"No, We are not raising the VR cap before we remove them."

Elijah_Crow

Xsorus wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Geemarc wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

I would however like to see the 1-50 leveling slowed a bit. I've heard of people being able to level from 1-50 in 48 hours. Do NOT go from one extreme to the other: From having a game that it takes more time than almost any other to get to Max Level, to the shortest time of any AAA MMO. Any character progression should be meaningful and because Champion Points are account bound.

And to that point, players have been allowed to use Champion Points on new characters to allow them to power through content. This sped things up and made it bearable for such a long ride to level cap. This should be removed. Champion Points should only be spendable on Level 50 Characters.

This will ensure challenge and enjoyment in leveling alts and when the character hits 50 they then can be just as powerful as someone's original character. This also takes care of the use of Champion Points in under NonVet Cyrodiil campaigns.

Thanks for following through with what has been promised for a long time.

You can level from 1-50 in 8 hours, quicker if you have a geared friend kill stuff with you in IC.

They might as well just give everyone max level alts when you hit 50 with this new system.

This needs to be addressed. I'm not saying make it a time sink. I'm saying it should be significant and meaningful.

Only it shouldn't be; Plenty of other content and growth available after 50, and honestly every MMO should learn you want to make Alts easier to make..More alts players can make the longer they play your game.

Not with 1 to 50 being 8 to 16 hours. Might as well start every character at 50.

The Uninvited

MrDerrikk wrote: »

SublimeSparo wrote: »

I don't understand this very well. I have a vr16 with approx 300CP
After conversion will I be L50 with
A ) 300CP still
B ) 10*16 + 40 = 200CP less
C ) 300 + (10*16 +40) 500CP more
D ) something else

It's a bit confusing but you'll have your original CP plus what you gain from your VR16 char conversion.

Thanks for clearing that up.

Jitterbug

Ariisen wrote: »

I don't like this new system...

The only problem I see with VR is that it takes waaay to much to get a alt from VR1 to VR16 (1-50 is okay).
A simpler solution IMHO would be:

Create a Level 1 Alt.
Complete the first five zones\Defeat Molag Bal
(Progression locked at level 50 if you don't)
You then get to VR1 and can access the other faction zones.

Have you completed Cadwell's Silver once?
Jump to VR5, get all skyshards and overall progress already done on the max level character.
Have you completed Cadwell's Gold once?
Jump to VR10, get all skyshards and overall progress already done on the max level character.

This would allow people who want to stop levelling their characters for whatever reason to stop before VR and would also give a proper reward for Cadwell's quests (now it's ridiculus..) while reducing the amount of time necessary to fully level an alt (and the amount of people complaining about it).

The new system might be okay but is it worth the work at all?

I get what you're saying, but I don't think they are doing this for us players. They are doing it for potential new players that pick the game up on sale on steam to try it out and get lost in the contrived system that is veteran ranks. A lot of us have been forum nerding for years on this game and even the most elaborate of changes and systems will go down quite easy with our level of understanding of the game. Any new player will have to make a forum account and ask WTH!? if the game's system is not transparent enough on it's own.
I believe this is one of probably many reasons they want to remove them.

To other things regarding gear I feel we are making a lot of problems out of nothing. Those of us that have vr16s will not even notice the new gear requirements and if it's a matter of 160 cp that will get grinded out much much faster for a new player than 16 veteran ranks with the catch up system.

I firmly believe this change will make it a lot easier for new players to descend on Nirn and make the whole road to end game a lot more transparent and easy to swallow.

terrordactyl1971

So this means that if you have a main that's V16 with 501 CP...

You can level 7 alt characters to level 50 and they will all be the equivalent of today's max levelled V16 501 CP?

zornyan

newtinmpls wrote: »

Additional Details: •We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)

***


So those peeps with multiple low-vet-level characters are going to get screwed

40 cp is about 4 days with the catch up mechanic, hardly screwed

zornyan

Geemarc wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

I would however like to see the 1-50 leveling slowed a bit. I've heard of people being able to level from 1-50 in 48 hours. Do NOT go from one extreme to the other: From having a game that it takes more time than almost any other to get to Max Level, to the shortest time of any AAA MMO. Any character progression should be meaningful and because Champion Points are account bound.

And to that point, players have been allowed to use Champion Points on new characters to allow them to power through content. This sped things up and made it bearable for such a long ride to level cap. This should be removed. Champion Points should only be spendable on Level 50 Characters.

This will ensure challenge and enjoyment in leveling alts and when the character hits 50 they then can be just as powerful as someone's original character. This also takes care of the use of Champion Points in under NonVet Cyrodiil campaigns.

Thanks for following through with what has been promised for a long time.

You can level from 1-50 in 8 hours, quicker if you have a geared friend kill stuff with you in IC.

They might as well just give everyone max level alts when you hit 50 with this new system.

Really in IC ? haven't tried my low levels there yet, didn't think xp would be good enough

zornyan

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

If CP restriction's on gear get's implemented im quitting this game.


