You dont need conclusive video evidence. Try playing the game and moving/using skills while this is happening - good luck.
Teargrants wrote: »Because it's not like every single time I walk into an inner breach, I don't know you guys will be balled up standing on the little ledge half way up the stairs about to drop a Meteor shower on us. That's not something that's up for debate, I'm sure any guild that's gone up against you guys in the past few months can confirm.
With 250 days played on my sorc. I can say, whats wrong with using cheap (broken) skills to counter other cheap (broken) skills. I'm looking at you non critable shield stacking. (Or vice versa. Using non critable shield stacking to negate ambush spammers) Whats wrong with using Meteor on stairs to get fall dmg kills when your outnumbered 4x over and we have things like AoE caps that empower the numbers game . Not to mention fall dmg supposed to be fixed months ago. Killing a few in large raids means nothing, with kags set ppl pop right back up and into the fight no rez sickness adding to the AoE cap. With further reduced dmg last patch I don't even call you guys pugs anymore. You're just AoE caps to me.
-Methuselah
There are plenty of times that you guys do this even when you do the outnumbering. Even when we have similar numbers and we're in open field and there's friendly "come fight me" banter, I still see you guys maneuvering to find an incline, stairs, whatever. Even if it's just for lols at that point - repeatedly, and knowingly using an incredibly broken mechanic like that starts to put those players into the same category as the sorc who shall not be named that used to bug out damage mitigation on his shields. We're not talking about dual wield hammers kinda broken, we're talking about oneshotting multiple people with no counter other than to never leave flat ground. The players in haxus are good enough to win without relying on broken oneshot mechanics, even when outnumbered; it's beneath you, and it diminishes all of the skillful play you guys do outside of it.I could write a whole essay on this, but I'll go back ingame and meteor fall dmg ppl until enough complain and something is done to fix it. Thought you would know thats how this works by now.
We've been complaining about it forever, and the few things that have been fixed due to complaints (exploiting into outposts, etc.) took many long months for a fix to even worm its way into a patch. You guys are using it either for the lols, or because it's easy. Most players realize when a bug/exploit is so past the point of broken that it shouldn't even be used. I've never had to worry about yellow doing this us. Why are you even in pvp if you're just looking to hit one button and oneshot people without them even being able to do anything about it? It's sad, and you really shouldn't continue trying to defend it - there's no way that this turns out well.
Sorry Zheg, fall damage is something that doesn't get discussed, and certainly isn't a group tactic. You can take your tin foil hat off whenever you're ready.
As I recall, months ago after the 1st time we encountered this tactic that "isn't a group tactic", we were told in no unclear terms that exploiting the Meteor fall dmg was purposeful and we would be seeing it consistently in the future because it was quote, "the only way to beat your Barrier/Steel Tornado spam group." Everything I have seen since has simply continued to confirm this assertion.
You can believe whatever you want Kirsi, but unless it comes out of my, Zavus's, or Hek's mouth it isn't a policy. Your groups consistently outnumber us by 2-3x our numbers, especially 1-2 months ago. With 8-10 people spamming the most op aoe this game has seen, steel tornado, with another 16 people proxing at the same time, and with a rotation of barriers. Everything is in your favor, more healers, more ultimates, more damage, better ability to deal with lag due to numbers being the key advantage in lag, and you take a fraction of the damage we take due to this game's brokenly *** aoe cap. Therefore, we needed a new approach to deal with such a group.
We brainstormed and decided we needed a ranged ult that wasn't class based and could be used in coordination. Meteors provide the burst, cc, and a dot that make them extremely valuable at range when a significant number of them are used. Fall damage is just another example of ZOS's incapability to fix their pvp, which I don't believe will ever happen at this point. The irony that anything is being said by VE members is funny. In 1.6 where lag was horrendous, aoe balling up by large groups would cause more lag than unorganized zergs. Yet, did VE ever change their tactics and spread out? No, they would show up and be unkillable while everyone else around them couldn't use any skills. I'm not blaming VE for the lag, that's obviously on ZOS, yet your tactics in that situation enhanced the problem and leave you with no room to call anyone out on anything. Before you call Havoc out on the same thing, when they ran groups of similar tactics it was with 8-12 people less on average and during a time where lag wasn't as bad.
