FFS ZOS... AGAIN PTS PATCH NOTES!

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2015

I won't quote everyone because that would be too long and tedious.

But there's a LOT of vocabulary "earned, reward, learn, work, train, progress, deserve, etc." that show the cultural gap.

Please keep one thing in mind :

Usain Bolt can run 100m in less than 10 seconds. He has trained A LOT for it. That DOES NOT mean that anyone who will train the same as he did will achieve the same results. L2R (Learn To Run) will NOT make everyone a Usain Bolt.

That's provided we could AND wanted to. Many of us can't for time reasons. I'm not saying all elite players are no-lifers, but I doubt anyone with less than 10 hours / week available for the game would be able to "progress". Many of us can't for other reasons (reaction time, 3D positioning, etc... all things that you can pratice to a certain extent to get better but there's a hard limit to them).
And many of us don't WANT to. Not because we're lazy (as we read here more often than not) but because we want FUN, not WORK. We don't want achievements. We don't need leaderboards.

We want FUN, you want EXCLUSIVE glory, rewards, achievements, rankings, glory. In short : you want COMPETITION.

I'm not judging that, and neither should you judge the fact that we want fun. But the truth is : it's NOT COMPATIBLE. We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

Luckily, we're the majority. You should accept that too. Crying against nerfs and for more difficulty is not better or worse than crying for nerfs. It's all crying.

I still support heavily Nifty's concept of "nightmare mode". I think there's a hope for that. While elite players are not the majority, they are needed in the community for plenty of reasons (the first of them being : they encourage like-minded other players to stay in the game to "get better").

paulsimonps · October 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

I won't quote everyone because that would be too long and tedious.

But there's a LOT of vocabulary "earned, reward, learn, work, train, progress, deserve, etc." that show the cultural gap.

Please keep one thing in mind :

Usain Bolt can run 100m in less than 10 seconds. He has trained A LOT for it. That DOES NOT mean that anyone who will train the same as he did will achieve the same results. L2R (Learn To Run) will NOT make everyone a Usain Bolt.

That's provided we could AND wanted to. Many of us can't for time reasons. I'm not saying all elite players are no-lifers, but I doubt anyone with less than 10 hours / week available for the game would be able to "progress". Many of us can't for other reasons (reaction time, 3D positioning, etc... all things that you can pratice to a certain extent to get better but there's a hard limit to them).
And many of us don't WANT to. Not because we're lazy (as we read here more often than not) but because we want FUN, not WORK. We don't want achievements. We don't need leaderboards.

We want FUN, you want EXCLUSIVE glory, rewards, achievements, rankings, glory. In short : you want COMPETITION.

I'm not judging that, and neither should you judge the fact that we want fun. But the truth is : it's NOT COMPATIBLE. We'll have to agree to disagree on that.

Luckily, we're the majority. You should accept that too. Crying against nerfs and for more difficulty is not better or worse than crying for nerfs. It's all crying.

I still support heavily Nifty's concept of "nightmare mode". I think there's a hope for that. While elite players are not the majority, they are needed in the community for plenty of reasons (the first of them being : they encourage like-minded other players to stay in the game to "get better").

You say that but again if the reward for such a nightmare mode is available somewhere else, where there is less risk and just reward, then its a spit in the face for those that want and can complete such a difficult mode. If you don't want achievements and you don't need leaderboard then you should have no problem with letting us have what we want and you can still have fun at your own pace. There is nothing wrong with wanting competition in a multiplayer game, we got competition in PvP why not in PvE? Sure we got the leaderboards but until Orsinium comes all the leaderboards is for non-scaled content that gives lower ranked rewards that few wants to do anymore.

OmniDevil · October 2015

Nifty2g wrote: »

Nightmare mode

I fully support this idea.

There will be players/groups/guilds that are just that much better than the majority. Those are the groups you usually see with "World/Server Firsts" or fancy one of a kind titles that are only obtainable in hardcore modes of a dungeon.

Normal/Veteran should be able to be completed by everyone. A "Nightmare" mode, as you put it, would help provide those groups the challenge they desire.

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2015

paulsimonps wrote: »

You say that but again if the reward for such a nightmare mode is available somewhere else, where there is less risk and just reward, then its a spit in the face for those that want and can complete such a difficult mode.

