thing being exploited not destroy the class synergy.

Adjusting Templar Skills
1a) Vampires Bane: This right now is on my top priority list because this skill deals Fire Damage whereas the whole Templar toolkit is Magic Damage, this needs to be adjusted accordingly as it is a strong DoT and Templar's don't exactly get a use out of Damage over Time effects but this would bring the class up to where others are on a competitive standpoint.

1b) Javelin: This skill needs a complete overhaul maybe remove it similar to Blinding Flashes, maybe we could see a unique Extended Chains type skill for a Templar using the divine light to pull an enemy to you. Anything you do to this current skill's state will be completely subpar and not used by most Templars mainly because our main attack Puncturing Sweeps/Biting Jabs causes CC immunity and is a Melee damaging skill, this is designed to be a ranged attack - a very weak one at that.

1c) Puncturing Sweeps: This attack needs to be able to critically heal - with an ICD on the critical chance

1d) Breath of Life: This skill was amazing, you need to bring back the instant cast/heal on this, telling us to "anticipate damage" just doesn't work in a dynamic playing environment, it also seems like you guys didn't want to take the time to fix the skill up.

1e) Blazing Shield / Sun Shield: This was being largely exploited in Cyrodill by a lot of players, especially Emperors, this skill was looked at and changed very badly in a quick rush what it seems like it. Blazing Shield should have had the damage dealt reduced and stronger shield. Sun Shield should also deal less damage and the shield strength should be increased as it is right now this shield is a pity excuse for a shield, it doesn't do anything and the time it is active is very little. We have no defense as it stands right now. This needs to be adjusted, the shield strength has to be increased and damage reduced. That would be the perfect fix for this, we don't rely on a shield doing damage, we rely on shields to soak up damage.

1f) Toppling Charge: As stated this skill is working very oddly.

Adjusting Templar Passives
2a) Balanced Warrior: This increases your Spell Resistance and Weapon Damage - seeing as it's name is Balanced Warrior can we also add Spell Damage and Physical Resistance to the mix as well?

2b) Mending: I just wanted to bring this up again I know it will most likely be on the ignore list, but we are Templars, we are healers that is the main point of the class, to have stronger heals. This passive needs to apply to the overall class and any healing ability. Regardless, it was not unbalanced it also gave Templars a good use in groups, I'm seeing less and less of them.

Adjusting Templar Ultimates
3a) Crescent Sweep: This would possibly the most unused skill in all of ESO, this skill needs to be changed to act similar to Soul Harvest where it grants additional ultimate or a damage increase on effected targets.

That's all I have for now guys, I hope ZOS reads this and makes these changes to the class it would be great.

Also, just because Stamina Dragonknights are good doesn't mean that Magicka Dragonknights are.

1v1: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar > Mag DK
1vX: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Mag DK > Stam Templar
DPS: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Tank: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Healing: Mag Templar > Mag DK

This little chart is made up from your opinion and those players around you, not based on the whole game. I disagree with a lot of it

Maybe I misunderstand you, and maybe you also realize how Templars need a buff, but I am certainly not wanting the class to become OP, and no I play several other classes I just didn't list every character I have on the forums. Taken all this in mind though then I don't understand why you basically said this earlier in the thread:

Nifty2g wrote: »

Templars are fine, however sweeps needs to be buffed the damage is not extreme and should take into consideration of it being a cone attack. We need to be able to Critical hit shields, not being able to negates a lot of classes back up to my example of Templars, not being able to critical hit makes sweeps and self sustain nil - but this has been mentioned a lot and I believe is coming. Templars need charge fixed, certain abilities reworked and also OP execute starts at <25% that's when you see the big ticks happen.

And lastly Dragonknight a prime example of not knowing how to balance a class and nerfing them into the ground, but at this time you can't buff what you already nerfed, so you need to go back to the drawing board and give it a class overhaul. Admit it, this is where you screwed up by listening to the community. - I have nothing else to say for Dragonknights I just outright dislike what has been done to this class without probable thinking about it for both PvE and PvP aspects.

This is the same as saying; Templars are fine, just need a few tweaks but DKs need major buffs, then later on in the same post you say you miss the 1.5 times. So you miss wiping whole raids with DKs? Rofl, right.

Nowhere do you recognize the struggle Stamplars are in or what a good position Stam DKs are in. My "little chart" might be based on what people around me say, but it is still a pretty accurate picture on the balance between the two classes at the moment. You will recognize that the Magicka DK is placed pretty low aswell.

You aren't exactly painting a whole picture either, and it's obvious you have an agenda to get magicka DKs back to the abominations they were in 1.5, or something simular.

But let's just agree that both DKs and Templars need some love in each their way, and then I hope they will listen more to me when it comes to fixing Stamplars because you obviously didn't include them in your equation, and that they will keep the Stam DK in mind when looking at the DK class as a whole.

Is the whole part of my post flying over your head and you are reading this only "Templars are fine". I'm listing what is wrong with the classes, Stamina is currently broken for every class and will be adjusted with physical damage mitigation.

I don't main a Dragoknight and never really have. But I think this thread speaks for itself with the issues on Dragonknight http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/219520/the-death-of-the-dragonknight-updated-12-15/p1'

Not sure what you're trying to argue with me, I agree templar need adjustments and so do Dragonknights.

I have no opinion on Stamina ever since ZOS introduced the grand return of Stamina it's been broken as *** and theres been hardly any changes to it so I'm not even going to bother with that incompetence it's just a broken record

Zinaroth

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

@Nifty2g I see you once again advocating Templars are fine and that DKs have been destroyed as a class. Are you completely oblivious to how poor a state Stamplars are in atm, and how Stamina DKs are the kings in 1v1? Overall you're still better off playing a DK whether you want to; DPS, 1v1, 1vX or tank. The only job a Templar excels in compared to the DK is healing, and that is obviously as magicka. Let me make a quick comparison herr so we don't confuse apples and oranges.
1v1: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar > Mag DK
1vX: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Mag DK > Stam Templar
DPS: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Tank: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Healing: Mag Templar > Mag DK
This is how the two classes compare in performance at the moment. This is the generally accepted truth withing the PvE and PvP communities at the moment.
How in all of Tamriel does this lead you to conclude that Templars are mostly fine and that DKs are ruined?
I think you need to reevalute your thought process along with the people in this thread who agreed with you.
Sorry for the direct approach but I am reading a lot of your misinformation on threads around on these forums in regards to how *** DKs are and how Templars are fine, neither of them obviously are fine at the moment compared to NBs and Sorcs, but you're still better off atm if you rolled a DK unless you're planning on going full healbot mode. That statement is irrefutably true, and everyone here knows it.

You seem to very misunderstand me, and it just sounds like you're wanting to make the class very overpowered, let me guess you main and play only a Templar? I play every class but main a Templar I can see the weaknesses with the class and the strengths. There are a lot of weaknesses I posted my thoughts on the class in the Templar issues thread which I will put a spoiler in here

Nifty2g wrote: »

Hey thanks for tagging me in here
Because my reply is going to be fairly large I want you to have a read @ZOS_GinaBruno or point someone to this post. I posted In @wrobel thread but I believe that was skipped over and missed out on their meeting unfortunately, because this is a fresh thread I'll share some more insight.

First off guys, lets not say skills are useless, they have uses but have been cut down due to constant exploiting, ZOS for the most part don't know how to deal with this so they make changes to defeat the exploits which dulls down the use of the said ability, that being said I will contribute my thoughts.

Secondly I want to stress that I am not asking for Templars to be incredibly overpowered, I'm asking for fixes to make the class how it used to be, this class was the most diverse in ESO, since then we are taking nerfs for absolutely no reason. In short, ZOS you are slowly making this diverse class very linear. You need to stop, when something is being exploited, fix the thing being exploited not destroy the class synergy.

