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So, You have no reason to buy Imperial City if you dont like PVP. Period.
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Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭...
At no point did I refer to myself as being let down or bothered by the DLC. I havent attempted the PvP in this game, therefore I have no comment one way or the other. In previous MMO's I have enjoyed PvP, in WoW 2v2 & 3v3 I frequently reached top 10. So no, entitlement is not a word I would use for my comment. The definition of Risk is Noun A situation envolving exposure to danger or Verb exposure to danger, harm OR loss. So I repeat myself. Risk does not always mean loss. Lastly, this is not a MOBA and I have played several MMO's and in none of them have you lost items from PvP.
Have played MMOs where the items lost from PvP include cash-shop items.
It was possible to turn the tables on a ganker and end up receiving hundreds of dollars worth of items from their corpse.
Could definitely go for 1v1, 2v2, 3v3 formal arenas in ESO as well though."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
0 -
hiyde✭✭✭✭✭
✭Even though I've kept up with most of these threads, I'm still a little fuzzy on one thing:
If I want to craft V16 gear for myself or others, my options to get the crafting materials are:
- Group Content (Decon drops)
- Head to the sewers to collect stones and try to escape with them
- Buy mats from guild stores.
I'm clear that there are not resource nodes with the new materials.
Is the bottom line: If you don't do group content or PvP, you can't collect VR16 material?@Hiyde GM/Founder - Bleakrock Barter Co (Trade Guild - PC/NA) | Blackbriar Barter Co (Trade Guild-PC/NA)2 -
pppontus✭✭✭✭✭
✭
So.. why ask? There is no rule saying that X/Y/Z must be collectable no matter your playstyle..3 -
hiyde✭✭✭✭✭
✭
So.. why ask? There is no rule saying that X/Y/Z must be collectable no matter your playstyle..
Please read my post again. I am asking if the methods I listed are the only ways to collect mats to craft VR16 gear.
I haven't complained about anything. I'm asking for clarification. Is that too hard to answer without sarcasm and trying to start an argument?
Edited by hiyde on July 22, 2015 11:03PM@Hiyde GM/Founder - Bleakrock Barter Co (Trade Guild - PC/NA) | Blackbriar Barter Co (Trade Guild-PC/NA)7 -
byrom101b16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.
There you have it, from the Horse's mouth.
If you don't do PVP, then you have no reason to buy Imperial City. It's not for you. period.
there is no point in continuing to complain about the Tel Var Stones. It's not designed for you, so you have no reason to bother with it. Just save your money for Orsinium, and let the PVPers have their expansion.
I feel sorry for the Ganker tryhards who thought they were going to get some easy Carebear prey, but this Expansion is for PVPers, and no PVE Carebear should spend money on it. have fun getting stomped by real PVPers.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Bashing & Slanderous Comments]
I think a basic fact needs to be re-iterated for the deliberately blinkered on these forums.
PvE-centric players form the significant majority of the paying playerbase.
Saying that the expansion, which has PvE content embedded in it is somehow 'not for PvE'ers' is utter idiocy.
The PvE MAJORITY have waited a very long time for new content, and have been fed a line? Is that what you are claiming?
If, as seems readily apparent, this dlc is the stomping ground of no-lifers and FOTM cookie cutters and every else is a walking victim, then this game is going to die, and deservedly so.
I for one don't believe for one minute that the 'chests' with unlootable TV Stones will be equivalent to what is available to a camping NB in just a tiny fraction of the time invested.
The PvP'ers who think this scenario is 'wonderful' need to wake up and smell the coffee. PvP is horribly unbalanced. It isn't going to be balanced by the dlc. The PvE builds necessary to take down the harder bosses in IC will be borderline useless against the NB posse at the bottlenecks on the way out. So, should your assumptions about what Zenimax are doing are correct, PvE will wither - as Orsinium isn't going to be out for a LONG time.
And as PvE withers, so goes revenue, and you'll be left with piles of stones you can't sell 'cos the only people on the market will be the other no-lifers.
Congrats, you'll finally have the selfish little game you deserve, so you can locust onto the next one and crash and burn that one with your endless whining for PvP-centricity.Edited by byrom101b16_ESO on July 22, 2015 11:14PM6 -
Ysne58✭✭✭✭✭Its crazy how some of you are still crying like pre-pubescent girls over these stones.
