"No, We are not raising the VR cap before we remove them."

Thybrinena

Bossdonut wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

WolfWarrior84 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I don't see why anyone would complain. The only effect it should have is that it will take less xp to start earning CPs.

They wont change if you can wear x armor or not, your abilities and attributes wont change.

I really don't see why anyone would complain.

i never like it when the start making the game easier to get to max level just because new people dont want to put in the work that the original players did to get to where they are at. this is an mmo they are time consuming if you dont want to or can not put the time into it to reach max level dont play. i dont know if that is what is happening here this statement is based off the last mmo i stopped playing when they basically made it where you can buy you way through the tiers and made where a brand new player is just as strong as someone that put the time and effort to get everything skill related for their characters. to me that is disrespectful slap in the face to your seasoned players

It takes almost the same amount of XP to go from level 1-v16 as it does to go from level 1-50 and 0-160 cp on your first character. VR removal is about alts.

I think there are more creative ways to encourage alts... and the CP system actually makes me feel like I'm wasting my time leveling an alt because they don't earn CPs when they're under level 50...

Takes like 5 seconds to hit 50

Video or it didn't happen.

nimander99

Bossdonut wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

WolfWarrior84 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I don't see why anyone would complain. The only effect it should have is that it will take less xp to start earning CPs.

They wont change if you can wear x armor or not, your abilities and attributes wont change.

I really don't see why anyone would complain.

i never like it when the start making the game easier to get to max level just because new people dont want to put in the work that the original players did to get to where they are at. this is an mmo they are time consuming if you dont want to or can not put the time into it to reach max level dont play. i dont know if that is what is happening here this statement is based off the last mmo i stopped playing when they basically made it where you can buy you way through the tiers and made where a brand new player is just as strong as someone that put the time and effort to get everything skill related for their characters. to me that is disrespectful slap in the face to your seasoned players

It takes almost the same amount of XP to go from level 1-v16 as it does to go from level 1-50 and 0-160 cp on your first character. VR removal is about alts.

I think there are more creative ways to encourage alts... and the CP system actually makes me feel like I'm wasting my time leveling an alt because they don't earn CPs when they're under level 50...

Takes like 5 seconds to hit 50

pshhh more like 1 second brah

Elsonso

Bossdonut wrote: »

Gidorick wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

WolfWarrior84 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I don't see why anyone would complain. The only effect it should have is that it will take less xp to start earning CPs.

They wont change if you can wear x armor or not, your abilities and attributes wont change.

I really don't see why anyone would complain.

i never like it when the start making the game easier to get to max level just because new people dont want to put in the work that the original players did to get to where they are at. this is an mmo they are time consuming if you dont want to or can not put the time into it to reach max level dont play. i dont know if that is what is happening here this statement is based off the last mmo i stopped playing when they basically made it where you can buy you way through the tiers and made where a brand new player is just as strong as someone that put the time and effort to get everything skill related for their characters. to me that is disrespectful slap in the face to your seasoned players

It takes almost the same amount of XP to go from level 1-v16 as it does to go from level 1-50 and 0-160 cp on your first character. VR removal is about alts.

I think there are more creative ways to encourage alts... and the CP system actually makes me feel like I'm wasting my time leveling an alt because they don't earn CPs when they're under level 50...

Takes like 5 seconds to hit 50

Yeah, but from 1 to just under 50 can take a lot longer.

Enodoc

WolfWarrior84 wrote: »

Lenikus wrote: »

Who in the heck resurrected this thread ?

it was me lol

And it was my fault, because people keep necroing this even older thread, which is now basically useless, and this is where I usually direct them

NewBlacksmurf

wayfarerx wrote: »

WolfWarrior84 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I don't see why anyone would complain. The only effect it should have is that it will take less xp to start earning CPs.

They wont change if you can wear x armor or not, your abilities and attributes wont change.

I really don't see why anyone would complain.

i never like it when the start making the game easier to get to max level just because new people dont want to put in the work that the original players did to get to where they are at. this is an mmo they are time consuming if you dont want to or can not put the time into it to reach max level dont play. i dont know if that is what is happening here this statement is based off the last mmo i stopped playing when they basically made it where you can buy you way through the tiers and made where a brand new player is just as strong as someone that put the time and effort to get everything skill related for their characters. to me that is disrespectful slap in the face to your seasoned players

It takes almost the same amount of XP to go from level 1-v16 as it does to go from level 1-50 and 0-160 cp on your first character. VR removal is about alts.

If your concept of this draws you to interpret removing VR levels is only for Alts, you're not in tune with the problems VR cause.

To identify a few that are most obvious
-all skill lines max at 50
-gear and materials as well as recipes, motif, etc don't align with level 50 so it causes miss alignments where silver and gold zones are no longer optional but required therefore using an artificial character level above 50 causes more confusion and more separation so what was considered end game for some continually changes and seperated is more and more.
-VR levels on NPCs is wrong as some groups of NPCs were created prior to CPs where others are after or had adjustments. Now on VR X NPC isn't similar to another VR X NPC of the same level.
-group finder tools began to work less and less a VR levels but forced a Vr16 scaling system in hopes of bringing characters together but non VR16 characters are often kicked or booted from grouping tool pugs.
-VR10-12 exp rates early on are drastically different per level compared to incremental changes when VR 14 and VR16 were added. Also the champion system didn't exist at first or exp scrolls so the so called (everyone should work as hard as I had to) concept or mindset does not apply as no one has a similar journey compared to when they began playing
-The VR system doesn't allow ZOS to advertise to bring players back because the VR levels would have to keep being increased thus further causing (see above)
-The VR was was initially suppose to offer content progression temporarily and later be removed but ZOS' poor implementation of the system ingrained these incorrectly and later identified this system was not working as intended

Lastly and most importantly.
It does no one any pleasure to have two post 50 character/account progression systems that don't really cause progression because one system aligns with one set of post 50 while another causes pre and post progression that further miss aligns the initial VR problems.


