"No, We are not raising the VR cap before we remove them."

Shadesofkin

I'm not saying they should do this, but: if I were designing improved post 50 experience, I would lock Champion Points behind a character lock with an additional account unlock tied directly to achievement. The more achievements you earn on an alt the more of the CP your highest Champion Ranked Character has would be accessible to you. Then, it would be a matter of player choice, go for the achievements to unlock your max Champion Points, or just level the alt as is.

Dreyloch

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 wrote: »

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 wrote: »

Won't this just create even more disparity between the have's and have-not's?

Not necessarily. With the catch up system it will basically create a sort of horizontal progression system rather than a typical vertical one. By the end of each "season" ie; the time between when the CP caps are raised, if you're playing the game with any regularity you should have caught up to the minimum CP to equip certain gear. In the meantime the gear you're using will still be suitable to do any content out there. If the future of progression for this game is going to be anything like the current track record; old set bonuses will still be perfectly viable, but new ones open up new builds and possibilities.

The fact that he said, "The best gear", is what concerns me..

If the CP cap is raised in conjunction with new DLC's (which I assume is what will happen) and the best gear is locked behind the purchase of such a DLC, the gap between players will only continue to grow.

If that happens, there won't be a gap because tons of players will just up and quit. Actually, by the time this all gets to live another game will probably be out and everyone will be gone anyway lol.

Scyantific

Dreyloch wrote: »

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 wrote: »

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 wrote: »

Won't this just create even more disparity between the have's and have-not's?

Not necessarily. With the catch up system it will basically create a sort of horizontal progression system rather than a typical vertical one. By the end of each "season" ie; the time between when the CP caps are raised, if you're playing the game with any regularity you should have caught up to the minimum CP to equip certain gear. In the meantime the gear you're using will still be suitable to do any content out there. If the future of progression for this game is going to be anything like the current track record; old set bonuses will still be perfectly viable, but new ones open up new builds and possibilities.

The fact that he said, "The best gear", is what concerns me..

If the CP cap is raised in conjunction with new DLC's (which I assume is what will happen) and the best gear is locked behind the purchase of such a DLC, the gap between players will only continue to grow.

If that happens, there won't be a gap because tons of players will just up and quit. Actually, by the time this all gets to live another game will probably be out and everyone will be gone anyway lol.

Well get ready for a ghost town of a game because this is exactly what's going to happen. New BiS gear in every x-pac that's not only reserved for people at the cap, but also BoP so you are forced to buy the DLC.

NewBlacksmurf

Meshal wrote: »

i dont get it, does this mean each character will have its own cp?

THIS!!!
I don't think

Dominoid wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Why in the world are you trying to move VR requirements into CP requirements. That makes no sense.

Admittedly I didn't read through the whole thread to see if this has been discussed further. The two are ENTIRELY different. Veteran Ranks are a PITA for alts. You MUST go through them to equip the highest gear.

Currently:
Level alt to 50 and then grind nearly 14 million more XP before you can euip what your other character can.

New System:
Level alt to 50. Equip what you want as CP is account wide!

The "problem" with VR is corrected.

In order to equip gear, you have to obtain it first or buy it/make it so why there is a requirement of X amount of CP's makes no sense at all IF the goal is to remove player VR levels. This isn't removing anything it's only moving VR requirements to CP.

The true VR16 having completed Cadwell, IC and Orsinium with Vr16 blue or better gear is far more than what a new 50 would be regardless of CP's.

It needless to have a requirement if this is how it's being done so even if you are above all CP requirements you're more ineffective but that's another topic. And then future gear begs higher CP vs just progression of gear above 50 so initially yes it feels great and then we all end up where we are now with new CP requirements.

Shadesofkin

I'm not entirely convinced it's entirely true that every x-pack will have BiS gear for the new CP cap.

Just a hypothetical, someone hits enough CP to grab The Silks of the Sun Set that is dropping in Hel Ra Citadel.
They have enough CP to totes equip it (lets say its like 130 for the sake of argument) and they do. If the armor stats aren't significantly different with say...200 cp gear then they can rock Silks of the Sun set until they do hit a place where they absolutely need to change gear.

