So, You have no reason to buy Imperial City if you dont like PVP. Period.

KerinKor

markt84 wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

markt84 wrote: »

I love the PvP, I've been forced to PvE once I hit vet 1. It took me 10x longer to get to vet 1 than if I decided to quest instead, but I enjoyed PvP. So once I lost all my buffs I was forced to PvE for better gear and to level faster. There wasn't enough for the people that love PvP. So zos makes PvP content because it was lacking it. Now PvEers are all upset because this dlc is for the people that enjoy PvP. The stones were added to make PvP more intense

If that were true there was no need to RAISE THE LEVEL CAP, was there?

This is as much PVE content as PVP but with the added twist that in order to level up PVEers are going to have to endure PVP gankers.

If you are a PvEer what do you need go up to level 16 anyways. The only v16 content will be found in IC. So you don't need a level bump because the PvE content outside of IC will not be changed.

That argument could have been said at every level upgrade since VR10 .. of course I can stick at VR10 and not be able to play any content beyond that.

When ZOS finally kill of VR they're NOT going to scrap the character progression so in order to play content that comes AFTER IC you'll need to be VR16!

Quit with the fallacy of "you don't need ...", of course you NEED to keep leveling as the level cap rises!

KerinKor

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Honestly, this is the first patch PvP had, everything before was all PvE.

PvErs got spoiled now they think every major patch has to be for them...

You're right, except this patch is NOT JUST PVP! It includes A LEVEL CAP RISE which PVEers need and, in fact, is less relevant to PVP where levels actually mean far less.

You're right, PVPers deserve new PVP content but IC isn't that!

Samadhi

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

This all could have been avoided by releasing orsinium first. Then noone would have any complaints. Both sides would have stuff to do. Instead the first DLC after waiting months and months alienates 75% or more of the players. How long are us PVE centered people supposed to stick around and wait for something to do? Another 6 months till orsinium IF its that fast? This game is going to sink quicker than the titanic if they dont hurry up and put out new content for EVERYONE.

What PvP content is being included in the Orsinium update?

This is completely new news to me.

Are you even reading what I wrote. If they had put Orsinium out say August 1st and IC out August 31st we wouldnt be having this conversation. How do you get from that PVP content is being included in Orsinium?

Would be quite happy if we got Imperial City on August 1st and Orsinium on August 31st as well.

Would certainly hope that you would not be dissatisfied with getting Orsinium 30 days after Imperial City, which was announced as basically ready back at the time of the Justice System, just because it meant getting it 30 days after PvP content.

Sharee

KerinKor wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Honestly, this is the first patch PvP had, everything before was all PvE.

PvErs got spoiled now they think every major patch has to be for them...

You're right, except this patch is NOT JUST PVP! It includes A LEVEL CAP RISE which PVEers need and...

That has nothing to do with IC. You will get the level cap increase regardless of whether you buy the DLC or not. You can get the new levels in the old world just fine.

PBpsy

Korozenn wrote: »

Wolfshead wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

Wait now what frack love have PvE community got last 8 month to me info the have got as little love as PvP community we have see no content up for at least last 8 month and ZoS have stomach to say "PvP player - it's their trun for some love" serious ZoS name one thing the PvE community have got in last 8 month and dont come here tell me that item in crown store is thing for PvE community for PvP community benefit as much for those item as well.

So what ZoS PvE communtiy have grind Craglorn to get VR 16 until you guys feel it is time get release Orsinium DLC come on now you add 2 new VR lvl and then you expect half of playerbase grinder those 2 lvl and you hope people wont stop play ESO for the hate grinder??

Hope for you sake ZoS that Orsinium DLC within the next 2 month after that Imperial City DLC is out or i tihnk you will lose more player.

I hope you're exaggerating here...