Either grow a pair, and come on in and join us in IC, or honestly, just stfu with the crying....we dont want to hear it anymore, you sound pathetic.
Good thing you are not trying to market your product for mass consumption. At the end of the day it is all about the cash flow and if catering to the 10% hardcore pvpers doesn't produce the sales then the focus will shift and changes will be made.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/196972/do-you-plan-on-getting-the-imperial-city-dlc/p1
With 6.6% margin of error & 99% confidence, 51% of the population will buy this DLC.
I don't know where you get your 10% from.
It's easier to lie with statistics than to tell the truth. There is absolutely no way a poll from a forum like this can reach the level of scientific validity.3 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.
There you have it, from the Horse's mouth.
If you don't do PVP, then you have no reason to buy Imperial City. It's not for you. period.
there is no point in continuing to complain about the Tel Var Stones. It's not designed for you, so you have no reason to bother with it. Just save your money for Orsinium, and let the PVPers have their expansion.
I feel sorry for the Ganker tryhards who thought they were going to get some easy Carebear prey, but this Expansion is for PVPers, and no PVE Carebear should spend money on it. have fun getting stomped by real PVPers.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Bashing & Slanderous Comments]
I think a basic fact needs to be re-iterated for the deliberately blinkered on these forums.
PvE-centric players form the significant majority of the paying playerbase.
Saying that the expansion, which has PvE content embedded in it is somehow 'not for PvE'ers' is utter idiocy.
The PvE MAJORITY have waited a very long time for new content, and have been fed a line? Is that what you are claiming?
...
Claiming to be in "the majority" does not justify people trying to discriminate against others(minorities?), due simply to a sense of entitlement to content.
Especially when that content was intentionally designed for that "minority" group they wish to take it from.
Tel Var stones are a PvP system. If you do not want to engage in PvP over stones, do not enter the map where stones are the primary impetus for combat.Edited by Samadhi on July 22, 2015 11:46PM"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
2 -
Xjcon✭✭✭✭✭So glad you could make a thread telling pve players not to purchase the expansion....what else should pve do? I'll play both sides. I like pvp and pve, just don't like that you have to live pvp to get all the skills to be viable top end.Briza Do'urdenx V16 Dunmer DK
Jcon V16 Orc DK
Vierna Do'urdenx V16 Bosmer NB
Jarlaxle Baenrex V16 Dunmer NB1 -
NobleNerd✭✭✭✭marco.cuevas.ventob14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.
There you have it, from the Horse's mouth.
If you don't do PVP, then you have no reason to buy Imperial City. It's not for you. period.
there is no point in continuing to complain about the Tel Var Stones. It's not designed for you, so you have no reason to bother with it. Just save your money for Orsinium, and let the PVPers have their expansion.
I feel sorry for the Ganker tryhards who thought they were going to get some easy Carebear prey, but this Expansion is for PVPers, and no PVE Carebear should spend money on it, per ZOS. time to git gud scrubs. have fun getting stomped by real PVPers.
Whole heartely agree thankfully these games will keep me busy for a long time..
FALLOUT 4 and MGSV oh yes it will be a glorious fall
not interested in the DLC and I have the crowns
I also think that ZOS is working on what is the most successful thing in ESO and that is the PVP hence
the DLC
I DO like PVP so I'm going to buy the Expansion. I'm just saying for all the PVErs who don't want to be forced to PVP, they should just save their money.
PVPers will need to pick up the financial slack on this one.
I like to PvP and I like to PvE. I am all for risk vs reward, especially in PvP... but the 100% loss for items that are going to be crucial to not only PvP but for PvE (crafting new items. etc) is extreme and not desired by this PvPer.
If it was like 10/15% with increased % for deaths within a certain time frame I would be more inclined to buy it. As it is right now I will not be buying the DLC as detailed to me.
Also ... this will be the tell-tale sign of how many "hardcore" pvpers are actually in ESO, because unless some changes happen after PTS I have a feeling the sales might be less than stellar for this DLC.
Have only seen indication that Tel Var stones, the new PvP currency, will be droppable.
Have seen no indication that lootable gears that can be deconstructed for crafting materials will be droppable.
If I missed that second part, please do link me to it.
The items I am talking about there are the stones.0 -
NobleNerd✭✭✭✭MaximusDargus wrote: »McDonalds decides to add new beef burger but with crunchy peanut bits.
