"No, We are not raising the VR cap before we remove them."

myrrrorb14_ESO

vamp_emily wrote: »

I am guessing i wasted all this time becoming a master crafter?

I wish people would just quit crying about this game and just play it. You don't have to be top level, or be the best player to have fun.

[ Shakes my head in disappointment ]

You should be good crafting. Sounds like gear levels will still exist with cp thresholds instead of vet levels.

Saltypretzels

Plan sounds good to me, ZoS.

I am a little worried about gear getting outdated too quickly though, and I still hope you can give the whole slew of outdated weapon/equipment sets out there the ability to drop at the highest level available.

Hiero_Glyph

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Geemarc wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

I would however like to see the 1-50 leveling slowed a bit. I've heard of people being able to level from 1-50 in 48 hours. Do NOT go from one extreme to the other: From having a game that it takes more time than almost any other to get to Max Level, to the shortest time of any AAA MMO. Any character progression should be meaningful and because Champion Points are account bound.

And to that point, players have been allowed to use Champion Points on new characters to allow them to power through content. This sped things up and made it bearable for such a long ride to level cap. This should be removed. Champion Points should only be spendable on Level 50 Characters.

This will ensure challenge and enjoyment in leveling alts and when the character hits 50 they then can be just as powerful as someone's original character. This also takes care of the use of Champion Points in under NonVet Cyrodiil campaigns.

Thanks for following through with what has been promised for a long time.

You can level from 1-50 in 8 hours, quicker if you have a geared friend kill stuff with you in IC.

They might as well just give everyone max level alts when you hit 50 with this new system.

This needs to be addressed. I'm not saying make it a time sink. I'm saying it should be significant and meaningful.

Only it shouldn't be; Plenty of other content and growth available after 50, and honestly every MMO should learn you want to make Alts easier to make..More alts players can make the longer they play your game.

Not with 1 to 50 being 8 to 16 hours. Might as well start every character at 50.

This type of statement is wrong more than it's correct. Yes, a power grinder will max a character in a day. No, most players will not level their character to max in a day. The majority of all players will not use power leveling techniques and still play through the main storyline. The reason for this is simple as being power leveled requires a partner to do all of the work and most players do not have a person willing to spend all day grinding them up. Besides, there are still plenty of things left to do once you hit level 50. You make it sound like the previous grind to level cap was all that ESO has to offer and removing that grind will be bad for the longevity of ESO.

Scyantific

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

Ok so let me get this straight. All you are literally doing is just taking Veteran Ranks, scratching out the word Veteran, and writing Champion on top?

If the plan is also to lock gear behind Champion Rank then it is literally no different from the current Veteran Rank system in place FFS.

It is the same. bloody. thing.

The only difference is that the numbers are just going to be bigger on your character sheet and will probably take longer to hit cap. In fact I think this sounds much worse than the original veteran rank system where each VR took progressively longer and longer to get.

Just remove the Champion System already since it has been the source of too many problems since its implementation (because you guys basically messed up the implementation and allowed people to get 1000+ CPs BEFORE you went back and added a cap), keep Veteran Ranks (and increase the cap as needed, BUT NOT THE MATERIAL REQUIREMENTS FFS), bring back softcaps to stats, and remove AoE caps, and presto, you've basically solved every problem you've had since 1.6 went live.

kupacmac

Scyantific wrote: »

Ok so let me get this straight. All you are literally doing is just taking Veteran Ranks, scratching out the word Veteran, and writing Champion on top?

If the plan is also to lock gear behind Champion Rank then it is literally no different from the current Veteran Rank system in place FFS.

It is the same. bloody. thing.

The only difference is that the numbers are just going to be bigger on your character sheet and will probably take longer to hit cap. In fact I think this sounds much worse than the original veteran rank system where each VR took progressively longer and longer to get.

Just remove the Champion System already since it has been the source of too many problems since its implementation (because you guys basically messed up the implementation and allowed people to get 1000+ CPs BEFORE you went back and added a cap), keep Veteran Ranks (and increase the cap as needed, BUT NOT THE MATERIAL REQUIREMENTS FFS), bring back softcaps to stats, and remove AoE caps, and presto, you've basically solved every problem you've had since 1.6 went live.

It's only the same for people who don't have VR characters. For people who do, it is a HUGH improvement.