SturgeHammer

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

I know this was said to be comforting, but it's actually terrifying. I find the biggest complaint with the current vet rank system to be that the vast majority of gear becomes obsolete when the cap is increased, simply because the new gear has better stats. Tying gear requirements to an even more granular progression system will only intensify this issue.

The Golden Age for this game will probably be the stretch of time from the launch of Orsinium to the moment vet ranks are removed and this new gear requirement system is implemented. During this time the players will have fun exploring new play styles and builds brought about by new itemization options and game mechanics (new abilities, weapons types, etc). Players will still grind for the new sets they want, but won't feel forced into it. Players will also still grind to get cps to improve thier stats. We are entering a brief period where the end game gear and stat progression will be separate entities and I think players will enjoy that.

Scyantific

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I'm not entirely convinced it's entirely true that every x-pack will have BiS gear for the new CP cap.

Just a hypothetical, someone hits enough CP to grab The Silks of the Sun Set that is dropping in Hel Ra Citadel.
They have enough CP to totes equip it (lets say its like 130 for the sake of argument) and they do. If the armor stats aren't significantly different with say...200 cp gear then they can rock Silks of the Sun set until they do hit a place where they absolutely need to change gear.

I get where you're coming from, but all you have to do is look at Imperial City to know that this argument only really applies to item sets, and essentially falls apart when you start looking at things beyond set bonuses, like enchantments and armor/attack power levels.

Example:
MK and Overwhelming Surge are essentially the same set. You could say that a gold V14 MK is just as viable as a Gold V16 OS set if only looking at the set bonuses. But then again the problem isn't the set bonuses, the difference comes from the enchantments that can be applied to both as well as the armor difference. Gold v16 OS set provides significantly more resources and protection than MK overall, which is what makes it completely superior and makes MK obsolete.

Shadesofkin

Scyantific wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I'm not entirely convinced it's entirely true that every x-pack will have BiS gear for the new CP cap.

Just a hypothetical, someone hits enough CP to grab The Silks of the Sun Set that is dropping in Hel Ra Citadel.
They have enough CP to totes equip it (lets say its like 130 for the sake of argument) and they do. If the armor stats aren't significantly different with say...200 cp gear then they can rock Silks of the Sun set until they do hit a place where they absolutely need to change gear.

I get where you're coming from, but all you have to do is look at Imperial City to know that this argument only really applies to item sets, and essentially falls apart when you start looking at things beyond set bonuses, like enchantments and armor/attack power levels.

Example:
MK and Overwhelming Surge are essentially the same set. You could say that a gold V14 MK is just as viable as a Gold V16 OS set if only looking at the set bonuses. But then again the problem isn't the set bonuses, the difference comes from the enchantments that can be applied to both as well as the armor difference. Gold v16 OS set provides significantly more resources and protection than MK overall, which is what makes it completely superior and makes MK obsolete.

Yeah, I see what you're saying, I'm just trying to remain entirely optimistic.

I'd have made item progression it's own thing rather than tying it into CP, but I'm going to wait and see. I want to have my hands on it before I condemn or totally praise it. I really believe that CP is the better route for post 50 improvement, but I'm definitely wary now that we know CP will tie to Gear.

Slurg

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Assuming CPs continue to be applied account-wide, as a casual player who enjoys playing multiple characters, I look forward to being able to advance by playing whoever I feel like playing without falling too far behind. It's a game, it should be fun.

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Please consider doing what you did the first time you converted VR to CP and make it X points per veteran level across multiple characters up to a cap. Many people have multiple veteran level characters.

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

Please do keep us posted and consider our feedback. Clearly there are many questions that we would like to have addressed. One of my questions is how the Cadwell's zones will be handled. I would like to go back to these and finish content I skipped because of out leveling the zones. Will I be able to go back and earn CP in these zones under the new system?

Slurg

Gidorick wrote: »

Dominoid wrote: »

Also
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3thlqh/welcome_to_the_elder_scrolls_online_orsinium_aua/cx69emf

There will also be gear scaling and gear will require you to have X champion points. Better items will require more champion points.