I've left out others....

wayfarerx

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

WolfWarrior84 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I don't see why anyone would complain. The only effect it should have is that it will take less xp to start earning CPs.

They wont change if you can wear x armor or not, your abilities and attributes wont change.

I really don't see why anyone would complain.

i never like it when the start making the game easier to get to max level just because new people dont want to put in the work that the original players did to get to where they are at. this is an mmo they are time consuming if you dont want to or can not put the time into it to reach max level dont play. i dont know if that is what is happening here this statement is based off the last mmo i stopped playing when they basically made it where you can buy you way through the tiers and made where a brand new player is just as strong as someone that put the time and effort to get everything skill related for their characters. to me that is disrespectful slap in the face to your seasoned players

It takes almost the same amount of XP to go from level 1-v16 as it does to go from level 1-50 and 0-160 cp on your first character. VR removal is about alts.

If your concept of this draws you to interpret removing VR levels is only for Alts, you're not in tune with the problems VR cause.

To identify a few that are most obvious
-all skill lines max at 50
-gear and materials as well as recipes, motif, etc don't align with level 50 so it causes miss alignments where silver and gold zones are no longer optional but required therefore using an artificial character level above 50 causes more confusion and more separation so what was considered end game for some continually changes and seperated is more and more.
-VR levels on NPCs is wrong as some groups of NPCs were created prior to CPs where others are after or had adjustments. Now on VR X NPC isn't similar to another VR X NPC of the same level.
-group finder tools began to work less and less a VR levels but forced a Vr16 scaling system in hopes of bringing characters together but non VR16 characters are often kicked or booted from grouping tool pugs.
-VR10-12 exp rates early on are drastically different per level compared to incremental changes when VR 14 and VR16 were added. Also the champion system didn't exist at first or exp scrolls so the so called (everyone should work as hard as I had to) concept or mindset does not apply as no one has a similar journey compared to when they began playing
-The VR system doesn't allow ZOS to advertise to bring players back because the VR levels would have to keep being increased thus further causing (see above)
-The VR was was initially suppose to offer content progression temporarily and later be removed but ZOS' poor implementation of the system ingrained these incorrectly and later identified this system was not working as intended

Lastly and most importantly.
It does no one any pleasure to have two post 50 character/account progression systems that don't really cause progression because one system aligns with one set of post 50 while another causes pre and post progression that further miss aligns the initial VR problems.


I've left out others....

I'm aware of the vast number of issues with VR, trust me. I've just grown tired of trotting the whole list out every time someone says "new people dont want to put in the work" or some other such nonsense.

NewBlacksmurf

wayfarerx wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

WolfWarrior84 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I don't see why anyone would complain. The only effect it should have is that it will take less xp to start earning CPs.

They wont change if you can wear x armor or not, your abilities and attributes wont change.

I really don't see why anyone would complain.

i never like it when the start making the game easier to get to max level just because new people dont want to put in the work that the original players did to get to where they are at. this is an mmo they are time consuming if you dont want to or can not put the time into it to reach max level dont play. i dont know if that is what is happening here this statement is based off the last mmo i stopped playing when they basically made it where you can buy you way through the tiers and made where a brand new player is just as strong as someone that put the time and effort to get everything skill related for their characters. to me that is disrespectful slap in the face to your seasoned players

It takes almost the same amount of XP to go from level 1-v16 as it does to go from level 1-50 and 0-160 cp on your first character. VR removal is about alts.

If your concept of this draws you to interpret removing VR levels is only for Alts, you're not in tune with the problems VR cause.

To identify a few that are most obvious
-all skill lines max at 50
-gear and materials as well as recipes, motif, etc don't align with level 50 so it causes miss alignments where silver and gold zones are no longer optional but required therefore using an artificial character level above 50 causes more confusion and more separation so what was considered end game for some continually changes and seperated is more and more.
-VR levels on NPCs is wrong as some groups of NPCs were created prior to CPs where others are after or had adjustments. Now on VR X NPC isn't similar to another VR X NPC of the same level.
-group finder tools began to work less and less a VR levels but forced a Vr16 scaling system in hopes of bringing characters together but non VR16 characters are often kicked or booted from grouping tool pugs.
-VR10-12 exp rates early on are drastically different per level compared to incremental changes when VR 14 and VR16 were added. Also the champion system didn't exist at first or exp scrolls so the so called (everyone should work as hard as I had to) concept or mindset does not apply as no one has a similar journey compared to when they began playing
-The VR system doesn't allow ZOS to advertise to bring players back because the VR levels would have to keep being increased thus further causing (see above)
-The VR was was initially suppose to offer content progression temporarily and later be removed but ZOS' poor implementation of the system ingrained these incorrectly and later identified this system was not working as intended

Lastly and most importantly.
It does no one any pleasure to have two post 50 character/account progression systems that don't really cause progression because one system aligns with one set of post 50 while another causes pre and post progression that further miss aligns the initial VR problems.


I've left out others....

I'm aware of the vast number of issues with VR, trust me. I've just grown tired of trotting the whole list out every time someone says "new people dont want to put in the work" or some other such nonsense.

Cool then you realize your comment about the exp is circumstantial so while it may work one way for you, it won't work the same for another due to incremental changes before after and in the future CP and VR wise. One has to go....CP came to replace VR

wayfarerx

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

WolfWarrior84 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I don't see why anyone would complain. The only effect it should have is that it will take less xp to start earning CPs.