See ? Fun and challenge are not enough for you, they even don't mean anything to you if there isn't a REWARD, an EXCLUSIVE REWARD. That's the kind of mentality I strongly disagree with. Others having the same rewards as you for less "effort" (as you call it) shouldn't take your pride and joy of challenge away. But apparently, it does.

paulsimonps wrote: »

we got competition in PvP why not in PvE?

I have nothing against competition for those who want it, but everything against competition-gated-content and stuff.

paulsimonps wrote: »

you can still have fun at your own pace.

How often shall I say that : normal modes of these dungeons are too easy. And Vet versions downscaled at VR8 (that the FUN level for me even though I can do them at VR16 too, but that's less fun), drop VR8 stuff which I need in VR16 version.

jakeedmundson · October 2015

Dymence wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

There are some builds out there with amazing numbers. No question about it.

@Dymence , @Senaxu , @Nifty2g Have you ever cleared it using the intended mechanic, just out of curiosity?

Since I've run it with a lot of different groups, it varies a lot depending on the group strength. Sometimes you have to do the mechanic and sometimes you don't. It doesn't make it any easier/harder though, just makes the fight shorter/longer.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Regarding the "Us against them" argument. There's nothing wrong with being casual. There's nothing wrong with being elite.

There should be room for both, and everything in between.

While I agree to this, and I also think @Nifty2g his idea with the nightmare mode is desirable, I sincerely doubt it will ever be realized. Simply because of the fact that, as previously stated in this thread, people feel entitled to rewards. If they feel the content is too hard to achieve said rewards, it will get nerfed. Just like what's happening to veteran modes currently.

The problem isn't the game - it's the community.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

1

Dymence wrote: »

The whole problem here lies in the fact that casuals do not accept themselves to actually be casuals.

This group of players usually overestimates themselves, and thus when they cannot clear any given content it is 'too hard'.

No one tries to improve themselves anymore these days, the mindest nowadays is just: "Oh, I can't clear it on my first try, and my build is obviously amazing, content must be too hard, nerf pls"

People don't think about anything anymore. They don't care because they feel like they should be able to complete any content on any mode with any build. And ESO caters to them. That's why there is such a mass of players who are absolutely clueless about the game, and give PUG groups a bad name.

As has been previously stated, normal is for the casuals, and veteran is for the 'hardcore' players. I use the term hardcore here lightly because veteran mode is already extremely easy for most of us who've spent some time trying to understand the game & dungeon mechanics.

You counter this argument by saying normal is 'too easy' and 'boring'. Yeah, so what?

That's exactly what veteran is becoming/already is for us. Think outside your box once in a while.

So by your logic.... casuals are stupid and lazy... we can't possibly understand how to get through veteran dungeons...we can't possibly understand which gear to use (some of it we can't obtain due to time)... which skills and rotations to use... we're not veteran material.
I guess all of us should just accept that normal mode dungeons are the end of the line for us and quit playing... i'm sure the eso team would love to hear your ideas

Nice way to spin my words.

I said you need to work for it. Understanding comes with practice. Don't ask for everything to get nerfed.

it's a game... not a job. why do people associate "work" with playing a game?
its not about WORK... its about those of us who don't have the TIME to put into a game
work = not fun
game = entertainment
if you want "work" then go be competitive with some other game and try to make money in competitions.
i'm sorry if you're "bored" of the end game content... but a larger % of players have hardly been able to touch that content.
but no... you're right... we should just "work" harder to try and enjoy a game we payed for like everyone else

SorataArisugawa · October 2015

Petros wrote: »

[...]

Nifty is correct (How you doing bud?) As players that have played since beta, and play 5-7 days a week for trial and dungeon strats that took months of restless nights to complete, we deserve the right the say this, to say that they should stop lowering the difficulty because some players are to stubborn to change there game play to the correct way to complete these scenarios.

This is why ESO is getting BORING, because it's becoming too easy. The other players just want a quick and easy self gratification and move on. Well I say no!

Sadly I have to admit, that I have the same opinion. There are lots of people, who doesn't even understand the basics. They doing it so wrong and they blame the game for being to hard. On the other hand, there are players who understand the basics and like the completable challenge. In fact further nerfs hit players who understand the gameplay, because they get bored. People who doesn't bother are, in a way, rewarded. This dungeons were not to hard.You didn't just practise enough. Thank you for making it boring again... ( I Don't know how big the nerf is, but... But I guess it is too much again)

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2015

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

This dungeons were not to hard.You didn't just practise enough.

