Heavy armor needs buffed already.

katamuro11b16_ESO

Admiteddly I am not a great ESO player and I did make a few mistakes in my templar nord tank however, I do believe that tanking needs an upgrade. If playing PvE against mobs in an area with the same level as me I pretty much always run out of stamina and magicka if I need to fight somewhere a bit tougher than a couple of random mobs on a map. Frankly it feels like a not very powerful warrior.

I remember tanking in other mmorpgs and one of the main tenets of tanking always seemed to be a variety of skills that gave you taunts and various AoE attacks in addition to having a few weapon skills, here however because we only get 5 slots(ultimate doesn't really count) we can't really have the same choice which makes a tank just another warrior that trades off a chunk of dps for a slightly better survivability in pve.

tinythinker

I almost ready the title of this post as Heavy armor needs nerfed already

Was gonna go look for the perfect video to post in response...

Zheg

I'd love to see some improvements to HA in the update coming q1. Immoveable needed to be nerfed from it's previous usage, but it needed to be nerfed for the high dps builds using it to bypass incoming cc with little worry for resources, positioning, and reaction. The HA passives are garbage compared to what you get for LA and MA. In a game where combat boils down to who can burst the quickest, a minor increase in survivability does not equate to an immense loss of dps. People used to go heavy for the blocking passive, but now... It feels like HA was orphaned in terms of usefulness (and it was never really the pinnacle of usefulness to begin with).

Forestd16b14_ESO

Zheg wrote: »

I'd love to see some improvements to HA in the update coming q1. Immoveable needed to be nerfed from it's previous usage, but it needed to be nerfed for the high dps builds using it to bypass incoming cc with little worry for resources, positioning, and reaction. The HA passives are garbage compared to what you get for LA and MA. In a game where combat boils down to who can burst the quickest, a minor increase in survivability does not equate to an immense loss of dps. People used to go heavy for the blocking passive, but now... It feels like HA was orphaned in terms of usefulness (and it was never really the pinnacle of usefulness to begin with).

Yes the HA skill did needed changed to be only usable when wearing 5+ pieces of armor and not be flat out nerfed as the road ZOS took. Need a 2H to use WB need to DW to use steel tornado so why don't you even need s single piece of armor to use armor skills.

Ffastyl

Preyfar wrote: »

Ffastyl wrote: »

To reiterate a bit on my large post a while back:
What of adding effects to passives that only have one effect? Comparing it to Medium Armor, most passives have multiple effects (Wind Walker, Improved Sneak and Athletics). Resolve, Juggernaut, Bracing and Rapid Mending can have additional effects added that fit with their themes, like Constitution.

If you think buffing Heavy Armor in this way has merit, I'll start brainstorming some effects for each passive.

I'd consider the following:
* A buff to heavy attacks (there's more force to go into the swing given you're wearing heavy armor)
* A buff to attacks that involve bashing and/or closers (e.g. when the tank shield rushes you, the force from the tank's rush is that much greater, giving skills like Crit Rush and Shield Charge a damage buff).

Not everything has to be solely be regen.

I suggested a buff to melee damage be added to Bracing in post #45, but your suggestions are interesting ideas. I would like to see the buff to heavy attacks be extended to light attacks as well since I see them having decreasing relevance outside of attack weaving.

10%/20% damage increase to standard attacks sounds extreme but with 100 points in Blade Expert (25%), I can say from experience it takes this much of a damage buff on normal attacks to make them somewhat competitive with abilities for damage.

I'm not sure what kind of values would work for increasing bash and charge attacks... I do not use charging attacks much in small scale PvP as I rely on the enemy coming close to attack and then using abilities to keep them close.

SirDopey

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

UPDATE IDEAS:

Change resolve to increase your armor by 5% of your max health per piece of armor you have. So say you have 23K health times that by 35% for all 7 armor slotted with heavy that's a 8050 increases to armor. Seem fair no ?

And I still believe juggernaut needs to be increased to a 14% increases to health just to boost my changes to resolve more.

Completely ridiculous idea, unless of course LA will receive a 5% increase to max magicka per piece and medium armor will give a 5% increase to max stamina???

Forestd16b14_ESO

SirDopey wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

UPDATE IDEAS:

Change resolve to increase your armor by 5% of your max health per piece of armor you have. So say you have 23K health times that by 35% for all 7 armor slotted with heavy that's a 8050 increases to armor. Seem fair no ?