Adjusting Templar Skills
1a) Vampires Bane: This right now is on my top priority list because this skill deals Fire Damage whereas the whole Templar toolkit is Magic Damage, this needs to be adjusted accordingly as it is a strong DoT and Templar's don't exactly get a use out of Damage over Time effects but this would bring the class up to where others are on a competitive standpoint.

1b) Javelin: This skill needs a complete overhaul maybe remove it similar to Blinding Flashes, maybe we could see a unique Extended Chains type skill for a Templar using the divine light to pull an enemy to you. Anything you do to this current skill's state will be completely subpar and not used by most Templars mainly because our main attack Puncturing Sweeps/Biting Jabs causes CC immunity and is a Melee damaging skill, this is designed to be a ranged attack - a very weak one at that.

1c) Puncturing Sweeps: This attack needs to be able to critically heal - with an ICD on the critical chance

1d) Breath of Life: This skill was amazing, you need to bring back the instant cast/heal on this, telling us to "anticipate damage" just doesn't work in a dynamic playing environment, it also seems like you guys didn't want to take the time to fix the skill up.

1e) Blazing Shield / Sun Shield: This was being largely exploited in Cyrodill by a lot of players, especially Emperors, this skill was looked at and changed very badly in a quick rush what it seems like it. Blazing Shield should have had the damage dealt reduced and stronger shield. Sun Shield should also deal less damage and the shield strength should be increased as it is right now this shield is a pity excuse for a shield, it doesn't do anything and the time it is active is very little. We have no defense as it stands right now. This needs to be adjusted, the shield strength has to be increased and damage reduced. That would be the perfect fix for this, we don't rely on a shield doing damage, we rely on shields to soak up damage.

1f) Toppling Charge: As stated this skill is working very oddly.

Adjusting Templar Passives
2a) Balanced Warrior: This increases your Spell Resistance and Weapon Damage - seeing as it's name is Balanced Warrior can we also add Spell Damage and Physical Resistance to the mix as well?

2b) Mending: I just wanted to bring this up again I know it will most likely be on the ignore list, but we are Templars, we are healers that is the main point of the class, to have stronger heals. This passive needs to apply to the overall class and any healing ability. Regardless, it was not unbalanced it also gave Templars a good use in groups, I'm seeing less and less of them.

Adjusting Templar Ultimates
3a) Crescent Sweep: This would possibly the most unused skill in all of ESO, this skill needs to be changed to act similar to Soul Harvest where it grants additional ultimate or a damage increase on effected targets.

That's all I have for now guys, I hope ZOS reads this and makes these changes to the class it would be great.

Also, just because Stamina Dragonknights are good doesn't mean that Magicka Dragonknights are.

1v1: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar > Mag DK
1vX: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Mag DK > Stam Templar
DPS: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Tank: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Healing: Mag Templar > Mag DK

This little chart is made up from your opinion and those players around you, not based on the whole game. I disagree with a lot of it

Maybe I misunderstand you, and maybe you also realize how Templars need a buff, but I am certainly not wanting the class to become OP, and no I play several other classes I just didn't list every character I have on the forums. Taken all this in mind though then I don't understand why you basically said this earlier in the thread:

Nifty2g wrote: »

Templars are fine, however sweeps needs to be buffed the damage is not extreme and should take into consideration of it being a cone attack. We need to be able to Critical hit shields, not being able to negates a lot of classes back up to my example of Templars, not being able to critical hit makes sweeps and self sustain nil - but this has been mentioned a lot and I believe is coming. Templars need charge fixed, certain abilities reworked and also OP execute starts at <25% that's when you see the big ticks happen.

And lastly Dragonknight a prime example of not knowing how to balance a class and nerfing them into the ground, but at this time you can't buff what you already nerfed, so you need to go back to the drawing board and give it a class overhaul. Admit it, this is where you screwed up by listening to the community. - I have nothing else to say for Dragonknights I just outright dislike what has been done to this class without probable thinking about it for both PvE and PvP aspects.

This is the same as saying; Templars are fine, just need a few tweaks but DKs need major buffs, then later on in the same post you say you miss the 1.5 times. So you miss wiping whole raids with DKs? Rofl, right.

Nowhere do you recognize the struggle Stamplars are in or what a good position Stam DKs are in. My "little chart" might be based on what people around me say, but it is still a pretty accurate picture on the balance between the two classes at the moment. You will recognize that the Magicka DK is placed pretty low aswell.

You aren't exactly painting a whole picture either, and it's obvious you have an agenda to get magicka DKs back to the abominations they were in 1.5, or something simular.

But let's just agree that both DKs and Templars need some love in each their way, and then I hope they will listen more to me when it comes to fixing Stamplars because you obviously didn't include them in your equation, and that they will keep the Stam DK in mind when looking at the DK class as a whole.

Is the whole part of my post flying over your head and you are reading this only "Templars are fine". I'm listing what is wrong with the classes, Stamina is currently broken for every class and will be adjusted with physical damage mitigation.

I don't main a Dragoknight and never really have. But I think this thread speaks for itself with the issues on Dragonknight http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/219520/the-death-of-the-dragonknight-updated-12-15/p1'

Not sure what you're trying to argue with me, I agree templar need adjustments and so do Dragonknights.

I have no opinion on Stamina ever since ZOS introduced the grand return of Stamina it's been broken as *** and theres been hardly any changes to it so I'm not even going to bother with that incompetence it's just a broken record

Stamina Templars need more than just fixes that go out to stamina in general. It is currently contending for weakest build atm along with the magicka DK. If you can aknowledge that magicak DKs are doing bad, but can't aknowledge the same for Stamplars then you really do not realize what is needed for the Templar class. All your fixes are focused towards magicka templar and will not help stamina templars become more viable. It would be the same as me saying that DKs are fine solely based off the performance of Stamina DKs.

We both agree the classes need help, but to me it seems you're neglecting that there's stamina versions aswell and are basing all your arguments and what needs buffing/fixing around the classes solely based on their performance when build into magicka.

Nifty2g

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

@Nifty2g I see you once again advocating Templars are fine and that DKs have been destroyed as a class. Are you completely oblivious to how poor a state Stamplars are in atm, and how Stamina DKs are the kings in 1v1? Overall you're still better off playing a DK whether you want to; DPS, 1v1, 1vX or tank. The only job a Templar excels in compared to the DK is healing, and that is obviously as magicka. Let me make a quick comparison herr so we don't confuse apples and oranges.
1v1: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar > Mag DK
1vX: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Mag DK > Stam Templar
DPS: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Tank: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Healing: Mag Templar > Mag DK
This is how the two classes compare in performance at the moment. This is the generally accepted truth withing the PvE and PvP communities at the moment.
How in all of Tamriel does this lead you to conclude that Templars are mostly fine and that DKs are ruined?
I think you need to reevalute your thought process along with the people in this thread who agreed with you.
Sorry for the direct approach but I am reading a lot of your misinformation on threads around on these forums in regards to how *** DKs are and how Templars are fine, neither of them obviously are fine at the moment compared to NBs and Sorcs, but you're still better off atm if you rolled a DK unless you're planning on going full healbot mode. That statement is irrefutably true, and everyone here knows it.

You seem to very misunderstand me, and it just sounds like you're wanting to make the class very overpowered, let me guess you main and play only a Templar? I play every class but main a Templar I can see the weaknesses with the class and the strengths. There are a lot of weaknesses I posted my thoughts on the class in the Templar issues thread which I will put a spoiler in here

Nifty2g wrote: »

Hey thanks for tagging me in here
Because my reply is going to be fairly large I want you to have a read @ZOS_GinaBruno or point someone to this post. I posted In @wrobel thread but I believe that was skipped over and missed out on their meeting unfortunately, because this is a fresh thread I'll share some more insight.

First off guys, lets not say skills are useless, they have uses but have been cut down due to constant exploiting, ZOS for the most part don't know how to deal with this so they make changes to defeat the exploits which dulls down the use of the said ability, that being said I will contribute my thoughts.

