Incapacitating Strike Silence 5.0.3

Feanor

As written in the other thread, I don’t particularly care about the change because ZOS killed my solo playing with faction locks and no 2nd Cyrodiil noCP campaign.

Still it’s absolutely eye-opening that someone at ZOS thought this was a great idea of replacing Minor Mangle. I expect ZOS to make Negate useless again when they add “counter-play” to silences. We have already been there - in the past you could break free from a Negate, and it was utterly useless therefore.

actosh

ruikkarikun wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno, @ZOS_BrianWheeler

Bring back major defile to incap back please. Maybe change numbers a bit, but please stop do this insane changes. it's not healthy for game community.

I mean do you really think we are all fools?
Some of us are developers too. We know how it works.

You are doing changes for changes. It's a cheap and low way to keep player interest. What is it? Too much "capitalism"?

Why you don't focus on huge lags/performance and other high priority things instead of nerf-buff circle.
If you want to force people to leave, you are doing it well. Keep going.

Again you CAN stop this cheap way, it's all in your hands, just change your minds about strategy please.
Otherwise this game will be empty soon.

While I love a lot about eso gamesystems, combat and balance kinda suck.

StShoot

Wolfahm wrote: »

HELLO I AM A PVP-MAGSORC LOBBYIST AND I WANT TO NEVER DIE AND RULE ALL OF NIRN! LISTEN TO MY TEARS AND SHAPE THE GAME TO MY WILL SINCE 2014!

you know the same goes for stamblades right? a decent nb with cloak and shade dies even less than a mag sorc. im still waiting when all those stamblades who are hyped for the incap will realize that they wont be able to cloak spam or use shade if they get hit by it and start crying

tbh honest i think it would be fun if that change goes live (i would stop playing who wants my loot xD?) but it would be realy entertaining to see the forum blades cry about their own class and the to high nb pop in cyro

StShoot

Mr_Nobody wrote: »

Well the usual mag character can't roll 3 times in a row. Or block without doing anything, since you would already be 10k hp down.

While you are all QQing, ill also mention that it does not give cc immunity for its duration, meaning u can get chained, or feared/ccd while with silence on you, making you completely vulnerable.

Elder Stamina Online, here we go. This is upfront the most *** thing ive read in a while.

Your typical scenario - open from cloak with a HA/incap, click whatever other skills u got, collect the AP and move on.

They think they are changing/improving the game PvP wise but they are not. Fix/nerf core problems like purge bots in PvP etc. The campaigns lag due to stacking and only Purge allows grps to stack.

Take my insightfull i dont even thought about chains/necropull/silverlash

Get incaped try to run and get chained into the zerg

Derra

Anti_Virus wrote: »

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

seventyfive wrote: »

I am hopeful.

I am not. Here is how it will work out: The "Counterplay" will gut Negate, the only effective means to kill zergballs, purgeballs and all sorts of other troll tactics. So in the end we all lose.

ZOS need to man up, admit it was a bad idea and just drop it. This thread should give them a pretty clear idea about how the players think about it.

False, not everyone is against this change.

Im for it.

Most ppl here didn’t even test the change on pts, a silly knee jerk reaction is all this thread is about.

Some changes are just so blantantly wrong for anyone actually playing the game with multiple chars and specs that there is no careful evaluation and playtesting neccessary.

Summerset Runecage was such a change. Anyone with a brain was posting how it was broken op without playtesting it (and morons were defending it). Guess what - it was broken op and got changed.

This has potential to be worse.

Maulkin

Anti_Virus wrote: »

cazlonb16_ESO wrote: »

seventyfive wrote: »

I am hopeful.

I am not. Here is how it will work out: The "Counterplay" will gut Negate, the only effective means to kill zergballs, purgeballs and all sorts of other troll tactics. So in the end we all lose.

ZOS need to man up, admit it was a bad idea and just drop it. This thread should give them a pretty clear idea about how the players think about it.

False, not everyone is against this change.

Im for it.

Most ppl here didn’t even test the change on pts, a silly knee jerk reaction is all this thread is about.

You’re right. He should have clarified; anyone with a brain who cares about balance.

Now which of these essential prerequisites are you missing?