Customers don't like peanuts or are downright allergic to it want to order beef burger without crunchy penaut bits, they even say they will pay full price they just ask to remove penauts, but what does McDonalds do?
They say that its against policy company to sell beef burgers without penaut bits, penaut bits are part of beef burger and if they want a beef burger then they should change restaurant.
fixed for ya
Ok, since you clearly didn't understand...
We already have these "beef burgers", they're on the "menu". This specific burger is called "Cyrodiil", that's where you go for normal PvP. If you want the burger with crunchy peanut bits in it, you go to Imperial City.
They are not throwing the peanut bits in the other burgers already on the menu.
Capiche? Entendido? Understood?
Sigh, people...
No, but they are putting gear and the need to use the stones for crafting into the "peanut burger" that you won't get with any other "burger". It would be like McDonalds adding a contest to only people buying the "peanut burger".1 -
QuebraRegra✭✭✭✭✭
✭yeah but where can I send my $25 for DARK BROTHERHOOD and THIEVES GUILD content?
IC, meh.0 -
angel59✭✭✭Tel Var stones are a PvP system. If you do not want to engage in PvP over stones, do not enter the map where stones are the primary impetus for combat.
No, Tel Var stones are in a PVP area, they are not a PVP system. If this was truly a PVP system, then AP should be the loot-able currency in IC (however, not outside of IC in Cyrodiil so PVP can collect them without fear of losing them). That would be a real risk/reward for PVP'ers. Why add a new currency to buy items that may be of interest to PVE when there is already a currency that can be used? It seems to me that ZOS, regardless of what they may say, intended to invite PVE into the city by offering something that can only be obtained in IC. We don't even know what all the new sets are (unless I missed the list and details) and they may be very useful for PVE. I wont believe this is only PVP until I see that the sets in IC are only useful in IC.
1 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭marco.cuevas.ventob14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.
There you have it, from the Horse's mouth.
If you don't do PVP, then you have no reason to buy Imperial City. It's not for you. period.
there is no point in continuing to complain about the Tel Var Stones. It's not designed for you, so you have no reason to bother with it. Just save your money for Orsinium, and let the PVPers have their expansion.
I feel sorry for the Ganker tryhards who thought they were going to get some easy Carebear prey, but this Expansion is for PVPers, and no PVE Carebear should spend money on it, per ZOS. time to git gud scrubs. have fun getting stomped by real PVPers.
Whole heartely agree thankfully these games will keep me busy for a long time..
FALLOUT 4 and MGSV oh yes it will be a glorious fall
not interested in the DLC and I have the crowns
I also think that ZOS is working on what is the most successful thing in ESO and that is the PVP hence
the DLC
I DO like PVP so I'm going to buy the Expansion. I'm just saying for all the PVErs who don't want to be forced to PVP, they should just save their money.
PVPers will need to pick up the financial slack on this one.
I like to PvP and I like to PvE. I am all for risk vs reward, especially in PvP... but the 100% loss for items that are going to be crucial to not only PvP but for PvE (crafting new items. etc) is extreme and not desired by this PvPer.
If it was like 10/15% with increased % for deaths within a certain time frame I would be more inclined to buy it. As it is right now I will not be buying the DLC as detailed to me.
Also ... this will be the tell-tale sign of how many "hardcore" pvpers are actually in ESO, because unless some changes happen after PTS I have a feeling the sales might be less than stellar for this DLC.
Have only seen indication that Tel Var stones, the new PvP currency, will be droppable.
Have seen no indication that lootable gears that can be deconstructed for crafting materials will be droppable.
If I missed that second part, please do link me to it.
The items I am talking about there are the stones.
Your expressed concern over 100% loss of items tied to crafting new items in your example.
Is your statement that Tel Var stones are going to be required in order to get gear to desconstruct for crafting materials?"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭.Tel Var stones are a PvP system. If you do not want to engage in PvP over stones, do not enter the map where stones are the primary impetus for combat.
