I feel like some people are just whining for the sake of whining at this point.
Right now you get stunned for basically a bit where you can't move or do anything when being hit by Gap Closers.
Going to a snare is a 1000x better then this... and yet..you still have people whining..Which pretty much means they don't want there to be anything at all on the Gap Closer..Which was tried..and simply did not work well at all.
So its a Snare basically....which is better then the current option.
This is a separate issue of course compared to Ambush..which flat out needs a Min range attached to it.
@Wrobel I seriously hope you are joking about this snare.
Rooting/silenced/snared? It's all the same : a spammable cc ability that you can't break free from / purge / dodge.
There is nothing more annoying than losing control over your character, or having non responsive skills/abilities. That's why you have CC immunity in this game, and skills that immunize you from soft cc like rooting/snaring.
The only acceptable fix for this would be to have the charge animation be dynamic and adjust while travelling. Yeah, it's not a lazy fix and it's probably hard to pull off technically.
But that's it, either you start working on this fix so that we have skills that work in a logical manner, or you tell us up front that you are not capable of such a fix, and act accordingly : change all charges so they act like a regular stun say 1.5 seconds and allow for cc breaking, while only providing a gap close on immune targets.
And if you intend to keep a cc on charges, you've got to nerf them somehow. A gap closer's goal should be to gap close, not to deal ridiculous damage (looking at you crit rush). gap close + unavoidable CC + good damage is incredibly strong.
It's not our intention that players get locked in placed when being spammed with charge style abilities, but we also want these abilities to feel responsive and be able to hit their target. We're currently testing a fix where instead of being immobile for .5 seconds you will instead have a strong snare applied for slightly longer.
This fix should ensure that you have time to hit targets with charge abilities, but also gives the defender some opportunity to disengage when 1 or multiple players are using charge attacks against them. This fix will go live with the Thieves Guild update. We'd love to hear feedback both from players using charge abilities and being charged on the PTS.
@Wrobel I seriously hope you are joking about this snare.
Rooting/silenced/snared? It's all the same : a spammable cc ability that you can't break free from / purge / dodge.
There is nothing more annoying than losing control over your character, or having non responsive skills/abilities. That's why you have CC immunity in this game, and skills that immunize you from soft cc like rooting/snaring.
The only acceptable fix for this would be to have the charge animation be dynamic and adjust while travelling. Yeah, it's not a lazy fix and it's probably hard to pull off technically.
But that's it, either you start working on this fix so that we have skills that work in a logical manner, or you tell us up front that you are not capable of such a fix, and act accordingly : change all charges so they act like a regular stun say 1.5 seconds and allow for cc breaking, while only providing a gap close on immune targets.
And if you intend to keep a cc on charges, you've got to nerf them somehow. A gap closer's goal should be to gap close, not to deal ridiculous damage (looking at you crit rush). gap close + unavoidable CC + good damage is incredibly strong.
MisterBigglesworth wrote: »It's not our intention that players get locked in placed when being spammed with charge style abilities, but we also want these abilities to feel responsive and be able to hit their target. We're currently testing a fix where instead of being immobile for .5 seconds you will instead have a strong snare applied for slightly longer.
Would this "strong snare" be the same type as those that can be removed by abilities like Rapid Maneuver? What happens if you try use a gap-closer on someone with snare immunity? Does the attack miss?
A better question is why they should always hit. Other things have chances to miss and can be negated by certain skills.
This is true. i would like my c-frags to always hit, but we don't always get what we want.
@Wrobel I seriously hope you are joking about this snare.
Rooting/silenced/snared? It's all the same : a spammable cc ability that you can't break free from / purge / dodge.
There is nothing more annoying than losing control over your character, or having non responsive skills/abilities. That's why you have CC immunity in this game, and skills that immunize you from soft cc like rooting/snaring.
@Wrobel I seriously hope you are joking about this snare.
Rooting/silenced/snared? It's all the same : a spammable cc ability that you can't break free from / purge / dodge.
There is nothing more annoying than losing control over your character, or having non responsive skills/abilities. That's why you have CC immunity in this game, and skills that immunize you from soft cc like rooting/snaring.
We desperately need mechanics that work, on a reliable basis.
