"No, We are not raising the VR cap before we remove them."

kupacmac

spoqster wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

Strange news. I was under the impression the veteran ranks would be removed to make the game less vertical. The big goal should be to reduce the grind and get people to max level
quicker.

With the CS being more vertical than initially anticipated and the introduction of CS requirements for gear, you're just replacing on vertical progression system with another.

Players need to be brought closer together. In a multiplayer game power and dps should come from player skill and tactics, not from level numbers.

Use gear and experience for horizontal progression, giving players more options while keeping them on the same numerical power level, instead of forcing them into treadmill.

I sound like a broken record about this, but Guild Wars 2 tried to do exactly that. You get bored of not having any progression and leave after a month or two. Believe me, you don't want what you're asking for.

JD2013

spoqster wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

Strange news. I was under the impression the veteran ranks would be removed to make the game less vertical. The big goal should be to reduce the grind and get people to max level
quicker.

With the CS being more vertical than initially anticipated and the introduction of CS requirements for gear, you're just replacing on vertical progression system with another.

Players need to be brought closer together. In a multiplayer game power and dps should come from player skill and tactics, not from level numbers.

Use gear and experience for horizontal progression, giving players more options while keeping them on the same numerical power level, instead of forcing them into treadmill.

Believe me this is nor what you want. If there's no progression past 50, there is no point to new content every 3 months. There is no point in new armour sets. There's no point in doing PVP if you all are the same level. This is not "everybody wins."


There needs to be a progression system past 50, be it Veteran Ranks or Champion Points or something else like that. To keep the player motivated to working towards something. If there was nothing to work towards then I would not want to do content just to faceroll through it ever single time. How dull that would be. I would much rather be working towards something.

NewBlacksmurf

..

kupacmac wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

Strange news. I was under the impression the veteran ranks would be removed to make the game less vertical. The big goal should be to reduce the grind and get people to max level
quicker.

With the CS being more vertical than initially anticipated and the introduction of CS requirements for gear, you're just replacing on vertical progression system with another.

Players need to be brought closer together. In a multiplayer game power and dps should come from player skill and tactics, not from level numbers.

Use gear and experience for horizontal progression, giving players more options while keeping them on the same numerical power level, instead of forcing them into treadmill.

I sound like a broken record about this, but Guild Wars 2 tried to do exactly that. You get bored of not having any progression and leave after a month or two. Believe me, you don't want what you're asking for.

If you follow their comments, they aren't suggesting a Guild Wars 2 logic.
Think of it as it exists today.

-Gear progression exists in Silver, Gold and Craglorn/DSA based on the environment where mats are tiered. This all would stay.
-The difficulty that exists would all stay
-The VR levels that are tied to gear progression, and post 49 progression as well as how the NPC's are labelled beyond level 49 would move to level 50

Now ZOS can still attach seasonal gear to how gear progression exists and even add higher mats as they please. Seemingly this actually works better in the example provided in Orsinium where the mats are based on the crafting passive skills. In essence the drops can seemingly follow a CP but the NPC's and stuff would not.

I think this makes better logic given what exists and what may come as it doesn't lock anyone into missing out on content and also allows each player to progress as ZOS adds in tiers above 49 regardless of the order a player chooses for post 49 content.

This to me doesn't remove vertical progression but it does remove arbitrary grinding for any progression and now ties progression by type vs all into a level concept. Not sure ZOS sees it that way but to me this is a possibility and I've took the liberty to build on the comments of the other forum member but this may not represent their thoughts.

Hiero_Glyph

spoqster wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

Strange news. I was under the impression the veteran ranks would be removed to make the game less vertical. The big goal should be to reduce the grind and get people to max level
quicker.

With the CS being more vertical than initially anticipated and the introduction of CS requirements for gear, you're just replacing on vertical progression system with another.

Players need to be brought closer together. In a multiplayer game power and dps should come from player skill and tactics, not from level numbers.

Use gear and experience for horizontal progression, giving players more options while keeping them on the same numerical power level, instead of forcing them into treadmill.

You are neglecting the fact that CP are account bound, while veteran ranks are character bound. This is significant as while the grind for the first character is close to the same in both cases, for any additional characters the grind is vastly reduced. In order to reach end-game content on any other character you only need to reach level 50 (finish the main storyline). Once you have multiple characters at level 50, then you can play any of them and still progress all of your characters (current and future). Combined with the CP acceleration and cap changes most players will reach end-game requirements in far less time than they could previously. The more characters you have the shorter the relative grind becomes for each of them.