No, Tel Var stones are in a PVP area, they are not a PVP system. If this was truly a PVP system, then AP should be the loot-able currency in IC (however, not outside of IC in Cyrodiil so PVP can collect them without fear of losing them). That would be a real risk/reward for PVP'ers. Why add a new currency to buy items that may be of interest to PVE when there is already a currency that can be used? It seems to me that ZOS, regardless of what they may say, intended to invite PVE into the city by offering something that can only be obtained in IC. We don't even know what all the new sets are (unless I missed the list and details) and they may be very useful for PVE. I wont believe this is only PVP until I see that the sets in IC are only useful in IC.
Tel Var stones function differently from AP, and there is a clear reason not to simply continue using AP.
Some of us already have hundreds of thousands to millions of AP points saved up.
ZOS most likely does not want players buying complete sets on day 1 of the new system.
I would be fine with using AP for the new sets instead of stones, and then just having the system be one where dying to other players subtracted a % of my total AP pool.
That would also mean I would be rich as hell as soon as the DLC launches because I could get my new gear and sell a ton of gears to other players.
What Tel Var does for PvP is provide a meaningful risk/reward system to the PvP zone.
A PvE player would be worth 50 stones or less if a PvP player killed them.
A PvP player who has spent the past hours killing other players could be worth several thousand stones if another PvP player killed them.
In contrast the current AP system rewards the same amount of AP for ganking a Quester in a town as it does for killing a rank 40+ experienced PvPer.
PvE mob drops are simply a distribution system that does not allow for the abuse via farming and hoarding that AP has already facillitated.
The entire system surrounding Tel Var stones can function in its entirety if nobody who dislikes PvP ever enters into Imperial City.
If anyone wants Tel Var gear specifically that strongly, he or she can PvP for them like anyone else, or buy them in a guild trader."If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
2 -
Farorin✭✭✭✭✭Considering all the PVE players are crying that the game, for the first time in ever might I add, is getting some PVP content, we should all cry when Orsinium comes out about it not having PVP content, and about how it will be "forcing us" to play PVE.
Seriously, that is how silly this whole debate is.
So in other words, why don't we all just calm the crap down?3 -
Valen_Byte✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Even though I've kept up with most of these threads, I'm still a little fuzzy on one thing:
If I want to craft V16 gear for myself or others, my options to get the crafting materials are:
- Group Content (Decon drops)
- Head to the sewers to collect stones and try to escape with them
- Buy mats from guild stores.
I'm clear that there are not resource nodes with the new materials.
Is the bottom line: If you don't do group content or PvP, you can't collect VR16 material?
Yes sir, that is my understanding. If we dont want to go to IC, we have to buy from those who do. There will be no other way to get the mats.
***Dixon Kay MagDK FORMER EMPEROR***Deca Dix MagDK FORMER EMPORER***Valonious MagPlar FORMER EMPEROR***
GM of BYTE
MAY YOUR DEATHS BE SWIFT, AND YOUR LOAD SCREENS LONG.
And alien tears will fill for him, Pity’s long-broken urn, For his mourners will be outcast men, And outcasts always mourn1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Its crazy how some of you are still crying like pre-pubescent girls over these stones.
Either grow a pair, and come on in and join us in IC, or honestly, just stfu with the crying....we dont want to hear it anymore, you sound pathetic.
Good thing you are not trying to market your product for mass consumption. At the end of the day it is all about the cash flow and if catering to the 10% hardcore pvpers doesn't produce the sales then the focus will shift and changes will be made.
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/196972/do-you-plan-on-getting-the-imperial-city-dlc/p1
With 6.6% margin of error & 99% confidence, 51% of the population will buy this DLC.
I don't know where you get your 10% from.
It's easier to lie with statistics than to tell the truth. There is absolutely no way a poll from a forum like this can reach the level of scientific validity.
Actually there is, I suggest you study margin of error and how it functions.
If you feel the poll is rigged or biased, I would like you to present proof of that.
Good luck, considering the person who made that poll even voted "no" on it.MaximusDargus wrote: »McDonalds decides to add new beef burger but with crunchy peanut bits.
Customers don't like peanuts or are downright allergic to it want to order beef burger without crunchy penaut bits, they even say they will pay full price they just ask to remove penauts, but what does McDonalds do?
They say that its against policy company to sell beef burgers without penaut bits, penaut bits are part of beef burger and if they want a beef burger then they should change restaurant.
fixed for ya
Ok, since you clearly didn't understand...
We already have these "beef burgers", they're on the "menu". This specific burger is called "Cyrodiil", that's where you go for normal PvP. If you want the burger with crunchy peanut bits in it, you go to Imperial City.