So you place a CP cap to dial down the im-balance between player's who grind all day every day. Which was a good thing.

However requiring high cp to wear gear.... that's worse then Veteran Level's increasing for god's sake. I don't play this game often. I'm a console player and i have around 200 champion point's. I'm far from the CP cap. I don't plan on grinding PVE mob's to wear the new "best gear" that has been CP restricted, let alone even consider wasting my time grinding cp.

Zos..... common now.

The only way i can see this being acceptable in any shape or form would be to have daily's that grant some new type of currency. Call this new currency "Allegiance Point's". Let this have nothing to do with Champion Point's. Once a week you get a quest of some sort to collect X point's. These new set's will require these point's TO PURCHASE. Not required to wear them! Then player's could easily purchase these item's from guild trader's if they are like myself and don't have the time to play. However you need to actually sell different gear that you know.... cost's gold? Gear that is not far off from gear you can find/craft. This game need's a better economy. So many better option's then this... Hell you could sell the gear for million's of AP and make them BoE.


Area's in which you could distribute new gear:

-Public Dungeon's
-World Bosses
-Craglorn ( what's a craglorn boss for anyway )
-Trail's (which need to be fixed!)
-Undaunted (need's a currency system)
-Alliance Point's in Cryodil
-Telvar Stone's in Imperial City
-Maelstrom Arena (need's betting system)

However you need a good mix of gear that is BoE and equally powerful to any BoP set's.

Also why are we always fighting RNG? Add in a currency so we can buy the item's we want with a select few trait's. If you wan't a specific trait, you should be able to use a certain currency to improve your chance's on acquiring a specific item (wear applicable).

So many thing's in this MMO that are just terrible.

I KNOW PEOPLE WHO HAVE DONE 100'S OF UNDAUNTED PLEDGE'S AND STILL HAVE NOT GOTTEN A SINGLE HELMET!


Fix your drop table's.

Create new way's to acquire relevant gear.

PLEASE DO NOT CREATE NEW WAY'S TO RESTRICT CASUAL/NEWER PLAYER'S



For the people that think this is a good thing, every time the cp cap is increased there will be better gear and you will need to farm cp to wear it. That's pretty much the equivalent of having gear locked to your war alliance rank. So for people like me who only have maybe 4 hour's a week on eso, ill always be playing catch up with this CP restriction/Cap to wear whats new.

At this rate, i'd rather have increasing vet level's then grind to maintain high cp to be competitive.

Read this again

It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear

You won't need to grind CP, even better is when you make an alt and hit level 50 you won't need to grind 16 vr grinds, you'll instantly be able to equip you top level gear.

terrordactyl1971

What happens to the 16 attribute points and 16 skill points that you would have earned from VR1-VR16 ? If you level an alt to 50, how do you get these additional points?

Bashev

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

So this means that if you have a main that's V16 with 501 CP...

You can level 7 alt characters to level 50 and they will all be the equivalent of today's max levelled V16 501 CP?

Good point. I didnt think about that. But if this is the case then it will be nice. You lvl once to 50 then you share all the progress with all allts that you have

G0ku

It all depends on how they implement it. If you look at how they´ve handled and implemented things until now, well, everyone has his own opinion on that.

From what I´ve read until now it seems only the goal of the grind will change, not the grind itself. I just hope the new CP-scaling sets won´t be their stupid rng bop sets.

Xsorus

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

Geemarc wrote: »

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

I would however like to see the 1-50 leveling slowed a bit. I've heard of people being able to level from 1-50 in 48 hours. Do NOT go from one extreme to the other: From having a game that it takes more time than almost any other to get to Max Level, to the shortest time of any AAA MMO. Any character progression should be meaningful and because Champion Points are account bound.

And to that point, players have been allowed to use Champion Points on new characters to allow them to power through content. This sped things up and made it bearable for such a long ride to level cap. This should be removed. Champion Points should only be spendable on Level 50 Characters.

This will ensure challenge and enjoyment in leveling alts and when the character hits 50 they then can be just as powerful as someone's original character. This also takes care of the use of Champion Points in under NonVet Cyrodiil campaigns.

Thanks for following through with what has been promised for a long time.

You can level from 1-50 in 8 hours, quicker if you have a geared friend kill stuff with you in IC.

They might as well just give everyone max level alts when you hit 50 with this new system.

This needs to be addressed. I'm not saying make it a time sink. I'm saying it should be significant and meaningful.

Only it shouldn't be; Plenty of other content and growth available after 50, and honestly every MMO should learn you want to make Alts easier to make..More alts players can make the longer they play your game.

Not with 1 to 50 being 8 to 16 hours. Might as well start every character at 50.

Or don't, and just leave it how it is....SWTOR increased their leveling speed..and it ended up being good for that game...In fact over time pretty much all MMOs move to have their leveling speed increased because you want your player base to continue making alts. There is zero reason to slow down 1-50 when a vast majority of people already played through that content already.

dsalter

Dominoid wrote: »

Also
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3thlqh/welcome_to_the_elder_scrolls_online_orsinium_aua/cx69emf

There will also be gear scaling and gear will require you to have X champion points. Better items will require more champion points.

this will be enough to stop me wanting to craft. period.

