ZoS, we are NOT with you!

CromulentForumID

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

So you want to use your ingame gold, aka get it freely.. What did you seriously expect the company has to make a living, so we have the crownstore.. the new cosmetics are not an advantage or neccessity in any way, so of course you must pay for it.. The prices may be a little high, but wanting them for free is the rant of a spoiled mind

I don't think "of course" is right. There are MMOs out there that charge in-game currency, and they do not require a sub. Real world money for appearance changes is not is mandatory or required.

I also don't think you can just label this as spoiled. I find character appearance a pretty fundamental part of any RPG. You are basically logging in and playing dolls while also killing some mobs. Should a fundamental part of a game be locked behind a paywall?

You can believe that. I can disagree. Neither of us is right. However, dismissing the opinion out-of-hand as whiney or spoiled is where you are wrong.

Rohamad_Ali

The points already been made in this thread by @AClockworkLime . If people really don't care then a change really wouldn't make a difference to them and getting the benefits of lowered cost really wouldn't hurt any of them . It's just trolling to say otherwise .

BomblePants

Seriously guys.... where do you think the money to keep the game going is going to come from!!!

natewook

BomblePants wrote: »

Seriously guys.... where do you think the money to keep the game going is going to come from!!!

subs.....

natewook

crafting bags.....

natewook

mounts.....

natewook

pets....
outfits....
outfit dying....
mount lessons....
DLC's.....
gee, the list goes on and on.

Woeler

Yea you didn't want to pay sub when the game launched, now we get this. Can't blame them.

Rohamad_Ali

BomblePants wrote: »

Seriously guys.... where do you think the money to keep the game going is going to come from!!!

If ZOS lowers prices are you going to quit ? Will you tell them to take their game an shove it next crown sale or steam sale and say hell no I'm paying MORE money not less ! .?

Zennimax has 2 Billion dollars in revenue . I'm sure they're not closing any doors soon . Skyrim went on sale too so don't buy it . Wait for full price ....

BlackguardBob

RL haircut = RL money yep

unreal haircut in non essential video game = RL money. nope.

The tutorial character creation and appearance screen is free of charge. You simply cannot imagine that would be otherwise and actually cost you money. We all take that for granted and yet some of you actually support RL money be exchanged to ZoS for what is something that any decent game character generator would provide.

I am a subscriber and I have spent a small fortune on ESO which I am happy to do but this whole topic is just one bridge too far imo.

mike_de

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

So you want to use your ingame gold, aka get it freely.. What did you seriously expect the company has to make a living, so we have the crownstore.. the new cosmetics are not an advantage or neccessity in any way, so of course you must pay for it.. The prices may be a little high, but wanting them for free is the rant of a spoiled mind

If they get too greedy, like now, people stop subscribing, because it does not feel right to give these people more money. They don't deserve it, because they try to "rob us blind". Do you make trades with people you don't trust any longer to have your best interests in mind and give you a fair win-win situation?

That is the real problem here. It's the amount they charge, not the fact that they want money for it. I can live with that, it's business.

But the name change, as example is in my personal opinion 20 to 25 times overpriced. At least my feeling about value says that to me. And that I can not accept.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Long thread, TLDR.

My 2 cents. These were all things I wanted to see in the game. I wont address the dyes, because I subscribe.

Race Change: Probably a little pricey, but I am glad these are on the higher end. I think your race should be meaningful and changing should not be trivial. I was really worried it would become the Elder Khajiits Online this month, and god only knows what next month.

Barber Shop: I really dont like the way this was handled. If you want to structurally change your character, then I can see it costing a nice chunk of money. For hair, makeup, and markings, its downright absurd. I am 100% fine with selling unique hairstyles or tattoos or whatever, but if I want a hair cut, it should not cost 1000 crowns each time. There should be an in game option to spend gold to change to known hairstyles. They could certainly make it pricey, this game needs a few more gold sinks. If they want to sell unique stuff in the CS to unlock, go nuts, but there should be a basic barbershop in game.

Name Change: This is probably the most baffling of them all. I will be the first to admit that I didnt give a lot of thought to my character names 2+ years ago. I had never played an MMO. My first toon was a girl named Artemis, not something I like to be called in TS, but it didnt matter. I soloed. It wasnt until I had 5 or 6 toons (12 months+ into the game), and had a guild that started to know me as "Bear" based on my @ name (go morrowind). I was really hoping to do something fun and creative, as many do, by giving all their characters names based on a theme, so people would know who I was when playing one of my many alts. 2500 for this is completely out of control. This did not take any fancy programming as they have been forcing name changes on players (myself included) since launch. This one makes me angry.

