Update 44 is now available for testing on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/categories/pts
Maintenance for the week of September 30:
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – September 30, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PC/Mac: NA and EU megaservers for maintenance – September 30, 4:00AM EDT (8:00 UTC) - 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC)
• Xbox: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
• PlayStation®: NA and EU megaservers for patch maintenance – October 2, 6:00AM EDT (10:00 UTC) - 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC)
What happened to " we will track your exp earned " ????( Gina Bruno answered this 12/28/2014)
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Sylvyr✭✭✭✭✭
Dragon Star Arena and City of Ash
Badge: Wall-of-Text GRANDMASTER
PvP: Patch Vs. Player
ZoSence (n.):
1) What is reasonable or comprehensive using ZoS logic. "That makes ZoSense"
2) Making zero sense. "That makes ZoSense"0 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭The single biggest problem, is that they have delayed removing VR levels till 1.7 or later. It makes no sense to have both systems at the same time. It cant be about testing it sooner either as some have VR levels and others don't, so its not balanced anyway.
Saying it will be removed later is like saying go and have fun playing, but when you come back im gonna smack you in the face.
I think this whole thing would be less painful if they went the whole hog and removed VR completely when they bring in CP.
This is a terrible idea and would cause even more people to quit.
As it stands when 1.6 hits live and champion system becomes available I'm going to have V14 content to play on my V14 character earning V14 experience toward champion points. Which is why while I far from agree with CP30 it's not going to make me quit. I have the time between 1.6 and the vet removal to earn more CP than a brand new V1 can.
If they removed Vet ranks at the exact same time then it's an even bigger slap in the face. IF they compensated for vet ranks then it might have been a lot better to do it all in one fell swoop BUT with the blanket CP30 decision those of us at V14 HAVE to have that time period to earn more cp than your fresh V1.
The whole reason everyone gets 30cp is so its balanced and they can see how it works, only that's not true when there are still Vet levels as people are at different power levels.
If ZOS goes through with giving everyone 30cp in the name of balance, then they better actually deliver that balance.
Doing it over two patches stops it ever being balanced, so they can never get any metrics of how things work, in a balanced environment. Which means they will have created all this drama for no real reason.
I get that casuals are generally the most vocal. I get that every game has to have casuals to pay the bills.
Sounds like you have a real issue with sharing your game with casuals! Read what you said, you say casuals are more vocal! I can't take anything you say seriously after that.
Having an attitude like yours, does any point you are trying to make such a great deal of harm, that you could be telling people how to get rich quick and they would not pay it any attention.
Casuals are more vocal indeed!5 -
Robocles✭✭✭✭✭
I never said it was "repeatable content" (which would imply "repeatable" by a character). But a given account can repeat the content on alts and still gain CP for the main (and alts). In some ways it is better than if it was "repeatable content", since it would be extra boring on a main as most of that content isn't scaleable. However, you do need to get to lvl 50, which won't give CP (but should give a boost to CP earn rate once you get there).
Well... since we were discussing repeatable content, and you said that we could repeat content on alts, one can assume that's what you meant.
I'm not here to parse your statements.1 -
Francescolg✭✭✭✭(I believe, they never tracked anything)
That's it! Most important statement in the whole thread!
Btw, I did not trust ZoS
I stopped leveling any Alt in November, when I realized that some people behind the curtain are simply doing sth. wrong ....
Who kept leveling his alts and who thought anything would be "tracked", is not so intelligent, know why?
..because you trusted them!2 -
Kraven✭✭✭✭✭The single biggest problem, is that they have delayed removing VR levels till 1.7 or later. It makes no sense to have both systems at the same time. It cant be about testing it sooner either as some have VR levels and others don't, so its not balanced anyway.
Saying it will be removed later is like saying go and have fun playing, but when you come back im gonna smack you in the face.
I think this whole thing would be less painful if they went the whole hog and removed VR completely when they bring in CP.
This is a terrible idea and would cause even more people to quit.
As it stands when 1.6 hits live and champion system becomes available I'm going to have V14 content to play on my V14 character earning V14 experience toward champion points. Which is why while I far from agree with CP30 it's not going to make me quit. I have the time between 1.6 and the vet removal to earn more CP than a brand new V1 can.