I can't wait for these forums to be ablaze when this happens. if CP were not shared by all characters this might make sense... but since they are this makes NO sense... so a player can level one character to max CP then level another character to level 50 and suddenly that character can use all the same gear?

What a way to ruin end game progression.

Of course. making end-game progression character wide does make the game more alt-friendly. Level one character to max CP... then just level other characters to level 50 and they are just as capable as your maxed character.

End game progression is most certainly not ruined for me if I can spread progression across multiple characters instead of limiting it to getting each and every one to VR 16. It is greatly improved. If I can play whatever content I feel like playing with whichever character I feel like playing it on without gimping myself, that is a lot more fun.

Shadesofkin

Slurg wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Dominoid wrote: »

Also
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3thlqh/welcome_to_the_elder_scrolls_online_orsinium_aua/cx69emf

There will also be gear scaling and gear will require you to have X champion points. Better items will require more champion points.

I can't wait for these forums to be ablaze when this happens. if CP were not shared by all characters this might make sense... but since they are this makes NO sense... so a player can level one character to max CP then level another character to level 50 and suddenly that character can use all the same gear?

What a way to ruin end game progression.

Of course. making end-game progression character wide does make the game more alt-friendly. Level one character to max CP... then just level other characters to level 50 and they are just as capable as your maxed character.

End game progression is most certainly not ruined for me if I can spread progression across multiple characters instead of limiting it to getting each and every one to VR 16. It is greatly improved. If I can play whatever content I feel like playing with whichever character I feel like playing it on without gimping myself, that is a lot more fun.

And that is exactly why I didn't assume the sky was falling even if I don't totally agree with every change being made.

HairyFairy

If people didn't feel like getting to level 50 was an end, and then VR ranks were the load put on top, then there wouldn't be a problem.

So why do people feel like hitting level 50 should've been end game?

I suppose, why have 16 Veteran ranks?

Does there actually have to be a major overhaul, or can we wipe away the veteran ranks down to VR1, and only add 1 rank per DLC?


My only concern for CP's taking over, is that they are account wide. I am a very competitive player, and I do play often, but I never feel as if I have enough time to create multiple characters, and grind them all the way up to gain tons of CP.

I have one character that I play, therefore I will always be at a disadvantage.

Your arguments can only be, well play more characters, which simply isn't the right answer.

My question would then be: Why are CP's not restricted to each character, and what would happen if this was done?

I can't think of any harm it would do except make a lot of people upset over the fact that they now don't have a ton of CP sitting behind a cap wall.

They actually get to gain CP again, on each character, making each character work for their own CP.

All of the CP that these players currently have should be distributed equally among their characters, or hell, give them the option to distribute the CP to their characters however they see fit.

Stalwart385

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

I never had a big issue with Vet ranks. Seemed like an argument over semantics or at worse they were redundant. Still I like this change. I like the simplification and that an experienced player can more easily level alts.

Slurg

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Slurg wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

Dominoid wrote: »

Also
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3thlqh/welcome_to_the_elder_scrolls_online_orsinium_aua/cx69emf

There will also be gear scaling and gear will require you to have X champion points. Better items will require more champion points.

I can't wait for these forums to be ablaze when this happens. if CP were not shared by all characters this might make sense... but since they are this makes NO sense... so a player can level one character to max CP then level another character to level 50 and suddenly that character can use all the same gear?

What a way to ruin end game progression.

Of course. making end-game progression character wide does make the game more alt-friendly. Level one character to max CP... then just level other characters to level 50 and they are just as capable as your maxed character.

End game progression is most certainly not ruined for me if I can spread progression across multiple characters instead of limiting it to getting each and every one to VR 16. It is greatly improved. If I can play whatever content I feel like playing with whichever character I feel like playing it on without gimping myself, that is a lot more fun.

And that is exactly why I didn't assume the sky was falling even if I don't totally agree with every change being made.

