"No, We are not raising the VR cap before we remove them."

Slurg

Enodoc wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

That being said, I worry that eventually people will be saying things like "Why do I have to run content on all my characters to get X-Y-Z (since items are BOP). Why can't I give my armor to my other characters?!?!"

BOP items are bound to account, aren't they? Not character?

All the BOP armor I've picked up was bound to account and can be passed between characters in the bank.

We have been given no reasons to believe this will change but that doesn't stop the fearmongering.

Slurg

Erdmanski wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

I'm sure this was already said, but I didn't feel like reading through 8 pages. So you are only going to give us CP for one of our characters? So all the characters will get dropped to level 50, but someone with only one character will get the same CP boost as someone like myself who spent the time getting multiple characters to VR16? That seems unfair that all the time it took to get additional characters to VR16 is going to end up being completely wasted since all of that progression is wiped away.

Presumably all the CP you have already earned on the multiple characters is not completely wasted because you still have it.

But yeah, it would be nice if they gave people withe multiple veterans a little something extra to acknowledge the effort. Not the full conversion rate, but something. Like they did the first time they converted veteran levels to champion points a year ago, X points per level across all vet characters up to a cap.

Hiero_Glyph

Slurg wrote: »

Erdmanski wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

I'm sure this was already said, but I didn't feel like reading through 8 pages. So you are only going to give us CP for one of our characters? So all the characters will get dropped to level 50, but someone with only one character will get the same CP boost as someone like myself who spent the time getting multiple characters to VR16? That seems unfair that all the time it took to get additional characters to VR16 is going to end up being completely wasted since all of that progression is wiped away.

Presumably all the CP you have already earned on the multiple characters is not completely wasted because you still have it.

But yeah, it would be nice if they gave people withe multiple veterans a little something extra to acknowledge the effort. Not the full conversion rate, but something. Like they did the first time they converted veteran levels to champion points a year ago, X points per level across all vet characters up to a cap.

I could see giving players 1 CP per veteran rank per character. As each veteran rank requires 850k exp there is no difference for having 8 v2 characters or 1 v16 character. At most a player would get 128 CP but that seems fair for losing 16 veteran ranks on all 8 characters.

Mettaricana

Xabien wrote: »

Why do some mmo developers (and players for that matter) feel the need to measure progression through levels of any kind? By the sounds of it, CP will just be used in the same way as VR were to gate content. Not only that, but the power disparity between a newly minted lvl 50 and one at CP cap means that while the game may open up for them come reaching 50, they're still going to be completely uneffective vs someone at CP cap.

Do away with VR and hell, do away with CP too. Let the experience be the reward, exploring new zones, finding new stuff out in the world. And let player skill and experience at lvl 50 be the measure by which we judge progression.

Honestly the cp differences don't make that colossal a difference I slot 80 points into spell shield and it knocks off sbout 500 dmg from a spell that takes half my health bar in all medium. Same goes for mighty and peircing I hit a guy and the dmg diffence on the same enemy is maybe 300 points from wrecking blow not exactly the power of akatosh used in final boss fight they make it out to be.

Waseem

they leveled a veteran rank from 1 to 16, and gained CP in the process, why to give them more CP?

notimetocare

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Dominoid wrote: »

Also
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3thlqh/welcome_to_the_elder_scrolls_online_orsinium_aua/cx69emf

There will also be gear scaling and gear will require you to have X champion points. Better items will require more champion points.

COT Dangit!!!

ZOS is removing something to create a new problem....

Freaking geeez guys SMH

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

Why in the world are you trying to move VR requirements into CP requirements. That makes no sense.
As of today....drop all requirements of existing VR items to level 50.

Set a base because the skills, crafting are all based on a 1-50 scale.
Don't use CP as a requirement. Allow people to gear progress without being limited to also needing a post 50 leveling requirement.

