No End Game = No MMO
Maintenance for the week of April 7:
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store for maintenance – April 09, 2:00PM EDT (18:00 UTC) - 11:00PM EDT (03:00 UTC)
• ESO Store for maintenance – April 10, 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC) - 3:00PM EDT (19:00 UTC)
• [COMPLETE] ESO Store for maintenance – April 09, 2:00PM EDT (18:00 UTC) - 11:00PM EDT (03:00 UTC)
• ESO Store for maintenance – April 10, 12:00PM EDT (16:00 UTC) - 3:00PM EDT (19:00 UTC)
-
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭That's funny... all the low level players commenting about end game. You cannot form an educated opinion over something you have not experienced. Period.
The fact is, the end game is not rewarding enough. You have only to open the PvE forums & read the threads there to understand how bad it is (as you cannot see it yourself, for obvious reasons).gamerlucretiusb14_ESO wrote: »
This isn't possible for most people honestly, and I really don't even believe you. It would take 40+ hours of gaming a week to do this in a month and generally people don't spend that kind of time.
You'd be surprised how many people play over 40 hours a week.gamerlucretiusb14_ESO wrote: »I picked up this game later specifically to avoid these types of people, and I was hoping they would be gone by the time I got to cap.
You picked up a subscription based MMO, hoping to avoid "those types of people" (the ones who take video games & MMOs seriously)? No offense, but I find your lack of judgement quite hilarious.gamerlucretiusb14_ESO wrote: »This is all you see in any MMO over the last eight years, and its a big reason why most new MMOs have failed. These beta-testers and their laughable super-guilds pre-order and start aoe-grind-blasting content on day one (as opposed to experiencing the content, and actually playing the game). Then after a few weeks of sleep deprivation, drugs, and energy drinks they immediately start complaining about end game and how bored they are.
Here we go again with the generalizations.
I could list you reasons why MMOs have failed over the recent years, but that is another (rather large) topic entirely.gamerlucretiusb14_ESO wrote: »MMOs simply aren't for you anymore. The honeymoon effect has set in and you're dissatisfied with this type of game because it no longer has "the magic" it once did. ...not surprisingly you and your "super hardcore" approach to MMO gaming has become the reason for your own dissatisfaction.
Oh, I didn't know only casuals were allowed to play MMOs. Sorry, I'll be on my way then...
On a more serious note, if you want an MMO where you don't find more serious gamers, I'd try something like GW2.4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ESO definitely does not need to clone WoW. The most surefire way to kill a brand new MMO is to clone WoW. Just ask the WildStar peeps how well that's going for them.
Of course, why would you want to "clone" WoW? That game is 10 years old...
Meanwhile, we could get rid of inventory, skill bar & character screen also. I'm sure those are "cloned" from some other game.
Actually, WildStar's problem wasn't in the end game, it was in the lack of content for more casual players. ESO has plenty of content for casual players, an ok amount of content for "hardcore" players, but no reasons for them to do that content. I'm sure it'll dawn on you eventually where the problem lies
Edited by DDuke on September 29, 2014 1:44AM2 -
Grunim✭✭✭✭✭That's funny... all the low level players commenting about end game. You cannot form an educated opinion over something you have not experienced. Period.
My nightblade is VR13, 400k vet xp short of VR14. So am I entitled to have an educated opinion about end game yet? Or must I earn the final 400k vet xp before my opinion becomes valid?
Am a whimsical Generation Jones gamer. Online RPGs hooked me since '94 and no sign of stopping soon...3 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
My nightblade is VR13, 400k vet xp short of VR14. So am I entitled to have an educated opinion about end game yet? Or must I earn the final 400k vet xp before my opinion becomes valid?
Yes. After that, do some end game content (Arena/Serpent Trial) and tell me if it's worth doing over & over again
Or read this thread and see what majority of people think about the loot:
http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/discussion/132503/arena-normal-and-harmode-dropping-only-vr13-gear#latestEdited by DDuke on September 29, 2014 1:58AM4 -
Helwyr✭✭That's funny... all the low level players commenting about end game. You cannot form an educated opinion over something you have not experienced. Period.
LOL really? When you get right down to it, it's the same Themepark "end game" PvE content we've seen over and over again. Only someone that embraces that garbage as much as you would think you need to complete the latest version of the same lame content to be able to comment on it. I'm beginning to wonder if you're real motivation for posting is just to gain forum levels... Once you reach max forum level no one will be able to question your opinion since only you have beaten the 'forum content', everyone else will just be "low level" and couldn't possible know what they're talking about.The fact is, the end game is not rewarding enough. You have only to open the PvE forums & read the threads there to understand how bad it is (as you cannot see it yourself, for obvious reasons).
Yeah I was just on the PvE forum and was treated to an awesome thread demanding a PvE only version of Cyrodiil. Credit where credit is due, I got even more laughs out of that guy's OP than out of your last few in this thread, which is surely an achievement worthy of some 'reward'.
Edited by Helwyr on September 29, 2014 2:06AM1 -
poodlemasterb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭LOL. I am building my Red Witch to be a beastly force in PvP. I am running through it all as I am in no hurry and knew nothing about MMOs when I started. I know quite a bit more now and I'll finish Cadwell's Gold, then continue in Craglorn which I really enjoy so far.