StShoot

Chelo wrote: »

FlamingBeard wrote: »

Gilliam is the most biased developer

This is his first game as a Dev, and most of this Devs are new to MMOs...

but this game is 5 years old, we just celebrated 5 years of bugs, laggs and unballance in the most recent event. After 5 years there should be a clear course, but every patch i just see lots of nerfs/unwanted changes and big back paddeling and (sorry but i have to say it) *** adjustments

kornjona

why ppl crying??
its just 3 seconds, a moment

after hitted by incap, roll dodge

then, 2 seconds passed

jcm2606

kornjona wrote: »

why ppl crying??
its just 3 seconds, a moment

after hitted by incap, roll dodge

then, 2 seconds passed

1. Magicka builds don't have enough stamina to afford spamming dodge like that, especially with multiple Nightblades on their ass (with something as strong as this, there will be a meta built around this).
2. Incap -> Start combo until opponent blocks or dodges -> Fear -> Continue combo through fear. Magicka builds won't be able to afford spamming dodge with fear cutting right through it.

UlfricWinterfell

Attention

Following meme is a spoiler for game of thrones season 8 episode 4. Watch it on own risk.

Cinbri

I have suggestion to zos - waste your utterly limited time on thinking how to adjust and fix weakest pvp classes instead of thinking how to overbuff already superior ones.

Feanor

@jcm2606

Especially because the 5.0.0 iteration of Fear now hits 6 targets and they no longer run away from the caster. You don’t necessarily need to kill outright with Incap. It’s enough that it ensures a completely drained stam pool if you play it right.

R3A1

Would be so nice if anyone at zos responsible for changes like this actually PVPs.....

Morgul667

No seriously ZOS just revert it

ilcavallo

StShoot wrote: »

Wolfahm wrote: »

HELLO I AM A PVP-MAGSORC LOBBYIST AND I WANT TO NEVER DIE AND RULE ALL OF NIRN! LISTEN TO MY TEARS AND SHAPE THE GAME TO MY WILL SINCE 2014!

you know the same goes for stamblades right? a decent nb with cloak and shade dies even less than a mag sorc. im still waiting when all those stamblades who are hyped for the incap will realize that they wont be able to cloak spam or use shade if they get hit by it and start crying

tbh honest i think it would be fun if that change goes live (i would stop playing who wants my loot xD?) but it would be realy entertaining to see the forum blades cry about their own class and the to high nb pop in cyro

The same doesn't go for NBs. I've never seen a more triggered reaction from PTS notes - look at all the threads about NBs. It's like some kind of sick obsession.

And a decent NB with cloak and shade dies even less than a magsorc? Jesus Christ, I think I've heard it all now.

The days of solo/small group play are long gone. Vivec is mostly zergs and ball groups. Meanwhile you guys are all worked up over a squishy stamblade hanging out on the sidelines. Sure they can roll dodge and cloak a few times before running out of magicka but their health recoveries usually suck and they have no burst heal. It's not like they stack health or resistances. I mean shade doesn't even work half the time. It blows my mind how so many people think NBs are OP in PVP.

Please do us all a favor. If you can't figure out how to break cloak and beat or at least not die over and over to "OP" stamblades just take your PC or console and place it in your bathtub full of water instead of embarrassing yourself on the forums and pissing away everyone's time because the game isn't exactly the way you want it.

Obir

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

Hey guys @ZOS_BrianWheeler and @Gilliamtherogue , i feel cheated, bc in the last few month i defend and praise u, even if i disliked 1 of your ideas or i disagreed with it, i did that bc i thought u have a VISION about this game, it has so much potential and its seemed, at least from here that u have pland route what we will walk through during the next few patch. You can like it or dislike it but at least there is a hope to arrive into something more coherent more "balanced" combat system.
It was so fun to wacth u guys in ESO LIVE, for me it gave strenght and hope to belive that the game grow up one day to the expectations.

But now its all blur out the contradiction between the initial developer comment

"Death Stroke has been notorious for being a very potent Ultimate. We wanted to retain this ability's identity as a mark for death on your target, helping the Nightblade excel at assassinating high priority targets while reducing some of the over bearing nature it enables. You'll note that Soul Harvest has been left untouched, which is due to the morph only granting a conditional bonus previously. Now, Soul Harvest offers a guaranteed bonus with a conditional, while Incapacitating Strike doubles down on offering two powerful conditional bonuses."

and whats happening now with incap in v5.0.3

What is really traumatize me tho is the whole process, you START (???) investigating counter-paly options after the reaction what its obvious to anyone. I mean i just dont get. It should happen during the brainstroming in my world. I kind of the guy who always try to watch the bright side of things. However this method show me that your not really thought and speak trought that whole change which is really disappointing.