The game does not need two requirements. Pre 50 and a post 50
Allow the game and NPC or encounter difficulty cause the challenge to gear progress.
Allow champion points to offer passive benefits.

Otherwise the big problems ten becomes how to show 4 digits after post 50 on a character and NPC.
So imagine a person hitting level 49, and then at 50 being level 1 on screen. In a week or so they are now level 100+ which isn't really level 100+ or later 300-501....it's confusing because the next alt is then level 5/501?????

Then I'd imagine the CP catchup then boosts a person from what was VR1 to VR16 in an afternoon
Does this not beg the logic....leave well enough alone because you'll end up having CP tiers for Cyrodil and non CP and then having to deal with level 50 crafter making cp591 gear at level 50 but the requirement being Cp vs a level base

I just don't follow the logic and even tho it's still up in the air NO ONE is asking for co to replace VR.
Some want VR to stay but others like me want VR to go

No one wants a new VR system....geez

I am sorry... CP is so stupid easy to earn. Nopt worth complaining about at all >.>

Magdalina

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

This actually sounds pretty sensible(assuming the CP will stay account-wide which seems to be the case).
Basically no one is losing anything but just making it more alt-friendly and less Cadwell's-horrible.
Why are so many people objecting to this and throwing random accusations around?o.O

Rune_Relic

Magdalina wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

This actually sounds pretty sensible(assuming the CP will stay account-wide which seems to be the case).
Basically no one is losing anything but just making it more alt-friendly and less Cadwell's-horrible.
Why are so many people objecting to this and throwing random accusations around?o.O

Makes you wonder doesn't it.
No one forced anyway to level up 8 Alts.
That was entirely voluntary and entirely optional.
So why such people should be advantaged over those who didn't is beyond me.
Especially seeing CP is account based and not character based.

Sharmony

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

Have you considered making the max level a lot higher in CP equivalent, judging by your new system and the increased CP rate with xp pots I can grind 0-160 in a day or less, surely 300 or 360 is a more reasonable figure for the max level? I know you simply gave an estimate but regardless it seems awfully low. Moreover, if you already have the cp you are simply given a max level upon reaching level 50? If so we can grind 1-max in ~7-9 hours... is this really the way you want the content to go...?

Magdalina

Sharmony wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

Moreover, if you already have the cp you are simply given a max level upon reaching level 50? If so we can grind 1-max in ~7-9 hours... is this really the way you want the content to go...?

What's bad about this? Having even 160 CP pretty much means you have already "played the game" and leveled at least 1 character. And most of us(I'd say all but Idk, maybe someone actually enjoys it) don't level alts for the joy of leveling but to try on certain roles and builds in endgame - which is most effectively done at max level. So yeah, quickly leveling alt #4 then being able to actually start playing how I want on it without having to grind 16 more vet levels/160 more CP sounds pretty awesome to me.

Tomg999

I'm confused. So if I have 1 x V16, and maybe a couple of V14s, on conversion I get bonus CP for the highest (the V16), so they can wear their current gear, but since CP is account wide, the others get the CP too, so all of my alts should be able to wear their gear, right? All of them should be the equivalent "level" of what the V16 was. Right?

Or actually, all should be at the level of all of my combined CP, plus the conversion bonus on my V16. Correct?

Sharmony

Magdalina wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

Moreover, if you already have the cp you are simply given a max level upon reaching level 50? If so we can grind 1-max in ~7-9 hours... is this really the way you want the content to go...?

What's bad about this? Having even 160 CP pretty much means you have already "played the game" and leveled at least 1 character. And most of us(I'd say all but Idk, maybe someone actually enjoys it) don't level alts for the joy of leveling but to try on certain roles and builds in endgame - which is most effectively done at max level. So yeah, quickly leveling alt #4 then being able to actually start playing how I want on it without having to grind 16 more vet levels/160 more CP sounds pretty awesome to me.