Darnathian wrote: »Teargrants wrote: »Because it's not like every single time I walk into an inner breach, I don't know you guys will be balled up standing on the little ledge half way up the stairs about to drop a Meteor shower on us. That's not something that's up for debate, I'm sure any guild that's gone up against you guys in the past few months can confirm.
With 250 days played on my sorc. I can say, whats wrong with using cheap (broken) skills to counter other cheap (broken) skills. I'm looking at you non critable shield stacking. (Or vice versa. Using non critable shield stacking to negate ambush spammers) Whats wrong with using Meteor on stairs to get fall dmg kills when your outnumbered 4x over and we have things like AoE caps that empower the numbers game . Not to mention fall dmg supposed to be fixed months ago. Killing a few in large raids means nothing, with kags set ppl pop right back up and into the fight no rez sickness adding to the AoE cap. With further reduced dmg last patch I don't even call you guys pugs anymore. You're just AoE caps to me.
-Methuselah
There are plenty of times that you guys do this even when you do the outnumbering. Even when we have similar numbers and we're in open field and there's friendly "come fight me" banter, I still see you guys maneuvering to find an incline, stairs, whatever. Even if it's just for lols at that point - repeatedly, and knowingly using an incredibly broken mechanic like that starts to put those players into the same category as the sorc who shall not be named that used to bug out damage mitigation on his shields. We're not talking about dual wield hammers kinda broken, we're talking about oneshotting multiple people with no counter other than to never leave flat ground. The players in haxus are good enough to win without relying on broken oneshot mechanics, even when outnumbered; it's beneath you, and it diminishes all of the skillful play you guys do outside of it.I could write a whole essay on this, but I'll go back ingame and meteor fall dmg ppl until enough complain and something is done to fix it. Thought you would know thats how this works by now.
We've been complaining about it forever, and the few things that have been fixed due to complaints (exploiting into outposts, etc.) took many long months for a fix to even worm its way into a patch. You guys are using it either for the lols, or because it's easy. Most players realize when a bug/exploit is so past the point of broken that it shouldn't even be used. I've never had to worry about yellow doing this us. Why are you even in pvp if you're just looking to hit one button and oneshot people without them even being able to do anything about it? It's sad, and you really shouldn't continue trying to defend it - there's no way that this turns out well.
Sorry Zheg, fall damage is something that doesn't get discussed, and certainly isn't a group tactic. You can take your tin foil hat off whenever you're ready.
As I recall, months ago after the 1st time we encountered this tactic that "isn't a group tactic", we were told in no unclear terms that exploiting the Meteor fall dmg was purposeful and we would be seeing it consistently in the future because it was quote, "the only way to beat your Barrier/Steel Tornado spam group." Everything I have seen since has simply continued to confirm this assertion.
You can believe whatever you want Kirsi, but unless it comes out of my, Zavus's, or Hek's mouth it isn't a policy. Your groups consistently outnumber us by 2-3x our numbers, especially 1-2 months ago. With 8-10 people spamming the most op aoe this game has seen, steel tornado, with another 16 people proxing at the same time, and with a rotation of barriers. Everything is in your favor, more healers, more ultimates, more damage, better ability to deal with lag due to numbers being the key advantage in lag, and you take a fraction of the damage we take due to this game's brokenly *** aoe cap. Therefore, we needed a new approach to deal with such a group.