Secondly I want to stress that I am not asking for Templars to be incredibly overpowered, I'm asking for fixes to make the class how it used to be, this class was the most diverse in ESO, since then we are taking nerfs for absolutely no reason. In short, ZOS you are slowly making this diverse class very linear. You need to stop, when something is being exploited, fix the thing being exploited not destroy the class synergy.

Adjusting Templar Skills
1a) Vampires Bane: This right now is on my top priority list because this skill deals Fire Damage whereas the whole Templar toolkit is Magic Damage, this needs to be adjusted accordingly as it is a strong DoT and Templar's don't exactly get a use out of Damage over Time effects but this would bring the class up to where others are on a competitive standpoint.

1b) Javelin: This skill needs a complete overhaul maybe remove it similar to Blinding Flashes, maybe we could see a unique Extended Chains type skill for a Templar using the divine light to pull an enemy to you. Anything you do to this current skill's state will be completely subpar and not used by most Templars mainly because our main attack Puncturing Sweeps/Biting Jabs causes CC immunity and is a Melee damaging skill, this is designed to be a ranged attack - a very weak one at that.

1c) Puncturing Sweeps: This attack needs to be able to critically heal - with an ICD on the critical chance

1d) Breath of Life: This skill was amazing, you need to bring back the instant cast/heal on this, telling us to "anticipate damage" just doesn't work in a dynamic playing environment, it also seems like you guys didn't want to take the time to fix the skill up.

1e) Blazing Shield / Sun Shield: This was being largely exploited in Cyrodill by a lot of players, especially Emperors, this skill was looked at and changed very badly in a quick rush what it seems like it. Blazing Shield should have had the damage dealt reduced and stronger shield. Sun Shield should also deal less damage and the shield strength should be increased as it is right now this shield is a pity excuse for a shield, it doesn't do anything and the time it is active is very little. We have no defense as it stands right now. This needs to be adjusted, the shield strength has to be increased and damage reduced. That would be the perfect fix for this, we don't rely on a shield doing damage, we rely on shields to soak up damage.

1f) Toppling Charge: As stated this skill is working very oddly.

Adjusting Templar Passives
2a) Balanced Warrior: This increases your Spell Resistance and Weapon Damage - seeing as it's name is Balanced Warrior can we also add Spell Damage and Physical Resistance to the mix as well?

2b) Mending: I just wanted to bring this up again I know it will most likely be on the ignore list, but we are Templars, we are healers that is the main point of the class, to have stronger heals. This passive needs to apply to the overall class and any healing ability. Regardless, it was not unbalanced it also gave Templars a good use in groups, I'm seeing less and less of them.

Adjusting Templar Ultimates
3a) Crescent Sweep: This would possibly the most unused skill in all of ESO, this skill needs to be changed to act similar to Soul Harvest where it grants additional ultimate or a damage increase on effected targets.

That's all I have for now guys, I hope ZOS reads this and makes these changes to the class it would be great.

Also, just because Stamina Dragonknights are good doesn't mean that Magicka Dragonknights are.

1v1: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar > Mag DK
1vX: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Mag DK > Stam Templar
DPS: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Tank: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Healing: Mag Templar > Mag DK

This little chart is made up from your opinion and those players around you, not based on the whole game. I disagree with a lot of it

Maybe I misunderstand you, and maybe you also realize how Templars need a buff, but I am certainly not wanting the class to become OP, and no I play several other classes I just didn't list every character I have on the forums. Taken all this in mind though then I don't understand why you basically said this earlier in the thread:

Nifty2g wrote: »

Templars are fine, however sweeps needs to be buffed the damage is not extreme and should take into consideration of it being a cone attack. We need to be able to Critical hit shields, not being able to negates a lot of classes back up to my example of Templars, not being able to critical hit makes sweeps and self sustain nil - but this has been mentioned a lot and I believe is coming. Templars need charge fixed, certain abilities reworked and also OP execute starts at <25% that's when you see the big ticks happen.

And lastly Dragonknight a prime example of not knowing how to balance a class and nerfing them into the ground, but at this time you can't buff what you already nerfed, so you need to go back to the drawing board and give it a class overhaul. Admit it, this is where you screwed up by listening to the community. - I have nothing else to say for Dragonknights I just outright dislike what has been done to this class without probable thinking about it for both PvE and PvP aspects.

This is the same as saying; Templars are fine, just need a few tweaks but DKs need major buffs, then later on in the same post you say you miss the 1.5 times. So you miss wiping whole raids with DKs? Rofl, right.

Nowhere do you recognize the struggle Stamplars are in or what a good position Stam DKs are in. My "little chart" might be based on what people around me say, but it is still a pretty accurate picture on the balance between the two classes at the moment. You will recognize that the Magicka DK is placed pretty low aswell.

You aren't exactly painting a whole picture either, and it's obvious you have an agenda to get magicka DKs back to the abominations they were in 1.5, or something simular.

But let's just agree that both DKs and Templars need some love in each their way, and then I hope they will listen more to me when it comes to fixing Stamplars because you obviously didn't include them in your equation, and that they will keep the Stam DK in mind when looking at the DK class as a whole.

Is the whole part of my post flying over your head and you are reading this only "Templars are fine". I'm listing what is wrong with the classes, Stamina is currently broken for every class and will be adjusted with physical damage mitigation.

I don't main a Dragoknight and never really have. But I think this thread speaks for itself with the issues on Dragonknight http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/219520/the-death-of-the-dragonknight-updated-12-15/p1'

Not sure what you're trying to argue with me, I agree templar need adjustments and so do Dragonknights.

I have no opinion on Stamina ever since ZOS introduced the grand return of Stamina it's been broken as *** and theres been hardly any changes to it so I'm not even going to bother with that incompetence it's just a broken record

Stamina Templars need more than just fixes that go out to stamina in general. It is currently contending for weakest build atm along with the magicka DK. If you can aknowledge that magicak DKs are doing bad, but can't aknowledge the same for Stamplars then you really do not realize what is needed for the Templar class. All your fixes are focused towards magicka templar and will not help stamina templars become more viable. It would be the same as me saying that DKs are fine solely based off the performance of Stamina DKs.

We both agree the classes need help, but to me it seems you're neglecting that there's stamina versions aswell and are basing all your arguments and what needs buffing/fixing around the classes solely based on their performance when build into magicka.

I have a feeling you are just telling yourself what you want to hear lol, I'm not neglecting anything what parts don't you understand? How are you getting anything I am saying from your responses, you make it sound like I'm arguing with anything you are saying

I'll bold it

I have no opinion on Stamina ever since ZOS introduced the grand return of Stamina it's been broken as *** and theres been hardly any changes to it so I'm not even going to bother with that incompetence it's just a broken record

The Analysis: That basically says it's broken, I don't play stamina and it obviously needs fixing I just have no opinion on what it needs fixing specifically as I don't play it, if I did play it, I would give proper feedback for it

All of my fixes are things that will help the Magicka side, as for Stamina Templars I have a question for you, what is bad about them? Last time I played one was in Maelstrom Arena and it was possibly the easiest thing I've ever done. So at least back up what you're saying with what is wrong with Stamina Templars

Conquistador

Axorn wrote: »

Awsome post. You explained pretty much everything why i stopped playing this game. Agreed %100.

... so why are you here?