Additionally, players will gain CP at a significantly faster rate initially, so gaining 50 CP is much faster than reaching veteran rank 5. While 160 CP is almost equivalent to veteran rank 16 in terms of total experience, players will be able to attain CP requirements for gear much faster than they could veteran ranks. Enlightenment also helps to boost players faster as well. All in all the new system is much better for the players and helps them to reach end-game more easily, either from less grinding with alts or by allowing players to use any character they want to reach the required amount of CP.

xericdx

Of course, everyone has his opinion that depends a lot on his/her way of playing, how much time can be dedicated to ESO, etc. No way that everybody can be happy.

Personally, I accept the fact that I don't have enough time to become top gun (stupid RL comes in the way ) and have no problem in having the system giving the possibility to those who can (younger, unemployed, no family, different priorities, whatever) to continue their progression and have stronger character(s) than me.

I think that the ideas proposed by ZOS have their merit.
- People will continue having a long character progression that will keep the game interesting. I agree with Kupacmac and JD2013 that simply blocking character progression at lvl50 would be a suicide.
- The Account bound CP will give the chance to players with less time (or willingness) for endless grinding to experiment several Chars/Races/Classes without having to go through the same pain every time (which is the reason why I stick with my main). That would give some diversity and longevity to the ESO experience and help the main goal of reducing grinding as mentioned by Spoqster
- I understand the will of reducing the gap between top players and the mass but I think that ZOS is working on that from another angle (PVP and Group PVE levelling). We won't be at the same level, it would not even be fair...And I belong to the "cannot go that high" category!

In sum, I understand many comments from people that have a different opinion than mine, but I believe that game progression is so important in a game like ESO that people cannot be allowed to easily get to the top and expect that they will still find the game interesting for many more hours after that....

Justice31st

Good, a champion point system worth of 3600 levels and more added later brings more longevity and less quest repetiveness.

Darkstorne

JD2013 wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

Strange news. I was under the impression the veteran ranks would be removed to make the game less vertical. The big goal should be to reduce the grind and get people to max level
quicker.

With the CS being more vertical than initially anticipated and the introduction of CS requirements for gear, you're just replacing on vertical progression system with another.

Players need to be brought closer together. In a multiplayer game power and dps should come from player skill and tactics, not from level numbers.

Use gear and experience for horizontal progression, giving players more options while keeping them on the same numerical power level, instead of forcing them into treadmill.

Believe me this is nor what you want. If there's no progression past 50, there is no point to new content every 3 months. There is no point in new armour sets. There's no point in doing PVP if you all are the same level. This is not "everybody wins."


There needs to be a progression system past 50, be it Veteran Ranks or Champion Points or something else like that. To keep the player motivated to working towards something. If there was nothing to work towards then I would not want to do content just to faceroll through it ever single time. How dull that would be. I would much rather be working towards something.

Yep! And with PVP being group, siege, and skirmish based in this game rather than WoW's Arena or even-team-size Battleground design, it really doesn't matter too much if some level 50 players are stronger than others. That's good for them, but they can't fight an army alone.

spoqster

JD2013 wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

Strange news. I was under the impression the veteran ranks would be removed to make the game less vertical. The big goal should be to reduce the grind and get people to max level
quicker.

With the CS being more vertical than initially anticipated and the introduction of CS requirements for gear, you're just replacing on vertical progression system with another.

Players need to be brought closer together. In a multiplayer game power and dps should come from player skill and tactics, not from level numbers.

Use gear and experience for horizontal progression, giving players more options while keeping them on the same numerical power level, instead of forcing them into treadmill.

Believe me this is nor what you want. If there's no progression past 50, there is no point to new content every 3 months. There is no point in new armour sets. There's no point in doing PVP if you all are the same level. This is not "everybody wins."


There needs to be a progression system past 50, be it Veteran Ranks or Champion Points or something else like that. To keep the player motivated to working towards something. If there was nothing to work towards then I would not want to do content just to faceroll through it ever single time. How dull that would be. I would much rather be working towards something.

I'm not saying there shouldn't be progression. I am arguing that horizontal progression makes for a healthier game and community than vertical progression.

A good example for horizontal progression is the skill system. Unlocking a new skill does not make you more powerful per se, because you have to swap one skill out to fit the new one in. Instead the new skill mainly gives you more options, and may make you more powerful if it synergises with your build. But discovering and exploiting the synergy is player skill.

As long as new content unlocks more options for players, in terms of play styles, gear or even game modes and challenges, players will have plenty of motivation to play the game without the need to make them flat out more powerful by numbers.

spoqster

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

spoqster wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

Strange news. I was under the impression the veteran ranks would be removed to make the game less vertical. The big goal should be to reduce the grind and get people to max level
quicker.