Usain Bolt can run 100m in less than 10 seconds. He has trained A LOT for it. That DOES NOT mean that anyone who will train the same as he did will achieve the same results. L2R (Learn To Run) will NOT make everyone a Usain Bolt.

.

Fissh · October 2015

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

I see both ends of the spectrum here. People want to experience all of the content, and others want a challenge. There are 2 difficulty modes for a reason. Normal is the mode for everyone and you can get all of the same gear just 1 level lower. Vet is the challenging mode. I thoroughly enjoyed the difficulty of Vet ICP and Vet WGT. My first clear of vet prison took well over 6 hours, and that wasn't even the first time I was there. The second they make their most "challenging" content so that anybody at all can do it is the second players start quitting out of boredom. In my honest opinion, the difference between vet 15 and 16 gear is a reward for the players that accepted the challenge offered to them and dedicated the time to conquer it.

Apply this logic to 12 man content.....if there was any....and I get it. However, people breaking off into 4 man groups that are selective makes the whole thing counter productive for most guilds. It is hard to see this if you are top tier and have no problem finding groups.
These are dungeons attached to a daily program, not something like vDSA. Sure, the vet mode should be hard, but not exclusive to the general population. I don't like logging in to have some casual play and having to scope the healer, scope the tank, scope the dps....for a hour....to make sure the group has at least a decent chance in the dungeon of many hours. Sure, I can hook up with the rest of you Uber guys to complete, but what about alllllllllllll those people in the guilds that are left wanting? Shall we have "training nights" for the dungeon? With just four people? Ugh, as a former guild leader, the line of people wanting in the training groups would be sooooo long and tedious. I like playing with more than just a select few of the players. I don't want to play with the same 4 people every night to get my gear. Next week, I will be playing alone alot....as is.
Guilds are dying. 4 man hard content will not help that. Solo content will not help that. No trails will not help that. Lessen difficulty on these new vet content dungs may help it....at least a little.
You (us) hardcore content players need not wish it to be on 4 man content, we need to push for it to be in 12man. Normal 12 man versus Hard 12 man......and your logic makes more sense. But for a "daily" dungeon.....it does not. It is rather overly exclusive. We are bottle necking towards more and more exclusion for PVE. From no trials to elite 4 man to solo only. Lets not elite our way into having NO POPULATION left to play with.... no guilds left....etc.

SorataArisugawa · October 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

You say that but again if the reward for such a nightmare mode is available somewhere else, where there is less risk and just reward, then its a spit in the face for those that want and can complete such a difficult mode.

See ? Fun and challenge are not enough for you, they even don't mean anything to you if there isn't a REWARD, an EXCLUSIVE REWARD. That's the kind of mentality I strongly disagree with. Others having the same rewards as you for less "effort" (as you call it) shouldn't take your pride and joy of challenge away. But apparently, it does.

paulsimonps wrote: »

we got competition in PvP why not in PvE?

I have nothing against competition for those who want it, but everything against competition-gated-content and stuff.

paulsimonps wrote: »

you can still have fun at your own pace.

How often shall I say that : normal modes of these dungeons are too easy. And Vet versions downscaled at VR8 (that the FUN level for me even though I can do them at VR16 too, but that's less fun), drop VR8 stuff which I need in VR16 version.

Why do you need the VR 16 Version of the gear? Or are just there for the rewards as well? Because if you just want to go to a dungeon, you could do it at VR 8 or VR 1. You don't need VR 16 Stuff. Not even for the VR 16 Dungeons. But you want them. Tell me why? Is it you want to have the success to get something good? So just the rewards as well. But you do not have the practise to beat the current version of the dungeon. So why didn't you start play your charakter better? That was something you could do on your own. You needn't to call for nervs which hurting the more experienced players.

I would understand your complain, if the dungeons are to hard. They aren't! You have to know what to do, make a decent amount of DPS (10k is enough), heal in the right situations with not to much amount, and have a tank who knows how to block and taunt in the right moment. That is not too much to ask or. If you can't do that, you should think about your abilities, go to the normal mode and try or try boss by boss the vet mode. That is what to do there. Not hoping for nerfs...