I come from Stalker, the best video game ever made and it's a stone ***. The game generates more rage quits than perhaps any other game ever made. The scuzzy bandits in the first thing you do, will hand you your ass until you at least learn, bullets are dangerous. The mods are so brutal that after becoming a master stalker I was reduced to playing like a frightened little girl just to survive NARODNAYA SOLYANKA. Yup Russians and Ukrainians. The western video game is designed to make you feel like a hero. Stalker is designed to humiliate you.
This game was almost challenging at one time, I've been here since Jan, so i know. It's not now. My VR6 witch burned down a 20K Hagraven the other day. No big deal. Critical Surge as it is makes it very difficult to die. My VR7 Vampire NB son was doing 4 man dungeons near the beginning by attrition. He figured if he killed one thing he was winning. A crazy person. Anyway we are comin' for you in PvP in about 2 - 3 weeks.
End game?
2 -
You'd be surprised how many people play over 40 hours a week.
No I wouldn't, I've done it... and done it well. Fact is it's unhealthy and it makes you take a lot of the game for granted. I was in your shoes complaining about end game in several other MMOs over the past decade. Realization comes when you figure out that there's nothing wrong with the game, its you.Oh, I didn't know only casuals were allowed to play MMOs. Sorry, I'll be on my way then...
...
The fact is, the end game is not rewarding enough.
Point is, if you're going to complain about "muh endgame" you need to accept that people are going to disagree with you.
Fact is, this is an MMO. End game today will be superseded and made worthless by tomorrows content patch. The "rewards" you believe you're working for are an illusory carrot-on-a-stick designed specifically for players with your mentality.
That's why I said MMOs are not for you anymore, you've forgotten how to have fun in them.Khajiit Nightblade
Sometimes I write stuff.5 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭LOL really? When you get right down to it, it's the same Themepark "end game" PvE content we've seen over and over again.
Is it though? You have not played the content yourself, so what makes you think so? I actually found Arena really different & refreshing compared to the "normal" end game content.Only someone that embraces that garbage as much as you would think you need to complete the latest version of the same lame content to be able to comment on it.
If the content is so "garbage" and "lame" in your opinion, why does ZOS keep adding it? Could it be there are other players than you in the game... could it be...
I'm beginning to wonder if you're real motivation for posting is just to gain forum levels... Once you reach max forum level no one will be able to question your opinion since only you have beaten the 'forum content', everyone else will just be "low level" and couldn't possible know what they're talking about.
I like that theory, I really do. Do I get something for beating this "forum content" or what happens next?Yeah I was just on the PvE forum and was treated to an awesome thread demanding a PvE only version of Cyrodiil. Credit where credit is due, I got even more laughs out of that guy's OP than out your last few in this thread, which is surely an achievement worthy of some 'reward'.
Yeah, I laughed at that thread also. I'm not some PvE-only elitist guy in case you were wondering, I care about PvP just as much as the next guy and actually spend dozens of hours recording/editing PvP videos (when Cyrodiil is actually working...).
Read the ones about actual PvE content next.Edited by DDuke on September 29, 2014 2:19AM2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭gamerlucretiusb14_ESO wrote: »
No I wouldn't, I've done it... and done it well. Fact is it's unhealthy and it makes you take a lot of the game for granted. I was in your shoes complaining about end game in several other MMOs over the past decade. Realization comes when you figure out that there's nothing wrong with the game, its you.
So it hasn't crossed your mind that people might play a game a lot, because they enjoy it? Next you're telling it's the players' "fault" they enjoy something enough to spend many hours at it.
It might come as a surprise to you, but for example professional soccer players, they tend to enjoy soccer and spend a lot of time playing it (shocking, I know).
Is there something "wrong" with them? No.
As for gaming being "unhealthy", are you aware of the fact that playing video games actually increase your cognitive functions, reflexes, strategic thinking etc. and helps with stress & anxiety? No, you probably didn't know that. It doesn't prevent you from working out 3-4 times a week either (yeah, they aren't mutually exclusive concepts despite the stereotypes).gamerlucretiusb14_ESO wrote: »gamerlucretiusb14_ESO wrote: »Point is, if you're going to complain about "muh endgame" you need to accept that people are going to disagree with you.
Fact is, this is an MMO. End game today will be superseded and made worthless by tomorrows content patch. The "rewards" you believe you're working for are an illusory carrot-on-a-stick designed specifically for players with your mentality.
Yes, and having read your comments I have to say, I much prefer "our" mentality.gamerlucretiusb14_ESO wrote: »That's why I said MMOs are not for you anymore, you've forgotten how to have fun in them.
Oh sorry, am I too active in the MMO for being allowed to play it? Stop being ridiculous...
I'd like you to try and have fun doing the same content over & over again without getting anything out of it. Though if I'm not mistaken, you'd probably just quit the game at that point & go get your next leveling experience. Talk about wanting the best for the game Edited by DDuke on September 29, 2014 2:49AM3 -
It might come as a surprise to you, but for example professional soccer players, they tend to enjoy soccer and spend a lot of time playing it (shocking, I know). Is there something "wrong" with them? No.
The reason this analogy doesn't work is because soccer players, no matter how hard they play or how much they play, cannot rush to the end of the season and then cry that there are more more teams to play.
