"No, We are not raising the VR cap before we remove them."

JMadFour

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3thlqh/welcome_to_the_elder_scrolls_online_orsinium_aua/cx68jk2

[–]ZOS_RichLambert [score hidden] an hour ago

No we aren't raising the VR cap before we remove them.

As for the removal... we're still working on that. We will have more info to share with everyone next year, once we've worked out and finalized things.

about as definitive an answer as one can get.

discuss.

BabeestorGor

Definite too

Dominoid

Also
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3thlqh/welcome_to_the_elder_scrolls_online_orsinium_aua/cx69emf

There will also be gear scaling and gear will require you to have X champion points. Better items will require more champion points.

TequilaFire

Incoming Max level 1000 CP characters in the Crown store.
Seems to be the way of things. smh
When the walls fall down...

JMadFour

TequilaFire wrote: »

Incoming Max level 1000 CP characters in the Crown store.
Seems to be the way of things. smh
When the walls fall down...

I'm not seeing anything that even remotely suggests that this is a possibility.

seems like doomsaying for little reason here.

TheValkyn

Dominoid wrote: »

Also
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3thlqh/welcome_to_the_elder_scrolls_online_orsinium_aua/cx69emf

There will also be gear scaling and gear will require you to have X champion points. Better items will require more champion points.

We've known this since Paul Sage said it in Summer of 2014...

JD2013

TequilaFire wrote: »

Incoming Max level 1000 CP characters in the Crown store.
Seems to be the way of things. smh
When the walls fall down...

Seriously? Where is any indication of this?

C'mon, man. Seriously.

Alucardo

Not sure what to say. I just hope they take their time and get it done right. I imagine there's a lot to think about instead of just changing a few numbers around.
To be honest, the whole VR thing never really bothered me too much.. only when they raised it obviously. Gaining ranks now is easier than ever. Sure it still takes a bit of time, but it should.

Genomic

I'm sure they've gone over the stats regarding how many people were quitting when they hit VR levels. What was driving people away though wasn't VR levels per-se, it was the horrible treadmill placeholder associated with VR levels that is Silver/Gold, so I hope they've taken this into consideration.

Alucardo

Genomic wrote: »

What was driving people away though wasn't VR levels per-se, it was the horrible treadmill placeholder associated with VR levels that is Silver/Gold

I was trying to think of a word for Cadwell's, but I believe you've found it

TequilaFire

Because the people that want instant gratification seem to be winning.
So logical next step is instant max character.
I certainly am not a hater of this game, just lazy people.

Genomic

TequilaFire wrote: »

Because the people that want instant gratification seem to be winning.
So logical next step is instant max character.
I certainly am not a hater of this game, just lazy people.

I guess someone could respond to this by saying they prefer fun to endless grind, and that not everyone is an unemployed OCD living in their parent's basement. But that would be as gross and unfair a generalisation as your comment...

Shadesofkin

TequilaFire wrote: »

Because the people that want instant gratification seem to be winning.
So logical next step is instant max character.
I certainly am not a hater of this game, just lazy people.

No. Bad forum user.

Some of us genuinely believe that the game will be healthier without Veteran Ranks, that certain parts of content will become viable as a source of entertainment again. Having a different opinion based on our own findings is not the same thing as being grossly generalized into some sort of shadow generation of people.

Jitterbug

TheValkyn wrote: »

Dominoid wrote: »

Also
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3thlqh/welcome_to_the_elder_scrolls_online_orsinium_aua/cx69emf

There will also be gear scaling and gear will require you to have X champion points. Better items will require more champion points.

We've known this since Paul Sage said it in Summer of 2014...

paul sage said a lot of batsnip crazy snip

Qyrk

This is very typical. People will keep trying to find new ways to make something an issue (I.e. Tequila's instant max level......)

GaldorP

Consider this though (also from today's AUA on reddit):

ZOS_eWrobel wrote:

There will also be gear scaling and gear will require you to have X champion points. Better items will require more champion points.

So there might still be new tiers of materials introduced in future updates.

TequilaFire

Shadesofkin wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Because the people that want instant gratification seem to be winning.
So logical next step is instant max character.
I certainly am not a hater of this game, just lazy people.

No. Bad forum user.

Some of us genuinely believe that the game will be healthier without Veteran Ranks, that certain parts of content will become viable as a source of entertainment again. Having a different opinion based on our own findings is not the same thing as being grossly generalized into some sort of shadow generation of people.

I disagree and my opinion is just as valid as yours.
I am not alone in this opinion however.
How having a different opinion equates to a bad forum user is poor argument on your part.

