Well @Prootch told us that zergballs would stack up even more people thus become even more of a problem... wich is ofc a fallacy because stacking up more people to become as strong as they used to be wouldn't actually make the problem worse for anyone
but people like the fabled @Prootch himself who just don't use AoE even when it would be effective. Wich, btw, is complete ***, he is leading a raid on his own and even though I see them spamming less AoE than more effective groups, they are using them.
The funny part starts when you think about his own proposal, wich is just removing AoE completely, wich is not only unrealistic (wich admittedly he wrote himself), but would also either hurt his own group...
- because enemies stack up more people, to make them ahrder to target - or that would be what he'd do himself, and I just hope no one wants zergballs using single target spells effectively who can't be hit by AoE at all... yeah...
PainfulFAFA wrote: »And yet Steel Tornado is left untouched with its ridiculous range and execute capabilities...
no one decides who has the burden of proof in a discussion...Well @Prootch told us that zergballs would stack up even more people thus become even more of a problem... wich is ofc a fallacy because stacking up more people to become as strong as they used to be wouldn't actually make the problem worse for anyone
You really don't know that until tested in field. And as I said I would actually favour a real test on a specific server (not pts, full real conditions), as well as a live test with no tornadoe spam and timers on aoe to avoid aoe spam and therefore lower lag (or why not a combination of both, ie aoe decap + reload timer against aoe spam in pvp). Dunno if it's possible dev wise. But decap aoe in similar games means more aoe balls... gw2 stack balls gameplay ftw.but people like the fabled @Prootch himself who just don't use AoE even when it would be effective. Wich, btw, is complete ***, he is leading a raid on his own and even though I see them spamming less AoE than more effective groups, they are using them.
Who ever said we don't use aoe except your fallacy of an argumentation ?
Of course our group does use aoe, for heals, ultis, controls... We just mostly don't use this vomitive no brain steel tornadoe+deto+pulsar spam gameplay that's about it: we experienced it makes the fights boring, laggy, and low pvp interest.
Of course we - did - also noticed that is makes us less effective in terms of aoe damage stacking than - some - other organized bomsquads (especially in close quarter fights), but that's a fair trade for more fun: our players do dislike lagspamming brainlessly on lead tail and are not so obsessed with all out roxing that they would choose to aoe lagstack voluntarily. So they prefer to play in cells and assist specific targets most of the time.
And... curiously we have very good relationships with most ennemy groups due to this choice and... less lag in our fights.The funny part starts when you think about his own proposal, wich is just removing AoE completely, wich is not only unrealistic (wich admittedly he wrote himself), but would also either hurt his own group...
The funniest part is that my group would actually applaude not fighting lag aoe spamballs every evening -even- if it would also "hurt our group". Now totally suppressing aoe is of course not the point. Making aoe less effective than mono targets for organized groups is the point (and yes it would impact our actual gameplay... but probably for the best). From our pov it would both enhance pvp interest and be less damaging to the casual player base (remember, the majority of the guys financing the game). I don't ask you to share that pov ofc, just explaining.
Lagaoe spamballs are mainly organized groups atm. Certainly not pugs or so called "zergs" (who knows what that is exactly btw) as some here would like to sell. Organized groups are the major aoespam lag factor we do encounter. Each time they launch their aoe spam routine our ping soars. We don't face that with pug trains, and we don't face that with less organized raids, even some multiple ald warbands we are fighting theses days (of course we choose also not to fight in eu pc lagzura in prime time where people enjoy their daily 500+ aoe spamlag dose).
Most of these organized aoe spamballs are so obsessed "not losing" a fight that they easely accept to play with this 500+ ping deto+tornadoe aoe spam every evening provided it enables them to successfully farm ap... even in vomitive lag. So knowing this I doubt they would change gameplay with aoe decap, resulting in a full continuation of this bull.*** aoe spamball gameplay ftw.
aoe spamball is the lowest interest gameplay from our pov.- because enemies stack up more people, to make them ahrder to target - or that would be what he'd do himself, and I just hope no one wants zergballs using single target spells effectively who can't be hit by AoE at all... yeah...
we just hope everyone would like to see less aoe stacks and more mono target fights spread all over the map, instead of aoe spamballs wars to check which organized group will actually stack aoe damages, buffs and heals... better.
