lol

_Chaos

tist wrote: »

Ambush should be a gap closer, not a dps ability.

QFT

Tankqull

Hexys wrote: »

Thieve's guild patch is to far ahead, this needs to be fixed right now.

we lived with it for over a year now, i can live with it a few months longer if they actually fix it properly and not that 5sec dev-time-bandait announced here...

Lucky28

Also make it so When a gap closer is used on a sorc. the person who uses the gap closes instantly takes 99999 points of damage from Disintegration. just for a couple day so as the people who where exploiting the *** out of this can get a little taste of their own medicine. but don't tell them the date, oh no no no. make it a surprise.

Yuke

Lorkhan wrote: »

Wrobel wrote: »

Currently gap closers apply a -100% movement speed debuff for .5 seconds. This snare cannot be avoided or reduced by any abilities, so it locks your character in place. It works this way because we want charges to reliably hit enemies. It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move. This is too strong of a lockdown and we would like to relax it, while still making charge abilities get to the target.

To accomplish this, we'll be reducing the snare to -60% and increase the duration to .75 seconds. This will make it feel more responsive as a person being charged because you can still control your character instead of getting stuck in place. With the change you can move slightly further with 1 person charging you, and much further if multiple enemies are charging you. Note that these values aren’t final and we will be adjusting based on PTS feedback.

cant you reduce the duration?

yeah, how about to 0.0000000000 sec so that this game finally starts to make any sense at all.

klink012

Wrobel wrote: »

Currently gap closers apply a -100% movement speed debuff for .5 seconds. This snare cannot be avoided or reduced by any abilities, so it locks your character in place. It works this way because we want charges to reliably hit enemies. It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move. This is too strong of a lockdown and we would like to relax it, while still making charge abilities get to the target.

To accomplish this, we'll be reducing the snare to -60% and increase the duration to .75 seconds. This will make it feel more responsive as a person being charged because you can still control your character instead of getting stuck in place. With the change you can move slightly further with 1 person charging you, and much further if multiple enemies are charging you. Note that these values aren’t final and we will be adjusting based on PTS feedback.

And this is why I have recently quit playing this game. Why would you implement something so ridiculous in the first place? How about code the gap closers to work correctly instead of penalizing the target with a snare / stun (which was NEVER intended or on the tooltip)?? OMG someone is using a gap closer on me?!! My VR16 Character who defeated a God is scared and panics, causing him to freeze in place and have reduced movement speed?? Nah, I cannot even find a roleplay situation for this.

I completely agree with Ethaniel's quote below. Code it like the Teleport strike skill, that follows and hits people getting WB up in the air and off cliffs. Also, no skill should have a .5 sec stun. Take it out all together or make it longer so you can break free and get CC immunity. But first FIX CC IMMUNITY.

Remember what happened with dodge roll and Sorc's blink? Maybe use that method of "fixing skills" and apply the 50% increase in resource cost each use to all skills!! So its not a spam 1 ability game.

Thanks! RIP ESO PVP

Etaniel wrote: »

@Wrobel I seriously hope you are joking about this snare.

Rooting/silenced/snared? It's all the same : a spammable cc ability that you can't break free from / purge / dodge.

There is nothing more annoying than losing control over your character, or having non responsive skills/abilities. That's why you have CC immunity in this game, and skills that immunize you from soft cc like rooting/snaring.

The only acceptable fix for this would be to have the charge animation be dynamic and adjust while travelling. Yeah, it's not a lazy fix and it's probably hard to pull off technically.

But that's it, either you start working on this fix so that we have skills that work in a logical manner, or you tell us up front that you are not capable of such a fix, and act accordingly : change all charges so they act like a regular stun say 1.5 seconds and allow for cc breaking, while only providing a gap close on immune targets.

And if you intend to keep a cc on charges, you've got to nerf them somehow. A gap closer's goal should be to gap close, not to deal ridiculous damage (looking at you crit rush). gap close + unavoidable CC + good damage is incredibly strong.