CtrlAltDlt

I'm sorry @ZOS_RichLambert but I do not like the system proposed on page one.. i will just create more problems and bugs. Why the hell do people want vet ranks removed anyways?

Xendyn

JD2013 wrote: »

Good job getting rid of them Vet levels guys!

I knew this is what would happen. I even said as much. There's always going to be a levelling system in an MMO. If progress just stopped at 50, what would be the point of it? What would be the point of new content if you can just power through it?

So we've now gone from attaining vet levels for top gear (easy to get a vet level) to needing CP's for top gear etc. I bet you'll miss them Vet Levels pretty soon!

From what I'm seeing (and this is not the finalized version Rich has put out here)
I won't
Not one little bit.

To never have to grind another alt thru Silver and Gold will make me one happy camper.

The only thing I'm wondering right now is if the current vet zones will still be playable but in a more open fashion so I can skip around and do the parts I enjoy instead of being forced to slog thru the whole thing and how they will handle the skill and attribute points.

kupacmac

juan0316 wrote: »

I'm sorry @ZOS_RichLambert but I do not like the system proposed on page one.. i will just create more problems and bugs. Why the hell do people want vet ranks removed anyways?

Because once you've done vet ranks once, having to do them again on another character is painful (and unnecessary). The new system solves that glaring issue.

vamp_emily

juan0316 wrote: »

I'm sorry @ZOS_RichLambert but I do not like the system proposed on page one.. i will just create more problems and bugs. Why the hell do people want vet ranks removed anyways?

[ bites my tongue in the fear of getting banhammered ]

I always wonder the same thing. Apparently they just want to do.. nothing. gawd forbid they have to grind 2 levels every 3 months.

Elijah_Crow

vamp_emily wrote: »

juan0316 wrote: »

I'm sorry @ZOS_RichLambert but I do not like the system proposed on page one.. i will just create more problems and bugs. Why the hell do people want vet ranks removed anyways?

[ bites my tongue in the fear of getting banhammered ]

I always wonder the same thing. Apparently they just want to do.. nothing. gawd forbid they have to grind 2 levels every 3 months.

I know about 8 gamers off the top of my head that will return to to the game when this happens (just from my gaming group). This was the biggest request of players in June of 2014 and the reason many left. It's finally happening and there will be a huge influx of returning players because of it.

Darkstorne

kupacmac wrote: »

juan0316 wrote: »

I'm sorry @ZOS_RichLambert but I do not like the system proposed on page one.. i will just create more problems and bugs. Why the hell do people want vet ranks removed anyways?

Because once you've done vet ranks once, having to do them again on another character is painful (and unnecessary). The new system solves that glaring issue.

This. It also means the new "Vet Rank" system actually benefits alts since CP is account wide. The problem was never about the extra levels, it was about the restrictions and grinding requirements they imposed, particularly to alts. Having to go through all three faction questlines on every character you created was just madness.

Tie this new system in to DLC locations that are playable at any level, and they've got a much more open and enjoyable levelling system.

Also @ZOS_RichLambert thanks for the transparency. It's really appreciated

Shadesofkin

I am completely down with everything except gear being tied to your Champion Rank, but I will happily test it out on the PTS first before I call foul.

vamp_emily

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

juan0316 wrote: »

I'm sorry @ZOS_RichLambert but I do not like the system proposed on page one.. i will just create more problems and bugs. Why the hell do people want vet ranks removed anyways?

[ bites my tongue in the fear of getting banhammered ]

I always wonder the same thing. Apparently they just want to do.. nothing. gawd forbid they have to grind 2 levels every 3 months.

I know about 8 gamers off the top of my head that will return to to the game when this happens (just from my gaming group). This was the biggest request of players in June of 2014 and the reason many left. It's finally happening and there will be a huge influx of returning players because of it.

I welcome back your 8 gaming friends, that left for such a silly reason. I hope they enjoy their stay until they find something else they don't like and end up leaving again. ZOS please give these 8 gamers some kind of buff, we don't want them to spend to much time grinding to catch up.

Leggi

newtinmpls wrote: »

So those peeps with multiple low-vet-level characters are going to get screwed

So do players with a lot of high-vet toons.
I got 5.

Elijah_Crow

vamp_emily wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

vamp_emily wrote: »

juan0316 wrote: »

I'm sorry @ZOS_RichLambert but I do not like the system proposed on page one.. i will just create more problems and bugs. Why the hell do people want vet ranks removed anyways?