They are not throwing the peanut bits in the other burgers already on the menu.
Capiche? Entendido? Understood?
Sigh, people...
No, but they are putting gear and the need to use the stones for crafting into the "peanut burger" that you won't get with any other "burger". It would be like McDonalds adding a contest to only people buying the "peanut burger".
Of course you conveniently left out that they are also scaling every dungeon to VR16 (and the loot inside as well), adding two new PvE group dungeons and revamping every existing set in game with this DLC. The VR16 loot inside group dungeons can be deconstructed for the new materials. Oh, and everything bought with TV stones is Bind on Equip.1 -
TBois✭✭✭✭✭
✭byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »
...ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.
There you have it, from the Horse's mouth.
If you don't do PVP, then you have no reason to buy Imperial City. It's not for you. period.
there is no point in continuing to complain about the Tel Var Stones. It's not designed for you, so you have no reason to bother with it. Just save your money for Orsinium, and let the PVPers have their expansion.
I feel sorry for the Ganker tryhards who thought they were going to get some easy Carebear prey, but this Expansion is for PVPers, and no PVE Carebear should spend money on it. have fun getting stomped by real PVPers.
[Moderator Note: Edited per our rules on Bashing & Slanderous Comments]
If, as seems readily apparent, this dlc is the stomping ground of no-lifers and FOTM cookie cutters and every else is a walking victim, then this game is going to die, and deservedly so.
...
The PvP'ers who think this scenario is 'wonderful' need to wake up and smell the coffee. PvP is horribly unbalanced. It isn't going to be balanced by the dlc. The PvE builds necessary to take down the harder bosses in IC will be borderline useless against the NB posse at the bottlenecks on the way out. So, should your assumptions about what Zenimax are doing are correct, PvE will wither - as Orsinium isn't going to be out for a LONG time.
And as PvE withers, so goes revenue, and you'll be left with piles of stones you can't sell 'cos the only people on the market will be the other no-lifers.
Congrats, you'll finally have the selfish little game you deserve, so you can locust onto the next one and crash and burn that one with your endless whining for PvP-centricity.
These statements about build viability are not true. I play a stamina sorcerer and wear 5pc ravaging and 5 pc air. I am comfortable with these sets to get ok dps in pve. I am in one of the best pvp guilds. If you work hard, think and develop a build that is outside the box it can be viable. Many pvpers have shown this, but you don't hear about it because many don't post videos or talk about it much. There is another stam sorc that runs an orc charge based build that is well known and hard to beat. You run into all types of build in cyro that do ok to extremely well. Yes most people just take the min/max way paved by people on the forums and videos, but I eat a lot of those people for breakfast.
EDIT: Yes I might be more effective in a magicka sorc build, but I wouldn't have as much fun. Therefore I would probably be less effective.Edited by TBois on July 23, 2015 1:19AMPC/NA
T-Bois (Stam Sorc since 1.4) - AD
An Unsettling Snowball (Templar) - AD
Bosquecito (Stam Sorc) - DC
Peti-T-Bois (Stamden) - AD1 -
angel59✭✭✭My response is in bold (Too lazy to break up the original into components. I hope it is not too difficult to read)
Tel Var stones function differently from AP, and there is a clear reason not to simply continue using AP.
Some of us already have hundreds of thousands to millions of AP points saved up.
So why not risk it for the great rewards. Seems to me that buying the set is a choice one makes to overcome any competition, Therefore you are not willing to risk the AP currency because you value it too much. The VS stones must be of significantly less value because you cant risk something you do not have. Therefore the risk comes from collecting them to buy sets that may be useful in both PVP and PVE. (We don't know the details.)
ZOS most likely does not want players buying complete sets on day 1 of the new system.
(Yet if an enterprising individual farms it on day 1, it is ok to sell it in the guild store to someone who may have thousands and millions of gold. How does this differ from the AP you have accumulated.)
I would be fine with using AP for the new sets instead of stones, and then just having the system be one where dying to other players subtracted a % of my total AP pool.
That would also mean I would be rich as hell as soon as the DLC launches because I could get my new gear and sell a ton of gears to other players.
Why would you only want a percent taken. I would have no issue with it if only a percent of VS was taken. Same philosophy. A means to bank AP would have to be implemented because it is unfair to lose that which was accumulated before IC hits.