SoulScream

increasing the snare duration is dumb

reften

gap closers and AoE attacks are just lazy game mechanics. But they work, so people use them...try Chivalry Medieval Warfare if you want something more realistic.

Islyn

That was disgusting. I'd be embarrassed if I were those NBs.

riverdragon72

Wrobel wrote: »

It's not our intention that players get locked in placed when being spammed with charge style abilities, but we also want these abilities to feel responsive and be able to hit their target. We're currently testing a fix where instead of being immobile for .5 seconds you will instead have a strong snare applied for slightly longer.

This fix should ensure that you have time to hit targets with charge abilities, but also gives the defender some opportunity to disengage when 1 or multiple players are using charge attacks against them. This fix will go live with the Thieves Guild update. We'd love to hear feedback both from players using charge abilities and being charged on the PTS.

That is not a "fix", it's another BS mechanic putting the defender under hindrance for a longer period of time now. If a player successfully dodges or blocks an attack wtf should we be penalized for it along with a stam regen and use hit on top of it all.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Wrobel wrote: »
It's not our intention that players get locked in placed when being spammed with charge style abilities, but we also want these abilities to feel responsive and be able to hit their target.

At the expense of the target of said charge ability whose game feels completely unresponsive?

@Wrobel

Why was this "FIX" implemented in the first place? Where were the pages upon pages of complaints in the forums that gap closers weren't always connecting enough? Or that combat didn't feel responsive because gap closers could be dodged or LOS'ed?

Werewolf Pounce doesn't apply that snare. Dragonleap doesn't either. I hit targets most of the time with those abilities without the easymode charge guarantee. When I miss those abilities it doesn't feel unresponsive. It feels MORE responsive since my opponents are actively countering my moves.

The game NEVER felt unresponsive because of this particular issue. Since launch, gap closers were hitting about 80% of the time anyway. If someone managed to dodge your gap closer, well they dodged it. No biggie.

Why is it that some bugs we have endured since beta never get fixed and then CHANGES WE NEVER WANTED OR ASKED FOR are put into the game secretly without even a mention in the patch notes?

STOP FIXING THINGS THAT AINT BROKE.

There are plenty of things that are broken. This gap closer stun mechanic is a huge meta change and it was thrown onto us with no warning or testing.

Also, since gap closers now hard counter streak, you can remove the repeat use penalties on that ability since this amounts to a quadruple nerf and sorcs cant get away from ambush mobs no matter how many times you can cast it.

AOE Caps and Gap Closer Guarantees are "Buffs for Bads"(TM)
We don't want them or need them.

Nifty2g

@Wrobel why not just remove the snare altogether and the put a cooldown on the immobilize? Lets say 5-10 second cooldown, this way gap closers are not going to be abused. A snare is honestly a bad idea and will still cause players to feel like they are being trapped and pinned down if 5 people are throwing a gap closer on them as seen in the OP's video. Just a thought

BuggeX

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Wrobel wrote: »
It's not our intention that players get locked in placed when being spammed with charge style abilities, but we also want these abilities to feel responsive and be able to hit their target.

At the expense of the target of said charge ability whose game feels completely unresponsive?

@Wrobel

Why was this "FIX" implemented in the first place? Where were the pages upon pages of complaints in the forums that gap closers weren't always connecting enough? Or that combat didn't feel responsive because gap closers could be dodged or LOS'ed?

i guess it was a fix for the stuck after gap closer, i didnt use Invasion/shild assault cause of this *** bug.

olsborg

Soulac wrote: »

At least Ambush doesn´t go through dodge.. Yeah, I´m looking at you Lotus Fan.
Yesterday I encountered a four man nightblade squad, doing nothing else than using ambush/lotus fan, that´s ridiculous

I think you can dodge the single target hit from lotus, but the aoe will hit you regardless, correct me if im wrong.

Zaldan

Wrobel wrote: »

Currently gap closers apply a -100% movement speed debuff for .5 seconds. This snare cannot be avoided or reduced by any abilities, so it locks your character in place. It works this way because we want charges to reliably hit enemies. It means if 2 players are casting Ambush on a target every half second, they will not be able to move. This is too strong of a lockdown and we would like to relax it, while still making charge abilities get to the target.

