So, You have no reason to buy Imperial City if you dont like PVP. Period.

milkbox

The Uninvited

sirhctpac wrote: »

Eh? I would assume that since they're for V16 gear, they'd only drop in vet campaigns.
If necessary the stones, perhaps even the gear could be character bound; it's a far lesser evil than a system that actively rewards griefing like vamp/wolf bite.
(And before someone says it, when stolen they'd obviously delete from your character and reward your killer with his own newly generated ones should a bind mechanic be implemented.)

Imperial City is accesible from level 10 and up, as far as I know. So that means the stones will also drop for non-veterans.

Samadhi

helediron wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

Syntse wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

The PvP players would be in Cyrodiil and the PvE players would be in the dungeons.
There would be no more reward associated with the risk, because the PvP gears would be cheap and freely available to PvP players without having to even enter Imperial City to engage in PvP -- they would be flooding the guild traders.
Save money and stick to Cyrodiil at that point.

Since there would be no reward, there would also be no real risk.
Dropping stones to another player would be trivial because the gear would have no real value anyway.
Since the system would provide nothing in terms of new gameplay, it would provide no incentive to buy the DLC.

I associate the reward to the stones not gear as gear can be useless anyway for all we know. So what you are saying even the PvP gamers would not risk to reward unless they are forced into it. And that they would go spending gold to buy stuff instead of playing the game and game mode they have been waiting for.

PvP for stones --> Sell gear --> Buy potions/ingredients --> Spend more time in PvP and less time farming in non-PvP zones and activities.
Facilitates the cycle that allows me to stay active in PvP, rather than having to go farm in other game modes in order to keep PvPing.
Similar to AP, but more exciting to participate in due to the risk/reward factor.

You're right though, the gear could be useless and people making a fuss about how the system needs to change so they can get the gears with no risk could be making that fuss over nothing.

Same kind of cycle works for PvE too. If we forget the PvP side from IC for a moment, the TV stone system would be a great improvement for PvE. The non-sellable RNG loot as end reward from dungeons is much hated. When i first time heard about TV stones, i thought FINALLY we get token system. That system should be in PvE dungeons regardless PvP. Forcing ZOS to make that means much ado.

If we forget the PvP side of Imperial City for a moment, then we can acknowledge and list systems that ought to be put in to PvE by Orsinium at the latest, rather than hijacked from PvP players.

The cycle was listed as a way to remain active in PvP without having to farm PvE zones.
The person I was responding to said PvP should be its own reward. Tel Var Stones facilitate this, by meaning the more successful someone is in PvP the longer they get to stay there.

If I were a pure-PvE player, would be farming my needs for potions and everything in pure-PvE zones, instead of the sell gear portion of the cycle.
The farming would be part of the PvE itself, in the same way that Tel Var stones are an integral part of the PvP itself.
Alchemy ingredients are abundant through PvE zones, that is why I am stuck going there for them instead of searching Cyrodiil as it is.

Can agree that there should be a similar Token system (though, obviously, not the exact same in order to preserve the reward factor of the gears for both groups) for dungeons or Orsinium.
Would be in support of threads asking for such -- not in support of destroying the PvP side of the system though. The system has been designed and implemented to provide risk/reward factors to PvP; players thinking that something similar would work in PvE provides them with good reason to ask for such, but does not entitle them to call for nerfs or dismantling of the existing PvP system design to satisfy that role.

Pallmor

Dru1076 wrote: »

But if you want into the sewers (apparently PVE zones) your alliance has to maintain control over keeps? So... If that's right...I'd be buying a zone I need to then earn my way into?

Just create an EP character. Then you never have to worry about being part of a faction that can't even hold 6 keeps.

tpanisiakb16_ESO

Hope499 wrote: »

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm glad PvP has some love, but I just wish it wouldn't interfere with what makes the game exciting to me: PvE.

Its not, its PvP content, so it has absolutely nothing to do with PvE.