This makes it quite different from what you're doing.Oh sorry, am I too active in the MMO for being allowed to play it? Stop being ridiculous...
Only one of us is on an internet forum complaining about not having fun anymore. How ridiculous am I being really? It's tough to come to grips with, I know... because it took me the better part of a decade to figure it out. I'm not faulting you for it, i'm giving you the answer you're going to come to eventually anyway.
It's a gift.you'd probably just
>implying
I'll be playing this game for a while, I quite like it... and there is plenty to do. Questing, end game PvE, PvP... literally tons.Edited by gamerlucretiusb14_ESO on September 29, 2014 2:58AMKhajiit Nightblade
Sometimes I write stuff.4 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭gamerlucretiusb14_ESO wrote: »
The reason this analogy doesn't work is because soccer players, no matter how hard they play or how much they play, cannot rush to the end of the season and then cry that there are more more teams to play.
This makes it quite different from what you're doing.
Way to take things out of context. I was replying to your accusations of playing video games more than a casual player being like some horrible crime, and you come up with this. Brilliant
gamerlucretiusb14_ESO wrote: »
Only one of us is on an internet forum complaining about not having fun anymore. How ridiculous am I being really? It's tough to come to grips with, I know... because it took me the better part of a decade to figure it out. I'm not faulting you for it, i'm giving you the answer you're going to come to eventually anyway.
It's a gift.
One of us is providing constructive criticism regarding end game, and the other one is replying with as much nonsense without having even experienced the end game. If you still want to think about how you are being ridiculous, go ahead. You'll get it eventually.
What this sounds like to me, is bitterness. You don't have as much time to play as other people, and want them to have as little content as possible so only people like you would remain playing the game.
Illustration: "If I don't get cake, you won't either! *Spits*"
Brilliant plan for a subscription MMO.gamerlucretiusb14_ESO wrote: »
>implying
I'll be playing this game for a while, I quite like it... and there is plenty to do. Questing, end game PvE, PvP... literally tons.
Questing, yes. Yet a good portion of the player base has been done with questing for months (took me & most of my guild mates 2 days to complete Upper Craglorn, which is normal).
End game PvE, who are you going to do it with (once you reach VR14), if only casuals who havent reached end game remain?
PvP. I wont start talking about how repetitive & broken it is, as you probably don't play enough to have it affect you.
...literally tons nothing after that. (Fixed it for you).
I'm not implying by the way, only throwing an educated guess 2 -
constructive criticism
Come now, please.I'm bored because I did everything faster than average players.
That isn't constructive criticism.What this sounds like to me, is bitterness. You don't have as much time to play as other people, and want them to have as little content as possible so only people like you would remain playing the game.
No, I would rather the maximum number of people remain. The more people that play an MMO the better it becomes, it doesn't matter how you play... only that you pay.
If "content" were something you could pump out of the ground they might find a seemly limitless supply of it... but what I see you doing is ignoring the effort put into the game over the first six months... and wanting more, faster.
Impatience is the bane of playing a game hardcore, but don't try to pass it off as constructive.Edited by gamerlucretiusb14_ESO on September 29, 2014 3:38AMKhajiit Nightblade
Sometimes I write stuff.5 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭Couple of things I would like to address.
This thread has had a great amount of posts and interest - which tells me and hopefully Z that this is an issue for the community.
Also want to be clear that I think the game up until end game is amazing - truly sets the bar high for an MMO journey to the max level.
Sure they have been amazing in the development of Vet Dungeons - truly masterful . In 10 years of WoW I have never had the same fun tanking small group content as this game
The PvP is broken - we know that - I don't think anyone would suggest otherwise and have a reasonable argument to show for it
Craglorn is broken as well - my opinion - but clearly when the zone is dead and people are not getting into it then the sandbox is not doing its job
Finally Trials. As an ex heroic raid tank of many years I could be half drunk or asleep and tank these. The mechanics are trivialised (in AA or HC) or well overtuned but simple in Serpents (first boss at least). If the end raids are not compelling then what is next
Arena is beautifully made with some real mistakes. First mistake is not allowing for the saving of progress and returning another day. Second mistake is the rewards are a joke.
Trials could have been great with more mechanics, more requirement for class versatility and less Stack here and burn. The encounter designs here fly in the face of everything in Vet Dungeons
Ultimately I 'love' the game but really feel like I have completed it in terms of what is compelling to do. It is a shame - I will keep an eye on it and won't be returning to WoW. The reason for WoW not being my choice is less to do with the game and more to do with the community.1 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭FlinkeKlinge wrote: »
As stated by the devs numerous times before and after release:
Immersion, Exploration, RP
Don't bother. Look at the posts in this tread from those who answers anything with their own view, which seams to be the reason for posting. Talking about ESO seams to annoy some users, if the subject does not fit, or agree with their view.
This tread was interesting, since it could start a very important discussion about what ESO is, where it's heading and the powerful business model ESO is built on. Zenimax counted on players to change the game to be fun, instead of designing a "grinding" model.
We, players wants jerkins! Zenimax delivers. Because it works great with ESO.
"You choose your path"
You can even choose to grind. But why would anyone want to miss most of the game and by their own words, complain about "grind"?