To accomplish this, we'll be reducing the snare to -60% and increase the duration to .75 seconds. This will make it feel more responsive as a person being charged because you can still control your character instead of getting stuck in place. With the change you can move slightly further with 1 person charging you, and much further if multiple enemies are charging you. Note that these values aren’t final and we will be adjusting based on PTS feedback.

I'd love to know which enlightened individual thought this was a good idea in the first place, were they so short sighted to not see people would get locked in place until dead? or did they just not care? as they were looking at fixing charge abilities ending up in the right place and screw the side affects.

sirston

Wrobel wrote: »

It's not our intention that players get locked in placed when being spammed with charge style abilities, but we also want these abilities to feel responsive and be able to hit their target. We're currently testing a fix where instead of being immobile for .5 seconds you will instead have a strong snare applied for slightly longer.

This fix should ensure that you have time to hit targets with charge abilities, but also gives the defender some opportunity to disengage when 1 or multiple players are using charge attacks against them. This fix will go live with the Thieves Guild update. We'd love to hear feedback both from players using charge abilities and being charged on the PTS.

Here is an Idea that you should think of or "borrow" from other games; if a person spams an ability over and over its lose's the amount of dmg by 25% each spam and caps at 95% dmg reduction. So that 6,500 points of damage teleport strike goes to 140 points of damage.

Also not every change to the game has to be launched with a DLC you can do hot patchs with the game like you used to.

Sypher

olsborg wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

At least Ambush doesn´t go through dodge.. Yeah, I´m looking at you Lotus Fan.
Yesterday I encountered a four man nightblade squad, doing nothing else than using ambush/lotus fan, that´s ridiculous

I think you can dodge the single target hit from lotus, but the aoe will hit you regardless, correct me if im wrong.

Wrong. The entire Ability and all its effects are not dodgeable.

PainfulFAFA

Sypher wrote: »

olsborg wrote: »

Soulac wrote: »

At least Ambush doesn´t go through dodge.. Yeah, I´m looking at you Lotus Fan.
Yesterday I encountered a four man nightblade squad, doing nothing else than using ambush/lotus fan, that´s ridiculous

I think you can dodge the single target hit from lotus, but the aoe will hit you regardless, correct me if im wrong.

Wrong. The entire Ability and all its effects are not dodgeable.

Yep, and now every bad NB in Cyrodiil is spamming the *** out of this.

Starshadw

spenc_cathb16_ESO wrote: »

tist wrote: »

Ambush should be a gap closer, not a dps ability.

QFT

In which case, ALL gap closers should do no damage.

Look folks, with few slots available for skills, skill-spamming is inevitable. It just is. I don't particularly like it, but if I have to cram buffs, defense and offense onto two bars (and really, one bar since weapon swap isn't 100% reliable), then I'm probably only going to have one or two direct damage-dealing skills on one bar. What else am I supposed to use aside from the 1-2 damage skills I have? Harsh language?

And if CC immunity worked? The quick stun that comes from a gap closer (which is logical - imagine getting crit rushed or toppling charged in real life. Yeah, you'd be stunned for a split second) wouldn't even be a big deal if people spammed their gap closers because you wouldn't get stunned every frickin time.

While we're at it, how about we have CC immunity that lasts long enough that you are able to get up off the ground after a wrecking blow and still have some immunity left so you're not simply getting perma-knocked down until death.

xylena

remove the root from ambush, remove the armor debuff from SA, there stamblades now balanced

PainfulFAFA

and now we have groups telling their NBs lotus/ambush spam their targets so the group can zerg them smh

Xsorus

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Wrobel wrote: »
It's not our intention that players get locked in placed when being spammed with charge style abilities, but we also want these abilities to feel responsive and be able to hit their target.

At the expense of the target of said charge ability whose game feels completely unresponsive?

