ATTN: ZOS ~~Mega Post of Issues with the Game and its Current Problems with Balance!!!

Pheefs · January 2016

Tandor wrote: »

NVNiko wrote: »

Not exactly the same skill but every class deserves some sort of decent self heal, cc, or inta-cast damage ability.

Why? What's wrong with each class having its own role? Why does everyone want to have everything these days...

if you want the personal heals you can get them from guild skill lines.

& in a perfect world any on-level duel across classes would be won by the better fighter.

ArvenAldmeri · January 2016

This is overall very nice post but you missed few things there. Sorcerer execute has the lowest damage of all executes in the game, takes 1 second to proc and that is only BELOW 20%, meaning that at 20% its still not execute damage. And if the target that felt below 20% heals himself in that one second the execute does not proc anymore.

Titan1373 · January 2016

Is it just me or is this a secret buff sorcs thread. Reading through your suggestions all you'do do is make sorcs unstoppable lol. Nice try.

ArvenAldmeri · January 2016

Titan1373 wrote: »

Is it just me or is this a secret buff sorcs thread. Reading through your suggestions all you'do do is make sorcs unstoppable lol. Nice try.

Someone got killed by sorc in pvp it seems :P

Titan1373 · January 2016

[/quote]

Someone got killed by sorc in pvp it seems :P [/quote]

I am a sorcerer lol. I'd suggest reading before commenting. Let's leave the best defense, move ability, and ultimate, while giving them self heals, instant spammable dps to proc frags, long range spammable dps, instant aoe dps, and a dot. I'm sure any competent sorcerer would gladly take that while having a slight deduction to crystal frags. Did you even read bro?

ArvenAldmeri · January 2016

Titan1373 wrote: »

Someone got killed by sorc in pvp it seems :P [/quote]

I am a sorcerer lol. I'd suggest reading before commenting. Let's leave the best defense, move ability, and ultimate, while giving them self heals, instant spammable dps to proc frags, long range spammable dps, instant aoe dps, and a dot. I'm sure any competent sorcerer would gladly take that while having a slight deduction to crystal frags. Did you even read bro?[/quote]

I am not your "bro". And no, I dont want every single ability for sorc. I am fine with sorc not having single target dot or heal or other 2 things sorc is missing. All I want for sorc is to fix mages wrath and get a spammable comparable to what other classes have so that I dont have to use destro staff all the time. Or at least destro staff getting more spell damage because swords having more spell damage is just nonsense.
As for your question if I read - I do read only what I want and since I dont have mood or energy to read all the comment I was just reading the op post and commenting on it and exactly after my comment which was about sorc (because obviously, sorc is my main focus) you react by saying that this is secret sorc post. LOL. I would suggest you reading the op in the first place, maybe you would see its not only about sorcerers.

Titan1373 · January 2016

ArvenAldmeri wrote: »

Titan1373 wrote: »

Someone got killed by sorc in pvp it seems :P

I am a sorcerer lol. I'd suggest reading before commenting. Let's leave the best defense, move ability, and ultimate, while giving them self heals, instant spammable dps to proc frags, long range spammable dps, instant aoe dps, and a dot. I'm sure any competent sorcerer would gladly take that while having a slight deduction to crystal frags. Did you even read bro?[/quote]

I am not your "bro". And no, I dont want every single ability for sorc. I am fine with sorc not having single target dot or heal or other 2 things sorc is missing. All I want for sorc is to fix mages wrath and get a spammable comparable to what other classes have so that I dont have to use destro staff all the time. Or at least destro staff getting more spell damage because swords having more spell damage is just nonsense.
As for your question if I read - I do read only what I want and since I dont have mood or energy to read all the comment I was just reading the op post and commenting on it and exactly after my comment which was about sorc (because obviously, sorc is my main focus) you react by saying that this is secret sorc post. LOL. I would suggest you reading the op in the first place, maybe you would see its not only about sorcerers.[/quote]

@ statement. Try reading bro.

old_mufasa · January 2016

Them problem with the current "balance" is that some class's do almost everything that's critical to gameplay.. some are missing it.. that's the problem..

Every class should be able to do everything BUT.. some do it better then others.. you can do this and still keep flavor.. having half the class's with no direct self heal is kinda odd..

Or you end up with people thinking, Templars are healers only or DK should be tanks only.. as there uniqueness gets them pigeonholed in to mass thinking that they only do well with one roll.

Though for me I think I rather them just add a 4th skill tree to each class one that shores up the lack of tank/healing options. maybe a tank tree in one of the class that's dedicated to taunting and cc effects. Need another class that can heal through class skills would be nice as well.

MaxwellC · January 2016

Zinaroth wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Zinaroth Stam DKs are the #1 1v1 when it comes to utilizing block casting reverb/piece or ransack/into bash.
"everyone" doesn't agree with your statement. Stam DKs aside from the reverb move set mainly rely on wrecking blow for DPS.
I've only played DK and as a stam DK NBs are the most annoying to fight as all they do is cloak/teleport out of AoE and range you down. Sorry mate I can't keep my wings up too long especially when the damage mitigation reflect is 100% useless thanks to cloak.

Nothing wrong with utilizing a skill outside your class tree when it comes to a single or two specific purposes, DKs have a lot of awesome class skills they utilizie aswell, do you know how many class skills a Stamplar uses? Two! DKs are far better off in this aspect.

Let me stop you right here. Do you know how many class abilities stam DKs can utilize for DPS in PvP? NONE. Yes none we have 2 stamina morph abilities that are DoTs that are easily healed over or purged/cloaked/shield stacked on. The only other ability a stam DK would use is reflective scale which is a bugged out skill that is soo I mean completely unstable its ridiculous (look at all the videos on youtube when they nerf'd scales thanks to QQers like probably yourself, now it sometimes reflects comets/projectiles).
Stamplar has one hell of a jab ability when you combine it with movement impairments like caltrops or stampede. I'm very curious at to what awesome class abilities you speak of that a stam DK could utilize aside from 1 decent ultimate that thankfully hasn't been nerf'd yet COMPARED TO EVERY SINGLE ULTIMATE WE HAVE SO FAR AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON ALL THE SKILLS WE HAVE NERF'D BECAUSE we've got like 3 or 4 skills across ardent flames,draconic power, and earthen heart that have yet to be nerf'd; what does that tell you?

Lol and stamplars can still use heals and be effective, what kind of heals do we DKs get? Oh yeah I know Dragons blood that heals you for roughly 16% of your MAX HEALTH LOL (In PvP)
Oh and don't get me started on the double damage reduction DoTs do thanks to CP (DoT/elemental resistance)

Zinaroth · January 2016

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Zinaroth Stam DKs are the #1 1v1 when it comes to utilizing block casting reverb/piece or ransack/into bash.
"everyone" doesn't agree with your statement. Stam DKs aside from the reverb move set mainly rely on wrecking blow for DPS.
I've only played DK and as a stam DK NBs are the most annoying to fight as all they do is cloak/teleport out of AoE and range you down. Sorry mate I can't keep my wings up too long especially when the damage mitigation reflect is 100% useless thanks to cloak.

Nothing wrong with utilizing a skill outside your class tree when it comes to a single or two specific purposes, DKs have a lot of awesome class skills they utilizie aswell, do you know how many class skills a Stamplar uses? Two! DKs are far better off in this aspect.

Let me stop you right here. Do you know how many class abilities stam DKs can utilize for DPS in PvP? NONE. Yes none we have 2 stamina morph abilities that are DoTs that are easily healed over or purged/cloaked/shield stacked on. The only other ability a stam DK would use is reflective scale which is a bugged out skill that is soo I mean completely unstable its ridiculous (look at all the videos on youtube when they nerf'd scales thanks to QQers like probably yourself, now it sometimes reflects comets/projectiles).
Stamplar has one hell of a jab ability when you combine it with movement impairments like caltrops or stampede. I'm very curious at to what awesome class abilities you speak of that a stam DK could utilize aside from 1 decent ultimate that thankfully hasn't been nerf'd yet COMPARED TO EVERY SINGLE ULTIMATE WE HAVE SO FAR AND DON'T GET ME STARTED ON ALL THE SKILLS WE HAVE NERF'D BECAUSE we've got like 3 or 4 skills across ardent flames,draconic power, and earthen heart that have yet to be nerf'd; what does that tell you?