160 CP is stupidly low, with a completely fresh level 50 you can now get your first char and any subsequent chars from what is now 50-max in 7-9hours (probably less, I've heard of people getting a CP a minute in sewers at more than 160CP) in the first instance and then instantly thereafter, leveling should still take some time and be a reward and encourage you to do the content. Realistically I could now make 3 max level chars in a day... does this sound like any other game you know? to me I can't think of one for the simple reason - you encourage players to skip all your content and remove any reward of achievement in achieving a new max level character. Having had 8 v14/16's in my time so far I loved the fact it took me a while to level and get used to the classes, their play-styles and mechanics... you just won't get that anymore. I agree, leveling can be a chore, but when you're reducing the playtime to such a short duration that's silly in my eyes. Atm it takes around 2 days playtime to get to max, I would suggest the reasonable time to be 24hours and no less or more for a player leveling up a new alt, with those leveling up for the first time with the CP to still be able to do it in 2 days playtime.

Magdalina

Sharmony wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

Moreover, if you already have the cp you are simply given a max level upon reaching level 50? If so we can grind 1-max in ~7-9 hours... is this really the way you want the content to go...?

What's bad about this? Having even 160 CP pretty much means you have already "played the game" and leveled at least 1 character. And most of us(I'd say all but Idk, maybe someone actually enjoys it) don't level alts for the joy of leveling but to try on certain roles and builds in endgame - which is most effectively done at max level. So yeah, quickly leveling alt #4 then being able to actually start playing how I want on it without having to grind 16 more vet levels/160 more CP sounds pretty awesome to me.

160 CP is stupidly low, with a completely fresh level 50 you can now get your first char and any subsequent chars from what is now 50-max in 7-9hours in the first instance and then instantly thereafter, leveling should still take some time and be a reward and encourage you to do the content. Realistically I could now make 3 max level chars in a day... does this sound like any other game you know? to me I can't think of one for the simple reason - you encourage players to skip all your content and remove any reward of achievement in achieving a new max level character. Having had 8 v14/16's in my time so far I loved the fact it took me a while to level and get used to the classes, their play-styles and mechanics... you just won't get that anymore. I agree, leveling can be a chore, but when you're reducing the playtime to such a short duration that's silly in my eyes. Atm it takes around 2 days playtime to get to max, I would suggest the reasonable time to be 24hours and no less or more for a player leveling up a new alt, with those leveling up for the first time with the CP to still be able to do it in 2 days playtime.

I may be missing something in the updated/to be updated CP system but grind 160 CP in 7-9 hours? That doesn't seem very realistic. Now if with the CP changes and whatnot it were realistic it would be rather sad indeed, but I highly doubt that is the case. So essentially first character will still have all that progression and probably even do Cadwell's to gain exp(and see the place) but subsequent ones will not have to do that. I can't say much for other MMOs I never played but to me that idea sounds great.

Points to you if you managed to level 8 characters to v14-16 without throwing your computer out the window, I can't even do that to 3. There's 0 point in replaying Cadwell's for n-th time. Since it's been nerfed it does nothing to "teach you to play your class/role", can spam one skill and still roflstomp everything. It isn't fun because you still remember the story from character #1(if you don't, no one should restrict you from replaying it on your alt, but please don't force everyone into it). It's just a timesink which 98% people already skip on their alts and go grind(which is the whole definition of timesink on its own, just a shorter one). How is this "playing the game" and "achieving" something? I want to feel accomplished with my new characters because of things I can do with them, builds I can try with them, not because I managed to resist throwing laptop out of the window and find 100500 stupid missing guars AGAIN to get 0.00001% xp I need to level, then did 100000 identically "fun" quests/n hours of exceptionally fun grinding to get to where I can actually start playing and enjoying it.

The way I see it, we literally lose nothing, pure gains.

Sharmony

Magdalina wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

Magdalina wrote: »

Sharmony wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

Moreover, if you already have the cp you are simply given a max level upon reaching level 50? If so we can grind 1-max in ~7-9 hours... is this really the way you want the content to go...?

