ATTN: ZOS ~~Mega Post of Issues with the Game and its Current Problems with Balance!!!

Nifty2g

Alcast wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

My evaluation - Templar would win
The reason a Templar should win this would be because of Purify and Balanced Warrior Passive, if we put both classes in the same gear, Templars are going to come out stronger each time because of passives giving them stronger weapon damage. Dragonknight has access to Petrify, Leap and Wings, 2 DoTs but in this scenario the Wings and DoTs are useless.

So if Templar can counter a lot of skills and have access to high regen and weapon damage. What makes it weak?

You must know that you should have Biting Jabs and Wrecking Blow on your bar because of Piercing Spear (Increases the damage bonus for your Critical Strikes by (10)% and your damage against blocking targets by (10)%.) mix that with an Empowered Wrecking Blow and Balanced Warrior (Increases Weapon Damage by 6% and Spell Resistance by (2000)

Do you not read Templar Passives? Hit someone with Wrecking Blow then Biting Jabs as they are stunned with no shield for Burning Light procs as well would probably do the most damage theoretically

l2p dude and learn your class passives and how to utilize them, yes this is me saying Stamina Templars are in a fine spot the only issue would be Puncturing Sweeps / Biting Jabs being weak against shields, Toppling Charge needs a Stamina Morph and Burning Light needs to proc on shields.

Stamplar would win? Good joke. Again, stamplars are literally NONEXISTANT in pvp and poeple still claim the setup does fine? I am laughing my ass of everytime I hear that from someone.

It is so easy to rip a stamplar with a dk for example...Wblow>takeflight>Executioner>RIP

And if we want to play that game of sustain, no *** way a templar is going t win. Templar simply misses "Fossilize" compared to DK. Templar has simply no good ultimate for 1v1s. A dk got burst with leap....OP godmode with corro armor.....

Templar Nova? Sweep? ye good joke

@MaxwellCrystal
Not enough Magicka? Well ye if you have a noob no brainsetup yes. That is why good Dks have around 1,2k magicka recovery to deal with "magicka sustain"

You know I'm judging skills and passives vs each other right?
You can't just base your opinion and arguments on the top player base, but honestly in general comparing the two templar comes better just with all the counters but throw a good player in there who isn't an idiot then Dk would win same goes for Sorc, I bet FENGRUSH would rip us all and he's a stam Sorc.

zos lol I just noticed you can see swears when you're quoting someone to reply

Ye well good that you see the passives, but DK got so much more dmg output with Leap/Corro Armor and can time it to get rresources back. Stamplar simply has no burst damage as he misses a good ulti.
Yes sure, 6% weap dmg and 10% inc crit dmg(which is actually 5%) is fancy pancy ....

But Battle Roar and Helping hands are even more OP.
And Fossilize is crazy OP too...

But I guess its fine to judge classes just by looking at their passives.
so w/e

Again, I havent seen a Stamplar since IC release in Cyrodiil, but sure, they are better off...makes totally sense.

I also want to point out to you, eclipse reflects Petrify
Again it comes down to who is a better player but templar has insane counters to dks

Alcast

Nifty2g wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

My evaluation - Templar would win
The reason a Templar should win this would be because of Purify and Balanced Warrior Passive, if we put both classes in the same gear, Templars are going to come out stronger each time because of passives giving them stronger weapon damage. Dragonknight has access to Petrify, Leap and Wings, 2 DoTs but in this scenario the Wings and DoTs are useless.

So if Templar can counter a lot of skills and have access to high regen and weapon damage. What makes it weak?

You must know that you should have Biting Jabs and Wrecking Blow on your bar because of Piercing Spear (Increases the damage bonus for your Critical Strikes by (10)% and your damage against blocking targets by (10)%.) mix that with an Empowered Wrecking Blow and Balanced Warrior (Increases Weapon Damage by 6% and Spell Resistance by (2000)

Do you not read Templar Passives? Hit someone with Wrecking Blow then Biting Jabs as they are stunned with no shield for Burning Light procs as well would probably do the most damage theoretically

l2p dude and learn your class passives and how to utilize them, yes this is me saying Stamina Templars are in a fine spot the only issue would be Puncturing Sweeps / Biting Jabs being weak against shields, Toppling Charge needs a Stamina Morph and Burning Light needs to proc on shields.

Stamplar would win? Good joke. Again, stamplars are literally NONEXISTANT in pvp and poeple still claim the setup does fine? I am laughing my ass of everytime I hear that from someone.

It is so easy to rip a stamplar with a dk for example...Wblow>takeflight>Executioner>RIP

And if we want to play that game of sustain, no *** way a templar is going t win. Templar simply misses "Fossilize" compared to DK. Templar has simply no good ultimate for 1v1s. A dk got burst with leap....OP godmode with corro armor.....

Templar Nova? Sweep? ye good joke

@MaxwellCrystal
Not enough Magicka? Well ye if you have a noob no brainsetup yes. That is why good Dks have around 1,2k magicka recovery to deal with "magicka sustain"

You know I'm judging skills and passives vs each other right?
You can't just base your opinion and arguments on the top player base, but honestly in general comparing the two templar comes better just with all the counters but throw a good player in there who isn't an idiot then Dk would win same goes for Sorc, I bet FENGRUSH would rip us all and he's a stam Sorc.

zos lol I just noticed you can see swears when you're quoting someone to reply

Ye well good that you see the passives, but DK got so much more dmg output with Leap/Corro Armor and can time it to get rresources back. Stamplar simply has no burst damage as he misses a good ulti.
Yes sure, 6% weap dmg and 10% inc crit dmg(which is actually 5%) is fancy pancy ....

But Battle Roar and Helping hands are even more OP.
And Fossilize is crazy OP too...

But I guess its fine to judge classes just by looking at their passives.
so w/e

Again, I havent seen a Stamplar since IC release in Cyrodiil, but sure, they are better off...makes totally sense.

I also want to point out to you, eclipse reflects Petrify
Again it comes down to who is a better player but templar has insane counters to dks

Go play stamplar in cyrodiil for 1-2 weeks. Then play Stam DK for 1-2 Weeks in cyrodiil. Then we can talk again about OP stamplars.

