No End Game = No MMO
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Mojomonkeyman✭✭✭✭✭
✭This is rule 1 . How have Z missed this. I am bitterly disappointed with there being no end game here .
Before any vitriol there are a few key components of end game that will keep someone playing for a year or two in the same level.
1. Gear progression
2. Tiered progression with casual at the bottom and hardcore up the top with rewards that represent where you are on the ladder
3. Solo progression to improve your toon on a grind, daily quest or anything that will motivate you. Not all gaming time will there be a group so this keeps you occupied.
4. Interface for finding groups - whether it is a global channel or an interface but it needs to work
5. Content that is challenging but allows for easier progression in the beginning so as not to burn groups completely - so they can at least have a kill while working on tougher bosses
None of that is here in any real way that will compel people to play. Hell I love the game in its design, graphics etc but it's not enough . 5 days to go and I'm not sure whether I will renew . I need to see some thing that tells me they recognise an issue.
Pretty much everything you listed is what I hate about MMOs and why I didnt buy into WoW. Thankfully, the developers are not trying to make a WoW Clone with ESO lore.
Koma Grey, Chocolate Thunder, Little Mojo, Dagoth Mojo & Mojomancy6 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »Yes I have reached VR thanks.
From this statement, I take it you're mid-VR and have not even reached end game yet. Correct me if I'm wrong.Rune_Relic wrote: »So let PVP people get the uber gear of the grinders how exactly ?
Umm... by PvPing perhaps? Just make it require an equal amount of effort/skill as it takes to get PvE gear.Rune_Relic wrote: »So you want to grind in PVP and PVE ?
Yes, I think that's what we're doing already? Don't tell me you've unlocked all the Alliance War skills yet...
Besides, how is doing what you enjoy doing (PvP I suppose, from your previous statements) and being rewarded for it a bad thing? It only adds replayability.Rune_Relic wrote: »Its the grind for gear I don't want thanks.
If I beat you I want it to be down to my combat skills....not having the latest uber gear or uber weapons or expoitable unbalanced build.
You want to fight me...fight me on an even playing field and show me your worth.
Show me how well you have mastered the skills you have.
What you want to do is go to a sword fight with a gun
So again....NO from me!
Sorry to burst your bubble, but people are already winning fights because of exploits & unbalanced builds. How long exactly have you played this game?
When game is already unbalanced (all MMOs that exist), differing gear does not make it anymore balanced or unbalanced. The scales of balance swing both ways: A player using a bad build, but good gear could be able to beat a player using a "good" build but bad gear. A player using an unbalanced build on the other hand would usually beat the player using bad build regardless of gear. In fine, it doesn't matter.
Besides, there are actually people who enjoy bringing asword into a gun fight and winning that fight 3 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Mojomonkeyman wrote: »
Pretty much everything you listed is what I hate about MMOs and why I didnt buy into WoW. Thankfully, the developers are not trying to make a WoW Clone with ESO lore.
Sorry to disappoint, but the developers already promised seasonal gear at Quakecon, a major reason why any of the end game guilds are still sticking around (most of them left already).
What VR Rank are you if you don't mind me asking?
There have already been enough mid-VRs who have never experienced end game in this game, thinking they know what's best for the end game.2 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭game beeing a sandbox entirely like UO is overwhelming the current generation of players as it seems...
It's not by random change that I play two 12+ years old MMOs (Istaria and EvE Online) and I am going to be a backer of Trials of Ascension (survival sandbox MMO with permanent death).
There are still some epic time games around and there are still the gamers with the mettle to play them.
If Blizzard published vanilla WoW servers (updated to 10 years later technology) I'd immediately sub to it as well. I leave the subsequent, moron friendly sequels to today's players.Edited by Vahrokh on September 28, 2014 2:17PMVaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO1 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭
From this statement, I take it you're mid-VR and have not even reached end game yet. Correct me if I'm wrong.
Umm... by PvPing perhaps? Just make it require an equal amount of effort/skill as it takes to get PvE gear.
Yes, I think that's what we're doing already? Don't tell me you've unlocked all the Alliance War skills yet...
