lol

MrGrimey

3 people spamming crit Rush would do the same since they can alternate the root. Yes, it's tougher to pull off than ambush spam. But the root needs to be taken away from every gap closer, not just ambush. Also, there would be no reason to spam ambush if they just took away the gap closer root

Grampa_Smurf

ScruffyWhiskers wrote: »

Grampa_Smurf wrote: »

This guy actually deserves a magblade medal LOL. Do you have any idea how hard it is to land that many Concealed Weapons in a row? That is assuming of course that the target wasn't afk or didn't know how to CC break the first stun.

I have that many a couple times ( not often but it does happen )usually off my horse, Goes like this, hit knocked off horse on back second hit while sliding on ground 3rd hit just as I stop sliding on ground ( still on my back trying to break CC ) forth just as you getting to you feet and 5th to lay back down again dead. With the Latency you get from most areas now that is normal.

Poxheart

FENGRUSH wrote: »

This happens everytime I go near haxus

No honor!

They do it to help improve the game. Honest.

maxjapank

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

I would like to remind everyone that he was using shield to help avoid those damage. Imagine someone who doesn't have shields?2.

Nothing wrong with shields. Use them. But uncrittable shields are poor design.

maxjapank

krim wrote: »

Satiar wrote: »

Dark flare spam was ughhhh. I remember when we started using it more in Havoc. I didn't even realize what it did until Teargrants told me it was stacking and I felt so dirty

Thing that drove me nuts about it was that i would charge into a group of enemies fighting and the moment i show up 4 templars instantly start spamming dark flare on me. Its like they specifically have it on their bars just for that. I didnt mind if i show up and i instantly get negated the moment i drop a ulti. Or i get feared over and over to drain my stamina. Those are valid counters right, but to resort to spamming dark flare. That was low and dirty. I feel like they leave these type of exploitable skills in the game to deal with meta builds as a easy way out. Like the current gap closers spam. They wont fix it and if they do they probably changed how the games mechanics work as whole so it doesnt matter anymore. Yeah we will fix dark flare healing debuff stacking in 1.6 but it wont matter because we got rid of that play style anyway.

I didn't know about Dark Flare debuff stacking until after the fact. I wish I had. But I also thought..what else, as a Templar, am I going to use for ranged attacks? The only other option at the time was Vamp Bane or the equivalent, which had a travel time that was slower than I could run.

Xsorus

What I learned from this video

A. Ambush and Lotus need a min range like every other Gap Closer

B. Sorcs are still to tanky for a glass cannon..Like virtually every other class would of died far sooner in that video from that..Except Sorc..

Lucky28

maxjapank wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

I would like to remind everyone that he was using shield to help avoid those damage. Imagine someone who doesn't have shields?2.

Nothing wrong with shields. Use them. But uncrittable shields are poor design.

Nah, crittable shields would be poor design. as things are now, my Hardened ward can only absorb 2 hits (from decent players) if shields where crittable i would actually 'have' to shield stack. Crittable shields are not the answer to that problem.

If you wanted crittable shields, you'd have to give shields Armor and Resistances. and if they did that no sorc would ever die in PvE ever again.

Xsorus wrote: »

What I learned from this video

A. Ambush and Lotus need a min range like every other Gap Closer

B. Sorcs are still to tanky for a glass cannon..Like virtually every other class would of died far sooner in that video from that..Except Sorc..

Not true. any class is hard to kill when they go into complete defense mode like @sypher did in this video.

Alomar

ZOS blows, we all know this by now. What is actually broken in this game's pvp is working as intended in their mind or was in the patch notes 6 months ago and "fixed". There will always be overpowered classes in a pvp game with an out of touch developer who view balancing as a twice a year thing, if that.

Dk's were op, sorcs, and now nightblades, yet nightblades have been on a whole different level for such a long period of time. Nightblades have been overpowered for 6-9 months, even with changes to the Battle Spirit buff intended to make TTK longer it is even easier and more common to be instantly killed or simply stand no chance against nb's. You need to look no further than the fact that so many people rerolled to nightblade in the past year to join the fotm train. I've died, like the rest of this smaller and smaller pvp community, to ambush spamming nb's, instant killing nb's, broken fear spamming nb's, etc., etc. over and over there is no news here.

Just because some streamer who likes to be semi efamous posts a video of dying once doesn't make it anything spectacularly new or shocking. Nothing is going to change, just squeeze whatever ounce of enjoyment left out of this pvp that you can before it's dead completely, and then on to the next mmo.

PainfulFAFA

Dositheus wrote: »

Alucardo wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

At least Ambush doesn´t go through dodge.. Yeah, I´m looking at you Lotus Fan.
Yesterday I encountered a four man nightblade squad, doing nothing else than using ambush/lotus fan, that´s ridiculous

That's ridiculous. What lowlife scumbag nightblade would spam lotus fan, knowing how broken it is (yes, it should not go through dodge)



Nevermind.

If I'm on my Magika NB, and I'm fighting someone doing the dodge roll around while vigor/rally ticking themselves to full hp... you'd better believe I'm going to Lotus fan the f' out of them to finish them off.

They are using stamina to roll dodge which costs more and more stamina each roll while using stamina to heal themselves up.
Do you see where I"m going with this?
You dont have to spam lotus fan on somebody rolling around with <20% stamina when all you should do is CC and finish them off.

Sounds like a l2p issue and resorting to broken stuff to win
scrub logic

Xsorus

Lucky28 wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

I would like to remind everyone that he was using shield to help avoid those damage. Imagine someone who doesn't have shields?2.