There is a staggering amount of PvE content in this game. PvPers have been playing the same content in Cyrodiil since launch and the zone itself was relatively untouched since then as well outside of balancing changes and bug fixes. By comparison, we got Craglorn, Upper Craglorn, 2 New Veteran Group Dungeons, Trials, and Dragonstar Arena last year; those are all part of the PvE experience.

It's about time that PvPers do get Imperial City. Orsinium was delayed just like Imperial City was, but I'd rather ZeniMax focus on making the entire zone itself very high quality PvE content that takes full advantage of solo play. I'm also hoping that they finally introduce another new solo instance feature for instanced dungeons so you can choose to play them by yourself and content will scale to match your level afterwards. It's possible they are keeping that for Orsinium, but I won't hold my breath just yet.

Other than all of that, your next point was on the VR cap being extended to VR16. I'll echo the words of @ZOS_GinaBruno and say again that there have been XP changes across the board that will make it much easier to accumulate XP towards ranks when the Imperial City update goes live. It will also take less XP to rank up from VR1 to VR16 than it did for VR1 to VR14 due to the new system in place.

Hope that clears things up.

The game was launched with six 4player group end game dungeons that were not even scaled to max level and were just slight modifications of the leveling dungeons. They had more or less no group PVE end game content at launch In an sub based MMORPG. Six short dungeon's, no 12 player raids no nothing. It was actually so bad that they had to come up with the Vet rank system to keep the non extreme casual PVE crowd interested more than one month.Those things you mention are things that should have been in the game at launch but were delayed. Even today the group PVE end game content is barely enough for the console release..

The PVP had everything that was advertized it would have. That is a three way AvAvA war in Cyrodill. With the added performance issues and balance problems but that was juat a bonus.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Samadhi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

This all could have been avoided by releasing orsinium first. Then noone would have any complaints. Both sides would have stuff to do. Instead the first DLC after waiting months and months alienates 75% or more of the players. How long are us PVE centered people supposed to stick around and wait for something to do? Another 6 months till orsinium IF its that fast? This game is going to sink quicker than the titanic if they dont hurry up and put out new content for EVERYONE.

What PvP content is being included in the Orsinium update?

This is completely new news to me.

Are you even reading what I wrote. If they had put Orsinium out say August 1st and IC out August 31st we wouldnt be having this conversation. How do you get from that PVP content is being included in Orsinium?

Would be quite happy if we got Imperial City on August 1st and Orsinium on August 31st as well.

Would certainly hope that you would not be dissatisfied with getting Orsinium 30 days after Imperial City, which was announced as basically ready back at the time of the Justice System, just because it meant getting it 30 days after PvP content.

That would also have been acceptable to me. I dont really care which comes first as long as they come out within say a month of each other.

Enodoc

My view on TV stones is that there will be so many in circulation really quickly, so the "PvE pinata" thing probably won't happen. The sewers are full of mobs, so PvP players will have to kill some just in order to get through the area to find some PvP to do.

DDuke

KerinKor wrote: »

bosmern_ESO wrote: »

Honestly, this is the first patch PvP had, everything before was all PvE.

PvErs got spoiled now they think every major patch has to be for them...

You're right, except this patch is NOT JUST PVP! It includes A LEVEL CAP RISE which PVEers need and, in fact, is less relevant to PVP where levels actually mean far less.

You're right, PVPers deserve new PVP content but IC isn't that!

Good thing you get two new group dungeons, and every existing one is scaled to V16, right?

Good thing you can also just go to goblin cave & hit V16 in an hour or two.


I'd be curious of your idea of what PvP content PvP players should have got, that is different from what we have currently.

Arenas, BGs? I wouldn't have minded that, but I like just as much what we've been represented.

Then again, how would that be any different?
That'd be 100% PvP, meaning you'd still have to new content specifically for you.

Atleast this way, people who like both PvE & PvP are also satisfied.

Sykis

I for one, am interested in this new content. I enjoy the challenge of a little risk. I play mostly PVE and have dabbled in PVP in ESO for a bit. I believe many ppl are being over critical about content that has not been tested by the players yet to assume this system will be anything PVE or PVP community seems short sighted to me.