I had to look it up, since I do not understand it.To solve the grinding issue, E McNeill proposes that "the most effective path to victory should also be the most fun". For example, challenging tasks should give better rewards than easy tasks.
Undaunted achievements is a good example of this. No one can buy, power level or let an addon do this for you. Challenging and gives one hell of a good reward.
Source:Another alternative to grinding is to remove designer-defined objectives, leaving players free to do whatever they want. This creates a new problem where many players might be confused about what they are supposed to do, or they might lack the motivation to do much of anything in the virtual world.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grinding_(video_gaming)
Could free choice be the reason why some players who likes the game, still do not know what they miss or think the game ends at "max level Vet 14"?
Interview with Matt Firor, 2 years ago
Something have happen to MMO players the past 5-6 years.Matt Firor:
"We just want to make a good game and let people who want to play it, play it. It's got to be long-term compelling, it has to be fun and we want to make the player's development more about their choices"
IT social progress. "Convenience" is so important, that a new generation of players are willing to pay a lot of time, money and effort for it.
Addons in games is expected just like apps on smartphones.
"What, noob,lololo!!! how would you know how much damage you do without recount?"
No comment.....
ESO is designed to expand on regular bases, without making any content "outdated" and never end. Tamriel evolves with content, where the player decides what they want to do and how to play.
Some players seam to have misunderstood choices with rights.
Even new players, who look at the in-game guide, can read about choices.
If you want to enter Cyrodiil, you will be open for attack since its a PvP area.
Claiming it is your "right" to explore this zone without "PvP on".......
Look back at all the MMO titles from 2000-2010.
Complaints about bugs, features, UI, combat, or what not.
But very few Eve players would yell on a forum; "PVP?!?!! Remove or I quit!"
At ESO Launch - Half a MILL? BUYS the game, expecting:- Skyrim online - Why are there other people here? Someone stole my chest! I saw it first! Where is the difficulty setting?
- WoW V2 - No AH?!!! WHAT, I have to DO something? FREE RESPEC!
- Players who wants to "try" the game, openly stating they bought it and would return it after 30 days to get their money back. Not a small group.......
- Normal MMO players who loved a new Elder Scroll "look" MMO, but expected it to be a copy of their last, and only MMO they played. WoW was one....but not the only one.
Most claimed that ESO would fail in a month or go F2P and moved to WS....then I am not sure where they went after WS.
This tread could be really good to exchange experiences and find out a "new end game". Any possibility to discuss ESO, instead of expectations and what ESO "should be"?Edited by Cogo on September 29, 2014 4:55AMOghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"2 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭Honestly Cogo - I value your opposition but you are missing a lot of the point. It isnt a matter of a point of view but a commentary on the style of game.
Also it is very hard to see how you are qualified to comment when you havent max levelled any of your characters. Its kind of like me telling you about what space travel is like - I have never experienced it so it is all in my imagination.
Reality check is needed : This game has become grind centric. No other MMO I have heard of allows for a single boss to grind you max level from 12-14 in 3-4 hours.
So they have installed a grind game - thats all those people saying LFG Burials, Shadow, Tower etc etc . This is the bulk of the playing group
Those who wish to play the game 'properly' are stuck while their guildmates are maxed.
Second reality check : The most difficult parts of the game currently are Arena. The last straw was hearing that Arena dropped mainly v13 with the occasional V14. That literally was the final straw for me to unsub. So the most difficult parts do not give the best reward. In fact any level10 Blacksmith can craft my gear
I was someone who came from WoW after 10 years. Sick of the community that had been a product of game design changes in Cataclysm to cater to entitled younger players. It ruined the game
I love this game except it is now complete for me. Complete in that my toon is already very powerful - no gear will improve it markedly . The amount of people in the group finder is zero. My guild is still active but hey can't be relying on guildies all the time. The reward for effort in this game = 0
In my view this game is for achievement hunters , crafters , immersionists and completionists. Not much different to Skyrim to be honest except Skyrim was a vastly superior game with a vastly superior storyline. Only thing that stopped me playing it still is my character became so powerful it could kill everything easily and there was no more to complete
Same thing here just didnt take as long.
Now they may come up with content in two months - I will watch for it but it would have to be very good and last longer than 2 days
2 -
fromtesonlineb16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭
You meanGear progression? The would be a very boring end game.
1) Level cap is 50
2) Level cap gets raised to VR10
3) Level cap gets raised to VR12
4) Level cap gets raised to VR14
all inside 6 months of release, each step requires yet another gear grind.
I presume you're very bored with ESO then.
Edited by fromtesonlineb16_ESO on September 29, 2014 6:16AM1 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭fromtesonlineb16_ESO wrote: »You mean
1) Level cap is 50
2) Level cap gets raised to VR10
3) Level cap gets raised to VR12
4) Level cap gets raised to VR14
all inside 6 months of release, each step requires yet another gear grind.
I presume you're very bored with ESO then.
+1
Not to mention all that wasted legendary tempers sheesh. Instead of releasing really loads of content they raised the level cap - a few quests and blah.
I would not be surprised if over the next month their subs dropped dramatically2 -
Vahrokh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Tintaglia72 wrote: »I played wow for 8.5 out of it's 10 years. From launch day to 18 months ago and I have to say that I know 10 Yrs is a long time for people but seriously, people's memories suck!