If they removed Vet ranks at the exact same time then it's an even bigger slap in the face. IF they compensated for vet ranks then it might have been a lot better to do it all in one fell swoop BUT with the blanket CP30 decision those of us at V14 HAVE to have that time period to earn more cp than your fresh V1.
The whole reason everyone gets 30cp is so its balanced and they can see how it works, only that's not true when there are still Vet levels as people are at different power levels.
If ZOS goes through with giving everyone 30cp in the name of balance, then they better actually deliver that balance.
Doing it over two patches stops it ever being balanced, so they can never get any metrics of how things work, in a balanced environment. Which means they will have created all this drama for no real reason.
I get that casuals are generally the most vocal. I get that every game has to have casuals to pay the bills.
Sounds like you have a real issue with sharing your game with casuals! Read what you said, you say casuals are more vocal! I can't take anything you say seriously after that.
Having an attitude like yours, does any point you are trying to make such a great deal of harm, that you could be telling people how to get rich quick and they would not pay it any attention.
Casuals are more vocal indeed!
I actually have no problem playing with casuals, my wife is one. While you bounce all over the forums appearing more and more like a ZO employee or blind fanboi you should probably keep such unwarranted accusations to yourself.
Take one sentence out of an entire post and spin it to suit your needs, fine. The point I made stands but rather than debate the actual point you think to...what? Be dismissive? If you truly dismissed it then why bother responding to it at all? As far as making another blind assumption of my "attitude" let me define it for you. Concern.
I actually voiced reasons why I'm continuing to play the game despite the enumerable posts of people who are quitting. Feel free to make obviously weak minded attempts at attacking the person making the post instead of the addressing the actual points. Good job.
Take care, buh bye now.V14 - IMPERIAL NIGHTBLADE - DPS/TANK
V13 - BRETON SORCERER - HEALS/DPS
V2 - REDGUARD DRAGONKNIGHT - MELEE DPS
V1 - BRETON TEMPLAR - TANK/DPS
to be continued... Nevermind, no longer "to be continued"10 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭The single biggest problem, is that they have delayed removing VR levels till 1.7 or later. It makes no sense to have both systems at the same time. It cant be about testing it sooner either as some have VR levels and others don't, so its not balanced anyway.
Saying it will be removed later is like saying go and have fun playing, but when you come back im gonna smack you in the face.
I think this whole thing would be less painful if they went the whole hog and removed VR completely when they bring in CP.
This is a terrible idea and would cause even more people to quit.
As it stands when 1.6 hits live and champion system becomes available I'm going to have V14 content to play on my V14 character earning V14 experience toward champion points. Which is why while I far from agree with CP30 it's not going to make me quit. I have the time between 1.6 and the vet removal to earn more CP than a brand new V1 can.
If they removed Vet ranks at the exact same time then it's an even bigger slap in the face. IF they compensated for vet ranks then it might have been a lot better to do it all in one fell swoop BUT with the blanket CP30 decision those of us at V14 HAVE to have that time period to earn more cp than your fresh V1.
The whole reason everyone gets 30cp is so its balanced and they can see how it works, only that's not true when there are still Vet levels as people are at different power levels.
If ZOS goes through with giving everyone 30cp in the name of balance, then they better actually deliver that balance.
Doing it over two patches stops it ever being balanced, so they can never get any metrics of how things work, in a balanced environment. Which means they will have created all this drama for no real reason.
I get that casuals are generally the most vocal. I get that every game has to have casuals to pay the bills.
Sounds like you have a real issue with sharing your game with casuals! Read what you said, you say casuals are more vocal! I can't take anything you say seriously after that.
Having an attitude like yours, does any point you are trying to make such a great deal of harm, that you could be telling people how to get rich quick and they would not pay it any attention.
Casuals are more vocal indeed!
I actually have no problem playing with casuals, my wife is one. While you bounce all over the forums appearing more and more like a ZO employee or blind fanboi you should probably keep such unwarranted accusations to yourself.
And you accuse me of making unwarranted accusations? Do you even read what you type, before you hit post? in trying to be clever, you come across the exact opposite.Edited by Guppet on January 8, 2015 9:35PM5 -
Inklings✭✭✭✭✭You can repeat everything in the game on alts, and get CP for the "vet" content each time. If you want to repeat it or not is really up to you (I'm not too keen on it myself).