Consider the facts: ESO has not moved from their model sence launch. The fact that it is a TES game does not mean that it's simply a solo, group, or PVP game. Regardless of the lore that is contained within the TES story or past games, this addition to the series was announced as not only an MMO, but also centered around a faction war for the imperial throne. I think ZOS has done an amazing job bringing elements of all play styles to one game to allow for players of each category a place to do what they love in gaming; PVE solo, PVE group(large & small) large scale PVP, small scale PVP within that same area.

Elements like these in a single game bring diversity and challenge for all facets to enjoy. None of it is forced on you and ZOS has given you the choice how the shape your ESO experience. In the end it is a game and every new idea within this game will bring both supportive and unsupportive opinions. I have considered a lot of the comments here in this thread and have a few of my own.

This PVP vs PVE is out of control. Consider past comments regarding a good PVP build does not work in PVE to be competitive and vice versa. Assuming this is correct then the fear of being ganked should be less then in Cyrodil now. Watch the ESO Live video showed the tight spaces with Mobs at every turn with very little room to move without being noticed. PVP players will have to contend with this as much as the PVEers. The risk of stealing stones form someone is as much on both sides as the PVPer waiting for that kill has to plan out their strategy better because of mobs who don't care what faction he/she came from and exposing them. Then jumping in for the kill the PVPer is now exposed to the party of players on both PVE and PVP and his target may not have very many if any stones on them at the time of the kill. There is no way knowing how many stones a player has on them so this brings its own level of risk as a player takes earned stones only to have them taken back by someone else while having to consider that the mobs don't care who your flag is or your stones.

Last point is this game is built around choice. There are viable options for pretty much any mainstream play style that you want. If you want to enjoy this content then there's multiple ways for you to do so. If not then you don't have to. Both sides have pros and cons be it fear of losing what you earned or economic fluctuations to get the items from the DLC. The choice is yours and I would venture to say that to best choice is to test the content when it available and decide for yourself and give constructive feedback on the new content. For the rest I will see you all in Vet dungeons and IC.

Avenias

i wonder how long it will take for this thread to be shut down also lol. The community moderators are out hunting all threads that insults IC thread.

Sykis

Avenias wrote: »

i wonder how long it will take for this thread to be shut down also lol. The community moderators are out hunting all threads that insults IC thread.

At the same time I think they also enjoy seeing the diversity of both opposing points of view. As long as people keep on topic and avoid bashing others opinion.

Tors

All the DLC is free to the subscribers.

So basically the people pissing and moaning are those who choose not to pay.

Hence me having a hard time feeling anything for you or even reading more than 2 or 3 lines of your posts.

If you choose to not pay the nominal sum asked for the subscription, you really dont have a voice on any subject within the game.

You have already spoken.

Pallmor

markt84 wrote: »

KerinKor wrote: »

markt84 wrote: »

I love the PvP, I've been forced to PvE once I hit vet 1. It took me 10x longer to get to vet 1 than if I decided to quest instead, but I enjoyed PvP. So once I lost all my buffs I was forced to PvE for better gear and to level faster. There wasn't enough for the people that love PvP. So zos makes PvP content because it was lacking it. Now PvEers are all upset because this dlc is for the people that enjoy PvP. The stones were added to make PvP more intense

If that were true there was no need to RAISE THE LEVEL CAP, was there?

This is as much PVE content as PVP but with the added twist that in order to level up PVEers are going to have to endure PVP gankers.

If you are a PvEer what do you need go up to level 16 anyways. The only v16 content will be found in IC. So you don't need a level bump because the PvE content outside of IC will not be changed.

A lot of players who only want to PvP in Cyrodil will be effected too (since they will be at a disadvantage now if they don't buy IC and farm stones there). I imagine there are a number of players who do enjoy Cyrodil but don't like the idea of a brutal gankfest for stones in IC. They're not as vocal as other groups, but I suspect that not all PvPers want player looting. Some just play in Cyrodil for fun.