What's bad about this? Having even 160 CP pretty much means you have already "played the game" and leveled at least 1 character. And most of us(I'd say all but Idk, maybe someone actually enjoys it) don't level alts for the joy of leveling but to try on certain roles and builds in endgame - which is most effectively done at max level. So yeah, quickly leveling alt #4 then being able to actually start playing how I want on it without having to grind 16 more vet levels/160 more CP sounds pretty awesome to me.

160 CP is stupidly low, with a completely fresh level 50 you can now get your first char and any subsequent chars from what is now 50-max in 7-9hours in the first instance and then instantly thereafter, leveling should still take some time and be a reward and encourage you to do the content. Realistically I could now make 3 max level chars in a day... does this sound like any other game you know? to me I can't think of one for the simple reason - you encourage players to skip all your content and remove any reward of achievement in achieving a new max level character. Having had 8 v14/16's in my time so far I loved the fact it took me a while to level and get used to the classes, their play-styles and mechanics... you just won't get that anymore. I agree, leveling can be a chore, but when you're reducing the playtime to such a short duration that's silly in my eyes. Atm it takes around 2 days playtime to get to max, I would suggest the reasonable time to be 24hours and no less or more for a player leveling up a new alt, with those leveling up for the first time with the CP to still be able to do it in 2 days playtime.

I may be missing something in the updated/to be updated CP system but grind 160 CP in 7-9 hours? That doesn't seem very realistic. Now if with the CP changes and whatnot it were realistic it would be rather sad indeed, but I highly doubt that is the case. So essentially first character will still have all that progression and probably even do Cadwell's to gain exp(and see the place) but subsequent ones will not have to do that. I can't say much for other MMOs I never played but to me that idea sounds great.

Points to you if you managed to level 8 characters to v14-16 without throwing your computer out the window, I can't even do that to 3. There's 0 point in replaying Cadwell's for n-th time. Since it's been nerfed it does nothing to "teach you to play your class/role", can spam one skill and still roflstomp everything. It isn't fun because you still remember the story from character #1(if you don't, no one should restrict you from replaying it on your alt, but please don't force everyone into it). It's just a timesink which 98% people already skip on their alts and go grind(which is the whole definition of timesink on its own, just a shorter one). How is this "playing the game" and "achieving" something? I want to feel accomplished with my new characters because of things I can do with them, builds I can try with them, not because I managed to resist throwing laptop out of the window and find 100500 stupid missing guars AGAIN to get 0.00001% xp I need to level, then did 100000 identically "fun" quests/n hours of exceptionally fun grinding to get to where I can actually start playing and enjoying it.

The way I see it, we literally lose nothing, pure gains.

I have friends who have run around without xp pots and rings getting cp in mere minutes in sewers / goblin cave... It's a sad truth but 160 isn't hard to reach at all. I can try get a low level mate to give his xp required per cp and give a better approx calculation but given what I have seen and heard it really isn't good. Given that not even 450cp is 400k xp and is still reduced you can imagine how far the rabbit hole goes. You don't have to do cadwells, you can begin leveling in cyro at level 10 although there are a few better places outside Cyro from time to time in the 1-50 stretch of things...

As I was writing this, awesome friend @Islyn is awesome and linked me this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/14l_K_29Hyj4cjuCAcbCdeGBtLAMRjdbNz78zS6kTjZc/edit#gid=0 now you can see how it can very easily be done.

EDIT: Continued... so yeah by doing this if you want to you can grind up your first char to required cp levels within a day and then create as many characters in around 7-9hours by grinding 1-50 out to max... doesn't really seem like a good idea, but hey, I can buy two more char slots and get two max level chars in a day that I won't know how to play properly because all I've done is create and play them for a couple of hours! Not to mention the fact that I probably won't have even hit 50 in any skill tree at this point.