Besides, how is doing what you enjoy doing (PvP I suppose, from your previous statements) and being rewarded for it a bad thing? It only adds replayability.
Sorry to burst your bubble, but people are already winning fights because of exploits & unbalanced builds. How long exactly have you played this game?
When game is already unbalanced (all MMOs that exist), differing gear does not make it anymore balanced or unbalanced. The scales of balance swing both ways: A player using a bad build, but good gear could be able to beat a player using a "good" build but bad gear. A player using an unbalanced build on the other hand would usually beat the player using bad build regardless of gear. In fine, it doesn't matter.
Besides, there are actually people who enjoy bringing asword into a gun fight and winning that fight
The fact you think my VR level has any relevance to my personal preference is rather telling. Its the "I played MMO for 20 years" ploy or the "I have played 50 MMOs before" so your opionion counts for jack mentality.
Sorry to burst your bubble....my VR level doesn't matter. I still don't want to grind for gear to give me an I WIN button. No matter what level I am.
I wont really bother with the lack of balance makes it gear grind ok argument. That's just a lame strawman really. We are discussing principles not the current situation that may or may not get better. Two wrongs don't make a right.
As far as I am concerned there should be new fixed content and dynamic content. While we wait for that new fixed content, we can use the dynamic content. That is endgame for me. If one is unavailable...do the other while you wait. NO MMO did, can or ever will sate the appetite of content locusts whose sole objective is to achieve max level.... with the content nothing but a distraction along the way.
You want to race your mates to be top dog...fine. Don't complain when theres nothing left to do.Anything that can be exploited will be exploited6 -
Xsorus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Most of you would not play vanilla WoW, what you have is rose colored glasses on how that game really was. Also copying WoW is absolutely one of the dumbest things a MMO developer can do. There is an absolute sea of WoW clones out there and most of them failed because if you are going to play something like WoW it mine as well be WoW.https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXpX7JMwRXtczc5GTrIYRIw
ESO and GW2 PvP videos7 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭xsorusb14_ESO wrote: »Most of you would not play vanilla WoW, what you have is rose colored glasses on how that game really was. Also copying WoW is absolutely one of the dumbest things a MMO developer can do. There is an absolute sea of WoW clones out there and most of them failed because if you are going to play something like WoW it mine as well be WoW.
I have played feral druid in vanilla WoW. If you know what does it mean, then you know the glasses were absolutely brown colored.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Rune_Relic wrote: »The fact you think my VR level has any relevance to my personal preference is rather telling. Its the "I played MMO for 20 years" ploy or the "I have played 50 MMOs before" so your opionion counts for jack mentality.
Yes, your VR level has all the relevance when it comes to this topic.
You haven't played the end game content, thus you cannot have personal preferences in regards to it, as you do not know how it plays out in practice and how it could be made better, nor how you personally feel about it.
This whole topic is about end game content & replayability (in this game, not other MMOs mind you), not the leveling experience.Rune_Relic wrote: »Sorry to burst your bubble....my VR level doesn't matter. I still don't want to grind for gear to give me an I WIN button. No matter what level I am.
No one is asking for "I WIN buttons", whatever you mean by that.Rune_Relic wrote: »I wont really bother with the lack of balance makes it gear grind ok argument. That's just a lame strawman really. We are discussing principles not the current situation that may or may not get better. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Two negatives make a positive, what did they teach you at maths?
On a more serious note, if it does not take anything away from you, but gives all the people at end game replayability, how is it a bad thing exactly?Rune_Relic wrote: »As far as I am concerned there should be new fixed content and dynamic content. While we wait for that new fixed content, we can use the dynamic content. That is endgame for me. If one is unavailable...do the other while you wait. NO MMO did, can or ever will sate the appetite of content locusts whose sole objective is to achieve max level.... with the content nothing but a distraction along the way.
Dynamic content you say? Sadly, if that dynamic content isn't rewarding, people won't do it over & over again and get bored. It sounds to me GW2 would be a game you'd like and it doesn't have a subscription either (I wonder why...)