Nothing wrong with shields. Use them. But uncrittable shields are poor design.

Nah, crittable shields would be poor design. as things are now, my Hardened ward can only absorb 2 hits (from decent players) if shields where crittable i would actually 'have' to shield stack. Crittable shields are not the answer to that problem.

If you wanted crittable shields, you'd have to give shields Armor and Resistances. and if they did that no sorc would ever die in PvE ever again.

Xsorus wrote: »

What I learned from this video

A. Ambush and Lotus need a min range like every other Gap Closer

B. Sorcs are still to tanky for a glass cannon..Like virtually every other class would of died far sooner in that video from that..Except Sorc..

Not true. any class is hard to kill when they go complete Defense like @sypher did in this video.

Sypher didn't go complete defense in this video...That's just Sorcs being Sorcs.

driosketch

JaJaLuka wrote: »

zyk wrote: »

I don't love gap closers. I use them occasionally, but in general I think they're kind of cheap. If you saw me spamming Lotus Fan a few weeks ago, it was because it is so infrequently on a bar that I spammed it thinking it was a different ability--one less controversial to spam. (because we all spam something in this game.)

But I don't see a problem with the events in this video. Obviously mobility is a big part of your game and a big part of Sorc gameplay. You were constantly on the move, so yeah, these melee builds closed that gap before you broke LOS and recovered. Why would they give you a chance to unload a combo on one and maybe get a kill?

Perhaps it can be argued that all gap closers should be subject to the same cost rule as bolt escape and its morphs.

The problem is that the game forces you to stand there unable to do anything until they hit. If you watch the video you'll notice that with three people spamming it against him, he's literally unable to do anything at all, no moving, no dodge rolling, no skills. It's a glitch, not a valid game play tactic.

I don't know if numbers make a difference for the other gap closers, since I usually get hit in group fights, but you can definitely dodge roll a single toppling charge. So there's that.

You can apparently also continue riding your horse while someone crit charges you, though I wouldn't recommend it.

Lucky28

Xsorus wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

I would like to remind everyone that he was using shield to help avoid those damage. Imagine someone who doesn't have shields?2.

Nothing wrong with shields. Use them. But uncrittable shields are poor design.

Nah, crittable shields would be poor design. as things are now, my Hardened ward can only absorb 2 hits (from decent players) if shields where crittable i would actually 'have' to shield stack. Crittable shields are not the answer to that problem.

If you wanted crittable shields, you'd have to give shields Armor and Resistances. and if they did that no sorc would ever die in PvE ever again.

Xsorus wrote: »

What I learned from this video

A. Ambush and Lotus need a min range like every other Gap Closer

B. Sorcs are still to tanky for a glass cannon..Like virtually every other class would of died far sooner in that video from that..Except Sorc..

Not true. any class is hard to kill when they go complete Defense like @sypher did in this video.

Sypher didn't go complete defense in this video...That's just Sorcs being Sorcs.

What Video did you watch?. He used it looked like a grand total of three offensive abilities most of it was just him streaking around stacking shields. Yes, he was on the defensive.

Xsorus

Lucky28 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

I would like to remind everyone that he was using shield to help avoid those damage. Imagine someone who doesn't have shields?2.

Nothing wrong with shields. Use them. But uncrittable shields are poor design.

Nah, crittable shields would be poor design. as things are now, my Hardened ward can only absorb 2 hits (from decent players) if shields where crittable i would actually 'have' to shield stack. Crittable shields are not the answer to that problem.

If you wanted crittable shields, you'd have to give shields Armor and Resistances. and if they did that no sorc would ever die in PvE ever again.

Xsorus wrote: »

What I learned from this video

A. Ambush and Lotus need a min range like every other Gap Closer

B. Sorcs are still to tanky for a glass cannon..Like virtually every other class would of died far sooner in that video from that..Except Sorc..

Not true. any class is hard to kill when they go complete Defense like @sypher did in this video.

Sypher didn't go complete defense in this video...That's just Sorcs being Sorcs.

What Video did you watch?. He used it looked like a grand total of three offensive abilities most of it was just him streaking around stacking shields. Yes, he was on the defensive.

Again..that's not going complete defense....That's just being a Sorc...When you say actually going complete defense..It means actually upping your defense..Things like Armor/HP ect ect....Sorcs basically just stack the *** out of Magicka and Spellpower and when they start getting hurt spam Hardened Ward..at any second he can turn around and go full glass cannon on someones face.

If he was full defense..He wouldn't be able to do that...

Lucky28

Xsorus wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

I would like to remind everyone that he was using shield to help avoid those damage. Imagine someone who doesn't have shields?2.

Nothing wrong with shields. Use them. But uncrittable shields are poor design.

Nah, crittable shields would be poor design. as things are now, my Hardened ward can only absorb 2 hits (from decent players) if shields where crittable i would actually 'have' to shield stack. Crittable shields are not the answer to that problem.

If you wanted crittable shields, you'd have to give shields Armor and Resistances. and if they did that no sorc would ever die in PvE ever again.

Xsorus wrote: »

What I learned from this video

A. Ambush and Lotus need a min range like every other Gap Closer

B. Sorcs are still to tanky for a glass cannon..Like virtually every other class would of died far sooner in that video from that..Except Sorc..

Not true. any class is hard to kill when they go complete Defense like @sypher did in this video.

Sypher didn't go complete defense in this video...That's just Sorcs being Sorcs.