We brainstormed and decided we needed a ranged ult that wasn't class based and could be used in coordination. Meteors provide the burst, cc, and a dot that make them extremely valuable at range when a significant number of them are used. Fall damage is just another example of ZOS's incapability to fix their pvp, which I don't believe will ever happen at this point. The irony that anything is being said by VE members is funny. In 1.6 where lag was horrendous, aoe balling up by large groups would cause more lag than unorganized zergs. Yet, did VE ever change their tactics and spread out? No, they would show up and be unkillable while everyone else around them couldn't use any skills. I'm not blaming VE for the lag, that's obviously on ZOS, yet your tactics in that situation enhanced the problem and leave you with no room to call anyone out on anything. Before you call Havoc out on the same thing, when they ran groups of similar tactics it was with 8-12 people less on average and during a time where lag wasn't as bad.
lol. Translation. we are outnumbered so this is why we exploit. you start by saying only listen to you three but then you come up with a fancy way of saying ya we exploit but its okay because we are outnumbered. that was a good read. ty.
Crit rush, Invasion etc have a minimal range you need to have to your opponent
Ambush does not, which makes it a "idiotproof" gap closer.
Now one might ask WHY does it not have a minimal range needed? Only ZOS knows the answer to this question, actually I am not even sure if they know lul
Teleport Strike, Ambush and Lotus Fan do not have a minimum range because they are specifically designed to combo with Surprise Attack(5m) and Concealed Weapon (5m) to deliver the stun effect. Ambush is the only gap closer that has an immobilize, or rather that is supposed to have. Now all gap closers have that mini hitch because of lazy coding. It's design was intended to give the NB control over melee combat situations, or more specifically positional superiority.
This is exactly why it does not break Cloak either, to facilitate the stun (If the player knows what they are doing)
Concealed Weapon, Ambush and Teleport Strike do NOT stun you, or prevent/interrupt any actions you may be doing, with one exception.
Ambush is capable of receiving the "stealth" attack modifier, allowing it to stun you once per encounter from stealth, not invisibility. Just like other abilities and light/heavy attacks.
Some of you people need to stop spreading false information, learn the differences between morphs and character states before crying foul.
Ambush has a 1 second immobolize Ie..you stop moving for 1 second.
Lotus Fan has an AoE Snare
Surprise Attack and Concealed Weapon both stun from stealth and invisibility.
*Special Note- Immobilize, root and snare have no CC immunity currently in ESO.*
Now to add some perspective I'll list some abilities that benefit more from this non-immunity.
1.Bombard
2. Talons
3. Encase
As for some of you saying this is bad gameplay, that's debatable. If you watch the clip, the fight starts fairly normal. Ambush into a Surprise attack. But as Sypher gets more mobile, so must the NB's. Now I think it's a perfectly valid tactic for one NB to spam Ambush to lock down Sypher while allowing others to do the dps and finish him. I think the only reason both were using it nearly exclusive at one points was because they were 2 random pugs and thus could not coordinate appropriately.
I also dare anyone to deny that in this situation, we would not see Crit Rush or Invasion spammed just as much if not more, since neither has an immobilize, every time he Bolted.
Generally speaking, I believe there are 2 instances where Ambush spam is good form/gameplay.
1. Locking down a particularly pesky runner, so your group/alliance mates can kill them.
2. Locking down Mistformers so your group/alliance mates can kill them.
Basically using Ambush as a utility ability rather than for dps. (think Bombard spamming)
Just my 2 cents.
You don´t understand the problem. Yay for an opinion on a topic you don´t grasp the basics of.
The issue is not the root ambush should/does apply after it landed. It´s the root silence (not effected by any immunity in the game) it does apply during its animation before it lands (like every gapcloser).
...In 1.6 where lag was horrendous, aoe balling up by large groups would cause more lag than unorganized zergs. Yet, did VE ever change their tactics and spread out? No, they would show up and be unkillable while everyone else around them couldn't use any skills. I'm not blaming VE for the lag, that's obviously on ZOS, yet your tactics in that situation enhanced the problem and leave you with no room to call anyone out on anything.
Think it's more strange that between the majority of your ability casts you light attacked. Even when an enemy wasn't in your view. Habit or... ?