They wont change if you can wear x armor or not, your abilities and attributes wont change.

I really don't see why anyone would complain.

i never like it when the start making the game easier to get to max level just because new people dont want to put in the work that the original players did to get to where they are at. this is an mmo they are time consuming if you dont want to or can not put the time into it to reach max level dont play. i dont know if that is what is happening here this statement is based off the last mmo i stopped playing when they basically made it where you can buy you way through the tiers and made where a brand new player is just as strong as someone that put the time and effort to get everything skill related for their characters. to me that is disrespectful slap in the face to your seasoned players

It takes almost the same amount of XP to go from level 1-v16 as it does to go from level 1-50 and 0-160 cp on your first character. VR removal is about alts.

If your concept of this draws you to interpret removing VR levels is only for Alts, you're not in tune with the problems VR cause.

To identify a few that are most obvious
-all skill lines max at 50
-gear and materials as well as recipes, motif, etc don't align with level 50 so it causes miss alignments where silver and gold zones are no longer optional but required therefore using an artificial character level above 50 causes more confusion and more separation so what was considered end game for some continually changes and seperated is more and more.
-VR levels on NPCs is wrong as some groups of NPCs were created prior to CPs where others are after or had adjustments. Now on VR X NPC isn't similar to another VR X NPC of the same level.
-group finder tools began to work less and less a VR levels but forced a Vr16 scaling system in hopes of bringing characters together but non VR16 characters are often kicked or booted from grouping tool pugs.
-VR10-12 exp rates early on are drastically different per level compared to incremental changes when VR 14 and VR16 were added. Also the champion system didn't exist at first or exp scrolls so the so called (everyone should work as hard as I had to) concept or mindset does not apply as no one has a similar journey compared to when they began playing
-The VR system doesn't allow ZOS to advertise to bring players back because the VR levels would have to keep being increased thus further causing (see above)
-The VR was was initially suppose to offer content progression temporarily and later be removed but ZOS' poor implementation of the system ingrained these incorrectly and later identified this system was not working as intended

Lastly and most importantly.
It does no one any pleasure to have two post 50 character/account progression systems that don't really cause progression because one system aligns with one set of post 50 while another causes pre and post progression that further miss aligns the initial VR problems.


I've left out others....

I'm aware of the vast number of issues with VR, trust me. I've just grown tired of trotting the whole list out every time someone says "new people dont want to put in the work" or some other such nonsense.

Cool then you realize your comment about the exp is circumstantial so while it may work one way for you, it won't work the same for another due to incremental changes before after and in the future CP and VR wise. One has to go....CP came to replace VR

When vr 14 was the max rank it took 13 million xp to go from level 50 to the gear cap (v14).

When vr 16 came along it was reduced to a little under 13 million xp to go from level 50 to the gear cap (v16).

When veteran ranks are removed it will take a little more than 16 million XP to go from level 50 to the gear cap (cp160) assuming they don't make any changes to the catch-up system when they raise the CP cap. I expect that they will nudge the catch-up calculations to make them scale to the new CP cap and I expect we'll see it take closer to 13 million xp to reach the gear cap. Over time as the CP cap and gear cap are raised I would expect to see the same pattern hold.

The point I was trying to make was that any path from 50 to whatever gear cap there is takes about the same amount of XP as the others. ZOS appears to have settled around 13 million XP as the sweet spot for what it should take to hit the gear cap on a fresh level 50. There are of course situational nuances with regard to enlightenment and alterations to the catch-up mechanic or the CP cap or whatever, but in general the amount of effort will be roughly equivalent regardless of what end-game progression system we're talking about. Therefore, the statement that they are "making the game easier to get to max level" is inaccurate.

NewBlacksmurf

wayfarerx wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

WolfWarrior84 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I don't see why anyone would complain. The only effect it should have is that it will take less xp to start earning CPs.

They wont change if you can wear x armor or not, your abilities and attributes wont change.

I really don't see why anyone would complain.

i never like it when the start making the game easier to get to max level just because new people dont want to put in the work that the original players did to get to where they are at. this is an mmo they are time consuming if you dont want to or can not put the time into it to reach max level dont play. i dont know if that is what is happening here this statement is based off the last mmo i stopped playing when they basically made it where you can buy you way through the tiers and made where a brand new player is just as strong as someone that put the time and effort to get everything skill related for their characters. to me that is disrespectful slap in the face to your seasoned players

It takes almost the same amount of XP to go from level 1-v16 as it does to go from level 1-50 and 0-160 cp on your first character. VR removal is about alts.

If your concept of this draws you to interpret removing VR levels is only for Alts, you're not in tune with the problems VR cause.

To identify a few that are most obvious
-all skill lines max at 50
-gear and materials as well as recipes, motif, etc don't align with level 50 so it causes miss alignments where silver and gold zones are no longer optional but required therefore using an artificial character level above 50 causes more confusion and more separation so what was considered end game for some continually changes and seperated is more and more.
-VR levels on NPCs is wrong as some groups of NPCs were created prior to CPs where others are after or had adjustments. Now on VR X NPC isn't similar to another VR X NPC of the same level.
-group finder tools began to work less and less a VR levels but forced a Vr16 scaling system in hopes of bringing characters together but non VR16 characters are often kicked or booted from grouping tool pugs.
-VR10-12 exp rates early on are drastically different per level compared to incremental changes when VR 14 and VR16 were added. Also the champion system didn't exist at first or exp scrolls so the so called (everyone should work as hard as I had to) concept or mindset does not apply as no one has a similar journey compared to when they began playing
-The VR system doesn't allow ZOS to advertise to bring players back because the VR levels would have to keep being increased thus further causing (see above)
-The VR was was initially suppose to offer content progression temporarily and later be removed but ZOS' poor implementation of the system ingrained these incorrectly and later identified this system was not working as intended

Lastly and most importantly.
It does no one any pleasure to have two post 50 character/account progression systems that don't really cause progression because one system aligns with one set of post 50 while another causes pre and post progression that further miss aligns the initial VR problems.