Its not ok to be forced to level alts to gain CP at a decent rate. Then counter in the fact the hardcore player base already have most of their 8 available character slots maxed out leaves a nightmare of a new system for us to deal with.
There is no way im going to come back to the game with the current system they have in place for 1.6/1.7 with all the work i have put into my characters.
Edited by Inklings on January 8, 2015 9:46PM3 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭You can repeat everything in the game on alts, and get CP for the "vet" content each time. If you want to repeat it or not is really up to you (I'm not too keen on it myself).
Its not ok to be forced to level alts to gain CP at a decent rate. Then counter in the fact the hardcore player base already have most of their 8 available character slots maxed out leaves a nightmare of a new system for us to deal with.
There is no way im going to come back to the game with the current system they have in place for 1.6/1.7 with all the work i have put into my characters.
Wonder what the total played is on that account. Someone ask him, he has me on ignore lol.5 -
Kraven✭✭✭✭✭The single biggest problem, is that they have delayed removing VR levels till 1.7 or later. It makes no sense to have both systems at the same time. It cant be about testing it sooner either as some have VR levels and others don't, so its not balanced anyway.
Saying it will be removed later is like saying go and have fun playing, but when you come back im gonna smack you in the face.
I think this whole thing would be less painful if they went the whole hog and removed VR completely when they bring in CP.
This is a terrible idea and would cause even more people to quit.
As it stands when 1.6 hits live and champion system becomes available I'm going to have V14 content to play on my V14 character earning V14 experience toward champion points. Which is why while I far from agree with CP30 it's not going to make me quit. I have the time between 1.6 and the vet removal to earn more CP than a brand new V1 can.
If they removed Vet ranks at the exact same time then it's an even bigger slap in the face. IF they compensated for vet ranks then it might have been a lot better to do it all in one fell swoop BUT with the blanket CP30 decision those of us at V14 HAVE to have that time period to earn more cp than your fresh V1.
The whole reason everyone gets 30cp is so its balanced and they can see how it works, only that's not true when there are still Vet levels as people are at different power levels.
If ZOS goes through with giving everyone 30cp in the name of balance, then they better actually deliver that balance.
Doing it over two patches stops it ever being balanced, so they can never get any metrics of how things work, in a balanced environment. Which means they will have created all this drama for no real reason.
I get that casuals are generally the most vocal. I get that every game has to have casuals to pay the bills.
Sounds like you have a real issue with sharing your game with casuals! Read what you said, you say casuals are more vocal! I can't take anything you say seriously after that.
Having an attitude like yours, does any point you are trying to make such a great deal of harm, that you could be telling people how to get rich quick and they would not pay it any attention.
Casuals are more vocal indeed!
I actually have no problem playing with casuals, my wife is one. While you bounce all over the forums appearing more and more like a ZO employee or blind fanboi you should probably keep such unwarranted accusations to yourself.
And you accuse me of making unwarranted accusations? Do you even read what you type, before you hit post? in trying to be clever, you come across the exact opposite.
Really? That's it? So sad.
And now...back to the point.You can repeat everything in the game on alts, and get CP for the "vet" content each time. If you want to repeat it or not is really up to you (I'm not too keen on it myself).
Its not ok to be forced to level alts to gain CP at a decent rate. Then counter in the fact the hardcore player base already have most of their 8 available character slots maxed out leaves a nightmare of a new system for us to deal with.
There is no way im going to come back to the game with the current system they have in place for 1.6/1.7 with all the work i have put into my characters.
Which is a big concern for a large number of people, from those with 1 V14 to those with 8 of them. I said it earlier but this is a good reason for the gap between 1.6 and when the vet ranks are removed. A V14 can earn (if the xp is done correctly) more CP between the two updates. So hopefully when ranks are actually removed they'll be sitting in a similar position to where they are now.
While they lost a LOT of trust of many of their players I personally will wait and see where I stand when vet is removed. If despite my continue play I'm sitting at only 35 CP and a brand new V1 gets 30 then I may join the exodus. However, if due to my continued play I'm sitting at CP150 and as long as after the removal I can still do the exact same content I am already doing (VDSA and SO specifically) then I'll get over it.