Kind of you to call people content locusts whose sole objective is max level. I'm sorry to burst your bubble again (man... all this bubble bursting, it's exhausting), but it took me over a month to reach max level, doing every single quest, dungeon & world boss in game. I did read *all* the dialogue and books even, just like I did in Morrowind, Oblivion & Skyrim
So good job at generalizing again.Rune_Relic wrote: »You want to race your mates to be top dog...fine. Don't complain when theres nothing left to do.
There is plenty to do, but no reasons to do them more than once (I don't know why people don't seem to understand this)
Edited by DDuke on September 28, 2014 4:51PM2 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Kind of you to call people content locusts whose sole objective is max level. I'm sorry to burst your bubble again (man... all this bubble bursting, it's exhausting), but it took me over a month to reach max level, doing every single quest, dungeon & world boss in game. I did read *all* the dialogue and books even, just like I did in Morrowind, Oblivion & Skyrim
To a turtle, even cows look speedy beasts.
Game's 5 months old, in how many games people would not be max level past 5 months past release?
Perhaps "alt-holics" and those who can play but half hour a day.
As both casual player and completionist myself, I found it pretty sad I could do everything up to VR 10ish before they even over-nerfed VR content.
Right today I have fired up my dusty Warhammer Online copy on a private server. It saddened me seeing how a non exploration, PvP, 2008 game that failed enough to be shut down, had more amount of quests and replayable content than a 2014 state of the art new game. A mind numbing amount of diverse classes each with 3 spec trees, each with its own specific resource mechanic. Asymmetrical factions, faction rep mechanics, conquerable capitals and conquerable relics (exactly like ESO's Elder Scrolls in Cyrodil), vastly neater castles sieges and a zillion quests. Enough that you could basically level 3 different alts per faction up to maximum level, without ever doing the same quests once.
Lore everywhere, NPCs changing their opinion about you as you became stronger, awesome, customizable gear looks (graphic appearance, not just color).
Only the most utter morons of human history, EA, could screw up on that. I am still annoyed like hell.
Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO1 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭Nope GW2 sucked for me actually. Couldnt be doing with button spamming all those skill bars and playing whack-a-mole. I leave that for the 3 year olds.
Granted. I consider you an exception....as you have pretty gone out of your way to do everything. So there really is nothing left for you to do.
The dynamic content is lacking at the moment. PVP is in fatal condition. Hopefully when the crime system comes that will star to help a great deal.
Agree there probably is no reason to do them more than once. That's why I argued to have multiskill dungeons. 1-12 players the get progressively harder the more players in the group (that gives you at least 12 versions of every dungeon).Anything that can be exploited will be exploited2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
To a turtle, even cows look speedy beasts.
Game's 5 months old, in how many games people would not be max level past 5 months past release?
Perhaps "alt-holics" and those who can play but half hour a day.
As both casual player and completionist myself, I found it pretty sad I could do everything up to VR 10ish before they even over-nerfed VR content.
Right today I have fired up my dusty Warhammer Online copy on a private server. It saddened me seeing how a non exploration, PvP, 2008 game that failed enough to be shut down, had more amount of quests and replayable content than a 2014 state of the art new game. A mind numbing amount of diverse classes each with 3 spec trees, each with its own specific resource mechanic. Asymmetrical factions, faction rep mechanics, conquerable capitals and conquerable relics (exactly like ESO's Elder Scrolls in Cyrodil), vastly neater castles sieges and a zillion quests. Enough that you could basically level 3 different alts per faction up to maximum level, without ever doing the same quests once.
Lore everywhere, NPCs changing their opinion about you as you became stronger, awesome, customizable gear looks (graphic appearance, not just color).
Only the most utter morons of human history, EA, could screw up on that. I am still annoyed like hell.
RIPEdited by DDuke on September 28, 2014 5:07PM2 -
ThisOnePosts✭✭✭✭✭Leave the gear as it is. I mean sure add more styles, etc... but don't do anything silly like GW2.