Vanilla:
Molten Core (launch)
Onyxia's Lair (launch)
Onyxia was not there at launch iirc.Vaerah, Dark Elf Magicka Sorceress
Trials addict, soloer extraordinaire!
Here are my Elder Scrolls Online videos
Here is the Sorcerer Helper addon I have updated to work on current ESO1 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭
It was said in another post that it wasnt . Onyxia was one epic encounter. Just to get attuned you had to complete the quest in BRD - Save the Marshall and accompany him back to Stormwind. You then walked with him through the streets where every guard saluted him for his bravery. He then marches up to the keep and outs Katerine Prestor for being a dragon in disguise - She kills him then flys off in Dragon Form leaving guards behind. Bolvar demolishes the guards with those present helping in an epic battle. You then get attuned get into a 40 man and take her out in an epic battle that lasted 10 minutes
To this day if you did it in Vanilla you have a legendary feat
That encounter was tied in with Blackwing Lair - her brother which was Epic. The first boss alone required co-ordination of 8 groups or more of 4 dps with Mind crontrolling the boss to smash eggs while killing those adds (so many adds) that try to kill the mind controlled boss.
Molten Core - crazy epic
Zul Gurub 20 man - heaps of fun
Not to mention the SERVER wide project to open the gates of AQ
These were epic end game encounters
We have in ESO - Stack and burn (negate negate negate) : sTack and burn Split for adds . Spread and burn pickup axes . Yawn!
Also when (if) you got a drop in raids in WoW it made your toon uber so it was worth chasing the rabbit down the hole
After Tanking Trials for months I think I got 1 mace that was only used because it looked good - my crafted gear was all I needed (except for some accessories)
I'm not asking for a WoW clone - for me it had its day - but surely Z can build on previous success within the model
Is it asking too much?
Edited by Stratti on September 29, 2014 7:30AM4 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭Couple of things I would like to address.
This thread has had a great amount of posts and interest - which tells me and hopefully Z that this is an issue for the community.
Which issue? Yours, or all the others in this thread who do not agree with you?
If a thread gets a great amount of posts and interest, means that the one who started it, is right, then damn, I must be Master ESO!
That most my posts from launch was 99% against me doesn't matter, right?
As long as I get attention, I am important?
Only got to 50? Cool! You have twice as must more to explore and even more coming in something called Vet ranks! Which will be turned into Champion points, which means you are level 50, but get more champion points to spend, when Phase 3 goes live, by each Vet rank you have exp in.Also want to be clear that I think the game up until end game is amazing - truly sets the bar high for an MMO journey to the max level.
Instanced dungeons like Grotto, both at lvl 15ish and Vet rank, is pretty similar to both Molten Core raids and Scholomance/Sunken Temple dungeons the first year. Before nerfs, removal of MC key requirements, zone shrinking, making mobs easy and buffing players, game information available and addons/guides who told you what to do , where to stand, when to move, and what button to press.Sure they have been amazing in the development of Vet Dungeons - truly masterful . In 10 years of WoW I have never had the same fun tanking small group content as this game
The diversity and difference in tactics on each Molten core encounter, except for Ragnaros which was just about gear, is very similar to ESO instanced dungeons.
With exception to increase player buffing vs environment and addons telling you what to do:
Karazhan unique Castle raid,
Tempest keep and Sunwell requirement of real skill and teamwork,
the coordination of Black temple and
the unique mechanics of The Battle for Mount Hyjal.
All which only a few % of raiders even managed to complete before any nerf or removal of Key requirements to enter.
All above have similarities of ESO dungeons.........with
The huge difference is the Type and style of ESO, where tactics depends on the group. Tanking is not the same concept and have nothing to do with "best" gear.
Taunt worked completely different in wow, even when treat was a factor. Omen took good care of that though.
ESO dungeons are different in graphics, Mobs AI, who the player is, not what class, the group consists of. Zenimax none nerfing but expanding and increasing content in current dungeons and character builds/development is 2 different planets since you never hit max level in personal skill, which was possible in wow.
I agree, the dungeons in ESO are amazing and unique among MMOs in many ways. If not for its beauty, but the hardcore, huge Shada’s Tear in Graglorn that feels very close to Everquest's Temple of Veeshan, with different wings, but smaller and don't take 12 hours to clear.
Even if ESO Dungeons are 4 man, WoW was 40 and EQ 72, they still required teamwork, skill and no one who played either game under a month was even allowed in the raid. (Who would be that stupid?)
Do you have half the ESO forum on ignore, so you don't see posts? Broken is not the same as could use improvements. Which Zenimax outlined several times. Last time a few days ago. Cyro works very well. Players are there daily and zone control is starting to shift more now when balance kicked in.The PvP is broken - we know that - I don't think anyone would suggest otherwise and have a reasonable argument to show for it
Are you playing in Cyro?
Now you are scaring me. Craglorn is so crowded, we are lucky that phasing kicks in. There isn't 1 damn minute without hearing "Looking for GRIND group, GRIND boss"! Gaaaaah! Horrible when I am trying to fish!Craglorn is broken as well - my opinion - but clearly when the zone is dead and people are not getting into it then the sandbox is not doing its job
Either I am seeing things and should see a doctor, or you might not be logged in?
Craglorn is very beautiful and awesome to explore with my friends.