And I still believe juggernaut needs to be increased to a 14% increases to health just to boost my changes to resolve more.

Completely ridiculous idea, unless of course LA will receive a 5% increase to max magicka per piece and medium armor will give a 5% increase to max stamina???

Sorry but no. Players already achieve crazy amount of stamina and magicka with how LA and MA are now and they don't need more.

This is about how HA is out-dated and out-classed by the other 2 armor classes and what changes could be added to make HA much better cause you are sacrificing your offensive for what is supposed to be the best defensive armor in the game. But as it is clearly shown that HA is as useful as armor made of mud while LA and MA can gain that massive DPS bonuses while staying alive longer than HA cause there avoiding the damage. Cause that's the problem here HA has not many other options but to take the damage while LA and MA avoids it being rolling and damage shields.

SirDopey

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

UPDATE IDEAS:

Change resolve to increase your armor by 5% of your max health per piece of armor you have. So say you have 23K health times that by 35% for all 7 armor slotted with heavy that's a 8050 increases to armor. Seem fair no ?

And I still believe juggernaut needs to be increased to a 14% increases to health just to boost my changes to resolve more.

Completely ridiculous idea, unless of course LA will receive a 5% increase to max magicka per piece and medium armor will give a 5% increase to max stamina???

Sorry but no. Players already achieve crazy amount of stamina and magicka with how LA and MA are now and they don't need more.

This is about how HA is out-dated and out-classed by the other 2 armor classes and what changes could be added to make HA much better cause you are sacrificing your offensive for what is supposed to be the best defensive armor in the game. But as it is clearly shown that HA is as useful as armor made of mud while LA and MA can gain that massive DPS bonuses while staying alive longer than HA cause there avoiding the damage. Cause that's the problem here HA has not many other options but to take the damage while LA and MA avoids it being rolling and damage shields.

Yes, but you must be able to see the flow on effects of what you're asking for??? You're obviously looking at this entirely from your character's specs. If HA gave a 5% bonus to health PER PIECE then the people that are already on 40K HP would have a ridiculous buff, not to mention the other buffs you're calling for. The only way you could balance this out so that you didn't have immortals running around would be to apply similar buffs to other armor pools. Neither Light or Medium armor ADD to resource pools, Heavy Armor shouldn't either any more than it already does.

NoMoreChillies

remove resistance caps

KramUzibra

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

So pretty sure it's well know at this point heavy armor is more for cosmetic looks than actual function. @ZOS I think IMO it's about time you buffed it up already (along with Dragon Knights and Templars). Below a list of changes IMO could make HA much much better.

Resolve Increases your armor for each piece of HA equipped. Now mine is set at 2536 for all 7 pieces IDK what every one else is at but personally I don't see anything wrong with it. Maybe boost it to 2600.

Constitution increases health recovery by 4% per HA equipped which is just like LA and MA recovery thing but I feel like it should be 5% but again IMO. But is second ability restoring magicka and stamina each time you are hit every 4 seconds sounds nice right ? Wrong cause its only for me it's 346 again IDK what every one else is at but the second skill is pretty useless and needs to be changed back to reduce break free cost by 40%. Really ZOS but reduce break free cost back into HA passives already.

Juggernaut is straight forward of increasing health by 1% per HA you have equipped again no problems with it but maybe but is at 2% per piece. Helps out those who need some boost in there health too.

Bracing decreases stamina cost while blocking by 20%. Boost it 30% for tanks.

Rapid mending I find extreamly useless. Increases healing received by 1% per HA equipped. Doesn't help in solo stuff and again CP can replace that so I feel it just needs a entire remake to reduce effect of snare effects by 20% and reduces enemy physical and spell penetration by 40% when having all 7 armor slotted with HA of course. Why the giant reduce penetration ? Well a gold level 2H hammer with sharpened on it alone gives 34% armor penetration and stack that with the champion passives players can easily get 50%, 60% res penetration making HA 25K res into 10K res might as well go to battle in your under wear cause that's what it's at now and why HA is so useless cause LA has shields and MA has dodging.

So @ZOS any one at ZOS take this into consideration and please make some sort of changes to HA before Orsinium drops. Cause HA users are giving most forms of offensive options for what is suppose to be strong defensive options. Sure most other HA users can agree.