Lol and stamplars can still use heals and be effective, what kind of heals do we DKs get? Oh yeah I know Dragons blood that heals you for roughly 16% of your MAX HEALTH LOL (In PvP)
Oh and don't get me started on the double damage reduction DoTs do thanks to CP (DoT/elemental resistance)

As a DK you have to look to Wrecking Blow for damage, yes, but it is not a bad alternative at all when coupled with your class arsenal.

A Templar's Jabs does reduced damage on shielded targets and the crit proc from it is also useless on shielded targets since you cannot crit shields. Burning Light will not proc on shielded targets either and the healing portion of the magicka morph doesn't work either when the target is shielded, making this damage ability very handicapped in PvP.

Purifying Light is pretty damn awesome, not going to lie about that.

Dks have three awesome ultimates, two of which are really good in 1v1 and 1vX; Dragon Leap and Corrosive Armor, Standard is awesome in PvE, not so much in PvP. All three Templar ultimates are useless, I have however noticed some people using the healing ultimate in duels, can't comment on its functionality here, haven't used it myself and most Stamplars I talk with who duel agree on the sentiment that you're better off using your ultimate offensively.

What heals are you referring to that Stamplars can use and be effective? Breath of Life will heal for 2-3k on a stamina build, otherwise we're stuck with Vigor and Rally like all stamina builds. None of our healing passives will boost the healing from those two abilities. So contrary to popular belief, Stamplar do not benefit from being a "healing class" at all, as you will realize reading this Stamina DKs actually have better healing capabilities than a Stamina Templar, which is pretty ridiculous.

DKs also has a super awesome defensive buff, whereas Templars get one in the form of a ground targeted effect, and since you're always on the move in PvP it is effectively an 8 second buff that needs to be renewed constantly, and since you're not running this on your main bar you will be weapon swapping to pop it, meaning even more down time buffing. The morph effects only work if you're standing inside the rune, which you will never be doing.

Repentance is useless in PvP since it needs a lot of corpses to be worth slotting, this is certainly the case in PvE, but not so much in PvP.

DoT effects are very useless in PvP right now, I agree, nevertheless I do see the top notch Stam DK dueling builds utilize the flame stike DoT to put out a bit more pressure during burst situations

I see some Stamina Templars also utilizing Javeling so I guess that has to be mentioned aswell eventhough it's questionable like your DoT.

Not to forget DKs also getting an awesome AoE immobilize in the forms of Talons which so easily can lock down a Jabs spammer and a self buff that incrases heavy attack damage, which believe it or not, can be very good even in PvP

So Stamina DKs are getting:
A utility skill to reflect projectiles (buggy as it may be sometimes eventhough I haven't heard people complaining about it much, as a Templar I can relate to buggy skills though)
Fosilize which is an awesome CC
An ability that grants you a minor shield and Major Mending buffing the healing you do with Vigor and Rally
Two awesome ultimates for defense and offense, one being the only physical damage ultimate in the game
A 20 second armor buff with beneficial morph effects
A stamina DoT effect
An AoE immobilize
A buff that increases heavy attack damage by 43%

Templars are getting:
A stamina damage ability that is very questionable in its performance and semi easy to avoid if you know what you're doing, nevertheless a class based DPS ability
An awesome purge ability
A 2 second knockdown ability which only works if you're very careful with not granting people CC immunity with Jabs
A 8 second armor buff with useless morphs

This is not even taking into consideration class passives which HEAVILY favour DKs both in terms of damage but even more important; in terms of sustain. DKs have so much sustain from passives compared to Templars who only get 4% reduced cost, and that is it.

Not sure what else to tell you, comparing Stamina Templars and Stamina DKs is a pretty uneven match. If we were to compare Stamina DKs and Magicka Templars things would be a bit more even, Stamina DKs would still come out on top though.

Magicka DKs are the ones that need some serious love when it comes to PvP viability, along with Stamina Templars. Magicka Templars are doing "okay" aslong as they're not running solo and Stamina DKs are more than fine.

MaxwellC · January 2016

@Zinaroth
You seem to have lost me here I was certain you referred to all abilities "Stamina" related not magicka damage. Fossilize may be a good CC ability but how many times can you use this in a fight which immediately drains your magicka thus not allowing you to use your reflective ability which can be sent back at you if you have bolster defence.

Lol you actually said our standard is good for PvE (which it is) but we're discussing PvP not PvE stay on topic here mate stop trying to make this benefit your case soley.

Take flight is a decent ultimate too bad if you're move slightly back it doesn't affect you and completely misses on top of it being glitched out 90% of the time (welcome to check clips about this on Youtube too). Take flight's tooltip seems great but it's completely dodge-able at medium distances/long distances and at short range well you can dodge it too move slightly to the left or right or back up a bit.

Corrosive Armor lasts for 10 seconds so what's stopping you from CCing me, it's not like the ultimate gives me CC immunity. All you do is knock me down then I break free that right there is already 4 seconds give or take and by the time I move myself to you to do 1 hit it's over so don't even consider that ability. In duels only those who rock 1H/board use this ability for mitigation.

Hardened armor is a decent ability in PvE but in PvP it's pretty useless against those with crit builds as they slice through said hardened armor like cheese. People who do 1v1 do use that ability to mitigate a certain portion of damage but nontheless it's typically a waste of a slot unless you're rocking 3 inf 4 impen.

Cinder storm I'm guessing you're referring to that it use to be a good ability but is utter trash given the diameter of said ability is much smaller than Caltrops

Molt arm is risky with stamina attacks as you can literally see it hitting you and if you block or dodge that 43% is no longer in affect oh and if you heal slightly over that 50% threshold (which is easy) it doesn't proc.

All those skills aside from the ultimate so far are Magicka abilities, again I thought you were talking about stamina abilities so let's keep it the way you said before "Stam DK" we're not talking about magicka Dk because no matter what I've got 3 hardened armors 2 molt arm/ cinder storms before I run out of magicka. In-case you didn't realize that's using them separately. Let's keep this stamina related shall we because we have no good decent stamina abilities but you claim other wise as if we do. In duels I have never seen a DK vs another class (unless another DK) using DoTs. Also don't bring a ability that every class can use because templars use Wrecking blow too

I've seen plenty of stamplars use breath of life to fill up their health maybe I'm missing something here. Jabs I do know sometimes they don't connect but like I said with movement impairment it's practically over unless you get out of the affecting area.

I'm not sure what sustain you're getting at as we only get spell resistance and health regen. Now the earthen heart passive line is pretty damn awesome compared to draconic and ardent flame which can be debateable but are fairly useless.
Looking through templar you've got some pretty nice passives from at-least two skill lines burning light as stated and one that reduces cost off magicka/stamina/ult cost, increase weapon damage and ulti regen.

When we talk about sustain please refer to what kind of regeneration we get via stamina/magicka becauase as far as I know unless they recently patched it in (yesterday) we have no stamina/magicka regen via passive. We do use earthen heart abilities to gain 5% stamina and that's it.

MaxwellC · January 2016

Oh and Stam DK is only "Powerful" because people see the abilities like hardened armor and expect other DKs to run hardened armor + shuffle on top of the fact they think take flight is some GODLY powerful Ulti in PvP when it's utterly pathetic as you could slightly move out of it's range and it's a miss or you could dodge it and dodge roll it.

Wrecking blow isn't a DK move nor is steel tornado/focus aim.

Stam DKs have two Dot based skills that do nothing for damage as 3.3k *50% well you see where this is going and the DoT damage is reduced by BS and CP Thick skin/elemental.

How will Stam DKs get stronger? If they give us a attribute whip (so magicka DK can thrive too), if they make stone giant a stamina morph, if they make DoTs explode or give minor/major defile upon purge/heal/shield, and if they un-nerf a lot of abilities that we use to utilize one being "Flames of Oblivion"

Nifty2g · January 2016

Too many people playing 1 class and trying to get it buffed in this thread and not knowing how others work

Malmai · January 2016

NVNiko wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno

These are the collaborative opinions of the guild "M12", not a single streamer or 1 v X'r such as Fengrush, Sypher, or King Richard. We should be focusing on the opinions to the Majority of ESO players and just one field of Gameplay. M12 is a community of 500 "Active" guild members on the AD NA server most of which have been known to top the Leaderboards in both PVE and PVP content over the duration from the game from beta until today. We have been quiet for awhile but it's time for our voice to be heard and answered from ZOS and the community and this is the reason for this post.