Currently gap closers apply a -100% movement speed debuff for .5 seconds. This snare cannot be avoided or reduced by any abilities, so it locks your character in place. It works this way because we want charges to reliably hit enemies. It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move. This is too strong of a lockdown and we would like to relax it, while still making charge abilities get to the target.
To accomplish this, we'll be reducing the snare to -60% and increase the duration to .75 seconds. This will make it feel more responsive as a person being charged because you can still control your character instead of getting stuck in place. With the change you can move slightly further with 1 person charging you, and much further if multiple enemies are charging you. Note that these values aren’t final and we will be adjusting based on PTS feedback.
With Ambushes current description. It would only require 1 ambush per second to completely lock your opponent from moving.It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move.
Currently gap closers apply a -100% movement speed debuff for .5 seconds. This snare cannot be avoided or reduced by any abilities, so it locks your character in place. It works this way because we want charges to reliably hit enemies. It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move. This is too strong of a lockdown and we would like to relax it, while still making charge abilities get to the target.
To accomplish this, we'll be reducing the snare to -60% and increase the duration to .75 seconds. This will make it feel more responsive as a person being charged because you can still control your character instead of getting stuck in place. With the change you can move slightly further with 1 person charging you, and much further if multiple enemies are charging you. Note that these values aren’t final and we will be adjusting based on PTS feedback.
Currently gap closers apply a -100% movement speed debuff for .5 seconds. This snare cannot be avoided or reduced by any abilities, so it locks your character in place. It works this way because we want charges to reliably hit enemies. It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move. This is too strong of a lockdown and we would like to relax it, while still making charge abilities get to the target.
To accomplish this, we'll be reducing the snare to -60% and increase the duration to .75 seconds. This will make it feel more responsive as a person being charged because you can still control your character instead of getting stuck in place. With the change you can move slightly further with 1 person charging you, and much further if multiple enemies are charging you. Note that these values aren’t final and we will be adjusting based on PTS feedback.
Currently gap closers apply a -100% movement speed debuff for .5 seconds. This snare cannot be avoided or reduced by any abilities, so it locks your character in place. It works this way because we want charges to reliably hit enemies. It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move. This is too strong of a lockdown and we would like to relax it, while still making charge abilities get to the target.
To accomplish this, we'll be reducing the snare to -60% and increase the duration to .75 seconds. This will make it feel more responsive as a person being charged because you can still control your character instead of getting stuck in place. With the change you can move slightly further with 1 person charging you, and much further if multiple enemies are charging you. Note that these values aren’t final and we will be adjusting based on PTS feedback.
GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »@Wrobel
Ambush specifically is said to Immobilize target's for 1 full second. This is different then the half second 100% movement speed debuff.
Is Ambush going to get a different description because of these changes?
Ambush:
Flash through the shadows and ambush enemy for 11 Physical Damage , stunning them for 1.5 seconds.
Also grants you Empower, increasing damage of your next attack by 20%.
If the target is a player, they are immobilized for 1 second instead of being stunned.With Ambushes current description. It would only require 1 ambush per second to completely lock your opponent from moving.It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move.
Currently gap closers apply a -100% movement speed debuff for .5 seconds. This snare cannot be avoided or reduced by any abilities, so it locks your character in place. It works this way because we want charges to reliably hit enemies. It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move. This is too strong of a lockdown and we would like to relax it, while still making charge abilities get to the target.
To accomplish this, we'll be reducing the snare to -60% and increase the duration to .75 seconds. This will make it feel more responsive as a person being charged because you can still control your character instead of getting stuck in place. With the change you can move slightly further with 1 person charging you, and much further if multiple enemies are charging you. Note that these values aren’t final and we will be adjusting based on PTS feedback.
Thanks for the reply Wrobel and I'll be sure to test this out on the PTS and see how it feels.
Few Question, is it possible to make gap closers act as projectiles and follow the target until a connection is made? or will that create too many issues.
Currently, "Dragon Leap" doesn't have that half a second root which causes it to miss against targets who are very mobile (If they walk away from it, it will not damage them, even if they were the one targeted by it. Will that be looked at?
Again, thanks for the response. Any hints as to when the PTS will be available to us?
GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »@Wrobel
Ambush specifically is said to Immobilize target's for 1 full second. This is different then the half second 100% movement speed debuff.
Is Ambush going to get a different description because of these changes?