What Video did you watch?. He used it looked like a grand total of three offensive abilities most of it was just him streaking around stacking shields. Yes, he was on the defensive.

Again..that's not going complete defense....That's just being a Sorc...When you say actually going complete defense..It means actually upping your defense..Things like Armor/HP ect ect....Sorcs basically just stack the *** out of Magicka and Spellpower and when they start getting hurt spam Hardened Ward..at any second he can turn around and go full glass cannon on someones face.

If he was full defense..He wouldn't be able to do that...

No.

I don't really know else to say to that, your definition is completely wrong. when one says: "going on the defensive" what it means is using everything at your disposal to stay alive, doesn't matter what that is, Armor, Healing, Shields etc. Doesn't matter. Going on the defensive means abandoning your Damage output and focusing only on staying alive whatever means necessary.

Defense doesn't just mean armor

ku5h

LOL that was really rediculous, but as some guy above said, it is most reliable tactic to kill that sorc. Imagine if they didnt do that, what would happen:
a) He would streak away, no danger of being killed, just streak, streak, streak, bye bye
b) He would streak away, shields up, nuke 1 guy, streak away, and so on, killing them all
So i ask myself what is worse...

Zavus

You guys even get baited on the forums. If you've pvp'd me at all you'd know I use bats. trolololol
MOAR HEALING SPRINGS

Cinnamon_Spider

Xsorus wrote: »

What I learned from this video

A. Ambush and Lotus need a min range like every other Gap Closer

B. Sorcs are still to tanky for a glass cannon..Like virtually every other class would of died far sooner in that video from that..Except Sorc..

What you were seeing was mainly the result of healing ward, which is still way too strong on any class.

Teargrants

Elong wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Zavus wrote: »

FMonk wrote: »

Hektik_V wrote: »

But can Sypher survive gap closers

Lol please. Haxus nightblades are notorious for abusing this ***. You guys have good enough players that you don't need to abuse things like this and fall damage on stairs, stop doing it.

With 250 days played on my sorc. I can say, whats wrong with using cheap (broken) skills to counter other cheap (broken) skills. I'm looking at you non critable shield stacking. (Or vice versa. Using non critable shield stacking to negate ambush spammers) Whats wrong with using Meteor on stairs to get fall dmg kills when your outnumbered 4x over and we have things like AoE caps that empower the numbers game . Not to mention fall dmg supposed to be fixed months ago. Killing a few in large raids means nothing, with kags set ppl pop right back up and into the fight no rez sickness adding to the AoE cap. With further reduced dmg last patch I don't even call you guys pugs anymore. You're just AoE caps to me.


-Methuselah

There are plenty of times that you guys do this even when you do the outnumbering. Even when we have similar numbers and we're in open field and there's friendly "come fight me" banter, I still see you guys maneuvering to find an incline, stairs, whatever. Even if it's just for lols at that point - repeatedly, and knowingly using an incredibly broken mechanic like that starts to put those players into the same category as the sorc who shall not be named that used to bug out damage mitigation on his shields. We're not talking about dual wield hammers kinda broken, we're talking about oneshotting multiple people with no counter other than to never leave flat ground. The players in haxus are good enough to win without relying on broken oneshot mechanics, even when outnumbered; it's beneath you, and it diminishes all of the skillful play you guys do outside of it.

Zavus wrote: »

I could write a whole essay on this, but I'll go back ingame and meteor fall dmg ppl until enough complain and something is done to fix it. Thought you would know thats how this works by now.

We've been complaining about it forever, and the few things that have been fixed due to complaints (exploiting into outposts, etc.) took many long months for a fix to even worm its way into a patch. You guys are using it either for the lols, or because it's easy. Most players realize when a bug/exploit is so past the point of broken that it shouldn't even be used. I've never had to worry about yellow doing this us. Why are you even in pvp if you're just looking to hit one button and oneshot people without them even being able to do anything about it? It's sad, and you really shouldn't continue trying to defend it - there's no way that this turns out well.

Sorry Zheg, fall damage is something that doesn't get discussed, and certainly isn't a group tactic. You can take your tin foil hat off whenever you're ready.

Because it's not like every single time I walk into an inner breach, I don't know you guys will be balled up standing on the little ledge half way up the stairs about to drop a Meteor shower on us. That's not something that's up for debate, I'm sure any guild that's gone up against you guys in the past few months can confirm.

As I recall, months ago after the 1st time we encountered this tactic that "isn't a group tactic", we were told in no unclear terms that exploiting the Meteor fall dmg was purposeful and we would be seeing it consistently in the future because it was quote, "the only way to beat your Barrier/Steel Tornado spam group." Everything I have seen since has simply continued to confirm this assertion.

Takllin

Zavus wrote: »

You guys even get baited on the forums. If you've pvp'd me at all you'd know I use bats. trolololol
MOAR HEALING SPRINGS

I didn't realize you were the entirety of Haxus.

Elong

Teargrants wrote: »

Elong wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Zavus wrote: »

FMonk wrote: »

Hektik_V wrote: »

But can Sypher survive gap closers

Lol please. Haxus nightblades are notorious for abusing this ***. You guys have good enough players that you don't need to abuse things like this and fall damage on stairs, stop doing it.

