So, You have no reason to buy Imperial City if you dont like PVP. Period.

Samadhi

marco.cuevas.ventob14_ESO wrote: »

Great Job in creating this community divided environment ZOS of PVE Vs PVP I just started playing the game since Beta
and truly this is just down right pathetic

Can agree, it is troubling.

The real issue is one of Solo PvE players not receiving content due to all added PvE content emphasizing Group settings.

That anyone managed to frame it as an issue of PvP obstructing PvE to begin with is quite impressive. ZOS really created an attention-getting system.

Know it has certainly gotten the attention of a number of my friends who previously left ESO because of ZOS' disregard for PvP, but are now planning on coming back if this system really makes it into game and provides a new playstyle for them aside from Staleodiil.

DDuke

marco.cuevas.ventob14_ESO wrote: »

Great Job in creating this community divided environment ZOS of PVE Vs PVP I just started playing the game since Beta
and truly this is just down right pathetic

For once I must say it's not the fault of ZOS, but that of some of the players.

Never have I witnessed entitlement in the quantities, and I've been through quite a few MMOs.

Did people start crying when Blizzard added BGs to WoW? Same patch contained basicly absolutely nothing for PvErs.
No, they didn't.

This was some 10 years ago and it seems the MMO community has managed to attract some bad apples since then.

Vahrokh

DDuke wrote: »

marco.cuevas.ventob14_ESO wrote: »

Great Job in creating this community divided environment ZOS of PVE Vs PVP I just started playing the game since Beta
and truly this is just down right pathetic

For once I must say it's not the fault of ZOS, but that of some of the players.

Never have I witnessed entitlement in the quantities, and I've been through quite a few MMOs.

Did people start crying when Blizzard added BGs to WoW? Same patch contained basicly absolutely nothing for PvErs.
No, they didn't.

This was some 10 years ago and it seems the MMO community has managed to attract some bad apples since then.

Here's the list of materials and PvE gear dropping in said WoW BGs:





Here's the amount of usable / craftable items / materials you got when looting someone you killed in said WoW BGs:

Sharee

Pallmor wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

Its crazy how some of you are still crying like pre-pubescent girls over these stones.

Either grow a pair, and come on in and join us in IC, or honestly, just stfu with the crying....we dont want to hear it anymore, you sound pathetic.

The irony of posts like these is that I suspect that, when IC is actually released, it's going to be the PvPers who are on this forum crying the loudest. Right now you're all celebrating because, in your head, you're going to be the awesome ganker who gets all the stones. But when you all actually get in there and start getting ganked yourselves, I bet you'll be the first ones to run to the forums crying and demanding nerfs (because the guy who killed you MUST have been using a exploit or OP skill, right?).

You don't know PvP players very well if you think they are going to start complaining and demanding nerfs once imperial city comes out.

We do it constantly, all the time!

markt84

Vahrokh wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

marco.cuevas.ventob14_ESO wrote: »

Great Job in creating this community divided environment ZOS of PVE Vs PVP I just started playing the game since Beta
and truly this is just down right pathetic

For once I must say it's not the fault of ZOS, but that of some of the players.

Never have I witnessed entitlement in the quantities, and I've been through quite a few MMOs.

Did people start crying when Blizzard added BGs to WoW? Same patch contained basicly absolutely nothing for PvErs.
No, they didn't.

This was some 10 years ago and it seems the MMO community has managed to attract some bad apples since then.

Here's the list of materials and PvE gear dropping in said WoW BGs:





Here's the amount of usable / craftable items / materials you got when looting someone you killed in said WoW BGs:

Here is a list of all the v16 PvE content that will be found outside of IC.

killingspreeb16_ESO

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Its funny how some of my posts got deleted because of reason:

"We do not allow posts that are created for the sole purpose of provoking conflict, shocking others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction."

While ZOS themselfs introduce to game a new mechanic that is vulnerable to:
- provoke conflict between players
- can be shocking to others
- can elict a strong negative or emotional reaction
And ZOS post threads about this new mechanic.


Their goal "is to create a fun, welcoming, and safe environment for The Elder Scrolls Online community" yet they introduce and promote a feature that will encourage harassment and poison interaction and relationship between players.