Magdalina

@Sharmoney (to avoid teh big quote #n), but you realize we're talking about new people here? Not the pro grinders who have learnt the best routes by far and gotten rings and endless ambrosia and all the best armor and skills and everything for grinding, but players leveling their first ever character? Now granted, it is possible the new player in question will be hellbent to get max level ASAP, will look up very best grinding strat, get a buddy in game to craft him armor, buy xp scrolls, level the skills he needs to grind in time and, well, go grind as soon as he reaches lvl 50. I still highly doubt it'll be 7-9 hours but if he does that...well, points to him? Probably gonna learn at least something in the process, too. But really, how many people do you expect to do that? Most will just casually level up on their own pace.

What makes you - and so many other people - say that current system teaches players how to play as they level up? It's more of the opposite for me, at least on my alts. I have a v16 DK that is currently shelved because I'm so sick of grinding her I can't even look at her anymore; meanwhile, I don't really know how to play her, all I know is how to spam a few skills to grind successfully. Granted, I could have learnt on the way to v16 but I always felt discouraged to do that because any sort of challenging activity would have to be done not at its full potential and with no chance for max level loot. And this is how most people feel.
I also have a v13 templar whom I know a little bit more about because somewhere at v9 I couldn't take grinding anymore and since then have just been running dungeons on her(which is what I want to do anyway). However, it's been months and she's still only v13 and I actually feel discouraged to play her because while I can heal any dungeon any loot I get will be essentially useless to me.

So in fact, I'd say current system does not teach people how to play, in fact, it encourages them to skip actual playing and challenging content in order to grind to max level. And I don't think, that, say, 48 hours of grinding do anything more to teach a person than 7 hours of grinding. Well, aside from teaching patience

Sharmony

Magdalina wrote: »

@Sharmoney (to avoid teh big quote #n), but you realize we're talking about new people here? Not the pro grinders who have learnt the best routes by far and gotten rings and endless ambrosia and all the best armor and skills and everything for grinding, but players leveling their first ever character? Now granted, it is possible the new player in question will be hellbent to get max level ASAP, will look up very best grinding strat, get a buddy in game to craft him armor, buy xp scrolls, level the skills he needs to grind in time and, well, go grind as soon as he reaches lvl 50. I still highly doubt it'll be 7-9 hours but if he does that...well, points to him? Probably gonna learn at least something in the process, too. But really, how many people do you expect to do that? Most will just casually level up on their own pace.

What makes you - and so many other people - say that current system teaches players how to play as they level up? It's more of the opposite for me, at least on my alts. I have a v16 DK that is currently shelved because I'm so sick of grinding her I can't even look at her anymore; meanwhile, I don't really know how to play her, all I know is how to spam a few skills to grind successfully. Granted, I could have learnt on the way to v16 but I always felt discouraged to do that because any sort of challenging activity would have to be done not at its full potential and with no chance for max level loot. And this is how most people feel.
I also have a v13 templar whom I know a little bit more about because somewhere at v9 I couldn't take grinding anymore and since then have just been running dungeons on her(which is what I want to do anyway). However, it's been months and she's still only v13 and I actually feel discouraged to play her because while I can heal any dungeon any loot I get will be essentially useless to me.

So in fact, I'd say current system does not teach people how to play, in fact, it encourages them to skip actual playing and challenging content in order to grind to max level. And I don't think, that, say, 48 hours of grinding do anything more to teach a person than 7 hours of grinding. Well, aside from teaching patience

We're talking about both new and old? Old players can get a new max level character by doing 1-50... which is around 7-9 hours of grinding... I mean, at least make it a days play time, it's like offering a free power-leveling service to any customer! Sure I get the first player thing and I agree, but the time to level to max will once again be ridiculously reduced (I speak of max after the road to 50, where this system really effects new players), have you seen those xp rates on the cp that I linked? Regardless of boons to xp leveling it's still going to be stupidly quick for a new player even through questing. Casual leveling will be very quick, but my focus and particular points I wanted to highlight on older players, getting a new max level in 7-9 hours is just beyond ludicrous...