Ambush:
Flash through the shadows and ambush enemy for 11 Physical Damage , stunning them for 1.5 seconds.
Also grants you Empower, increasing damage of your next attack by 20%.
If the target is a player, they are immobilized for 1 second instead of being stunned.With Ambushes current description. It would only require 1 ambush per second to completely lock your opponent from moving.It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move.
You're confused by the terms being used I think. What everyone is complaining about is what @Wrobel posted, that charges have a 100% snare built into them that is completely unavoidable aside from dodge rolling. That's not to be confused with Ambush's immobilize which should work as any other snare/root in the game where you can again dodge/purge it, or not be affected by it if you have rapid maneuver up. There's two different snares/roots when talking about Ambush.Currently gap closers apply a -100% movement speed debuff for .5 seconds. This snare cannot be avoided or reduced by any abilities, so it locks your character in place. It works this way because we want charges to reliably hit enemies. It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move. This is too strong of a lockdown and we would like to relax it, while still making charge abilities get to the target.
To accomplish this, we'll be reducing the snare to -60% and increase the duration to .75 seconds. This will make it feel more responsive as a person being charged because you can still control your character instead of getting stuck in place. With the change you can move slightly further with 1 person charging you, and much further if multiple enemies are charging you. Note that these values aren’t final and we will be adjusting based on PTS feedback.
Thanks for the reply Wrobel and I'll be sure to test this out on the PTS and see how it feels.
Few Question, is it possible to make gap closers act as projectiles and follow the target until a connection is made? or will that create too many issues.
Currently, "Dragon Leap" doesn't have that half a second root which causes it to miss against targets who are very mobile (If they walk away from it, it will not damage them, even if they were the one targeted by it. Will that be looked at?
Again, thanks for the response. Any hints as to when the PTS will be available to us?
I want to at least see video of a dev test because I want to know what happens if you charge a person with reflect up or if you have eclipse on you. Obviously if it's possible the moves would be unable to be reflected. I would just want to see what if
GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »@Wrobel
Ambush specifically is said to Immobilize target's for 1 full second. This is different then the half second 100% movement speed debuff.
Is Ambush going to get a different description because of these changes?
Ambush:
Flash through the shadows and ambush enemy for 11 Physical Damage , stunning them for 1.5 seconds.
Also grants you Empower, increasing damage of your next attack by 20%.
If the target is a player, they are immobilized for 1 second instead of being stunned.With Ambushes current description. It would only require 1 ambush per second to completely lock your opponent from moving.It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move.
You're confused by the terms being used I think. What everyone is complaining about is what @Wrobel posted, that charges have a 100% snare built into them that is completely unavoidable aside from dodge rolling. That's not to be confused with Ambush's immobilize which should work as any other snare/root in the game where you can again dodge/purge it, or not be affected by it if you have rapid maneuver up. There's two different snares/roots when talking about Ambush.Currently gap closers apply a -100% movement speed debuff for .5 seconds. This snare cannot be avoided or reduced by any abilities, so it locks your character in place. It works this way because we want charges to reliably hit enemies. It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move. This is too strong of a lockdown and we would like to relax it, while still making charge abilities get to the target.
To accomplish this, we'll be reducing the snare to -60% and increase the duration to .75 seconds. This will make it feel more responsive as a person being charged because you can still control your character instead of getting stuck in place. With the change you can move slightly further with 1 person charging you, and much further if multiple enemies are charging you. Note that these values aren’t final and we will be adjusting based on PTS feedback.
Thanks for the reply Wrobel and I'll be sure to test this out on the PTS and see how it feels.
Few Question, is it possible to make gap closers act as projectiles and follow the target until a connection is made? or will that create too many issues.
Currently, "Dragon Leap" doesn't have that half a second root which causes it to miss against targets who are very mobile (If they walk away from it, it will not damage them, even if they were the one targeted by it. Will that be looked at?
Again, thanks for the response. Any hints as to when the PTS will be available to us?
I want to at least see video of a dev test because I want to know what happens if you charge a person with reflect up or if you have eclipse on you. Obviously if it's possible the moves would be unable to be reflected. I would just want to see what if
GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »@Wrobel
Ambush specifically is said to Immobilize target's for 1 full second. This is different then the half second 100% movement speed debuff.
Is Ambush going to get a different description because of these changes?