I'd like some Raid content tbh (no, I do not like WoW however I do enjoy Raids), as well as more random events and maybe some sort of sandbox-ish area. I'd also like a major overhaul of the group-finder. Sure I group up with friends usually, but if I pop on in the middle of the night and my normal dungeon/trial/arena groups aren't on, I'd like to be able to use Group Finder without so many limitations that is currently has.
ESO keeps me busy when I play it still thanks to alts, PVP, crafting, harvesting, etc... however it wouldn't hurt to have some of the things I mentioned above thrown in there. Edited by ThisOnePosts on September 28, 2014 5:57PM3 -
Helwyr✭✭
There you have it, as I suspected.
Why are you posting on a thread about end game replayability, if you haven't even reached VR10 with your character?
There is no way you could possibly realize the lack of replayability, if you haven't played the content yourself. By the way, the replayability issue affects PvP also, since it gets extremely repetitive after a couple of thousand hours (trust me, I know).
"There you have it" (where's my "rolls eyes" icon?). I can't decide if you're just really slow, or you're deliberately delving deeply into the pit of sophistry to try and get your point across in response to the numerous criticism you've received in this thread.
People that are lower than VR14 are posting here, because what you are calling for in ESO effects EVERYONE!
Listen the difference between players like you and me goes way beyond not being able to "realize the lack of replayability" of PvE content like Trials etc. We know what that content is like in general terms and we don't even want to play it once! And if you've actually spent "a couple of thousand hours" in Cyrodiil already like you claim you need to change your real life, not this game (there's less than 9k hours in a year)
You asked me another question in how I would address your problem and I gave you a serious answer, why haven't you responded to that instead of this VR14 nonsense? Because if you agree that the vertical progression you want would satisfy you still if it was also isolated from the rest of the game most of the opposition you're getting here would melt away. The only real beef people would have then would be in terms of distribution of development time between your content and what other people want worked on. Without that separation of content you've created a zero sum game where everyone else loses when you get what you want.Edited by Helwyr on September 28, 2014 6:50PM6 -
Aenra✭✭✭✭i beg to differ; end game as most have come to define it should be in mmos since many (sadly) expect it. Should be. But an mmo is -not- about "end game".
MMORPGs are about RPing, online, massively..ie with people.
(no, not grouped because "dungeonz", with people because communication, sharing both the universe and your experiences)
my "end game" is covering all the content. It is very enjoyable doing so in ESO. More end game for me would be more story/lore/exploring content. An addition of Morag Tong and Thieves Guild. Housing. Hopefully an expansion where Telvanni can look like Telvanni looked, be as hostile as Telvanni used to be; and so on.
Have had enough carrot chasing with weekly locks the last ten years. And the juvenile hosts of hell that accompany it. Sorry boys, just my opinion Pride, honour and purity7 -
Blade_07✭✭✭✭This is rule 1 . How have Z missed this. I am bitterly disappointed with there being no end game here .
Before any vitriol there are a few key components of end game that will keep someone playing for a year or two in the same level.
1. Gear progression
2. Tiered progression with casual at the bottom and hardcore up the top with rewards that represent where you are on the ladder
3. Solo progression to improve your toon on a grind, daily quest or anything that will motivate you. Not all gaming time will there be a group so this keeps you occupied.
4. Interface for finding groups - whether it is a global channel or an interface but it needs to work
5. Content that is challenging but allows for easier progression in the beginning so as not to burn groups completely - so they can at least have a kill while working on tougher bosses
None of that is here in any real way that will compel people to play. Hell I love the game in its design, graphics etc but it's not enough . 5 days to go and I'm not sure whether I will renew . I need to see some thing that tells me they recognise an issue.
Well, the fact is that they pushed this game out WAY to early! Crazy a$$ bugs and incomplete content like end game stuff. Thats why we seen a mass exodus of players! I seriously wonder what Zenimax was really thinking.
“Man can live about forty days without food, about three days without water, about eight minutes without air, but only for one second without hope.”4 -
Semfim✭✭✭Warning:
Significant sales type techniques that repeat the same argument over and over until you are too tired to respond thus ending the discussion have been detected.