Class Abilities

Chart describing imbalances between classes >https://www.dropbox.com/s/bnc7qpewlgwy7pk/ESO balance.docx?dl=0
(Great chart submitted by @GreyBrow )

The important thing to keep in mind is that these changes only require the modification of 15 skills. Each class ahs 15 skills iwth two possible morph choices, which provides 30 different options. If these changes were implemented, it would allow for the possibility of each class to have access to the same BASIC skill set, while still providing unique class identity through the remaining 15 morph options, ultimates, passives, itemization, armor type and weapon skill lines. Clearly, this is the most logical approach to solving the problems of class balance, at least initially, eliminating the QQ that "this or that is OP" while still allowing for class identity and satisfying the issue of class equality and "play how you want"

--Major Resolve needs to be uniform across all classes, specifically the nightblade and the templar which should be able to ingnite the Major resolve buff comparable to the way Dragon Knights and Sorcerer's can.

--Every class should have an intant-cast skill that does immediate damage on cast. Specifically the Sorcerer which has no instant cast abilities that do damage on cast comparable to flame whip, funnel health, surprise attack, or puncturing sweep. Instead Sorcs have to rely on force pulse where the other classes do not.

--Templars need a hard crowd control ability comparable to the other classes. Certain primary class abilities should be uniform across all classes.
Shields

- Every Class should have the ability to play as a DPS, Tank or Healer comparably as envisioned by Zenimax's original game model. Certain classes should have certain advantages and disadvantages when it comes to each role of the game: Tanking, Damage dealing, and healing. And at the same time be able to have similar mitigation, dps, and heals

- Magicka and Stamina users should have separate morphs in class trees this way stamina and magicka users have equal opportunities when creating build and not being penalized for being a magicka or stamina user. Each user should have equal opportunities in thier style of play.

OverFlow Damage-"Damage shields in ESO absorb unmitigated damage (don't factor in armor, spell resist, etc). If a player has 1k damage left on their shield, but is facing an incoming attack dealing 10k unmitigated damage, the shield will absorb that 1k while the remaining 9k hits the player directly without factoring in their armor, spell resist, etc. This is not something players can affect (e.g. by relogging) but is how damage shields work in the game. Best way around is to spam your damage shields so they are always refreshed. For the same reason, the damage shield glyphs on weapons are terrible choices because it will likely cause you to take more damage rather than less since the shield is so small virtually any incoming attack will go through mostly unmitigated."

Players want the ability to crit against shields and proc specific class dps passives (*Burning Light) against shields, if this is the case shields need to be buffed in someway to compensate for the extra damage from the crits and procs, maybe a 75% shield in pvp.
http://gamerelated.info/2015/08/25/elder-scrolls-online-long-standing-bugsissues-that-all-players-should-be-aware-of/

Magicka VS Stamina Imbalances

Light Armor Vs Medium Armor - Besides the differences in actual physical armor the passives each type of armor get are not even comparable. The Agility passive gives 12% more weapon damage where the Concentration passive only gets 4884 Spell Penetraion. The Concentration passive needs to get buffed by offering more Penetration or Spell Damage

Spell Damage Vs Weapon Damage - More or less Weapon damage users have about 1000 more raw damage over magicka builds. This is a huge imbalance especially when it comes to aoe's that have more range

Elemental Ring Vs Steel Tornado - Steel Tornado has a range of 12.5 meters which actually hits for 490 square meters and Elemental Ring has a range of 6 meters which hits at 113 sq meters. The imbalance in range and coupled with the imbalance in raw damage makes magicka users half as effective than stamina users in aoe situations. Besides that Stamina users also get there damaged buffed by the ruffian passive as well as the Duel Weld execute while while both morphs of elemental ring get purged!!

Flawless Dawnbreaker - 8% more raw damage for Stamina users where Magicka users have no equivalent that comes close to this. This skill needs to be changed or give something comparable to magicka users.

Champion Points
Spell Damage Mitigation VS Physical Damage Mitigation - We have 2 perks that mitigate spell damage which are Elemental Defender and Hardy. But when it comes to physical mitigation we only have the armor perks which gives us diminished returns specifically on light armor/magicka users

I hear discrete Nerf Screams, there is nothing you offered to make game better you are just making your own opinion how OP one class is over another ?

Zinaroth · January 2016

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Zinaroth
You seem to have lost me here I was certain you referred to all abilities "Stamina" related not magicka damage. Fossilize may be a good CC ability but how many times can you use this in a fight which immediately drains your magicka thus not allowing you to use your reflective ability which can be sent back at you if you have bolster defence.

Lol you actually said our standard is good for PvE (which it is) but we're discussing PvP not PvE stay on topic here mate stop trying to make this benefit your case soley.

Take flight is a decent ultimate too bad if you're move slightly back it doesn't affect you and completely misses on top of it being glitched out 90% of the time (welcome to check clips about this on Youtube too). Take flight's tooltip seems great but it's completely dodge-able at medium distances/long distances and at short range well you can dodge it too move slightly to the left or right or back up a bit.

Corrosive Armor lasts for 10 seconds so what's stopping you from CCing me, it's not like the ultimate gives me CC immunity. All you do is knock me down then I break free that right there is already 4 seconds give or take and by the time I move myself to you to do 1 hit it's over so don't even consider that ability. In duels only those who rock 1H/board use this ability for mitigation.

Hardened armor is a decent ability in PvE but in PvP it's pretty useless against those with crit builds as they slice through said hardened armor like cheese. People who do 1v1 do use that ability to mitigate a certain portion of damage but nontheless it's typically a waste of a slot unless you're rocking 3 inf 4 impen.

Cinder storm I'm guessing you're referring to that it use to be a good ability but is utter trash given the diameter of said ability is much smaller than Caltrops

Molt arm is risky with stamina attacks as you can literally see it hitting you and if you block or dodge that 43% is no longer in affect oh and if you heal slightly over that 50% threshold (which is easy) it doesn't proc.

All those skills aside from the ultimate so far are Magicka abilities, again I thought you were talking about stamina abilities so let's keep it the way you said before "Stam DK" we're not talking about magicka Dk because no matter what I've got 3 hardened armors 2 molt arm/ cinder storms before I run out of magicka. In-case you didn't realize that's using them separately. Let's keep this stamina related shall we because we have no good decent stamina abilities but you claim other wise as if we do. In duels I have never seen a DK vs another class (unless another DK) using DoTs. Also don't bring a ability that every class can use because templars use Wrecking blow too

I've seen plenty of stamplars use breath of life to fill up their health maybe I'm missing something here. Jabs I do know sometimes they don't connect but like I said with movement impairment it's practically over unless you get out of the affecting area.

I'm not sure what sustain you're getting at as we only get spell resistance and health regen. Now the earthen heart passive line is pretty damn awesome compared to draconic and ardent flame which can be debateable but are fairly useless.
Looking through templar you've got some pretty nice passives from at-least two skill lines burning light as stated and one that reduces cost off magicka/stamina/ult cost, increase weapon damage and ulti regen.

When we talk about sustain please refer to what kind of regeneration we get via stamina/magicka becauase as far as I know unless they recently patched it in (yesterday) we have no stamina/magicka regen via passive. We do use earthen heart abilities to gain 5% stamina and that's it.

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Oh and Stam DK is only "Powerful" because people see the abilities like hardened armor and expect other DKs to run hardened armor + shuffle on top of the fact they think take flight is some GODLY powerful Ulti in PvP when it's utterly pathetic as you could slightly move out of it's range and it's a miss or you could dodge it and dodge roll it.

Wrecking blow isn't a DK move nor is steel tornado/focus aim.

Stam DKs have two Dot based skills that do nothing for damage as 3.3k *50% well you see where this is going and the DoT damage is reduced by BS and CP Thick skin/elemental.

How will Stam DKs get stronger? If they give us a attribute whip (so magicka DK can thrive too), if they make stone giant a stamina morph, if they make DoTs explode or give minor/major defile upon purge/heal/shield, and if they un-nerf a lot of abilities that we use to utilize one being "Flames of Oblivion"

I said what I had to say. If you still think Stamina Templars are performing better than Stamina DKs in PvP, or have better odds, then it is your own choise to live in delusíon.