With 250 days played on my sorc. I can say, whats wrong with using cheap (broken) skills to counter other cheap (broken) skills. I'm looking at you non critable shield stacking. (Or vice versa. Using non critable shield stacking to negate ambush spammers) Whats wrong with using Meteor on stairs to get fall dmg kills when your outnumbered 4x over and we have things like AoE caps that empower the numbers game . Not to mention fall dmg supposed to be fixed months ago. Killing a few in large raids means nothing, with kags set ppl pop right back up and into the fight no rez sickness adding to the AoE cap. With further reduced dmg last patch I don't even call you guys pugs anymore. You're just AoE caps to me.


-Methuselah

There are plenty of times that you guys do this even when you do the outnumbering. Even when we have similar numbers and we're in open field and there's friendly "come fight me" banter, I still see you guys maneuvering to find an incline, stairs, whatever. Even if it's just for lols at that point - repeatedly, and knowingly using an incredibly broken mechanic like that starts to put those players into the same category as the sorc who shall not be named that used to bug out damage mitigation on his shields. We're not talking about dual wield hammers kinda broken, we're talking about oneshotting multiple people with no counter other than to never leave flat ground. The players in haxus are good enough to win without relying on broken oneshot mechanics, even when outnumbered; it's beneath you, and it diminishes all of the skillful play you guys do outside of it.

Zavus wrote: »

I could write a whole essay on this, but I'll go back ingame and meteor fall dmg ppl until enough complain and something is done to fix it. Thought you would know thats how this works by now.

We've been complaining about it forever, and the few things that have been fixed due to complaints (exploiting into outposts, etc.) took many long months for a fix to even worm its way into a patch. You guys are using it either for the lols, or because it's easy. Most players realize when a bug/exploit is so past the point of broken that it shouldn't even be used. I've never had to worry about yellow doing this us. Why are you even in pvp if you're just looking to hit one button and oneshot people without them even being able to do anything about it? It's sad, and you really shouldn't continue trying to defend it - there's no way that this turns out well.

Sorry Zheg, fall damage is something that doesn't get discussed, and certainly isn't a group tactic. You can take your tin foil hat off whenever you're ready.

Because it's not like every single time I walk into an inner breach, I don't know you guys will be balled up standing on the little ledge half way up the stairs about to drop a Meteor shower on us. That's not something that's up for debate, I'm sure any guild that's gone up against you guys in the past few months can confirm.

As I recall, months ago after the 1st time we encountered this tactic that "isn't a group tactic", we were told in no unclear terms that exploiting the Meteor fall dmg was purposeful and we would be seeing it consistently in the future because it was quote, "the only way to beat your Barrier/Steel Tornado spam group." Everything I have seen since has simply continued to confirm this assertion.

Some of those points are fair enough, but it's not happening on a consistent basis from my time playing. There appears to be some history with this topic though.

Xeniph

Alcast wrote: »

Crit rush, Invasion etc have a minimal range you need to have to your opponent
Ambush does not, which makes it a "idiotproof" gap closer.

Now one might ask WHY does it not have a minimal range needed? Only ZOS knows the answer to this question, actually I am not even sure if they know lul

Teleport Strike, Ambush and Lotus Fan do not have a minimum range because they are specifically designed to combo with Surprise Attack(5m) and Concealed Weapon (5m) to deliver the stun effect. Ambush is the only gap closer that has an immobilize, or rather that is supposed to have. Now all gap closers have that mini hitch because of lazy coding. It's design was intended to give the NB control over melee combat situations, or more specifically positional superiority.

This is exactly why it does not break Cloak either, to facilitate the stun (If the player knows what they are doing)

Concealed Weapon, Ambush and Teleport Strike do NOT stun you, or prevent/interrupt any actions you may be doing, with one exception.
Ambush is capable of receiving the "stealth" attack modifier, allowing it to stun you once per encounter from stealth, not invisibility. Just like other abilities and light/heavy attacks.

Some of you people need to stop spreading false information, learn the differences between morphs and character states before crying foul.

Ambush has a 1 second immobolize Ie..you stop moving for 1 second.
Lotus Fan has an AoE Snare

Surprise Attack and Concealed Weapon both stun from stealth and invisibility.

*Special Note- Immobilize, root and snare have no CC immunity currently in ESO.*

Now to add some perspective I'll list some abilities that benefit more from this non-immunity.

1.Bombard
2. Talons
3. Encase

As for some of you saying this is bad gameplay, that's debatable. If you watch the clip, the fight starts fairly normal. Ambush into a Surprise attack. But as Sypher gets more mobile, so must the NB's. Now I think it's a perfectly valid tactic for one NB to spam Ambush to lock down Sypher while allowing others to do the dps and finish him. I think the only reason both were using it nearly exclusive at one points was because they were 2 random pugs and thus could not coordinate appropriately.

I also dare anyone to deny that in this situation, we would not see Crit Rush or Invasion spammed just as much if not more, since neither has an immobilize, every time he Bolted.

Generally speaking, I believe there are 2 instances where Ambush spam is good form/gameplay.

1. Locking down a particularly pesky runner, so your group/alliance mates can kill them.
2. Locking down Mistformers so your group/alliance mates can kill them.

Basically using Ambush as a utility ability rather than for dps. (think Bombard spamming)

Just my 2 cents.

JaJaLuka

krim wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Zavus wrote: »

FMonk wrote: »

Hektik_V wrote: »

But can Sypher survive gap closers

Lol please. Haxus nightblades are notorious for abusing this ***. You guys have good enough players that you don't need to abuse things like this and fall damage on stairs, stop doing it.