Don't fall for it!2 -
poodlemasterb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
I did the arena normal mode once, and I will never do it again. The rewards are simply not worth it. With the rewards as they are currently, I'm not even looking forward to completing the Veteran version, even though I will probably do it as I'm a completionist (even doing the fishing achievements at the moment, and they are far from fun...).
I do this nonsense for fun. It's why I play ESO.
I run a full suite of crafters and could not care less about what drops. It's just gonna get ground up for mats anyway.4 -
Darrett✭✭✭✭It's interesting, because the addition of gear progression would worsen the problem. Right now the biggest problem is the VR grind and the lack of viable options for character builds. It's almost universal that you see people reach the VR range and then quit. Adding a gear grind after that would make things worse, not better.
The problem was that they tried to make the content of other realms available and tack on additional leveling at the 11th hour. Never should have happened.2 -
poodlemasterb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭It's interesting, because the addition of gear progression would worsen the problem. Right now the biggest problem is the VR grind and the lack of viable options for character builds. It's almost universal that you see people reach the VR range and then quit.
I find this surprising. For me the game opened up at VR and that's where I really started to develop my char. At VR7.5 now and loving it.2 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »
I find this surprising. For me the game opened up at VR and that's where I really started to develop my char. At VR7.5 now and loving it.
I had loads of fun until I entered Craglorn.
For me that's the graveyard where good fun goes to die.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO3 -
poodlemasterb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
I had loads of fun until I entered Craglorn.
For me that's the graveyard where good fun goes to die.
Oh my. I have a blast in Craglorn. Soloed Lilinhir at VR5 all except the boss and along comes a group. Bingo.
I like it where it's tough. The game is easy most everywhere else.
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Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »
Oh my. I have a blast in Craglorn. Soloed Lilinhir at VR5 all except the boss and along comes a group. Bingo.
I like it where it's tough. The game is easy most everywhere else.
Once you'll be proper level you'll see you can do a lot of Craplorn instances in 2 players including the bosses. If you want challenging content - and ONLY because you are still VR 5 - you have to immediately go and do Cryrodil delves. Those were not nerfed.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO1 -
ESO is full of one time content, even if you bother to chase achievements and dungeon completions at all. Overall bad MMO design.Edited by kentgreigrwb17_ESO on September 28, 2014 10:25PM5 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭kentgreigrwb17_ESO wrote: »ESO is full of one time content, even if you bother to chase achievements and dungeon completions at all. Overall bad MMO design.
Therein lies the problem . I feel that even the people opposing eachother are just arguing semantics about what end game is etc. This post is a purely selfish one in that I have completed almost all of what I would like and what is left is very little.
Upper Craglorn was sold to us as a zone. Reality it is its a sliver of extra map with some awesome questlines that do not take a great deal of time to complete.
Again the delves are well made, about the right length - fun boss mechanics - but no real incentive to repeat them.
Arena is the same. 2 run throughs up to stage 9 and its 'groan' to go on - one reason being the lack of reward the other being the lack of replayability
The new trail was bitterly disappointing. First boss , as a tank , is untankable in enrage phase so , to my understanding, you need the precise group makeup to kill it (3 temps , 3 sorcs for negate) . Still Stack and deliver (healing in this instance) . Overall lazy and not up to the standard expected.
While a minority here are saying that they enjoy the game none of them are max level. That isnt to say there opinions are not valid but more so there experiences are not indicative of the majority of players who are at max level and quitting.
The reason I am on this thread in my final days is I sincerely hope in the next 6 months these things are fixed and I will return in a heartbeat but for now there is no point in wasting money and more importantly leisure time on this game as it stands.1 -
poodlemasterb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
Once you'll be proper level you'll see you can do a lot of Craplorn instances in 2 players including the bosses. If you want challenging content - and ONLY because you are still VR 5 - you have to immediately go and do Cryrodil delves. Those were not nerfed.
Thanks. She's almost VR8 now but I'll have a look. About 350 damage for maybe 500,000 XP points and most of a zone is ridiculous. She is now a PvE executioner. It's not really fighting.