Its already been advertised as PvP content.

PvE crybabies, GO AWAY and sush it, the tissues are running low on this thread.

That's not the point. They can make an entire expansion dedicated 100% to PvP and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. What bothers me is how much this PvP-focused patch cuts into PvE. The VR16 increase, the endgame gear meta that is (probably) tied up in TV Stones, how new crafting mats come from IC, how obsolete tanking now is (stam nerf) due to PvP abuse. Etc., etc. As a PvE'er I am feeling rather forced into needing to PvP to progress. These game styles should not be one and the same. If I wanted a PvP focused game I'd be playing DOTA2 or LoL or Smite, or .... anything but boring Lagrodiil. I mean, who isn't excited about Emp flipping and keep zergs? So much skill.

Read my entire post next time before you snip one line from it. I've clearly stated the above.

DDuke

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm glad PvP has some love, but I just wish it wouldn't interfere with what makes the game exciting to me: PvE.

Its not, its PvP content, so it has absolutely nothing to do with PvE.

Its already been advertised as PvP content.

PvE crybabies, GO AWAY and sush it, the tissues are running low on this thread.

Read my entire post next time before you snip one line from it. I've clearly stated the above.

Hey, I'm not the one you were answering to, but let me skip the speculation & snip one line from your post (don't worry, I read it entirely).

If I wanted a PvP focused game I'd be playing DOTA2 or LoL or Smite, or .... anything but boring Lagrodiil. I mean, who isn't excited about Emp flipping and keep zergs? So much skill.

Many people aren't excited about Emp flipping and keep zergs (me included), and this is the exact reason we're getting a new PvP game mode in form of Imperial City & risk/reward type content.

It is also very possible ZOS is trying to attract people who enjoyed DOTA2, LoL or Smite by providing content they can familiarize with: loot coins/stones from mobs & turn them in before enemy players kill you and take them.
One of the most popular game modes in these franchises.

This PvP focused patch doesn't cut into PvE any more than BGs & PvP gear in WoW did.

Unless you know something we don't, regarding the BiS gear & if you have to PvP for it.

Samadhi

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm glad PvP has some love, but I just wish it wouldn't interfere with what makes the game exciting to me: PvE.

Its not, its PvP content, so it has absolutely nothing to do with PvE.

Its already been advertised as PvP content.

PvE crybabies, GO AWAY and sush it, the tissues are running low on this thread.

That's not the point. They can make an entire expansion dedicated 100% to PvP and it wouldn't bother me in the slightest. What bothers me is how much this PvP-focused patch cuts into PvE. The VR16 increase, the endgame gear meta that is (probably) tied up in TV Stones, how new crafting mats come from IC, how obsolete tanking now is (stam nerf) due to PvP abuse. Etc., etc. As a PvE'er I am feeling rather forced into needing to PvP to progress. These game styles should not be one and the same. If I wanted a PvP focused game I'd be playing DOTA2 or LoL or Smite, or .... anything but boring Lagrodiil. I mean, who isn't excited about Emp flipping and keep zergs? So much skill.

Read my entire post next time before you snip one line from it. I've clearly stated the above.

These games didn't do much for me.
The PvP was decently fun, but the sense of characters being thrown away and recycled to level 1 every match killed it.
Without long-term character development, there is so sense of connection to the characters for me. Lose interest no matter how carefully-balanced and appealing the PvP is.
Similarly, not a big fan of shooters, but looking forward to Fallout 4 despite it using guns and having FPS mechanics available.

MOBAs are popular but they are not for everyone.
Personally disliked having to level up my Champion/God every match. Have had friends and roommates who were huge fans of that exact factor though.