All well and good, but I believe what I see and his is what I see. We don't always outnumber you. There are plenty of fights, keep takes even where you guys have as many in raid as we do, sometimes even a friendly red raid in the inner with you. It doesn't matter, you do the same thing every time.You can believe whatever you want Kirsi, but unless it comes out of my, Zavus's, or Hek's mouth it isn't a policy. Your groups consistently outnumber us by 2-3x our numbers, especially 1-2 months ago. With 8-10 people spamming the most op aoe this game has seen, steel tornado, with another 16 people proxing at the same time, and with a rotation of barriers. Everything is in your favor, more healers, more ultimates, more damage, better ability to deal with lag due to numbers being the key advantage in lag, and you take a fraction of the damage we take due to this game's brokenly *** aoe cap. Therefore, we needed a new approach to deal with such a group.
Ehhhhhhhhh, except our tactics don't consist of exploiting known bugs. So can I please have the exact number at which exploiting meteor fall damage bug en masse goes from 'good' to 'bad'? I ask because it isn't just some meteors dropping here and there, it's 5+ meteors popping at once with your group always being in the same spot on the ledge halfway up the breach side stairs. You guys don't do giant meteor showers outside of stairs that can proc the fall dmg bug, in open field you guys mainly go bats. If meteor is just because it's a good ult and fall damage has nothing to do with it, then why this duality?We brainstormed and decided we needed a ranged ult that wasn't class based and could be used in coordination. Meteors provide the burst, cc, and a dot that make them extremely valuable at range when a significant number of them are used. Fall damage is just another example of ZOS's incapability to fix their pvp, which I don't believe will ever happen at this point. The irony that anything is being said by VE members is funny. In 1.6 where lag was horrendous, aoe balling up by large groups would cause more lag than unorganized zergs. Yet, did VE ever change their tactics and spread out? No, they would show up and be unkillable while everyone else around them couldn't use any skills. I'm not blaming VE for the lag, that's obviously on ZOS, yet your tactics in that situation enhanced the problem and leave you with no room to call anyone out on anything.
Whats wrong with using Meteor on stairs to get fall dmg kills when your outnumbered 4x over
-Methuselah
Two points, we usually had 20+ ppl in our nightly havoc raids, Annon and rhm used to get pretty pissed when we had less than that, I know cuz I ran with them. At least up until our reroll to blue. I'm not calling havoc out on anything. Second, lag wasn't as bad? I beg to differ, it was 'different' for sure, but just as bad as far as I'm concerned.Before you call Havoc out on the same thing, when they ran groups of similar tactics it was with 8-12 people less on average and during a time where lag wasn't as bad.
Crit rush, Invasion etc have a minimal range you need to have to your opponent
Ambush does not, which makes it a "idiotproof" gap closer.
Now one might ask WHY does it not have a minimal range needed? Only ZOS knows the answer to this question, actually I am not even sure if they know lul
Teleport Strike, Ambush and Lotus Fan do not have a minimum range because they are specifically designed to combo with Surprise Attack(5m) and Concealed Weapon (5m) to deliver the stun effect. Ambush is the only gap closer that has an immobilize, or rather that is supposed to have. Now all gap closers have that mini hitch because of lazy coding. It's design was intended to give the NB control over melee combat situations, or more specifically positional superiority.
This is exactly why it does not break Cloak either, to facilitate the stun (If the player knows what they are doing)
Concealed Weapon, Ambush and Teleport Strike do NOT stun you, or prevent/interrupt any actions you may be doing, with one exception.
Ambush is capable of receiving the "stealth" attack modifier, allowing it to stun you once per encounter from stealth, not invisibility. Just like other abilities and light/heavy attacks.
Some of you people need to stop spreading false information, learn the differences between morphs and character states before crying foul.
Ambush has a 1 second immobolize Ie..you stop moving for 1 second.
Lotus Fan has an AoE Snare
Surprise Attack and Concealed Weapon both stun from stealth and invisibility.
*Special Note- Immobilize, root and snare have no CC immunity currently in ESO.*
Now to add some perspective I'll list some abilities that benefit more from this non-immunity.
1.Bombard
2. Talons
3. Encase
As for some of you saying this is bad gameplay, that's debatable. If you watch the clip, the fight starts fairly normal. Ambush into a Surprise attack. But as Sypher gets more mobile, so must the NB's. Now I think it's a perfectly valid tactic for one NB to spam Ambush to lock down Sypher while allowing others to do the dps and finish him. I think the only reason both were using it nearly exclusive at one points was because they were 2 random pugs and thus could not coordinate appropriately.