Zinaroth

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

@Nifty2g I see you once again advocating Templars are fine and that DKs have been destroyed as a class. Are you completely oblivious to how poor a state Stamplars are in atm, and how Stamina DKs are the kings in 1v1? Overall you're still better off playing a DK whether you want to; DPS, 1v1, 1vX or tank. The only job a Templar excels in compared to the DK is healing, and that is obviously as magicka. Let me make a quick comparison herr so we don't confuse apples and oranges.
1v1: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar > Mag DK
1vX: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Mag DK > Stam Templar
DPS: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Tank: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Healing: Mag Templar > Mag DK
This is how the two classes compare in performance at the moment. This is the generally accepted truth withing the PvE and PvP communities at the moment.
How in all of Tamriel does this lead you to conclude that Templars are mostly fine and that DKs are ruined?
I think you need to reevalute your thought process along with the people in this thread who agreed with you.
Sorry for the direct approach but I am reading a lot of your misinformation on threads around on these forums in regards to how *** DKs are and how Templars are fine, neither of them obviously are fine at the moment compared to NBs and Sorcs, but you're still better off atm if you rolled a DK unless you're planning on going full healbot mode. That statement is irrefutably true, and everyone here knows it.

You seem to very misunderstand me, and it just sounds like you're wanting to make the class very overpowered, let me guess you main and play only a Templar? I play every class but main a Templar I can see the weaknesses with the class and the strengths. There are a lot of weaknesses I posted my thoughts on the class in the Templar issues thread which I will put a spoiler in here

Nifty2g wrote: »

Hey thanks for tagging me in here
Because my reply is going to be fairly large I want you to have a read @ZOS_GinaBruno or point someone to this post. I posted In @wrobel thread but I believe that was skipped over and missed out on their meeting unfortunately, because this is a fresh thread I'll share some more insight.

First off guys, lets not say skills are useless, they have uses but have been cut down due to constant exploiting, ZOS for the most part don't know how to deal with this so they make changes to defeat the exploits which dulls down the use of the said ability, that being said I will contribute my thoughts.

Secondly I want to stress that I am not asking for Templars to be incredibly overpowered, I'm asking for fixes to make the class how it used to be, this class was the most diverse in ESO, since then we are taking nerfs for absolutely no reason. In short, ZOS you are slowly making this diverse class very linear. You need to stop, when something is being exploited, fix the thing being exploited not destroy the class synergy.

Adjusting Templar Skills
1a) Vampires Bane: This right now is on my top priority list because this skill deals Fire Damage whereas the whole Templar toolkit is Magic Damage, this needs to be adjusted accordingly as it is a strong DoT and Templar's don't exactly get a use out of Damage over Time effects but this would bring the class up to where others are on a competitive standpoint.

1b) Javelin: This skill needs a complete overhaul maybe remove it similar to Blinding Flashes, maybe we could see a unique Extended Chains type skill for a Templar using the divine light to pull an enemy to you. Anything you do to this current skill's state will be completely subpar and not used by most Templars mainly because our main attack Puncturing Sweeps/Biting Jabs causes CC immunity and is a Melee damaging skill, this is designed to be a ranged attack - a very weak one at that.

1c) Puncturing Sweeps: This attack needs to be able to critically heal - with an ICD on the critical chance

1d) Breath of Life: This skill was amazing, you need to bring back the instant cast/heal on this, telling us to "anticipate damage" just doesn't work in a dynamic playing environment, it also seems like you guys didn't want to take the time to fix the skill up.

1e) Blazing Shield / Sun Shield: This was being largely exploited in Cyrodill by a lot of players, especially Emperors, this skill was looked at and changed very badly in a quick rush what it seems like it. Blazing Shield should have had the damage dealt reduced and stronger shield. Sun Shield should also deal less damage and the shield strength should be increased as it is right now this shield is a pity excuse for a shield, it doesn't do anything and the time it is active is very little. We have no defense as it stands right now. This needs to be adjusted, the shield strength has to be increased and damage reduced. That would be the perfect fix for this, we don't rely on a shield doing damage, we rely on shields to soak up damage.

1f) Toppling Charge: As stated this skill is working very oddly.

Adjusting Templar Passives
2a) Balanced Warrior: This increases your Spell Resistance and Weapon Damage - seeing as it's name is Balanced Warrior can we also add Spell Damage and Physical Resistance to the mix as well?

2b) Mending: I just wanted to bring this up again I know it will most likely be on the ignore list, but we are Templars, we are healers that is the main point of the class, to have stronger heals. This passive needs to apply to the overall class and any healing ability. Regardless, it was not unbalanced it also gave Templars a good use in groups, I'm seeing less and less of them.

Adjusting Templar Ultimates
3a) Crescent Sweep: This would possibly the most unused skill in all of ESO, this skill needs to be changed to act similar to Soul Harvest where it grants additional ultimate or a damage increase on effected targets.

That's all I have for now guys, I hope ZOS reads this and makes these changes to the class it would be great.

Also, just because Stamina Dragonknights are good doesn't mean that Magicka Dragonknights are.

1v1: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar > Mag DK
1vX: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Mag DK > Stam Templar
DPS: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Tank: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Healing: Mag Templar > Mag DK

This little chart is made up from your opinion and those players around you, not based on the whole game. I disagree with a lot of it

Maybe I misunderstand you, and maybe you also realize how Templars need a buff, but I am certainly not wanting the class to become OP, and no I play several other classes I just didn't list every character I have on the forums. Taken all this in mind though then I don't understand why you basically said this earlier in the thread:

Nifty2g wrote: »

Templars are fine, however sweeps needs to be buffed the damage is not extreme and should take into consideration of it being a cone attack. We need to be able to Critical hit shields, not being able to negates a lot of classes back up to my example of Templars, not being able to critical hit makes sweeps and self sustain nil - but this has been mentioned a lot and I believe is coming. Templars need charge fixed, certain abilities reworked and also OP execute starts at <25% that's when you see the big ticks happen.

And lastly Dragonknight a prime example of not knowing how to balance a class and nerfing them into the ground, but at this time you can't buff what you already nerfed, so you need to go back to the drawing board and give it a class overhaul. Admit it, this is where you screwed up by listening to the community. - I have nothing else to say for Dragonknights I just outright dislike what has been done to this class without probable thinking about it for both PvE and PvP aspects.

This is the same as saying; Templars are fine, just need a few tweaks but DKs need major buffs, then later on in the same post you say you miss the 1.5 times. So you miss wiping whole raids with DKs? Rofl, right.

Nowhere do you recognize the struggle Stamplars are in or what a good position Stam DKs are in. My "little chart" might be based on what people around me say, but it is still a pretty accurate picture on the balance between the two classes at the moment. You will recognize that the Magicka DK is placed pretty low aswell.

You aren't exactly painting a whole picture either, and it's obvious you have an agenda to get magicka DKs back to the abominations they were in 1.5, or something simular.

But let's just agree that both DKs and Templars need some love in each their way, and then I hope they will listen more to me when it comes to fixing Stamplars because you obviously didn't include them in your equation, and that they will keep the Stam DK in mind when looking at the DK class as a whole.

Is the whole part of my post flying over your head and you are reading this only "Templars are fine". I'm listing what is wrong with the classes, Stamina is currently broken for every class and will be adjusted with physical damage mitigation.

I don't main a Dragoknight and never really have. But I think this thread speaks for itself with the issues on Dragonknight http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/219520/the-death-of-the-dragonknight-updated-12-15/p1'

Not sure what you're trying to argue with me, I agree templar need adjustments and so do Dragonknights.

I have no opinion on Stamina ever since ZOS introduced the grand return of Stamina it's been broken as *** and theres been hardly any changes to it so I'm not even going to bother with that incompetence it's just a broken record

Stamina Templars need more than just fixes that go out to stamina in general. It is currently contending for weakest build atm along with the magicka DK. If you can aknowledge that magicak DKs are doing bad, but can't aknowledge the same for Stamplars then you really do not realize what is needed for the Templar class. All your fixes are focused towards magicka templar and will not help stamina templars become more viable. It would be the same as me saying that DKs are fine solely based off the performance of Stamina DKs.

We both agree the classes need help, but to me it seems you're neglecting that there's stamina versions aswell and are basing all your arguments and what needs buffing/fixing around the classes solely based on their performance when build into magicka.