There is still 11 day untill preorderd Elswyrs releas so u have time to revert this. Iam kinda hope that your are just under heavy pressure bc if the releas date is comeing and its awful thing just slipped through somehow, iam naive dont i?

Bosov

StShoot wrote: »

Wolfahm wrote: »

HELLO I AM A PVP-MAGSORC LOBBYIST AND I WANT TO NEVER DIE AND RULE ALL OF NIRN! LISTEN TO MY TEARS AND SHAPE THE GAME TO MY WILL SINCE 2014!

you know the same goes for stamblades right? a decent nb with cloak and shade dies even less than a mag sorc. im still waiting when all those stamblades who are hyped for the incap will realize that they wont be able to cloak spam or use shade if they get hit by it and start crying

tbh honest i think it would be fun if that change goes live (i would stop playing who wants my loot xD?) but it would be realy entertaining to see the forum blades cry about their own class and the to high nb pop in cyro

A decent one might die less than a sorc but that nightblade has to be atleast decent. Even the worst sorc player can just spam shields and streak away to stay alive. If this goes live they wont be able to do that anymore. Nightblade will still be able to dodgeroll and stay alive that way.

Mostly sorc player cry about this change because well... silence just totally counters their defense.

cHIIMEERa

Cinbri wrote: »

I have suggestion to zos - waste your utterly limited time on thinking how to adjust and fix weakest pvp classes instead of thinking how to overbuff already superior ones.

Out of curiousity, which class may that be?

Deathlord92

fullheartcontainer wrote: »

I'm sorry but this is absolutely the most ridiculous change I've ever seen in this game. If it goes live with a silence I'll be leaving this game and cancelling my sub.

Stamblade has been S-tier for PvE and PvP since launch. I don't understand how devs can tack on MASSIVELY overpowered changes like this to Stamblades at the last moment in a PTS cycle while entirely ignoring the existence of classes like Stamsorc and Stamplar.

Actually mag sorc has always been on equal lv to stamblade in pvp any experience player srry good player will tell you this.

labambao

Just kill them before they incap you

StShoot

ilcavallo wrote: »

StShoot wrote: »

Wolfahm wrote: »

HELLO I AM A PVP-MAGSORC LOBBYIST AND I WANT TO NEVER DIE AND RULE ALL OF NIRN! LISTEN TO MY TEARS AND SHAPE THE GAME TO MY WILL SINCE 2014!

you know the same goes for stamblades right? a decent nb with cloak and shade dies even less than a mag sorc. im still waiting when all those stamblades who are hyped for the incap will realize that they wont be able to cloak spam or use shade if they get hit by it and start crying

tbh honest i think it would be fun if that change goes live (i would stop playing who wants my loot xD?) but it would be realy entertaining to see the forum blades cry about their own class and the to high nb pop in cyro

The same doesn't go for NBs. I've never seen a more triggered reaction from PTS notes - look at all the threads about NBs. It's like some kind of sick obsession.

And a decent NB with cloak and shade dies even less than a magsorc? Jesus Christ, I think I've heard it all now.

The days of solo/small group play are long gone. Vivec is mostly zergs and ball groups. Meanwhile you guys are all worked up over a squishy stamblade hanging out on the sidelines. Sure they can roll dodge and cloak a few times before running out of magicka but their health recoveries usually suck and they have no burst heal. It's not like they stack health or resistances. I mean shade doesn't even work half the time. It blows my mind how so many people think NBs are OP in PVP.

Please do us all a favor. If you can't figure out how to break cloak and beat or at least not die over and over to "OP" stamblades just take your PC or console and place it in your bathtub full of water instead of embarrassing yourself on the forums and pissing away everyone's time because the game isn't exactly the way you want it.

squishi stamblades? lol i think you play your nb wrong if its to squishi (ever thought about trollking? its pretty decent when you use it while cloaked) also i dont want to compare streak+shields with cloak+shade both are realy strong combos to get away but if i had to choose between those two i would decide for that skill that negates all dots, and gives me a big advantage against ranged enemys additional weapon dmg and an auto crit.

i guess you play on na/ps4/xbox ? because there are still pretty good smallscalers(>5) on pc vivec eu, you can even see some smallscalers on sotha (even if its harder)