Pallmor

JMadFour wrote: »

If you need to loot stuff from someone's corpse to justify PVP, then the game is not the problem.

I disturbs me just how many players relish in the idea of screwing over other players. There was a guy on the TESO Nation podcast this week who was virtually jumping up and down at the thought of how many players he was going to screw over and gank when IC came out. If that's the kind of person who is going to be in IC, I'm glad ZOS made it clear for me to wait for Orsinium. No desire to go there at all now. I deal with enough sociopaths IRL, thank you very much.

Pallmor

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Player looting is an outdated mechanic which always without fail ends up with a select few abusing the majority.

It's sort of like the old libertarian fantasy of "Once we have a society where anything is permitted, then I can do whatever I want at the top of the ladder!" It never occurs to anyone that there will only be a few people at the top of the ladder, with the vast majority of people serving as exploited peons at the bottom. No one ever thinks *they'll* be one of the peons.

Gidorick

It's threads like these that cause developers to stop talking to us. The community takes everything they say and twists it to use as a weapon against the developer and fellow players.

Hope499

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

All I ask is remove the whole player looting of stones. Then I will buy it even tho I have not the connection nor the reflexes for pvp. I dont mind getting killed. Its part of a pvp zone. What I dont like is people being able to take all my stuff.

No, thats the most exciting part.

And its not "all your stuff" its one type of new currency.

JMadFour wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

You can have pvp without looting other players.

No see, that's not tryhard enough.

you have to be able to easily kill people who won't fight back and take all their stuff. or else it isn't "war" thats all about "conflict".

Thank you, this guy gets it.

starlizard70ub17_ESO

AS a person who mainly PvE's with alittle PvP Cryodiil questing on the side, the solution is simple. I'll actually go on the PTS and try it out for awhile. If I find the PvP ganking, stone looting, etc, too much to want to bother with, I won't buy the DLC. If I find I have fun without the PvPing becoming too annoying, I'll buy it.
Personally I think ESO should have left IC an all, (or mostly), PvP area and waited on PvE containt until the next DLC.

JMadFour

Gidorick wrote: »

It's threads like these that cause developers to stop talking to us. The community takes everything they say and twists it to use as a weapon against the developer and fellow players.

But I am not twisting anything, nor am I saying anything against the Developers.

They said the DLC is for PVPers. Therefore people who dont want to PVP should not purchase or participate in this content.

Thats not an insult to the devs. That is the natural conclusion to their stated intent.

JMadFour

Tors wrote: »

All the DLC is free to the subscribers.

So basically the people pissing and moaning are those who choose not to pay.

Hence me having a hard time feeling anything for you or even reading more than 2 or 3 lines of your posts.

If you choose to not pay the nominal sum asked for the subscription, you really dont have a voice on any subject within the game.

You have already spoken.

Curious as to who specifically this post is aimed at.

Considering that 1)The threadstarter (Me) is a subscriber, and 2)that this is not a free game so every who owns it has paid the nominal fee to play it (60 dollars), and 3)the subscription is completely optional and not required to access content that can be bought from the Crown store.

In fact, those who don't subscribe and choose to pay for each DLC and buy Crowns instead, they PAY MORE THAN YOU and your nominal sum. So who are you to declare that they dont have a voice? Their wallets say plenty.

rich.magab14a_ESO

Wolfshead wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

I've seen this mentioned a few times in various threads now, so i'll clarify some here. Imperial City is meant for the PVP player - it's their turn for some love. If you love PVE and are clamoring for more of that type of content, the Orsinium DLC will be exactly what you want.

Wait now what frack love have PvE community got last 8 month to me info the have got as little love as PvP community we have see no content up for at least last 8 month and ZoS have stomach to say "PvP player - it's their trun for some love" serious ZoS name one thing the PvE community have got in last 8 month and dont come here tell me that item in crown store is thing for PvE community for PvP community benefit as much for those item as well.