Nerfs won't make you a better player, they will just reward you with something you do not need anyway. But in the same time, they will hurt the expierenced players, who like to have their challenges during they get their gear.

Birdovic · October 2015

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

There are some builds out there with amazing numbers. No question about it.

@Dymence , @Senaxu , @Nifty2g Have you ever cleared it using the intended mechanic, just out of curiosity?

Since I've run it with a lot of different groups, it varies a lot depending on the group strength. Sometimes you have to do the mechanic and sometimes you don't. It doesn't make it any easier/harder though, just makes the fight shorter/longer.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Regarding the "Us against them" argument. There's nothing wrong with being casual. There's nothing wrong with being elite.

There should be room for both, and everything in between.

While I agree to this, and I also think @Nifty2g his idea with the nightmare mode is desirable, I sincerely doubt it will ever be realized. Simply because of the fact that, as previously stated in this thread, people feel entitled to rewards. If they feel the content is too hard to achieve said rewards, it will get nerfed. Just like what's happening to veteran modes currently.

The problem isn't the game - it's the community.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

1

Dymence wrote: »

The whole problem here lies in the fact that casuals do not accept themselves to actually be casuals.

This group of players usually overestimates themselves, and thus when they cannot clear any given content it is 'too hard'.

No one tries to improve themselves anymore these days, the mindest nowadays is just: "Oh, I can't clear it on my first try, and my build is obviously amazing, content must be too hard, nerf pls"

People don't think about anything anymore. They don't care because they feel like they should be able to complete any content on any mode with any build. And ESO caters to them. That's why there is such a mass of players who are absolutely clueless about the game, and give PUG groups a bad name.

As has been previously stated, normal is for the casuals, and veteran is for the 'hardcore' players. I use the term hardcore here lightly because veteran mode is already extremely easy for most of us who've spent some time trying to understand the game & dungeon mechanics.

You counter this argument by saying normal is 'too easy' and 'boring'. Yeah, so what?

That's exactly what veteran is becoming/already is for us. Think outside your box once in a while.

So by your logic.... casuals are stupid and lazy... we can't possibly understand how to get through veteran dungeons...we can't possibly understand which gear to use (some of it we can't obtain due to time)... which skills and rotations to use... we're not veteran material.
I guess all of us should just accept that normal mode dungeons are the end of the line for us and quit playing... i'm sure the eso team would love to hear your ideas

Nice way to spin my words.

I said you need to work for it. Understanding comes with practice. Don't ask for everything to get nerfed.

it's a game... not a job. why do people associate "work" with playing a game?
its not about WORK... its about those of us who don't have the TIME to put into a game
work = not fun
game = entertainment
if you want "work" then go be competitive with some other game and try to make money in competitions.
i'm sorry if you're "bored" of the end game content... but a larger % of players have hardly been able to touch that content.
but no... you're right... we should just "work" harder to try and enjoy a game we payed for like everyone else

Stop focusing on the word "work"

He tells you to practice and get better - > trial and error, learning from your faults and next time be able to avoid them.
Get better over time, and after some failed tries, you will make it and feel happy that you made it.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

This dungeons were not to hard.You didn't just practise enough.

Usain Bolt can run 100m in less than 10 seconds. He has trained A LOT for it. That DOES NOT mean that anyone who will train the same as he did will achieve the same results. L2R (Learn To Run) will NOT make everyone a Usain Bolt.

.

You maybe like your comparison, but its not as fitting as you think. You cant compare physical reallife conditions to a game where you have to use 5 buttons for abilities and WASD to move around in a virtual world.
Agree not everyone will become Usaine Bolt after some time, but mastering dungeons in a videogame sure why not

(Please dont shout at me)

Edit: Confusion (thanks OmniDevil)

OmniDevil · October 2015

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

This arena is all about You and how you try to beat it, be creative, have fun trying different tactics etc.Im sure everyone can do it with some practice.

This debate is actually in relation to the recent PTS Patch Notes to further decreasing PvE enemy damage in the Imperial Prison and White-Gold Tower, Imperial City Dungeons.

Not the Normal/Veteran Maelstrom Arena.

Birdovic · October 2015

OmniDevil wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

This arena is all about You and how you try to beat it, be creative, have fun trying different tactics etc.Im sure everyone can do it with some practice.