Jura23

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

If CP restriction's on gear get's implemented im quitting this game.


So you place a CP cap to dial down the im-balance between player's who grind all day every day. Which was a good thing.

However requiring high cp to wear gear.... that's worse then Veteran Level's increasing for god's sake. I don't play this game often. I'm a console player and i have around 200 champion point's. I'm far from the CP cap. I don't plan on grinding PVE mob's to wear the new "best gear" that has been CP restricted, let alone even consider wasting my time grinding cp.

Zos..... common now.

The only way i can see this being acceptable in any shape or form would be to have daily's that grant some new type of currency. Call this new currency "Allegiance Point's". Let this have nothing to do with Champion Point's. Once a week you get a quest of some sort to collect X point's. These new set's will require these point's TO PURCHASE. Not required to wear them! Then player's could easily purchase these item's from guild trader's if they are like myself and don't have the time to play. However you need to actually sell different gear that you know.... cost's gold? Gear that is not far off from gear you can find/craft. This game need's a better economy. So many better option's then this... Hell you could sell the gear for million's of AP and make them BoE.


Area's in which you could distribute new gear:

-Public Dungeon's
-World Bosses
-Craglorn ( what's a craglorn boss for anyway )
-Trail's (which need to be fixed!)
-Undaunted (need's a currency system)
-Alliance Point's in Cryodil
-Telvar Stone's in Imperial City
-Maelstrom Arena (need's betting system)

However you need a good mix of gear that is BoE and equally powerful to any BoP set's.

Also why are we always fighting RNG? Add in a currency so we can buy the item's we want with a select few trait's. If you wan't a specific trait, you should be able to use a certain currency to improve your chance's on acquiring a specific item (wear applicable).

So many thing's in this MMO that are just terrible.

I KNOW PEOPLE WHO HAVE DONE 100'S OF UNDAUNTED PLEDGE'S AND STILL HAVE NOT GOTTEN A SINGLE HELMET!


Fix your drop table's.

Create new way's to acquire relevant gear.

PLEASE DO NOT CREATE NEW WAY'S TO RESTRICT CASUAL/NEWER PLAYER'S



For the people that think this is a good thing, every time the cp cap is increased there will be better gear and you will need to farm cp to wear it. That's pretty much the equivalent of having gear locked to your war alliance rank. So for people like me who only have maybe 4 hour's a week on eso, ill always be playing catch up with this CP restriction/Cap to wear whats new.

At this rate, i'd rather have increasing vet level's then grind to maintain high cp to be competitive.

Yep. I don't see how CP replacing VR puts less grind into the game. It will be actually more grindy than before.

Docmandu

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

If CP restriction's on gear get's implemented im quitting this game.

Yeah I'm REALLY NOT HAPPY about reading this too... unless this doesn't count for PVP.. or if the new gear isn't better stat wise than the old gear.. but it will most likely be.. hence more PvE grinding for us PvP players.

Enodoc

First of all I wanted to say thanks @ZOS_RichLambert for sharing the current design plan. The fact that it's still very much subject to change doesn't matter; it means we can now discuss this directly without relying on speculation and guesswork.

I wanted to comment on some points:

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.

Sounds good to me, that makes sense.

3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.

Didn't you do that already when CPs were introduced? Why are you doing it again?

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

VR1- VR5 NPCs would be represented as level 50 and bosses [ 51 ] and dungeon or elite bosses [ 51]
VR 6-VR10 is 52 , [ 53] and [ 53]
VR11-VR15 is 54, [ 55] and [55]
VR16 is 56, [56] and [56]

This wouldn't remove the implied order of content [ Silver > Gold > Craglorn > Cyrodiil ] which really needs to be removed; this would suggest that Craglorn was 54 and Cadwell's Silver was 50, implying that Cadwell's should be done first. All Veteran NPCs need to have a displayed Level 50 so that it is clear that the content can be done in any order.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

For attribute points, please do not attach them to CP. Instead just provide an additional attribute point at specific milestones. So every 5th level (5, 15, 25, 35, 45) you would gain an additional attribute point, and every 10th level (10, 20, 30, 40, 50) you get an additional 2 attribute points. This would total 64 since level 50 is the same as vet rank 1.

This is a nice idea, and grants all level-based attribute points and skill points within the 1-50 levelling curve. Specific numbers of CPs shouldn't be required to unlock things; CP already has its own boosters to attributes.

Gidorick wrote: »

Yea, if they're not doing level conversion this is the best way to do it. Otherwise players with a bundle of CPs will just a bundle of skill and attribute points once they hit level 50 on a new character... which is kind of silly.