Enjoy the sense of progression and character development that comes from an MMORPG.
The experience of seeing how my characters compare with those of other players is exciting -- it's what I wanted back when Skyrim Online was first announced as a mod idea.
Enjoy role-playing as a soldier, a bandit, an adventurer. PvP makes such character choices more meaningful to experience.
The Champion system is too much issue and look forward to it being removed from PvP so PvE players can enjoy their limitless progression while PvP players have more reasonable requirements in reaching equal footing in matches.

If ESO had LoL's amount of players though, we'd possibly have already had everything that was previewed at Quakecon fully funded and released by now.

Can agree that Staleodiil is having issues though; that is a particularly influencing reason to look forward to Imperial City supplying something new.

tpanisiakb16_ESO

DDuke wrote: »

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm glad PvP has some love, but I just wish it wouldn't interfere with what makes the game exciting to me: PvE.

Its not, its PvP content, so it has absolutely nothing to do with PvE.

Its already been advertised as PvP content.

PvE crybabies, GO AWAY and sush it, the tissues are running low on this thread.

Read my entire post next time before you snip one line from it. I've clearly stated the above.

Hey, I'm not the one you were answering to, but let me skip the speculation & snip one line from your post (don't worry, I read it entirely).

If I wanted a PvP focused game I'd be playing DOTA2 or LoL or Smite, or .... anything but boring Lagrodiil. I mean, who isn't excited about Emp flipping and keep zergs? So much skill.

Many people aren't excited about Emp flipping and keep zergs (me included), and this is the exact reason we're getting a new PvP game mode in form of Imperial City & risk/reward type content.

It is also very possible ZOS is trying to attract people who enjoyed DOTA2, LoL or Smite by providing content they can familiarize with: loot coins/stones from mobs & turn them in before enemy players kill you and take them.
One of the most popular game modes in these franchises.

This PvP focused patch doesn't cut into PvE any more than BGs & PvP gear in WoW did.

Unless you know something we don't, regarding the BiS gear & if you have to PvP for it.

Except I was able to go elsewhere in WoW to get crafting mats and gear tokens without needing to PvP. Almost every game keeps PvE and PvP totally separate, I see no reason why ESO is trying to bridge the two play-styles together, especially since it's been a relatively casual game from day one.

EQBallzz

sirhctpac wrote: »

Hmm. You'd think that there would be an easy fix to this that allowed everyone to access the PvE content and discouraged abuse at the same time: everyone's name displays as a color coded "con" when targeted, similar to how quests are color coded, denoting their relative strength to your own. It would take into account vet level, champ points, and alliance rank; anyone displaying grey - as a PvEer always would to a PvPer due to alliance rank - would drop little to no TVs.
I would have thought such a system would be a given but saying, "if you only PvE, this DLC isn't for you" makes me question my assumption.

That's an interesting idea but they could also implement a simpler solution and just allow players to opt-in/opt-out of the player looting portion of the content. To prevent people exploiting it they would need to do it in a specific way like you have to toggle it on/off before entering Cyrodiil and it can't be changed once there or they could do it by campaign and just have some campaigns that have this enabled and others that don't. Side benefit is we would see just how many players really wanted this by the popularity of the campaign types.

DDuke

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

DDuke wrote: »

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm glad PvP has some love, but I just wish it wouldn't interfere with what makes the game exciting to me: PvE.

Its not, its PvP content, so it has absolutely nothing to do with PvE.

Its already been advertised as PvP content.

PvE crybabies, GO AWAY and sush it, the tissues are running low on this thread.

Read my entire post next time before you snip one line from it. I've clearly stated the above.

Hey, I'm not the one you were answering to, but let me skip the speculation & snip one line from your post (don't worry, I read it entirely).

If I wanted a PvP focused game I'd be playing DOTA2 or LoL or Smite, or .... anything but boring Lagrodiil. I mean, who isn't excited about Emp flipping and keep zergs? So much skill.

Many people aren't excited about Emp flipping and keep zergs (me included), and this is the exact reason we're getting a new PvP game mode in form of Imperial City & risk/reward type content.