Nifty2g wrote: »

Too many people playing 1 class and trying to get it buffed in this thread and not knowing how others work

Euqally many people in general on this forum claiming in-depth knowledge with all classes to further their agenda of buffing one class; "because I play all classes equally much so I know what I am talking about".

Nifty2g · January 2016

Zinaroth wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Zinaroth
You seem to have lost me here I was certain you referred to all abilities "Stamina" related not magicka damage. Fossilize may be a good CC ability but how many times can you use this in a fight which immediately drains your magicka thus not allowing you to use your reflective ability which can be sent back at you if you have bolster defence.

Lol you actually said our standard is good for PvE (which it is) but we're discussing PvP not PvE stay on topic here mate stop trying to make this benefit your case soley.

Take flight is a decent ultimate too bad if you're move slightly back it doesn't affect you and completely misses on top of it being glitched out 90% of the time (welcome to check clips about this on Youtube too). Take flight's tooltip seems great but it's completely dodge-able at medium distances/long distances and at short range well you can dodge it too move slightly to the left or right or back up a bit.

Corrosive Armor lasts for 10 seconds so what's stopping you from CCing me, it's not like the ultimate gives me CC immunity. All you do is knock me down then I break free that right there is already 4 seconds give or take and by the time I move myself to you to do 1 hit it's over so don't even consider that ability. In duels only those who rock 1H/board use this ability for mitigation.

Hardened armor is a decent ability in PvE but in PvP it's pretty useless against those with crit builds as they slice through said hardened armor like cheese. People who do 1v1 do use that ability to mitigate a certain portion of damage but nontheless it's typically a waste of a slot unless you're rocking 3 inf 4 impen.

Cinder storm I'm guessing you're referring to that it use to be a good ability but is utter trash given the diameter of said ability is much smaller than Caltrops

Molt arm is risky with stamina attacks as you can literally see it hitting you and if you block or dodge that 43% is no longer in affect oh and if you heal slightly over that 50% threshold (which is easy) it doesn't proc.

All those skills aside from the ultimate so far are Magicka abilities, again I thought you were talking about stamina abilities so let's keep it the way you said before "Stam DK" we're not talking about magicka Dk because no matter what I've got 3 hardened armors 2 molt arm/ cinder storms before I run out of magicka. In-case you didn't realize that's using them separately. Let's keep this stamina related shall we because we have no good decent stamina abilities but you claim other wise as if we do. In duels I have never seen a DK vs another class (unless another DK) using DoTs. Also don't bring a ability that every class can use because templars use Wrecking blow too

I've seen plenty of stamplars use breath of life to fill up their health maybe I'm missing something here. Jabs I do know sometimes they don't connect but like I said with movement impairment it's practically over unless you get out of the affecting area.

I'm not sure what sustain you're getting at as we only get spell resistance and health regen. Now the earthen heart passive line is pretty damn awesome compared to draconic and ardent flame which can be debateable but are fairly useless.
Looking through templar you've got some pretty nice passives from at-least two skill lines burning light as stated and one that reduces cost off magicka/stamina/ult cost, increase weapon damage and ulti regen.

When we talk about sustain please refer to what kind of regeneration we get via stamina/magicka becauase as far as I know unless they recently patched it in (yesterday) we have no stamina/magicka regen via passive. We do use earthen heart abilities to gain 5% stamina and that's it.

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Oh and Stam DK is only "Powerful" because people see the abilities like hardened armor and expect other DKs to run hardened armor + shuffle on top of the fact they think take flight is some GODLY powerful Ulti in PvP when it's utterly pathetic as you could slightly move out of it's range and it's a miss or you could dodge it and dodge roll it.

Wrecking blow isn't a DK move nor is steel tornado/focus aim.

Stam DKs have two Dot based skills that do nothing for damage as 3.3k *50% well you see where this is going and the DoT damage is reduced by BS and CP Thick skin/elemental.

How will Stam DKs get stronger? If they give us a attribute whip (so magicka DK can thrive too), if they make stone giant a stamina morph, if they make DoTs explode or give minor/major defile upon purge/heal/shield, and if they un-nerf a lot of abilities that we use to utilize one being "Flames of Oblivion"

I said what I had to say. If you still think Stamina Templars are performing better than Stamina DKs in PvP, or have better odds, then it is your own choise to live in delusíon.

Nifty2g wrote: »

Too many people playing 1 class and trying to get it buffed in this thread and not knowing how others work

Euqally many people in general on this forum claiming in-depth knowledge with all classes to further their agenda of buffing one class; "because I play all classes equally much so I know what I am talking about".

If a Stamina Templar was going against a Stamina Dragonknight, tell me who would win and why - make sure to keep it unbiased

To me it sounds like you have trouble playing Stamina Templar, and you're basing your whole argument based on your own capabilities rather than knowing what makes it good/bad

Nifty2g · January 2016

My evaluation - Templar would win
The reason a Templar should win this would be because of Purify and Balanced Warrior Passive, if we put both classes in the same gear, Templars are going to come out stronger each time because of passives giving them stronger weapon damage. Dragonknight has access to Petrify, Leap and Wings, 2 DoTs but in this scenario the Wings and DoTs are useless.

So if Templar can counter a lot of skills and have access to high regen and weapon damage. What makes it weak?

You must know that you should have Biting Jabs and Wrecking Blow on your bar because of Piercing Spear (Increases the damage bonus for your Critical Strikes by (10)% and your damage against blocking targets by (10)%.) mix that with an Empowered Wrecking Blow and Balanced Warrior (Increases Weapon Damage by 6% and Spell Resistance by (2000)

Do you not read Templar Passives? Hit someone with Wrecking Blow then Biting Jabs as they are stunned with no shield for Burning Light procs as well would probably do the most damage theoretically

l2p dude and learn your class passives and how to utilize them, yes this is me saying Stamina Templars are in a fine spot the only issue would be Puncturing Sweeps / Biting Jabs being weak against shields, Toppling Charge needs a Stamina Morph and Burning Light needs to proc on shields.

Zinaroth · January 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Zinaroth
You seem to have lost me here I was certain you referred to all abilities "Stamina" related not magicka damage. Fossilize may be a good CC ability but how many times can you use this in a fight which immediately drains your magicka thus not allowing you to use your reflective ability which can be sent back at you if you have bolster defence.

Lol you actually said our standard is good for PvE (which it is) but we're discussing PvP not PvE stay on topic here mate stop trying to make this benefit your case soley.

Take flight is a decent ultimate too bad if you're move slightly back it doesn't affect you and completely misses on top of it being glitched out 90% of the time (welcome to check clips about this on Youtube too). Take flight's tooltip seems great but it's completely dodge-able at medium distances/long distances and at short range well you can dodge it too move slightly to the left or right or back up a bit.

Corrosive Armor lasts for 10 seconds so what's stopping you from CCing me, it's not like the ultimate gives me CC immunity. All you do is knock me down then I break free that right there is already 4 seconds give or take and by the time I move myself to you to do 1 hit it's over so don't even consider that ability. In duels only those who rock 1H/board use this ability for mitigation.

Hardened armor is a decent ability in PvE but in PvP it's pretty useless against those with crit builds as they slice through said hardened armor like cheese. People who do 1v1 do use that ability to mitigate a certain portion of damage but nontheless it's typically a waste of a slot unless you're rocking 3 inf 4 impen.

Cinder storm I'm guessing you're referring to that it use to be a good ability but is utter trash given the diameter of said ability is much smaller than Caltrops

Molt arm is risky with stamina attacks as you can literally see it hitting you and if you block or dodge that 43% is no longer in affect oh and if you heal slightly over that 50% threshold (which is easy) it doesn't proc.

All those skills aside from the ultimate so far are Magicka abilities, again I thought you were talking about stamina abilities so let's keep it the way you said before "Stam DK" we're not talking about magicka Dk because no matter what I've got 3 hardened armors 2 molt arm/ cinder storms before I run out of magicka. In-case you didn't realize that's using them separately. Let's keep this stamina related shall we because we have no good decent stamina abilities but you claim other wise as if we do. In duels I have never seen a DK vs another class (unless another DK) using DoTs. Also don't bring a ability that every class can use because templars use Wrecking blow too

I've seen plenty of stamplars use breath of life to fill up their health maybe I'm missing something here. Jabs I do know sometimes they don't connect but like I said with movement impairment it's practically over unless you get out of the affecting area.