ADarklore

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

BomblePants wrote: »

Seriously guys.... where do you think the money to keep the game going is going to come from!!!

If ZOS lowers prices are you going to quit ? Will you tell them to take their game an shove it next crown sale or steam sale and say hell no I'm paying MORE money not less ! .?

Zennimax has 2 Billion dollars in revenue . I'm sure they're not closing any doors soon . Skyrim went on sale too so don't buy it . Wait for full price ....

Show me the source of this?!? Otherwise you're just speculating, and badly at that. If ZOS wasn't having money issues, then why would they be laying off people, closing call centers, and constantly re-inventing their game every year. First it was subsciption-based, then came Tamriel Unlimited, and now One Tamriel. Games only constantly have to reinvent themselves when they're doing poorly, and hearing that they only have 7M accounts doesn't bode well for a world-wide major class title... especially when lower quality and older MMO likes DCUO boasts double that.

Reevster

As others have already said, if you don't like the price "Dont Buy it" Pretty simple really, how can you defend people crying about the price? You dont need any of these new Crown store items to play so this whole thread is lame.

Rohamad_Ali

ADarklore wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

BomblePants wrote: »

Seriously guys.... where do you think the money to keep the game going is going to come from!!!

If ZOS lowers prices are you going to quit ? Will you tell them to take their game an shove it next crown sale or steam sale and say hell no I'm paying MORE money not less ! .?

Zennimax has 2 Billion dollars in revenue . I'm sure they're not closing any doors soon . Skyrim went on sale too so don't buy it . Wait for full price ....

Show me the source of this?!? Otherwise you're just speculating, and badly at that. If ZOS wasn't having money issues, then why would they be laying off people, closing call centers, and constantly re-inventing their game every year. First it was subsciption-based, then came Tamriel Unlimited, and now One Tamriel. Games only constantly have to reinvent themselves when they're doing poorly, and hearing that they only have 7M accounts doesn't bode well for a world-wide major class title... especially when lower quality and older MMO likes DCUO boasts double that.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZeniMax_Media

CromulentForumID

Lafer wrote: »

Why would you even complain about something minimal like you hair style , your character name etc i mean this is how they make their money there is no subscribtion fee and thats how they make their money apperance / mount etc .If you are tired of your style creat a new character it take 1-2 days max to get it level 50 .I mean seriously there are tons of mmo out there that charge for server swap , chacter name change ,hair style etc don't act like they are the first that came out with this concept .This is what you have to expect from a free to pay game.

1. It takes a lot more than 1-2 days to get to 50 for a lot of players. Is it possible? Yes. Is it possible without access to a lot of XP buffs and playing the game "normally" instead of excessive mob grinding? No. Is it possible if you can play at most 2 hours a day for those 2 days? No.

2. This game is not free to play. They probably got $45 from you, which is 3 months of a sub.

You can believe real money is OK to charge, but don't make up the reasons why it is.

biovitalb16_ESO

Name change is 2500...don't think I could drink enough whiskey to make me buy that and this was the one thing I wanted.

WhitePawPrints

BomblePants wrote: »

Seriously guys.... where do you think the money to keep the game going is going to come from!!!

I leave it to the business to create a quality product that is worth spending money on, and to create an inviting environment to make me want to go there to spend money.

Basic example: I go to a local pizza restaurant because they have good food. They offer tables and seats, napkins, and water for free, a welcoming environment. Now the same pizza restaurant is not doing so well in business, so they start charging for napkins, charging for water and charging for sitting (it cost money to clean those tables afterall!). All of sudden that welcoming environment has become a lot less so, so I go to the next door burger joint, where pricers are higher but the environment is still welcoming and product is better quality.

Therefore the pizza restaurant makes LESS money, and continues its spiral down the drain. This is basic business management.

ZoS is that pizza joint in the dying MMO genre.

petraeus1

ADarklore wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

BomblePants wrote: »

Seriously guys.... where do you think the money to keep the game going is going to come from!!!

If ZOS lowers prices are you going to quit ? Will you tell them to take their game an shove it next crown sale or steam sale and say hell no I'm paying MORE money not less ! .?