With 250 days played on my sorc. I can say, whats wrong with using cheap (broken) skills to counter other cheap (broken) skills. I'm looking at you non critable shield stacking. (Or vice versa. Using non critable shield stacking to negate ambush spammers) Whats wrong with using Meteor on stairs to get fall dmg kills when your outnumbered 4x over and we have things like AoE caps that empower the numbers game . Not to mention fall dmg supposed to be fixed months ago. Killing a few in large raids means nothing, with kags set ppl pop right back up and into the fight no rez sickness adding to the AoE cap. With further reduced dmg last patch I don't even call you guys pugs anymore. You're just AoE caps to me.


-Methuselah

And this attitude right here is why broken mechanics becomes exploits because terrible gameplay.... And the video we have in this thread. Let's all just exploit till things get fixed boys and girls. Then we will have a really fun game with stellar fights and a vibrant community.

But it takes ZENI forever to acknowledge anything let alone fix it. Of course people are going to abuse it if its in the game. Just like Orbs, dark flare, caltrops etc etc. We are beating a dead horse here because we know ZENI cant patch ***, and we expect everyone to not use them. *** that after you come across some d bag using whatever exploit, you come back and use it yourself. Have fun when and where you can at this point. I stopped playing a month or two before once they said they werent going to doing anything to fix dark flare spam until 1.6 . Then when 1.6 patch notes came out i get a nice surprise on how my NBs play style got nerfed not just to the ground but 6 feet under. I instantly knew why they didnt fix dark flare.

It's because ZoS won't fix it that we should not use them. The exploits hang around for some time in this game even after they are identified, knowing that we as the player base should report them (over and over again ...) until they are fixed and not turn Cyrodiil into trash until they are fixed. I know that there will always be people who exploit everything they can, but the more people doing it, the more trash PvP in this game will become.
If I'm honest the responsibility should be on ZoS to fix it, but we know it doesn't happen in a short time frame. Let's not make a bad situation worse by screwing up everyone's game time, particularly those who don't cheat.

Ishammael

Ishammael wrote: »

krim wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Zavus wrote: »

FMonk wrote: »

Hektik_V wrote: »

But can Sypher survive gap closers

Lol please. Haxus nightblades are notorious for abusing this ***. You guys have good enough players that you don't need to abuse things like this and fall damage on stairs, stop doing it.

With 250 days played on my sorc. I can say, whats wrong with using cheap (broken) skills to counter other cheap (broken) skills. I'm looking at you non critable shield stacking. (Or vice versa. Using non critable shield stacking to negate ambush spammers) Whats wrong with using Meteor on stairs to get fall dmg kills when your outnumbered 4x over and we have things like AoE caps that empower the numbers game . Not to mention fall dmg supposed to be fixed months ago. Killing a few in large raids means nothing, with kags set ppl pop right back up and into the fight no rez sickness adding to the AoE cap. With further reduced dmg last patch I don't even call you guys pugs anymore. You're just AoE caps to me.


-Methuselah

And this attitude right here is why broken mechanics becomes exploits because terrible gameplay.... And the video we have in this thread. Let's all just exploit till things get fixed boys and girls. Then we will have a really fun game with stellar fights and a vibrant community.

But it takes ZENI forever to acknowledge anything let alone fix it. Of course people are going to abuse it if its in the game. Just like Orbs, dark flare, caltrops etc etc. We are beating a dead horse here because we know ZENI cant patch ***, and we expect everyone to not use them. *** that after you come across some d bag using whatever exploit, you come back and use it yourself. Have fun when and where you can at this point. I stopped playing a month or two before once they said they werent going to doing anything to fix dark flare spam until 1.6 . Then when 1.6 patch notes came out i get a nice surprise on how my NBs play style got nerfed not just to the ground but 6 feet under. I instantly knew why they didnt fix dark flare.

Nothing you say here is wrong, to be sure. Just consider what you are here for: a few cheap lols exploiting broken *** or a functioning pvp space where the players can compete and have fun over a long period of time. Yes, the onus is on ZOS to fix ***. But everyone acts like a *** psychopath when they get on the Internet: "lol get rekt boi I shot you with a million damage prox det exploit. Lawl!"

Xeniph wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Crit rush, Invasion etc have a minimal range you need to have to your opponent
Ambush does not, which makes it a "idiotproof" gap closer.

Now one might ask WHY does it not have a minimal range needed? Only ZOS knows the answer to this question, actually I am not even sure if they know lul

Teleport Strike, Ambush and Lotus Fan do not have a minimum range because they are specifically designed to combo with Surprise Attack(5m) and Concealed Weapon (5m) to deliver the stun effect. Ambush is the only gap closer that has an immobilize, or rather that is supposed to have. Now all gap closers have that mini hitch because of lazy coding. It's design was intended to give the NB control over melee combat situations, or more specifically positional superiority.

This is exactly why it does not break Cloak either, to facilitate the stun (If the player knows what they are doing)

Concealed Weapon, Ambush and Teleport Strike do NOT stun you, or prevent/interrupt any actions you may be doing, with one exception.
Ambush is capable of receiving the "stealth" attack modifier, allowing it to stun you once per encounter from stealth, not invisibility. Just like other abilities and light/heavy attacks.

Some of you people need to stop spreading false information, learn the differences between morphs and character states before crying foul.

Ambush has a 1 second immobolize Ie..you stop moving for 1 second.
Lotus Fan has an AoE Snare

Surprise Attack and Concealed Weapon both stun from stealth and invisibility.