Yeah, this would make no sense. If they're just going to be given 14 extra points straight away on hitting 50, you may as well spread them through the 1-50 process so that character has earned them. I thought for a minute that while total CPs were account-wide, each individual character's "Champion Rank" was separate, but it isn't

GaldorP wrote: »

New System: You get your first character to VR 5. As soon as your second character hits lv 50, that character is also VR 5. Just now it won't be called VR 5 anymore but Champion Rank xxx instead. You can play on any character that has reached level 50 to make all of your characters progress.

This is what I like most about the system. Each Veteran character can progress through the Veteran content in their own way, while contributing to an overall Champion Rank. Some characters would progress through PvP, some through Cadwell's, some through Craglorn, and (theoretically) none would be forced into doing all of it in a linear fashion. I just hope that the "first character" to get to Level 50 has the option of choosing something other than Cadwell's to start off with, and wouldn't feel directed to go through "Champion Ranks" 1-50 in Silver and "Champion Ranks" 51-100 in Gold in order to reach Craglorn and its "Champion Rank 101+" content. Content will need to be rebalanced so that everything is designed around an appropriate number of CPs.

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

As you progress through the new post 50 system you will be able to equip more and more powerful gear just as you have through Veteran Rank system. (Would you like to level through the equivalent content to be VR16 wearing level 50 gear?) Tying gear level to your Champion Rank makes perfect sense just as it did tying it to your Veteran Level.

GaldorP wrote: »

- All gear of non top VR materials would still have its use for new players who just reached lv 50 on their first character. So Calcinium, Galatite, Quicksilver, Voidsteel, Kresh Fiber, Ironthread, Silverweave, Void Cloth,Topgrain Hide, Iron Hide, Superb Hide, Shadowhide, Sanded Birch, Ash, Mahogany, and Nightwood don't need to be removed from the game.

Rhazmuz wrote: »

The only thing which should make me want to change/recraft gear should be more/new options, not simply because some number went up and I have to recraft the same stuff, only slightly better.

I'm torn on the CP requirement for gear. As @Elijah_Crow and @GaldorP say, it will keep the existing progression of gear, meaning that the stat differences and mats used will not become irrelevant. But as @Rhazmuz says, being required to recraft everything just because of an arbitrary number increase is not fun, and is one of the problems with VRs as they are right now.

SublimeSparo wrote: »

I don't understand this very well. I have a vr16 with approx 300CP
After conversion will I be L50 with
A ) 300CP still
B ) 10*16 + 40 = 200CP less
C ) 300 + (10*16 +40) 500CP more
D ) something else

@SublimeSparo If I understand the calculation correctly, you will have 340 CP after conversion (300 + (16 * 2.5)). The 10* is only if you currently have less than 10 times your VR.

A minor bit of confusion remains in that Rich said "any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10". I assume it's actually going to be "any player with CP less than [(their old veteran rank * 10) + 40] ... ", as otherwise, someone who is VR16 with 150 CPs would only get 160 total (due to being less than VR*10), instead of the 190 total that they would get from the +40 conversion.

Hexys wrote: »

Maybe they can make gear scale and level up with you, like you gained 200 cp while using the same gear all the time giving the gear some extra bonus as reward.

This is what is needed. As long as you weren't required to recraft for each CP bracket, tying gear to CPs would be reasonable. Even if it required an "upgrade" to bump the gear up, requiring the use of a few mats (but considerably less than a new item), that would be better than recrafting the whole thing from scratch. For example, instead of requiring 100 Rubedites to craft a new chest piece, you could use 10 Rubedites to upgrade your Voidsteel one.

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

So this means that if you have a main that's V16 with 501 CP...
You can level 7 alt characters to level 50 and they will all be the equivalent of today's max levelled V16 501 CP?

@terrordactyl1971 Yes, that appears to be the plan.

Elijah_Crow

Enodoc wrote: »

This is what is needed. As long as you weren't required to recraft for each CP bracket, tying gear to CPs would be reasonable. Even if it required an "upgrade" to bump the gear up, requiring the use of a few mats (but considerably less than a new item), that would be better than recrafting the whole thing from scratch. For example, instead of requiring 100 Rubedites to craft a new chest piece, you could use 10 Rubedites to upgrade your Voidsteel one.

I don't agree with this any more than I would agree with making all VR1 gear level up with you and never have to craft again once you reach VR1 all the way to VR16. If the gear increases are small and come only every 90 days, I'm not going to feel the need to re-craft every 90 days. After 2 DLC's and Two step ups (Like VR12 to VR14) I might decide to upgrade, but as long as the power jumps aren't as extreme as VR14 to VR16 then I won't be concerned.

JD2013

Good job getting rid of them Vet levels guys!

I knew this is what would happen. I even said as much. There's always going to be a levelling system in an MMO. If progress just stopped at 50, what would be the point of it? What would be the point of new content if you can just power through it?

So we've now gone from attaining vet levels for top gear (easy to get a vet level) to needing CP's for top gear etc. I bet you'll miss them Vet Levels pretty soon!