[ bites my tongue in the fear of getting banhammered ]

I always wonder the same thing. Apparently they just want to do.. nothing. gawd forbid they have to grind 2 levels every 3 months.

I know about 8 gamers off the top of my head that will return to to the game when this happens (just from my gaming group). This was the biggest request of players in June of 2014 and the reason many left. It's finally happening and there will be a huge influx of returning players because of it.

I welcome back your 8 gaming friends, that left for such a silly reason. I hope they enjoy their stay until they find something else they don't like and end up leaving again. ZOS please give these 8 gamers some kind of buff, we don't want them to spend to much time grinding to catch up.

You are trying (weakly) to make that into a joke but more players is good for the game. This game (with VR Ranks) has the longest leveling curve of any modern MMO and there are a lot of gamers who feel the vet ranks were an unnecessary grind.

When I read forums and comments on gaming sites like Massively and MMORPG.com the one constant is the comments on veteran ranks and people waiting for their removal to return.

Joke all you want peanut, but this is good for the game.

PS. Why even bother posting as you contributed nothing to the conversation.

Scyantific

kupacmac wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

Ok so let me get this straight. All you are literally doing is just taking Veteran Ranks, scratching out the word Veteran, and writing Champion on top?

If the plan is also to lock gear behind Champion Rank then it is literally no different from the current Veteran Rank system in place FFS.

It is the same. bloody. thing.

The only difference is that the numbers are just going to be bigger on your character sheet and will probably take longer to hit cap. In fact I think this sounds much worse than the original veteran rank system where each VR took progressively longer and longer to get.

Just remove the Champion System already since it has been the source of too many problems since its implementation (because you guys basically messed up the implementation and allowed people to get 1000+ CPs BEFORE you went back and added a cap), keep Veteran Ranks (and increase the cap as needed, BUT NOT THE MATERIAL REQUIREMENTS FFS), bring back softcaps to stats, and remove AoE caps, and presto, you've basically solved every problem you've had since 1.6 went live.

It's only the same for people who don't have VR characters. For people who do, it is a HUGH improvement.

No the only "huge improvement" I see is "oh boy now since CP is account-wide all I have to do is get my alt to 50 and I'm golden!"

If you can find any other solid reasons why it'll be an improvement please post them instead of just saying "it'll be a 'HUGH' improvement.

(also, l2spell)

E: Also you know it as well as I do that they're going to find another way to screw you hard to make gaining Champion ranks a miserable experience just like they did with Veteran Rank System 1.0

Uberkull

So @ZOS_RichLambert, let's reveal the rest of the plan.

Do you players think that the 501 CP cap is it, not moving again? No way.

If you believe what Rich outlined with CP is the new system, the easy solution for players RIGHT NOW is to get ready for anything ZOS changes with the VR system. This means, go out and grind to 501 CP now and you will be set for the rest of the game. Forever. Unless...

...if ZOS raises the CP cap, remember that all the CP you earn over 501 doesn't show up, but it's still there. So if you are at 501 CP when this new level system hits, the conversion 'should' ADD CP to the 501 you have but just won't show or allow you to use it. BUT, when the CP cap goes up, you will already be close to the new CP cap....unless they triple it. I expect the cap will double each time.

This is why this proposed system is flawed. Players will grind to 501 CP now if they are smart. The new system hits, they can wear any gear that's in the game because it's based on CP numbers. If you have a VR16, who doesn't?, the conversion will net you 40 CP, so you will be at 541 CP. This is the minimum. You will most likely will have earned a lot more CP after 501 CP before this new system hits so you will be well on your way to the next CP cap, which will probably be 1002 CP.

So, instead of trying to reason with the logic of ZOS, just buy into it and get ready. 501 CP or bust. If you are already there, well...nothing left for you to do if you are BIS on all your gear. Right?

terrordactyl1971

What will happen to Cadwells Silver/Gold? You'd still need to go through it to get the quest skillpoints and skyshard skillpoints surely?

NewBlacksmurf

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

What will happen to Cadwells Silver/Gold? You'd still need to go through it to get the quest skillpoints and skyshard skillpoints surely?

Yep

Scyantific

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

What will happen to Cadwells Silver/Gold? You'd still need to go through it to get the quest skillpoints and skyshard skillpoints surely?