The current system gives the player a lengthy time to level all their skills, experiment with the classes playstyle, the interactions of enemies and players against them, finding and exploring the full game etc... The current system is lengthy, and too lengthy at that as many agree, but having it as short to be completed several times within a single day of hardcore grinding for older players... well, as I said before, name me another game that gives players a free character boost to max in this amount of time. You mention that I and many other people have this opinion, maybe because it's a shared opinion that changes like this as viewed by long standing players who know the game well, can see that old players who choose to grind will not even have enough time to level such simple things as their class skills to max before hitting the max level; yet alone learn how to play the class? Learning and exploring how you want to play your class should be largely part of leveling, not part of end game where interactions within group, dps rotations and reaction times should be the focus. If you felt like this about your dk why did you grind the character? I grind because I want them to be max level, and I learn to play the class as I grind, challenging myself within the leveling process so that when I hit max I can pretty much go straight into HM SO (this is what I did on my Templar, leveled and in a few hours had completed SO HM as the solo healer in the group). Sure an individual and extreme example but it emphasis' my point. If my leveling process was a mere couple of hours from 1-50 I definitely would not have the skills to even do this yet alone the knowledge of the class. As for your opinion on loot and reward, this is common amongst players who already have max level characters and lesser so amongst players who do not yet. I get it, but usually at this point I would just solider the last few levels. This brings me back full circle to say: the leveling process is too long, but being able to achieve max on multiple characters in a very long day is too short.

As for your final point the choice is up to you as a player, I can skip content and still learn my class via grinding and this should be an option to all provided it still takes a reasonable amount of time [ I suggested 1 day to grind a new character for an old player and 2 days for a new one (as they must grind CP too)]. I know many don't grind, and this is completely cool with me, they learn whilst doing their quests because they don't like routes and circles! I personally find that if in 24hours of grinding if you don't feel like you have a good idea of the class and what it's about there's something you've not done. Like leveling up an array of skills as you grind, grinding in sewers with it's sometimes PvP input, grinding with a friend and discussing how they're playing their class and visa versa and exchanging ideas, maybe they already play your class at max level and can help? All in all, the point of the matter is regardless of if you learn or not, 7-9hours is too short for anyone to grind a new character to max, and this is all I wished to highlight.

Magdalina

I grinded my DK because I wanted her to be max level so I don't want to throw my laptop out of the window next time I get Restoration Staff of Thorn on her(2 v8 Resto staves of Thorn made me sad beyond words). Also so I can experiment with builds and stuff and all at max level where I'll be at full potential as opposed to "hmm so that's decent now but who knows what'll happen in 10 vet levels...", not to mention certain sets only drop at certain levels(this seems less of an issue with all the scaling in Wrothgar but it wasn't so when I was leveling my DK). When I get over "god I can't see her anymore"(and get enough mats) I'll learn to DK on her, I'm sure it'll be fun
I get it though, you just seem to have a different attitude towards leveling than I do, that's fair enough and I think we can agree to disagree there.
I'm still not entirely convinced 7-9 hours is an accurate estimate and I cannot compare to other MMOs since this is my first. However I'm so fed up with vet leveling by now I guess I just can't view short time to level as a bad thing lol. Not like there's anything stopping you from further leveling skills and learning the class once you reach level 50, right?

NightRibon23444

They are not going to get this right the first time. They will mess this up and ruin the game like they keep doing. This is ridiculous to change the VR. If it's not broke don't fix it or KISS. (KISS=Keep It Simple stupid) ZOS, for once do something right and leave it alone!!

RazielSR

I like a lot this new change. Its the best they can do to keep the game alive(seems now its working quite well again). You have to accept they are not gonna change that much. The mechanics of the game are what they are. Yes,its more or less like renaming vr16 to cp160 but at least you will be level 50 and you will be able to put cp cause they are shared.