Mumyo

Nifty2g wrote: »

My evaluation - Templar would win
The reason a Templar should win this would be because of Purify and Balanced Warrior Passive, if we put both classes in the same gear, Templars are going to come out stronger each time because of passives giving them stronger weapon damage. Dragonknight has access to Petrify, Leap and Wings, 2 DoTs but in this scenario the Wings and DoTs are useless.

So if Templar can counter a lot of skills and have access to high regen and weapon damage. What makes it weak?

You must know that you should have Biting Jabs and Wrecking Blow on your bar because of Piercing Spear (Increases the damage bonus for your Critical Strikes by (10)% and your damage against blocking targets by (10)%.) mix that with an Empowered Wrecking Blow and Balanced Warrior (Increases Weapon Damage by 6% and Spell Resistance by (2000)

Do you not read Templar Passives? Hit someone with Wrecking Blow then Biting Jabs as they are stunned with no shield for Burning Light procs as well would probably do the most damage theoretically

l2p dude and learn your class passives and how to utilize them, yes this is me saying Stamina Templars are in a fine spot the only issue would be Puncturing Sweeps / Biting Jabs being weak against shields, Toppling Charge needs a Stamina Morph and Burning Light needs to proc on shields.

Thats pretty much not it. Dks win because they have the way better sustain and when u talk about the balanced warrior, u completely miss the fact that dk also gets the weapon dmg... they just have to push one earthern heart ability(the selfbuff works infight so dont say its bugged) and get the buff long enough.The way u describe the dk u pretty much seem to have no idea.(Actually the dks version of the buff is the better one)
Also... the burst a dk can throw into ur face is way higher, the good shieldbash cancellnig combo followed by leap and that again followed by an exeuctioner off the 2hand bar is definately killing it.

So the dk has more sustain, more burst and the better cc. Nice that temp has that purge but even if a dk plays entirely without dots, he still is superior. Ont the other hand, a dot costs nothing and is recasted in half a second... temp obviously has to weapon swap, purge and swap back while a dk just puts it on again during his pressure time.

Restoring focus gives very low healing increased!
Power of the light doesnt work in pvp at all, to get good damage off it, ud have cast FULL unblocked or influenced dmg into the enemies face and during all that, he is not allowed to block or shield since it doesnt work on that... U ever fought an enemy who stood still for 6 seconds letting u spam stuff in his face?
NO! u didnt!
Even in pve rotation that skill is a dps loss. Next time u get some info about stuff first, they just sound good in theory, power of the light is a 100% useless skill for pvp and even for pve.

eserras7b16_ESO

Can't care less if you're 500 or 10 players in the guild. Thing is, not every single member of your guild would vote up for this and i'm sure of that.

This said, some things said are really nice, some are not, and some are an opinion. BUT there's one thing here: You expect all classes to have the same spells? You think this would bring balance? Huh...

Mumyo

Way too much information missing on the abilities and their circumstances.
Following this would also make every class being a copy of another one somehow... i prefer imbalance over this.

Nifty2g

Alcast wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

My evaluation - Templar would win
The reason a Templar should win this would be because of Purify and Balanced Warrior Passive, if we put both classes in the same gear, Templars are going to come out stronger each time because of passives giving them stronger weapon damage. Dragonknight has access to Petrify, Leap and Wings, 2 DoTs but in this scenario the Wings and DoTs are useless.

So if Templar can counter a lot of skills and have access to high regen and weapon damage. What makes it weak?

You must know that you should have Biting Jabs and Wrecking Blow on your bar because of Piercing Spear (Increases the damage bonus for your Critical Strikes by (10)% and your damage against blocking targets by (10)%.) mix that with an Empowered Wrecking Blow and Balanced Warrior (Increases Weapon Damage by 6% and Spell Resistance by (2000)

Do you not read Templar Passives? Hit someone with Wrecking Blow then Biting Jabs as they are stunned with no shield for Burning Light procs as well would probably do the most damage theoretically

l2p dude and learn your class passives and how to utilize them, yes this is me saying Stamina Templars are in a fine spot the only issue would be Puncturing Sweeps / Biting Jabs being weak against shields, Toppling Charge needs a Stamina Morph and Burning Light needs to proc on shields.

Stamplar would win? Good joke. Again, stamplars are literally NONEXISTANT in pvp and poeple still claim the setup does fine? I am laughing my ass of everytime I hear that from someone.

It is so easy to rip a stamplar with a dk for example...Wblow>takeflight>Executioner>RIP

And if we want to play that game of sustain, no *** way a templar is going t win. Templar simply misses "Fossilize" compared to DK. Templar has simply no good ultimate for 1v1s. A dk got burst with leap....OP godmode with corro armor.....

Templar Nova? Sweep? ye good joke

@MaxwellCrystal
Not enough Magicka? Well ye if you have a noob no brainsetup yes. That is why good Dks have around 1,2k magicka recovery to deal with "magicka sustain"

You know I'm judging skills and passives vs each other right?
You can't just base your opinion and arguments on the top player base, but honestly in general comparing the two templar comes better just with all the counters but throw a good player in there who isn't an idiot then Dk would win same goes for Sorc, I bet FENGRUSH would rip us all and he's a stam Sorc.

zos lol I just noticed you can see swears when you're quoting someone to reply

Ye well good that you see the passives, but DK got so much more dmg output with Leap/Corro Armor and can time it to get rresources back. Stamplar simply has no burst damage as he misses a good ulti.
Yes sure, 6% weap dmg and 10% inc crit dmg(which is actually 5%) is fancy pancy ....

But Battle Roar and Helping hands are even more OP.
And Fossilize is crazy OP too...

But I guess its fine to judge classes just by looking at their passives.
so w/e

Again, I havent seen a Stamplar since IC release in Cyrodiil, but sure, they are better off...makes totally sense.

I also want to point out to you, eclipse reflects Petrify
Again it comes down to who is a better player but templar has insane counters to dks

Go play stamplar in cyrodiil for 1-2 weeks. Then play Stam DK for 1-2 Weeks in cyrodiil. Then we can talk again about OP stamplars.