I also dare anyone to deny that in this situation, we would not see Crit Rush or Invasion spammed just as much if not more, since neither has an immobilize, every time he Bolted.
Generally speaking, I believe there are 2 instances where Ambush spam is good form/gameplay.
1. Locking down a particularly pesky runner, so your group/alliance mates can kill them.
2. Locking down Mistformers so your group/alliance mates can kill them.
Basically using Ambush as a utility ability rather than for dps. (think Bombard spamming)
Just my 2 cents.
You don´t understand the problem. Yay for an opinion on a topic you don´t grasp the basics of.
The issue is not the root ambush should/does apply after it landed. It´s the root silence (not effected by any immunity in the game) it does apply during its animation before it lands (like every gapcloser).
I understand what folks are saying. I wholeheartedly disagree. I have successfully casted every spell while being Crit Rushed, Ambushed and Invasioned, sometimes from all 3 at the same time and I experience the "hitch" but not the silence you speak of.
List of spells that were not effected
Rally, Vigor, Lingering ritual, Purifying Ritual- Well lets just say I have yet to see any gap closer "silence me"
At this point I believe we can all agree to disagree until there is some video proof either way.
Elementary my dear watson.I watched this video again this morning. In general, the only times Sypher's bar is greyed out is while casting inevitable detonation, stunned or roll dodging -- at least until our view of him is blocked by a tree and we can't see his character to know its state. There are a couple of other times when his bar is greyed out, but only during one of them was ambush used--if ambush is the cause of it, why do we not see it other times when ambush is used?
Throughout multiple stretches, he is able to cast through persistent ambush spam. So if this issue is as bad as some say, I don't think it's represented in this video. Not conclusively, at least. To those unfamiliar with ambush, it is intended to immobilize: http://www.esohead.com/skills/25484-ambush
The recap is not reflective of everything thrown at him because he was low health under a damage shield for an extended period of time. I do not believe damage entirely absorbed by a damage shield is displayed in death recaps. So he may been stunned while obscured by the tree, unable to break free because of low stamina. His addon may have been slow in displaying the break-free message--it happens.
Teargrants wrote: »All well and good, but I believe what I see and his is what I see. We don't always outnumber you. There are plenty of fights, keep takes even where you guys have as many in raid as we do, sometimes even a friendly red raid in the inner with you. It doesn't matter, you do the same thing every time.You can believe whatever you want Kirsi, but unless it comes out of my, Zavus's, or Hek's mouth it isn't a policy. Your groups consistently outnumber us by 2-3x our numbers, especially 1-2 months ago. With 8-10 people spamming the most op aoe this game has seen, steel tornado, with another 16 people proxing at the same time, and with a rotation of barriers. Everything is in your favor, more healers, more ultimates, more damage, better ability to deal with lag due to numbers being the key advantage in lag, and you take a fraction of the damage we take due to this game's brokenly *** aoe cap. Therefore, we needed a new approach to deal with such a group.Ehhhhhhhhh, except our tactics don't consist of exploiting known bugs. So can I please have the exact number at which exploiting meteor fall damage bug en masse goes from 'good' to 'bad'? I ask because it isn't just some meteors dropping here and there, it's 5+ meteors popping at once with your group always being in the same spot on the ledge halfway up the breach side stairs. You guys don't do giant meteor showers outside of stairs that can proc the fall dmg bug, in open field you guys mainly go bats. If meteor is just because it's a good ult and fall damage has nothing to do with it, then why this duality?We brainstormed and decided we needed a ranged ult that wasn't class based and could be used in coordination. Meteors provide the burst, cc, and a dot that make them extremely valuable at range when a significant number of them are used. Fall damage is just another example of ZOS's incapability to fix their pvp, which I don't believe will ever happen at this point. The irony that anything is being said by VE members is funny. In 1.6 where lag was horrendous, aoe balling up by large groups would cause more lag than unorganized zergs. Yet, did VE ever change their tactics and spread out? No, they would show up and be unkillable while everyone else around them couldn't use any skills. I'm not blaming VE for the lag, that's obviously on ZOS, yet your tactics in that situation enhanced the problem and leave you with no room to call anyone out on anything.