I've left out others....

I'm aware of the vast number of issues with VR, trust me. I've just grown tired of trotting the whole list out every time someone says "new people dont want to put in the work" or some other such nonsense.

Cool then you realize your comment about the exp is circumstantial so while it may work one way for you, it won't work the same for another due to incremental changes before after and in the future CP and VR wise. One has to go....CP came to replace VR

When vr 14 was the max rank it took 13 million xp to go from level 50 to the gear cap (v14).

When vr 16 came along it was reduced to a little under 13 million xp to go from level 50 to the gear cap (v16).

When veteran ranks are removed it will take a little more than 16 million XP to go from level 50 to the gear cap (cp160) assuming they don't make any changes to the catch-up system when they raise the CP cap. I expect that they will nudge the catch-up calculations to make them scale to the new CP cap and I expect we'll see it take closer to 13 million xp to reach the gear cap. Over time as the CP cap and gear cap are raised I would expect to see the same pattern hold.

The point I was trying to make was that any path from 50 to whatever gear cap there is takes about the same amount of XP as the others. ZOS appears to have settled around 13 million XP as the sweet spot for what it should take to hit the gear cap on a fresh level 50. There are of course situational nuances with regard to enlightenment and alterations to the catch-up mechanic or the CP cap or whatever, but in general the amount of effort will be roughly equivalent regardless of what end-game progression system we're talking about. Therefore, the statement that they are "making the game easier to get to max level" is inaccurate.

But that is only specific to what you and some others consider as their "max".

Also Depending on when you started which seems later than launch if your path to the "max" was based on reaching VR14 .....realize that a lot changed prior.

For me I quit at VR2 in April after PC launch and made Alts.

Are you aware of the changes because the amount of exp is subjective and based on the amount of exp you could earn which drastically differs from then to now and the content by which or other speed up means or grinds that are and aren't there anymore.

So I'm trying to point out to you that while the number in certain respects mathmatically suggests the difference is similar, the process and rate of progress are drastically different and will continue to be different

lots of edits
***freaking typos on iPhome****

wayfarerx

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

WolfWarrior84 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I don't see why anyone would complain. The only effect it should have is that it will take less xp to start earning CPs.

They wont change if you can wear x armor or not, your abilities and attributes wont change.

I really don't see why anyone would complain.

i never like it when the start making the game easier to get to max level just because new people dont want to put in the work that the original players did to get to where they are at. this is an mmo they are time consuming if you dont want to or can not put the time into it to reach max level dont play. i dont know if that is what is happening here this statement is based off the last mmo i stopped playing when they basically made it where you can buy you way through the tiers and made where a brand new player is just as strong as someone that put the time and effort to get everything skill related for their characters. to me that is disrespectful slap in the face to your seasoned players

It takes almost the same amount of XP to go from level 1-v16 as it does to go from level 1-50 and 0-160 cp on your first character. VR removal is about alts.

If your concept of this draws you to interpret removing VR levels is only for Alts, you're not in tune with the problems VR cause.

To identify a few that are most obvious
-all skill lines max at 50
-gear and materials as well as recipes, motif, etc don't align with level 50 so it causes miss alignments where silver and gold zones are no longer optional but required therefore using an artificial character level above 50 causes more confusion and more separation so what was considered end game for some continually changes and seperated is more and more.
-VR levels on NPCs is wrong as some groups of NPCs were created prior to CPs where others are after or had adjustments. Now on VR X NPC isn't similar to another VR X NPC of the same level.
-group finder tools began to work less and less a VR levels but forced a Vr16 scaling system in hopes of bringing characters together but non VR16 characters are often kicked or booted from grouping tool pugs.
-VR10-12 exp rates early on are drastically different per level compared to incremental changes when VR 14 and VR16 were added. Also the champion system didn't exist at first or exp scrolls so the so called (everyone should work as hard as I had to) concept or mindset does not apply as no one has a similar journey compared to when they began playing
-The VR system doesn't allow ZOS to advertise to bring players back because the VR levels would have to keep being increased thus further causing (see above)
-The VR was was initially suppose to offer content progression temporarily and later be removed but ZOS' poor implementation of the system ingrained these incorrectly and later identified this system was not working as intended

Lastly and most importantly.
It does no one any pleasure to have two post 50 character/account progression systems that don't really cause progression because one system aligns with one set of post 50 while another causes pre and post progression that further miss aligns the initial VR problems.


I've left out others....

I'm aware of the vast number of issues with VR, trust me. I've just grown tired of trotting the whole list out every time someone says "new people dont want to put in the work" or some other such nonsense.

Cool then you realize your comment about the exp is circumstantial so while it may work one way for you, it won't work the same for another due to incremental changes before after and in the future CP and VR wise. One has to go....CP came to replace VR

When vr 14 was the max rank it took 13 million xp to go from level 50 to the gear cap (v14).

When vr 16 came along it was reduced to a little under 13 million xp to go from level 50 to the gear cap (v16).

When veteran ranks are removed it will take a little more than 16 million XP to go from level 50 to the gear cap (cp160) assuming they don't make any changes to the catch-up system when they raise the CP cap. I expect that they will nudge the catch-up calculations to make them scale to the new CP cap and I expect we'll see it take closer to 13 million xp to reach the gear cap. Over time as the CP cap and gear cap are raised I would expect to see the same pattern hold.