There was barely any context to any of what you said
Im simply comparing the passives and skills, your friend wants a buff to stamplars I can't exactly see what buff to give them apart from what I already said and wants an indirect nerf to DK which again I can't see what should be nerfed

Like I said it comes down to players there might not be many in eu but there's a few great stamplars in NA and there's great stam dks in NA too.

Going open world killing bads will always be easy anyone would agree but id like to see 2 great players a stam Dk and stamplar fight each other, shame mojican and lowpolicy are both ad

Nifty2g

Mumyo wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

My evaluation - Templar would win
The reason a Templar should win this would be because of Purify and Balanced Warrior Passive, if we put both classes in the same gear, Templars are going to come out stronger each time because of passives giving them stronger weapon damage. Dragonknight has access to Petrify, Leap and Wings, 2 DoTs but in this scenario the Wings and DoTs are useless.

So if Templar can counter a lot of skills and have access to high regen and weapon damage. What makes it weak?

You must know that you should have Biting Jabs and Wrecking Blow on your bar because of Piercing Spear (Increases the damage bonus for your Critical Strikes by (10)% and your damage against blocking targets by (10)%.) mix that with an Empowered Wrecking Blow and Balanced Warrior (Increases Weapon Damage by 6% and Spell Resistance by (2000)

Do you not read Templar Passives? Hit someone with Wrecking Blow then Biting Jabs as they are stunned with no shield for Burning Light procs as well would probably do the most damage theoretically

l2p dude and learn your class passives and how to utilize them, yes this is me saying Stamina Templars are in a fine spot the only issue would be Puncturing Sweeps / Biting Jabs being weak against shields, Toppling Charge needs a Stamina Morph and Burning Light needs to proc on shields.

Thats pretty much not it. Dks win because they have the way better sustain and when u talk about the balanced warrior, u completely miss the fact that dk also gets the weapon dmg... they just have to push one earthern heart ability(the selfbuff works infight so dont say its bugged) and get the buff long enough.The way u describe the dk u pretty much seem to have no idea.(Actually the dks version of the buff is the better one)
Also... the burst a dk can throw into ur face is way higher, the good shieldbash cancellnig combo followed by leap and that again followed by an exeuctioner off the 2hand bar is definately killing it.

So the dk has more sustain, more burst and the better cc. Nice that temp has that purge but even if a dk plays entirely without dots, he still is superior. Ont the other hand, a dot costs nothing and is recasted in half a second... temp obviously has to weapon swap, purge and swap back while a dk just puts it on again during his pressure time.

Restoring focus gives very low healing increased!
Power of the light doesnt work in pvp at all, to get good damage off it, ud have cast FULL unblocked or influenced dmg into the enemies face and during all that, he is not allowed to block or shield since it doesnt work on that... U ever fought an enemy who stood still for 6 seconds letting u spam stuff in his face?
NO! u didnt!
Even in pve rotation that skill is a dps loss. Next time u get some info about stuff first, they just sound good in theory, power of the light is a 100% useless skill for pvp and even for pve.

Restoring focus gives 15% healing increase I believe
And power of the light is for the debuff lol

I agree dks have more burst obviously with the leap

Mumyo

Nifty2g wrote: »

Mumyo wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

My evaluation - Templar would win
The reason a Templar should win this would be because of Purify and Balanced Warrior Passive, if we put both classes in the same gear, Templars are going to come out stronger each time because of passives giving them stronger weapon damage. Dragonknight has access to Petrify, Leap and Wings, 2 DoTs but in this scenario the Wings and DoTs are useless.

So if Templar can counter a lot of skills and have access to high regen and weapon damage. What makes it weak?

You must know that you should have Biting Jabs and Wrecking Blow on your bar because of Piercing Spear (Increases the damage bonus for your Critical Strikes by (10)% and your damage against blocking targets by (10)%.) mix that with an Empowered Wrecking Blow and Balanced Warrior (Increases Weapon Damage by 6% and Spell Resistance by (2000)

Do you not read Templar Passives? Hit someone with Wrecking Blow then Biting Jabs as they are stunned with no shield for Burning Light procs as well would probably do the most damage theoretically

l2p dude and learn your class passives and how to utilize them, yes this is me saying Stamina Templars are in a fine spot the only issue would be Puncturing Sweeps / Biting Jabs being weak against shields, Toppling Charge needs a Stamina Morph and Burning Light needs to proc on shields.

Thats pretty much not it. Dks win because they have the way better sustain and when u talk about the balanced warrior, u completely miss the fact that dk also gets the weapon dmg... they just have to push one earthern heart ability(the selfbuff works infight so dont say its bugged) and get the buff long enough.The way u describe the dk u pretty much seem to have no idea.(Actually the dks version of the buff is the better one)
Also... the burst a dk can throw into ur face is way higher, the good shieldbash cancellnig combo followed by leap and that again followed by an exeuctioner off the 2hand bar is definately killing it.

So the dk has more sustain, more burst and the better cc. Nice that temp has that purge but even if a dk plays entirely without dots, he still is superior. Ont the other hand, a dot costs nothing and is recasted in half a second... temp obviously has to weapon swap, purge and swap back while a dk just puts it on again during his pressure time.

Restoring focus gives very low healing increased!
Power of the light doesnt work in pvp at all, to get good damage off it, ud have cast FULL unblocked or influenced dmg into the enemies face and during all that, he is not allowed to block or shield since it doesnt work on that... U ever fought an enemy who stood still for 6 seconds letting u spam stuff in his face?
NO! u didnt!
Even in pve rotation that skill is a dps loss. Next time u get some info about stuff first, they just sound good in theory, power of the light is a 100% useless skill for pvp and even for pve.

Restoring focus gives 15% healing increase I believe
And power of the light is for the debuff lol

I agree dks have more burst obviously with the leap

so what about ur dmg argument and the 15% increased healing is no match for the dks healing. What about the Ressource management where also the dk wins obviously. And power of the light vs fiery breath is a simply minor vs major comparison.
The use u get out of pol is 0. It is a slotwaste and nothing else.
So dmg = equal
Burst = DK
CC = DK
Ressources = DK
Debuffs = DK //countered by templar, agreed!