No worry about bugs and who is on what quest. ESO phasing is the best I've ever seen! I heard the huge dungeon zone we found was an expanded previous dungeon. Cool, with 2 quests inside! Even wiped a few times on a boss. Cool!!!
Good zone to sell tempers for 2k gold each for too........
It is a fresh breeze to go back to normal Vet areas and get rid of that "Grind" zone chatter! The discussions in Riverspire (Vet) zone is much more refreshing. Feels like EQ again when people gather up to help out on bosses and dolmens.
We must be brothers! I was half drunk and had very little idea what I was doing, when both leading and tanking HC wow raids. As long as I could see the double text from Bigwigs and press my push to talk...it wasn't very hard.Finally Trials. As an ex heroic raid tank of many years I could be half drunk or asleep and tank these. The mechanics are trivialised (in AA or HC) or well overtuned but simple in Serpents (first boss at least). If the end raids are not compelling then what is next
Really? What I understand from players who did the trials early, the 2 first was a bit to easy, but with exploits and surprisingly big lack of skill to form a group of 12, it's sort of understandable.
Serpent trial, the raid guilds saying ok, it in the right direction, but still not challenging enough. What end raids? ESO have no "raids", but group encounter content. Both PvE and PvP, where the largest group is 40, but so far max Trail event is 12. 24 man is in the plans, as well as solo "raids" in the new Solo zone.
I know everyone knows, but the "raids" in Imperial city gonna be very interesting when the PvE raiders clash with the PvP teams!
You did read about arena is a new type of dungeon?Arena is beautifully made with some real mistakes. First mistake is not allowing for the saving of progress and returning another day. Second mistake is the rewards are a joke.
Even seen it here....
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2014/08/13/update-4-preview-video
The arena raid players seams happy with. Awesome of Zenimax to prompt say no to any nerf. And even increased difficulty since PTS. Gonna be great to do when all the "grinders", bug tested, ironed out that, like they did Craglorn. My thanks!
Are you sure you are logged into ESO? Raid guilds youtube looks just like ESO youtube, with phased waves. And mechanics that instantly wipes a group.
Looks awesome!
"Saving of progress"? Are you sure you understood the mechanics of The Arena?
The reward is for those who can withstand the brutal Arena.
Doing all the waves, with a boss in the end, when you got 3 broken legs, is the challenge.
Here is how they did it:
http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2014/08/28/creating-eso-dragonstar-arena
You sure you are logged into ESO?Trials could have been great with more mechanics, more requirement for class versatility and less Stack here and burn. The encounter designs here fly in the face of everything in Vet Dungeons
Nice that you keep talking about WoW, you must like it. This is ESO though. Not sure about the connection to WoW?Ultimately I 'love' the game but really feel like I have completed it in terms of what is compelling to do. It is a shame - I will keep an eye on it and won't be returning to WoW. The reason for WoW not being my choice is less to do with the game and more to do with the community.
I like blue flowers.....
The community here is really great and slowly starting to use the forums. Look in this post and un-ignore half of it, and you see them! :-)
You found all the new hidden/changed/added content in level 1-50 zones already? Damn....you must go to every zone weekly?
Since you say compelling, its very hard to guide you what you have missed, since that means so many things.
Have you tried playing a merchant? Very cool to travel the world, buy cheap and sell with a profit, while you explore new places and find that lorebook or skyshard you didnt have!
Oh yeah, if you only hit max level, there are Vet areas to explore! More then 2 times as much content! If you missed them, you will get very happy! That makes me happy!
Edited by Cogo on September 29, 2014 8:00AMOghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"2 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭All the WOW haters are very sad, dissin' on end game thinking just because WOW has it, then everybody that wants some end game is a wow fanboy, forgetting that most good MMORPGs have end game and that it's ridiculous not to have end game content, proving once again, they know nothing of MMORPGS.
That being said, I disagree with the fact there is no end game content, I've been raiding AA and Hel RA lately just to get those chests with VR14 legendary items since I need 3 Aether set pieces for my build, we're getting on Serpent trial (first boss 25%) and will prolly kill it tonight, there is still Arena Hard Mode to complete but it's a breatch without pvp buffs.
The real issue isn't that there isn't content, the issue, now and always, is itemization. The loot from trials sucks. Hist Bark & Death's Wind is better than the heavy armor, medium armor isn't used by anybody in this game that engages in PVE end game content anyways (stamina builds sadly still suck) and the Aether set, while not being a bad set, has also better alternatives for most magicka builds. THe jewelry utterly sucks and the staffs's special effect (bomb over the enemy) are totally bugged (which isn't that much of an issue since nobody will use that snip anyways.
Regarding Arena, it's the same issue, Destruction mastery set sucks, the other three sets aren't that bad(especially the healers one) but the traits of the pieces just suck and they aren't even VR14. I think the footman boots or gloves come with exploration trait? Who would wear that in their right mind?
At last but not least: The final loot from Arena Hard Mode isn't even the legendary items anymore and you can get blue pieces in Normal Mode. You just wasted 250 pots and 6h in HM or 100 and 1h30 in Normal mode just for crap loot? Why would you keep playing this? What is the incentive, once you cleared Arena, to go back there and kill the boss again? There is none what so ever! The worst part is that even if the legendary items dropped in Hard Mode, it still wouldn't be worth running since the items themselves suck big time...