I have a feeling you are just telling yourself what you want to hear lol, I'm not neglecting anything what parts don't you understand? How are you getting anything I am saying from your responses, you make it sound like I'm arguing with anything you are saying

I'll bold it

I have no opinion on Stamina ever since ZOS introduced the grand return of Stamina it's been broken as *** and theres been hardly any changes to it so I'm not even going to bother with that incompetence it's just a broken record

The Analysis: That basically says it's broken, I don't play stamina and it obviously needs fixing I just have no opinion on what it needs fixing specifically as I don't play it, if I did play it, I would give proper feedback for it

All of my fixes are things that will help the Magicka side, as for Stamina Templars I have a question for you, what is bad about them? Last time I played one was in Maelstrom Arena and it was possibly the easiest thing I've ever done. So at least back up what you're saying with what is wrong with Stamina Templars

Just like you referred me to a thread on what was wrong with Magicka DKs I will now refer you to the thread that will tell you everything you need to know about how Stamplar are underperforming, because as you know, there is no short answer for this and I don't feel like writing an essay again.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/234362/templar-issues-thread/p1

Also regarding the vMA thing: Of all the stamina classes the Stamplars have the hardest time in there, Alcast will confirm this and if there is a guy who has tested that *** to death with all classes as stamina it is him, he has tons of videos on it on YouTube. Magicka classes are all performing better than stamina in there, even magicka DKs, aslong as they utilize Healing Ward. This pretty much places Stamplar at the bottom. You play magicka, yet you say the clear with your Stamplar was the easiest thing you have ever done? Everyone knows Magicka Templars outpeform Stamplars in PvE, and especially in solo content. Sound to me like you're just exagerating now to further your point and making up stuff because you're annoyed with me opposing you.

No you're not arguing with what I am saying, I am arguing with what you're saying; that Stamplars are fine but Magicka DKs are not, they are both equally *** at the moment.

In one post you say that Stamplars are fine and stamina in general is overperforming, in the next you say that you don't play stamina really so you're not qualified to say, and then in the next you give this exaguration on how clearing vMA with a Stamplar is the easiest thing you have ever done, come on man...

Cinbri

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We want each class to feel unique and have their own special identity.

Ye, identity of solo magicka templar in Cyrodiil's open world so unique that i heavily resist my deep and noble feeling to uninstall game.
And btw - templar has ground based aoe with dot - Blazing Spear.

Nifty2g

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

@Nifty2g I see you once again advocating Templars are fine and that DKs have been destroyed as a class. Are you completely oblivious to how poor a state Stamplars are in atm, and how Stamina DKs are the kings in 1v1? Overall you're still better off playing a DK whether you want to; DPS, 1v1, 1vX or tank. The only job a Templar excels in compared to the DK is healing, and that is obviously as magicka. Let me make a quick comparison herr so we don't confuse apples and oranges.
1v1: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar > Mag DK
1vX: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Mag DK > Stam Templar
DPS: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Tank: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Healing: Mag Templar > Mag DK
This is how the two classes compare in performance at the moment. This is the generally accepted truth withing the PvE and PvP communities at the moment.
How in all of Tamriel does this lead you to conclude that Templars are mostly fine and that DKs are ruined?
I think you need to reevalute your thought process along with the people in this thread who agreed with you.
Sorry for the direct approach but I am reading a lot of your misinformation on threads around on these forums in regards to how *** DKs are and how Templars are fine, neither of them obviously are fine at the moment compared to NBs and Sorcs, but you're still better off atm if you rolled a DK unless you're planning on going full healbot mode. That statement is irrefutably true, and everyone here knows it.

You seem to very misunderstand me, and it just sounds like you're wanting to make the class very overpowered, let me guess you main and play only a Templar? I play every class but main a Templar I can see the weaknesses with the class and the strengths. There are a lot of weaknesses I posted my thoughts on the class in the Templar issues thread which I will put a spoiler in here

Nifty2g wrote: »

Hey thanks for tagging me in here
Because my reply is going to be fairly large I want you to have a read @ZOS_GinaBruno or point someone to this post. I posted In @wrobel thread but I believe that was skipped over and missed out on their meeting unfortunately, because this is a fresh thread I'll share some more insight.

First off guys, lets not say skills are useless, they have uses but have been cut down due to constant exploiting, ZOS for the most part don't know how to deal with this so they make changes to defeat the exploits which dulls down the use of the said ability, that being said I will contribute my thoughts.

Secondly I want to stress that I am not asking for Templars to be incredibly overpowered, I'm asking for fixes to make the class how it used to be, this class was the most diverse in ESO, since then we are taking nerfs for absolutely no reason. In short, ZOS you are slowly making this diverse class very linear. You need to stop, when something is being exploited, fix the thing being exploited not destroy the class synergy.

Adjusting Templar Skills
1a) Vampires Bane: This right now is on my top priority list because this skill deals Fire Damage whereas the whole Templar toolkit is Magic Damage, this needs to be adjusted accordingly as it is a strong DoT and Templar's don't exactly get a use out of Damage over Time effects but this would bring the class up to where others are on a competitive standpoint.

1b) Javelin: This skill needs a complete overhaul maybe remove it similar to Blinding Flashes, maybe we could see a unique Extended Chains type skill for a Templar using the divine light to pull an enemy to you. Anything you do to this current skill's state will be completely subpar and not used by most Templars mainly because our main attack Puncturing Sweeps/Biting Jabs causes CC immunity and is a Melee damaging skill, this is designed to be a ranged attack - a very weak one at that.

1c) Puncturing Sweeps: This attack needs to be able to critically heal - with an ICD on the critical chance

1d) Breath of Life: This skill was amazing, you need to bring back the instant cast/heal on this, telling us to "anticipate damage" just doesn't work in a dynamic playing environment, it also seems like you guys didn't want to take the time to fix the skill up.

1e) Blazing Shield / Sun Shield: This was being largely exploited in Cyrodill by a lot of players, especially Emperors, this skill was looked at and changed very badly in a quick rush what it seems like it. Blazing Shield should have had the damage dealt reduced and stronger shield. Sun Shield should also deal less damage and the shield strength should be increased as it is right now this shield is a pity excuse for a shield, it doesn't do anything and the time it is active is very little. We have no defense as it stands right now. This needs to be adjusted, the shield strength has to be increased and damage reduced. That would be the perfect fix for this, we don't rely on a shield doing damage, we rely on shields to soak up damage.

1f) Toppling Charge: As stated this skill is working very oddly.

Adjusting Templar Passives
2a) Balanced Warrior: This increases your Spell Resistance and Weapon Damage - seeing as it's name is Balanced Warrior can we also add Spell Damage and Physical Resistance to the mix as well?

2b) Mending: I just wanted to bring this up again I know it will most likely be on the ignore list, but we are Templars, we are healers that is the main point of the class, to have stronger heals. This passive needs to apply to the overall class and any healing ability. Regardless, it was not unbalanced it also gave Templars a good use in groups, I'm seeing less and less of them.

Adjusting Templar Ultimates
3a) Crescent Sweep: This would possibly the most unused skill in all of ESO, this skill needs to be changed to act similar to Soul Harvest where it grants additional ultimate or a damage increase on effected targets.

That's all I have for now guys, I hope ZOS reads this and makes these changes to the class it would be great.

Also, just because Stamina Dragonknights are good doesn't mean that Magicka Dragonknights are.