Zennimax has 2 Billion dollars in revenue . I'm sure they're not closing any doors soon . Skyrim went on sale too so don't buy it . Wait for full price ....

Show me the source of this?!? Otherwise you're just speculating, and badly at that. If ZOS wasn't having money issues, then why would they be laying off people, closing call centers, and constantly re-inventing their game every year. First it was subsciption-based, then came Tamriel Unlimited, and now One Tamriel. Games only constantly have to reinvent themselves when they're doing poorly, and hearing that they only have 7M accounts doesn't bode well for a world-wide major class title... especially when lower quality and older MMO likes DCUO boasts double that.

ZOS has had no news of lay-offs since after console launch they let go part of Customer Service, which is kinda normal for any launch.

Tamriel Unlimited was an actual business model change, which is indeed often a sign for a game that is not doing great financially - however in ZOS' case it can be explained partly by launching on console where people would have to pay double fees, one for the online service and the other for the individual game.

One Tamriel is something else entirely and unrelated: it's a change to how the game plays, similar to GW2 going switching to megaserver technology.

7M is a solid amount for a B2P title. F2P titles always have millions of accounts, and the amount of drop off in F2P titles is in the same vein greater. There's also a larger amount of bot accounts. An older MMO having more accounts, especially a F2P one, is only logical, isn't it?

I don't know about Rohamad's source, but neither is there much for saying ESO is doing bad.

Rohamad_Ali

Reevster wrote: »

As others have already said, if you don't like the price "Dont Buy it" Pretty simple really, how can you defend people crying about the price? You dont need any of these new Crown store items to play so this whole thread is lame.

Again if it means nothing to you then a lowered cost will not cause you any displeasure . Attempting to tell people what they can and can not do to make changes is pointless . ZOS asks for feedback from the community so they can make improvements . Just like with the Breton hero costume thread . People are allowed to make constructive criticism here .

Lysette

mike_de wrote: »

Daemons_Bane wrote: »

So you want to use your ingame gold, aka get it freely.. What did you seriously expect the company has to make a living, so we have the crownstore.. the new cosmetics are not an advantage or neccessity in any way, so of course you must pay for it.. The prices may be a little high, but wanting them for free is the rant of a spoiled mind

If they get too greedy, like now, people stop subscribing, because it does not feel right to give these people more money. They don't deserve it, because they try to "rob us blind". Do you make trades with people you don't trust any longer to have your best interests in mind and give you a fair win-win situation?

That is the real problem here. It's the amount they charge, not the fact that they want money for it. I can live with that, it's business.

But the name change, as example is in my personal opinion 20 to 25 times overpriced. At least my feeling about value says that to me. And that I can not accept.

If they would have sold packs with 8-12 tokens for the same price, I am certain they would have made a whole lot more sales in total - simply because pretty much everyone who buys something from the crown store at all, has minor flaws discovered on their characters (basically on all of them, if they are critical enough) and so it could be expected that all of those, who are interested in character apperance at all and buy from the crown store would have bought such a pack. And if pretty much all do that, it is much more revenue than if just a few do it and have to decide this for any of their characters again - it is by far easier to decide this for all of your characters, because at least one will have a flaw to be fixed if not several.

This would have been a clever marketing move - to sell this for the same price but as a pack of 8-12 tokens, and not just 1.

ADarklore

They've done exactly as I thought they would... they mark prices extremely high and then have a Crown sale... so instead of paying regular price, buying Crowns on sale you end up paying half-price. This is why when they have a sale I tend to stock up, because then when outrageous prices appear, I only have to pay half price since I bought half-priced Crowns.

This is how I think they justify their high mark-ups, because they expect people to be buying with sale-bought Crowns, and for those who don't stock up during sales or refuse to buy Crowns on sale, they're the ones who get stuck paying through the nose.

DenMoria

ADarklore wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

BomblePants wrote: »

Seriously guys.... where do you think the money to keep the game going is going to come from!!!

If ZOS lowers prices are you going to quit ? Will you tell them to take their game an shove it next crown sale or steam sale and say hell no I'm paying MORE money not less ! .?

Zennimax has 2 Billion dollars in revenue . I'm sure they're not closing any doors soon . Skyrim went on sale too so don't buy it . Wait for full price ....