If there's one thing that ZOS needs to work on to make the end game successful, it's the itemization..Edited by TehMagnus on September 29, 2014 8:11AM3 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭
If there's one thing that ZOS needs to work on to make the end game successful, it's the itemization..
Sorry to cut your quite refreshing post.
I agree with your awesomeness! I tried to click 10 times on awesome. Wouldn't let me. Why can't I post like that? Elegant, prompt, to the point and very easy to read.Edited by Cogo on September 29, 2014 8:08AMOghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"0 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭All the WOW haters are very sad, dissin' on end game thinking just because WOW has it, then everybody that wants some end game is a wow fanboy, forgetting that most good MMORPGs have end game and that it's ridiculous not to have end game content, proving once again, they know nothing of MMORPGS.
That being said, I disagree with the fact there is no end game content, I've been raiding AA and Hel RA lately just to get those chests with VR14 legendary items since I need 3 Aether set pieces for my build, we're getting on Serpent trial (first boss 25%) and will prolly kill it tonight, there is still Arena Hard Mode to complete but it's a breatch without pvp buffs.
The real issue isn't that there isn't content, the issue, now and always, is itemization. The loot from trials sucks. Hist Bark & Death's Wind is better than the heavy armor, medium armor isn't used by anybody in this game that engages in PVE end game content anyways (stamina builds sadly still suck) and the Aether set, while not being a bad set, has also better alternatives for most magicka builds. THe jewelry utterly sucks and the staffs's special effect (bomb over the enemy) are totally bugged (which isn't that much of an issue since nobody will use that snip anyways.
Regarding Arena, it's the same issue, Destruction mastery set sucks, the other three sets aren't that bad(especially the healers one) but the traits of the pieces just suck and they aren't even VR14. I think the footman boots or gloves come with exploration trait? Who would wear that in their right mind?
At last but not least: The final loot from Arena Hard Mode isn't even the legendary items anymore and you can get blue pieces in Normal Mode. You just wasted 250 pots and 6h in HM or 100 and 1h30 in Normal mode just for crap loot? Why would you keep playing this? What is the incentive, once you cleared Arena, to go back there and kill the boss again? There is none what so ever! The worst part is that even if the legendary items dropped in Hard Mode, it still wouldn't be worth running since the items themselves suck big time...
If there's one thing that ZOS needs to work on to make the end game successful, it's the itemization..
LOL - your assumption that WoW has anything to do with it. Also you honestly think that end game = encounters? Perhaps not since you talked about itemisation which is another way to say that the reward =/= effort which in turn means that people will not participate which then means that end game dies.
Name one MMO that does not have an end game - in other words you continually quest or grind . The mere thought is laughable. Skyrim was awesome but it didnt have an endgame - complete the quest game was over (apart from side quests)
Ultimately anyone posting here has nothing to do with WoW anymore . WoD comes out in a month with a boost but we are here talking to people about it in the hope it can be fixed.
Content is a big issue : It is very light on substance - Look at the Trials encounters compared to real encounters in other games
But yes you are right about the lack of rewards.
All in all it is very broken at the moment. Be nice to get a word from the Devs so I can consider whether I resub
Pigs may fly though first
3 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭@Cogo
You post above was a good laugh.
It was the equivalent of me saying the sky is blue and you saying no it isnt.
I dont need to read Arena - I have done it
- I dont need to look at the Trials information - I have done them
- Serpents is lazy boss fight - stack and heal
Going back to your earlier posts please do not comment here it is a flame post when you do. You haven't experienced end game in this game (HC in Wow - Bigwigs lol ) . If you havent experienced the end game then you cannot comment on it.
Others have mentioned this yet you still persist. Its like when your feeling sick in the stomach do you go to the mechanic???
Try and level to max - spend the first 20 minutes crafting your set. See everything once or twice and then come back to here and post your feelings it would be interesting to read them. Except I would have been unsubbed and moved to another game
Beyond Earth is looking good2 -
Cogo✭✭✭✭✭
✭That's funny... all the low level players commenting about end game. You cannot form an educated opinion over something you have not experienced. Period.
Thank you! Was looking for something funny to screenshot for our homepage news update.How long does it take to reach the level cap?
Updated 03/01/2014 10:49 PM
The time it takes to reach the cap at level 50 will vary from person to person. There are 50 levels, but there are also many skill lines to complete.
For example, every player can learn every armor class and use every type of weapon by filling out each of their skill lines. There are also Mage's Guild and Fighter's Guild lines as well as other types of skills.
As you can see, the level cap is just one aspect of character progression.
https://help.elderscrollsonline.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/1919/kw/max levelOghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
Orc Weapon Specialist and Warchief of the Ebonheart Pact - Trueflame Cyrodiil War Campaign
Guildsite: The Nephilim
"I don't agree with what you are saying, but I'll defend to the death your right to say it"
-Voltaire
"My build? Improvise, overcome and adapt!"1 -
Stratti✭✭✭✭✭@Cogo
Are you tripping?
So your solution to the lack of end game content and low replayability is to make a toon who at V14 is a tank/ duel wield assassin / berserking 2H weilder / Awesome fire mage who can double as a Healer with a change of outfit and gear.