I couldn't have said it better. Heavy armor need to help players become more tank like than the sorcs that stack shields. Generally speaking if your in light armor you shouldn't be able to take as much or even the same amount of damage as heavy.

KramUzibra

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

Also forgot to add something about HA skill Immovable.

I feel it needs to benefit HA again. Like pre 1.6. Reduce it's cost to 2000 at most and increase it's duration to 20 seconds and as for it's morphs Immovable brute be change back to increases weapon damage by 20% (if I remember that was it's power before) while unstoppable has increases duration to 30s and reduce cost to 1500 stamina.

Also of course the CC and negative effects immunity be brung back to it's original time of lasting the entire duration of the skill it self how ever do what ZOS should have done to being with and make it so you need atleast 5+ pieces of armor to use the skill.

Yes yes please do this ^^^^

Nightwolfmenace

SirDopey wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

SirDopey wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

UPDATE IDEAS:

Change resolve to increase your armor by 5% of your max health per piece of armor you have. So say you have 23K health times that by 35% for all 7 armor slotted with heavy that's a 8050 increases to armor. Seem fair no ?

And I still believe juggernaut needs to be increased to a 14% increases to health just to boost my changes to resolve more.

Completely ridiculous idea, unless of course LA will receive a 5% increase to max magicka per piece and medium armor will give a 5% increase to max stamina???

Sorry but no. Players already achieve crazy amount of stamina and magicka with how LA and MA are now and they don't need more.

This is about how HA is out-dated and out-classed by the other 2 armor classes and what changes could be added to make HA much better cause you are sacrificing your offensive for what is supposed to be the best defensive armor in the game. But as it is clearly shown that HA is as useful as armor made of mud while LA and MA can gain that massive DPS bonuses while staying alive longer than HA cause there avoiding the damage. Cause that's the problem here HA has not many other options but to take the damage while LA and MA avoids it being rolling and damage shields.

Yes, but you must be able to see the flow on effects of what you're asking for??? You're obviously looking at this entirely from your character's specs. If HA gave a 5% bonus to health PER PIECE then the people that are already on 40K HP would have a ridiculous buff, not to mention the other buffs you're calling for. The only way you could balance this out so that you didn't have immortals running around would be to apply similar buffs to other armor pools. Neither Light or Medium armor ADD to resource pools, Heavy Armor shouldn't either any more than it already does.

I think you read his idea wrong. He didn't say to increase Health by 5% per piece of heavy armor equiped. He said to increase your ARMOR by 5% BASED on your Max Health per piece of Heavy Armor equipped. Just thought I'd clarify.

AFrostWolf

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

Remove Armor Caps
Let tanks actually tank.

DPS have no dmg cap, why does tank?

QFT

Solanum

It doesn't help that health is a rather *** stat either.

Stamina increases damage, healing, and fuels many mitigation abilities.
Magicka increases damage, healing, and fuels many mitigation abilities.

Health is merely a buffer, it does not increase damage at all.
But aside from 2 abilities it doesn't increase healing or mitigation, it's only a pool that you need to invest the minimal in to avoid getting oneshotted/staying out of execute range.

Give health some decent synergy with plate, let people with high health recover more resources, like it used to be, regenerate more health the more health you have, or give increased mitigation for people with a high health pool.

pod88kk

Heavy armour, especiallyon a dk. is supposed to be there so you can take a beating for you group so it's stats should be higher. It's only good for tanking so make it a beast for tank.

Selique

I certainly agree. Heavy Armor needs a buff.

hrothbern

What is also kind of weird for me is that the Mundus Stones The Lady & The Lover did not get some buff to improve their performance.
Now you get as base bonus 1280 Physical or Spell Resist.
That is only 65% or so of a normal armor set bonus of 1935....
A normal armor set bonus, being the bonus you get for 2, 3 or 4th piece. NOT the 5 pc bonus.
If you compare that with e.g. Magica Recovery of The Atronach: there you get a base bonus of 210,
which is 165% of the Magicka Recovery of a normal armor set bonus (129).
Comparison of other Mundus Stones to a normal armor set bonus are between 130% and 250%.
(I do not consider The Thief, with 360%, because there are so many other ways to increase Crit Chance)

A recent poll shows that there are hardly any builds that use The Lover or The Lady.

no wonder...