With the CS being more vertical than initially anticipated and the introduction of CS requirements for gear, you're just replacing on vertical progression system with another.

Players need to be brought closer together. In a multiplayer game power and dps should come from player skill and tactics, not from level numbers.

Use gear and experience for horizontal progression, giving players more options while keeping them on the same numerical power level, instead of forcing them into treadmill.

You are neglecting the fact that CP are account bound, while veteran ranks are character bound. This is significant as while the grind for the first character is close to the same in both cases, for any additional characters the grind is vastly reduced. In order to reach end-game content on any other character you only need to reach level 50 (finish the main storyline). Once you have multiple characters at level 50, then you can play any of them and still progress all of your characters (current and future). Combined with the CP acceleration and cap changes most players will reach end-game requirements in far less time than they could previously. The more characters you have the shorter the relative grind becomes for each of them.

Additionally, players will gain CP at a significantly faster rate initially, so gaining 50 CP is much faster than reaching veteran rank 5. While 160 CP is almost equivalent to veteran rank 16 in terms of total experience, players will be able to attain CP requirements for gear much faster than they could veteran ranks. Enlightenment also helps to boost players faster as well. All in all the new system is much better for the players and helps them to reach end-game more easily, either from less grinding with alts or by allowing players to use any character they want to reach the required amount of CP.

Oh yes, you are right. I did neglect that. So the new system will be massively better as you pointed out, with the added benefit of not locking your newer characters out of the newest gear. I'm just not a big fan of level restrictions on gear. I think it's restrictive and I believe the added choices new gear sets offer should provide plenty of motivation for playing new content.

LearnThis

@Hiero_Glyph You said exactly what I stated earlier. I am happier with the change since CP is account based. I have unfortunately already leveled 5 characters now to veteran rank and will probably have them all at V16 before they release the changes but knowing it will happen is a positive reassurance.

As someone else stated, when you reach the end of everything then it is hard to stay playing. I agree with that too, but leveling higher and higher without a purpose of gaining new skills or something beneficial to gameplay would not keep me coming back for more. I prefer the horizontal leveling over the vertical but I understand that many people like the vertical leveling. I hope they are listening to the community and taking in the best ideas.

Skiserony

Dominoid wrote: »

Also
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3thlqh/welcome_to_the_elder_scrolls_online_orsinium_aua/cx69emf

There will also be gear scaling and gear will require you to have X champion points. Better items will require more champion points.

This might be a reason for me to not coming back again.

JMadFour

The biggest thing I get from the VR removal is that my options for endgame PVE gameplay open up more.

right now there is a pretty strict progression from Main ->Cadwell's Silver/Gold-> Craglorn. with VR ranks removed that progression goes away and it is more about "what do I want to do today?" rather than "I need to finish *insert stage* so I can move on".

LearnThis

@JMadFour True.

Khaos_Bane

JMadFour wrote: »

The biggest thing I get from the VR removal is that my options for endgame PVE gameplay open up more.

right now there is a pretty strict progression from Main ->Cadwell's Silver/Gold-> Craglorn. with VR ranks removed that progression goes away and it is more about "what do I want to do today?" rather than "I need to finish *insert stage* so I can move on".

Not really. They have stated that equipping new gear will have a required amount of CP. So now instead of Veteran ranks they will have CP to determine the "level" of gear.

LearnThis

You could now possibly grind out in silver instead of being forced to get to gold to grind out the higher levels. I cannot guarantee that is how it would work, but the possibility of not being forced to get to gold to have a higher leveled character is nice. If they keep the XP difference of silver and gold then yes, people would still power through silver to get to gold to farm their CP there.

Enodoc

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

The biggest thing I get from the VR removal is that my options for endgame PVE gameplay open up more.

right now there is a pretty strict progression from Main ->Cadwell's Silver/Gold-> Craglorn. with VR ranks removed that progression goes away and it is more about "what do I want to do today?" rather than "I need to finish *insert stage* so I can move on".

Not really. They have stated that equipping new gear will have a required amount of CP. So now instead of Veteran ranks they will have CP to determine the "level" of gear.

Maybe so, but JMadFour is talking about no more restrictions (or implied progression) of content, not gear. Even if they decide to tie gear into CPs, there's no need to tie content to CPs as well.

LearnThis

@Enodoc Thanks for stating it better than me.

Gidorick

I don't know if this has been discussed or mentioned by ZOS and I don't feel like it's worth making a new thread about it, so I'll ask it here.