I think a lot will depend on how they implement this change, and I'm sure there will be bumps along the way. There always are. But all the doom and gloom being slung around the forum today about end game being "ruined" is really premature.

NewBlacksmurf

HairyFairy wrote: »

If people didn't feel like getting to level 50 was an end, and then VR ranks were the load put on top, then there wouldn't be a problem.

So why do people feel like hitting level 50 should've been end game?

I suppose, why have 16 Veteran ranks?

Does there actually have to be a major overhaul, or can we wipe away the veteran ranks down to VR1, and only add 1 rank per DLC?


My only concern for CP's taking over, is that they are account wide. I am a very competitive player, and I do play often, but I never feel as if I have enough time to create multiple characters, and grind them all the way up to gain tons of CP.

I have one character that I play, therefore I will always be at a disadvantage.

Your arguments can only be, well play more characters, which simply isn't the right answer.

My question would then be: Why are CP's not restricted to each character, and what would happen if this was done?

I can't think of any harm it would do except make a lot of people upset over the fact that they now don't have a ton of CP sitting behind a cap wall.

They actually get to gain CP again, on each character, making each character work for their own CP.

All of the CP that these players currently have should be distributed equally among their characters, or hell, give them the option to distribute the CP to their characters however they see fit.

In short you're describing the current system which is the problem.
Me em the changes proposed continue the problem

Why people feel 50 is the end is because if you're doing the quests prior to the scaling of the main and fighters guild/mages guild quests the point where you hit 45+ you start on finishing the main quests.

Everything after that is just stuff to keep ppl busy

Craglorn would be the next step if it were rolled out at launch OR if faction account lock was still in place so then Cyrodil, IC and Craglorn would all be level Vr1 or should I saw level 50

Everything else like Cadwell was a mess and doesn't even align with the point of the games story.
Now I guess we are just going to stay in the mess....remove a VR indicator and further the problem with CP limitations instead of VR.

WillhelmBlack

So, not only do you get all the CP passives, you get the best gear as well? Hahahahahaha!

Tamanous

Freedom of play is key in this game. It is too bad ZOS didn't have the foresight to implement this earlier. This just secured me as a longer term player instead of a month sub then quit out of boredom from the rat maze.

Zimm

Most games with enjoyable end-game content (obviously IMO) keep gearing and boons (What I see CP as) separate. Have lvl50 as your lvlCap, have Tier Gear like any successful MMO does, and use CP as your boon system (This would be a vast improvement over boon systems in other MMOs, making ESO end-game unique) Using Tier Gear, a system we know works, and improving upon Boon Systems with the CP system allowing full customization would make for an enjoyable End-Game experience IMO.

sfpiesb14_ESO

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert

For attribute points, please do not attach them to CP. Instead just provide an additional attribute point at specific milestones. So every 5th level (5, 15, 25, 35, 45) you would gain an additional attribute point, and every 10th level (10, 20, 30, 40, 50) you get an additional 2 attribute points. This would total 64 since level 50 is the same as vet rank 1.

This is the best route to go. I really don't like attaching attribute points to cp then you're just replacing vr with cp up to 160 cp.

What happens when I make a new alt? Does it automatically get 15 more attribute points/skill points once you leave coldharbour since it already has 160+ cp since I have a v16 toon?

Edit:

Also for a new player you're NOT at max level when you hit 50. You still need to grind to cp160 (i.e. v16) to be "Max Level"

Xendyn

HairyFairy wrote: »

If people didn't feel like getting to level 50 was an end, and then VR ranks were the load put on top, then there wouldn't be a problem.

So why do people feel like hitting level 50 should've been end game?

I suppose, why have 16 Veteran ranks?

Does there actually have to be a major overhaul, or can we wipe away the veteran ranks down to VR1, and only add 1 rank per DLC?

Because it was...
Originally the game was faction locked. People in Beta started crying that they couldn't see the whole game on one character so the (obviously inconsistent with the story and trumped up) Cadwell's was born.

We are finally getting rid of something that should never have been in the first place.

My hope for this is it will finally, truly open up Tamriel to be played and explored in whatever order you want to.