Tank builds seem to be an orphan in the ZOS studio's.

It is really sad

Bashev

hrothbern wrote: »

What is also kind of weird for me is that the Mundus Stones The Lady & The Lover did not get some buff to improve their performance.
Now you get as base bonus 1280 Physical or Spell Resist.
That is only 65% or so of a normal armor set bonus of 1935....
A normal armor set bonus, being the bonus you get for 2, 3 or 4th piece. NOT the 5 pc bonus.
If you compare that with e.g. Magica Recovery of The Atronach: there you get a base bonus of 210,
which is 165% of the Magicka Recovery of a normal armor set bonus.
Comparison of other Mundus Stones to a normal armor set bonus are between 130% and 250%.
(I do not consider The Thief, with 360%, because there are so many other ways to increase Crit Chance)

A recent poll shows that there are hardly any builds that use The Lover or The Lady.

no wonder...

Tank builds seem to be an orphan in the ZOS studio's.

It is really sad

It is the same with minor and major buffs. Armor and spell resistance minor buffs are worthless compared to the other minor buffs.

ralonasan

Lol. Wow, it's amazing how little people know about the game. You guys are hilarious making these idiotic claims.

Bashev

ralonasan wrote: »

Lol. Wow, it's amazing how little people know about the game. You guys are hilarious making these idiotic claims.

Can you be more specific or you are just a troll?

kylewwefan

hrothbern wrote: »

What is also kind of weird for me is that the Mundus Stones The Lady & The Lover did not get some buff to improve their performance.
Now you get as base bonus 1280 Physical or Spell Resist.
That is only 65% or so of a normal armor set bonus of 1935....
A normal armor set bonus, being the bonus you get for 2, 3 or 4th piece. NOT the 5 pc bonus.
If you compare that with e.g. Magica Recovery of The Atronach: there you get a base bonus of 210,
which is 165% of the Magicka Recovery of a normal armor set bonus.
Comparison of other Mundus Stones to a normal armor set bonus are between 130% and 250%.
(I do not consider The Thief, with 360%, because there are so many other ways to increase Crit Chance)

A recent poll shows that there are hardly any builds that use The Lover or The Lady.

no wonder...

Tank builds seem to be an orphan in the ZOS studio's.

It is really sad

tanking build only really shines in high level vet dungeons and trials. It is making the regular pve game more difficult from low damage; takes forever to kill things. When buffing up, I'm hitting the cap on resistance.....seems there is a better Mundus to use for something else.

hrothbern

kylewwefan wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

What is also kind of weird for me is that the Mundus Stones The Lady & The Lover did not get some buff to improve their performance.
Now you get as base bonus 1280 Physical or Spell Resist.
That is only 65% or so of a normal armor set bonus of 1935....
A normal armor set bonus, being the bonus you get for 2, 3 or 4th piece. NOT the 5 pc bonus.
If you compare that with e.g. Magica Recovery of The Atronach: there you get a base bonus of 210,
which is 165% of the Magicka Recovery of a normal armor set bonus.
Comparison of other Mundus Stones to a normal armor set bonus are between 130% and 250%.
(I do not consider The Thief, with 360%, because there are so many other ways to increase Crit Chance)

A recent poll shows that there are hardly any builds that use The Lover or The Lady.

no wonder...

Tank builds seem to be an orphan in the ZOS studio's.

It is really sad

tanking build only really shines in high level vet dungeons and trials. It is making the regular pve game more difficult from low damage; takes forever to kill things. When buffing up, I'm hitting the cap on resistance.....seems there is a better Mundus to use for something else.

Sure, If you already hit your cap.... but you did that probably with your Tank armor set and THEN you can use Mundus for something else.
That should also be possible with choosing an armor set for more recovery/support/DPS-selfHPS and then the Mundus for more Resistance.

My point is that this freedom of choice is not there BECAUSE the Armor Resistance Mundus Stones make that route impossible by their extremely low values

vokage89

Agree.. i have no idea why you guys have been nerfing heavy armor.. i have never ONCE heard some one say NERF heavy armor lol... please restore heavy armor passives and buff it a little..

Forestd16b14_ESO

@Bashev please just ignore @ralonasan he/she clearly doesn't know what he/she is talking about and is just gonna keep making un-productive comments and post cause he/she wants to keep HA weak so that they can mostly likely try to one burst kill them.