Alcast

Nifty2g wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

My evaluation - Templar would win
The reason a Templar should win this would be because of Purify and Balanced Warrior Passive, if we put both classes in the same gear, Templars are going to come out stronger each time because of passives giving them stronger weapon damage. Dragonknight has access to Petrify, Leap and Wings, 2 DoTs but in this scenario the Wings and DoTs are useless.

So if Templar can counter a lot of skills and have access to high regen and weapon damage. What makes it weak?

You must know that you should have Biting Jabs and Wrecking Blow on your bar because of Piercing Spear (Increases the damage bonus for your Critical Strikes by (10)% and your damage against blocking targets by (10)%.) mix that with an Empowered Wrecking Blow and Balanced Warrior (Increases Weapon Damage by 6% and Spell Resistance by (2000)

Do you not read Templar Passives? Hit someone with Wrecking Blow then Biting Jabs as they are stunned with no shield for Burning Light procs as well would probably do the most damage theoretically

l2p dude and learn your class passives and how to utilize them, yes this is me saying Stamina Templars are in a fine spot the only issue would be Puncturing Sweeps / Biting Jabs being weak against shields, Toppling Charge needs a Stamina Morph and Burning Light needs to proc on shields.

Stamplar would win? Good joke. Again, stamplars are literally NONEXISTANT in pvp and poeple still claim the setup does fine? I am laughing my ass of everytime I hear that from someone.

It is so easy to rip a stamplar with a dk for example...Wblow>takeflight>Executioner>RIP

And if we want to play that game of sustain, no *** way a templar is going t win. Templar simply misses "Fossilize" compared to DK. Templar has simply no good ultimate for 1v1s. A dk got burst with leap....OP godmode with corro armor.....

Templar Nova? Sweep? ye good joke

@MaxwellCrystal
Not enough Magicka? Well ye if you have a noob no brainsetup yes. That is why good Dks have around 1,2k magicka recovery to deal with "magicka sustain"

You know I'm judging skills and passives vs each other right?
You can't just base your opinion and arguments on the top player base, but honestly in general comparing the two templar comes better just with all the counters but throw a good player in there who isn't an idiot then Dk would win same goes for Sorc, I bet FENGRUSH would rip us all and he's a stam Sorc.

zos lol I just noticed you can see swears when you're quoting someone to reply

Ye well good that you see the passives, but DK got so much more dmg output with Leap/Corro Armor and can time it to get rresources back. Stamplar simply has no burst damage as he misses a good ulti.
Yes sure, 6% weap dmg and 10% inc crit dmg(which is actually 5%) is fancy pancy ....

But Battle Roar and Helping hands are even more OP.
And Fossilize is crazy OP too...

But I guess its fine to judge classes just by looking at their passives.
so w/e

Again, I havent seen a Stamplar since IC release in Cyrodiil, but sure, they are better off...makes totally sense.

I also want to point out to you, eclipse reflects Petrify
Again it comes down to who is a better player but templar has insane counters to dks

Go play stamplar in cyrodiil for 1-2 weeks. Then play Stam DK for 1-2 Weeks in cyrodiil. Then we can talk again about OP stamplars.

There was barely any context to any of what you said
Im simply comparing the passives and skills, your friend wants a buff to stamplars I can't exactly see what buff to give them apart from what I already said and wants an indirect nerf to DK which again I can't see what should be nerfed

Like I said it comes down to players there might not be many in eu but there's a few great stamplars in NA and there's great stam dks in NA too.

Going open world killing bads will always be easy anyone would agree but id like to see 2 great players a stam Dk and stamplar fight each other, shame mojican and lowpolicy are both ad

You have not played any of those 2 Setups and you are still telling me that I am wrong? Although I played both Stamplar and Stam DK for quite a while? Come on man...w/e I am outta here

TotterTates

This thread was started as a mostly objective way to point out imbalances based on the available arsenals of each class and how they appear in bother pve and pvp. Somewhere down the line, it was channeled into a purely subjective pvp argument.

Let's just remember that the experiences and desires of pvp players are vastly different from pve players and what's best for the goose is not necessarily best for the gander. These are the arguments that eventually resulted in the castration of tanks in PvE and shields/healing in pvp.

I thoroughly enjoy the passionate arguments of informed players... but in the end, all arguments are circumstantial and based on subjective experience.

Ok, carry on.

Tankqull

Nifty2g wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

@Zinaroth
You seem to have lost me here I was certain you referred to all abilities "Stamina" related not magicka damage. Fossilize may be a good CC ability but how many times can you use this in a fight which immediately drains your magicka thus not allowing you to use your reflective ability which can be sent back at you if you have bolster defence.

Lol you actually said our standard is good for PvE (which it is) but we're discussing PvP not PvE stay on topic here mate stop trying to make this benefit your case soley.

Take flight is a decent ultimate too bad if you're move slightly back it doesn't affect you and completely misses on top of it being glitched out 90% of the time (welcome to check clips about this on Youtube too). Take flight's tooltip seems great but it's completely dodge-able at medium distances/long distances and at short range well you can dodge it too move slightly to the left or right or back up a bit.

Corrosive Armor lasts for 10 seconds so what's stopping you from CCing me, it's not like the ultimate gives me CC immunity. All you do is knock me down then I break free that right there is already 4 seconds give or take and by the time I move myself to you to do 1 hit it's over so don't even consider that ability. In duels only those who rock 1H/board use this ability for mitigation.

Hardened armor is a decent ability in PvE but in PvP it's pretty useless against those with crit builds as they slice through said hardened armor like cheese. People who do 1v1 do use that ability to mitigate a certain portion of damage but nontheless it's typically a waste of a slot unless you're rocking 3 inf 4 impen.

Cinder storm I'm guessing you're referring to that it use to be a good ability but is utter trash given the diameter of said ability is much smaller than Caltrops

Molt arm is risky with stamina attacks as you can literally see it hitting you and if you block or dodge that 43% is no longer in affect oh and if you heal slightly over that 50% threshold (which is easy) it doesn't proc.