There are other rich people in TESO, so one more wont make a difference.
What Tel Var does for PvP is provide a meaningful risk/reward system to the PvP zone.
I would think that AP would be more meaningful. After all, this DLC is for PVP'ers, as we were told and the currency already exists. If a PVE'er wanted AP, he could risk getting more by going in to PVP. The introduction of a new currency, that is required to buy the new sets, seems totally unecessary unless ZOS is enticing PVE to become fodder for PVP.
A PvE player would be worth 50 stones or less if a PvP player killed them. Assuming the person runs to the bank every 50 stones. I expect just as many, or more, PVP'ers to do the same.
A PvP player who has spent the past hours killing other players could be worth several thousand stones if another PvP player killed them. This assumes that some 'carebear' PVP'ers dont run as soon as they get 50 stones.
In contrast the current AP system rewards the same amount of AP for ganking a Quester in a town as it does for killing a rank 40+ experienced PvPer. Leave the rest of Cyrodiil safe so that people can accumulate the AP without having them looted. No need to go into IC, unless you want the risk reward.There is no need for a new currency if this is a true PVP only DLC.
PvE mob drops are simply a distribution system that does not allow for the abuse via farming and hoarding that AP has already facillitated. It is too soon to say this. I expect a lot of unintended consequences to be found that will permit hoarding and abuse, at least in the short term.
The entire system surrounding Tel Var stones can function in its entirety if nobody who dislikes PvP ever enters into Imperial City.
If anyone wants Tel Var gear specifically that strongly, he or she can PvP for them like anyone else, or buy them in a guild trader.
Essentially, the PVP community wants risk/reward provided they only risk something(VS) other than what they have (AP). I think ZOS has made a huge mistake here. I am not much of a PVP player but I I see the desire of PVP'ers and PVE'ers to have the new equipment. In a few months, IC will be a wasteland for a few hardcore PVP'ers that control a market that overprices the new PVP sets such that others just leave. It wont be too long before the system is changed. There is a reason that this model is not successful in this day and age. It is not because of whiners, rather it is a model that will probably reduce incremental revenues instead of increasing revenues.1 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭My response is in bold (Too lazy to break up the original into components. I hope it is not too difficult to read)
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So why not risk it for the great rewards. Seems to me that buying the set is a choice one makes to overcome any competition, Therefore you are not willing to risk the AP currency because you value it too much. The VS stones must be of significantly less value because you cant risk something you do not have. Therefore the risk comes from collecting them to buy sets that may be useful in both PVP and PVE. (We don't know the details.)
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(Yet if an enterprising individual farms it on day 1, it is ok to sell it in the guild store to someone who may have thousands and millions of gold. How does this differ from the AP you have accumulated.)
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Why would you only want a percent taken. I would have no issue with it if only a percent of VS was taken. Same philosophy. A means to bank AP would have to be implemented because it is unfair to lose that which was accumulated before IC hits.
There are other rich people in TESO, so one more wont make a difference.
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Would be fine with a system that risks all AP on death as well. The percent factor was referred to because it was an alternative to Tel Var Stones that has been suggested by previous posters who object to the current Tel Var format.
You are not the first person to argue that they should be using AP instead of a new system. Your view only differs in how much of the drop should be made. Can totally agree with you on the value in this regard, it was my misinterpretation that you were following a similar line of thought from an earlier poster.
The fact remains, if ZOS lets me spend all my saved up AP on new gear on day 1, am going to do so to significant profit.
It is precisely why I have saved my AP so long and am continuing to do so -- I am not yet confident that ZOS won't cave to the people crying about the system on the forums, in which case my AP could have gigantic worth after all.
The engineered scarcity of the new system is part of the drive for players to use the system, but not merely PvE players.
If you want me to believe that ZOS would be comfortable with essentially handing a bunch of players all the new DLC gears on day 1 rather than having to work with the new system to earn them, you are going to have to be more convincing than this.
If you think "an enterprising individual" can farm an amount of Tel Var stones in a single day that is remotely comparable to multiple PvP players saving up their AP since the Justice System was implemented and earlier, I welcome you to try.
Considering you are in support of 100% AP drops, it seems fairly safe to say you are in support of 100% Tel Var drops.