*Special Note- Immobilize, root and snare have no CC immunity currently in ESO.*

Now to add some perspective I'll list some abilities that benefit more from this non-immunity.

1.Bombard
2. Talons
3. Encase

As for some of you saying this is bad gameplay, that's debatable. If you watch the clip, the fight starts fairly normal. Ambush into a Surprise attack. But as Sypher gets more mobile, so must the NB's. Now I think it's a perfectly valid tactic for one NB to spam Ambush to lock down Sypher while allowing others to do the dps and finish him. I think the only reason both were using it nearly exclusive at one points was because they were 2 random pugs and thus could not coordinate appropriately.

I also dare anyone to deny that in this situation, we would not see Crit Rush or Invasion spammed just as much if not more, since neither has an immobilize, every time he Bolted.

Generally speaking, I believe there are 2 instances where Ambush spam is good form/gameplay.

1. Locking down a particularly pesky runner, so your group/alliance mates can kill them.
2. Locking down Mistformers so your group/alliance mates can kill them.

Basically using Ambush as a utility ability rather than for dps. (think Bombard spamming)

Just my 2 cents.

The difference between being rooted via talons and having people spam ambush on you is the following: when ambush spammed you can't do anything. Get this through your skull. Your bars become unusable for a split second. Ambush is a particular offender because it has no minimum range and adds an immobilize. It's not balanced, its not fair, and its not fun.

JaJaLuka

Xeniph wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Crit rush, Invasion etc have a minimal range you need to have to your opponent
Ambush does not, which makes it a "idiotproof" gap closer.

Now one might ask WHY does it not have a minimal range needed? Only ZOS knows the answer to this question, actually I am not even sure if they know lul

Teleport Strike, Ambush and Lotus Fan do not have a minimum range because they are specifically designed to combo with Surprise Attack(5m) and Concealed Weapon (5m) to deliver the stun effect. Ambush is the only gap closer that has an immobilize, or rather that is supposed to have. Now all gap closers have that mini hitch because of lazy coding. It's design was intended to give the NB control over melee combat situations, or more specifically positional superiority.

This is exactly why it does not break Cloak either, to facilitate the stun (If the player knows what they are doing)

Concealed Weapon, Ambush and Teleport Strike do NOT stun you, or prevent/interrupt any actions you may be doing, with one exception.
Ambush is capable of receiving the "stealth" attack modifier, allowing it to stun you once per encounter from stealth, not invisibility. Just like other abilities and light/heavy attacks.

Some of you people need to stop spreading false information, learn the differences between morphs and character states before crying foul.

Ambush has a 1 second immobolize Ie..you stop moving for 1 second.
Lotus Fan has an AoE Snare

Surprise Attack and Concealed Weapon both stun from stealth and invisibility.

*Special Note- Immobilize, root and snare have no CC immunity currently in ESO.*

Now to add some perspective I'll list some abilities that benefit more from this non-immunity.

1.Bombard
2. Talons
3. Encase

As for some of you saying this is bad gameplay, that's debatable. If you watch the clip, the fight starts fairly normal. Ambush into a Surprise attack. But as Sypher gets more mobile, so must the NB's. Now I think it's a perfectly valid tactic for one NB to spam Ambush to lock down Sypher while allowing others to do the dps and finish him. I think the only reason both were using it nearly exclusive at one points was because they were 2 random pugs and thus could not coordinate appropriately.

I also dare anyone to deny that in this situation, we would not see Crit Rush or Invasion spammed just as much if not more, since neither has an immobilize, every time he Bolted.

Generally speaking, I believe there are 2 instances where Ambush spam is good form/gameplay.

1. Locking down a particularly pesky runner, so your group/alliance mates can kill them.
2. Locking down Mistformers so your group/alliance mates can kill them.

Basically using Ambush as a utility ability rather than for dps. (think Bombard spamming)

Just my 2 cents.

Locking down a runner?
If you're in a fight and your opponent runs, you've won (unless you're stupid enough to chase, they regen, turn and then kill you).
So in that case, why exploit to make sure they die? Does it matter that they ran half way across the map? Death in this game has almost no consequence and AP gains from killing almost no value. They die and they respawn halfway across the map, they run and they are now halfway across the map. Run or die, it's the same outcome and they lost the fight. There is absolutely no reason to have to resort to using broken mechanics in that case.

Edit: I'm not denying that there are other exploits in this game and I don't really agree with shields stacking like they do, my point is purely on the hitching crap that is attached to ambush.

Gamerscape2007

maxjapank wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

I would like to remind everyone that he was using shield to help avoid those damage. Imagine someone who doesn't have shields?2.

Nothing wrong with shields. Use them. But uncrittable shields are poor design.

@maxjapank I suggest you learn how to read. I simply pointed out that the shield helped out Sypher survive a little bit longer. Without the shield, he would of died quicker.

Xeniph

Ishammael wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

krim wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Zavus wrote: »

FMonk wrote: »

Hektik_V wrote: »

But can Sypher survive gap closers

Lol please. Haxus nightblades are notorious for abusing this ***. You guys have good enough players that you don't need to abuse things like this and fall damage on stairs, stop doing it.

With 250 days played on my sorc. I can say, whats wrong with using cheap (broken) skills to counter other cheap (broken) skills. I'm looking at you non critable shield stacking. (Or vice versa. Using non critable shield stacking to negate ambush spammers) Whats wrong with using Meteor on stairs to get fall dmg kills when your outnumbered 4x over and we have things like AoE caps that empower the numbers game . Not to mention fall dmg supposed to be fixed months ago. Killing a few in large raids means nothing, with kags set ppl pop right back up and into the fight no rez sickness adding to the AoE cap. With further reduced dmg last patch I don't even call you guys pugs anymore. You're just AoE caps to me.