Dont you people understand that they are gonna lose tons of players if they keep the vr thing? In fact,when you explain to freewekend players the vr system...they say they wont return. Level to 50 and then you have the cp from your other chars and cp cap by dlc and gear for cp is the best possible solution at the moment. Yes there would be better ones but not possible like the game is designed.

Sharmony

Magdalina wrote: »

I grinded my DK because I wanted her to be max level so I don't want to throw my laptop out of the window next time I get Restoration Staff of Thorn on her(2 v8 Resto staves of Thorn made me sad beyond words). Also so I can experiment with builds and stuff and all at max level where I'll be at full potential as opposed to "hmm so that's decent now but who knows what'll happen in 10 vet levels...", not to mention certain sets only drop at certain levels(this seems less of an issue with all the scaling in Wrothgar but it wasn't so when I was leveling my DK). When I get over "god I can't see her anymore"(and get enough mats) I'll learn to DK on her, I'm sure it'll be fun
I get it though, you just seem to have a different attitude towards leveling than I do, that's fair enough and I think we can agree to disagree there.
I'm still not entirely convinced 7-9 hours is an accurate estimate and I cannot compare to other MMOs since this is my first. However I'm so fed up with vet leveling by now I guess I just can't view short time to level as a bad thing lol. Not like there's anything stopping you from further leveling skills and learning the class once you reach level 50, right?

Well when they finally release the bonus character slots I will be doing a video on dc power-leveling 1-50, my fastest ever time was 5hours and 45minutes or so, I only estimate higher as this was the time of wayrest sewers grinding when grinding 1-50 was at it's easiest and most profitable.

LearnThis

@Sharmony While avoiding the debate here, because I have my opinion just as each other would, I want to read about this magical leveling place that no one knows about. I have been able to, with xp potions, get three levels an hour, and I have been psyched for it. Leveling has never been easier. What place do you know of that one could level from 1-50 in 7-9 hours?

Sharmony

LearnThis wrote: »

@Sharmony While avoiding the debate here, because I have my opinion just as each other would, I want to read about this magical leveling place that no one knows about. I have been able to, with xp potions, get three levels an hour, and I have been psyched for it. Leveling has never been easier. What place do you know of that one could level from 1-50 in 7-9 hours?

Hey there,

I haven't leveled in a little while as I have nearly all max characters and I play DC so the experience may differ for you. But, this being said now that Wayrest Sewers is fixed I still follow this guide I posted on my guild websites forums with the locations. I often level with another person with xp potions and occasionally use Rings of Mara, prefering to level when the spot is quietest. Often my grinding partner and I receive 1 level every 10 minutes at a maximum, often less. Hope this helps and good luck leveling.

P.S: When they give us the option to have more character slots I will be producing leveling help content on my youtube channel, currently it's only focused around high end PvE and fun stuff.

LearnThis

@Sharmony I appreciate your response and as you said, the experience will differ for me since I am A.D. Thank you though for responding. Even so, I have just never had those numbers nor heard of them. It is truly impressive that you can level so quickly. Thank you for sharing your guide.

sagent64

wow so you guys planning to increase the max level then "when the admin said the best gear .. its also concern me" ... well good luck eso watch your game dies just try to increase max level again ..

we just spent our 1m gold making gold the 7/7 heavy armor we have no more gold for another gear ... just dmn try to increase the max level i swear your game gonna die .. soon there will be 2 or 1 pvp server left

Dubhliam

sagent64 wrote: »

wow so you guys planning to increase the max level then "when the admin said the best gear .. its also concern me" ... well good luck eso watch your game dies just try to increase max level again ..

we just spent our 1m gold making gold the 7/7 heavy armor we have no more gold for another gear ... just dmn try to increase the max level i swear your game gonna die .. soon there will be 2 or 1 pvp server left

1. Capital letters, punctuation, grammar.
2. Farming (resource nodes) becomes viable after each update because of new gear that needs upgrading. If you wore the same gear for months on end, where would the progress be?