Can say the same for the CP system you still defend them,adapt or leave are the usually the answer you get if you complain about CP
Be consistent with your opinion,and GIVE IT A TRY when the update is on the PTS.

DDuke

Vahrokh wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

marco.cuevas.ventob14_ESO wrote: »

Great Job in creating this community divided environment ZOS of PVE Vs PVP I just started playing the game since Beta
and truly this is just down right pathetic

For once I must say it's not the fault of ZOS, but that of some of the players.

Never have I witnessed entitlement in the quantities, and I've been through quite a few MMOs.

Did people start crying when Blizzard added BGs to WoW? Same patch contained basicly absolutely nothing for PvErs.
No, they didn't.

This was some 10 years ago and it seems the MMO community has managed to attract some bad apples since then.

Here's the list of materials and PvE gear dropping in said WoW BGs:





Here's the amount of usable / craftable items / materials you got when looting someone you killed in said WoW BGs:

Here's the list of confirmed PvE gear dropping in PvP portions of Imperial City:








Here's the amount of usable / craftable items / materials you get when looting someone you killed in Imperial City:







Here's a list of PvE gear dropping outside PvP potions of Imperial City:
AA/Hel Ra sets
SO sets
Dungeon sets
Craglorn sets








I fail to see what your point is.

DDuke

markt84 wrote: »

Vahrokh wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

marco.cuevas.ventob14_ESO wrote: »

Great Job in creating this community divided environment ZOS of PVE Vs PVP I just started playing the game since Beta
and truly this is just down right pathetic

For once I must say it's not the fault of ZOS, but that of some of the players.

Never have I witnessed entitlement in the quantities, and I've been through quite a few MMOs.

Did people start crying when Blizzard added BGs to WoW? Same patch contained basicly absolutely nothing for PvErs.
No, they didn't.

This was some 10 years ago and it seems the MMO community has managed to attract some bad apples since then.

Here's the list of materials and PvE gear dropping in said WoW BGs:





Here's the amount of usable / craftable items / materials you got when looting someone you killed in said WoW BGs:

Here is a list of all the v16 PvE content that will be found outside of IC.

• Every 4-man group content in game (they all scale to V16, gear included)
• 2 PvE Group Dungeons in Imperial City
• Trial scaling not confirmed (yet), but probable

Fixed that for you.

Samadhi

.

Vahrokh wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

marco.cuevas.ventob14_ESO wrote: »

Great Job in creating this community divided environment ZOS of PVE Vs PVP I just started playing the game since Beta
and truly this is just down right pathetic

For once I must say it's not the fault of ZOS, but that of some of the players.

Never have I witnessed entitlement in the quantities, and I've been through quite a few MMOs.

Did people start crying when Blizzard added BGs to WoW? Same patch contained basicly absolutely nothing for PvErs.
No, they didn't.

This was some 10 years ago and it seems the MMO community has managed to attract some bad apples since then.

Here's the list of materials and PvE gear dropping in said WoW BGs:





Here's the amount of usable / craftable items / materials you got when looting someone you killed in said WoW BGs:

Here's a list of materials and PvE gears dropping in Imperial City PvP areas:
- possibly deconstructable PvE gears



Here's a list of those same potential materials and PvE gears that risk being dropped on PvP death:




Here's a list of materials and PvE gears dropping in PvE Dungeons inside and outside Imperial City:
- v16 deconstructable gears
- v16 gear sets
- (not a drop but still PvE related) new Undaunted sets from Undaunted Pledges



Here's a list of those same materials and PvE gears dropping on PvP death if, for any reason, the player who earned them went to Imperial City PvP areas:




Here's a list of new PvP currencies dropping in Imperial City PvP areas:
- Tel Var Stones



Here's a list of all items that drop on PvP player death:
- Tel Var Stones




Here's a list of people who I know have previously spent AP (old PvP currency) on gears to deconstruct for crafting materials:




Here's a list of logical reasons to try and stockpile PvP currency to buy individual items to deconstruct for crafting materials:




Here's a list of good reasons to make a post full of arbitrary lists:
Lists are fun.