Ambush:
Flash through the shadows and ambush enemy for 11 Physical Damage , stunning them for 1.5 seconds.
Also grants you Empower, increasing damage of your next attack by 20%.
If the target is a player, they are immobilized for 1 second instead of being stunned.With Ambushes current description. It would only require 1 ambush per second to completely lock your opponent from moving.It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move.
You're confused by the terms being used I think. What everyone is complaining about is what @Wrobel posted, that charges have a 100% snare built into them that is completely unavoidable aside from dodge rolling. That's not to be confused with Ambush's immobilize which should work as any other snare/root in the game where you can again dodge/purge it, or not be affected by it if you have rapid maneuver up. There's two different snares/roots when talking about Ambush.Currently gap closers apply a -100% movement speed debuff for .5 seconds. This snare cannot be avoided or reduced by any abilities, so it locks your character in place. It works this way because we want charges to reliably hit enemies. It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move. This is too strong of a lockdown and we would like to relax it, while still making charge abilities get to the target.
To accomplish this, we'll be reducing the snare to -60% and increase the duration to .75 seconds. This will make it feel more responsive as a person being charged because you can still control your character instead of getting stuck in place. With the change you can move slightly further with 1 person charging you, and much further if multiple enemies are charging you. Note that these values aren’t final and we will be adjusting based on PTS feedback.
Thanks for the reply Wrobel and I'll be sure to test this out on the PTS and see how it feels.
Few Question, is it possible to make gap closers act as projectiles and follow the target until a connection is made? or will that create too many issues.
Currently, "Dragon Leap" doesn't have that half a second root which causes it to miss against targets who are very mobile (If they walk away from it, it will not damage them, even if they were the one targeted by it. Will that be looked at?
Again, thanks for the response. Any hints as to when the PTS will be available to us?
I want to at least see video of a dev test because I want to know what happens if you charge a person with reflect up or if you have eclipse on you. Obviously if it's possible the moves would be unable to be reflected. I would just want to see what if
Actually you can't even dodge lotus fan as it is an AoE magic skill.
GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »@Wrobel
Ambush specifically is said to Immobilize target's for 1 full second. This is different then the half second 100% movement speed debuff.
Is Ambush going to get a different description because of these changes?
Ambush:
Flash through the shadows and ambush enemy for 11 Physical Damage , stunning them for 1.5 seconds.
Also grants you Empower, increasing damage of your next attack by 20%.
If the target is a player, they are immobilized for 1 second instead of being stunned.With Ambushes current description. It would only require 1 ambush per second to completely lock your opponent from moving.It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move.
You're confused by the terms being used I think. What everyone is complaining about is what @Wrobel posted, that charges have a 100% snare built into them that is completely unavoidable aside from dodge rolling. That's not to be confused with Ambush's immobilize which should work as any other snare/root in the game where you can again dodge/purge it, or not be affected by it if you have rapid maneuver up. There's two different snares/roots when talking about Ambush.Currently gap closers apply a -100% movement speed debuff for .5 seconds. This snare cannot be avoided or reduced by any abilities, so it locks your character in place. It works this way because we want charges to reliably hit enemies. It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move. This is too strong of a lockdown and we would like to relax it, while still making charge abilities get to the target.
To accomplish this, we'll be reducing the snare to -60% and increase the duration to .75 seconds. This will make it feel more responsive as a person being charged because you can still control your character instead of getting stuck in place. With the change you can move slightly further with 1 person charging you, and much further if multiple enemies are charging you. Note that these values aren’t final and we will be adjusting based on PTS feedback.
Thanks for the reply Wrobel and I'll be sure to test this out on the PTS and see how it feels.
Few Question, is it possible to make gap closers act as projectiles and follow the target until a connection is made? or will that create too many issues.
Currently, "Dragon Leap" doesn't have that half a second root which causes it to miss against targets who are very mobile (If they walk away from it, it will not damage them, even if they were the one targeted by it. Will that be looked at?
Again, thanks for the response. Any hints as to when the PTS will be available to us?
I want to at least see video of a dev test because I want to know what happens if you charge a person with reflect up or if you have eclipse on you. Obviously if it's possible the moves would be unable to be reflected. I would just want to see what if
Actually you can't even dodge lotus fan as it is an AoE magic skill.