-Methuselah

And this attitude right here is why broken mechanics becomes exploits because terrible gameplay.... And the video we have in this thread. Let's all just exploit till things get fixed boys and girls. Then we will have a really fun game with stellar fights and a vibrant community.

But it takes ZENI forever to acknowledge anything let alone fix it. Of course people are going to abuse it if its in the game. Just like Orbs, dark flare, caltrops etc etc. We are beating a dead horse here because we know ZENI cant patch ***, and we expect everyone to not use them. *** that after you come across some d bag using whatever exploit, you come back and use it yourself. Have fun when and where you can at this point. I stopped playing a month or two before once they said they werent going to doing anything to fix dark flare spam until 1.6 . Then when 1.6 patch notes came out i get a nice surprise on how my NBs play style got nerfed not just to the ground but 6 feet under. I instantly knew why they didnt fix dark flare.

Nothing you say here is wrong, to be sure. Just consider what you are here for: a few cheap lols exploiting broken *** or a functioning pvp space where the players can compete and have fun over a long period of time. Yes, the onus is on ZOS to fix ***. But everyone acts like a *** psychopath when they get on the Internet: "lol get rekt boi I shot you with a million damage prox det exploit. Lawl!"

Xeniph wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Crit rush, Invasion etc have a minimal range you need to have to your opponent
Ambush does not, which makes it a "idiotproof" gap closer.

Now one might ask WHY does it not have a minimal range needed? Only ZOS knows the answer to this question, actually I am not even sure if they know lul

Teleport Strike, Ambush and Lotus Fan do not have a minimum range because they are specifically designed to combo with Surprise Attack(5m) and Concealed Weapon (5m) to deliver the stun effect. Ambush is the only gap closer that has an immobilize, or rather that is supposed to have. Now all gap closers have that mini hitch because of lazy coding. It's design was intended to give the NB control over melee combat situations, or more specifically positional superiority.

This is exactly why it does not break Cloak either, to facilitate the stun (If the player knows what they are doing)

Concealed Weapon, Ambush and Teleport Strike do NOT stun you, or prevent/interrupt any actions you may be doing, with one exception.
Ambush is capable of receiving the "stealth" attack modifier, allowing it to stun you once per encounter from stealth, not invisibility. Just like other abilities and light/heavy attacks.

Some of you people need to stop spreading false information, learn the differences between morphs and character states before crying foul.

Ambush has a 1 second immobolize Ie..you stop moving for 1 second.
Lotus Fan has an AoE Snare

Surprise Attack and Concealed Weapon both stun from stealth and invisibility.

*Special Note- Immobilize, root and snare have no CC immunity currently in ESO.*

Now to add some perspective I'll list some abilities that benefit more from this non-immunity.

1.Bombard
2. Talons
3. Encase

As for some of you saying this is bad gameplay, that's debatable. If you watch the clip, the fight starts fairly normal. Ambush into a Surprise attack. But as Sypher gets more mobile, so must the NB's. Now I think it's a perfectly valid tactic for one NB to spam Ambush to lock down Sypher while allowing others to do the dps and finish him. I think the only reason both were using it nearly exclusive at one points was because they were 2 random pugs and thus could not coordinate appropriately.

I also dare anyone to deny that in this situation, we would not see Crit Rush or Invasion spammed just as much if not more, since neither has an immobilize, every time he Bolted.

Generally speaking, I believe there are 2 instances where Ambush spam is good form/gameplay.

1. Locking down a particularly pesky runner, so your group/alliance mates can kill them.
2. Locking down Mistformers so your group/alliance mates can kill them.

Basically using Ambush as a utility ability rather than for dps. (think Bombard spamming)

Just my 2 cents.

The difference between being rooted via talons and having people spam ambush on you is the following: when ambush spammed you can't do anything. Get this through your skull. Your bars become unusable for a split second. Ambush is a particular offender because it has no minimum range and adds an immobilize. It's not balanced, its not fair, and its not fun.

I'm sorry, but I regularly spam BoL while being ambush spammed and this is false information. Ambush does not "grey" out my bar at all ever unless it's a stealth hit.

Xeniph

JaJaLuka wrote: »

Xeniph wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Crit rush, Invasion etc have a minimal range you need to have to your opponent
Ambush does not, which makes it a "idiotproof" gap closer.

Now one might ask WHY does it not have a minimal range needed? Only ZOS knows the answer to this question, actually I am not even sure if they know lul

Teleport Strike, Ambush and Lotus Fan do not have a minimum range because they are specifically designed to combo with Surprise Attack(5m) and Concealed Weapon (5m) to deliver the stun effect. Ambush is the only gap closer that has an immobilize, or rather that is supposed to have. Now all gap closers have that mini hitch because of lazy coding. It's design was intended to give the NB control over melee combat situations, or more specifically positional superiority.

This is exactly why it does not break Cloak either, to facilitate the stun (If the player knows what they are doing)

Concealed Weapon, Ambush and Teleport Strike do NOT stun you, or prevent/interrupt any actions you may be doing, with one exception.
Ambush is capable of receiving the "stealth" attack modifier, allowing it to stun you once per encounter from stealth, not invisibility. Just like other abilities and light/heavy attacks.