Bracteamentum

It has been said on many occasions, that changing the game back to non veteran will be a big project.
Meanwhile, it is easier to raise Veteran Level and make new content more challenging than leaving the players with basically the same stuff for months before they remove the Veteran Ranks completly.
This is an ongoing project and needs a lot of time because it will have a huge impact on game mechanics, Items, Dungeons and other content.

NewBlacksmurf

Enodoc wrote: »

First of all I wanted to say thanks @ZOS_RichLambert for sharing the current design plan. The fact that it's still very much subject to change doesn't matter; it means we can now discuss this directly without relying on speculation and guesswork.

I wanted to comment on some points:

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.

Sounds good to me, that makes sense.

3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.

Didn't you do that already when CPs were introduced? Why are you doing it again?

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

VR1- VR5 NPCs would be represented as level 50 and bosses [ 51 ] and dungeon or elite bosses [ 51]
VR 6-VR10 is 52 , [ 53] and [ 53]
VR11-VR15 is 54, [ 55] and [55]
VR16 is 56, [56] and [56]

This wouldn't remove the implied order of content [ Silver > Gold > Craglorn > Cyrodiil ] which really needs to be removed; this would suggest that Craglorn was 54 and Cadwell's Silver was 50, implying that Cadwell's should be done first. All Veteran NPCs need to have a displayed Level 50 so that it is clear that the content can be done in any order.

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

For attribute points, please do not attach them to CP. Instead just provide an additional attribute point at specific milestones. So every 5th level (5, 15, 25, 35, 45) you would gain an additional attribute point, and every 10th level (10, 20, 30, 40, 50) you get an additional 2 attribute points. This would total 64 since level 50 is the same as vet rank 1.

This is a nice idea, and grants all level-based attribute points and skill points within the 1-50 levelling curve. Specific numbers of CPs shouldn't be required to unlock things; CP already has its own boosters to attributes.

Gidorick wrote: »

Yea, if they're not doing level conversion this is the best way to do it. Otherwise players with a bundle of CPs will just a bundle of skill and attribute points once they hit level 50 on a new character... which is kind of silly.

Yeah, this would make no sense. If they're just going to be given 14 extra points straight away on hitting 50, you may as well spread them through the 1-50 process so that character has earned them. I thought for a minute that while total CPs were account-wide, each individual character's "Champion Rank" was separate, but it isn't

GaldorP wrote: »

New System: You get your first character to VR 5. As soon as your second character hits lv 50, that character is also VR 5. Just now it won't be called VR 5 anymore but Champion Rank xxx instead. You can play on any character that has reached level 50 to make all of your characters progress.

This is what I like most about the system. Each Veteran character can progress through the Veteran content in their own way, while contributing to an overall Champion Rank. Some characters would progress through PvP, some through Cadwell's, some through Craglorn, and (theoretically) none would be forced into doing all of it in a linear fashion. I just hope that the "first character" to get to Level 50 has the option of choosing something other than Cadwell's to start off with, and wouldn't feel directed to go through "Champion Ranks" 1-50 in Silver and "Champion Ranks" 51-100 in Gold in order to reach Craglorn and its "Champion Rank 101+" content. Content will need to be rebalanced so that everything is designed around an appropriate number of CPs.

Elijah_Crow wrote: »

As you progress through the new post 50 system you will be able to equip more and more powerful gear just as you have through Veteran Rank system. (Would you like to level through the equivalent content to be VR16 wearing level 50 gear?) Tying gear level to your Champion Rank makes perfect sense just as it did tying it to your Veteran Level.

GaldorP wrote: »

- All gear of non top VR materials would still have its use for new players who just reached lv 50 on their first character. So Calcinium, Galatite, Quicksilver, Voidsteel, Kresh Fiber, Ironthread, Silverweave, Void Cloth,Topgrain Hide, Iron Hide, Superb Hide, Shadowhide, Sanded Birch, Ash, Mahogany, and Nightwood don't need to be removed from the game.

Rhazmuz wrote: »

The only thing which should make me want to change/recraft gear should be more/new options, not simply because some number went up and I have to recraft the same stuff, only slightly better.

I'm torn on the CP requirement for gear. As @Elijah_Crow and @GaldorP say, it will keep the existing progression of gear, meaning that the stat differences and mats used will not become irrelevant. But as @Rhazmuz says, being required to recraft everything just because of an arbitrary number increase is not fun, and is one of the problems with VRs as they are right now.

SublimeSparo wrote: »

I don't understand this very well. I have a vr16 with approx 300CP
After conversion will I be L50 with
A ) 300CP still
B ) 10*16 + 40 = 200CP less
C ) 300 + (10*16 +40) 500CP more
D ) something else

@SublimeSparo If I understand the calculation correctly, you will have 340 CP after conversion (300 + (16 * 2.5)). The 10* is only if you currently have less than 10 times your VR.

A minor bit of confusion remains in that Rich said "any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10". I assume it's actually going to be "any player with CP less than [(their old veteran rank * 10) + 40] ... ", as otherwise, someone who is VR16 with 150 CPs would only get 160 total (due to being less than VR*10), instead of the 190 total that they would get from the +40 conversion.