Those that quit prior to the removal of vet stand to be at a disadvantage if they ever do return. Because rather than earning CP while they're V14 they'll be reverted to 50 with the exact same CP30 as a V1. Again I don't agree with CP30 at all and think it is a horribly insulting decision that completely disregards a large portion of their player base.V14 - IMPERIAL NIGHTBLADE - DPS/TANK
V13 - BRETON SORCERER - HEALS/DPS
V2 - REDGUARD DRAGONKNIGHT - MELEE DPS
V1 - BRETON TEMPLAR - TANK/DPS
to be continued... Nevermind, no longer "to be continued"7 -
Inklings✭✭✭✭✭@Kraven
The problem with waiting to see what happens with taking no action to show disapproval is that you are still validating their current 30 cp decision. We need to look to the past and notice that this is a trend from ZoS and we have not been compensated for lost progress in previous situations. To name a few,
* Two months of a pvp campaign (Scurge) not credited after it was shut down.
* Months of Undaunted achievements farmed that didnt get back credited, originally leaving players a month behind on rep of newer/casual players.
* 3 months of subscription money taken from players who were on the fence about playing the game under the false promise that they would be rewarded for continuing to play with converted xp to champion points in the new system.
There is no way anyone would let this type of behavior happen from a company that promised you a service for money that wasnt an MMO/Gaming company. There is absolutely ZERO reason you should be fine with ZoS doing the same. Sitting here on their forums expressing our concerns is not enough. The best ways to make sure these things don't keep happening are to speak with our wallet and take this fight to outside gaming sites that ZoS doenst have censor control over.
9 -
BCBasher✭✭✭@Kraven
* 3 months of subscription money taken from players who were on the fence about playing the game under the false promise that they would be rewarded for continuing to play with converted xp to champion points in the new system.
This is exactly where I'm at, I don't like being lied to. I had most of December off and have logged in maybe a half dozen times since the last eso live not because I don't like the game. I played other games that delivered what they said they would. The CC my account gets billed to (in advance) for their service is gone and I'm in no hurry to update my billing info.5 -
Farorin✭✭✭✭✭I was initially mad at this whole thing, but then I realised, I just don't give a damn. The game is still fun, the champion system still looks cool, and I am excited for much of the new content being worked on, so even if this is a bit inconvenient, lets all try being a little bit less of a ***.8 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭And yet another day goes by without an answer from Zenimax in any of the four active posts concerning this problem. @ZOS_GinaBruno, the longer this answer is stalled the greater will be the community resentment towards ZoS. Right now it seems like the company is hiding behind a paper thin shield of silence because all our concerns are true and you were or still intend to retire the veteran system without compensating your players for the loss of those levels and the experience they represent.
Your silence is the worse answer you can give us for we will then assume the worst. We assume ESO is going free to play because you won't dispel that idea with a simple statement. We assume you are willing to completely ignore months of your most loyal player's time in the game because in your silence, you are confirming our fears.
The release of 1.6 and even the champion system is filled with obvious flaws. In name of balance ZoS says they will give 30 champion points to all accounts containing at least one veteran character. How great of ZoS to consider their new players and the disadvantage they will be facing once they reach vr1 and don't get those extra points!
As for ZoS fear of players accumulating too many points early, well... ZoS created that problem upon making Champion Points be account bound, not character bound. They made the problem worse by allowing players to configure how they spend CPs on each character instead of making the CP distribution Account wide (which would have forced those players with multiple accounts to distribute their points around the styles of each character).
It is also ZoS mistake that lead to the disparity between levels they are using to justify not giving the veteran ranks the promised CPs related to their accumulated Experience. After all, it is ZoS decision to partially release the champion system while keeping the Veteran Ranks still up. Because they weren't able to complete the tests on their system and the changes needed to all the questing in the veteran areas and gear, we are being penalized.
It is getting tiresome at least to me to come and write down concerns to get no answer... Ever... For over a week. I am at loss on what to do as I would prefer not to drop my subscription again, I like this game. I just start to truly despise the company that created the game.Edited by Grao on January 9, 2015 1:13AM6 -
Voodoo✭✭✭✭too the 4 or 5 of you who post in every thread bashing the CP change. Please dont use the term "player base" as a reference for your distain. I assure you there are alot of players who too put it mildly do not share your negative passion for the changes.8 -
too the 4 or 5 of you who post in every thread bashing the CP change. Please dont use the term "player base" as a reference for your distain. I assure you there are alot of players who too put it mildly do not share your negative passion for the changes.
its been said a everytime, this is said, its not the changes... its the method of execution. i loved EQ's AA system, which the CS system mimics. the problem is not compensating players for the REPLACEMENT of the VRs with the champion system. there are a number of ways to have implemented the system and this is the worse way (my opinion is the stupidest way) they could have.Edited by ahstin2001nub18_ESO on January 9, 2015 1:44AMI will work. I will save. I will sacrifice. I will endure. I will fight cheerfully and do my utmost, as if the whole issue of the struggle depended on me alone.