Let me ask you a question, is it fine for you that one class to has a conter against EVERY other magica class in the game? because if you call that ballance, you shouldnt play an online game at all.
But you are right cloak alone isnt a problem, just anoying (thats one of the reasons why magblades are so bad) it only gets a problem if it combined with snare/root immunety, shade and insane movementspeed

I gave up arguing with (stam)nb mains a long time ago (some of them are reasonable) but most of them are just salty kids, a gank goes wrong because the sorc managed to shield, dk/templar healed to fast ? just start crying about healbots, tanks and sorcs

PS.
I should clarify that i talked about heavy amor stamblades in my post, not about magblades or mediumblades (even if nbs can get the most out of medium amor)

universal_wrath

Can we make negare moveable, like eye of the storm destro ulti?

labambao

universal_wrath wrote: »

Can we make negare moveable, like eye of the storm destro ulti?

only if caster would affect by his own negate

Mitaka211

@ZOS_BrianWheeler how about you address the classes that have clear issues in pvp , instead of pandering to the two most popular classes , sorc and nb. Unless you haven't noticed not everyone wants to play as a magika caster. How about you have a hard look at stamsorcs and stamplars and all the feedback players have bothered to leave to the reps. The lack of attention is a slap in the face to a lot of player. But praise the sun am i right?
Hey , why would you care about unpopular play styles ?
Explain to me how you butcher Empowering Sweep , hey one more reason for us templars not to use our own ults am i right, and make the conclusion that NB (the strongest class in the current meta) needs silence. Combine it with their fear and i am looking forward to your "possible" counters without blowing up all your stamina and dying 3 sec later. You know, us stamplars can't use 90% of our abilities after all and have no way of mitigating damage, i am really looking forward to using the troll king set for the rest of this mmos life if i want to play with stamplar . Great range of choices just as we were promised!
Dks can get a cool thematic ult , which is one of the coolest looking things in the game but stamsorcs and stamplars are left being generic warriors 2.0 . Can we at least get any information that you are looking into these clear unbalances, and most importantly lack of identity stamsorc and stamplars face?

ku5h

#Subverting our expectations

ilcavallo

StShoot wrote: »

ilcavallo wrote: »

StShoot wrote: »

Wolfahm wrote: »

HELLO I AM A PVP-MAGSORC LOBBYIST AND I WANT TO NEVER DIE AND RULE ALL OF NIRN! LISTEN TO MY TEARS AND SHAPE THE GAME TO MY WILL SINCE 2014!

you know the same goes for stamblades right? a decent nb with cloak and shade dies even less than a mag sorc. im still waiting when all those stamblades who are hyped for the incap will realize that they wont be able to cloak spam or use shade if they get hit by it and start crying

tbh honest i think it would be fun if that change goes live (i would stop playing who wants my loot xD?) but it would be realy entertaining to see the forum blades cry about their own class and the to high nb pop in cyro

The same doesn't go for NBs. I've never seen a more triggered reaction from PTS notes - look at all the threads about NBs. It's like some kind of sick obsession.

And a decent NB with cloak and shade dies even less than a magsorc? Jesus Christ, I think I've heard it all now.

The days of solo/small group play are long gone. Vivec is mostly zergs and ball groups. Meanwhile you guys are all worked up over a squishy stamblade hanging out on the sidelines. Sure they can roll dodge and cloak a few times before running out of magicka but their health recoveries usually suck and they have no burst heal. It's not like they stack health or resistances. I mean shade doesn't even work half the time. It blows my mind how so many people think NBs are OP in PVP.

Please do us all a favor. If you can't figure out how to break cloak and beat or at least not die over and over to "OP" stamblades just take your PC or console and place it in your bathtub full of water instead of embarrassing yourself on the forums and pissing away everyone's time because the game isn't exactly the way you want it.

squishi stamblades? lol i think you play your nb wrong if its to squishi (ever thought about trollking? its pretty decent when you use it while cloaked) also i dont want to compare streak+shields with cloak+shade both are realy strong combos to get away but if i had to choose between those two i would decide for that skill that negates all dots, and gives me a big advantage against ranged enemys additional weapon dmg and an auto crit.

i guess you play on na/ps4/xbox ? because there are still pretty good smallscalers(>5) on pc vivec eu, you can even see some smallscalers on sotha (even if its harder)