This debate is actually in relation to the recent PTS Patch Notes to further decreasing PvE enemy damage in the Imperial Prison and White-Gold Tower, Imperial City Dungeons. Not the Normal/Veteran Maelstrom Arena.

I should read less Flame Threads on Maelstrom Arena, thanks lol, mixed some stuff up now.

OmniDevil · October 2015

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

I should read less Flame Threads on Maelstrom Arena, thanks lol, mixed some stuff up now.

No problem at all. Figured I'd hand you the metaphorical fire extinguisher before the pyros attempted to set you ablaze!

Birdovic · October 2015

OmniDevil wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

I should read less Flame Threads on Maelstrom Arena, thanks lol, mixed some stuff up now.

No problem at all. Figured I'd hand you the metaphorical fire extinguisher before the pyros attempted to set you ablaze!

I heard the Pyros marching my direction, you saved me!
(Back to Topic)

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2015

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

You maybe like your comparison, but its not as fitting as you think. You cant compare physical reallife conditions to a game where you have to use 5 buttons for abilities and WASD to move around in a virtual world.
Agree not everyone will become Usaine Bolt after some time, but winning arena fights in a videogame sure why not
(Please dont shout at me)

How come there are e-sports competitions with, clearly, people being consistently far better than others under the same conditions ? They also use only WASD+a few buttons for abilities...
My comparison is fitting perfectly, sorry...

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2015

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Why do you need the VR 16 Version of the gear?

Because my characters is VR16 and it makes simply sense ?
I just want something that i need, not something exclusive like you, you see...
If that gear was available elsewhere I'd be happy to run those dungeons for no rewards at all.

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

I would understand your complain, if the dungeons are to hard. They aren't!

They are too hard. Otherwise, how do you explain that so many people cannot do them ?

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Nerfs won't make you a better player

How about : we want FUN, not PROGRESS ?Or possibly progress, but while having fun ?

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

They will hurt the expierenced players, who like to have their challenges during they get their gear.

Well you can't always get what you want, especially at the expense of the majority.

jakeedmundson · October 2015

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

jakeedmundson wrote: »

Dymence wrote: »

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

There are some builds out there with amazing numbers. No question about it.

@Dymence , @Senaxu , @Nifty2g Have you ever cleared it using the intended mechanic, just out of curiosity?

Since I've run it with a lot of different groups, it varies a lot depending on the group strength. Sometimes you have to do the mechanic and sometimes you don't. It doesn't make it any easier/harder though, just makes the fight shorter/longer.

Merlin13KAGL wrote: »

Regarding the "Us against them" argument. There's nothing wrong with being casual. There's nothing wrong with being elite.

There should be room for both, and everything in between.

While I agree to this, and I also think @Nifty2g his idea with the nightmare mode is desirable, I sincerely doubt it will ever be realized. Simply because of the fact that, as previously stated in this thread, people feel entitled to rewards. If they feel the content is too hard to achieve said rewards, it will get nerfed. Just like what's happening to veteran modes currently.

The problem isn't the game - it's the community.

jakeedmundson wrote: »

1

Dymence wrote: »

The whole problem here lies in the fact that casuals do not accept themselves to actually be casuals.

This group of players usually overestimates themselves, and thus when they cannot clear any given content it is 'too hard'.

No one tries to improve themselves anymore these days, the mindest nowadays is just: "Oh, I can't clear it on my first try, and my build is obviously amazing, content must be too hard, nerf pls"

People don't think about anything anymore. They don't care because they feel like they should be able to complete any content on any mode with any build. And ESO caters to them. That's why there is such a mass of players who are absolutely clueless about the game, and give PUG groups a bad name.

As has been previously stated, normal is for the casuals, and veteran is for the 'hardcore' players. I use the term hardcore here lightly because veteran mode is already extremely easy for most of us who've spent some time trying to understand the game & dungeon mechanics.

You counter this argument by saying normal is 'too easy' and 'boring'. Yeah, so what?

That's exactly what veteran is becoming/already is for us. Think outside your box once in a while.

So by your logic.... casuals are stupid and lazy... we can't possibly understand how to get through veteran dungeons...we can't possibly understand which gear to use (some of it we can't obtain due to time)... which skills and rotations to use... we're not veteran material.
I guess all of us should just accept that normal mode dungeons are the end of the line for us and quit playing... i'm sure the eso team would love to hear your ideas

Nice way to spin my words.