Has ZOS mentioned how they are going to handle the Vet Rank earned skill and attribute points?

wayfarerx

Gidorick wrote: »

I don't know if this has been discussed or mentioned by ZOS and I don't feel like it's worth making a new thread about it, so I'll ask it here.

Has ZOS mentioned how they are going to handle the Vet Rank earned skill and attribute points?

Yeah they said you'd get one of each every 10 cp up to 160 cp.

Enodoc

wayfarerx wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I don't know if this has been discussed or mentioned by ZOS and I don't feel like it's worth making a new thread about it, so I'll ask it here.

Has ZOS mentioned how they are going to handle the Vet Rank earned skill and attribute points?

Yeah they said you'd get one of each every 10 cp up to 160 cp.

Indeed, this was their stated current plan. But on ESO Live they also said they liked the suggestion seen on the forums of giving extra points every five levels so that all points were attained by Level 50. One extra point on the fives and two extra points on the tens makes up exactly the number of points that need to be accounted for.

Gidorick

Enodoc wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I don't know if this has been discussed or mentioned by ZOS and I don't feel like it's worth making a new thread about it, so I'll ask it here.

Has ZOS mentioned how they are going to handle the Vet Rank earned skill and attribute points?

Yeah they said you'd get one of each every 10 cp up to 160 cp.

Indeed, this was their stated current plan. But on ESO Live they also said they liked the suggestion seen on the forums of giving extra points every five levels so that all points were attained by Level 50. One extra point on the fives and two extra points on the tens makes up exactly the number of points that need to be accounted for.

This would be better because then we have the question of players who are pre level 50 having CPs.. will they have more attribute points and skill points than players who are their same level but without CPs.

*sigh* ... how long have they been working on this and they STILL haven't gotten the details nailed down. Even to the point that details like how they are going to distribute attribute and skill points can still change. I just.. I dunno man. I just can't shake the feeling that we're watching the moments before a car crash. It seems like they are designing the game on the fly.

cavakthestampede

My favorite aspect of this change is the affect on alts:

Have your character all earning CP. Time spent on one character will continue to unlock tiers of gear for your alt characters. You will still have to spend/grind/succeed at content for the gear drops, or share from you main.

This is a great step in what a lot of players are asking for in reducing the very painful prospect of having each class, and falling behind due to personal time constraints. Now you can have that other playstyle you crave occasionally and not lose (much).

Also, from there its an easier step to introduce new skill lines or classes (if thats their plan, which based on this platform seems likely) since from this perspective it would be far easier to balance new additions.

Just sayin'.

Hiero_Glyph

Gidorick wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

I don't know if this has been discussed or mentioned by ZOS and I don't feel like it's worth making a new thread about it, so I'll ask it here.

Has ZOS mentioned how they are going to handle the Vet Rank earned skill and attribute points?

Yeah they said you'd get one of each every 10 cp up to 160 cp.

Indeed, this was their stated current plan. But on ESO Live they also said they liked the suggestion seen on the forums of giving extra points every five levels so that all points were attained by Level 50. One extra point on the fives and two extra points on the tens makes up exactly the number of points that need to be accounted for.

This would be better because then we have the question of players who are pre level 50 having CPs.. will they have more attribute points and skill points than players who are their same level but without CPs.

*sigh* ... how long have they been working on this and they STILL haven't gotten the details nailed down. Even to the point that details like how they are going to distribute attribute and skill points can still change. I just.. I dunno man. I just can't shake the feeling that we're watching the moments before a car crash. It seems like they are designing the game on the fly.

ZOS would either just add the attribute points to each character based on their current level or do an attribute respec and rescale everyone accordingly. No one would have less attributes after the change so this is a very straight-forward fix. Skills would work similarly. At this point many of you are trying to find fault with a improved system just because you are nervous. It's fine to not trust ZOS but based on what we know this will be a huge improvement overall.

Dubhliam

Skiserony wrote: »

Dominoid wrote: »

Also
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3thlqh/welcome_to_the_elder_scrolls_online_orsinium_aua/cx69emf

There will also be gear scaling and gear will require you to have X champion points. Better items will require more champion points.

This might be a reason for me to not coming back again.

v15/v16 - become #name your tier#5 (Rubedite)
v9-v14 - become #name your tier#4 (Void)
v7/v8 - become #name your tier#3 (Quicksilver)
v4-v6 - become #name your tier#2 (Galatite)
v1-v3 - become #name your tier#1 (Calcinium)
all wearable at lvl 50.

Questions? I got answers here
Please support if you like, they just might take it into consideration.
It's not like they don't need some player input.

Gidorick

You know what @Hiero_Glyph .... You're right. I don't care for the core concept of the Champion System. I could ignore my issue with it because of the Vet Ranks as the Champion System was more of a background progression. I'm "nit-picking" and looking for ways for it to fail. I should stop that.