All those skills aside from the ultimate so far are Magicka abilities, again I thought you were talking about stamina abilities so let's keep it the way you said before "Stam DK" we're not talking about magicka Dk because no matter what I've got 3 hardened armors 2 molt arm/ cinder storms before I run out of magicka. In-case you didn't realize that's using them separately. Let's keep this stamina related shall we because we have no good decent stamina abilities but you claim other wise as if we do. In duels I have never seen a DK vs another class (unless another DK) using DoTs. Also don't bring a ability that every class can use because templars use Wrecking blow too

I've seen plenty of stamplars use breath of life to fill up their health maybe I'm missing something here. Jabs I do know sometimes they don't connect but like I said with movement impairment it's practically over unless you get out of the affecting area.

I'm not sure what sustain you're getting at as we only get spell resistance and health regen. Now the earthen heart passive line is pretty damn awesome compared to draconic and ardent flame which can be debateable but are fairly useless.
Looking through templar you've got some pretty nice passives from at-least two skill lines burning light as stated and one that reduces cost off magicka/stamina/ult cost, increase weapon damage and ulti regen.

When we talk about sustain please refer to what kind of regeneration we get via stamina/magicka becauase as far as I know unless they recently patched it in (yesterday) we have no stamina/magicka regen via passive. We do use earthen heart abilities to gain 5% stamina and that's it.

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Oh and Stam DK is only "Powerful" because people see the abilities like hardened armor and expect other DKs to run hardened armor + shuffle on top of the fact they think take flight is some GODLY powerful Ulti in PvP when it's utterly pathetic as you could slightly move out of it's range and it's a miss or you could dodge it and dodge roll it.

Wrecking blow isn't a DK move nor is steel tornado/focus aim.

Stam DKs have two Dot based skills that do nothing for damage as 3.3k *50% well you see where this is going and the DoT damage is reduced by BS and CP Thick skin/elemental.

How will Stam DKs get stronger? If they give us a attribute whip (so magicka DK can thrive too), if they make stone giant a stamina morph, if they make DoTs explode or give minor/major defile upon purge/heal/shield, and if they un-nerf a lot of abilities that we use to utilize one being "Flames of Oblivion"

I said what I had to say. If you still think Stamina Templars are performing better than Stamina DKs in PvP, or have better odds, then it is your own choise to live in delusíon.

Nifty2g wrote: »

Too many people playing 1 class and trying to get it buffed in this thread and not knowing how others work

Euqally many people in general on this forum claiming in-depth knowledge with all classes to further their agenda of buffing one class; "because I play all classes equally much so I know what I am talking about".

If a Stamina Templar was going against a Stamina Dragonknight, tell me who would win and why - make sure to keep it unbiased

To me it sounds like you have trouble playing Stamina Templar, and you're basing your whole argument based on your own capabilities rather than knowing what makes it good/bad

the stam dk.
more dmg, more healing, better sustain(battle roar + heroic slash = weeehaaaa), better cc, far better fight support utility than the stamplar.

Tryxus

Nifty2g wrote: »

My evaluation - Templar would win
The reason a Templar should win this would be because of Purify and Balanced Warrior Passive, if we put both classes in the same gear, Templars are going to come out stronger each time because of passives giving them stronger weapon damage. Dragonknight has access to Petrify, Leap and Wings, 2 DoTs but in this scenario the Wings and DoTs are useless.

So if Templar can counter a lot of skills and have access to high regen and weapon damage. What makes it weak?

You must know that you should have Biting Jabs and Wrecking Blow on your bar because of Piercing Spear (Increases the damage bonus for your Critical Strikes by (10)% and your damage against blocking targets by (10)%.) mix that with an Empowered Wrecking Blow and Balanced Warrior (Increases Weapon Damage by 6% and Spell Resistance by (2000)

Do you not read Templar Passives? Hit someone with Wrecking Blow then Biting Jabs as they are stunned with no shield for Burning Light procs as well would probably do the most damage theoretically

l2p dude and learn your class passives and how to utilize them, yes this is me saying Stamina Templars are in a fine spot the only issue would be Puncturing Sweeps / Biting Jabs being weak against shields, Toppling Charge needs a Stamina Morph and Burning Light needs to proc on shields.

Are you feeling alright dude?

Open your mouth and say "AH!"

rfennell_ESO

NVNiko wrote: »

BUFF SORCS PLZ

suuuuuuuuurrrrrrreeeeee

Mumyo

Tryxus wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

My evaluation - Templar would win
The reason a Templar should win this would be because of Purify and Balanced Warrior Passive, if we put both classes in the same gear, Templars are going to come out stronger each time because of passives giving them stronger weapon damage. Dragonknight has access to Petrify, Leap and Wings, 2 DoTs but in this scenario the Wings and DoTs are useless.

So if Templar can counter a lot of skills and have access to high regen and weapon damage. What makes it weak?

You must know that you should have Biting Jabs and Wrecking Blow on your bar because of Piercing Spear (Increases the damage bonus for your Critical Strikes by (10)% and your damage against blocking targets by (10)%.) mix that with an Empowered Wrecking Blow and Balanced Warrior (Increases Weapon Damage by 6% and Spell Resistance by (2000)

Do you not read Templar Passives? Hit someone with Wrecking Blow then Biting Jabs as they are stunned with no shield for Burning Light procs as well would probably do the most damage theoretically

l2p dude and learn your class passives and how to utilize them, yes this is me saying Stamina Templars are in a fine spot the only issue would be Puncturing Sweeps / Biting Jabs being weak against shields, Toppling Charge needs a Stamina Morph and Burning Light needs to proc on shields.

Are you feeling alright dude?

Open your mouth and say "AH!"

he doesnt even know that dk has passive weapon dmg bonus by using earthern heart xD

Zinaroth

Just putting this here, think it fits the subject perfectly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG9TXm-ylxw

Oh. he's using Obsidian Shard to boost his healing and keep weapon damage buff and ulti generation from passive rolling, I think I mentioned that?
Oh, he's using Reflective Scales constantly to throw peoples damage right back in their face eventhough it's a magicka ability and he is stamina, I think I mentioned that?
Oh, he's utilizing a class damage over time effect to spread that damage around eventhough appearently DoTs are completely useless, I think I mentioned that?
Oh, he's using Dragon Leap to burst people down really effectively, I think I mentioned that?
Oh, he's regenerating so much rescources from the Battle Roar passive through use of his Dragon Leap, because his ultimate is regeneration super fast through his passive and Heroic Slash, making him boost his rescource management insanely, like Stamina DKs can, I think I mentioned that?