I'm not sure what sustain you're getting at as we only get spell resistance and health regen. Now the earthen heart passive line is pretty damn awesome compared to draconic and ardent flame which can be debateable but are fairly useless.
Looking through templar you've got some pretty nice passives from at-least two skill lines burning light as stated and one that reduces cost off magicka/stamina/ult cost, increase weapon damage and ulti regen.

When we talk about sustain please refer to what kind of regeneration we get via stamina/magicka becauase as far as I know unless they recently patched it in (yesterday) we have no stamina/magicka regen via passive. We do use earthen heart abilities to gain 5% stamina and that's it.

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Oh and Stam DK is only "Powerful" because people see the abilities like hardened armor and expect other DKs to run hardened armor + shuffle on top of the fact they think take flight is some GODLY powerful Ulti in PvP when it's utterly pathetic as you could slightly move out of it's range and it's a miss or you could dodge it and dodge roll it.

Wrecking blow isn't a DK move nor is steel tornado/focus aim.

Stam DKs have two Dot based skills that do nothing for damage as 3.3k *50% well you see where this is going and the DoT damage is reduced by BS and CP Thick skin/elemental.

How will Stam DKs get stronger? If they give us a attribute whip (so magicka DK can thrive too), if they make stone giant a stamina morph, if they make DoTs explode or give minor/major defile upon purge/heal/shield, and if they un-nerf a lot of abilities that we use to utilize one being "Flames of Oblivion"

I said what I had to say. If you still think Stamina Templars are performing better than Stamina DKs in PvP, or have better odds, then it is your own choise to live in delusíon.

Nifty2g wrote: »

Too many people playing 1 class and trying to get it buffed in this thread and not knowing how others work

Euqally many people in general on this forum claiming in-depth knowledge with all classes to further their agenda of buffing one class; "because I play all classes equally much so I know what I am talking about".

If a Stamina Templar was going against a Stamina Dragonknight, tell me who would win and why - make sure to keep it unbiased

To me it sounds like you have trouble playing Stamina Templar, and you're basing your whole argument based on your own capabilities rather than knowing what makes it good/bad

The Stamina DK would win because he would be able to lock down the Stamplar in talons. As we all know Jabs can't be redirected unless you move your character. The stamina DK would also have superior healing through use of Igneous Shield which would boost his self healing. He would have more constant pressure through the use of his Unstable Flame, and more burst through use of Dragon Leap and Wrecking Blow. Now the Stamplar could also use Wrecking Blow, but he would still be stood in talons and the DK could easily maneuver behind him. The DK would also have better rescource management through the Battle Roar and Helping Hand passives. Petrify would help the DK immensely with controlling the Templar and landing those lethal Wrecking Blow -> Dragon Leap combinations. The DK would also have a 20 second armor buff with a small damage shield or damage on activation where Templar would have a simular buff only lasting 8 seconds. Granted the Templar could put down his Rune Focus when stood in Talons, but you never really want to be stood in Talons because that spells 'death' so you would still only get 8 seconds use of it.

The only thing speaking in the Stamplar's favour in this battle is Purifying Light, but it would need to be spammed to cleanse every DoT effect and talons, and opposed to Talons and DoT effects it does not do damage but some minor healing. In theory it would just be the two classes standing there spamming those abilities but in pracsis it looks totally different and the Templar would most likely run out of magicka before the DK, both because the Templar has higher cost on his abilities, but also because Stam DKs in general tend invest a bit more in magicka regen because they have magicka abilities that needs to be used frequently because they are very good. Oh and ofcourse, DK will have Minor Brutality and some extra ultimate regen up all the time from the Mountain's Blessing passive when using Igneous Shield where the Stamplar has a constant 6% increased weapon damage. So 1% more weapon damage versus the use of your ultimate more often, I will let you decide which is best.

Now it is your turn to tell me who would win - make sure to keep it unbiased.

To me it sounds like you're having trouble differentiating between me as a player and my concerns with Stamplar's performance, and instead you're trying to insinuate that I have trouble playing my class. Keep in mind, nowehere during our discussion did I hint at your capabilities as a player, only your understanding of Stamplars, which you yourself admitted you don't want to comment on. Yet you insist on demanding these in-depth arguments from me, but have provided none yourself other that criticism towards what I am saying.

So please, tell me, how are Stamplars just fine facing off for example a Stamina DK, and remember to keep it unbiased and give concrete examples.

Tomato · January 2016

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Zinaroth
You seem to have lost me here I was certain you referred to all abilities "Stamina" related not magicka damage. Fossilize may be a good CC ability but how many times can you use this in a fight which immediately drains your magicka thus not allowing you to use your reflective ability which can be sent back at you if you have bolster defence.

Lol you actually said our standard is good for PvE (which it is) but we're discussing PvP not PvE stay on topic here mate stop trying to make this benefit your case soley.

Take flight is a decent ultimate too bad if you're move slightly back it doesn't affect you and completely misses on top of it being glitched out 90% of the time (welcome to check clips about this on Youtube too). Take flight's tooltip seems great but it's completely dodge-able at medium distances/long distances and at short range well you can dodge it too move slightly to the left or right or back up a bit.

Corrosive Armor lasts for 10 seconds so what's stopping you from CCing me, it's not like the ultimate gives me CC immunity. All you do is knock me down then I break free that right there is already 4 seconds give or take and by the time I move myself to you to do 1 hit it's over so don't even consider that ability. In duels only those who rock 1H/board use this ability for mitigation.

Hardened armor is a decent ability in PvE but in PvP it's pretty useless against those with crit builds as they slice through said hardened armor like cheese. People who do 1v1 do use that ability to mitigate a certain portion of damage but nontheless it's typically a waste of a slot unless you're rocking 3 inf 4 impen.

Cinder storm I'm guessing you're referring to that it use to be a good ability but is utter trash given the diameter of said ability is much smaller than Caltrops

Molt arm is risky with stamina attacks as you can literally see it hitting you and if you block or dodge that 43% is no longer in affect oh and if you heal slightly over that 50% threshold (which is easy) it doesn't proc.

All those skills aside from the ultimate so far are Magicka abilities, again I thought you were talking about stamina abilities so let's keep it the way you said before "Stam DK" we're not talking about magicka Dk because no matter what I've got 3 hardened armors 2 molt arm/ cinder storms before I run out of magicka. In-case you didn't realize that's using them separately. Let's keep this stamina related shall we because we have no good decent stamina abilities but you claim other wise as if we do. In duels I have never seen a DK vs another class (unless another DK) using DoTs. Also don't bring a ability that every class can use because templars use Wrecking blow too

I've seen plenty of stamplars use breath of life to fill up their health maybe I'm missing something here. Jabs I do know sometimes they don't connect but like I said with movement impairment it's practically over unless you get out of the affecting area.

I'm not sure what sustain you're getting at as we only get spell resistance and health regen. Now the earthen heart passive line is pretty damn awesome compared to draconic and ardent flame which can be debateable but are fairly useless.
Looking through templar you've got some pretty nice passives from at-least two skill lines burning light as stated and one that reduces cost off magicka/stamina/ult cost, increase weapon damage and ulti regen.

When we talk about sustain please refer to what kind of regeneration we get via stamina/magicka becauase as far as I know unless they recently patched it in (yesterday) we have no stamina/magicka regen via passive. We do use earthen heart abilities to gain 5% stamina and that's it.

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Oh and Stam DK is only "Powerful" because people see the abilities like hardened armor and expect other DKs to run hardened armor + shuffle on top of the fact they think take flight is some GODLY powerful Ulti in PvP when it's utterly pathetic as you could slightly move out of it's range and it's a miss or you could dodge it and dodge roll it.

Wrecking blow isn't a DK move nor is steel tornado/focus aim.

Stam DKs have two Dot based skills that do nothing for damage as 3.3k *50% well you see where this is going and the DoT damage is reduced by BS and CP Thick skin/elemental.

How will Stam DKs get stronger? If they give us a attribute whip (so magicka DK can thrive too), if they make stone giant a stamina morph, if they make DoTs explode or give minor/major defile upon purge/heal/shield, and if they un-nerf a lot of abilities that we use to utilize one being "Flames of Oblivion"

I said what I had to say. If you still think Stamina Templars are performing better than Stamina DKs in PvP, or have better odds, then it is your own choise to live in delusíon.