Some of you people need to stop spreading false information, learn the differences between morphs and character states before crying foul.

Ambush has a 1 second immobolize Ie..you stop moving for 1 second.
Lotus Fan has an AoE Snare

Surprise Attack and Concealed Weapon both stun from stealth and invisibility.

*Special Note- Immobilize, root and snare have no CC immunity currently in ESO.*

Now to add some perspective I'll list some abilities that benefit more from this non-immunity.

1.Bombard
2. Talons
3. Encase

As for some of you saying this is bad gameplay, that's debatable. If you watch the clip, the fight starts fairly normal. Ambush into a Surprise attack. But as Sypher gets more mobile, so must the NB's. Now I think it's a perfectly valid tactic for one NB to spam Ambush to lock down Sypher while allowing others to do the dps and finish him. I think the only reason both were using it nearly exclusive at one points was because they were 2 random pugs and thus could not coordinate appropriately.

I also dare anyone to deny that in this situation, we would not see Crit Rush or Invasion spammed just as much if not more, since neither has an immobilize, every time he Bolted.

Generally speaking, I believe there are 2 instances where Ambush spam is good form/gameplay.

1. Locking down a particularly pesky runner, so your group/alliance mates can kill them.
2. Locking down Mistformers so your group/alliance mates can kill them.

Basically using Ambush as a utility ability rather than for dps. (think Bombard spamming)

Just my 2 cents.

Locking down a runner?
If you're in a fight and your opponent runs, you've won (unless you're stupid enough to chase, they regen, turn and then kill you).
So in that case, why exploit to make sure they die? Does it matter that they ran half way across the map? Death in this game has almost no consequence and AP gains from killing almost no value. They die and they respawn halfway across the map, they run and they are now halfway across the map. Run or die, it's the same outcome and they lost the fight. There is absolutely no reason to have to resort to using broken mechanics in that case.

Edit: I'm not denying that there are other exploits in this game and I don't really agree with shields stacking like they do, my point is purely on the hitching crap that is attached to ambush.

Using the ability as intended (ie..to perma root your opponent) is not in any way an exploit. That's like saying using Bombar/Talons/Encase every time somone roll dodges out is exploiting is asinine.

Also note if you are duo ganking, I'll take my 470 AP. It's a drop in the bucket, but it's better than nothing

Oh, and that hitching you get...that happens with all gap closers. That hitch is what they did to gap closers to "fix" them. They did it because previously gap closer would eith make you overshoot your target or they would no longer be there when you arrived. So that's not an Ambush only issue.

Xiphyla

It shows how funny some guild are actually proud of abusing exploits. But lastly the main fault is still Zos since they are incapable of fixing stuffs.

Xsorus

Lucky28 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Lucky28 wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Gamerscape2007 wrote: »

I would like to remind everyone that he was using shield to help avoid those damage. Imagine someone who doesn't have shields?2.

Nothing wrong with shields. Use them. But uncrittable shields are poor design.

Nah, crittable shields would be poor design. as things are now, my Hardened ward can only absorb 2 hits (from decent players) if shields where crittable i would actually 'have' to shield stack. Crittable shields are not the answer to that problem.

If you wanted crittable shields, you'd have to give shields Armor and Resistances. and if they did that no sorc would ever die in PvE ever again.

Xsorus wrote: »

What I learned from this video

A. Ambush and Lotus need a min range like every other Gap Closer

B. Sorcs are still to tanky for a glass cannon..Like virtually every other class would of died far sooner in that video from that..Except Sorc..

Not true. any class is hard to kill when they go complete Defense like @sypher did in this video.

Sypher didn't go complete defense in this video...That's just Sorcs being Sorcs.

What Video did you watch?. He used it looked like a grand total of three offensive abilities most of it was just him streaking around stacking shields. Yes, he was on the defensive.

Again..that's not going complete defense....That's just being a Sorc...When you say actually going complete defense..It means actually upping your defense..Things like Armor/HP ect ect....Sorcs basically just stack the *** out of Magicka and Spellpower and when they start getting hurt spam Hardened Ward..at any second he can turn around and go full glass cannon on someones face.

If he was full defense..He wouldn't be able to do that...

No.

I don't really know else to say to that, your definition is completely wrong. when one says: "going on the defensive" what it means is using everything at your disposal to stay alive, doesn't matter what that is, Armor, Healing, Shields etc. Doesn't matter. Going on the defensive means abandoning your Damage output and focusing only on staying alive whatever means necessary.

Defense doesn't just mean armor

A. You claimed that he only lived that long because he went on the defense and all classes can do that; they most certainly cannot. If you are built for damage like a sorc is in that video you cannot go on the defense like that as a dk;Templar or even nb... Your ass will be dead in a matter of seconds... Now if you build full for defense like for example wearing 5 heavy you'll probably last the same amount... But you best not even pretend all classes can do that just like that sorc can.
B. I never said defense was just armor... I said he's not built for pure defense.. He's built for damage he just gets great defense because he's a sorc and reasons.

Xsorus

Cinnamon_Spider wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

What I learned from this video

A. Ambush and Lotus need a min range like every other Gap Closer

B. Sorcs are still to tanky for a glass cannon..Like virtually every other class would of died far sooner in that video from that..Except Sorc..

What you were seeing was mainly the result of healing ward, which is still way too strong on any class.

No it's not.. It is not a result of healing ward.. And if you think it is I'll challenge you to go make a video of you standing there face tanking 4 nightblades spamming ambush on you with just healing ward