The Uninvited

HairyFairy wrote: »

If people didn't feel like getting to level 50 was an end, and then VR ranks were the load put on top, then there wouldn't be a problem.

So why do people feel like hitting level 50 should've been end game?

I suppose, why have 16 Veteran ranks?

Does there actually have to be a major overhaul, or can we wipe away the veteran ranks down to VR1, and only add 1 rank per DLC?


My only concern for CP's taking over, is that they are account wide. I am a very competitive player, and I do play often, but I never feel as if I have enough time to create multiple characters, and grind them all the way up to gain tons of CP.

I have one character that I play, therefore I will always be at a disadvantage.

Your arguments can only be, well play more characters, which simply isn't the right answer.

My question would then be: Why are CP's not restricted to each character, and what would happen if this was done?

I can't think of any harm it would do except make a lot of people upset over the fact that they now don't have a ton of CP sitting behind a cap wall.

They actually get to gain CP again, on each character, making each character work for their own CP.

All of the CP that these players currently have should be distributed equally among their characters, or hell, give them the option to distribute the CP to their characters however they see fit.

No, actually you would be at an advantage not a disadvantage.

Because every new character you play would have the same amount of CP, BUT you could also just play the one character you have now.

Whatever you do, the more CP you have, the more time it takes to get them (catch up system). No matter how many characters you have. So this way, you don't need to "grind them all the way up to gain tons of CP."

The ones that have several V16's would be at a bigger disadvantage because of CP being account wide.

They max levelled those characters, while they could have played just one and earned CP on that character while the other ones would have been enough by just reaching V1.

However, I don't mind as I had a lot of fun levelling them all. The only advantage we have, is that when the gear level gets raised, we don't have to grind all the characters back up to make them wear it.

I just wish riding skills were account wide too.
.

LearnThis

I have read through enough pages of "Everyone will leave if [this] happens," but other games have made changes before and for the better. A recent example is Destiny. I am not saying I trust and expect everything to go rainbows and fart sprinkles but I have hopes they can do this right and improve the game, not break it. There were plenty of good ideas shared by the community that could be combined and implemented with what is being planned.

I do agree with people that this game is becoming more and more a required DLC to play and not an optional choice. Bind on pickup is messing with traders, Rwalkha is a ghost town compared to a month or two ago. We can trade materials now, so there is that. DLC is supposed to be in addition to the game not a requirement to play. ZOS could do a lockout design where you cannot own/buy/pickup DLC stuff without owning the DLC so those that have it can still trade.

Sorry, started going off in a different direction than the original post. I am personally okay with getting rid of the veteran ranks IF (IF is important) those that have more experience still have a benefit of having all that experience and time invested. Also, IF the Champion Points are not the "new" level as many have stated before me. I would hate to try and find a group just for someone to say, "You must have [x] many CP to group with us."

For those of us with multiple V16 characters and plenty of CP, why would armor based on CP be worse than requiring a veteran rank? At least with CP being shared you could play on multiple characters and still raise your CP. Right now, if I level a character to V16 and I have a different character at V1, they cannot share that V16 armor. I would love to be able to share armor based on CP because all characters that are level 50 could wear it! So, what are the negatives of CP based armor?

deadlock007

So the time has come Now the majority of people who cried about VR are realizing that it will only be replaced by an even bigger grind.

You have the people that complained that their friends left because of VR being to hard to level and even though its an MMO can't seem to find anyone to play with - Sorry, but it will take longer to get max CP than it did for VR16. IF your friends come back, do you think they will be happy with this and stay? My bet is probably not.

You have the people that complained about the grind for gear every time they raised VR - Sorry but the gear grind is here to stay. With 3600 CP that can be earned and the insane amount of mats it will probably take for max level gear, you are looking at more level cap raises and longer grinds than VR ever would have been without this change.

You have the people that say they have to do it because "they said they would" - Sorry but , (yeah, that's about all I can say about that one)

Plus many other reasons that I don't feel like listing that in my opinion doesn't justify a complete reworking of a game that has been out for almost 2 years.