Nifty2g wrote: »

Too many people playing 1 class and trying to get it buffed in this thread and not knowing how others work

Euqally many people in general on this forum claiming in-depth knowledge with all classes to further their agenda of buffing one class; "because I play all classes equally much so I know what I am talking about".

If a Stamina Templar was going against a Stamina Dragonknight, tell me who would win and why - make sure to keep it unbiased

To me it sounds like you have trouble playing Stamina Templar, and you're basing your whole argument based on your own capabilities rather than knowing what makes it good/bad

The Stamina DK would win because he would be able to lock down the Stamplar in talons. As we all know Jabs can't be redirected unless you move your character. The stamina DK would also have superior healing through use of Igneous Shield which would boost his self healing. He would have more constant pressure through the use of his Unstable Flame, and more burst through use of Dragon Leap and Wrecking Blow. Now the Stamplar could also use Wrecking Blow, but he would still be stood in talons and the DK could easily maneuver behind him. The DK would also have better rescource management through the Battle Roar and Helping Hand passives. Petrify would help the DK immensely with controlling the Templar and landing those lethal Wrecking Blow -> Dragon Leap combinations.

The only thing speaking in the Stamplar's favour in this battle is Purifying Light, but it would need to be spammed to cleanse every DoT effect and talons, and opposed to Talons and DoT effects it does not do damage but some minor healing. In theory it would just be the two classes standing there spamming those abilities but in pracsis it looks totally different and the Templar would most likely run out of magicka before the DK, both because the Templar has higher cost on his abilities, but also because Stam DKs in general tend invest a bit more in magicka regen because they have magicka abilities that needs to be used frequently because they are very good. Oh and ofcourse, DK will have Minor Brutality and some extra ultimate regen up all the time from the Mountain's Blessing passive when using Igneous Shield where the Stamplar has a constant 6% increased weapon damage. So 1% more weapon damage versus the use of your ultimate more often, I will let you decide which is best.

Now it is your turn to tell me who would win - make sure to keep it unbiased.

To me it sounds like you're having trouble differentiating between me as a player and my concerns with Stamplar's performance, and instead you're trying to insinuate that I have trouble playing my class. Keep in mind, nowehere during our discussion did I hint at your capabilities as a player, only your understanding of Stamplars, which you yourself admitted you don't want to comment on. Yet you insist on demanding these in-depth arguments from me, but have provided none yourself other that criticism towards what I am saying.

So please, tell me, how are Stamplars just fine facing off for example a Stamina DK, and remember to keep it unbiased and give concrete examples.

Are you confused with a magic DK? What stamina DK uses talons to consume magic vs igneous / reflect...

Nifty2g · January 2016

Tomato wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Zinaroth
You seem to have lost me here I was certain you referred to all abilities "Stamina" related not magicka damage. Fossilize may be a good CC ability but how many times can you use this in a fight which immediately drains your magicka thus not allowing you to use your reflective ability which can be sent back at you if you have bolster defence.

Lol you actually said our standard is good for PvE (which it is) but we're discussing PvP not PvE stay on topic here mate stop trying to make this benefit your case soley.

Take flight is a decent ultimate too bad if you're move slightly back it doesn't affect you and completely misses on top of it being glitched out 90% of the time (welcome to check clips about this on Youtube too). Take flight's tooltip seems great but it's completely dodge-able at medium distances/long distances and at short range well you can dodge it too move slightly to the left or right or back up a bit.

Corrosive Armor lasts for 10 seconds so what's stopping you from CCing me, it's not like the ultimate gives me CC immunity. All you do is knock me down then I break free that right there is already 4 seconds give or take and by the time I move myself to you to do 1 hit it's over so don't even consider that ability. In duels only those who rock 1H/board use this ability for mitigation.

Hardened armor is a decent ability in PvE but in PvP it's pretty useless against those with crit builds as they slice through said hardened armor like cheese. People who do 1v1 do use that ability to mitigate a certain portion of damage but nontheless it's typically a waste of a slot unless you're rocking 3 inf 4 impen.

Cinder storm I'm guessing you're referring to that it use to be a good ability but is utter trash given the diameter of said ability is much smaller than Caltrops

Molt arm is risky with stamina attacks as you can literally see it hitting you and if you block or dodge that 43% is no longer in affect oh and if you heal slightly over that 50% threshold (which is easy) it doesn't proc.

All those skills aside from the ultimate so far are Magicka abilities, again I thought you were talking about stamina abilities so let's keep it the way you said before "Stam DK" we're not talking about magicka Dk because no matter what I've got 3 hardened armors 2 molt arm/ cinder storms before I run out of magicka. In-case you didn't realize that's using them separately. Let's keep this stamina related shall we because we have no good decent stamina abilities but you claim other wise as if we do. In duels I have never seen a DK vs another class (unless another DK) using DoTs. Also don't bring a ability that every class can use because templars use Wrecking blow too

I've seen plenty of stamplars use breath of life to fill up their health maybe I'm missing something here. Jabs I do know sometimes they don't connect but like I said with movement impairment it's practically over unless you get out of the affecting area.

I'm not sure what sustain you're getting at as we only get spell resistance and health regen. Now the earthen heart passive line is pretty damn awesome compared to draconic and ardent flame which can be debateable but are fairly useless.
Looking through templar you've got some pretty nice passives from at-least two skill lines burning light as stated and one that reduces cost off magicka/stamina/ult cost, increase weapon damage and ulti regen.

When we talk about sustain please refer to what kind of regeneration we get via stamina/magicka becauase as far as I know unless they recently patched it in (yesterday) we have no stamina/magicka regen via passive. We do use earthen heart abilities to gain 5% stamina and that's it.

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Oh and Stam DK is only "Powerful" because people see the abilities like hardened armor and expect other DKs to run hardened armor + shuffle on top of the fact they think take flight is some GODLY powerful Ulti in PvP when it's utterly pathetic as you could slightly move out of it's range and it's a miss or you could dodge it and dodge roll it.

Wrecking blow isn't a DK move nor is steel tornado/focus aim.

Stam DKs have two Dot based skills that do nothing for damage as 3.3k *50% well you see where this is going and the DoT damage is reduced by BS and CP Thick skin/elemental.

How will Stam DKs get stronger? If they give us a attribute whip (so magicka DK can thrive too), if they make stone giant a stamina morph, if they make DoTs explode or give minor/major defile upon purge/heal/shield, and if they un-nerf a lot of abilities that we use to utilize one being "Flames of Oblivion"

I said what I had to say. If you still think Stamina Templars are performing better than Stamina DKs in PvP, or have better odds, then it is your own choise to live in delusíon.

Nifty2g wrote: »

Too many people playing 1 class and trying to get it buffed in this thread and not knowing how others work

Euqally many people in general on this forum claiming in-depth knowledge with all classes to further their agenda of buffing one class; "because I play all classes equally much so I know what I am talking about".

If a Stamina Templar was going against a Stamina Dragonknight, tell me who would win and why - make sure to keep it unbiased

To me it sounds like you have trouble playing Stamina Templar, and you're basing your whole argument based on your own capabilities rather than knowing what makes it good/bad

The Stamina DK would win because he would be able to lock down the Stamplar in talons. As we all know Jabs can't be redirected unless you move your character. The stamina DK would also have superior healing through use of Igneous Shield which would boost his self healing. He would have more constant pressure through the use of his Unstable Flame, and more burst through use of Dragon Leap and Wrecking Blow. Now the Stamplar could also use Wrecking Blow, but he would still be stood in talons and the DK could easily maneuver behind him. The DK would also have better rescource management through the Battle Roar and Helping Hand passives. Petrify would help the DK immensely with controlling the Templar and landing those lethal Wrecking Blow -> Dragon Leap combinations.

The only thing speaking in the Stamplar's favour in this battle is Purifying Light, but it would need to be spammed to cleanse every DoT effect and talons, and opposed to Talons and DoT effects it does not do damage but some minor healing. In theory it would just be the two classes standing there spamming those abilities but in pracsis it looks totally different and the Templar would most likely run out of magicka before the DK, both because the Templar has higher cost on his abilities, but also because Stam DKs in general tend invest a bit more in magicka regen because they have magicka abilities that needs to be used frequently because they are very good. Oh and ofcourse, DK will have Minor Brutality and some extra ultimate regen up all the time from the Mountain's Blessing passive when using Igneous Shield where the Stamplar has a constant 6% increased weapon damage. So 1% more weapon damage versus the use of your ultimate more often, I will let you decide which is best.