I said you need to work for it. Understanding comes with practice. Don't ask for everything to get nerfed.

it's a game... not a job. why do people associate "work" with playing a game?
its not about WORK... its about those of us who don't have the TIME to put into a game
work = not fun
game = entertainment
if you want "work" then go be competitive with some other game and try to make money in competitions.
i'm sorry if you're "bored" of the end game content... but a larger % of players have hardly been able to touch that content.
but no... you're right... we should just "work" harder to try and enjoy a game we payed for like everyone else

Stop focusing on the word "work"
He tells you to practice and get better - > trial and error, learning from your faults and next time be able to avoid them.
Get better over time, and after some failed tries, you will make it and feel happy that you made it.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

This dungeons were not to hard.You didn't just practise enough.

Usain Bolt can run 100m in less than 10 seconds. He has trained A LOT for it. That DOES NOT mean that anyone who will train the same as he did will achieve the same results. L2R (Learn To Run) will NOT make everyone a Usain Bolt.

.

You maybe like your comparison, but its not as fitting as you think. You cant compare physical reallife conditions to a game where you have to use 5 buttons for abilities and WASD to move around in a virtual world.
Agree not everyone will become Usaine Bolt after some time, but mastering dungeons in a videogame sure why not
(Please dont shout at me)

Edit: Confusion (thanks OmniDevil)

I've tried to explain that its not about being difficult and/or dealing with trial and error (i like a challenge as much as the next person).... it all comes down to how much people can play. I (like many others) can't dedicate 5+ hours a night to play and fail 20 times before we get 1 run right...

and just to be clear... i've never asked for any kind of nerf.... ever. But if the general population is struggling to beat these dungeons... maybe something needed to be done. I've never been able to complete them... not that me and my guildies haven't been trying or "practicing" it.

(i didn't shout

)

The Uninvited · October 2015

Petros wrote: »

Nifty is correct (How you doing bud?) As players that have played since beta, and play 5-7 days a week for trial and dungeon strats that took months of restless nights to complete, we deserve the right the say this, to say that they should stop lowering the difficulty because some players are to stubborn to change there game play to the correct way to complete these scenarios.

This is why ESO is getting BORING, because it's becoming too easy. The other players just want a quick and easy self gratification and move on. Well I say no!

And this is the problem. Most players don't have the time for "7 days a week of restless nights".

While I agree that it shouldn't be nerfed again, this is why casual players can't complete these dungeons. They simply don't have enough time to put it that ammount of effort.

This raises the question "why was it made into a gold pledge?" The difficulty level is way higher than other gold pledges, but I guess they wanted people to buy the DLC.

I can imagine casuals complaining:

"Hey, that new dungeon is the gold pledge but I don't have the DLC." "Right, I'm going to buy this because I like to run gold pledges with my guildies." "What the hell? This is not funny, this is too hard". "ZOS, I payed money for content that I can't complete unless I'm a spending hours and hours of time".

And this is completely understandable. So the best solution is something like @Nifty2g proposed Nightmare mode. 3 different levels, so that the hardcore players have their challenge. And while they are at it, maybe they could include a Nightmare mode for trials and vDSA.

SorataArisugawa · October 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Why do you need the VR 16 Version of the gear?

Because my characters is VR16 and it makes simply sense ?
I just want something that i need, not something exclusive like you, you see...
If that gear was available elsewhere I'd be happy to run those dungeons for no rewards at all.

Why makes it sense to get gear, which is to powerful for your playstyle? The gear is meant to give you very high values. But you don't need that. Now you get the same gear like someone who practised long and endurend. That is fair to you? Because the gear you will get will not reflecting the effort of you are makeing to complete the dungeons.

It also makes perfect sense, to know what you are supposed to do, if you want to complete the VET version of a dungeon. But this doen't seem to bother you. It has nothing to do with Jusain Bolt. Everybody, who really wants to complete it, could complete it. But you have to do what its takes. And it is not so much...

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2015

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

Why do you need the VR 16 Version of the gear?

Because my characters is VR16 and it makes simply sense ?
I just want something that i need, not something exclusive like you, you see...
If that gear was available elsewhere I'd be happy to run those dungeons for no rewards at all.

Why makes it sense to get gear, which is to powerful for your playstyle? The gear is meant to give you very high values. But you don't need that.