The only players this change benefits are the people that play more than average and have alts. Myself being one of them, yet I am still against it. The way the system is now I think is just fine. Excuse me while I quote myself from a post a few weeks ago.

deadlock007 wrote: »

The way it is now is darn near perfect. VR and CP compliment each other nicely.

- Have a new high level vet but hardly any CP, you get more power with gear and vet ranks
- Have a new lower level VR alt, you can get more power with your CP
- Have a new VR character with very little CP, that's where the catch up mechanics and CP cap come into play
- Have a new character all together - you can get more power BY PLAYING THE GAME

People are fooling themselves if they think CP is less of a grind than VR. In my opinion either one is horrible without the other.

This is how I still feel. If they would have just unlocked Silver and Gold as soon as you hit vet and maybe even lowered the required XP a little more, the issues with VR would have been gone. I don't care about your 5 friends that left the game and MAY come back if VR is gone or of you don't want to play and put time in to learn and develop your character. What I do care about is having fun playing a game I enjoy and in order to keep the servers on the game needs players. The only thing I have ever seen that makes people come and play, whether new or returning, is new content. Something this useless change has taken way too much dev time from.

I really love this game, always have and will probably play it until the servers are shut down. However, at this point and time, in regards to this topic, I find that I have become one of



Now excuse me, I have some fun to have in Tamriel.....

TL/DR: We told you so.....

Tamanous

Grats ZOS! This change is bringing 2 of my friends into the game now. Can't implement this change soon enough.

zornyan

sfpiesb14_ESO wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert

For attribute points, please do not attach them to CP. Instead just provide an additional attribute point at specific milestones. So every 5th level (5, 15, 25, 35, 45) you would gain an additional attribute point, and every 10th level (10, 20, 30, 40, 50) you get an additional 2 attribute points. This would total 64 since level 50 is the same as vet rank 1.

This is the best route to go. I really don't like attaching attribute points to cp then you're just replacing vr with cp up to 160 cp.

What happens when I make a new alt? Does it automatically get 15 more attribute points/skill points once you leave coldharbour since it already has 160+ cp since I have a v16 toon?

Edit:

Also for a new player you're NOT at max level when you hit 50. You still need to grind to cp160 (i.e. v16) to be "Max Level"

Yes but a new player will have the catch up mechanics full benefit, that will only take a week at best to hit 160, once that's done they, and all future alts will be at max level.

Infact I think with the mechanic 160 cp is a good chunk less grinding / xp than 16 vr ranks. As even at 190 cp I'm getting about 6cp per vet rank.

The Uninvited

LearnThis wrote: »

I have read through enough pages of "Everyone will leave if [this] happens," but other games have made changes before and for the better. A recent example is Destiny. I am not saying I trust and expect everything to go rainbows and fart sprinkles but I have hopes they can do this right and improve the game, not break it. There were plenty of good ideas shared by the community that could be combined and implemented with what is being planned.

I do agree with people that this game is becoming more and more a required DLC to play and not an optional choice. Bind on pickup is messing with traders, Rwalkha is a ghost town compared to a month or two ago. We can trade materials now, so there is that. DLC is supposed to be in addition to the game not a requirement to play. ZOS could do a lockout design where you cannot own/buy/pickup DLC stuff without owning the DLC so those that have it can still trade.

Sorry, started going off in a different direction than the original post. I am personally okay with getting rid of the veteran ranks IF (IF is important) those that have more experience still have a benefit of having all that experience and time invested. Also, IF the Champion Points are not the "new" level as many have stated before me. I would hate to try and find a group just for someone to say, "You must have [x] many CP to group with us."

For those of us with multiple V16 characters and plenty of CP, why would armor based on CP be worse than requiring a veteran rank? At least with CP being shared you could play on multiple characters and still raise your CP. Right now, if I level a character to V16 and I have a different character at V1, they cannot share that V16 armor. I would love to be able to share armor based on CP because all characters that are level 50 could wear it! So, what are the negatives of CP based armor?

This is my only "fear" with the new system. Groups going: "LF1M dps for gold pledge, must have 400 CP or more".