The point I was trying to make was that any path from 50 to whatever gear cap there is takes about the same amount of XP as the others. ZOS appears to have settled around 13 million XP as the sweet spot for what it should take to hit the gear cap on a fresh level 50. There are of course situational nuances with regard to enlightenment and alterations to the catch-up mechanic or the CP cap or whatever, but in general the amount of effort will be roughly equivalent regardless of what end-game progression system we're talking about. Therefore, the statement that they are "making the game easier to get to max level" is inaccurate.

But that only specific to what you and some other consider important or the "max".

Depending on when you started which seems later than launch of your path to "max" was VR14 then a lot changed prior.

For me I quit at VR2 in April after PC launch because the amount of exp is subjective and based on the amount of exp you could earn which drastically differs.

So I'm trying to point out to you that while the number in certain respects math
Stoically suggests the difference is similar, the process and rate of progress are drastically different and will continue to be different

I've been here since launch, I just left out comparisons to earlier vet progression systems because then you start to get into vet points instead of experience points and drawing direct comparisons is much more difficult. I'm not making any far-reaching statements about the nature of end-game progression or subjective rates for earning XP or anything else, I'm just saying that the statement "they are making the game easier to get to max level" is inaccurate.

NewBlacksmurf

wayfarerx wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

WolfWarrior84 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I don't see why anyone would complain. The only effect it should have is that it will take less xp to start earning CPs.

They wont change if you can wear x armor or not, your abilities and attributes wont change.

I really don't see why anyone would complain.

i never like it when the start making the game easier to get to max level just because new people dont want to put in the work that the original players did to get to where they are at. this is an mmo they are time consuming if you dont want to or can not put the time into it to reach max level dont play. i dont know if that is what is happening here this statement is based off the last mmo i stopped playing when they basically made it where you can buy you way through the tiers and made where a brand new player is just as strong as someone that put the time and effort to get everything skill related for their characters. to me that is disrespectful slap in the face to your seasoned players

It takes almost the same amount of XP to go from level 1-v16 as it does to go from level 1-50 and 0-160 cp on your first character. VR removal is about alts.

If your concept of this draws you to interpret removing VR levels is only for Alts, you're not in tune with the problems VR cause.

To identify a few that are most obvious
-all skill lines max at 50
-gear and materials as well as recipes, motif, etc don't align with level 50 so it causes miss alignments where silver and gold zones are no longer optional but required therefore using an artificial character level above 50 causes more confusion and more separation so what was considered end game for some continually changes and seperated is more and more.
-VR levels on NPCs is wrong as some groups of NPCs were created prior to CPs where others are after or had adjustments. Now on VR X NPC isn't similar to another VR X NPC of the same level.
-group finder tools began to work less and less a VR levels but forced a Vr16 scaling system in hopes of bringing characters together but non VR16 characters are often kicked or booted from grouping tool pugs.
-VR10-12 exp rates early on are drastically different per level compared to incremental changes when VR 14 and VR16 were added. Also the champion system didn't exist at first or exp scrolls so the so called (everyone should work as hard as I had to) concept or mindset does not apply as no one has a similar journey compared to when they began playing
-The VR system doesn't allow ZOS to advertise to bring players back because the VR levels would have to keep being increased thus further causing (see above)
-The VR was was initially suppose to offer content progression temporarily and later be removed but ZOS' poor implementation of the system ingrained these incorrectly and later identified this system was not working as intended

Lastly and most importantly.
It does no one any pleasure to have two post 50 character/account progression systems that don't really cause progression because one system aligns with one set of post 50 while another causes pre and post progression that further miss aligns the initial VR problems.


I've left out others....

I'm aware of the vast number of issues with VR, trust me. I've just grown tired of trotting the whole list out every time someone says "new people dont want to put in the work" or some other such nonsense.

Cool then you realize your comment about the exp is circumstantial so while it may work one way for you, it won't work the same for another due to incremental changes before after and in the future CP and VR wise. One has to go....CP came to replace VR

When vr 14 was the max rank it took 13 million xp to go from level 50 to the gear cap (v14).

When vr 16 came along it was reduced to a little under 13 million xp to go from level 50 to the gear cap (v16).

When veteran ranks are removed it will take a little more than 16 million XP to go from level 50 to the gear cap (cp160) assuming they don't make any changes to the catch-up system when they raise the CP cap. I expect that they will nudge the catch-up calculations to make them scale to the new CP cap and I expect we'll see it take closer to 13 million xp to reach the gear cap. Over time as the CP cap and gear cap are raised I would expect to see the same pattern hold.

The point I was trying to make was that any path from 50 to whatever gear cap there is takes about the same amount of XP as the others. ZOS appears to have settled around 13 million XP as the sweet spot for what it should take to hit the gear cap on a fresh level 50. There are of course situational nuances with regard to enlightenment and alterations to the catch-up mechanic or the CP cap or whatever, but in general the amount of effort will be roughly equivalent regardless of what end-game progression system we're talking about. Therefore, the statement that they are "making the game easier to get to max level" is inaccurate.

But that only specific to what you and some other consider important or the "max".

Depending on when you started which seems later than launch of your path to "max" was VR14 then a lot changed prior.

For me I quit at VR2 in April after PC launch because the amount of exp is subjective and based on the amount of exp you could earn which drastically differs.