Pallmor

Here's a list of things I like:

1) Puppies
2) Rainbows
3) Kisses

HobnailedBoots

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Is it so hard to just let PvP players enjoy the only piece of new content they will probably ever see?

So unless you can gank newbs and steal their stuff you cant enjoy IC? Is that what you are saying?

Yes, killing people and taking their stones is indeed a very important part of the Imperial City DLC. A lot of PvP players have been wanting an actual penalty to dying and this seems to provide just that.

Deal with it.

No I wont deal with it as many many other players will not. As you see by this thread even other pvp centered players hate this idea. I guarantee it will be changed or I guarantee you wont have anyone to gank and steal their stuff. The place will be deserted and you and your gank buddies will have to start killing each other.

I mean how sad is it you cannot enjoy yourself without abusing other people.

If you don't want to deal with, then don't play this DLC. It's been stated over and over that this is PvP content. I don't want to deal with braindead repetitve dungeons and ridiculous questlines, so I don't. I also don't go to the forums demanding more PvP in my PvE.

Deal with it.

Story driven quest lines is what elder scrolls is all about. If you want a hardcore pvp game go find one. Also I am going to mark this so I can come back and say "I told ya so" when they remove the whole looting of stones thing.

This is The Elder Scrolls Online and the PvP has been heavily featured in all the marketing material and ZOS has even stated it considers the PvP 'end-game'.

The fact that your personal views on what constitutes an Elder Scrolls game are different does not change anything about it. You can always go play Skyrim with its focus on 'story driven quest lines' that all involve going somewhere, pressing a button and killing 50 Draugr.

You can have pvp without looting other players.

But I don't want to, ZOS doesn't want to and it seems a lot of PvP players don't want to. The fact that PvE players want it to be this way is just not that important, since this content is not meant for them.

One day you will learn its not all about you.

The irony is strong in this comment

Samadhi

Pallmor wrote: »

Here's a list of things I like:

1) Puppies
2) Rainbows
3) Kisses

I like all of those as well, but would include
- kittens, piglets, and bunnies with the puppies.
- The rains and storms that cause the rainbows (though moisture in the atmosphere tends to make my joints seize up)
- And kisses are best when hugs are also involved.

MsPtibiscuit

MaximusDargus wrote: »

Its funny how some of my posts got deleted because of reason:

"We do not allow posts that are created for the sole purpose of provoking conflict, shocking others, or to elicit a strong negative or emotional reaction."

While ZOS themselfs introduce to game a new mechanic that is vulnerable to:
- provoke conflict between players
- can be shocking to others
- can elict a strong negative or emotional reaction
And ZOS post threads about this new mechanic.


Their goal "is to create a fun, welcoming, and safe environment for The Elder Scrolls Online community" yet they introduce and promote a feature that will encourage harassment and poison interaction and relationship between players.

We should also delete the Elder Scroll Mechanic.
I mean, when you kill the Elder Scroll bearer, you're basically ripping him of his reward !! He was entitled to the achievement and the AP !! He will probably feel bad when he gets killed !!

J2JMC

You know, now that I think about it, I hope IC is a ghostown. The minute I hear nobody goes to IC I'm buying the DLC and farming the mobs for stones. Think I'm going to make an EP character since they have a buff server on PS4.

I mean, god damn it IC is going to be filled with millions of gankers. Nobody buy it. Don't let the gankers win!!!!!!

Zusia211

I guess I will be getting it only since I am a ESO subscriber, but usually not a huge fan of PvP. Might devote some more time to PvP, but the few times I went in didn't make me want to return...

wraith808

alainjbrennanb16_ESO wrote: »

here we go again pvpers ranting then stay out of there its time we pvper's had some luving, granted they do but for gods sake pvpers like me, then i have one question for you and its a big one, are you ready for it here it comes and its a big one a really big one,