Docmandu

I really don't understand why these games feel the need to make always better gear stat-wise. It deprecates old content, since you will be too powerful for it. It seems that ZOS is also in the mindset that forcing people to grind is somehow "fun".. why not design content that people do because they love it, not because they are forced into it.

ie. look at wrothgar.. I'm sure many people played it to see the content.. not for the gear in it.

If you want to put new gear in the game.. don't increase the spell damage / magicka / stamina / .. , just give them different effects.. something unique... or tie some unique skills to them.. ie. give people choices.. increasing gear caps just means everybody re-grinds for the zillionth time and we all run around in the same gear for the next 3 months until the next grind. Or until we get so sick and tired of the grinding that we move on.

There's also other stuff you can reward people with, why does it need to be a gear bump?! f.ex. a reward that allows you to have more than 1 CP spec load out.. or a respec item.. or... plenty of things to reward people with.

REALLY hope they re-consider their gear tier / seasonal gear idea... but doubt it... if gear grinds replace VR grinds, I'm not sure I want to be part of it.. esp. since I basically play the game for PvP.. any time I need to PvE grind for gear, it's forcing me to do something I detest, just so I can be on somewhat equal grounds with the players I run into in PvP. (which since IC release is already pretty unbalanced.. with the high cost of VR16 items and the huge stat different of VR16 gold vs VR15 purple).

The ESO Live episode didn't really help... seems the idea of a gear grinder is firmly set in the minds of ZOS

Enodoc

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

VR1- VR5 NPCs would be represented as level 50 and bosses [ 51 ] and dungeon or elite bosses [ 51]
VR 6-VR10 is 52 , [ 53] and [ 53]
VR11-VR15 is 54, [ 55] and [55]
VR16 is 56, [56] and [56]

This wouldn't remove the implied order of content [ Silver > Gold > Craglorn > Cyrodiil ] which really needs to be removed; this would suggest that Craglorn was 54 and Cadwell's Silver was 50, implying that Cadwell's should be done first. All Veteran NPCs need to have a displayed Level 50 so that it is clear that the content can be done in any order.

Just commenting on my quote
-I don't believe nor have I read anywhere that removing VR levels was to adjust the system around VR content so this wouldn't be changed. It only is adjusted to make logical sense after the VR indicators are removed from players and NPC's.

The main reason you would not place all NPC's at 50 is because there is a mat, item and gear progression that still applies and to easily indicate this the NPC's would vary in levels within 5 levels of the max base level. Any VR16 things would be 56 as that system doesn't magically go away by removing VR levels.

Now if ZOS was removing VR levels and VR content this would differ but that's not the case and as such, only numeric indicators are needed to replace the VR indicators but one level should not represent one VR because the 1-50 system doesn't work that way and so with No VR things should go back to normal

Yeah, the content is staying, but some balancing will need to be made since that content is currently designed around a linear progression based on the system which is being removed. The difficulty will still be there, but the numbers won't; visibly everything would be Level 50. It would be illogical to label enemies with something that players cannot attain. If we're going to use 5x to enumerate an invisible difficulty factor (as a factor of Level 50), then I would like something like this:
Silver Zone 1-3 = 51
Silver Zone 4-5 = 53
Gold Zone 1-3 = 51
Gold Zone 4-5 = 53
Lower Crag = 51
Upper Crag = 54
HRC/AA = 52
SO = 54
Cyrodiil = 52
Imperial City = 54

Nafirian

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

Your putting effort into a system that just needs to be removed just so you can keep it instead of focusing on PVP Dont blame us when your game is rip in 5 months.

Zhoyzu

Shadesofkin wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Because the people that want instant gratification seem to be winning.
So logical next step is instant max character.
I certainly am not a hater of this game, just lazy people.

No. Bad forum user.

Some of us genuinely believe that the game will be healthier without Veteran Ranks, that certain parts of content will become viable as a source of entertainment again. Having a different opinion based on our own findings is not the same thing as being grossly generalized into some sort of shadow generation of people.

Such as more fun with alternate characters as opposed to the 7 mules everyone has