Yeah that's technically working as intended though I don't think it should be that way. Same as Dark Flare going through cloak even if the cast hasn't finished because it's AOE and cloak only stops single target stuff.
Why should a skill basically be a guaranteed hit because it applies a cc before it even lands?It works this way because we want charges to reliably hit enemies.
I hope whoever gets on TG PTS gets this removed, it's already Elder Snares this will probably be even damn worse when/if a purge/purify cooldown is introduced.you will instead have a strong snare applied for slightly longer.
Fixing one problem by adding an almost more annoying problem is not the way to go ZOS team @Worbel
By strong snare I assume you are making it the same as the stranglers on round 3, 80% move speed reduction a better idea would be to put a cooldown on immobilize
I'm sorry but have you guys even thought about this? It makes gap closing spam even worse, a purify cooldown while spamming a gap closer on you with a strong snare is quite possibly even worse than it already is, that offers probably 0 survival.
I personally don't get where you came to conclusion that players will be given the opportunity to disengage when 1 or multiple players are using charge abilities on you with a strong snare which will quite possibly stack with each other. Please just add a cooldown to the immobilize and call it at that, that's the only fix you need to do.
GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »@Wrobel
Ambush specifically is said to Immobilize target's for 1 full second. This is different then the half second 100% movement speed debuff.
Is Ambush going to get a different description because of these changes?
Ambush:
Flash through the shadows and ambush enemy for 11 Physical Damage , stunning them for 1.5 seconds.
Also grants you Empower, increasing damage of your next attack by 20%.
If the target is a player, they are immobilized for 1 second instead of being stunned.With Ambushes current description. It would only require 1 ambush per second to completely lock your opponent from moving.It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move.
You're confused by the terms being used I think. What everyone is complaining about is what @Wrobel posted, that charges have a 100% snare built into them that is completely unavoidable aside from dodge rolling. That's not to be confused with Ambush's immobilize which should work as any other snare/root in the game where you can again dodge/purge it, or not be affected by it if you have rapid maneuver up. There's two different snares/roots when talking about Ambush.Currently gap closers apply a -100% movement speed debuff for .5 seconds. This snare cannot be avoided or reduced by any abilities, so it locks your character in place. It works this way because we want charges to reliably hit enemies. It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move. This is too strong of a lockdown and we would like to relax it, while still making charge abilities get to the target.
To accomplish this, we'll be reducing the snare to -60% and increase the duration to .75 seconds. This will make it feel more responsive as a person being charged because you can still control your character instead of getting stuck in place. With the change you can move slightly further with 1 person charging you, and much further if multiple enemies are charging you. Note that these values aren’t final and we will be adjusting based on PTS feedback.
Thanks for the reply Wrobel and I'll be sure to test this out on the PTS and see how it feels.
Few Question, is it possible to make gap closers act as projectiles and follow the target until a connection is made? or will that create too many issues.
Currently, "Dragon Leap" doesn't have that half a second root which causes it to miss against targets who are very mobile (If they walk away from it, it will not damage them, even if they were the one targeted by it. Will that be looked at?
Again, thanks for the response. Any hints as to when the PTS will be available to us?
I want to at least see video of a dev test because I want to know what happens if you charge a person with reflect up or if you have eclipse on you. Obviously if it's possible the moves would be unable to be reflected. I would just want to see what if
Actually you can't even dodge lotus fan as it is an AoE magic skill.
Yeah that's technically working as intended though I don't think it should be that way. Same as Dark Flare going through cloak even if the cast hasn't finished because it's AOE and cloak only stops single target stuff.
My problem with lotus fan is only the snare effect is an AOE. The Damage effect is single target. Yet you can't dodge it. Same goes with toppling charge. Both need to be dodgeable.
Currently gap closers apply a -100% movement speed debuff for .5 seconds. This snare cannot be avoided or reduced by any abilities, so it locks your character in place. It works this way because we want charges to reliably hit enemies. It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move. This is too strong of a lockdown and we would like to relax it, while still making charge abilities get to the target.
To accomplish this, we'll be reducing the snare to -60% and increase the duration to .75 seconds. This will make it feel more responsive as a person being charged because you can still control your character instead of getting stuck in place. With the change you can move slightly further with 1 person charging you, and much further if multiple enemies are charging you. Note that these values aren’t final and we will be adjusting based on PTS feedback.