Change our tactics and spread out? Are you secretly Frozn posting on Beast's acct? How pray tell does a raid spread out as it goes through the inner breach? Snake out and go in a couple at a time so that heals, barriers, purges don't work optimally? About your comparison to zergs and lag, balling up and pain training is how you kill them and stop the lag. You lead a raid, you do the same thing when you have the people - as does every other organized guild in the game. Pretending like it's irresponsible or something is just facetious.
Nor is his whole meteor discussion with you just a VE thing, I'm not here talking to you as the voice of VE or anything like that, I'm sure Mano and Mojican have plenty of their own to say on the matter.
Ahem...Whats wrong with using Meteor on stairs to get fall dmg kills when your outnumbered 4x over
-MethuselahTwo points, we usually had 20+ ppl in our nightly havoc raids, Annon and rhm used to get pretty pissed when we had less than that, I know cuz I ran with them. At least up until our reroll to blue. I'm not calling havoc out on anything. Second, lag wasn't as bad? I beg to differ, it was 'different' for sure, but just as bad as far as I'm concerned.Before you call Havoc out on the same thing, when they ran groups of similar tactics it was with 8-12 people less on average and during a time where lag wasn't as bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TdBGbojeFo
Think it's more strange that between the majority of your ability casts you light attacked. Even when an enemy wasn't in your view. Habit or... ?
Are you high? No seriously, are you? Because for whatever reason you simply didn't read or didn't comprehend my post or really any post in this thread about the meteor issue.Teargrants wrote: »All well and good, but I believe what I see and his is what I see. We don't always outnumber you. There are plenty of fights, keep takes even where you guys have as many in raid as we do, sometimes even a friendly red raid in the inner with you. It doesn't matter, you do the same thing every time.You can believe whatever you want Kirsi, but unless it comes out of my, Zavus's, or Hek's mouth it isn't a policy. Your groups consistently outnumber us by 2-3x our numbers, especially 1-2 months ago. With 8-10 people spamming the most op aoe this game has seen, steel tornado, with another 16 people proxing at the same time, and with a rotation of barriers. Everything is in your favor, more healers, more ultimates, more damage, better ability to deal with lag due to numbers being the key advantage in lag, and you take a fraction of the damage we take due to this game's brokenly *** aoe cap. Therefore, we needed a new approach to deal with such a group.Ehhhhhhhhh, except our tactics don't consist of exploiting known bugs. So can I please have the exact number at which exploiting meteor fall damage bug en masse goes from 'good' to 'bad'? I ask because it isn't just some meteors dropping here and there, it's 5+ meteors popping at once with your group always being in the same spot on the ledge halfway up the breach side stairs. You guys don't do giant meteor showers outside of stairs that can proc the fall dmg bug, in open field you guys mainly go bats. If meteor is just because it's a good ult and fall damage has nothing to do with it, then why this duality?We brainstormed and decided we needed a ranged ult that wasn't class based and could be used in coordination. Meteors provide the burst, cc, and a dot that make them extremely valuable at range when a significant number of them are used. Fall damage is just another example of ZOS's incapability to fix their pvp, which I don't believe will ever happen at this point. The irony that anything is being said by VE members is funny. In 1.6 where lag was horrendous, aoe balling up by large groups would cause more lag than unorganized zergs. Yet, did VE ever change their tactics and spread out? No, they would show up and be unkillable while everyone else around them couldn't use any skills. I'm not blaming VE for the lag, that's obviously on ZOS, yet your tactics in that situation enhanced the problem and leave you with no room to call anyone out on anything.