Have you looked at the subscription levels - last count was 700k . From one of the biggest selling titles of ALL time : Skyrim to 700k . That amount of subscriptions is nothing short of failure
And if you were wondering I was in beta for months before launch and people were already flagging this as to be an issue. Those 20 or so people who beta with me are not in and didnt bother passing 50.
I get your a fanboi - I understand it . Ultimately your a rose sniffer - you wander around with your mouth open taking in the sights and swallowing butterflies.
That is great - I applaud it . But when you come to your senses and finish your exploration you will find yourself alone in the game.3 -
TehMagnus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭@Cogo
Are you tripping?
So your solution to the lack of end game content and low replayability is to make a toon who at V14 is a tank/ duel wield assassin / berserking 2H weilder / Awesome fire mage who can double as a Healer with a change of outfit and gear.
Have you looked at the subscription levels - last count was 700k . From one of the biggest selling titles of ALL time : Skyrim to 700k . That amount of subscriptions is nothing short of failure
And if you were wondering I was in beta for months before launch and people were already flagging this as to be an issue. Those 20 or so people who beta with me are not in and didnt bother passing 50.
I get your a fanboi - I understand it . Ultimately your a rose sniffer - you wander around with your mouth open taking in the sights and swallowing butterflies.
That is great - I applaud it . But when you come to your senses and finish your exploration you will find yourself alone in the game.
700k was faked and isn't even available on the website that published the data anymore. I'd be amazed if the game had more than 400k active subs with both megaservers combined.2 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭
Thank you! Was looking for something funny to screenshot for our homepage news update.
Cool. You could post it under the tag "educational" and learn something.
"For example"
I sure hope you didn't miss the words in bold letters. That would be embarrassing, wouldn't it? (By the way, you can get all the skill lines to max level in 2 days).Edited by DDuke on September 29, 2014 9:50AM1 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭gamerlucretiusb14_ESO wrote: »
Come now, please.
Adding replayability to the game by implementing some much requested itemization changes to keep players engaged even after reaching end game isn't constructive criticism?
I'm eager to hear your constructive take on the subject, after you've reached the end game so you'll atleast know what you're talking about.gamerlucretiusb14_ESO wrote: »
That isn't constructive criticism.
I'm not bored because I did everything "faster than average players", which in itself is false, because I spent a ridiculous amount of time leveling, going through the books & dialogue & filling my HarvestMap addon (hey, it's addictive..).
I'm bored because there is no good reasons to do anything again (proper itemization).gamerlucretiusb14_ESO wrote: »
No, I would rather the maximum number of people remain. The more people that play an MMO the better it becomes, it doesn't matter how you play... only that you pay.
Ooooh! Is that a sensible post from you? Well done!
Obviously, you want people to play an MMO, no matter how they play, whether they play a lot, or if they play 1-2 hours a week.
To keep the people who play the game actively, you need end game to have replayability.gamerlucretiusb14_ESO wrote: »If "content" were something you could pump out of the ground they might find a seemly limitless supply of it... but what I see you doing is ignoring the effort put into the game over the first six months... and wanting more, faster.
Aww... your previous post was so promising
As stated a few too many times in previous posts, the problem isn't the lack of content, but the lack of rewards for that content. No rewards = no replayability. No one is expecting them to pump out content faster than they are (though it'd be nice if they released some for PvP also), but merely implementing some much needed changes to itemization in order to keep players around (like an MMO should).gamerlucretiusb14_ESO wrote: »Impatience is the bane of playing a game hardcore, but don't try to pass it off as constructive.
If I was impatient, I would've given up on this game already 2 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭I love this game except it is now complete for me. Complete in that my toon is already very powerful - no gear will improve it markedly . The amount of people in the group finder is zero. My guild is still active but hey can't be relying on guildies all the time. The reward for effort in this game = 0
In my view this game is for achievement hunters , crafters , immersionists and completionists. Not much different to Skyrim to be honest except Skyrim was a vastly superior game with a vastly superior storyline. Only thing that stopped me playing it still is my character became so powerful it could kill everything easily and there was no more to complete
Same thing here just didnt take as long.
Now they may come up with content in two months - I will watch for it but it would have to be very good and last longer than 2 days
But I think that is the crux of the problem.
Now this may be assumption I don't know...but this is the impression I get.
You developed your character in the 1-50 zones [PVE] and once you character was 50+ you were now at a stage where you were competent enough to enter PVP and the real center piece of the game. Your character was essentially finished and ready.
ie. Cyrodiil was the end game. You move from themepark to sandbox.
Problem was many didn't want to go to cyrodiil. Kind of scuppered the original idea. They wanted to stay in PVE instead.
So now instead of the situation where we go 1-50 pve > pvp and then come back to pve when they make new content. We get 1-50pve > wheres the endgame ? > add more pve > wheres the endgame ? etc.
The only thing I will add is the preparation form 1-50 was pretty much single player. It should have had options to use mercenaries or group and had much more group content in that 1-50 training and development. But its not a lost cause. They can still add group training after solo training and development which I guess was the whole idea of craglorn. Your character was now built and trained for solo....now its time to develop it in a group.Edited by Rune_Relic on September 29, 2014 11:12AMAnything that can be exploited will be exploited2