Less good players don't need good gear ? You think they should be punished even further by sticking to lesser gear because they don't deserve it ? Gear can be "too powerful for your playstyle" ?

You want the gap between players to be made even wider by gear disparity ?

ROFLMAO.

And by all means, please answer the question : if those dungeons are sooo easy (or "really not that hard"), how do you explain that so many people cannot complete them ?

Petros · October 2015

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

This dungeons were not to hard.You didn't just practise enough.

Usain Bolt can run 100m in less than 10 seconds. He has trained A LOT for it. That DOES NOT mean that anyone who will train the same as he did will achieve the same results. L2R (Learn To Run) will NOT make everyone a Usain Bolt.

.

So this logic, any one should be in the Olympics? No, I don't think so, you're logic is wrong.

eliisra · October 2015

Slight changes to Ibomez the Flesh Sculptor was needed. Other nerfs in vWGT/vICP seems a bit unnecessary and harsh. But that's my opinion.

Still, if they wish to keep selling the IC DLC to PvE'er, those dungeons needs to be doable for more than 5% of the population.

Otherwise PvE'ers will purchase Orsinium only, since the actual Imperial City map is of 0 interest.

Also this new cross faction LFG tool, apparently we're encouraged to use it daily for some reward. Who thinks a cross faction pug without TS, already butthurt because some PvP kill, than teamed together by a tool, can beat vWGT/ICP on today's difficulty lol? Not even close.

Pretty sure Maelstrom Arena will be brutally nerfed in 3-4 months as well, because majority cant beat it on VR. These things are unavoidable in MMORPG's. Instead of making new, they nerf old content, so that a new wave of(less skilled) players can do it finally and therefore gets new content.

Petros · October 2015

The Uninvited wrote: »

Petros wrote: »

Nifty is correct (How you doing bud?) As players that have played since beta, and play 5-7 days a week for trial and dungeon strats that took months of restless nights to complete, we deserve the right the say this, to say that they should stop lowering the difficulty because some players are to stubborn to change there game play to the correct way to complete these scenarios.

This is why ESO is getting BORING, because it's becoming too easy. The other players just want a quick and easy self gratification and move on. Well I say no!

And this is the problem. Most players don't have the time for "7 days a week of restless nights".

While I agree that it shouldn't be nerfed again, this is why casual players can't complete these dungeons. They simply don't have enough time to put it that ammount of effort.

This raises the question "why was it made into a gold pledge?" The difficulty level is way higher than other gold pledges, but I guess they wanted people to buy the DLC.

I can imagine casuals complaining:

"Hey, that new dungeon is the gold pledge but I don't have the DLC." "Right, I'm going to buy this because I like to run gold pledges with my guildies." "What the hell? This is not funny, this is too hard". "ZOS, I payed money for content that I can't complete unless I'm a spending hours and hours of time".

And this is completely understandable. So the best solution is something like @Nifty2g proposed Nightmare mode. 3 different levels, so that the hardcore players have their challenge. And while they are at it, maybe they could include a Nightmare mode for trials and vDSA.

Again, players just want a quick and easy self gratification and move on.

And a Nightmare mode would fix alot, the reward should be worth 20% better though.

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2015

Petros wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

This dungeons were not to hard.You didn't just practise enough.

Usain Bolt can run 100m in less than 10 seconds. He has trained A LOT for it. That DOES NOT mean that anyone who will train the same as he did will achieve the same results. L2R (Learn To Run) will NOT make everyone a Usain Bolt.

.

So this logic, any one should be in the Olympics? No, I don't think so, you're logic is wrong.

Not sure whom you're responding to, but my logic says exactly the same as you...

I was merely saying that people who say "we became good via practice, thus everyone can" is wrong.

Now as to the Olympics : no. I'm not saying everyone should be at the Olympics. I'm saying that players who can't reach the Olympics should not be condemned to run just against their neighbour or their mother-in-law in their backyard. Which is what those dungeons are in normal mode. I think the vet version of those dungeons should be nerfed to "national competition" level instead of Olympics.

And if people really need Olympics levels, let's promote Nifty's idea with "nightmare mode". But remember, the only reward you get at Olympics is glory and decorative medal. No exclusive sportswear that will make you even better and that noone else can get.