Martin A. Treptow
1894-19183 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭too the 4 or 5 of you who post in every thread bashing the CP change. Please dont use the term "player base" as a reference for your distain. I assure you there are alot of players who too put it mildly do not share your negative passion for the changes.
That can be said about all sides , since there are some who bash the champion system implementation plans , some who defend those plans and some who support parts of those plans while disliking other parts of those plans2 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭well i will say this....your not going to please everyone. i just think that the way this is being "initially" implemented is probably going to turn out badly at first....hopefully if the company sees us here telling them look guys we are unhappy with this they will make the necessary changes and please everyone. if not...then i mean some people will speak with their wallets. As for casual players....they deserve just as much of a say they pay the sub just like i do. I don't think the majority of players would be silly enough to publicly say anything to the contrary....and if someone does then F them. Forums arent a place to spew out your opinions on how much you hate a group of people who just like to play a video game. Moving on....im in the camp of people now who has expressed my initial concerns and the company responded. It wasnt what i wanted to hear, but to me it means they listened, and it will give them a chance to think on that during the testing phase for this update. Maybe they will change their minds, maybe they wont. Lets keep at it on here to improve the game in ways that we think are better. 0
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Ohioastro✭✭✭✭And yet another day goes by without an answer from Zenimax in any of the four active posts concerning this problem. @ZOS_GinaBruno, the longer this answer is stalled the greater will be the community resentment towards ZoS. Right now it seems like the company is hiding behind a paper thin shield of silence because all our concerns are true and you were or still intend to retire the veteran system without compensating your players for the loss of those levels and the experience they represent.
Your silence is the worse answer you can give us for we will then assume the worst. We assume ESO is going free to play because you won't dispel that idea with a simple statement. We assume you are willing to completely ignore months of your most loyal player's time in the game because in your silence, you are confirming our fears.
The release of 1.6 and even the champion system is filled with obvious flaws. In name of balance ZoS says they will give 30 champion points to all accounts containing at least one veteran character. How great of ZoS to consider their new players and the disadvantage they will be facing once they reach vr1 and don't get those extra points!
As for ZoS fear of players accumulating too many points early, well... ZoS created that problem upon making Champion Points be account bound, not character bound. They made the problem worse by allowing players to configure how they spend CPs on each character instead of making the CP distribution Account wide (which would have forced those players with multiple accounts to distribute their points around the styles of each character).
It is also ZoS mistake that lead to the disparity between levels they are using to justify not giving the veteran ranks the promised CPs related to their accumulated Experience. After all, it is ZoS decision to partially release the champion system while keeping the Veteran Ranks still up. Because they weren't able to complete the tests on their system and the changes needed to all the questing in the veteran areas and gear, we are being penalized.
It is getting tiresome at least to me to come and write down concerns to get no answer... Ever... For over a week. I am at loss on what to do as I would prefer not to drop my subscription again, I like this game. I just start to truly despise the company that created the game.
In all honesty, I strongly recommend stepping away from the boards. Whenever something like this gets me too worked up I lose perspective; when I look back I've actually been counterproductive, even if I'm certain that I'm right.
This is a massive overhaul and there are a lot of moving parts. I don't want my characters getting weaker in the transition either. I also don't want them getting an artificial power boost. There are a lot of things to think about. Will VR14s get boosted gear, for instance? Boosted stats? What else changes besides the champion points? More to the point, how well will the system actually work? That's the job of 1.6.