So I'm trying to point out to you that while the number in certain respects math
Stoically suggests the difference is similar, the process and rate of progress are drastically different and will continue to be different

I've been here since launch, I just left out comparisons to earlier vet progression systems because then you start to get into vet points instead of experience points and drawing direct comparisons is much more difficult. I'm not making any far-reaching statements about the nature of end-game progression or subjective rates for earning XP or anything else, I'm just saying that the statement "they are making the game easier to get to max level" is inaccurate.

I follow but I'm identifying that youre innacurate.
Intentionally it's a lot easier, and takes less time to reach what you consider "max" when comparing launch to now.


When I moved to Xbox one from PC, I rolled a brand new alt and with ESO Plus, exp scrolls, CP and Craglorn the actual time played, the path and options to go from 1-VR14 or even 49-VR14 was a lot shorter in all comparisons other than meaningless exp amounts.

I just rolled a new alt and even without exp scrolls, without using CPs, it's still faster. And will continue to get faster after the next DLC.

Some progressions still take time but basing what you call "max" which reads as a character level designation and CP...you're statement is not correct as written.

Sorry

wayfarerx

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

WolfWarrior84 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I don't see why anyone would complain. The only effect it should have is that it will take less xp to start earning CPs.

They wont change if you can wear x armor or not, your abilities and attributes wont change.

I really don't see why anyone would complain.

i never like it when the start making the game easier to get to max level just because new people dont want to put in the work that the original players did to get to where they are at. this is an mmo they are time consuming if you dont want to or can not put the time into it to reach max level dont play. i dont know if that is what is happening here this statement is based off the last mmo i stopped playing when they basically made it where you can buy you way through the tiers and made where a brand new player is just as strong as someone that put the time and effort to get everything skill related for their characters. to me that is disrespectful slap in the face to your seasoned players

It takes almost the same amount of XP to go from level 1-v16 as it does to go from level 1-50 and 0-160 cp on your first character. VR removal is about alts.

If your concept of this draws you to interpret removing VR levels is only for Alts, you're not in tune with the problems VR cause.

To identify a few that are most obvious
-all skill lines max at 50
-gear and materials as well as recipes, motif, etc don't align with level 50 so it causes miss alignments where silver and gold zones are no longer optional but required therefore using an artificial character level above 50 causes more confusion and more separation so what was considered end game for some continually changes and seperated is more and more.
-VR levels on NPCs is wrong as some groups of NPCs were created prior to CPs where others are after or had adjustments. Now on VR X NPC isn't similar to another VR X NPC of the same level.
-group finder tools began to work less and less a VR levels but forced a Vr16 scaling system in hopes of bringing characters together but non VR16 characters are often kicked or booted from grouping tool pugs.
-VR10-12 exp rates early on are drastically different per level compared to incremental changes when VR 14 and VR16 were added. Also the champion system didn't exist at first or exp scrolls so the so called (everyone should work as hard as I had to) concept or mindset does not apply as no one has a similar journey compared to when they began playing
-The VR system doesn't allow ZOS to advertise to bring players back because the VR levels would have to keep being increased thus further causing (see above)
-The VR was was initially suppose to offer content progression temporarily and later be removed but ZOS' poor implementation of the system ingrained these incorrectly and later identified this system was not working as intended

Lastly and most importantly.
It does no one any pleasure to have two post 50 character/account progression systems that don't really cause progression because one system aligns with one set of post 50 while another causes pre and post progression that further miss aligns the initial VR problems.


I've left out others....

I'm aware of the vast number of issues with VR, trust me. I've just grown tired of trotting the whole list out every time someone says "new people dont want to put in the work" or some other such nonsense.

Cool then you realize your comment about the exp is circumstantial so while it may work one way for you, it won't work the same for another due to incremental changes before after and in the future CP and VR wise. One has to go....CP came to replace VR

When vr 14 was the max rank it took 13 million xp to go from level 50 to the gear cap (v14).

When vr 16 came along it was reduced to a little under 13 million xp to go from level 50 to the gear cap (v16).

When veteran ranks are removed it will take a little more than 16 million XP to go from level 50 to the gear cap (cp160) assuming they don't make any changes to the catch-up system when they raise the CP cap. I expect that they will nudge the catch-up calculations to make them scale to the new CP cap and I expect we'll see it take closer to 13 million xp to reach the gear cap. Over time as the CP cap and gear cap are raised I would expect to see the same pattern hold.

The point I was trying to make was that any path from 50 to whatever gear cap there is takes about the same amount of XP as the others. ZOS appears to have settled around 13 million XP as the sweet spot for what it should take to hit the gear cap on a fresh level 50. There are of course situational nuances with regard to enlightenment and alterations to the catch-up mechanic or the CP cap or whatever, but in general the amount of effort will be roughly equivalent regardless of what end-game progression system we're talking about. Therefore, the statement that they are "making the game easier to get to max level" is inaccurate.

But that only specific to what you and some other consider important or the "max".

Depending on when you started which seems later than launch of your path to "max" was VR14 then a lot changed prior.

For me I quit at VR2 in April after PC launch because the amount of exp is subjective and based on the amount of exp you could earn which drastically differs.

So I'm trying to point out to you that while the number in certain respects math
Stoically suggests the difference is similar, the process and rate of progress are drastically different and will continue to be different

I've been here since launch, I just left out comparisons to earlier vet progression systems because then you start to get into vet points instead of experience points and drawing direct comparisons is much more difficult. I'm not making any far-reaching statements about the nature of end-game progression or subjective rates for earning XP or anything else, I'm just saying that the statement "they are making the game easier to get to max level" is inaccurate.

I follow but I'm identifying that youre innacurate.
Intentionally it's a lot easier, and takes less time to reach what you consider "max" when comparing launch to now.