So what ZoS PvE communtiy have grind Craglorn to get VR 16 until you guys feel it is time get release Orsinium DLC come on now you add 2 new VR lvl and then you expect half of playerbase grinder those 2 lvl and you hope people wont stop play ESO for the hate grinder??

Hope for you sake ZoS that Orsinium DLC within the next 2 month after that Imperial City DLC is out or i tihnk you will lose more player.

PVP has had no update what so ever. PVE has had 2 installments of craglorn, vet dungeons and undaunted dailies. So yes PVP needed some love

Romo

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

A little history lesson from DAoC.....

SUMMARY: Both PvErs and PvPers LOVED Darkness Falls.


DETAIL: Darkness Falls ("DF") was a favorite piece of content for both PvErs and PvPers, at least in the beginning.

Each realm started from a different location in the zone. When ownership was about to change, PvPers from the current owning realm flooded DF. After DF changed hands, PvPers AND PvErs from the new owning realm flooded DF, usually greatly outnumbering the previously owning realm. Many pure PvErs got the heck out before PvP happened (with some exceptions for raids).

The mobs were rather tightly packed and you could not stealth past many of them. If you wanted to get anywhere quickly, you had to run with a group, or trail a group. Solo gankers were often either pinned to a location or had to take hours to travel between points.

The mob difficulty grew the deeper you went until even large raids took time to move around. When PvErs went deep enough, away from either start point, they were fairly immune to PvP as the mobs repopped behind. The mobs were tough enough that they acted as a shield layer. Usually, one person in a raid was assigned as a spotter, and even if PvPers made it deep down, they would often be wiped by PvErs while pulling mobs to get to the PvErs. I mainly PvP'd and there were parts of DF I never saw except through posted pics.

It took the enemy about 20-30 min to cross from one start point to another after a change in ownership when there was little resistance, sometimes hours at primetime when resistance was high. In the process, most of the opposing realm was wiped out - releasing meant you were locked out.

Many times the majority of people from the previously owning realm would run back to their start point for a last stand. Rezzing was permitted and the start points could not be breached (except by exploiters who were eventually banned), so quite a bit of action. Siege was also permitted. Sometimes PvP continued for hours at the previous owner's start point. However, grouped PvErs could merrily go about their business shortly after the changeover.

I say 'start point' and not 'spawn point' because even if you owned DF, if you released, you respawned outside of DF and had to travel back. Led to serious contemplation, when another realm was close to taking DF, as to whether you should respawn or wait and hope you get rezzed.

Solo PvErs were subject to being killed by stealthers even after the clearing out part, because if you logged out in DF, you could log back into DF, even if ownership had switched hands. However, once the stealthers started killing, owning realm PvPers would fix the problem. Very crafty stealthers could be a pain, but ESO has different stealth mechanics.

DF was implemented incredibly well. If IC follows in the footsteps of DF, it could be loved by all.

Yes was a very fun thing.

But there was no "griefing, you lost nothing on being killed, except time.

So if it followed in the footsteps of Darkness falls, I'd still be subbed(runs out Sept. 1) and I'd be buying the expansion too.

Now I'll just wander in and out of the game to see if anyone has come to their senses.

rich.magab14a_ESO

You know vet dungeons are leveling as well and there are going to be new unduanted sets, so you pvers dont have as much to cry about as you think

Ehbuse

This is care beaR PVP.. Try playing tibia where you did and lose 40 hours of grinding

Or someone glitches you to get red skull and you lose everything

olemanwinter

The problem I have with this is the 6 keep requirement to access IC.

As a DC player, that means IF I home on the main server, thereby limiting myself to zerg-lag pvp, I can maybe access IC half the time at best (and unfortunately for me, not the 1/2 of the day I usually play)

If I play on any server other than Azura's Star.....zero chance I can ever access this PAID FOR dlc.

That's absurd.