My son and I are going to do Craglorn, he is just coming up to VR7 as an NB. We operate well together, the Vampire NB and the Vampire Witch.
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Stratti✭✭✭✭✭poodlemasterb16_ESO wrote: »
Thanks. She's almost VR8 now but I'll have a look. About 350 damage for maybe 500,000 XP points and most of a zone is ridiculous. She is now a PvE executioner. It's not really fighting.
My son and I are going to do Craglorn, he is just coming up to VR7 as an NB. We operate well together, the Vampire NB and the Vampire Witch.
Also the World bosses you can duo - I can generally solo them at V14 duo them if you are both switched on should be fine as well.
Good to hear your enjoying the game with your son.
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poodlemasterb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
Also the World bosses you can duo - I can generally solo them at V14 duo them if you are both switched on should be fine as well.
Good to hear your enjoying the game with your son.
We are having a blast. He is 48 now and I just turned 68. We have both been playing since Doom where we cut our teeth.
This MMO thing is entertaining for sure.2 -
Tabbycat✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ESO definitely does not need to clone WoW. The most surefire way to kill a brand new MMO is to clone WoW. Just ask the WildStar peeps how well that's going for them.Edited by Tabbycat on September 29, 2014 12:29AMFounder and Co-GM of The Psijic Order Guild (NA)
0.016%4 -
t it took me over a month to reach max level, doing every single quest, dungeon & world boss in game. I did read *all* the dialogue and books even
This isn't possible for most people honestly, and I really don't even believe you. It would take 40+ hours of gaming a week to do this in a month and generally people don't spend that kind of time.
I picked up this game later specifically to avoid these types of people, and I was hoping they would be gone by the time I got to cap.
This is all you see in any MMO over the last eight years, and its a big reason why most new MMOs have failed. These beta-testers and their laughable super-guilds pre-order and start aoe-grind-blasting content on day one (as opposed to experiencing the content, and actually playing the game). Then after a few weeks of sleep deprivation, drugs, and energy drinks they immediately start complaining about end game and how bored they are.
MMOs simply aren't for you anymore. The honeymoon effect has set in and you're dissatisfied with this type of game because it no longer has "the magic" it once did. ...not surprisingly you and your "super hardcore" approach to MMO gaming has become the reason for your own dissatisfaction.Khajiit Nightblade
Sometimes I write stuff.7 -
Tintaglia72✭✭✭I played wow for 8.5 out of it's 10 years. From launch day to 18 months ago and I have to say that I know 10 Yrs is a long time for people but seriously, people's memories suck!
Vanilla:
Molten Core (launch)
Onyxia's Lair (launch)
Upper Blackrock Spire (launch?)
Teremus the Devourer (launch?)
Azuregos (patch 1.3)
Lord Kazzak (patch 1.3)
Blackwing Lair (patch 1.6)
Zul'Gurub (patch 1.7)
Dragons of Nightmare (1.8)
Ruins of Ahn'Qiraj (patch 1.9)
Temple of Ahn'Qiraj (patch 1.9)
Naxxramas (patch 1.11)
MC an OL where for the elite of the elite and 40 man raids.. The 2 in patch 1.3 were world bosses so the next proper raids were in patch 1.6 and 1.7. If memory serves me right that was 6-8 months after launch. Again one was a 40 man.
My point? Wow didn't have everything, it crashed a lot, we had a LOT of free time given to us as servers were down more often than up for the first few months.
ESO have decided to go a different way, which I am grateful for. It is only 6 months in and we have had several content patches, lots of fixes - yes yes and a few new ones (none that have affected me luckily) - a whole new zone if you squash upper and lower crag together.
People are never happy, they race to 'end game' missing out on the beauty of the story, MMO's are about the journey as there is NO end.. People rushed to V12 and moaned about the increase to V14 as they have done their gear. That is part of an MMO.
you can't please all of the people all of the time. Personally I hope that hard core raiding never comes in. Too many years doing it and burnt out...
Just my 2c worth. Back to work.4