If ic is only ment for pvpers like me who is quite good in there, then who will be going in to the pve dungeons in the centre of ic, why would zos put pve stuff in the centre of ic if it was ment for pvper's hang on a min something is coming to me

oh that's it zos touted ic as both pvp and pve but this thing of pve care bear is quite insulting i really enjoy both sides of the game but i have one big concern about the ic and thats not the pvper's say this is ment for us when clearly it's not with the pve content in it and the pver's saying why put the pve content in the centre of ic

my simple concern is that ic is going to turn in to one massive gank feast, i can quite asure it will, with these stones, and the other thing i can quite asure you is that the first time i get ganked (which you can quite clearly see thats what they are doing) i will call for my guild and god help that ganker, they will have 500 people on them everytime they enter ic or any part of the zone

People like me who live for the days where we see opposing faction in a delve. Especially when we're in the middle of a boss fight and they show up and try to surprise us and we wipe the whole opposing group AND the boss.

There's more types than two if you get outside of the box.

markt84

I see a tone of threads on here of PvE players saying they want more of a challenge. Well here it is, you're maxed at v14 and you can do v16 dungeons. Zos nailed this, PvE players get the challenge they have been crying for, and PvP players get their much needed content. Everyone wins. Oh yeah, now PvE players want to be a higher level and get higher level gear as well, kinda kills the whole I want more of a challenge argument

FireCowCommando

Its really too bad they took out the lol option for peoples posts. I Imagine Gina and other ZoS employees reading some of the posts here with a big grin as the vocal few paint the world as if it's on fire.

tpanisiakb16_ESO

This logic falls apart when you consider that V16 is now the new max level cap and likely means the current gear we have is obsolete at IC's launch.

It's not about us PVE'ers, truly, but I still can't help but feel ZOS is trying to force PvP into PvE'ers, and it's pretty sad. Yes Brian, I know Cyrodiil is there and yes I have tried it enough to progress to Caltrops. No Brian, I could care less for it; I'm not good at PvPing and the current situation is not alluring in the least to me to try and up my skills in a zone with exploits, lag, and perma rollers.

No ZOS, I don't appreciate the hefty tanking nerf that interferes with my PvE game. I'd surely like to know how you plan on letting tanks deal with gankers now that we can't put out damage or take it, either.

I'm glad PvP has some love, but I just wish it wouldn't interfere with what makes the game exciting to me: PvE.

hiyde

Samadhi wrote: »

The thing you may have to come to terms with is that Tel Var Stones are not going to be an adequate source of crafting mats for anyone regardless of skill at PvP.

Not aware of any PvP player who uses his or her AP to buy PvP gear sets to deconstruct for materials.
If anything, they sell the sets for gold and use that gold to buy materials.

The system obstructing you from gaining crafting materials easily is the system that gives reliance on Group PvE.
The PvP system (Tel Var Stones) is not what is interfering with your progress.

I thought (and I could be wrong, please correct me if so) that the stones could be traded directly for craft mats at an NPC.

So..the only way to get mats to craft *base gear* with is NPC item drops via decon? That's even more disappointing, as it will limit (and raise the price of) these mats at Guild Kiosks even further.

hiyde

Samadhi wrote: »

Using the lack of Solo PvE as a justification to nerf a PvP system shows a lack of consideration for the likes and point of view of PvP players who have been waiting for ages for new PvP content though.

I'm not looking for a nerf to a PvP system. (and my OP makes that clear).

I personally don't like any lootable player scenario but don't begrudge it to those that do. I think it would be a better system if whatever loot drops was exclusively related to PvP. A player loot system that helps you PvP sounds awesome. Dragging in non-pvp'ers into it as the best way to get craft mats is not. (in my opinion)

My suggestion was to add some solo PvE daily instances to get craft mats for *base* VR16 gear.

That would cover all 3 types of players (PvP, Groupers and Solo players) when it comes to getting basic materials.

And again, I don't expect to gain the best PvE group gear or PvP gear from solo play. But I should be able to collect basic mats for crafted gear from solo play.

-H

MrGhosty

angel59 wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Tel Var stones are a PvP system. If you do not want to engage in PvP over stones, do not enter the map where stones are the primary impetus for combat.