I honestly think that it would be a terrible idea on multiple levels to front-load players with piles of champion points before the system is even tested, even if it disadvantages me in some abstract sense. I want this game to succeed, and I've seen what happens when the playing field gets too far out of whack. It makes for a bad game (unequal contests are not fun); it makes for a dying game (new players won't join when they face a huge wall to get where everyone else is). All of these arguments about fairness seem to omit anything about whether the changes that are being demanded represent *good design* and *fun game play*. They come across as demands for enduring advantage for time invested (I'd rather best someone in PvP who has a chance against me, by contrast.) That's why MMO expansions always trivialize old gear and reset the game power balance. That's why MMOs don't let people bank tons of advance credit...because uneven games are bad games (first) and then dead games (as boredom and lack of new players kill them.)
I also think, on many levels, that the people so angry about this simply aren't listening to anyone who disagrees with them. Any post (regardless of content) that disagrees in any fashion gets slapped with LOLs. This is, frankly, bullying; the tactics of the angry crowd have utterly antagonized me, and I suspect that I'm not alone.7 -
DanielMaxwell✭✭✭And yet another day goes by without an answer from Zenimax in any of the four active posts concerning this problem. @ZOS_GinaBruno, the longer this answer is stalled the greater will be the community resentment towards ZoS. Right now it seems like the company is hiding behind a paper thin shield of silence because all our concerns are true and you were or still intend to retire the veteran system without compensating your players for the loss of those levels and the experience they represent.
Your silence is the worse answer you can give us for we will then assume the worst. We assume ESO is going free to play because you won't dispel that idea with a simple statement. We assume you are willing to completely ignore months of your most loyal player's time in the game because in your silence, you are confirming our fears.
The release of 1.6 and even the champion system is filled with obvious flaws. In name of balance ZoS says they will give 30 champion points to all accounts containing at least one veteran character. How great of ZoS to consider their new players and the disadvantage they will be facing once they reach vr1 and don't get those extra points!
As for ZoS fear of players accumulating too many points early, well... ZoS created that problem upon making Champion Points be account bound, not character bound. They made the problem worse by allowing players to configure how they spend CPs on each character instead of making the CP distribution Account wide (which would have forced those players with multiple accounts to distribute their points around the styles of each character).
It is also ZoS mistake that lead to the disparity between levels they are using to justify not giving the veteran ranks the promised CPs related to their accumulated Experience. After all, it is ZoS decision to partially release the champion system while keeping the Veteran Ranks still up. Because they weren't able to complete the tests on their system and the changes needed to all the questing in the veteran areas and gear, we are being penalized.
It is getting tiresome at least to me to come and write down concerns to get no answer... Ever... For over a week. I am at loss on what to do as I would prefer not to drop my subscription again, I like this game. I just start to truly despise the company that created the game.
In all honesty, I strongly recommend stepping away from the boards. Whenever something like this gets me too worked up I lose perspective; when I look back I've actually been counterproductive, even if I'm certain that I'm right.
This is a massive overhaul and there are a lot of moving parts. I don't want my characters getting weaker in the transition either. I also don't want them getting an artificial power boost. There are a lot of things to think about. Will VR14s get boosted gear, for instance? Boosted stats? What else changes besides the champion points? More to the point, how well will the system actually work? That's the job of 1.6.
I honestly think that it would be a terrible idea on multiple levels to front-load players with piles of champion points before the system is even tested, even if it disadvantages me in some abstract sense. I want this game to succeed, and I've seen what happens when the playing field gets too far out of whack. It makes for a bad game (unequal contests are not fun); it makes for a dying game (new players won't join when they face a huge wall to get where everyone else is). All of these arguments about fairness seem to omit anything about whether the changes that are being demanded represent *good design* and *fun game play*. They come across as demands for enduring advantage for time invested (I'd rather best someone in PvP who has a chance against me, by contrast.) That's why MMO expansions always trivialize old gear and reset the game power balance. That's why MMOs don't let people bank tons of advance credit...because uneven games are bad games (first) and then dead games (as boredom and lack of new players kill them.)
I also think, on many levels, that the people so angry about this simply aren't listening to anyone who disagrees with them. Any post (regardless of content) that disagrees in any fashion gets slapped with LOLs. This is, frankly, bullying; the tactics of the angry crowd have utterly antagonized me, and I suspect that I'm not alone.
your not alone in wanting the game to be balanced and to have a long term healthy game population .
@Grao is probably one of the calmest of those posting , he just really wants ZOS to communicate better and more often with the player base on the forums .