Evandus · October 2015

SorataArisugawa wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

paulsimonps wrote: »

You say that but again if the reward for such a nightmare mode is available somewhere else, where there is less risk and just reward, then its a spit in the face for those that want and can complete such a difficult mode.

See ? Fun and challenge are not enough for you, they even don't mean anything to you if there isn't a REWARD, an EXCLUSIVE REWARD. That's the kind of mentality I strongly disagree with. Others having the same rewards as you for less "effort" (as you call it) shouldn't take your pride and joy of challenge away. But apparently, it does.

paulsimonps wrote: »

we got competition in PvP why not in PvE?

I have nothing against competition for those who want it, but everything against competition-gated-content and stuff.

paulsimonps wrote: »

you can still have fun at your own pace.

How often shall I say that : normal modes of these dungeons are too easy. And Vet versions downscaled at VR8 (that the FUN level for me even though I can do them at VR16 too, but that's less fun), drop VR8 stuff which I need in VR16 version.

Why do you need the VR 16 Version of the gear? Or are just there for the rewards as well? Because if you just want to go to a dungeon, you could do it at VR 8 or VR 1. You don't need VR 16 Stuff. Not even for the VR 16 Dungeons. But you want them. Tell me why? Is it you want to have the success to get something good? So just the rewards as well. But you do not have the practise to beat the current version of the dungeon. So why didn't you start play your charakter better? That was something you could do on your own. You needn't to call for nervs which hurting the more experienced players.

I would understand your complain, if the dungeons are to hard. They aren't! You have to know what to do, make a decent amount of DPS (10k is enough), heal in the right situations with not to much amount, and have a tank who knows how to block and taunt in the right moment. That is not too much to ask or. If you can't do that, you should think about your abilities, go to the normal mode and try or try boss by boss the vet mode. That is what to do there. Not hoping for nerfs...

Nerfs won't make you a better player, they will just reward you with something you do not need anyway. But in the same time, they will hurt the expierenced players, who like to have their challenges during they get their gear.

So, by your logic, if I can complete the current vet versions yet cannot run them due to lack of players to play with... I have no right to even consider improving my characters?

In case you are too busy running with your dedicated group, there are plenty of players out there that can actually run the content and want the gear. Content gated by a wasteland is not healthy for any game.

There are no end game, maxxed out, dedicated group players that deserve exclusive access to rewards.

Petros · October 2015

Practice makes perfect, and there is L2Run, specific running techniques can and will improve your running.

Saturn · October 2015

I don't know if you are upset with this change or not? But currently the 2nd boss in ICP is just ridiculous, not only is the mechanic where you have to throw grenades at the inmates walking to the pool damn hard, but the atronachs need to be killed almost immediately or they will wipe the group after half a minute, plus, while you are concerned with all of this you still need to damage the actual boss itself. It has been a stupidly designed boss fight since they brought it out, I am just amazed it took them this long to fix it. Just another reason why I am looking forward to the Orsinium DLC.

anitajoneb17_ESO · October 2015

Petros wrote: »

Practice makes perfect, and there is L2Run, specific running techniques can and will improve your running.

Still won't make me a Usain Bolt though.

The Uninvited · October 2015

Petros wrote: »

Again, players just want a quick and easy self gratification and move on.

No, they want something they can complete because they payed for it.

Imagine this scenario:

More and more content will be made harder in the future because the hardcore players who have the time to learn, adapt and complete are asking for it. Do you think the casuals (and thus the majority) will buy those DLC's?

The answer to that question is a simple NO. So less and less money will be available to ZOS to keep developing the game and it will end pretty soon. Than both the hardcore player and the casual player lose, because the game will no longer exist.

ssewallb14_ESO · October 2015

I support 3 difficulties.

I play this game with a lot of different people of varying skill/progression levels, and probably 70% fit in the "normal is too easy, vet is too hard" category. The difficulty spread is oddly tuned to the very opposite ends of the spectrum, away from the majority of the player base. There's a really, really big margin between "pugs with green drops and no build" and "burn squad with 100k+ group dps" It doesn't really solve anything to bump either mode up or down, especially if normal is meant to be scaled to lower levels, you just end up alienating another part of the player base. 3 difficulties would allow the majority to enjoy the content; hardcore players don't get their content nerfed, lowbies/newbies get to actually play the content they paid for, and those in between have something that's possible, but not easy to the point of boredom.