No, Tel Var stones are in a PVP area, they are not a PVP system. If this was truly a PVP system, then AP should be the loot-able currency in IC (however, not outside of IC in Cyrodiil so PVP can collect them without fear of losing them). That would be a real risk/reward for PVP'ers. Why add a new currency to buy items that may be of interest to PVE when there is already a currency that can be used? It seems to me that ZOS, regardless of what they may say, intended to invite PVE into the city by offering something that can only be obtained in IC. We don't even know what all the new sets are (unless I missed the list and details) and they may be very useful for PVE. I wont believe this is only PVP until I see that the sets in IC are only useful in IC.

PvE players are the PvP players content. We are the pinata. I don't mind the fact I'm being turned into tasty bits for the PvPers to nibble on though. I do mind being expected to pay 25 bucks for the privilege, hence why I shall be voting with my wallet and wishing everyone the best

*edit: Too many thoughs, though

hammayolettuce

Wait until those who don't PvP go up against players like this who always adjust their builds and actually know how to pvp using keen senses and situational awareness and for months and months have been doing nothing but 1vX PvP.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CtxaXmRk4IE

MrGhosty

Septimus_Magna wrote: »

Here's a nice comparison, all previous updates added content just for PVEers and no content for PVPers. Now the first PVP content update comes with 2 normal and 2 veteran dungeons for PVEers but they complain there's not enough PVE content in the PVP update. How about there hasnt been a single PVP update so be glad they're adding PVE content.

Beyond finishing craglorn, adding a couple trials, and vet DSA what content wasn't also for PvPers? I don't count the undaunted stuff as that is largely just an extra bit of UI over the top of existing dungeons with some new hats, but beyond that we're ALL starved for new content. Now the PvE vs PvP camps are busily duking it out over who is more entitled to what and we're failing to recognize the bigger issues and rail against that instead. IC should have also seen Orsinium Launched at the same time with both packs included for the price of IC. This way PvP gets some much needed love and those who prefer to keep questing and playing along they also get something new and shiny with some other special armor types to hunt for. Everyone wins.

For frame of reference, I do PvP just not a lot as the combo of Cyro servers and my own less than stellar net connection make getting much actually accomplished all but impossible. Now it's no one else's fault my net sucks but mine and my ISP(very little choice in the boonies) but that doesn't make the prospect of having content I won't be able to reasonably acquire being put behind a paywall and an extremely aggressive loss rate. Sadly it will be what ZOS decides, I don't honestly believe they will stick one direction or the other just on our clever words alone. The only thing we can do to try and support whichever side we believe to be the way to go, is get into IC on the PTS asap and give them the data to make the decision for themselves.

Ysne58

DDuke wrote: »

Ysne58 wrote: »

The biggest problem with your analysis, is you don't know how large the population of ESO players is. For that reason alone, your analysis fails.

I don't know how many people who no longer subscribe are going to choose not to purchase that content. I do know some of them are not going to purchase.

I also don't know how many of the people who still subscribe will play, nor do I know how many will decide this poor decision on the part of ZOS to encourage poor behavior will be the last straw. It's going to be interesting to find out. However, your poll is no more accurate than anything a "psychic" would predict.

Sigh...

You don't need to know the total population to determine public opinion. That's kind of the point of margin of error.
Again, I advise you to read how science works in this instance rather than coming up with your own conclusions.

But lets assume this game had 10 million players (more than generous). With that number, we can still set the margin of error to 6.5%.

Here, have a calculator: http://www.polarismr.com/polaris-help-center/stat-calc-margin-of-error


Next time before commenting & making a fool of yourself, study how things work in the real world.

You are missing a key of my quote, which I added less than 5 minutes after I posted.

This is not a random sample. Which also makes what you are claiming false. I'm not the one making a fool of myself. You are, by claiming it's even possible for a forum pole that a fraction of the people who visit the forums voted on somehow makes a valid sample for the whole of the ESO world. There is absolutely no way this can work as valid statistical sample. This is not a random sample. At best it might reflect the buying habits of the people who post here, and even that is problematic.

The number of people voting in the poll is simply too small a sample and not random enough to give you any valuable information on a much larger group that you have no way finding out the size of. The fact that you use wikipedia as your source material also reflects poorly on you. In essence you are posting nonvalid and possibly false information. Do please remember that posting false information violates the TOS.

edited to fix the typos i could find.