When I moved to Xbox one from PC, I rolled a brand new alt and with ESO Plus, exp scrolls, CP and Craglorn the actual time played, the path and options to go from 1-VR14 or even 49-VR14 was a lot shorter in all comparisons other than meaningless exp amounts.

I just rolled a new alt and even without exp scrolls, without using CPs, it's still faster. And will continue to get faster after the next DLC.

Some progressions still take time but basing what you call "max" which reads as a character level designation and CP...you're statement is not correct as written.

Sorry

Alrighty, here's my original comment you appear to have taken issue with:

wayfarerx wrote: »

It takes almost the same amount of XP to go from level 1-v16 as it does to go from level 1-50 and 0-160 cp on your first character. VR removal is about alts.

That's it. No comparisons with how hard it was at launch, or how it's faster with XP scrolls, or anything else. Just that the act of removing VR will not, in itself, make it easier to get to whatever "max" someone cares about.

Of course it's easier when you've played for awhile and know what you're doing, or know where the quest givers are, or know where the grind spots are, or use XP scrolls, or have your unemployed neighbor who plays your character while you're at work.

I contend that the singular act of removing VR will not materially affect the difficulty of moving through end game progression on your first character. If ZOS adds 500% XP boost scrolls to the crown store at the same time then, yes, that will make it easier. If you get a second account and level up some more characters then, yes, it will be easier because of your previous experience. If jobless Larry next door levels your character for you while you're at work then, yes, it will be easier. However, none of those things have anything to do with the removal of veteran ranks which will, in itself, not make the end-game progression of your first character any easier than it was before.

Prabooo

wayfarerx wrote: »

Prabooo wrote: »

People don't want veteran ranks... Everyone wants to be competitive for their "skills" yet they do not realize that being there first is a skill itself, no respect for elders... ironic, ELDER scrolls...

I've been here since beta and want VR gone, does that mean I have no self respect?

Do you really respect people that started playing a video game before you did?

Yes I do respect people that started playing ESO before I did, such as yourself. Just owning that damned Senche Tiger deserves awe and reverence.

NewBlacksmurf

wayfarerx wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

WolfWarrior84 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I don't see why anyone would complain. The only effect it should have is that it will take less xp to start earning CPs.

They wont change if you can wear x armor or not, your abilities and attributes wont change.

I really don't see why anyone would complain.

i never like it when the start making the game easier to get to max level just because new people dont want to put in the work that the original players did to get to where they are at. this is an mmo they are time consuming if you dont want to or can not put the time into it to reach max level dont play. i dont know if that is what is happening here this statement is based off the last mmo i stopped playing when they basically made it where you can buy you way through the tiers and made where a brand new player is just as strong as someone that put the time and effort to get everything skill related for their characters. to me that is disrespectful slap in the face to your seasoned players

It takes almost the same amount of XP to go from level 1-v16 as it does to go from level 1-50 and 0-160 cp on your first character. VR removal is about alts.

If your concept of this draws you to interpret removing VR levels is only for Alts, you're not in tune with the problems VR cause.

To identify a few that are most obvious
-all skill lines max at 50
-gear and materials as well as recipes, motif, etc don't align with level 50 so it causes miss alignments where silver and gold zones are no longer optional but required therefore using an artificial character level above 50 causes more confusion and more separation so what was considered end game for some continually changes and seperated is more and more.
-VR levels on NPCs is wrong as some groups of NPCs were created prior to CPs where others are after or had adjustments. Now on VR X NPC isn't similar to another VR X NPC of the same level.
-group finder tools began to work less and less a VR levels but forced a Vr16 scaling system in hopes of bringing characters together but non VR16 characters are often kicked or booted from grouping tool pugs.
-VR10-12 exp rates early on are drastically different per level compared to incremental changes when VR 14 and VR16 were added. Also the champion system didn't exist at first or exp scrolls so the so called (everyone should work as hard as I had to) concept or mindset does not apply as no one has a similar journey compared to when they began playing
-The VR system doesn't allow ZOS to advertise to bring players back because the VR levels would have to keep being increased thus further causing (see above)
-The VR was was initially suppose to offer content progression temporarily and later be removed but ZOS' poor implementation of the system ingrained these incorrectly and later identified this system was not working as intended

Lastly and most importantly.
It does no one any pleasure to have two post 50 character/account progression systems that don't really cause progression because one system aligns with one set of post 50 while another causes pre and post progression that further miss aligns the initial VR problems.


I've left out others....

I'm aware of the vast number of issues with VR, trust me. I've just grown tired of trotting the whole list out every time someone says "new people dont want to put in the work" or some other such nonsense.

Cool then you realize your comment about the exp is circumstantial so while it may work one way for you, it won't work the same for another due to incremental changes before after and in the future CP and VR wise. One has to go....CP came to replace VR

When vr 14 was the max rank it took 13 million xp to go from level 50 to the gear cap (v14).

When vr 16 came along it was reduced to a little under 13 million xp to go from level 50 to the gear cap (v16).

When veteran ranks are removed it will take a little more than 16 million XP to go from level 50 to the gear cap (cp160) assuming they don't make any changes to the catch-up system when they raise the CP cap. I expect that they will nudge the catch-up calculations to make them scale to the new CP cap and I expect we'll see it take closer to 13 million xp to reach the gear cap. Over time as the CP cap and gear cap are raised I would expect to see the same pattern hold.

The point I was trying to make was that any path from 50 to whatever gear cap there is takes about the same amount of XP as the others. ZOS appears to have settled around 13 million XP as the sweet spot for what it should take to hit the gear cap on a fresh level 50. There are of course situational nuances with regard to enlightenment and alterations to the catch-up mechanic or the CP cap or whatever, but in general the amount of effort will be roughly equivalent regardless of what end-game progression system we're talking about. Therefore, the statement that they are "making the game easier to get to max level" is inaccurate.