In which case, look forward to having you try and take my stones when the system comes, if it is not nerfed by then. "If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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NobleNerd✭✭✭✭Valen_Byte wrote: »Even though I've kept up with most of these threads, I'm still a little fuzzy on one thing:
If I want to craft V16 gear for myself or others, my options to get the crafting materials are:
- Group Content (Decon drops)
- Head to the sewers to collect stones and try to escape with them
- Buy mats from guild stores.
I'm clear that there are not resource nodes with the new materials.
Is the bottom line: If you don't do group content or PvP, you can't collect VR16 material?
Yes sir, that is my understanding. If we dont want to go to IC, we have to buy from those who do. There will be no other way to get the mats.
Correct and this is where it becomes clear that this is not PvP love when it hinders the PvE experience. I am not upset because they are finally adding more PvP to the game. My concern is this will only end up catering to those who find a way to manipulate the system like so many in PvP have already or for the ganking groups that will be lurking everywhere.0 -
Samadhi✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭...MaximusDargus wrote: »McDonalds decides to add new beef burger but with crunchy peanut bits.
Customers don't like peanuts or are downright allergic to it want to order beef burger without crunchy penaut bits, they even say they will pay full price they just ask to remove penauts, but what does McDonalds do?
They say that its against policy company to sell beef burgers without penaut bits, penaut bits are part of beef burger and if they want a beef burger then they should change restaurant.
fixed for ya
Ok, since you clearly didn't understand...
We already have these "beef burgers", they're on the "menu". This specific burger is called "Cyrodiil", that's where you go for normal PvP. If you want the burger with crunchy peanut bits in it, you go to Imperial City.
They are not throwing the peanut bits in the other burgers already on the menu.
Capiche? Entendido? Understood?
Sigh, people...
No, but they are putting gear and the need to use the stones for crafting into the "peanut burger" that you won't get with any other "burger". It would be like McDonalds adding a contest to only people buying the "peanut burger".
Of course you conveniently left out that they are also scaling every dungeon to VR16 (and the loot inside as well), adding two new PvE group dungeons and revamping every existing set in game with this DLC. The VR16 loot inside group dungeons can be deconstructed for the new materials. Oh, and everything bought with TV stones is Bind on Equip.
Things become much more clear in this light.
The issue is not that PvE players are being "forced" into PvP content.
The issue is that Solo PvE players feel "forced" into Group PvE content.
Can totally respect that Solo PvE players feel they have no home outside of the 15+ original storyline zones. All PvE content since launch, aside from the Justice System (where the PvP content was removed making it pure Solo PvE), has been group PvE content.
None of the PvE content that is being enhanced for Imperial City is favourable to Solo PvE players who adamantly dislike PvP. This makes perfect sense why ZOS should change a good PvP system.
No wait, that is actually a different concern for ZOS to handle than nerfing creative and interesting PvP mechanics.
PvE players being dissatisfied with PvE systems constitutes a very real concern -- Tel Var stones are not a PvE system though, they are a PvP system.Edited by Samadhi on July 23, 2015 3:04AM"If you want others to be happy, practice compassion. If you want to be happy, practice compassion." -- the 14th Dalai Lama
Wisdom is doing Now that which benefits you later.
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Soulshine✭✭✭✭✭
✭The point is that, the only feasible suggestion for the PVE-only player in regards to Imperial City, is simply for them not to buy it.
The content is not made for you, it is made for PVPers. So you, as a PVE-only player, should not spend the money to purchase it.
ZOS has acknowledged this, and they are seemingly fine with you not purchasing this content. So don't. Leave the Imperial City DLC to the PVPers.
there is no need to change the DLC's content to suit your PVE playstyle. No need to reduce the amount of stones lost when you die to a PVPers. It's not your DLC. so don't buy it. don't play it. Play the PVE content you have. play another game. wait for Orsinium. Don't waste your money on content you arent going to enjoy, and that was not designed for you to enjoy.
Then, the only people getting "ganked" are other PVPers.
I completely disagree with this and am at this point really becoming convinced it is responses like the above that cause PvP players to despire and label PvE players as "carebears" to begin with.
As a mostly PvE player interested in competitive progression raiding, this game does not really offer much of what I had hoped it would. I have had up to my a$$ with running vDSA and Undaunteds, not to mention trials over and over for months. I am really, REALLY happy that IC finally came out becase we have been waiting for this content for over ONE year. They introduced the content last year as being BOTH PvP and PvE combined in the zone.
