No End Game = No MMO

Stratti

This is rule 1 . How have Z missed this. I am bitterly disappointed with there being no end game here .

Before any vitriol there are a few key components of end game that will keep someone playing for a year or two in the same level.

1. Gear progression
2. Tiered progression with casual at the bottom and hardcore up the top with rewards that represent where you are on the ladder
3. Solo progression to improve your toon on a grind, daily quest or anything that will motivate you. Not all gaming time will there be a group so this keeps you occupied.
4. Interface for finding groups - whether it is a global channel or an interface but it needs to work
5. Content that is challenging but allows for easier progression in the beginning so as not to burn groups completely - so they can at least have a kill while working on tougher bosses

None of that is here in any real way that will compel people to play. Hell I love the game in its design, graphics etc but it's not enough . 5 days to go and I'm not sure whether I will renew . I need to see some thing that tells me they recognise an issue.

Drazhar14

Gear progression? The would be a very boring end game... constantly grinding for and upgrading your gear isn't fun for me.

Isn't doing trials for new best times and PvP end game? But yes there could be more variety added for sure. More activities such as horse racing, mounted combat, gambling, arena PvP, and anything that adds to the actual game mechanics also adds more replay value to the game. The upcoming justice system is an example of this.

The most enjoyable part of mmo's for me has always been the leveling experience though. Making alts is end game content too in my opinion, especially when quests let you make multiple choices. ESO could use more choice options with greater impact to the game world though. As an Elder Scrolls fan, I look forward to new land to explore in the future as end game content.

Stratti

See while that is great for you your describing a single player game connected online . That what the questing and alts etc do and that is great but it won't hold the MMO fans particular the ex WoW who came here for a change.

Trials are not end game to me . They were linear stack and shoot encounters and racing is only good for the very elite however the elite have always cared about real progression.

PvP is not end game it's just another game within a game.

End game is max level content that has progression built into it to ensure that people are engage for a year or two.

As for 'upcoming' where is the upcoming vet dungeon . Upcoming wont keep me subbed sorry

Elsonso

Wow.

Blackhorne

End game is max level content that has progression built into it to ensure that people are engage for a year or two.
Why do you need to be engaged for a year or two when new content is released every 4-6 weeks?

See, the reason there's no end game in this game is that the game doesn't end -- not even for the developers.

If you're ex-WoW who came here for a change, then why are you suggesting that this game change to be more like WoW?

JoffyToffy69

If you like WoW go play it.
ESO is a different game which makes it unique.

I played WoW and gear grinding is the worst. I hated it! As soon as you finally get something good, it turns out to be rubbish, so you then need to repeat everything just to get gear that is slightly better. Then surprise surprise, that newly gained gear is useless compared to the next set of gear. rinse and repeat.

That's why I love ESO. It is different from WoW, and not a clone like alot of other "mmos"

DDuke

100% Agree with the op.

While doing PvP & PvE can keep you entertained for a while, that is quickly over when you're doing the same content for 9743th time.

Currently, there are no goals to work towards after clearing the content once, and even clearing the content will leave a foul taste in your mouth when the rewards are worse than anything you can craft in 5 minutes.

I did the arena normal mode once, and I will never do it again. The rewards are simply not worth it. With the rewards as they are currently, I'm not even looking forward to completing the Veteran version, even though I will probably do it as I'm a completionist (even doing the fishing achievements at the moment, and they are far from fun...).


That said, gear progression was mentioned at Quakecon in form of seasonal gear. I hope this'll be implemented correctly, so that no aspect of the game is left out of the spectrum (talking about PvP & Crafting), while maintaining a good steady progression.

Thatusernameistaken

Drazhar14 wrote: »

Gear progression? The would be a very boring end game... constantly grinding for and upgrading your gear isn't fun for me.

So you raid for warm and fuzzy feelings? No thanks, I prefer progression in an RPG. As should you...

Drazhar14

Thatusernameistaken wrote: »

Drazhar14 wrote: »

Gear progression? The would be a very boring end game... constantly grinding for and upgrading your gear isn't fun for me.

So you raid for warm and fuzzy feelings? No thanks, I prefer progression in an RPG. As should you...

I play games because they are fun, you know, for entertainment. I really don't care about getting super amazing gear, if it happens along the way then great, but what is the point of getting gear if there is nothing to do with it?

Stratti

I dont disagree with Drazhar but DDuke hit the nail on the head.

For me, and I assume many others, to love the asthetic of the game and many features but to be largely bored only 6 months in and to be provided with an Arena that even at Vet Level is not really going to progress my toon plus 1 trial with only a few bosses that already has been met with disdain by other trialers means that we largely are logging in - grabbing mats from hirelings checking Guild for a group and if that isnt there then logging out or mindlessly PVPing

Some may persist with this however many players will not and they will move on to the many other games out there that will hold our attention better.