Dagoth_Rac

This will make leveling alts much easier. Once you hit Level 50, you will have the same CP as your main and can wear the same high end gear. You will not have have to grind thousands upon thousands of mobs or do hundreds of quests to get from VR1 to VR16 and begin gearing up for and participating in endgame. But, and it's a big but, CP cap increases will not be much different than VR cap increases now. Your existing gear will be meh and you will have to craft, farm, grind, buy, or whatever is necessary to get competitive endgame gear. And new players will still see a mountain of XP in front of them, post Level 50, before they can do endgame content.

Artjuh90

you are aware 500 cp is a bigger grind then 2 vet 16's right? and now it's 'just' capped at 501 ...

Qyrk

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

Your existing gear will be meh and you will have to craft, farm, grind, buy, or whatever is necessary to get competitive endgame gear. And new players will still see a mountain of XP in front of them, post Level 50, before they can do endgame content.

Wow, sounds like an MMO..........oh wait...

Jitterbug

Dagoth_Rac wrote: »

new players will still see a mountain of XP in front of them, post Level 50, before they can do endgame content.

Good point, actually.
It could depend on how they implement the battle levelling into it though. Then maybe über gold end game rare BiS drops might only be necessary for hardcore players while casuals can do content with purple "vr10" gear just fine.

Rust_in_Peace

TequilaFire wrote: »

Because the people that want instant gratification seem to be winning.
So logical next step is instant max character.
I certainly am not a hater of this game, just lazy people.

There's no reason for them to do this.

I have a feeling that once they get rid of VR ranks that it's going to be a lot easier to reach max level. they want people to play the new DLC even if they aren't max level and have PVE battle leveling now for the new zone and dungeons. Why would they encourage people to play that kind of content when they aren't max level? If they were setting things up for selling max level characters wouldn't they have done the opposite? Wouldn't they have gated the content and raised the VR cap again?

ZOS_RichLambert

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

NewBlacksmurf

Dominoid wrote: »

Also
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3thlqh/welcome_to_the_elder_scrolls_online_orsinium_aua/cx69emf

There will also be gear scaling and gear will require you to have X champion points. Better items will require more champion points.

COT Dangit!!!

ZOS is removing something to create a new problem....

Freaking geeez guys SMH

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

Why in the world are you trying to move VR requirements into CP requirements. That makes no sense.
As of today....drop all requirements of existing VR items to level 50.

Set a base because the skills, crafting are all based on a 1-50 scale.
Don't use CP as a requirement. Allow people to gear progress without being limited to also needing a post 50 leveling requirement.

The game does not need two requirements. Pre 50 and a post 50
Allow the game and NPC or encounter difficulty cause the challenge to gear progress.
Allow champion points to offer passive benefits.

Otherwise the big problems ten becomes how to show 4 digits after post 50 on a character and NPC.
So imagine a person hitting level 49, and then at 50 being level 1 on screen. In a week or so they are now level 100+ which isn't really level 100+ or later 300-501....it's confusing because the next alt is then level 5/501?????

Then I'd imagine the CP catchup then boosts a person from what was VR1 to VR16 in an afternoon
Does this not beg the logic....leave well enough alone because you'll end up having CP tiers for Cyrodil and non CP and then having to deal with level 50 crafter making cp591 gear at level 50 but the requirement being Cp vs a level base

I just don't follow the logic and even tho it's still up in the air NO ONE is asking for co to replace VR.
Some want VR to stay but others like me want VR to go

No one wants a new VR system....geez

temjiu

TequilaFire wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Because the people that want instant gratification seem to be winning.
So logical next step is instant max character.
I certainly am not a hater of this game, just lazy people.

No. Bad forum user.

Some of us genuinely believe that the game will be healthier without Veteran Ranks, that certain parts of content will become viable as a source of entertainment again. Having a different opinion based on our own findings is not the same thing as being grossly generalized into some sort of shadow generation of people.

I disagree and my opinion is just as valid as yours.
I am not alone in this opinion however.
How having a different opinion equates to a bad forum user is poor argument on your part.

Your opinion is valid. categorizing people who disagree with you and labeling them in a derogatory way isn't. Just because someone didn't like the VR design does not make them lazy nor desiring of instant gratification. I do not like the VR system. I also did not like the iteration of the "end game" when it was first released. It was poorly designed. the VR levels were part of this poor design They are changing it...how it will all end up we do not know. But I think that your assumption that I am lazy or desire instant gratification isn't any better then his comment that you were a bad forum user.

I personally saw his/her comment as a mild form of wit. Now, i respect your opinion that you don't want the VR levels to go, and I look forward to your logical comments as to why. But I don't accept that you somehow have justification to insult people and call it your "opinion". that's simply silly.

temjiu

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Because the people that want instant gratification seem to be winning.
So logical next step is instant max character.
I certainly am not a hater of this game, just lazy people.

There's no reason for them to do this.

I have a feeling that once they get rid of VR ranks that it's going to be a lot easier to reach max level. they want people to play the new DLC even if they aren't max level and have PVE battle leveling now for the new zone and dungeons. Why would they encourage people to play that kind of content when they aren't max level? If they were setting things up for selling max level characters wouldn't they have done the opposite? Wouldn't they have gated the content and raised the VR cap again?