Pretty good showcase of what a Stamina DK can pull off in PvP and how much magicka based utility he can fire off eventhough he's stamina based. Wouldn't you nay-sayers agree? By all means if you can provide a video of a Stamplar pulling off the same level of gameplay in PvP feel free to surprise me.

Not sure how many more high profile Stamplar PvPers I need to pull in here aswell though to make you guys realize you're wrong, and that personally insulting someone you disagree with when it turns out he is actually the most knowledgeable person on the subject is pretty damn stupid. Hope you're not too emberassed over yourselves.

Cinbri

Stamina Templar stronger than Stamina DK????
Sorry, but when i see that i loosing my capability to say something. I really don't know what game someone could play to think that it is true. This is no valid for Elder Scrolls Online for 100%. Hope it will be as it after Update 9, and we, Templar, will be called fotmers and op unskillfull one-button users, so everyone will roll this extincted class(and yes, for me, healbots are not templars).
And btw Restoring Focus grant useless 8% healing since release of buff system, i.e. for half a year, knowledge that people still don't know it coz skill pathetically useless [like the most of templar skills/passives], is making me sad. But, well, i not surprised hard by this coz even many "dedicated" templars still believe that Backlash is unpurgable.

RatedChaotic

When posting stuff like this make sure the information is correct. There is alot of information in that chart that is wrong. NBs have a few abilities where it will heal them for starters. So listing that there is no self healing nb abilities is wrong on many levels. Refreshing Path heals. Killing the target with Mark Target on it will heal.

There are many factors that the chart doesnt show. So I find that chart worthless.

RoamingRiverElk

Omg, PLEASE NO. Classes DO NOT NEED TO, and should not, mirror each other so completely. No, I don't want my wings as dk to reflect or counter wrecking blows, even in this state of the magicka DKs, for instance.

Cinbri

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

Omg, PLEASE NO. Classes DO NOT NEED TO, and should not, mirror each other so completely. No, I don't want my wings as dk to reflect or counter wrecking blows, even in this state of the magicka DKs, for instance.

You don't want it but i know you secretly dreaming about it

RoamingRiverElk

Cinbri wrote: »

RoamingRiverElk wrote: »

Omg, PLEASE NO. Classes DO NOT NEED TO, and should not, mirror each other so completely. No, I don't want my wings as dk to reflect or counter wrecking blows, even in this state of the magicka DKs, for instance.

You don't want it but i know you secretly dreaming about it

Last night, and I'm not kidding about this, I actually had a dream... In which I specced my PvP Magicka DK into a PvE DD. Which is saying something...

Ace_SiN

I REALLY hope they ignore the "make every class the same" point of this thread. There is absolutely no point in having classes if they are simply a visual change. Back in BETA I advocated for a more sandbox approach to character development(remove classes entirely and have access to all skills). However, since then I've leveled plenty of characters to vet level and have no desire to see them become homogenized. That would be a lot of wasted effort.

With that said, there are a few basics that each class should provide on their own that works for both stamina and magicka builds.

1) Instant cast damage skill

2) Self healing skill

3) Some form of mitigation(dodge chance or armor)

Efaritay

Applying your changes would completely ruin the diversity of this game. Everyone would be running around with the same rotation pretty much, providing no advantages.

The only thing I agree with is that Sorcerers need a single target, insta cast DPS ability. Relying on Overload for max DPS means I never get to see Stormy

MrGigglypants

I disagree across the board. also temps have vamp bane as a dot. You want every class to be the same but that takes away variety. There really are far less balance issues than you suggest. I'd say the biggest fix would be to increase the base stam regen across the board to help out magicka users survivability. You clearly play sorc the most lol every line is a hidden nerf nb buff everything else nowhere do I see a universal shield for stam users? Yet you want magicka vigor? @NVNiko

MrGigglypants

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Fuzzybrick wrote: »

No, no, no. @ZOS_GinaBruno please ignore this post. Classes SHOULD NOT BE EQUAL. One class should always be better than another. One class should always do something another can't. If all classes are "balanced" as you say there will be no need for any of my alts. I want to roll different characters because they are DIFFERENT!

Well, feedback is just that. It's feedback, and everyone is entitled to it. When we review feedback, it's coming from many different sources and players, and part of our job (the studio) is to determine what changes and adjustments to make based on many factors - including player feedback.

That said, our general philosophy in regards to classes is not to give everyone the same version of a spell with a different name. We want each class to feel unique and have their own special identity.

Nice, it's relieving to know ZOS takes these forums with a grain of salt.

Cinbri

Zinaroth wrote: »

Just putting this here, think it fits the subject perfectly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG9TXm-ylxw

Oh. he's using Obsidian Shard to boost his healing and keep weapon damage buff and ulti generation from passive rolling, I think I mentioned that?
Oh, he's using Reflective Scales constantly to throw peoples damage right back in their face eventhough it's a magicka ability and he is stamina, I think I mentioned that?
Oh, he's utilizing a class damage over time effect to spread that damage around eventhough appearently DoTs are completely useless, I think I mentioned that?
Oh, he's using Dragon Leap to burst people down really effectively, I think I mentioned that?
Oh, he's regenerating so much rescources from the Battle Roar passive through use of his Dragon Leap, because his ultimate is regeneration super fast through his passive and Heroic Slash, making him boost his rescource management insanely, like Stamina DKs can, I think I mentioned that?

Pretty good showcase of what a Stamina DK can pull off in PvP and how much magicka based utility he can fire off eventhough he's stamina based. Wouldn't you nay-sayers agree? By all means if you can provide a video of a Stamplar pulling off the same level of gameplay in PvP feel free to surprise me.

Not sure how many more high profile Stamplar PvPers I need to pull in here aswell though to make you guys realize you're wrong, and that personally insulting someone you disagree with when it turns out he is actually the most knowledgeable person on the subject is pretty damn stupid. Hope you're not too emberassed over yourselves.