It is also very possible ZOS is trying to attract people who enjoyed DOTA2, LoL or Smite by providing content they can familiarize with: loot coins/stones from mobs & turn them in before enemy players kill you and take them.
One of the most popular game modes in these franchises.

This PvP focused patch doesn't cut into PvE any more than BGs & PvP gear in WoW did.

Unless you know something we don't, regarding the BiS gear & if you have to PvP for it.

Except I was able to go elsewhere in WoW to get crafting mats and gear tokens without needing to PvP. Almost every game keeps PvE and PvP totally separate, I see no reason why ESO is trying to bridge the two play-styles together, especially since it's been a relatively casual game from day one.

You can get crafting mats by deconstructing VR15-16 gear (drops in every PvE group dungeon as well).
You can get the Tel Var stone gear by purchasing it with gold or farming TV Stones (PvP mechanic).

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/199489/itemization-for-the-imperial-city-dlc-base-game-patch


As to your comment of "every game keeping PvE and PvP separate", that is just bs.

A major part of MOBA games revolves around killing mobs & bosses (PvE) and as for MMOs, most of them have contested zones where you can get attacked while questing or grinding.
As to how PvE has been encorporated in PvP centric content (instead of vice versa): Alterac Valley, Wintergrasp & Ashran from WoW are good examples of this (and Cyrodiil in ESO).

Vahrokh

sirhctpac wrote: »

I only did a find on page search on each page of this thread for it so I apologize if I missed someone making my point.
This DLC is a direct rip off of Warhammer Online's first content patch: land of the dead. Every detail is the same; gaining entrance though traditional PvP thus locking out the opposing faction, PvE content within the area, new advancement based on LotD content, EVERYTHING! The only way for there to be PvP with in IC itself is if the faction that loses control stays in until they're killed. In warhammer this lead to the most fun I had in the game: running a small gank squad when our faction got kicked out and taking on much larger, less organized groups. One problem: it killed the game because the faction with control instantly ported to LotD, ignoring the traditional PvP thus triggering an endless cycle of undefended LotD unlocks followed by a short burst of PvP upon the zone unlock, then passing the ball to the kicked out faction. Cool eh?
The only possible saving grace for this might be the fact that there's 3 factions. Everything hinges on the unlock protocol.
Just my two cents.

1 awesome from me. I loved Warhammer so much, if it'd still be running I'd know where to put ESO and 5 minutes later I'd play my awesomely looking characters, in an awesome lore and with an awesome PvP.

Mawgusta

Having had similar experiences with darkness falls, but not claiming IC will be like it.. I believe that you PvE'ers will buy IC within days of it's release after hearing how awesome it is.

Soulshine

Since the QuakeCon video released (see here, minute 55 starts the gear information) I hope some people have managed to calm down over the gearing issue.

It is pretty clear that there are many new sets which will be available to people, 6 from each new dunegeon alone - you don't even have to set foot in IC to get to the dungeons. There are new crafted sets, and new PvP sets.

In other words you have OPTIONS - which is what many of us have been saying all along.

Time to get over this ridiculous en mass hysteria about PvE being placed inside a PvP zone. It was planned from the game's earliest stages of development, and more importantly PROMOTED that it would be this way. If it just isn't something you want to see/do, then don't. But stop the incessant complaining that you will have no way to get gear than being FORCED into PvP. That is just utter nonesese.

Iluvrien

DDuke wrote: »

You can get crafting mats by deconstructing VR15-16 gear (drops in every PvE group dungeon as well).
You can get the Tel Var stone gear by purchasing it with gold or farming TV Stones (PvP mechanic).

http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/199489/itemization-for-the-imperial-city-dlc-base-game-patch

A succinct summary of the available information.

So, let's take a look at the options for getting the crafting mats option. I am primarily interested in this as my character has, and likely always will be, a crafter by trade.

The options for this kind of character are to either do Dungeon runs to get the mats, or buy them.