Let me ask you a question, is it fine for you that one class to has a conter against EVERY other magica class in the game? because if you call that ballance, you shouldnt play an online game at all.
But you are right cloak alone isnt a problem, just anoying (thats one of the reasons why magblades are so bad) it only gets a problem if it combined with snare/root immunety, shade and insane movementspeed

I gave up arguing with (stam)nb mains a long time ago (some of them are reasonable) but most of them are just salty kids, a gank goes wrong because the sorc managed to shield, dk/templar healed to fast ? just start crying about healbots, tanks and sorcs

PS.
I should clarify that i talked about heavy amor stamblades in my post, not about magblades or mediumblades (even if nbs can get the most out of medium amor)

Honestly, I don't even play on a NB anymore. I main a stamsorc on NA. So, yeah, I know what it really feels like to be a little underpowered sometimes. But it's still fun or at least it has been.

Medium is pretty much a death sentence in CP PVP right now with or without troll king and heavy blades just don't have the same mobility, sustain and burst. Trying to play a NB like a DK just doesn't work.

Here's what I think about silence on incap:
Is it OP? Yeah. Do I really care? No. I mean let them have their fun. They're a single target class that's most effective in 5+ pieces of medium armor. That in itself is a tough spot to be in right now. They lost what minor endurance, minor beserk, major fracture and major defile from one of the Incap morphs? I don't know. I can't keep up with all the changes flying around.

Let's look at how we got here though. Most of the people complaining about Incap right now are the same people that couldn't 1v1 stamblades before when all you really had to do was survive their initial burst, break cloak and start putting pressure back on them. I mean I get hit with 8k Incaps. They're NBs, so it's going to hurt. But I never really felt like they were OP before this patch. So at what point do we stop turning the game upside down to please one or two classes or people that just can't seem to get the hang of PVP? Because this all seems to have been a waste of time that didn't result in very many improvements - maybe none overall.

heng14rwb17_ESO

THIS IS ABORMINATION !
THE END IS NEAR !

Thraben

ZOS_BrianWheeler wrote: »

Heyo Gang!

We have been reading your feedback about the changes to Incapacitating Strike and are investigating counter-play options for the Silence that's been added to this ability.

First of all, your main thought was right: In basically every MMO a rogue-like class has something like a single target silence ability.

Though able MagSorcs can easiliy counter it, MagTemplars and MagWardens won`t be that lucky.

So please increase the Ulti cost to 300 or so, AND add another condition that rewards skillful play, which also prevents a Stealth- Stun/Fear- Silence combo. Like: After using Dodge roll, this skill also silences the target for one second.

And if you`re done with it, please look at more pressing problems:

1) the hitbox of Jabs and Fiery Breath,
2) creating a grace period for pets before they respawn, so that the double bar problem is solved,
3) the sorry state of the MagWarden (I think Swarm could be the key here)
4) and the lack of a conjured weapon class spammable for StamSorcs (Bound armaments)



Thank you.

iJuacob

I'm so glad a lot of salty people are gonna take some breaks ))))

Deathlord92

Mitaka211 wrote: »

@ZOS_BrianWheeler how about you address the classes that have clear issues in pvp , instead of pandering to the two most popular classes , sorc and nb. Unless you haven't noticed not everyone wants to play as a magika caster. How about you have a hard look at stamsorcs and stamplars and all the feedback players have bothered to leave to the reps. The lack of attention is a slap in the face to a lot of player. But praise the sun am i right?
Hey , why would you care about unpopular play styles ?
Explain to me how you butcher Empowering Sweep , hey one more reason for us templars not to use our own ults am i right, and make the conclusion that NB (the strongest class in the current meta) needs silence. Combine it with their fear and i am looking forward to your "possible" counters without blowing up all your stamina and dying 3 sec later. You know, us stamplars can't use 90% of our abilities after all and have no way of mitigating damage, i am really looking forward to using the troll king set for the rest of this mmos life if i want to play with stamplar . Great range of choices just as we were promised!
Dks can get a cool thematic ult , which is one of the coolest looking things in the game but stamsorcs and stamplars are left being generic warriors 2.0 . Can we at least get any information that you are looking into these clear unbalances, and most importantly lack of identity stamsorc and stamplars face?

Stam sorc sure definitely needs love stamplar this made me laugh as its a very strong class already and a very common one in groups right next to stam warden magblade deserves more attention then stamplar lol 😂