Change our tactics and spread out? Are you secretly Frozn posting on Beast's acct? How pray tell does a raid spread out as it goes through the inner breach? Snake out and go in a couple at a time so that heals, barriers, purges don't work optimally? About your comparison to zergs and lag, balling up and pain training is how you kill them and stop the lag. You lead a raid, you do the same thing when you have the people - as does every other organized guild in the game. Pretending like it's irresponsible or something is just facetious.
Nor is his whole meteor discussion with you just a VE thing, I'm not here talking to you as the voice of VE or anything like that, I'm sure Mano and Mojican have plenty of their own to say on the matter.
Ahem...Whats wrong with using Meteor on stairs to get fall dmg kills when your outnumbered 4x over
-MethuselahTwo points, we usually had 20+ ppl in our nightly havoc raids, Annon and rhm used to get pretty pissed when we had less than that, I know cuz I ran with them. At least up until our reroll to blue. I'm not calling havoc out on anything. Second, lag wasn't as bad? I beg to differ, it was 'different' for sure, but just as bad as far as I'm concerned.Before you call Havoc out on the same thing, when they ran groups of similar tactics it was with 8-12 people less on average and during a time where lag wasn't as bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TdBGbojeFo
You guys act like this is something new or done by one guild exclusively. You know as well as I do it's been going on for at least 7 months. It's been going on so long that im starting to think its an unintended mechanic that will be adopted soon. Much like animation canceling was.
Teargrants wrote: »All well and good, but I believe what I see and his is what I see. We don't always outnumber you. There are plenty of fights, keep takes even where you guys have as many in raid as we do, sometimes even a friendly red raid in the inner with you. It doesn't matter, you do the same thing every time.You can believe whatever you want Kirsi, but unless it comes out of my, Zavus's, or Hek's mouth it isn't a policy. Your groups consistently outnumber us by 2-3x our numbers, especially 1-2 months ago. With 8-10 people spamming the most op aoe this game has seen, steel tornado, with another 16 people proxing at the same time, and with a rotation of barriers. Everything is in your favor, more healers, more ultimates, more damage, better ability to deal with lag due to numbers being the key advantage in lag, and you take a fraction of the damage we take due to this game's brokenly *** aoe cap. Therefore, we needed a new approach to deal with such a group.Ehhhhhhhhh, except our tactics don't consist of exploiting known bugs. So can I please have the exact number at which exploiting meteor fall damage bug en masse goes from 'good' to 'bad'? I ask because it isn't just some meteors dropping here and there, it's 5+ meteors popping at once with your group always being in the same spot on the ledge halfway up the breach side stairs. You guys don't do giant meteor showers outside of stairs that can proc the fall dmg bug, in open field you guys mainly go bats. If meteor is just because it's a good ult and fall damage has nothing to do with it, then why this duality?We brainstormed and decided we needed a ranged ult that wasn't class based and could be used in coordination. Meteors provide the burst, cc, and a dot that make them extremely valuable at range when a significant number of them are used. Fall damage is just another example of ZOS's incapability to fix their pvp, which I don't believe will ever happen at this point. The irony that anything is being said by VE members is funny. In 1.6 where lag was horrendous, aoe balling up by large groups would cause more lag than unorganized zergs. Yet, did VE ever change their tactics and spread out? No, they would show up and be unkillable while everyone else around them couldn't use any skills. I'm not blaming VE for the lag, that's obviously on ZOS, yet your tactics in that situation enhanced the problem and leave you with no room to call anyone out on anything.
Change our tactics and spread out? Are you secretly Frozn posting on Beast's acct? How pray tell does a raid spread out as it goes through the inner breach? Snake out and go in a couple at a time so that heals, barriers, purges don't work optimally? About your comparison to zergs and lag, balling up and pain training is how you kill them and stop the lag. You lead a raid, you do the same thing when you have the people - as does every other organized guild in the game. Pretending like it's irresponsible or something is just facetious.
Nor is his whole meteor discussion with you just a VE thing, I'm not here talking to you as the voice of VE or anything like that, I'm sure Mano and Mojican have plenty of their own to say on the matter.