But that only specific to what you and some other consider important or the "max".

Depending on when you started which seems later than launch of your path to "max" was VR14 then a lot changed prior.

For me I quit at VR2 in April after PC launch because the amount of exp is subjective and based on the amount of exp you could earn which drastically differs.

So I'm trying to point out to you that while the number in certain respects math
Stoically suggests the difference is similar, the process and rate of progress are drastically different and will continue to be different

I've been here since launch, I just left out comparisons to earlier vet progression systems because then you start to get into vet points instead of experience points and drawing direct comparisons is much more difficult. I'm not making any far-reaching statements about the nature of end-game progression or subjective rates for earning XP or anything else, I'm just saying that the statement "they are making the game easier to get to max level" is inaccurate.

I follow but I'm identifying that youre innacurate.
Intentionally it's a lot easier, and takes less time to reach what you consider "max" when comparing launch to now.


When I moved to Xbox one from PC, I rolled a brand new alt and with ESO Plus, exp scrolls, CP and Craglorn the actual time played, the path and options to go from 1-VR14 or even 49-VR14 was a lot shorter in all comparisons other than meaningless exp amounts.

I just rolled a new alt and even without exp scrolls, without using CPs, it's still faster. And will continue to get faster after the next DLC.

Some progressions still take time but basing what you call "max" which reads as a character level designation and CP...you're statement is not correct as written.

Sorry

Alrighty, here's my original comment you appear to have taken issue with:

wayfarerx wrote: »

It takes almost the same amount of XP to go from level 1-v16 as it does to go from level 1-50 and 0-160 cp on your first character. VR removal is about alts.

That's it. No comparisons with how hard it was at launch, or how it's faster with XP scrolls, or anything else. Just that the act of removing VR will not, in itself, make it easier to get to whatever "max" someone cares about.

Of course it's easier when you've played for awhile and know what you're doing, or know where the quest givers are, or know where the grind spots are, or use XP scrolls, or have your unemployed neighbor who plays your character while you're at work.

I contend that the singular act of removing VR will not materially affect the difficulty of moving through end game progression on your first character. If ZOS adds 500% XP boost scrolls to the crown store at the same time then, yes, that will make it easier. If you get a second account and level up some more characters then, yes, it will be easier because of your previous experience. If jobless Larry next door levels your character for you while you're at work then, yes, it will be easier. However, none of those things have anything to do with the removal of veteran ranks which will, in itself, not make the end-game progression of your first character any easier than it was before.

My comments are specific to your quote.
Numbers don't mean anything until they are placed in context.

The exp numbers always related to the rate of possibilities to earn the exp.
you keep saying the exp amount hasn't changed based on the number but the rate of exp and multipliers, opportunities and ease to earn a higher rate faster regardless of if I'm retooling or if someone is brand new.

Point blank...it's a lot easier and even ZOS has pointed out....that's the intent.
I'm not sure why you're arguing at symantics as what matters is how to obtain the exp and at what rates.

All of what I wrote matters specific to your comment.
So as you write he amount of exp is the same...yes BUT the rate of gaining that same amount and methods have changed drastically and even 30 days from now will change drastically. Heck the random grouping tool gives 101k exp as a bonus for finishing one run not to mention how fast the queues are and even now cross faction manual dungeons that you can fast travel into.

Exp scrolls, removing silver n gold walls
It's not even a similar path it's so much shorter

Acsvf

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

My first vet character gained almost 60 CP by getting from vet 1 to vet 2.
I think the numbers could be changed around a bit.

aLi3nZ

As a V16 toon with 400 cp i am going to be given 40 ?

Inarre

I have no idea why people are qqing. This seems to me an overall positive change.

GlaceonGuy

I'm at VR4 with 120CP. So when this all changes, will I be able to use gear 8 levels above me?
...why...?

Also I'll reinstate the point I've made before. Removing VR removes any substantial progression past 50 once the CP cap is hit. It gives so much less incentive to do gold and silver that they might as well not even exist, and it doesn't help balance anything (Just FYI, champion points are the reason low levelled players can't Cyrodiil, not VR).

Sunburnt_Penguin

Genomic wrote: »

I'm sure they've gone over the stats regarding how many people were quitting when they hit VR levels. What was driving people away though wasn't VR levels per-se, it was the horrible treadmill placeholder associated with VR levels that is Silver/Gold, so I hope they've taken this into consideration.

Yeah I've recently hit Veteran - and by no means do I plan on quitting any time soon - but it was hard and tedious enough getting to V2 due to the quests in Cadwell's Silver. On the other hand, I can't be bothered grinding for 2 hours just for one Rank.

There needs to be some more enjoyable yet comparably rewarding way (as it should take time & work) in levelling up because at the moment it's just a drag. I enjoy PvP but the Exp is just so minimal even when doing quests.

NewBlacksmurf

GlaceonGuy wrote: »

I'm at VR4 with 120CP. So when this all changes, will I be able to use gear 8 levels above me?
...why...?

Also I'll reinstate the point I've made before. Removing VR removes any substantial progression past 50 once the CP cap is hit. It gives so much less incentive to do gold and silver that they might as well not even exist, and it doesn't help balance anything (Just FYI, champion points are the reason low levelled players can't Cyrodiil, not VR).

That's the whole point. Removing something that shouldn't exist to later be addressed in detail

skavenapsb16_ESO

Gosh, 11 pages full of negativity, insults, trolling, and so.. This forum is so toxic.

I like what your proposed @ZOS_RichLambert

Looking forward to another great year.