1 -
Joejudas✭✭✭✭✭While we are on the subject of communication....I keep seeing updates for 1.6. Did you guys see they confirmed mounted weapon swapping.0
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Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭While we are on the subject of communication....I keep seeing updates for 1.6. Did you guys see they confirmed mounted weapon swapping.
Yup, though I think that ability will be connected to a Champion Point.
@DanielMaxwell, I try to stay calm and be reasonable, but I am very upset about this situation. I am specially upset because ZoS, after promising they'd hear us out, went completely silent. The silence was acceptable during the holidays, but now... Its been a week.
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DanielMaxwell✭✭✭While we are on the subject of communication....I keep seeing updates for 1.6. Did you guys see they confirmed mounted weapon swapping.
Yup, though I think that ability will be connected to a Champion Point.
@DanielMaxwell, I try to stay calm and be reasonable, but I am very upset about this situation. I am specially upset because ZoS, after promising they'd hear us out, went completely silent. The silence was acceptable during the holidays, but now... Its been a week.
agree about them conecting that ability to a champion point , would be a silly thing to do but I would not put it pass ZOS .
and you are still being relatively calm in your posts , especially when compared to some others posts.0 -
Kraven✭✭✭✭✭@Kraven
The problem with waiting to see what happens with taking no action to show disapproval is that you are still validating their current 30 cp decision. We need to look to the past and notice that this is a trend from ZoS and we have not been compensated for lost progress in previous situations. To name a few,
* Two months of a pvp campaign (Scurge) not credited after it was shut down.
* Months of Undaunted achievements farmed that didnt get back credited, originally leaving players a month behind on rep of newer/casual players.
* 3 months of subscription money taken from players who were on the fence about playing the game under the false promise that they would be rewarded for continuing to play with converted xp to champion points in the new system.
There is no way anyone would let this type of behavior happen from a company that promised you a service for money that wasnt an MMO/Gaming company. There is absolutely ZERO reason you should be fine with ZoS doing the same. Sitting here on their forums expressing our concerns is not enough. The best ways to make sure these things don't keep happening are to speak with our wallet and take this fight to outside gaming sites that ZoS doenst have censor control over.
I don't disagree at all. It's not okay, and several times I've said that such bad business decisions could ruin a good game. The blatant disregard shown for such a large portion of the player base is a real problem for me. Things change, it happens so Maria saying one thing then the company doing another a month later... it was actually to be expected.
Even predicted and stated several times that ZO has a Horrible track record with back crediting progress. Collections, Undaunted, dungeon achievements, public dungeon achievements, hard mode achievements, etc the list is quite long of systems they've dropped the ball on.
Then with so many people having so many legitimate concerns:ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »We are going to be pushing a small incremental patch (1.5.8) to the live megaservers next week, but we're still testing Update 6 internally. We want it to be in good shape before we hand it over to all of you on the PTS. We'll let you know when we have a better idea of when that will be, but in the name of being as transparent as we can, there is a possibility it will not be next week.
And yet no real news addressing anything of substance since before Christmas.
Currently I remain one of those that is on the fence. I truly think they have the potential to go either way, they already dropped the ball. Now they can either pick it up or stomp it into the ground.
I don't blame any of those that have left or are leaving, just sharing my self delusion in the reason I'm still on the fence. Unfortunately it's getting to the point that it wouldn't matter what they said if they did come out and address any of them.
With blatant lies and false information pouring forth for over a year...How can any player trust what they have to say anymore? If it's not outright attempts to blow smoke up the player's ass then what? No one has any real clue what's going on? That's so much better. Either the right hand has no clue what the left is doing OR the left is waving, while the right reaches into your pocket, while the mouth feeds you platitudes and BS covered in smiles as your wallet is picked.
V14 - IMPERIAL NIGHTBLADE - DPS/TANK
V13 - BRETON SORCERER - HEALS/DPS
V2 - REDGUARD DRAGONKNIGHT - MELEE DPS
V1 - BRETON TEMPLAR - TANK/DPS
to be continued... Nevermind, no longer "to be continued"0 -
NadiusMaximus✭✭✭✭✭Awesome thing for ZOS to do now is say " Your Right, the 30 CP was wrong. we decided everyone gets 10 total, per account."
That would be soooo sweeeeettttttttt......2 -
Guppet✭✭✭✭✭
✭While we are on the subject of communication....I keep seeing updates for 1.6. Did you guys see they confirmed mounted weapon swapping.