Hexys wrote: »

Maybe they can make gear scale and level up with you, like you gained 200 cp while using the same gear all the time giving the gear some extra bonus as reward.

This is what is needed. As long as you weren't required to recraft for each CP bracket, tying gear to CPs would be reasonable. Even if it required an "upgrade" to bump the gear up, requiring the use of a few mats (but considerably less than a new item), that would be better than recrafting the whole thing from scratch. For example, instead of requiring 100 Rubedites to craft a new chest piece, you could use 10 Rubedites to upgrade your Voidsteel one.

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

So this means that if you have a main that's V16 with 501 CP...
You can level 7 alt characters to level 50 and they will all be the equivalent of today's max levelled V16 501 CP?

@terrordactyl1971 Yes, that appears to be the plan.

Just commenting on my quote
-I don't believe nor have I read anywhere that removing VR levels was to adjust the system around VR content so this wouldn't be changed. It only is adjusted to make logical sense after the VR indicators are removed from players and NPC's.

The main reason you would not place all NPC's at 50 is because there is a mat, item and gear progression that still applies and to easily indicate this the NPC's would vary in levels within 5 levels of the max base level. Any VR16 things would be 56 as that system doesn't magically go away by removing VR levels.

Now if ZOS was removing VR levels and VR content this would differ but that's not the case and as such, only numeric indicators are needed to replace the VR indicators but one level should not represent one VR because the 1-50 system doesn't work that way and so with No VR things should go back to normal

kupacmac

We're months away from this change and the amount of misplaced nerd rage is legendary in this thread.

I'm personally ecstatic about this change. No more having to grind 16 veteran levels on every new alt I level up. I switch between characters often and it thrills me to no end knowing that as I play one of them, the others are benefiting. It's brilliant. No other MMORPG that I know of allows all of your high level characters to benefit from just playing one. It's revolutionary in my book. No more treadmill on EVERY character, and it will be done without artificial boosting to a high level like we see in other games, which is idiotic to me.

THANK YOU ZOS!

Rune_Relic

@ZOS_RichLambert

I can clearly see the intent of what you are trying to do.
You want to replace VR1, VR2, VR3.... with CP 160-320, CP 320-480, CP 480-640...[Insert CP range of choice here].
Now obviously this is the easy replacement option which will no doubt work to replace VR system with CP system.

BUT this is the problem.
You assume people want a VET system in the 1st place.
This is where you will find very negative responses from the players in general.

I can only speak for myself obviously.
But I for one am tired of the Grind for gear, Gear race of tiered levels.
Its fine when you are defining your character through the 1-50 process.
Beyond 50 for me it should have been about specialisation rather than power.
ie, 100s of unique gear options which only really work on or enhance kindred unique hybrids developed from 1-50.

That doesn't sound very clear does it ?... OK.
1-50 you define your hybrid character strengths and weaknesses (Power).
50+ you an enhance those strengths with CP options and "matched" gear (Versatility).
Only 1 out of 100s of gear options will suit your hybrid perfectly.
[This requires that any build can nullify the strengths of a different build through proper balancing]
This allows you to tinker for ever trying to find the sweet spot of combinations for your hybrid.
It is an endless endeavour as you will only be able to get closer and closer to perfecting you own play style.

Can you see the difference between the two ideologies ?
1. Compulsory grind for power ...even if it is bounded by a lower and upper limit...using "best" gear (meaning all other gear is obsolete).
2. Endless "optional" grind to optimise your own "unique" playstyle/character at your leisure. Building your own "unique" identity within the game....that is still viable regardless.

You can not use the phrase 'play as you want'....then force everyone to play using only the extremely limited (ie gated/ non obsolete) options that you provide. 95% of your gear is absolutely obsolete. 95% of Hybrid builds are absolutely useless. 95% of all skills will not be used as they aren't optimal (a valid balanced alternative). People will build around the best gear...best skills...rather than build gear and use skills to suit their character. I don't need to prove this. Just visit Cyrodiil.Look at your leader boards.

"Best" gear is not an option in a balanced game with diverse builds. Best does not exist in such a game. Only different.

Regardless. Many thanks for giving us a concise view on where the game is headed. This is always warmly welcomed. Even if it isn't the direction I hoped for personally.

BeanBagGamer

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

Why?

Whoever came up with this idea needs to go back and start again.

Rhazmuz

Just make new CP which augment/improve gear passively, by the same amount going from say VR1 to VR4 would do.

That way you would only need base lvl 50 gear, and the more you advance in CP the stronger that base lvl 50 gear becomes, because of CP which increase the stats of the gear by +xx%

Yea it would mean less required material tiers, but so what.. It would make me more happy to make gear legendary, as it wouldnt feel weak and redundant in 3 months time, when a new tier is released..

At this rate I think I might never make legendary gear, even though I have like 150 legendary tempers...

tinythinker

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Why in the world are you trying to move VR requirements into CP requirements. That makes no sense.