1v1: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar > Mag DK
1vX: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Mag DK > Stam Templar
DPS: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Tank: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Healing: Mag Templar > Mag DK

This little chart is made up from your opinion and those players around you, not based on the whole game. I disagree with a lot of it

Maybe I misunderstand you, and maybe you also realize how Templars need a buff, but I am certainly not wanting the class to become OP, and no I play several other classes I just didn't list every character I have on the forums. Taken all this in mind though then I don't understand why you basically said this earlier in the thread:

Nifty2g wrote: »

Templars are fine, however sweeps needs to be buffed the damage is not extreme and should take into consideration of it being a cone attack. We need to be able to Critical hit shields, not being able to negates a lot of classes back up to my example of Templars, not being able to critical hit makes sweeps and self sustain nil - but this has been mentioned a lot and I believe is coming. Templars need charge fixed, certain abilities reworked and also OP execute starts at <25% that's when you see the big ticks happen.

And lastly Dragonknight a prime example of not knowing how to balance a class and nerfing them into the ground, but at this time you can't buff what you already nerfed, so you need to go back to the drawing board and give it a class overhaul. Admit it, this is where you screwed up by listening to the community. - I have nothing else to say for Dragonknights I just outright dislike what has been done to this class without probable thinking about it for both PvE and PvP aspects.

This is the same as saying; Templars are fine, just need a few tweaks but DKs need major buffs, then later on in the same post you say you miss the 1.5 times. So you miss wiping whole raids with DKs? Rofl, right.

Nowhere do you recognize the struggle Stamplars are in or what a good position Stam DKs are in. My "little chart" might be based on what people around me say, but it is still a pretty accurate picture on the balance between the two classes at the moment. You will recognize that the Magicka DK is placed pretty low aswell.

You aren't exactly painting a whole picture either, and it's obvious you have an agenda to get magicka DKs back to the abominations they were in 1.5, or something simular.

But let's just agree that both DKs and Templars need some love in each their way, and then I hope they will listen more to me when it comes to fixing Stamplars because you obviously didn't include them in your equation, and that they will keep the Stam DK in mind when looking at the DK class as a whole.

Is the whole part of my post flying over your head and you are reading this only "Templars are fine". I'm listing what is wrong with the classes, Stamina is currently broken for every class and will be adjusted with physical damage mitigation.

I don't main a Dragoknight and never really have. But I think this thread speaks for itself with the issues on Dragonknight http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/219520/the-death-of-the-dragonknight-updated-12-15/p1'

Not sure what you're trying to argue with me, I agree templar need adjustments and so do Dragonknights.

I have no opinion on Stamina ever since ZOS introduced the grand return of Stamina it's been broken as *** and theres been hardly any changes to it so I'm not even going to bother with that incompetence it's just a broken record

Stamina Templars need more than just fixes that go out to stamina in general. It is currently contending for weakest build atm along with the magicka DK. If you can aknowledge that magicak DKs are doing bad, but can't aknowledge the same for Stamplars then you really do not realize what is needed for the Templar class. All your fixes are focused towards magicka templar and will not help stamina templars become more viable. It would be the same as me saying that DKs are fine solely based off the performance of Stamina DKs.

We both agree the classes need help, but to me it seems you're neglecting that there's stamina versions aswell and are basing all your arguments and what needs buffing/fixing around the classes solely based on their performance when build into magicka.

I have a feeling you are just telling yourself what you want to hear lol, I'm not neglecting anything what parts don't you understand? How are you getting anything I am saying from your responses, you make it sound like I'm arguing with anything you are saying

I'll bold it

I have no opinion on Stamina ever since ZOS introduced the grand return of Stamina it's been broken as *** and theres been hardly any changes to it so I'm not even going to bother with that incompetence it's just a broken record

The Analysis: That basically says it's broken, I don't play stamina and it obviously needs fixing I just have no opinion on what it needs fixing specifically as I don't play it, if I did play it, I would give proper feedback for it

All of my fixes are things that will help the Magicka side, as for Stamina Templars I have a question for you, what is bad about them? Last time I played one was in Maelstrom Arena and it was possibly the easiest thing I've ever done. So at least back up what you're saying with what is wrong with Stamina Templars

Just like you referred me to a thread on what was wrong with Magicka DKs I will now refer you to the thread that will tell you everything you need to know about how Stamplar are underperforming, because as you know, there is no short answer for this and I don't feel like writing an essay again.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/234362/templar-issues-thread/p1

Also regarding the vMA thing: Of all the stamina classes the Stamplars have the hardest time in there, Alcast will confirm this and if there is a guy who has tested that *** to death with all classes as stamina it is him, he has tons of videos on it on YouTube. Magicka classes are all performing better than stamina in there, even magicka DKs, aslong as they utilize Healing Ward. This pretty much places Stamplar at the bottom. You play magicka, yet you say the clear with your Stamplar was the easiest thing you have ever done? Everyone knows Magicka Templars outpeform Stamplars in PvE, and especially in solo content. Sound to me like you're just exagerating now to further your point and making up stuff because you're annoyed with me opposing you.

No you're not arguing with what I am saying, I am arguing with what you're saying; that Stamplars are fine but Magicka DKs are not, they are both equally *** at the moment.

In one post you say that Stamplars are fine and stamina in general is overperforming, in the next you say that you don't play stamina really so you're not qualified to say, and then in the next you give this exaguration on how clearing vMA with a Stamplar is the easiest thing you have ever done, come on man...

I see you are telling yourself what you want to hear, I never said stamplars are fine, I've made no comment on it.

Regarding VMA: You are basing your argument on one person, I guess you don't have much knowledge but the in the Top 3 spots in Maelstrom Arena #2 and #3 for Templars belong to Stamina Templars. (World Wide). I am currently #4 I stopped running this place for about month now, I was #2 and guess what I do not use Healing Ward neither do the top players for Sorcerers or Nightblades, I believe only Dragonknights use it.

For Dragonknight in the Top 3 #2 belongs to a Stamina Dragonknight (World Wide).

Am I making stuff up? No check out my videos, also in regards to VMA and Templars being the easiest I'll tell you why: Purify, Caltrops, Vigor, Steel Tornado, Biting Jabs, Blazing Shield. You can't base your argument from what 1 person says from when VMA first launched.

You also linked the same thread I linked you, majority of these are Magicka posts rather than Stamina ones.


Lets make a chart and discuss Stamina since you seem to be all about it - Skills only (excluding passives and ultimates)

Sorcerer
Defensive Skills

• Streak: (Increased magicka cost per cast bad for Stamina)
• Dark Deal: Converts Magic into Stamina and Health
• Thundering Presence: Movement Speed and AoE damage

Offensive Skills:

None?

Buffs

• Bound Armaments: Gives Max Stam and Heavy Attack Damage
• Critical Surge: Major Brutality

Dragonknight
Defensive Skills

• Petrify: Long lasting stun
• Dragon fire Scale: Reflects with 20% Damage Increase
• Igneous Shield: Shield + Stamina Return

Offensive Skills:

• Unstable Flame: Very strong Damage over Time
• Burning Breath: Damage over Time + Reduces Enemy Armor
  

Buffs

• Flames of Oblivion: Increases Critical Strike

Templar
Defensive Skills

• Purify: Removes up to 5 negative effects
• Blazing Shield: Damage Shield
• Repentance: Free cost + Restore stamina from bodies based on your Max Stamina
• Channel Focus + Restoring Focus: Restores Magicka, Gives you Major Resolve + Ward and 15% additional healing

Offensive Skills:

• Power of The Light: Reduces Enemy Armor/Spell Resistance
• Biting Jabs: Increases Critical Strike Rating
  

Buffs

None on their own; most buffs are in the Offensive and Defensive skills.

Nightblade
Defensive Skills

• Dark Cloak: Become invisible + Remove DoTs
• Mass Hysteria: Enemy snared and deals less damage when effect ends.
• Dark Shade + Shadow Image: Reduce Enemy Damage or Teleport to your Shade
• Siphoning Attacks: All attacks have a chance to restore Magicka and Stamina.
• Double Take + Mirage: Bonus movement speed on activation or increase armor and spell resistance.