@ralonasan I am sorry but either say something productive and come up with a proper counter argument on why heavy armor shouldn't be buff or don't say anything at all. Cause all your past comments have been leaning towards the fact that you are nothing more than a troll and should have all your forum rights taken away.

This is a very serious discussion and alot of players of this community agree that heavy armor is out class and out dated compared to the other armors. HA is meant to be the best defense in the game but as right now you can barley survive being attacked by 2 or 3 players yet a light armor user can tank 7 or 8 guys at once by using damage shields or a medium armor user can tank 7 or 8 guy by rolling around a rock.

Which is sad cause a tank can never make alot of points in PvP or do much in VMSA cause were meant to take damage not deal it so please @ZOS_BrianWheeler make our armor match who us the tanks are. Immovable objects who die last and hold the hope of our team together.

Forestd16b14_ESO

vokage89 wrote: »

Agree.. i have no idea why you guys have been nerfing heavy armor.. i have never ONCE heard some one say NERF heavy armor lol... please restore heavy armor passives and buff it a little..

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/148766/heavy-armor-is-so-op-in-1-6/p1

Here's one @vokage89

vokage89

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

vokage89 wrote: »

Agree.. i have no idea why you guys have been nerfing heavy armor.. i have never ONCE heard some one say NERF heavy armor lol... please restore heavy armor passives and buff it a little..

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/148766/heavy-armor-is-so-op-in-1-6/p1

Here's one @vokage89

Well HOLY *** ! thats amazing lmao

Forestd16b14_ESO

vokage89 wrote: »

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

vokage89 wrote: »

Agree.. i have no idea why you guys have been nerfing heavy armor.. i have never ONCE heard some one say NERF heavy armor lol... please restore heavy armor passives and buff it a little..

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/148766/heavy-armor-is-so-op-in-1-6/p1

Here's one @vokage89

Well HOLY *** ! thats amazing lmao

Eh not really just magic user who want a easy kill. There pretty much saying they want light armor to be the only armor with spell resistance cause "it doesn't make sense for a metal plate to resist magic". Yea well LA has physical resistance yet it's made out of silk or wool.

BalticBlues

vokage89 wrote: »

Agree.. i have no idea why you guys have been nerfing heavy armor.. i have never ONCE heard some one say NERF heavy armor lol... please restore heavy armor passives and buff it a little..

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/148766/heavy-armor-is-so-op-in-1-6/p1

Thanks. Now I know why HA sucks so bad on consoles compared to times I played on pc.
It looks like NB's whining crippled DKs, Templars and HA in PvP.
ZOS killed all alternatives, now PvP consists mostly of OP NBs.

I loved my HA Templar on pc, on consoles it sucks more to play PvP with each patch.
HA feels like made of paper in PvP now, and Templar DPS is a joke too.
In 1vs1, I cannot imagine how to survive against a good NB in the upcoming arenas.

Forestd16b14_ESO

BalticBlues wrote: »

vokage89 wrote: »

Agree.. i have no idea why you guys have been nerfing heavy armor.. i have never ONCE heard some one say NERF heavy armor lol... please restore heavy armor passives and buff it a little..

Forestd16b14_ESO wrote: »

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/148766/heavy-armor-is-so-op-in-1-6/p1

Thanks. Now I know why HA sucks so bad on consoles compared to times I played on pc.
It looks like NB's whining crippled DKs, Templars and HA in PvP.
ZOS killed all alternatives, now PvP consists mostly of OP NBs.

I loved my HA Templar on pc, on consoles it sucks more to play PvP with each patch.
HA feels like made of paper in PvP now, and Templar DPS is a joke too.
In 1vs1, I cannot imagine how to survive against a good NB in the upcoming arenas.

Well 1v1 HA is still very very good trust me saved my alot of times from gankers but add another player as you said HA becomes paper (well really can't say paper armor is useless cause the Chinese did use paper armor and did function just as well as steel but was not as durably) and that is the major flaw with HA is that 2V1 or so on it's useless cause it can;t withstand the giant DPS player can output and the fact it has little to no resource management make's it more bad. I know ZOS doesn't wanna repeat the infa tanks for PC launch but over nerfing HA just like DKs and Templars wasn't the answer.

joleda4ub17_ESO

Resistance is capped; damage is not.