Nadijeh

I'm really excited about the changes because I really don't want to level my alts through veteran ranks, I've never enjoyed the veteran system. That being said, I wonder if this change will lead to any changes in the post-50 experience where we play through the other factions? As it is right now, they are veteran level content, and unfortunately they also feel very desolate and lonely. If we remove veteran levels, would it be possible to change that content to scale in difficulty for level instead, and share those regions with everyone in the under-veteran levels to fix the sparseness issue?

DonDruid

Been a subscriber from start. Have 499 CP. On ESO Live you always say you guys read the forum post. Hope you read this one. I really like the game and that is why i subscribe. There is not much that would make me quit. But if you remove any of the CP i have farmed i will quit. I would have no problem with a lower cap then the one we have today. Make it 10 if you like! Just dont remove the CP i have grinded. Not saying you are planning too do this but wanna make my voice heard when i get a bit worried. I have spent hours and hours and hours just grinding for my CP. Removing them would simply not be an option.

Kind regards!

Enodoc

@DonDruid They're not removing any CPs.

Lysette

That new alts will be suddenly as powerful as the main character at level 50, because CP will be account-wide is one thing, but it makes no sense, that an alt of a champion has to grind through level 1-50 nevertheless. What is the point of forcing alts to go through these 50 levels, which they might have done a couple of times already - it is forcing replay unnecessarily.

This whole leveling system will not solve the problem: PvPer will still rush to the top CP level as soon as possible. This is an endless race and a sisyphus theme, regardless how hard they try, it will not stop anytime soon, they will have to craft and recraft their gear endlessly and just for a short amount of time be on top and then the grind starts again. Where is the fun in that, ZOS?- Seriously, this will make more people loose interest than you expect - because it is unsatisfying sisyphus work.

A better solution would be to have normal levels like from 1-150 - every 50 open up a new faction territory to be discovered. When 150 is reached, there is no further progression in attribute points, but there can still be more skill points through exploration - i.e. finding new skyshards in new DLC content. But otherwise there is an end to endless grind and leveling. People at the level cap can craft their armor and weapon sets, without to think, that this will be just temporary gear.

They have achieved all what is to achieve in PvE - beside possibly a few more shards to be found in new content, but otherwise they are were they wanted to be - in the endgame - now they can concentrate on that without having to worry about even more grind. If this seems boring to some, then the endgame is something, what might not be as desirable as PvPer wants us to believe. And if that would be the case, why rushing then through content to reach it in the first place.

This endless leveling has to stop - seriously - it will just frustrate people to the point where they will just loose interest. No one likes sisyphus work, and what you ZOS are designing now sounds a lot like sisyphus work.

mrpaxman

its already out of hand. everyone is now saying that its pointless for me to level my characters past level 50. through 2 guilds. and now on teamspeak in my main guild. me and many others have been told this. i am V12 with 201 cp points. and i also know a large number of people that are not planning to do cadwells silver or gold from now on. 1 of these people linked this forum post as proof to what he says. hence the game can be made roughly 1/3rd the size of what it currently is. to know that i am already max level in the future is quite dissapointing. the feeling of accomplishment making it to max level has come and gone without me even knowing it until now. i am going to continue to v16 before i miss the opportunity. while most wont join me anymore in groups coz they are sitting in grinding spots all the time now wanting me to join them while they farm for cp points. even though i have many issues that i listed. im perfectly fine with cp being the replacement to veteran ranks. but not in the way i see it going. my vote is that V16 gear is not able to be worn as early as level 50 1x V16 character and 7x level 50 characters should not be max level for an entire account. thats making this game waaaay smaller than it currently is. i always want more to a game, not less. who doesnt