I would prefer organized groups to shine with efficient assist (ok it's harder in melee, and that's precisely what it's meant to be in a melee), clever movement tactics, blitzkrieg strats, ambush, ... than to be reknown for being able to efficiently aoespam lagfarm in close quarter all evening long. And I write it well conscious that we actually do farm towers def too when we are outnumbered (using postern def in ressources, funneling ennemies like medieval keeps def used to, just again... avoiding deto+tornadoe brainless spamballs.PainfulFAFA wrote: »And yet Steel Tornado is left untouched with its ridiculous range and execute capabilities...
This has obviously been designed for pve boys, totally ignoring it's *** effect in pvp...
I still wonder if the combat mechanism team ever sets foot in pvp.
DisgracefulMind wrote: »@Wrobel I think it's time you listened to your playerbase on this one. Why don't you remove AoE caps on PTS, and let us go and test it? We will, loads of us will. So where is the harm in that? It's time to swallow your pride and realize that your ideas are NOT working. The state of the PvP in this game is inexcusable, and it is glaringly obvious that what you have implemented now is not working and never will.
There is nothing more for me to say on this topic, because @FENGRUSH and others have already completely covered it.
Listen to your players. For once. This game's PvP is dying. Please start CARING about that.
DisgracefulMind wrote: »@Wrobel I think it's time you listened to your playerbase on this one. Why don't you remove AoE caps on PTS, and let us go and test it? We will, loads of us will. So where is the harm in that? It's time to swallow your pride and realize that your ideas are NOT working. The state of the PvP in this game is inexcusable, and it is glaringly obvious that what you have implemented now is not working and never will.
There is nothing more for me to say on this topic, because @FENGRUSH and others have already completely covered it.
Listen to your players. For once. This game's PvP is dying. Please start CARING about that.
@Wrobel Pretty please. Notice me senpai! Remove the AOE caps
Joy_Division wrote: »DisgracefulMind wrote: »@Wrobel I think it's time you listened to your playerbase on this one. Why don't you remove AoE caps on PTS, and let us go and test it? We will, loads of us will. So where is the harm in that? It's time to swallow your pride and realize that your ideas are NOT working. The state of the PvP in this game is inexcusable, and it is glaringly obvious that what you have implemented now is not working and never will.
There is nothing more for me to say on this topic, because @FENGRUSH and others have already completely covered it.
Listen to your players. For once. This game's PvP is dying. Please start CARING about that.
Not sure Wrobel had anything to do with the original implementation of AoE caps as that was done under a different regime. As merely a caretaker, he should have no problem ditching them.
Something else to consider, I have heard that the PTS does not nearly have the capacity as do the regular servers, so any mass test on them would unfortunately not prove anything. I remember before the 1.6 release the PvP event hosted there was just a crash-fest.
You are, or course, correct. AoE caps needed to just go away - on the real servers - a long, long time ago.
Why don't they just toggle friendly fire on? I would love to see the chaos and turnaround of tactics that would bring...
Why don't they just toggle friendly fire on? I would love to see the chaos and turnaround of tactics that would bring...
Would love that too: played with this on daoc camlann/mordred servers (full open pvp), no multi wb stacks and no train: friendly fire except for members of the group. Pure magic.
What you mean is not friendly fire but simply ffa pvp. People outside of your grp/guild were not friendly. Friendly fire means you DO hit people of your own grp with aoe.
Sorry so late to the party Eric.
My long winded feedback to your post.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/233820/20151201-darlgon-telvanni-on-aoe-caps-and-siege?new=1
Personofsecrets wrote: »Lag, @Wrobel , whatever you can do to reduce lag is mandatory. It doesn't matter if that means removing the AOE cap or making the AOE cap more extensive. Lag is the big issue right now when there are huge groups moving around.
Ara_Valleria wrote: »Day 9 : @Wrobel is still sleeping.
Ara_Valleria wrote: »Day 9 : @Wrobel is still sleeping.