Offensive Skills:

• Ambush: Gap closer + Grants Empower + Immobile
• Piercing + Reapers Mark: Increased duration and you can see the target if they stealth or go invisible or Gain damage bonus and a bigger heal when killing marked target.
• Surprise Attack: Reduces target’s armor on hit.

Buffs

• Relentless Focus:Gain Stamina Regeneration + Increase Damage

Alright, so based on this evaluation, Stamina Sorcerer needs the most work. From now on make sure your posts are not biased, for ZOS to hear you out, you need to look at all the classes instead of asking for an overall buff.

Korah_Eaglecry

Honestly I feel like this is a poorly veiled attempt to strip the game of classes. Destroying any unique aspect that the differing classes bring to the game and essentially doing the same thing as every other class just with a different visual appearance.

Sorry, but I cant agree with this or support it. The games not balanced, probably never will be but stripping the classes of their uniqueness will not create balance but more likely it will destroy any variety in playstyle and build choice out there. Theres nothing more boring than everyone running the same everything.

Contrary to popular belief there are rather powerful and interesting builds that get the job done that dont actually end up as Flavor of the Month builds.

Zinaroth

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

@Nifty2g I see you once again advocating Templars are fine and that DKs have been destroyed as a class. Are you completely oblivious to how poor a state Stamplars are in atm, and how Stamina DKs are the kings in 1v1? Overall you're still better off playing a DK whether you want to; DPS, 1v1, 1vX or tank. The only job a Templar excels in compared to the DK is healing, and that is obviously as magicka. Let me make a quick comparison herr so we don't confuse apples and oranges.
1v1: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar > Mag DK
1vX: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Mag DK > Stam Templar
DPS: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Tank: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Healing: Mag Templar > Mag DK
This is how the two classes compare in performance at the moment. This is the generally accepted truth withing the PvE and PvP communities at the moment.
How in all of Tamriel does this lead you to conclude that Templars are mostly fine and that DKs are ruined?
I think you need to reevalute your thought process along with the people in this thread who agreed with you.
Sorry for the direct approach but I am reading a lot of your misinformation on threads around on these forums in regards to how *** DKs are and how Templars are fine, neither of them obviously are fine at the moment compared to NBs and Sorcs, but you're still better off atm if you rolled a DK unless you're planning on going full healbot mode. That statement is irrefutably true, and everyone here knows it.

You seem to very misunderstand me, and it just sounds like you're wanting to make the class very overpowered, let me guess you main and play only a Templar? I play every class but main a Templar I can see the weaknesses with the class and the strengths. There are a lot of weaknesses I posted my thoughts on the class in the Templar issues thread which I will put a spoiler in here

Nifty2g wrote: »

Hey thanks for tagging me in here
Because my reply is going to be fairly large I want you to have a read @ZOS_GinaBruno or point someone to this post. I posted In @wrobel thread but I believe that was skipped over and missed out on their meeting unfortunately, because this is a fresh thread I'll share some more insight.

First off guys, lets not say skills are useless, they have uses but have been cut down due to constant exploiting, ZOS for the most part don't know how to deal with this so they make changes to defeat the exploits which dulls down the use of the said ability, that being said I will contribute my thoughts.

Secondly I want to stress that I am not asking for Templars to be incredibly overpowered, I'm asking for fixes to make the class how it used to be, this class was the most diverse in ESO, since then we are taking nerfs for absolutely no reason. In short, ZOS you are slowly making this diverse class very linear. You need to stop, when something is being exploited, fix the thing being exploited not destroy the class synergy.

Adjusting Templar Skills
1a) Vampires Bane: This right now is on my top priority list because this skill deals Fire Damage whereas the whole Templar toolkit is Magic Damage, this needs to be adjusted accordingly as it is a strong DoT and Templar's don't exactly get a use out of Damage over Time effects but this would bring the class up to where others are on a competitive standpoint.

1b) Javelin: This skill needs a complete overhaul maybe remove it similar to Blinding Flashes, maybe we could see a unique Extended Chains type skill for a Templar using the divine light to pull an enemy to you. Anything you do to this current skill's state will be completely subpar and not used by most Templars mainly because our main attack Puncturing Sweeps/Biting Jabs causes CC immunity and is a Melee damaging skill, this is designed to be a ranged attack - a very weak one at that.

1c) Puncturing Sweeps: This attack needs to be able to critically heal - with an ICD on the critical chance

1d) Breath of Life: This skill was amazing, you need to bring back the instant cast/heal on this, telling us to "anticipate damage" just doesn't work in a dynamic playing environment, it also seems like you guys didn't want to take the time to fix the skill up.

1e) Blazing Shield / Sun Shield: This was being largely exploited in Cyrodill by a lot of players, especially Emperors, this skill was looked at and changed very badly in a quick rush what it seems like it. Blazing Shield should have had the damage dealt reduced and stronger shield. Sun Shield should also deal less damage and the shield strength should be increased as it is right now this shield is a pity excuse for a shield, it doesn't do anything and the time it is active is very little. We have no defense as it stands right now. This needs to be adjusted, the shield strength has to be increased and damage reduced. That would be the perfect fix for this, we don't rely on a shield doing damage, we rely on shields to soak up damage.

1f) Toppling Charge: As stated this skill is working very oddly.

Adjusting Templar Passives
2a) Balanced Warrior: This increases your Spell Resistance and Weapon Damage - seeing as it's name is Balanced Warrior can we also add Spell Damage and Physical Resistance to the mix as well?

2b) Mending: I just wanted to bring this up again I know it will most likely be on the ignore list, but we are Templars, we are healers that is the main point of the class, to have stronger heals. This passive needs to apply to the overall class and any healing ability. Regardless, it was not unbalanced it also gave Templars a good use in groups, I'm seeing less and less of them.

Adjusting Templar Ultimates
3a) Crescent Sweep: This would possibly the most unused skill in all of ESO, this skill needs to be changed to act similar to Soul Harvest where it grants additional ultimate or a damage increase on effected targets.

That's all I have for now guys, I hope ZOS reads this and makes these changes to the class it would be great.

Also, just because Stamina Dragonknights are good doesn't mean that Magicka Dragonknights are.

1v1: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar > Mag DK
1vX: Stam DK > Mag Templar > Mag DK > Stam Templar
DPS: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Tank: Mag DK > Stam DK > Mag Templar > Stam Templar
Healing: Mag Templar > Mag DK

This little chart is made up from your opinion and those players around you, not based on the whole game. I disagree with a lot of it

Maybe I misunderstand you, and maybe you also realize how Templars need a buff, but I am certainly not wanting the class to become OP, and no I play several other classes I just didn't list every character I have on the forums. Taken all this in mind though then I don't understand why you basically said this earlier in the thread:

Nifty2g wrote: »

Templars are fine, however sweeps needs to be buffed the damage is not extreme and should take into consideration of it being a cone attack. We need to be able to Critical hit shields, not being able to negates a lot of classes back up to my example of Templars, not being able to critical hit makes sweeps and self sustain nil - but this has been mentioned a lot and I believe is coming. Templars need charge fixed, certain abilities reworked and also OP execute starts at <25% that's when you see the big ticks happen.

And lastly Dragonknight a prime example of not knowing how to balance a class and nerfing them into the ground, but at this time you can't buff what you already nerfed, so you need to go back to the drawing board and give it a class overhaul. Admit it, this is where you screwed up by listening to the community. - I have nothing else to say for Dragonknights I just outright dislike what has been done to this class without probable thinking about it for both PvE and PvP aspects.

This is the same as saying; Templars are fine, just need a few tweaks but DKs need major buffs, then later on in the same post you say you miss the 1.5 times. So you miss wiping whole raids with DKs? Rofl, right.

Nowhere do you recognize the struggle Stamplars are in or what a good position Stam DKs are in. My "little chart" might be based on what people around me say, but it is still a pretty accurate picture on the balance between the two classes at the moment. You will recognize that the Magicka DK is placed pretty low aswell.