If they're smart they'll just open up for Silver and Gold areas up as soon as your character hits the Champion Ranks.

If they're dumb they'll gate silver and gold behind Champion Rank (i.e. you need Champion Rank 200 to get into Cadwell's Gold)

Based on previous experiences, take a guess at which one they'll do.

Answer:

Option B. Hope you can hit those ranks fast to get Gold!

Meshal

i dont get it, does this mean each character will have its own cp?

Scyantific

Meshal wrote: »

i dont get it, does this mean each character will have its own cp?

Knowing Zenimax they will undoubtedly screw everyone over by making all CP character bound.

Enjoy grinding to 501 CP on each toon guys.

NewBlacksmurf

Scyantific wrote: »

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

What will happen to Cadwells Silver/Gold? You'd still need to go through it to get the quest skillpoints and skyshard skillpoints surely?

If they're smart they'll just open up for Silver and Gold areas up as soon as your character hits the Champion Ranks.

If they're dumb they'll gate silver and gold behind Champion Rank (i.e. you need Champion Rank 200 to get into Cadwell's Gold)

Based on previous experiences, take a guess at which one they'll do.

Answer:

Option B. Hope you can hit those ranks fast to get Gold!

That isn't how the Cadwell system is set up now. It's not based on a VR level requirement. It's based on quest progression
I doubt anything will change just because of removing VR but we can always hope:-)

Meshal

Scyantific wrote: »

Meshal wrote: »

i dont get it, does this mean each character will have its own cp?

Knowing Zenimax they will undoubtedly screw everyone over by making all CP character bound.

Enjoy grinding to 501 CP on each toon guys.

if that's the case, what's the point of removing VRs then? this would eff up the leveling system to even worse situation

Khaos_Bane

Scyantific wrote: »

Meshal wrote: »

i dont get it, does this mean each character will have its own cp?

Knowing Zenimax they will undoubtedly screw everyone over by making all CP character bound.

Enjoy grinding to 501 CP on each toon guys.

Surely they won't do this...will they? I like playing different characters, and not being locked into one just to keep up with CP.

Castagere

Lol replacing one bad system with another one.

Elijah_Crow

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

Meshal wrote: »

i dont get it, does this mean each character will have its own cp?

Knowing Zenimax they will undoubtedly screw everyone over by making all CP character bound.

Enjoy grinding to 501 CP on each toon guys.

Surely they won't do this...will they? I like playing different characters, and not being locked into one just to keep up with CP.

No they won't. I hope however they remove the ability to use Champion Points on any character under level 50. Playing an alt is overpowered with CP's and this will fix the issue of CP's in NonVet Campaigns.

Dominoid

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Why in the world are you trying to move VR requirements into CP requirements. That makes no sense.

Admittedly I didn't read through the whole thread to see if this has been discussed further. The two are ENTIRELY different. Veteran Ranks are a PITA for alts. You MUST go through them to equip the highest gear.

Currently:
Level alt to 50 and then grind nearly 14 million more XP before you can euip what your other character can.

New System:
Level alt to 50. Equip what you want as CP is account wide!

The "problem" with VR is corrected.

The Uninvited

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Scyantific wrote: »

Meshal wrote: »

i dont get it, does this mean each character will have its own cp?

Knowing Zenimax they will undoubtedly screw everyone over by making all CP character bound.

Enjoy grinding to 501 CP on each toon guys.

Surely they won't do this...will they? I like playing different characters, and not being locked into one just to keep up with CP.

No they won't. I hope however they remove the ability to use Champion Points on any character under level 50. Playing an alt is overpowered with CP's and this will fix the issue of CP's in NonVet Campaigns.

They should do this, totally agree on it.

Meshal

Dominoid wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Why in the world are you trying to move VR requirements into CP requirements. That makes no sense.

Admittedly I didn't read through the whole thread to see if this has been discussed further. The two are ENTIRELY different. Veteran Ranks are a PITA for alts. You MUST go through them to equip the highest gear.

Currently:
Level alt to 50 and then grind nearly 14 million more XP before you can euip what your other character can.

New System:
Level alt to 50. Equip what you want as CP is account wide!

The "problem" with VR is corrected.

NIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIICE , that's really really good news , i was really worried for a minute >.<