I just don't follow the logic and even tho it's still up in the air NO ONE is asking for co to replace VR.
Some want VR to stay but others like me want VR to go

No one wants a new VR system....geez

Peel_Ya_Cap_517 wrote: »

The fact that he said, "The best gear", is what concerns me..

If the CP cap is raised in conjunction with new DLC's (which I assume is what will happen) and the best gear is locked behind the purchase of such a DLC, the gap between players will only continue to grow.

Apparently there has to be a grind for better gear, @NewBlacksmurf. Now instead of VR16 (or 160 CP) being the cap, it can go all the way to the equivalent of VR360 one day (3600 CP). Of course, nothing is set in stone yet, but, well, there has to be a grind for better gear. And the CS system is what they have committed to for the future. So it kind of is...

Gidorick wrote: »

"There will also be gear scaling and gear will require you to have X champion points. Better items will require more champion points."

I can't wait for these forums to be ablaze when this happens. if CP were not shared by all characters this might make sense... but since they are this makes NO sense... so a player can level one character to max CP then level another character to level 50 and suddenly that character can use all the same gear?

What a way to ruin end game progression.

What you lose in having to actually put more effort into individual alts, you gain with the addition of the equivalent of 344 new veteran ranks to grind through on the alt(s) of your choice @Gidorick. And maybe a slight price increase to XP scrolls in the Crown Store

A sneak peek at forum posts from the future: "Bring back veteran ranks!" "Remember back when the cap was only CP 160 (VR16)?" "Here's a plan to fix CP scaling [that sound like VR]"

But the real question is: Please buff Argonians.

Dual.sphereeb17_ESO

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Dominoid wrote: »

Also
https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/3thlqh/welcome_to_the_elder_scrolls_online_orsinium_aua/cx69emf

There will also be gear scaling and gear will require you to have X champion points. Better items will require more champion points.

COT Dangit!!!

ZOS is removing something to create a new problem....

Freaking geeez guys SMH

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

A little context here before this gets too out of hand…

1. We’re still working on the system – nothing is finalized. (which is why we’re not really talking much about it yet)
2. The intention is that once you hit 50, champion points take over. Veteran Ranks are completely removed.
3. When Veteran Ranks are removed, we will convert any Veteran Ranks on your highest character into CP.
4. To get a rough idea of balance - think of 10CP = 1 VR. (so 160 CP will roughly = VR16)

Additional Details:

• We’re planning on giving 2.5 CP for every VR level you’ve earned on your highest level character. (40 for a VR16 character)
• When the conversion happens, any player with CP less than their old veteran rank * 10 will instead be given enough CP such that their total is VR * 10. For example: A player is VR14 with 75 CP, they will be given 65 CP (140-75) instead of 40, so that they can still equip any gear they may have.
• We will make sure the 16 attribute picks you got from VR1 to VR16 will carry over. (current plan is an achievement that goes up in 10 CP increments until 160)

Keep in mind that none of the stuff above is 100% locked in. We're still implementing the feature - things are subject to change. It's important that everyone understands they are not suddenly going to have to have 501 CP in order to equip the top level gear. We will introduce new gear, with higher CP requirements sometime in the future, but we won't be making huge jumps. (i.e. - we won't go from 160 to 400 suddenly)

Once we finalize the system and lock in more of the details, we will discuss things in more detail and answer questions.

Why in the world are you trying to move VR requirements into CP requirements. That makes no sense.
As of today....drop all requirements of existing VR items to level 50.

Set a base because the skills, crafting are all based on a 1-50 scale.
Don't use CP as a requirement. Allow people to gear progress without being limited to also needing a post 50 leveling requirement.

The game does not need two requirements. Pre 50 and a post 50
Allow the game and NPC or encounter difficulty cause the challenge to gear progress.
Allow champion points to offer passive benefits.

Otherwise the big problems ten becomes how to show 4 digits after post 50 on a character and NPC.
So imagine a person hitting level 49, and then at 50 being level 1 on screen. In a week or so they are now level 100+ which isn't really level 100+ or later 300-501....it's confusing because the next alt is then level 5/501?????

Then I'd imagine the CP catchup then boosts a person from what was VR1 to VR16 in an afternoon
Does this not beg the logic....leave well enough alone because you'll end up having CP tiers for Cyrodil and non CP and then having to deal with level 50 crafter making cp591 gear at level 50 but the requirement being Cp vs a level base

I just don't follow the logic and even tho it's still up in the air NO ONE is asking for co to replace VR.
Some want VR to stay but others like me want VR to go

No one wants a new VR system....geez

I agree with this. There's absolutely no need for a VR system replace if all you'll do is a trade off.

Let the game be more open ended as it should've from the start .
As newblacksmurf said, this is a bloody mess waiting to happen. Ironically, the VR levels sound a lot 'cleaner' than this CP requirements.