It's actually interesting that you bring up the concept of max "level". Is it really max level? To be honest, this is just throwing ideas around, but since CP impacts a lvl 1 as much as a max "level" toon, can we call it max level? Im level 500! woot!

It does have a fun feel to it , But I sort of see CP as a threshold. you hit 50, levels no longer exist. It will probably feel even easier to move away from the "level" concept once they start scaling more areas. Makes you wonder if eventually (if it all meshes well), they will do away with "levels" completely...rewarding skill points instead of experience, or stuff like that.

I think what we'll probably end up doing in the short run is start to refer to characters in "tiers". I'm tier X because I can wear tier X gear. sort of like how later in WoW people started referring to gearsets in tiers. you could be 50 pts into that tier, but your still t5..or whatever.

NewBlacksmurf

temjiu wrote: »

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Because the people that want instant gratification seem to be winning.
So logical next step is instant max character.
I certainly am not a hater of this game, just lazy people.

There's no reason for them to do this.

I have a feeling that once they get rid of VR ranks that it's going to be a lot easier to reach max level. they want people to play the new DLC even if they aren't max level and have PVE battle leveling now for the new zone and dungeons. Why would they encourage people to play that kind of content when they aren't max level? If they were setting things up for selling max level characters wouldn't they have done the opposite? Wouldn't they have gated the content and raised the VR cap again?

It's actually interesting that you bring up the concept of max "level". Is it really max level? To be honest, this is just throwing ideas around, but since CP impacts a lvl 1 as much as a max "level" toon, can we call it max level? Im level 500! woot!

It does have a fun feel to it , But I sort of see CP as a threshold. you hit 50, levels no longer exist. It will probably feel even easier to move away from the "level" concept once they start scaling more areas. Makes you wonder if eventually (if it all meshes well), they will do away with "levels" completely...rewarding skill points instead of experience, or stuff like that.

Insightful but....everything skill wise is based on 1-50
Now stats and skill points don't buy the abilities and crafting, etc.

I'm not suggesting to add in CP either. Just that if you're going to remove a problem....ZOS just should remove VR and stop there. I do like thinking about levels not really meaning anything but the reality is levels 1-50 are so important as they open up the character and that is far more important that a CP passive that after 500 or so the % to change is so small that it's not even noticeable

Peel_Ya_Cap_517

Won't this just create even more disparity between the have's and have-not's? If you have to have max CP's to get the best gear, you are simply punishing those with lower CP's. They put in the same amount of time to get to VR16 (or whatever the equivalent will be) but will not have access to the "best gear", as you say.

Please just leave the system the way it is -- Everyone who has put in the hours to reach VR16 has the same opportunity to acquire the best gear. CP's is really just like an extra bonus.

Rust_in_Peace

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 wrote: »

Won't this just create even more disparity between the have's and have-not's?

Not necessarily. With the catch up system it will basically create a sort of horizontal progression system rather than a typical vertical one. By the end of each "season" ie; the time between when the CP caps are raised, if you're playing the game with any regularity you should have caught up to the minimum CP to equip certain gear. In the meantime the gear you're using will still be suitable to do any content out there. If the future of progression for this game is going to be anything like the current track record; old set bonuses will still be perfectly viable, but new ones open up new builds and possibilities.

Gidorick

Dominoid wrote: »

Also
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3thlqh/welcome_to_the_elder_scrolls_online_orsinium_aua/cx69emf

There will also be gear scaling and gear will require you to have X champion points. Better items will require more champion points.

I can't wait for these forums to be ablaze when this happens. if CP were not shared by all characters this might make sense... but since they are this makes NO sense... so a player can level one character to max CP then level another character to level 50 and suddenly that character can use all the same gear?

What a way to ruin end game progression.

Of course. making end-game progression character wide does make the game more alt-friendly. Level one character to max CP... then just level other characters to level 50 and they are just as capable as your maxed character.

Peel_Ya_Cap_517

Rust_in_Peace wrote: »

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 wrote: »

Won't this just create even more disparity between the have's and have-not's?

Not necessarily. With the catch up system it will basically create a sort of horizontal progression system rather than a typical vertical one. By the end of each "season" ie; the time between when the CP caps are raised, if you're playing the game with any regularity you should have caught up to the minimum CP to equip certain gear. In the meantime the gear you're using will still be suitable to do any content out there. If the future of progression for this game is going to be anything like the current track record; old set bonuses will still be perfectly viable, but new ones open up new builds and possibilities.

The fact that he said, "The best gear", is what concerns me..

If the CP cap is raised in conjunction with new DLC's (which I assume is what will happen) and the best gear is locked behind the purchase of such a DLC, the gap between players will only continue to grow.