@Wrobel

Why was this "FIX" implemented in the first place? Where were the pages upon pages of complaints in the forums that gap closers weren't always connecting enough? Or that combat didn't feel responsive because gap closers could be dodged or LOS'ed?

Werewolf Pounce doesn't apply that snare. Dragonleap doesn't either. I hit targets most of the time with those abilities without the easymode charge guarantee. When I miss those abilities it doesn't feel unresponsive. It feels MORE responsive since my opponents are actively countering my moves.

The game NEVER felt unresponsive because of this particular issue. Since launch, gap closers were hitting about 80% of the time anyway. If someone managed to dodge your gap closer, well they dodged it. No biggie.

Why is it that some bugs we have endured since beta never get fixed and then CHANGES WE NEVER WANTED OR ASKED FOR are put into the game secretly without even a mention in the patch notes?

STOP FIXING THINGS THAT AINT BROKE.

There are plenty of things that are broken. This gap closer stun mechanic is a huge meta change and it was thrown onto us with no warning or testing.

Also, since gap closers now hard counter streak, you can remove the repeat use penalties on that ability since this amounts to a quadruple nerf and sorcs cant get away from ambush mobs no matter how many times you can cast it.

AOE Caps and Gap Closer Guarantees are "Buffs for Bads"(TM)
We don't want them or need them.

Going to call *** on this...We both know Dragonleap doesn't hit targets far away unless they're bloody stationary...

Docmandu

Quoting myself, since my original post was kindly removed by the forum mods:

If they are going to use this cheap band-aid, they should at least give you CC immunity to the unblockable / undodgeable / un-resistable snare!

This bit still holds true...

Xiphyla

xylena wrote: »

remove the root from ambush, remove the armor debuff from SA, there stamblades now balanced

Don't think zos know how to code those stuffs you said.

_Chaos

My DK can't wait for unavoidable, unpurgeable snares! #DKmobilityOP

and while we're at it you might as well #NerfGDB because a 4k heal at 10% health really helps get me out of execute range

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlv6BrrxD_4

Rylana

Took the stamblade out for a spin night before last.

Played it normally for a while, and remembered this thread. Spent about an hour outside of arrius just ambush spamming people

O_o Life has become a one button game, jesus christ. Forget playing normally anymore. 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1

its effective as hell, thats a real problem

Rune_Relic

^^ stunlock always has been /shrugs
Laugh or Cry ?

Ishammael

Rune_Relic wrote: »

^^ stunlock always has been /shrugs
Laugh or Cry ?

Both?

Hydrocodone

Stupid troll is stupid!

Celas_Dranacea

First off as a nb I'm in favor of fixing this. I'll agree we are overpowered atm. go ahead and give ambush the streak treatment + adding a minimum distance required + also changing the snare like u said Wrobel... NERF it to the ground cause I just use it like it's intended - to gap close and empower my next attack. I'll admit I do also use it to chase down a blinky sorc, and will continue to do so.

However I honestly don't see the problem with 3 nbs spamming ambush vs one person, or 3 Templars spamming breath of life against one person and keeping each other up, or 3 sorcs spamming shields and standing in mines so that one opponent can't touch them, or 3 dks doing whatever cheesy crap it is they could do against 1 person. Sure those are more defensive examples for other classes but whatever. cheesy tactics really don't bother me at all.

If I encounter these people doing stupid crap to me, I just lol and move off, or find friends and kill them, because whatever it is they are doing can be countered.

So while I agree that ambush spam is not a good thing, I do not think this is a rearming trap bug level issue. I think the real issue is that people feel nightblades are overpowered. So on that level sure give some reasonable nerfs to some nb abilities.

I just don't think it's correct to act like all the sudden everyone is crippled in pvp because 3 nightblades can stun lock you. Find some nightblades on your side to stun lock their *** asses, or anyone else for that matter.

If we start trying to weed out all the cheesy crap each class can do it's going to be a WOW style spiral towards homogenized boring combat.

Armitas

Combat in this game. Press 1111111 and collect AP or respawn and fiddle with doors for a bit until you figure out which ritual dance it takes to open them.