Considering the zerg fests in Cyrodiil are truly annoying, are not and have NEVER been my own idea of real PvP, I find the concept of IC truly worthy of not only being embraced but played as intended. What you call "ganking" seems to me is legitimate PvP play and what PvP is supposed to be about - not hiding in anonimity to get 100K AP off the kills of a party of 30 people. I may be a PvP noob, but I'll be hanged if I am going to sit behind someone else's laurels to get what I need.
I am not going to let some ridiculous fear of another player killing me - big FREAKIN' whoop - deter my experience of the zone.
ZoS has stated that there will be quests and dailies through which someone not interested in taking more risks can earn TV stones. If you don't think that is worth your time and money, then don't buy the expansion. Meantime, I will be doing the content, trying my luck at more risky means to earn more if I can, and still getting to the PvE DUNGEONS in IC all WITHOUT having someone ELSE port me there.
Yeesh. I never thought I would be saying this as have others but yeah, it really does seem some people really do just want everything handed to them on a platter.
NO thanks to that sentiment from me. It might take me longer to get my mats and gear, but at least I know I will have earned it just like anyone else actually playing the content there, which I am definitely looking forward to experiencing --- no matter what percentage of TV stone loss gets applied after PTS testing gets done; I will be playing it on PTS as well.
Rant off and outta here.Edited by Soulshine on July 23, 2015 3:37AM2 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Considering all the PVE players are crying that the game, for the first time in ever might I add, is getting some PVP content, we should all cry when Orsinium comes out about it not having PVP content, and about how it will be "forcing us" to play PVE.
Seriously, that is how silly this whole debate is.
So in other words, why don't we all just calm the crap down?
PvP content and doctrines are made by players and this process happens every day, plus PvP classes balances happened several times since the game started. Usually hurting PvE builds in the process.
PvE content is made by developers and players have to wait until those developers create new stuff. This happened exactly once and the released region (Craglorn) is a textbook example of how to NOT create content, it disappointed enough players to force ESO into B2P.
Your crying about crying is completely irrelevant.Edited by Vahrokh on July 23, 2015 7:58AMVaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO0 -
In all honesty I like both PVP and PVE so I will be buying the imperial city expansion and I am excited for it! Although I know there have been some worries about the tel var stones, I wouldn't worry at all it turns out that the new dungeon gives you veteran rank 16 gear which I think is awesome and besides I think it will be pretty fun, with all the people fighting each other over the tel var stones, my advice is to join a big group that mainly does PVP so you will have backup in case you need it.2 -
KerinKor✭✭✭✭✭
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So?This is care beaR PVP.. Try playing tibia where you did and lose 40 hours of grinding
Or someone glitches you to get red skull and you lose everything
The fact such masochistic mechanics exist in some games means nothing in respect to others, Tibia (or whatever it's called has nothing to do with ESO and whatever content it has is irrelevant here.
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Roselle✭✭✭✭jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »RazzPitazz wrote: »What remains unclear is how PvErs will get equivalent gear for their PvE without the IC purchase as you need it to be able to obtain any gear specific to IC. They failed to discuss this and I think a lot of PvErs have jumped to the conclusion that they are being restricted from the gear if they do not purchase, making the TVS system unappealing. I highly doubt this is the case but I can see how it escalated. If ZoS can hint at equivalent gear outside of Cyrodiil I think a lot of the fires will die down.
even if there is no equivalent gear outside of IC - "carebears" without the IC DLC can buy that gear from the gankers. Just as they can buy PvP gear right now...
.... do you even understand how inflated the prices will be?
Buying the gear will be out of most people's budget.
Not to mention just like with the WW and vamp stuff there will be a group of people who will make IC theirs only. They wil kill anyone who dares try and enter. There will be too many of them and they will know every exploit in the book. Then they will demand millions for the gear. So ya congrats on creating a system that caters to the sociopath ZOS. Maybe one of these days you will get back to your core audience which loves elder scrolls games. Not these minority of people who demand you let them harass the rest of the population of the game.
Just because you're getting wrecked doesn't 100% mean they're exploiting, or a sociopath.
Excuse me while you explain this theory more so they cater to lazya** people that probably blob up harder (and still lose)This one was rekt by Zenimax2