Its like drinking bad coffee from the same cafe just on principle that you support that cafe when the cafe next door has amazing coffee at the same price

I for one enjoy good coffee and would move

Soloeus

There is an endgame.

You might not like it, but its there. Vet Levels/Craglorn/Forced Group content.

That is the endgame.

Stratti

Sad..... Soloeus sad...

End game isnt the end of the game.

It is the game that begins when you finish levelling.

Vet levels is levellling - Craglorn is simply quests for gold reward and Trials and Arena are meh.

In other words when you log on what are you able to do to progress your character?

This game is lacking and other MMO have failed and this is failing for the same reason - There is limited meaningful things to do.

Sure the rose smellers out there couldnt care but they are really playing this as a single player game amongst others. Me 1 week into update have already maxed my toon out - there is nothing to do other than the odd group - some repetitive pvp or an alt

That is no way to play

Tankqull

Stratti wrote: »

...

That is no way to play

WoW - gear grind clone #156549864687973146547684351 is neither

Ragefist

That sounds very much like typical WoWkid missing his WoW

"I want better gear cuz I liek large group PvE" is particularly annoying

Stratti

Why would you wow bash they have kept 7+ million subs going for nearly a decade

Dont make this about a Wow v ESO . If you truly feel that they have nailed the endgame that is your right. If you see yourself doing what your doing now for the next 6 months then cool.

But if your concerned that players around you are dropping off, activity is dropping off and nothing is being fixed when it comes to core concerns than any WoW reference is taking away from that

Stratti

Ragefist wrote: »

That sounds very much like typical WoWkid missing his WoW

"I want better gear cuz I liek large group PvE" is particularly annoying

How rude?

FYI My gear is optimised as a tank fully 5 Footman 5 Whitestrake 2 Unassailable.

All softcapped in the right places and ready to go . The point is there isnt enough content now?

Or do you think the content is fine Ragefist or are you just flaming?

Drazhar14

Well I do agree with you that we need more content for max level players. Though our ideas may differ, our concerns are similar.

On another note, I don't understand how players burn through new content in a matter of a few days. Is it that some people play 24/7, or is it that the content ZOS is putting out has no substance? I'm at the point where I'm just starting lower Craglorn, after finally completing all the veteran zones. And I've been playing since launch.

Nox_Aeterna

You can want that endgame , nobody hear has the right to take that desire from you.

But like many already said here.

We dont want gear grind to be the end game , that simple.

With that said it remains to be seen how the devs will add the sesonal gear , because it might actually be just that and thus will follow in WoW footsteps with their gear treadmill and all.

Gillysan

What is this end game you speak of?

On a more serious note, everyone in this guild I'm in that rushed to "end game" quit playing 2+ months ago. 200 people gone. A scant few who are not max level like me still log in.

ZOS one minor screw up: the leveling curve was way way way way way way too easy. The rest is really those players rush to beat everyone to max level. Well the pvp bugs didn't help but all those things are starting to be put right.

kevlarto_ESO

Gear Grinds = boring at least for me, been there done that, I like the fact I am not doing it now.

khele23eb17_ESO

Drazhar14 wrote: »

Gear progression? The would be a very boring end game... constantly grinding for and upgrading your gear isn't fun for me.

Isn't doing trials for new best times and PvP end game? But yes there could be more variety added for sure. More activities such as horse racing, mounted combat, gambling, arena PvP, and anything that adds to the actual game mechanics also adds more replay value to the game. The upcoming justice system is an example of this.

The most enjoyable part of mmo's for me has always been the leveling experience though. Making alts is end game content too in my opinion, especially when quests let you make multiple choices. ESO could use more choice options with greater impact to the game world though. As an Elder Scrolls fan, I look forward to new land to explore in the future as end game content.

You already grind for gear with each cap increase. So the game would be as boring for you as it is now, except the gear progression would be somewhat meaningful (as in people with gear would have completed more difficult content than people without).

Trying to faceroll content faster doesnt qualify as endgame for me. Minigames dont quite cut it either. Dont get me wrong, theyre nice to have, but theyre not the meat and potatoes of the game.

I will agree with you that the leveling experience could use more replay value tho.

GnatB

Meh. "endgame" is a pointless treadmill for suckers too dumb to play more games.

Wolfshead

JoffyToffy69 wrote: »

If you like WoW go play it.
ESO is a different game which makes it unique.

I played WoW and gear grinding is the worst. I hated it! As soon as you finally get something good, it turns out to be rubbish, so you then need to repeat everything just to get gear that is slightly better. Then surprise surprise, that newly gained gear is useless compared to the next set of gear. rinse and repeat.

That's why I love ESO. It is different from WoW, and not a clone like alot of other "mmos"

I have to agree with you as veteran off just WoW i found there gear grinding one of most stupid idea of keep people busy for years and funny thing is you grinder for a year before there expansion come.

As soon as new expansion hit all your work and effort go out the window and gear is go to replace with green quest reward gear and you have start all over yeah that is really fun!!!! NOT!!!!!!