Yup, though I think that ability will be connected to a Champion Point.
@DanielMaxwell, I try to stay calm and be reasonable, but I am very upset about this situation. I am specially upset because ZoS, after promising they'd hear us out, went completely silent. The silence was acceptable during the holidays, but now... Its been a week.
@Grao, your tone is much appreciated, much easier to be taken seriously when you don't resort to to trying to belittle those that don't agree with your view point.
I think your comment about being silent during the holidays but not now, is spot on. I was happy to defend their position when they were obviously not in a position to respond. Each day that passes now, with no response, my support feels less and less justified.
They have had enough time after the holidays to structure a thorough response. The fact that 1.6 is not even going to be out till the latter part of January, feels like they are leading us on.
If I'm not mistaken, did Jessica's announcement that 1.6 would likely (read definitely) be later, come just after lots of subs auto renewed?0 -
Kraven✭✭✭✭✭too the 4 or 5 of you who post in every thread bashing the CP change. Please dont use the term "player base" as a reference for your distain. I assure you there are alot of players who too put it mildly do not share your negative passion for the changes.
There are quite a few more than 4-5 who disagree with CP30. There are many who already left and more who are or are on the verge of doing so. Of course there are those like yourself who haven't done the vet content who are admittedly more casual (not saying that is a bad thing), some like yourself who are barely into vet ranks on their first character. Of course those like yourself have no issue, you're not losing anything. You're not being ignored and having progressed completely erased.
Are you suggesting that anyone who has a V14 or has an issue with this is not a part of the player base? Are you suggesting that the 4-5 of you who have no issue and blindly support the decision are the only player base that matters? Are you suggesting that players should not speak up about their disdain for an underhanded trick?V14 - IMPERIAL NIGHTBLADE - DPS/TANK
V13 - BRETON SORCERER - HEALS/DPS
V2 - REDGUARD DRAGONKNIGHT - MELEE DPS
V1 - BRETON TEMPLAR - TANK/DPS
to be continued... Nevermind, no longer "to be continued"3 -
Winnower✭✭✭✭I disagree vehemently with the current "30 CP and a mule" plans, but I've stated my position strongly previously. There are lots (LOTS) of people who also disagree, even if they don't post so in any threads on the forums. Thank goodness there are some regular forum posters continuing the discussion.
There are a number of people in the two real (read: not trade) guilds I'm in who have not logged in since December 19th/20th. I waited until after the holidays were over to start inquiring into the lack of presence - i'm talking about 30-40 folks here (I've been able to hear responses on about half), and over 90% of them so far (don't have responses on all of them) do not have an in-game presence because of this situation.
Most of these people have already unsubbed - their future presence may depend on what happens with the game but the likelihood of their returning will probably diminish over time. It scares me that many of the ones unsubbed actually had game time left that they aren't using.
Unfortunately most of these people are ones with at least one VR14 toon - who had endgame gear and who helped the guilds do progression in trials, organized daily pledges, led PvP, helped newer players with builds and other things that are really quite important in the day-to-day life of a healthy guild.
So if you think this hasn't already had a significant effect on those of us who plan to remain, think again.VR14 Templar, VR14 DK, VR8 DK, VR7 NB, VR1 Sorcerer;
All 3 Alliances;
2 Pre-order Imperial Accounts, yes that means 16 characters on NA alone4 -
Darlgon✭✭✭✭✭
✭
Are you suggesting that anyone who has a V14 or has an issue with this is not a part of the player base? Are you suggesting that the 4-5 of you who have no issue and blindly support the decision are the only player base that matters? Are you suggesting that players should not speak up about their disdain for an underhanded trick?
Are you suggesting that the people who have VR14s are the sole representatives of the playerbase? In that case, you dont speak for me (and my 55 days/21 hours of playtime).
There has to be a middle ground, and ultimately, all these "the sky is falling because ZoS is giving out 30 CP" threads are based on a LOT of player speculation and interpretation of a FEW words from ZoS. How about letting this die until we get the Dev Diaries and our hands on the PTS before running out the pitchforks and tar?Power level to CP160 in a week:
Where is the end game? You just played it.
Why don't I have 300+ skill points? Because you skipped content along the way.
Where is new content? Sigh.4