Selique

Everyone breaks this into two groups: PvPer or PvEr... Each wants their own content.

BUT did any of you think about the PvPvEr? Such as myself? Who enjoys BOTH aspects, MIXED together AND separate? Am I NOT allowed to get a patch with some content for once?

wraith808

@Ysne58 - I agree with the substance of your post, but couldn't get myself to hit agree because of some of the non-sequiturs you threw in.

k2blader

DDuke wrote: »

marco.cuevas.ventob14_ESO wrote: »

Great Job in creating this community divided environment ZOS of PVE Vs PVP I just started playing the game since Beta
and truly this is just down right pathetic

For once I must say it's not the fault of ZOS, but that of some of the players.

Never have I witnessed entitlement in the quantities, and I've been through quite a few MMOs.

Did people start crying when Blizzard added BGs to WoW? Same patch contained basicly absolutely nothing for PvErs.
No, they didn't.

This was some 10 years ago and it seems the MMO community has managed to attract some bad apples since then.

Interesting thought. When I began playing WoW BGs were already in the game though it wasn't yet cross-server and was thus that much more fun IMO.

Anyway, yeah, I agree in that the community is just not what it used to be. I really think it's a generational thing.

Ysne58

wraith808 wrote: »

@Ysne58 - I agree with the substance of your post, but couldn't get myself to hit agree because of some of the non-sequiturs you threw in.

I've been trying to break myself of that habit, because those actually detract from the message I'm trying to convey.

Samadhi

hiyde wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

The thing you may have to come to terms with is that Tel Var Stones are not going to be an adequate source of crafting mats for anyone regardless of skill at PvP.

Not aware of any PvP player who uses his or her AP to buy PvP gear sets to deconstruct for materials.
If anything, they sell the sets for gold and use that gold to buy materials.

The system obstructing you from gaining crafting materials easily is the system that gives reliance on Group PvE.
The PvP system (Tel Var Stones) is not what is interfering with your progress.

I thought (and I could be wrong, please correct me if so) that the stones could be traded directly for craft mats at an NPC.

So..the only way to get mats to craft *base gear* with is NPC item drops via decon? That's even more disappointing, as it will limit (and raise the price of) these mats at Guild Kiosks even further.

Only caught mention of the stones being for gears themselves.
Possibly could have missed mention of the materials being available though.

If that is the case, then it would reinforce my suggestion from a few days ago that ZOS should draw from GTA: Online in terms of not having Cash (or, in this case, stones) drop while the player is carrying an amount below a certain threshold. Since the bankable amount is 50, would make sense for drops to begin above that point.
So long as materials are less than 50 stones on the trade, this would allow safe carrying of stones for crafting materials while still preserving the risk/reward of the system when working towards the quantities necessary for gears. That the stones could still be dropped at and above the bankable threshold, and provide bonuses for holding large sums, would mean that PvP gears still need to be properly earned.

hiyde wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Using the lack of Solo PvE as a justification to nerf a PvP system shows a lack of consideration for the likes and point of view of PvP players who have been waiting for ages for new PvP content though.

I'm not looking for a nerf to a PvP system. (and my OP makes that clear).

I personally don't like any lootable player scenario but don't begrudge it to those that do. I think it would be a better system if whatever loot drops was exclusively related to PvP. A player loot system that helps you PvP sounds awesome. Dragging in non-pvp'ers into it as the best way to get craft mats is not. (in my opinion)

My suggestion was to add some solo PvE daily instances to get craft mats for *base* VR16 gear.

That would cover all 3 types of players (PvP, Groupers and Solo players) when it comes to getting basic materials.

And again, I don't expect to gain the best PvE group gear or PvP gear from solo play. But I should be able to collect basic mats for crafted gear from solo play.

-H

My apologies for my lack of clarity.
Do indeed agree with your suggestion of adding meaningful solo PvE content in the update as well. In lieu of that though, altering the PvP system is not ideal, though it is frequently suggested.
New solo instances would be the most ideal, but not sure how prepared or capable ZOS is to add such an instance in.