Now it is your turn to tell me who would win - make sure to keep it unbiased.

To me it sounds like you're having trouble differentiating between me as a player and my concerns with Stamplar's performance, and instead you're trying to insinuate that I have trouble playing my class. Keep in mind, nowehere during our discussion did I hint at your capabilities as a player, only your understanding of Stamplars, which you yourself admitted you don't want to comment on. Yet you insist on demanding these in-depth arguments from me, but have provided none yourself other that criticism towards what I am saying.

So please, tell me, how are Stamplars just fine facing off for example a Stamina DK, and remember to keep it unbiased and give concrete examples.

Are you confused with a magic DK? What stamina DK uses talons to consume magic vs igneous / reflect...

Because he's trying to pull every example he can to make it seem like Templars are weak when in fact Purify makes them incredibly OP. This guy doesn't even know his own class and acts as if the Dragonknight shield is Stamina costing and spammable same with talons. I think his post just proved how little he knows about his own class and Dragonknights

Nifty2g · January 2016

Not to mention in your post the amount of Magicka Pool you think a Dragonknight has, how is a Stamina player meant to be spamming Shields, Talons, Petrify... do you know how much those 3 skills cost?

But you go and say

Templar would most likely run out of magicka before the DK,

How? Templar has Channeled Focus and only needs to use Purify and Power of The Light, both are cheap compared to what a Dragonknight has to use.

Also, Restoring Focus gives bonus to healing, if you really want to have strong heals just use that and Vigor (to receive the bonus magicka restoration and/or the bonus healing you do not have to be inside to rune, and this lasts for 18 seconds)

Come on man

Zinaroth · January 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

My evaluation - Templar would win
The reason a Templar should win this would be because of Purify and Balanced Warrior Passive, if we put both classes in the same gear, Templars are going to come out stronger each time because of passives giving them stronger weapon damage. Dragonknight has access to Petrify, Leap and Wings, 2 DoTs but in this scenario the Wings and DoTs are useless.

So if Templar can counter a lot of skills and have access to high regen and weapon damage. What makes it weak?

You must know that you should have Biting Jabs and Wrecking Blow on your bar because of Piercing Spear (Increases the damage bonus for your Critical Strikes by (10)% and your damage against blocking targets by (10)%.) mix that with an Empowered Wrecking Blow and Balanced Warrior (Increases Weapon Damage by 6% and Spell Resistance by (2000)

Do you not read Templar Passives? Hit someone with Wrecking Blow then Biting Jabs as they are stunned with no shield for Burning Light procs as well would probably do the most damage theoretically

l2p dude and learn your class passives and how to utilize them, yes this is me saying Stamina Templars are in a fine spot the only issue would be Puncturing Sweeps / Biting Jabs being weak against shields, Toppling Charge needs a Stamina Morph and Burning Light needs to proc on shields.

So you didn't even bother waiting for my response, you just jumped at me throat.

The Empower from abilities only work on the first hit on a channeled ability, do you now know how your class abilities work?

Nice, so now you're telling me to L2P. I guess that is why I am in a top raiding guild, because I don't know how to play the game. Just stop yourself now. You're being arrogant and condescending.

Tomato wrote: »

Are you confused with a magic DK? What stamina DK uses talons to consume magic vs igneous / reflect...

No I am not. Well build Stamina DKs can easily invest into some magicka regen through drinks allowing them to use these abilities when needed, especially because they get a huge chunk of magicka back from using ultimates. But no, I am not saying they would be spamming them.

Nifty2g wrote: »

Tomato wrote: »

Are you confused with a magic DK? What stamina DK uses talons to consume magic vs igneous / reflect...

Because he's trying to pull every example he can to make it seem like Templars are weak when in fact Purify makes them incredibly OP. This guy doesn't even know his own class and acts as if the Dragonknight shield is Stamina costing and spammable same with talons. I think his post just proved how little he knows about his own class and Dragonknights

This discussion is over, if you think Stamplars are fine in PvP then you're out of the loop. You certainly cannot keep a discussion on the subject when you have to result to personal attacks. Well played Nifty, you're such a knowledgeable player and asset to the community.

This will be the last response you get from me on this matter.

MaxwellC · January 2016

@Nifty2g @Tomato
That's exactly what I'm saying here this guy believes that we would use magicka as if we're some magicka dk. Talons is like what 3.5k with no reduction, cinder storm is 3.5-3.8k and dragons blood is definitely 3.8k. I'm sorry @Zinaroth but stop trying to make everything sound in your favor as it comes to resources and ulti regen QQers stripped that from DKs a long time ago (1.6). You need to study up about DKs, that now I sound like a hypocrite because I don't study up against templars but I'm far less biased in-comparison.

Let me add a bit more here, Rally and vigor would completely out heal a DoT. Your passives according to what I read yesterday increases ulti regen over time while we have to spam a earthen heart skill to receive ulti regen so what are you talking about? As a Stam DK I have 10k magicka (no food) that's because I had to enchant two small armor pieces with magicka for better sustaining using utility abilities as I have NO CLASS DAMAGING abilities that do SIGNIFICANT damage in PvP. Also not all Stam DKs invest in magicka regen please refrain from making accusations that span across every person who plays Stam DK. I for one don't put anything in magicka regen, I put everything into stam reduction/stam regen.

When it comes to "Understanding" a class you surely do not understand DKs, I'm sorry but I'd advise you to stop right here mate.

Nifty2g · January 2016

Zinaroth wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

My evaluation - Templar would win
The reason a Templar should win this would be because of Purify and Balanced Warrior Passive, if we put both classes in the same gear, Templars are going to come out stronger each time because of passives giving them stronger weapon damage. Dragonknight has access to Petrify, Leap and Wings, 2 DoTs but in this scenario the Wings and DoTs are useless.

So if Templar can counter a lot of skills and have access to high regen and weapon damage. What makes it weak?

You must know that you should have Biting Jabs and Wrecking Blow on your bar because of Piercing Spear (Increases the damage bonus for your Critical Strikes by (10)% and your damage against blocking targets by (10)%.) mix that with an Empowered Wrecking Blow and Balanced Warrior (Increases Weapon Damage by 6% and Spell Resistance by (2000)

Do you not read Templar Passives? Hit someone with Wrecking Blow then Biting Jabs as they are stunned with no shield for Burning Light procs as well would probably do the most damage theoretically

l2p dude and learn your class passives and how to utilize them, yes this is me saying Stamina Templars are in a fine spot the only issue would be Puncturing Sweeps / Biting Jabs being weak against shields, Toppling Charge needs a Stamina Morph and Burning Light needs to proc on shields.

So you didn't even bother waiting for my response, you just jumped at me throat.

The Empower from abilities only work on the first hit on a channeled ability, do you now know how your class abilities work?

Nice, so now you're telling me to L2P. I guess that is why I am in a top raiding guild, because I don't know how to play the game. Just stop yourself now. You're being arrogant and condescending.

Tomato wrote: »

Are you confused with a magic DK? What stamina DK uses talons to consume magic vs igneous / reflect...

No I am not. Well build Stamina DKs can easily invest into some magicka regen through drinks allowing them to use these abilities when needed, especially because they get a huge chunk of magicka back from using ultimates. But no, I am not saying they would be spamming them.

Nifty2g wrote: »

Tomato wrote: »

Are you confused with a magic DK? What stamina DK uses talons to consume magic vs igneous / reflect...

Because he's trying to pull every example he can to make it seem like Templars are weak when in fact Purify makes them incredibly OP. This guy doesn't even know his own class and acts as if the Dragonknight shield is Stamina costing and spammable same with talons. I think his post just proved how little he knows about his own class and Dragonknights

This discussion is over, if you think Stamplars are fine in PvP then you're out of the loop. You certainly cannot keep a discussion on the subject when you have to result to personal attacks. Well played Nifty, you're such a knowledgeable player and asset to the community.

This will be the last response you get from me on this matter.