Btw @Zinaroth you shouldn't link this video. This dk known for using exploit and seriously claiming that stamina dk equal to magicka templar. In addition that he mastered his raging skill.

Zinaroth

Cinbri wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Just putting this here, think it fits the subject perfectly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG9TXm-ylxw

Oh. he's using Obsidian Shard to boost his healing and keep weapon damage buff and ulti generation from passive rolling, I think I mentioned that?
Oh, he's using Reflective Scales constantly to throw peoples damage right back in their face eventhough it's a magicka ability and he is stamina, I think I mentioned that?
Oh, he's utilizing a class damage over time effect to spread that damage around eventhough appearently DoTs are completely useless, I think I mentioned that?
Oh, he's using Dragon Leap to burst people down really effectively, I think I mentioned that?
Oh, he's regenerating so much rescources from the Battle Roar passive through use of his Dragon Leap, because his ultimate is regeneration super fast through his passive and Heroic Slash, making him boost his rescource management insanely, like Stamina DKs can, I think I mentioned that?

Pretty good showcase of what a Stamina DK can pull off in PvP and how much magicka based utility he can fire off eventhough he's stamina based. Wouldn't you nay-sayers agree? By all means if you can provide a video of a Stamplar pulling off the same level of gameplay in PvP feel free to surprise me.

Not sure how many more high profile Stamplar PvPers I need to pull in here aswell though to make you guys realize you're wrong, and that personally insulting someone you disagree with when it turns out he is actually the most knowledgeable person on the subject is pretty damn stupid. Hope you're not too emberassed over yourselves.

Btw @Zinaroth you shouldn't link this video. This dk known for using exploit and seriously claiming that stamina dk equal to magicka templar. In addition that he mastered his raging skill.

I don't know him, what you say might be true. Don't see any indication of exploits used in this video though? What do you mean by Stamina DKs being equal to Magicka Templar? Is he claiming that Magicka Templars are just as good or what?

Cinbri

Zinaroth wrote: »

Cinbri wrote: »

Zinaroth wrote: »

Just putting this here, think it fits the subject perfectly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dG9TXm-ylxw

Oh. he's using Obsidian Shard to boost his healing and keep weapon damage buff and ulti generation from passive rolling, I think I mentioned that?
Oh, he's using Reflective Scales constantly to throw peoples damage right back in their face eventhough it's a magicka ability and he is stamina, I think I mentioned that?
Oh, he's utilizing a class damage over time effect to spread that damage around eventhough appearently DoTs are completely useless, I think I mentioned that?
Oh, he's using Dragon Leap to burst people down really effectively, I think I mentioned that?
Oh, he's regenerating so much rescources from the Battle Roar passive through use of his Dragon Leap, because his ultimate is regeneration super fast through his passive and Heroic Slash, making him boost his rescource management insanely, like Stamina DKs can, I think I mentioned that?

Pretty good showcase of what a Stamina DK can pull off in PvP and how much magicka based utility he can fire off eventhough he's stamina based. Wouldn't you nay-sayers agree? By all means if you can provide a video of a Stamplar pulling off the same level of gameplay in PvP feel free to surprise me.

Not sure how many more high profile Stamplar PvPers I need to pull in here aswell though to make you guys realize you're wrong, and that personally insulting someone you disagree with when it turns out he is actually the most knowledgeable person on the subject is pretty damn stupid. Hope you're not too emberassed over yourselves.

Btw @Zinaroth you shouldn't link this video. This dk known for using exploit and seriously claiming that stamina dk equal to magicka templar. In addition that he mastered his raging skill.

I don't know him, what you say might be true. Don't see any indication of exploits used in this video though? What do you mean by Stamina DKs being equal to Magicka Templar? Is he claiming that Magicka Templars are just as good or what?

I will private msg you.

MaxwellC

Lol I was going to leave this alone but you said find some videos of 1vx on youtube? Sure I type in stamplar and look at all these videos utilizing jabs even though they're partially broken.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmgZvpkBgiY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djlbYrPmei0

Oh and the second video oh what's that he reflected a comet? Oh how did he do that? Oh I know he used bolster defence oh man.. The second clip what's this stamplar utilizing heals to keep himself alive? Oh you cried blasphemy saying something like no one can do that.

Might I add that DK was using the skill set which is half and half exploit that EVERY CLASS CAN DO? Was that DK utilizing his skills for DPS in that vid all I saw was reverb I believe it was ransack and bash afterwards which anyone can agree with is pretty much the new 1h/shield meta in PvP since you can cancel into all of those especially on PC with macros at lightning speed.
I believe everyone knows that exploit with axes (I'll leave it at that) so yeah Cinbri was right it's a cheap cheat that ZoS has yet to fix.

Imma leave it at that, you can think Stam DK is OP because of it's passive. You guys feel that DKs are just gonna keep refreshing mountain's blessing and so they can get a ultimate to gain resources with battle roar. Battle roar is at it's best when ultimate cost 200 and up because the return is just as big as the cost but when it's 100-125 it's nothing to cry OP over.
Heroic slash is another skill that EVERY CLASS has access too so stop saying Stam DK is OP when every class can utilize said skill.
Stam DK being OP would make sense if half the skills in the DK category did decent damage (NOT ULTIMATES) and if they were either attribute related or stamina related. If I'm using wrecking blow and I'm a Stam DK that makes me OP for what? Having good passives? What good passives aid in increasing my weapon skills damage other than mountains blessing.
That DK used max stat food so he had enough magicka to use those abilities but not only that it looks like he also had probbly 2k-4k extra magicka via enchantments on his armor so he's not fully invested in stamina like most stam DKs (I'm about 95% invested into stamina).

We use to rain at the top but the only reason why stam DKs are considered powerful is due to it's abilities and passives that aren't as good as every other class in general. We have like 3 or 4 good passives the entire ardent flame passive is useless to stam DKs who don't utilize one of the skills from it's tree and draconic power is literally a tank passive that doesn't actually help you in PvP since health regen means nothing in-comparison to self heals you can use.