Ahem...Whats wrong with using Meteor on stairs to get fall dmg kills when your outnumbered 4x over
-MethuselahTwo points, we usually had 20+ ppl in our nightly havoc raids, Annon and rhm used to get pretty pissed when we had less than that, I know cuz I ran with them. At least up until our reroll to blue. I'm not calling havoc out on anything. Second, lag wasn't as bad? I beg to differ, it was 'different' for sure, but just as bad as far as I'm concerned.Before you call Havoc out on the same thing, when they ran groups of similar tactics it was with 8-12 people less on average and during a time where lag wasn't as bad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TdBGbojeFo
You guys act like this is something new or done by one guild exclusively. You know as well as I do it's been going on for at least 7 months. It's been going on so long that im starting to think its an unintended mechanic that will be adopted soon. Much like animation canceling was.
I don't love gap closers. I use them occasionally, but in general I think they're kind of cheap. If you saw me spamming Lotus Fan a few weeks ago, it was because it is so infrequently on a bar that I spammed it thinking it was a different ability--one less controversial to spam. (because we all spam something in this game.)
But I don't see a problem with the events in this video. Obviously mobility is a big part of your game and a big part of Sorc gameplay. You were constantly on the move, so yeah, these melee builds closed that gap before you broke LOS and recovered. Why would they give you a chance to unload a combo on one and maybe get a kill?
Perhaps it can be argued that all gap closers should be subject to the same cost rule as bolt escape and its morphs.
Pretty sure it's something to do with Tom Brady and deflated footballs...I really just want to know how Sypher's thread got hijacked and is now a VE v. Haxus thread.
This sh-- is so old and stale. Everyone chill.
I really just want to know how Sypher's thread got hijacked and is now a VE v. Haxus thread.
This sh-- is so old and stale. Everyone chill.
The problem is not the fact they can spam ambush. The problem is when they do it your character goes into mental breakdown mode, unable to cast, unable to move, unable to turn around.
ZHEG GOES GRUMBLE GRUMBLE GRUMBLE
Jessica Folsom wrote:It's a very grey area.
I watched this video again this morning. In general, the only times Sypher's bar is greyed out is while casting inevitable detonation, stunned or roll dodging -- at least until our view of him is blocked by a tree and we can't see his character to know its state. There are a couple of other times when his bar is greyed out, but only during one of them was ambush used--if ambush is the cause of it, why do we not see it other times when ambush is used?
Throughout multiple stretches, he is able to cast through persistent ambush spam. So if this issue is as bad as some say, I don't think it's represented in this video. Not conclusively, at least. To those unfamiliar with ambush, it is intended to immobilize: http://www.esohead.com/skills/25484-ambush
The recap is not reflective of everything thrown at him because he was low health under a damage shield for an extended period of time. I do not believe damage entirely absorbed by a damage shield is displayed in death recaps. So he may been stunned while obscured by the tree, unable to break free because of low stamina. His addon may have been slow in displaying the break-free message--it happens.
You dont need conclusive video evidence. Try playing the game and moving/using skills while this is happening - good luck.
This has been debunked throughout the thread.there is no evidence ambush is preventing Sypher from casting.
RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »
This has been debunked throughout the thread.there is no evidence ambush is preventing Sypher from casting.
Actually there is, you can see breif delays where he was unable to swap weapons and the only reason he didn't die sooner was because of Mines and that pillar.
it was @Ezareth if i remember correctly that was told by Wrobel on the 1.6 PTS that they added a mini-stun and silence to all gap closers in 1.6 to prevent Sorc's from Bolting out of range after a person cast a gap closer...thats why it roots you in place, even Crit Charge will root you place breifly....i remember in 1.5 i was never rooted or locked in place and avoided gap closers all the time, now your froze and got a brief period you can't do anything, in lag situations its much worse then it was.
PS: Stampede from the Two Handed Line rooted you instead of snaring you before 1.6, where they removed the root from Stampede because it was Overpowered they said, but they had no problem giving the root to Nightblades...Teleport Strike and its morphs were better balanced when they stunned instead of rooted so you got Immunity after the 1st cast instead of this trash we have with the skill now.