You aren't exactly painting a whole picture either, and it's obvious you have an agenda to get magicka DKs back to the abominations they were in 1.5, or something simular.

But let's just agree that both DKs and Templars need some love in each their way, and then I hope they will listen more to me when it comes to fixing Stamplars because you obviously didn't include them in your equation, and that they will keep the Stam DK in mind when looking at the DK class as a whole.

Is the whole part of my post flying over your head and you are reading this only "Templars are fine". I'm listing what is wrong with the classes, Stamina is currently broken for every class and will be adjusted with physical damage mitigation.

I don't main a Dragoknight and never really have. But I think this thread speaks for itself with the issues on Dragonknight http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/219520/the-death-of-the-dragonknight-updated-12-15/p1'

Not sure what you're trying to argue with me, I agree templar need adjustments and so do Dragonknights.

I have no opinion on Stamina ever since ZOS introduced the grand return of Stamina it's been broken as *** and theres been hardly any changes to it so I'm not even going to bother with that incompetence it's just a broken record

Stamina Templars need more than just fixes that go out to stamina in general. It is currently contending for weakest build atm along with the magicka DK. If you can aknowledge that magicak DKs are doing bad, but can't aknowledge the same for Stamplars then you really do not realize what is needed for the Templar class. All your fixes are focused towards magicka templar and will not help stamina templars become more viable. It would be the same as me saying that DKs are fine solely based off the performance of Stamina DKs.

We both agree the classes need help, but to me it seems you're neglecting that there's stamina versions aswell and are basing all your arguments and what needs buffing/fixing around the classes solely based on their performance when build into magicka.

I have a feeling you are just telling yourself what you want to hear lol, I'm not neglecting anything what parts don't you understand? How are you getting anything I am saying from your responses, you make it sound like I'm arguing with anything you are saying

I'll bold it

I have no opinion on Stamina ever since ZOS introduced the grand return of Stamina it's been broken as *** and theres been hardly any changes to it so I'm not even going to bother with that incompetence it's just a broken record

The Analysis: That basically says it's broken, I don't play stamina and it obviously needs fixing I just have no opinion on what it needs fixing specifically as I don't play it, if I did play it, I would give proper feedback for it

All of my fixes are things that will help the Magicka side, as for Stamina Templars I have a question for you, what is bad about them? Last time I played one was in Maelstrom Arena and it was possibly the easiest thing I've ever done. So at least back up what you're saying with what is wrong with Stamina Templars

Just like you referred me to a thread on what was wrong with Magicka DKs I will now refer you to the thread that will tell you everything you need to know about how Stamplar are underperforming, because as you know, there is no short answer for this and I don't feel like writing an essay again.

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/234362/templar-issues-thread/p1

Also regarding the vMA thing: Of all the stamina classes the Stamplars have the hardest time in there, Alcast will confirm this and if there is a guy who has tested that *** to death with all classes as stamina it is him, he has tons of videos on it on YouTube. Magicka classes are all performing better than stamina in there, even magicka DKs, aslong as they utilize Healing Ward. This pretty much places Stamplar at the bottom. You play magicka, yet you say the clear with your Stamplar was the easiest thing you have ever done? Everyone knows Magicka Templars outpeform Stamplars in PvE, and especially in solo content. Sound to me like you're just exagerating now to further your point and making up stuff because you're annoyed with me opposing you.

No you're not arguing with what I am saying, I am arguing with what you're saying; that Stamplars are fine but Magicka DKs are not, they are both equally *** at the moment.

In one post you say that Stamplars are fine and stamina in general is overperforming, in the next you say that you don't play stamina really so you're not qualified to say, and then in the next you give this exaguration on how clearing vMA with a Stamplar is the easiest thing you have ever done, come on man...

I see you are telling yourself what you want to hear, I never said stamplars are fine, I've made no comment on it.

Regarding VMA: You are basing your argument on one person, I guess you don't have much knowledge but the in the Top 3 spots in Maelstrom Arena #2 and #3 for Templars belong to Stamina Templars. (World Wide). I am currently #4 I stopped running this place for about month now, I was #2 and guess what I do not use Healing Ward neither do the top players for Sorcerers or Nightblades, I believe only Dragonknights use it.

For Dragonknight in the Top 3 #2 belongs to a Stamina Dragonknight (World Wide).

Am I making stuff up? No check out my videos, also in regards to VMA and Templars being the easiest I'll tell you why: Purify, Caltrops, Vigor, Steel Tornado, Biting Jabs, Blazing Shield. You can't base your argument from what 1 person says from when VMA first launched.

You also linked the same thread I linked you, majority of these are Magicka posts rather than Stamina ones.


Lets make a chart and discuss Stamina since you seem to be all about it - Skills only (excluding passives and ultimates)

Sorcerer
Defensive Skills

• Streak: (Increased magicka cost per cast bad for Stamina)
• Dark Deal: Converts Magic into Stamina and Health
• Thundering Presence: Movement Speed and AoE damage

Offensive Skills:

None?

Buffs

• Bound Armaments: Gives Max Stam and Heavy Attack Damage
• Critical Surge: Major Brutality

Dragonknight
Defensive Skills

• Petrify: Long lasting stun
• Dragon fire Scale: Reflects with 20% Damage Increase
• Igneous Shield: Shield + Stamina Return

Offensive Skills:

• Unstable Flame: Very strong Damage over Time
• Burning Breath: Damage over Time + Reduces Enemy Armor
  

Buffs

• Flames of Oblivion: Increases Critical Strike

Templar
Defensive Skills

• Purify: Removes up to 5 negative effects
• Blazing Shield: Damage Shield
• Repentance: Free cost + Restore stamina from bodies based on your Max Stamina
• Channel Focus + Restoring Focus: Restores Magicka, Gives you Major Resolve + Ward and 15% additional healing

Offensive Skills:

• Power of The Light: Reduces Enemy Armor/Spell Resistance
• Biting Jabs: Increases Critical Strike Rating
  

Buffs

None on their own; most buffs are in the Offensive and Defensive skills.

Nightblade
Defensive Skills

• Dark Cloak: Become invisible + Remove DoTs
• Mass Hysteria: Enemy snared and deals less damage when effect ends.
• Dark Shade + Shadow Image: Reduce Enemy Damage or Teleport to your Shade
• Siphoning Attacks: All attacks have a chance to restore Magicka and Stamina.
• Double Take + Mirage: Bonus movement speed on activation or increase armor and spell resistance.

Offensive Skills:

• Ambush: Gap closer + Grants Empower + Immobile
• Piercing + Reapers Mark: Increased duration and you can see the target if they stealth or go invisible or Gain damage bonus and a bigger heal when killing marked target.
• Surprise Attack: Reduces target’s armor on hit.

Buffs

• Relentless Focus:Gain Stamina Regeneration + Increase Damage

Alright, so based on this evaluation, Stamina Sorcerer needs the most work. From now on make sure your posts are not biased, for ZOS to hear you out, you need to look at all the classes instead of asking for an overall buff.

I am waiting for the PTS to hit and after I see those changes I will make an entire thread dedicated to comparing the Templar with other classes, mainly focusing on Stamina, including passives. Look out for that if you want to participate in that discussion, until then I will let our little dispute over class/build balance rest here as neither of us are willing to agree with the sentiments the other is presenting.

KramUzibra

Anhedonie wrote: »

Just a quick question based on your chart.
You do realise that the same abilities with different visual effects won't do anything good to the game, right? That's what happend to wow and it turned out...not very good.
We need counterweights, not the same skill sets.
Feel free to disagree ofcourse.

Yes thank you, completely agree.

KramUzibra

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks so much for the feedback, @NVNiko (and the rest of M12)! We'll be sure to pass this along to the team so they can take a look.

I feel you guys are doing a great job. If all classes were the same like the m12 guild seems to be shooting for then this game would lack diversity and thus become boring.