My issue is that each of my characters have their own narrative and shared progression kind of craps on that narrative. If I could "lock" a character out of "earning" CPs from my other character, I would. This system actually kind of dissuades me from playing.

I do, however, see how the Champion System will help ESO and make leveling more accessible to most players.

That being said, I worry that eventually people will be saying things like "Why do I have to run content on all my characters to get X-Y-Z (since items are BOP). Why can't I give my armor to my other characters?!?!"

I see the merit in the change. It IS better than Vet Ranks, but I don't think it's better than other options that ZOS has. And yea... I'm nervous how this will pan out and how it will impact ESO long term.

Thankfully, with the CP Cap it will be a long LONG while before everyone is at 3600 CP and we all have the exact same buffs and benefits from the champion system. That day will be fun in like... 10 years!

robkrush

Gidorick wrote: »

You know what @Hiero_Glyph .... You're right. I don't care for the core concept of the Champion System. I could ignore my issue with it because of the Vet Ranks as the Champion System was more of a background progression. I'm "nit-picking" and looking for ways for it to fail. I should stop that.

My issue is that each of my characters have their own narrative and shared progression kind of craps on that narrative. If I could "lock" a character out of "earning" CPs from my other character, I would. This system actually kind of dissuades me from playing.

I do, however, see how the Champion System will help ESO and make leveling more accessible to most players.

That being said, I worry that eventually people will be saying things like "Why do I have to run content on all my characters to get X-Y-Z (since items are BOP). Why can't I give my armor to my other characters?!?!"

I see the merit in the change. It IS better than Vet Ranks, but I don't think it's better than other options that ZOS has. And yea... I'm nervous how this will pan out and how it will impact ESO long term.

Thankfully, with the CP Cap it will be a long LONG while before everyone is at 3600 CP and we all have the exact same buffs and benefits from the champion system. That day will be fun in like... 10 years!

The account bound CP method can provide you as many or more ways to role play than linear progression. You choose how, or IF, you spend your CP. Be as strong or as weak as you want. Add points later, maybe 1 point for each quest you complete? Your progression will be in your hands. Pretty cool if you ask me.

Gidorick

robkrush wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

You know what @Hiero_Glyph .... You're right. I don't care for the core concept of the Champion System. I could ignore my issue with it because of the Vet Ranks as the Champion System was more of a background progression. I'm "nit-picking" and looking for ways for it to fail. I should stop that.

My issue is that each of my characters have their own narrative and shared progression kind of craps on that narrative. If I could "lock" a character out of "earning" CPs from my other character, I would. This system actually kind of dissuades me from playing.

I do, however, see how the Champion System will help ESO and make leveling more accessible to most players.

That being said, I worry that eventually people will be saying things like "Why do I have to run content on all my characters to get X-Y-Z (since items are BOP). Why can't I give my armor to my other characters?!?!"

I see the merit in the change. It IS better than Vet Ranks, but I don't think it's better than other options that ZOS has. And yea... I'm nervous how this will pan out and how it will impact ESO long term.

Thankfully, with the CP Cap it will be a long LONG while before everyone is at 3600 CP and we all have the exact same buffs and benefits from the champion system. That day will be fun in like... 10 years!

The account CP method can provide you as many or more ways to role play than linear progression. You choose how, or IF, you spend your CP. Be as strong or as weak as you want. Add points later, mayber 1 point for each quest you complete? Your progression will be in your hands. Pretty cool if you ask me.

That's a good point. I do have a couple characters I haven't spent any CP on. Of course... I'm the type of player that will level up in the core TES series like 10 levels before I actually level.

I guess at this point we just need to wait and see how it pans out.

Enodoc

Gidorick wrote: »

That being said, I worry that eventually people will be saying things like "Why do I have to run content on all my characters to get X-Y-Z (since items are BOP). Why can't I give my armor to my other characters?!?!"

BOP items are bound to account, aren't they? Not character?

Erdmanski

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

I'm sure this was already said, but I didn't feel like reading through 8 pages. So you are only going to give us CP for one of our characters? So all the characters will get dropped to level 50, but someone with only one character will get the same CP boost as someone like myself who spent the time getting multiple characters to VR16? That seems unfair that all the time it took to get additional characters to VR16 is going to end up being completely wasted since all of that progression is wiped away.

DubyaRules

spoqster wrote: »

I'm just not a big fan of level restrictions on gear. I think it's restrictive

So what I think you're saying here - and please, correct me if I'm wrong - is that...restrictions are restrictive?