I know how empower works but theoretically you'd get more damage switching to jabs with burning light procs, don't forget when a target is stunned you activate Exploiter in CP and you'd do a lot more damage with jabs, but this is only on paper and playing like a robot isn't a thing, if you really wanted you empower just do wrecking blow, dawnbreaker, jabs. easy?

You're just basing this whole argument that Dragonknights are the best thing right now, sure they are strong but Templars have a lot of counters to them...

You can say the argument is over if you want to but it's pretty clear, I just don't believe we should be throwing nerfs around and buffs around for pointless reasons. I also assume you forgot about Power of The Light didn't you?

Anyway, in my opinion the strongest Stamina classes based on skills / passives would be
Nightblade
Templar
Dragonknight
Sorcerer

Nightblade should be able to beat every Stamina class

MaxwellC · January 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

Anyway, in my opinion the strongest Stamina classes based on skills / passives would be
Nightblade
Templar
Dragonknight
Sorcerer

Nightblade should be able to beat every Stamina class

This ^ Exactly what it is in this current meta.

lucky_Sage · January 2016

Templars dark flare should be changed to instant or a channel because if you try to be a range magicka Templar youll die very quick when you try to pvp

MaxwellC · January 2016

@lucky_Sage
Yeah I agree as a stam DK I can say dark flare is way too long for a cast time and it rarely hits me because I either hear it or see it which results in my dodge rolling it.

Alcast · January 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

My evaluation - Templar would win
The reason a Templar should win this would be because of Purify and Balanced Warrior Passive, if we put both classes in the same gear, Templars are going to come out stronger each time because of passives giving them stronger weapon damage. Dragonknight has access to Petrify, Leap and Wings, 2 DoTs but in this scenario the Wings and DoTs are useless.

So if Templar can counter a lot of skills and have access to high regen and weapon damage. What makes it weak?

You must know that you should have Biting Jabs and Wrecking Blow on your bar because of Piercing Spear (Increases the damage bonus for your Critical Strikes by (10)% and your damage against blocking targets by (10)%.) mix that with an Empowered Wrecking Blow and Balanced Warrior (Increases Weapon Damage by 6% and Spell Resistance by (2000)

Do you not read Templar Passives? Hit someone with Wrecking Blow then Biting Jabs as they are stunned with no shield for Burning Light procs as well would probably do the most damage theoretically

l2p dude and learn your class passives and how to utilize them, yes this is me saying Stamina Templars are in a fine spot the only issue would be Puncturing Sweeps / Biting Jabs being weak against shields, Toppling Charge needs a Stamina Morph and Burning Light needs to proc on shields.

Stamplar would win? Good joke. Again, stamplars are literally NONEXISTANT in pvp and poeple still claim the setup does fine? I am laughing my ass of everytime I hear that from someone.
Seriously what the ***.

It is so easy to rip a stamplar with a dk for example...Wblow>takeflight>Executioner>RIP

And if we want to play that game of sustain, no *** way a templar is going t win. Templar simply misses "Fossilize" compared to DK. Templar has simply no good ultimate for 1v1s. A dk got burst with leap....OP godmode with corro armor.....

Templar Nova? Sweep? ye good joke

@MaxwellCrystal
Not enough Magicka? Well ye if you have a noob no brainsetup yes. That is why good Dks have around 1,2k magicka recovery to deal with "magicka sustain"

Nifty2g · January 2016

Alcast wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

My evaluation - Templar would win
The reason a Templar should win this would be because of Purify and Balanced Warrior Passive, if we put both classes in the same gear, Templars are going to come out stronger each time because of passives giving them stronger weapon damage. Dragonknight has access to Petrify, Leap and Wings, 2 DoTs but in this scenario the Wings and DoTs are useless.

So if Templar can counter a lot of skills and have access to high regen and weapon damage. What makes it weak?

You must know that you should have Biting Jabs and Wrecking Blow on your bar because of Piercing Spear (Increases the damage bonus for your Critical Strikes by (10)% and your damage against blocking targets by (10)%.) mix that with an Empowered Wrecking Blow and Balanced Warrior (Increases Weapon Damage by 6% and Spell Resistance by (2000)

Do you not read Templar Passives? Hit someone with Wrecking Blow then Biting Jabs as they are stunned with no shield for Burning Light procs as well would probably do the most damage theoretically

l2p dude and learn your class passives and how to utilize them, yes this is me saying Stamina Templars are in a fine spot the only issue would be Puncturing Sweeps / Biting Jabs being weak against shields, Toppling Charge needs a Stamina Morph and Burning Light needs to proc on shields.

Stamplar would win? Good joke. Again, stamplars are literally NONEXISTANT in pvp and poeple still claim the setup does fine? I am laughing my ass of everytime I hear that from someone.

It is so easy to rip a stamplar with a dk for example...Wblow>takeflight>Executioner>RIP

And if we want to play that game of sustain, no *** way a templar is going t win. Templar simply misses "Fossilize" compared to DK. Templar has simply no good ultimate for 1v1s. A dk got burst with leap....OP godmode with corro armor.....

Templar Nova? Sweep? ye good joke

@MaxwellCrystal
Not enough Magicka? Well ye if you have a noob no brainsetup yes. That is why good Dks have around 1,2k magicka recovery to deal with "magicka sustain"

You know I'm judging skills and passives vs each other right?
You can't just base your opinion and arguments on the top player base, but honestly in general comparing the two templar comes better just with all the counters but throw a good player in there who isn't an idiot then Dk would win same goes for Sorc, I bet FENGRUSH would rip us all and he's a stam Sorc.

zos lol I just noticed you can see swears when you're quoting someone to reply

Alcast · January 2016

Nifty2g wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

My evaluation - Templar would win
The reason a Templar should win this would be because of Purify and Balanced Warrior Passive, if we put both classes in the same gear, Templars are going to come out stronger each time because of passives giving them stronger weapon damage. Dragonknight has access to Petrify, Leap and Wings, 2 DoTs but in this scenario the Wings and DoTs are useless.

So if Templar can counter a lot of skills and have access to high regen and weapon damage. What makes it weak?

You must know that you should have Biting Jabs and Wrecking Blow on your bar because of Piercing Spear (Increases the damage bonus for your Critical Strikes by (10)% and your damage against blocking targets by (10)%.) mix that with an Empowered Wrecking Blow and Balanced Warrior (Increases Weapon Damage by 6% and Spell Resistance by (2000)

Do you not read Templar Passives? Hit someone with Wrecking Blow then Biting Jabs as they are stunned with no shield for Burning Light procs as well would probably do the most damage theoretically

l2p dude and learn your class passives and how to utilize them, yes this is me saying Stamina Templars are in a fine spot the only issue would be Puncturing Sweeps / Biting Jabs being weak against shields, Toppling Charge needs a Stamina Morph and Burning Light needs to proc on shields.

Stamplar would win? Good joke. Again, stamplars are literally NONEXISTANT in pvp and poeple still claim the setup does fine? I am laughing my ass of everytime I hear that from someone.

It is so easy to rip a stamplar with a dk for example...Wblow>takeflight>Executioner>RIP

And if we want to play that game of sustain, no *** way a templar is going t win. Templar simply misses "Fossilize" compared to DK. Templar has simply no good ultimate for 1v1s. A dk got burst with leap....OP godmode with corro armor.....

Templar Nova? Sweep? ye good joke

@MaxwellCrystal
Not enough Magicka? Well ye if you have a noob no brainsetup yes. That is why good Dks have around 1,2k magicka recovery to deal with "magicka sustain"

You know I'm judging skills and passives vs each other right?
You can't just base your opinion and arguments on the top player base, but honestly in general comparing the two templar comes better just with all the counters but throw a good player in there who isn't an idiot then Dk would win same goes for Sorc, I bet FENGRUSH would rip us all and he's a stam Sorc.

zos lol I just noticed you can see swears when you're quoting someone to reply

Ye well good that you see the passives, but DK got so much more dmg output with Leap/Corro Armor and can time it to get rresources back. Stamplar simply has no burst damage as he misses a good ulti.
Yes sure, 6% weap dmg and 10% inc crit dmg(which is actually 5%) is fancy pancy ....

But Battle Roar and Helping hands are even more OP.
And Fossilize is crazy OP too...

But I guess its fine to judge classes just by looking at their passives.
so w/e

Again, I havent seen a Stamplar since IC release in Cyrodiil, but sure, they are better off...makes totally sense.