Enodoc

olemanwinter wrote: »

The problem I have with this is the 6 keep requirement to access IC.

As a DC player, that means IF I home on the main server, thereby limiting myself to zerg-lag pvp, I can maybe access IC half the time at best (and unfortunately for me, not the 1/2 of the day I usually play)

If I play on any server other than Azura's Star.....zero chance I can ever access this PAID FOR dlc.

That's absurd.

The number of keeps required for access has not been finalised yet:

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

So a question for either ZOS_GinaBruno or ZOS_BrianWheeler - does the paywall mean that ownership of specific keeps in Cyrodiil to gain access is no longer on the agenda?

On PTS we will be testing access the following access rules and deciding if certain campaigns have different Access rules or be universal across all Campaigns:

• Everyone has Access
• Access granted by owning your native 6 keeps
• Access granted by owning your native 6 keeps + 1 enemy keep
• Access granted by owning the majority of keeps

For clarification, "Access" means the doors in Cyrodiil around Lake Rumare (non slaughterfish side) that let you into the Sewers/City will let you click on them to go into the Sewers/City or not. These entrances will also be highlighted on your Cyrodiil map.

Romo

Korozenn wrote: »

.... It will also take less XP to rank up from VR1 to VR16 than it did for VR1 to VR14 due to the new system in place.

Hope that clears things up.

Not really, it is still a hill to climb from V1 to the end point.

To reach the end point now is less than before, an amazing really impactful amount.

250,000

13,000,000 before the new VR level, 12,750,000 now.... hmmm... all those guys coming back because grind to end game is easier, really gonna be impressed.

Samadhi

Pallmor wrote: »

JMadFour wrote: »

If you need to loot stuff from someone's corpse to justify PVP, then the game is not the problem.

I disturbs me just how many players relish in the idea of screwing over other players. There was a guy on the TESO Nation podcast this week who was virtually jumping up and down at the thought of how many players he was going to screw over and gank when IC came out. If that's the kind of person who is going to be in IC, I'm glad ZOS made it clear for me to wait for Orsinium. No desire to go there at all now. I deal with enough sociopaths IRL, thank you very much.

Am glad you are mature enough to abstain from going to Imperial City.
Wish more people could hold a respectful and understanding approach to the situation.

Would prefer that everyone who does not want to PvP at all, does not go into the PvP zone and then complain about dying.
Do not want to have to concern myself with upsetting them by killing them because they did not understand the rules and mechanics of PvP content, and went there expecting to PvE instead.

Anyone who is interested in PvP is welcomed with open arms though.

I score as a sociopath on the applicable tests, but do not score high enough to constitute a psychopath. Both sociopaths and psychopaths have brains that are underdeveloped in the area associated with empathy; however, sociopaths intellectually comprehend morality, but have a moral compass that is slightly skewed (frequently, though not exclusively, caused by abusive upbringings) whereas psychopaths lack any sense of morality or fear.
It is unfortunate that you find dealing with people like me objectionable based on a condition we have no genuine control over, but do not blame you for it. The nature of the developmental issues associated with such a condition are often quite caustic. In its nature it is an abnormality in the brain that prevents the forming of emotional connections with others.

Players playing a game the way it is designed to be played is not a test of whether or not someone is a sociopath though.

delushin

Is text chat for consoles coming with IC?

My main concern is not getting ganked but its getting ganked and having people type out a message telling me that I got ganked hard using a controller.

TBois

olemanwinter wrote: »

The problem I have with this is the 6 keep requirement to access IC.

As a DC player, that means IF I home on the main server, thereby limiting myself to zerg-lag pvp, I can maybe access IC half the time at best (and unfortunately for me, not the 1/2 of the day I usually play)

If I play on any server other than Azura's Star.....zero chance I can ever access this PAID FOR dlc.

That's absurd.

We will have to wait and see how the new home and guest campaign system will fair for the faction balance of campaigns before any judgement on how easy it is to enter IC will be.