When you talk about a class being powerful please refer to their class skills and stop saying "Oh because they got wrecking blow they're OP" because every class has access to that skill. Lastly burst damage with leap? LoL? Why would I use leap to for burst damage when I can animation cancel a dawn breaker at you or wrecking blow into dawn breaker? Please people just stop.

WalkingLegacy

Definitely don't want same abilities for all classes....they can be very different while providing same damage or utility.

Diversity in animations is needed for a modern MMO.

Game needs hardcore balancing for sure. And Elder AoE Online could have more intimate combat over all this AoE spamming.

Zinaroth

MaxwellCrystal wrote: »

Lol I was going to leave this alone but you said find some videos of 1vx on youtube? Sure I type in stamplar and look at all these videos utilizing jabs even though they're partially broken.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CmgZvpkBgiY
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=djlbYrPmei0

Oh and the second video oh what's that he reflected a comet? Oh how did he do that? Oh I know he used bolster defence oh man.. The second clip what's this stamplar utilizing heals to keep himself alive? Oh you cried blasphemy saying something like no one can do that.

Might I add that DK was using the skill set which is half and half exploit that EVERY CLASS CAN DO? Was that DK utilizing his skills for DPS in that vid all I saw was reverb I believe it was ransack and bash afterwards which anyone can agree with is pretty much the new 1h/shield meta in PvP since you can cancel into all of those especially on PC with macros at lightning speed.
I believe everyone knows that exploit with axes (I'll leave it at that) so yeah Cinbri was right it's a cheap cheat that ZoS has yet to fix.

Imma leave it at that, you can think Stam DK is OP because of it's passive. You guys feel that DKs are just gonna keep refreshing mountain's blessing and so they can get a ultimate to gain resources with battle roar. Battle roar is at it's best when ultimate cost 200 and up because the return is just as big as the cost but when it's 100-125 it's nothing to cry OP over.
Heroic slash is another skill that EVERY CLASS has access too so stop saying Stam DK is OP when every class can utilize said skill.
Stam DK being OP would make sense if half the skills in the DK category did decent damage (NOT ULTIMATES) and if they were either attribute related or stamina related. If I'm using wrecking blow and I'm a Stam DK that makes me OP for what? Having good passives? What good passives aid in increasing my weapon skills damage other than mountains blessing.
That DK used max stat food so he had enough magicka to use those abilities but not only that it looks like he also had probbly 2k-4k extra magicka via enchantments on his armor so he's not fully invested in stamina like most stam DKs (I'm about 95% invested into stamina).

We use to rain at the top but the only reason why stam DKs are considered powerful is due to it's abilities and passives that aren't as good as every other class in general. We have like 3 or 4 good passives the entire ardent flame passive is useless to stam DKs who don't utilize one of the skills from it's tree and draconic power is literally a tank passive that doesn't actually help you in PvP since health regen means nothing in-comparison to self heals you can use.

When you talk about a class being powerful please refer to their class skills and stop saying "Oh because they got wrecking blow they're OP" because every class has access to that skill. Lastly burst damage with leap? LoL? Why would I use leap to for burst damage when I can animation cancel a dawn breaker at you or wrecking blow into dawn breaker? Please people just stop.

He certainly did well, but as opposed to the Stam DK, the Stamplar in this video relies on spreading people out so he can finish them off 1 by 1, which is perfectly fine, but he wouldn't be able to take them head on like the Stam DK.

Sure second video he reflects a frag with 1hs skill, sure, everyone can do that. The DK reflect is still way better.

You are using macros as your argument? You have no clue. The best players don't use macroes, they're unreliable because you will never have the same latency. They do it themselves. This macro argument...

Sure he was abusing the axe bleed, but that is not what is truely allowing him to take them on, it does help though, yes.

I never said Stam DKs were OP because of their passive, the argument was on whether Stamina DKs perform better in PvP, and in particular duels, and especially against Stamplars, which is what I said they do. All I said was that Stam DKs are more potent in PvP tham Stamplars currently are. Never said anything about them being OP, ever.

What makes Heroic Slash and extra ultimate generation in particular way better for the DK than other classes eventhough everyone has access to them, is because everytime a DK pops an ulti it's like popping a potion. It's a strength, not claiming it is OP, just pointing it out, and saying that I also pointed it out before, like the other things, but you guys dismissed them.

No other passives aid you in increasing your damage other than Mountain's Blessing just like Stamplars only have Balanced Warrior. The strength from the DK comes in it's awesome utility skills and rescource management, not in burst or insane damage like the NB or Sorcs.

It's not about the max magicka though, it's about the magicka regen, that is what is important for being able to use a lot of his utility skills, he doesn't need a big pool, just some good rescource regen. The ultimate regenning stats helps a lot with this.

I agree that Sorcs and NBs in general have better passives than DKs, but Templars definately don't, and no matter how *** you might believe DK passives are it doesn't change the fact that they currently possess the best dueling build.

I agree that health regen is a really useless stat, yes DKs can make some pretty gimmicky health regen builds where they just won't die, but they won't be killing much either. Believe me as a Nord I feel the pain.

I never mentioned any skills that every class has access to. I emphasized the passive DKs have, their ultis and their utility skills, all exclusive to DK. I feel like you're quoting me for something someone else said. I only mentioned Heroic Slash because it synergizes so well with the DK passives because of its ult generation. Ofcourse every class benefits from ult generation, but the DK is the class who is most reliable on using ults because it helps them a lot in terms of regen.

Dawnbreaker will never be better than Leap in its current iteration, never. Not if you play stamina. You might want to slot Flaweless Dawnbreaker for the passive weapon damage increase, but you will still be using Dragon Leap. It does more damage, hits a bigger area, and CCs people.

Once again I would like to iterate; I do not think Stamina DKs are OP, I never said that, I am only saying that they are currently doing better than Stamina Templars in all aspects of the game, including PvP. They have better DPS, better burst, more sustain, better self healing, better self buffs and better utility skills. In contrast Stamplars have no utility skills beside Purifying Ritual that is worth using, which means they will probably invest more into stamina and stamina regen, this means they might have better offense stats, but in the end, they won't have any proper utility from inside their own skill tree or any good passives helping them sustain, or stay alive. Not like the DK, and definately not like the NB who gets passive armor and spell resistance.