Players have the intelligence ( if the game guides them from the start) to understand if they're failing @ an encounter to get better or get better gear.
One example? Anarchy Online . Yes, they have level locked gear, but almost -all- the gear isn't directly LEVEL locked.

Please Zeni, Don't trade one system for the other, if you're gonna do something as big as this, think a bit more than this

Elloa

I'm really not sure what to think here

Originally I wanted the game to be this: once your reach max level, you can do all kind of fun activities PVE or PVP, that are difficult and challenging. Originally I considered lvl 50 as max level.
All I wanted was a way to allow players to be able to enjoy all aspect of the game, and not having another vertical progression to go through.

Now, i'm not sure if it's a great idea to have a Champion point requierement to lock some gear. but in the same time, you need to find a way to "lock" away the gear that had been already created and that is too powerfull for fresh lvl 50.


So basically we need to think about 2 aspect of the question:
1. How to correct what is ALREADY IN PLACE
2. What system to implement that will work on long term


In the end I wonder if it would not be more clear, more fair to simply get the max level to 66.

I don't know anymore to be honnest! I would love to read a detailed discussion regarding this topic with @ZOS_RichLambert and other devs currently working on this issue to understand the thinking behind their descisions.

kupacmac

Dual.sphereeb17_ESO wrote: »

I agree with this. There's absolutely no need for a VR system replace if all you'll do is a trade off.

Let the game be more open ended as it should've from the start .
As newblacksmurf said, this is a bloody mess waiting to happen. Ironically, the VR levels sound a lot 'cleaner' than this CP requirements.

Players have the intelligence ( if the game guides them from the start) to understand if they're failing @ an encounter to get better or get better gear.
One example? Anarchy Online . Yes, they have level locked gear, but almost -all- the gear isn't directly LEVEL locked.

Please Zeni, Don't trade one system for the other, if you're gonna do something as big as this, think a bit more than this

They aren't just trading one system for another, they are trading a temporary bandaid system that's a painful grind across all characters for a vastly improved system where all your characters share XP past level 50.

myrrrorb14_ESO

Thank you for sharing @ZOS_RichLambert

It is nice to have a little insight on your thoughts about the transition away from the veteran system. And I am sorry that you are getting barbecued for it.

It looks pretty good to me in concept and looking forward to how it will be implemented.

I never had a problem with the old vr system, but I can see how this change can be a good thing and a nightmare to sort out.

vamp_emily

I am guessing i wasted all this time becoming a master crafter?

I wish people would just quit crying about this game and just play it. You don't have to be top level, or be the best player to have fun.

[ Shakes my head in disappointment ]

NewBlacksmurf

Elloa wrote: »

I'm really not sure what to think here

Originally I wanted the game to be this: once your reach max level, you can do all kind of fun activities PVE or PVP, that are difficult and challenging. Originally I considered lvl 50 as max level.
All I wanted was a way to allow players to be able to enjoy all aspect of the game, and not having another vertical progression to go through.

Now, i'm not sure if it's a great idea to have a Champion point requierement to lock some gear. but in the same time, you need to find a way to "lock" away the gear that had been already created and that is too powerfull for fresh lvl 50.


So basically we need to think about 2 aspect of the question:
1. How to correct what is ALREADY IN PLACE
2. What system to implement that will work on long term


In the end I wonder if it would not be more clear, more fair to simply get the max level to 66.

I don't know anymore to be honnest! I would love to read a detailed discussion regarding this topic with @ZOS_RichLambert and other devs currently working on this issue to understand the thinking behind their descisions.

It's now apparent that ZOS intends to use "seasonal gear" locked behind a requirement which could be this CP thing....it's not needed. I do agree that no gear should be locked to a CP requirement but I do not agree that a new 50 should be limited once VR is gone. If the content is available as it is now then there does not need to be any new or replaced gear limitations for levels or any new thing because the whole point of removing VR levels is to remove VR from the character player. If any new thing moves a VR requirement to anything else, then you've not removed VR levels. You have actually just replace VR with CP or some other thing and that's exactly what one complaint is in this thread.

Why you shouldn't limit existing gear is because when playing with others, the grouping tools will now gather all of us together so if max is 50 then there is no reason to place limitations of a new 50 or even a VR whose not vr15 or vr16 because the game is already scaling them to max level effectively.

Why you shouldn't limit for PvP is because Cyrodil already scales a player....

Why you shouldn't limit for solo PvE is because Orsinium and IC scale a player so there is literally no logic is placing any gear limitations once VR player levels are removed.

It's redundant and doesn't even encourage playing through older content which is why I came up with a numeric conversion for NPC's that only symbolizing progression for mats and gear but otherwise keeps the NPC stats as they are.

Thoughts on how items could be tiered is basically how it works now minus a VR requirement. It's redundant...and not needed nor can I foresee any benefits to such.

Getting gear is one thing, getting mats for gear is another but because there is a path, no one just gets gear unless they make it or have found it or buy it which is how it works today.
There is no logic or reason to remove a VR player level and try and add on another limiting factor that VR should remove.

Make sense?