Marru

Eso community logic. WoW's gear grinding is bad, eso vr levels grinding and increasing max level twice in 6 month is perfect.

Junkogen

No to the gear grind. I don't get how people finished the game so quickly. That's crazy. Anyway, WoW is a god-awful treadmill of suck. It's the same crap over and over. Gear grinding sucks because it just further alienates casual players putting us at a ever-increasing disadvantage. New gear keeps coming out, but casual players never can catch up. So we're constantly getting owned by those that seem to have nothing else to do but play ESO.

So ESO should keep cranking out new gear to satisfy the game junkies? It's not possible. No matter how hard they work or how fast they churn out gear, they can't keep up with you crack fiends. You always want more. If they release more, you'll just play that much more, burn through it 2 hours after it comes out and be back on here begging for another fix.

Go to rehab, people. You're playing way too much.

Wolfshead

Marru wrote: »

Eso community logic. WoW's gear grinding is bad, eso vr levels grinding and increasing max level twice in 6 month is perfect.

No that is not true but if you have do gear grinding for almost 10 year and each time a new expansion come out in WoW all your work and effort to get the best gear in game get throw out window and replace with green quest reward gear i would say something is very very wrong with that game design.

I'm not say that increasing max lvl twice in 6 month is best answer but do beat hell out do same old boring dalies day in and out day for a year maybe longer.

Beside at least ZoS is get game content out alot faster then Blizzard what have been now almost 1 year with out new game content in WoW just for the "focus" on new expansion so the company that earn most $$ in the mmo industry don't have enough money keep a small team on there payroll that add game content while rest of dev team can work on expansion???

pirate3

I absolutely do not want any of the things the OP lists. Game over for me if that *** goes down here.

Marru

Maybe check how Blizzard was adding new content before and compare to ZOS.

We have big updates where fixes of the same quests since early access, nerfs and new bugs to existing skills, fps drops, crashes or memory leaks are the biggest part of the new content patch. Sure, we got another version of craglorn

I wonder, how many scraps of that land left? Or maybe they will add something really new like... underground Craglorn!, skyhigh Craglorn, Craglorn in Oblivion? Insert name here Craglorn?

Stratti

Wolfshead wrote: »

Marru wrote: »

Eso community logic. WoW's gear grinding is bad, eso vr levels grinding and increasing max level twice in 6 month is perfect.

No that is not true but if you have do gear grinding for almost 10 year and each time a new expansion come out in WoW all your work and effort to get the best gear in game get throw out window and replace with green quest reward gear i would say something is very very wrong with that game design.

I'm not say that increasing max lvl twice in 6 month is best answer but do beat hell out do same old boring dalies day in and out day for a year maybe longer.

Beside at least ZoS is get game content out alot faster then Blizzard what have been now almost 1 year with out new game content in WoW just for the "focus" on new expansion so the company that earn most $$ in the mmo industry don't have enough money keep a small team on there payroll that add game content while rest of dev team can work on expansion???

Its a fair point you make the question is one of the overall end game system . WoW may have lull periods where everything is completed and it isnt worth gearing further. There are daily quests and reputation to work on - items and mounts to collect and real rewards of the vanity type. I may sound like Im spruiking for WoW but I am not . I left the game because it had become a toxic community. Eso has a great community awesome graphics and game engine but the end game is lacking .

In my view what are we meant to do once we max level - try and get a trial going or do an arena??? Arena has its issues although it is fun.

A lot of it is simple design flaws. Some of it is lack of solo things to do at end game. For me I will likely not renew my sub because I have nothing particularly motivating to do outside of group content. In case we are wondering the group finder is shocking - there is no global channel for lfg - most guilds are trading based and even my own PVE guild can never get more than a group or two up since patch. And that isnt all the time.

I am about to log on perhaps for the last time and I am not sure what I can do if my guildmates dont want me to tank an arena or dont want to do it because the Already got the achieve.

Its a shame really.

Stratti

kevlarto_ESO wrote: »

Gear Grinds = boring at least for me, been there done that, I like the fact I am not doing it now.

What are you doing tho?

Wolfshead

@‌Stratti
I'm not say ESO have a perfect end game system and yes i do miss solo content as well at the end in ESO but i don't like idea that you have suggest for that will kill ESO for i left WoW for i could not stand that fact that i need to do samething over and over again before Blizzard send out new expansion and also i was get tried of all whine in WoW community as well.

I hope that ZoS also at one point look at solo content and start add that to the end game i would love to see solo and small group content for 2 or 3 people as well for the need to add that in long run if want people to stay around for longer period of time.

@Marru‌
If I reminder right WoW was not perfect back in 2004 the have same problem as ESO have and the did not have any raid content for 1 st 6 month people was just sit around in IF and Org and did some dungeon or BG back them so yeah no game is perfect it take time to get game right for all mmo have so call "children's disease" at start.