All well and good if you can arrange Dungeon runs on a regular enough basis to supply you with enough gear to deconstruct in the significant quantities required to provide for your needs. Your needs may be comparatively modest if you are, for example, purely into crafting for yourself or a guildmates to whom you give your wares freely or in exchange for the mats themselves.

Of course the issue with this is if you want to craft either as a solo or small group (2-4) player. As a solo player this route is closed to you unless you can find a new and active guild, find a group of similarly inclined crafters and can sort out how to split the mats or arrange a supply with an active group who don't need the drops. None of these are exactly ideal solutions, not least because the materials vs. time requirement may well be such that you spend more time running the Dungeons trying to collect mats than exploring the uses of them!

So setting aside this already thorny issue, lets look at what I suspect will be the most usual response to the above "So buy them then!"

This is an excellent and very reasonable response... as long as the flow of materials (and thus the drop in their price) is considerable and the new equality (specified by Eric in the QuakeCon presentation) between dropped and crafted items doesn't result in a significant drop in item value. Personally I suspect that neither of these hopes will come to fruition and so the materials will be expensive, but the market will want the items cheap (because drops will now be as good or better). So remind me again how characters who wish to focus of crafting will be able to manage this? Grinding gold to buy the materials to make items than may well sell for less than the materials were worth... sounds like fun.

I haven't seen a crafting update in an MMO that effectively disincentivizes the solo or small group play styles before. These changes look like they will. Good times.

Ted_Wayz

Just started playing and couldn't help but notice the similarities to Warhammer Online, which I played for 5 years. Nothing wrong with that, loved the game and I love the Elder Scrolls series too. So win win.

Now where are the PvP lakes?

Korah_Eaglecry

DDuke wrote: »

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

Hope499 wrote: »

tpanisiakb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm glad PvP has some love, but I just wish it wouldn't interfere with what makes the game exciting to me: PvE.

Its not, its PvP content, so it has absolutely nothing to do with PvE.

Its already been advertised as PvP content.

PvE crybabies, GO AWAY and sush it, the tissues are running low on this thread.

Read my entire post next time before you snip one line from it. I've clearly stated the above.

Hey, I'm not the one you were answering to, but let me skip the speculation & snip one line from your post (don't worry, I read it entirely).

If I wanted a PvP focused game I'd be playing DOTA2 or LoL or Smite, or .... anything but boring Lagrodiil. I mean, who isn't excited about Emp flipping and keep zergs? So much skill.

Many people aren't excited about Emp flipping and keep zergs (me included), and this is the exact reason we're getting a new PvP game mode in form of Imperial City & risk/reward type content.

It is also very possible ZOS is trying to attract people who enjoyed DOTA2, LoL or Smite by providing content they can familiarize with: loot coins/stones from mobs & turn them in before enemy players kill you and take them.
One of the most popular game modes in these franchises.

This PvP focused patch doesn't cut into PvE any more than BGs & PvP gear in WoW did.

Unless you know something we don't, regarding the BiS gear & if you have to PvP for it.

Im pretty sure this was in the works way back in the beginning of the game long before Emp Flipping was a thing.

Jofish

The ONLY thing I find wrong with it is that the PVP'ers get to bring all this fabulous gear into the PVE zones... and farm the hell out of champion points while we are there and watch them annihilate the stuff that we are trying so hard to kill... keep pvp in Pvp, etc...

Avenias

Jofish wrote: »

The ONLY thing I find wrong with it is that the PVP'ers get to bring all this fabulous gear into the PVE zones... and farm the hell out of champion points while we are there and watch them annihilate the stuff that we are trying so hard to kill... keep pvp in Pvp, etc...

Exactly, the game does not differentiate between pvp and pve when it comes to gears. Pvp gears are not meant to out perform pve gears in pve.........

Shogunami

I don't see how I have a reason to buy this DLC even if I love PvP - it won't fix the issues with PvP