Show me the source of this?!? Otherwise you're just speculating, and badly at that. If ZOS wasn't having money issues, then why would they be laying off people, closing call centers, and constantly re-inventing their game every year. First it was subsciption-based, then came Tamriel Unlimited, and now One Tamriel. Games only constantly have to reinvent themselves when they're doing poorly, and hearing that they only have 7M accounts doesn't bode well for a world-wide major class title... especially when lower quality and older MMO likes DCUO boasts double that.

Shall we all chip in for the $200 it's gonna take to get a copy of their financial report? I wouldn't doubt that, given all their franchises that they've easily made that much over the last year or so. They've made over 300mil from F4 alone (if not more) and it's not like Fallout or TES are the only franchises they own.

DenMoria

biovitalb16_ESO wrote: »

Name change is 2500...don't think I could drink enough whiskey to make me buy that.

But you'd spend that for a few scrolls that give you extra xp or some motifs?

vyndral13preub18_ESO

ADarklore wrote: »

They've done exactly as I thought they would... they mark prices extremely high and then have a Crown sale... so instead of paying regular price, buying Crowns on sale you end up paying half-price. This is why when they have a sale I tend to stock up, because then when outrageous prices appear, I only have to pay half price since I bought half-priced Crowns.

This is how I think they justify their high mark-ups, because they expect people to be buying with sale-bought Crowns, and for those who don't stock up during sales or refuse to buy Crowns on sale, they're the ones who get stuck paying through the nose.

Dont forget they also have to soak up all the crown from sub users before they get them to buy more. If they keep the price on things to low a lot of sub players might never spend more money on crowns.

Rohamad_Ali

petraeus1 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

BomblePants wrote: »

Seriously guys.... where do you think the money to keep the game going is going to come from!!!

If ZOS lowers prices are you going to quit ? Will you tell them to take their game an shove it next crown sale or steam sale and say hell no I'm paying MORE money not less ! .?

Zennimax has 2 Billion dollars in revenue . I'm sure they're not closing any doors soon . Skyrim went on sale too so don't buy it . Wait for full price ....

Show me the source of this?!? Otherwise you're just speculating, and badly at that. If ZOS wasn't having money issues, then why would they be laying off people, closing call centers, and constantly re-inventing their game every year. First it was subsciption-based, then came Tamriel Unlimited, and now One Tamriel. Games only constantly have to reinvent themselves when they're doing poorly, and hearing that they only have 7M accounts doesn't bode well for a world-wide major class title... especially when lower quality and older MMO likes DCUO boasts double that.

ZOS has had no news of lay-offs since after console launch they let go part of Customer Service, which is kinda normal for any launch.

Tamriel Unlimited was an actual business model change, which is indeed often a sign for a game that is not doing great financially - however in ZOS' case it can be explained partly by launching on console where people would have to pay double fees, one for the online service and the other for the individual game.

One Tamriel is something else entirely and unrelated: it's a change to how the game plays, similar to GW2 going switching to megaserver technology.

7M is a solid amount for a B2P title. F2P titles always have millions of accounts, and the amount of drop off in F2P titles is in the same vein greater. There's also a larger amount of bot accounts. An older MMO having more accounts, especially a F2P one, is only logical, isn't it?

I don't know about Rohamad's source, but neither is there much for saying ESO is doing bad.

My source above was a Wiki entry I double checked on other sites . It basicly says ZOS was worth a little over a billion in 2007 and is now estimated over 2.5 billion in 2016 . It looks on par with other financial reports pages . So the company worth has more then doubled in 9 years . Also a look into what ZOS Media does in other areas shows strong growth all around . They are considered by some as a power house company with enough strength to take over other companies and game titles .

In short , they're making lots of mula ...

DenMoria

WhitePawPrints wrote: »

BomblePants wrote: »

Seriously guys.... where do you think the money to keep the game going is going to come from!!!

I leave it to the business to create a quality product that is worth spending money on, and to create an inviting environment to make me want to go there to spend money.

Basic example: I go to a local pizza restaurant because they have good food. They offer tables and seats, napkins, and water for free, a welcoming environment. Now the same pizza restaurant is not doing so well in business, so they start charging for napkins, charging for water and charging for sitting (it cost money to clean those tables afterall!). All of sudden that welcoming environment has become a lot less so, so I go to the next door burger joint, where pricers are higher but the environment is still welcoming and product is better quality.

Therefore the pizza restaurant makes LESS money, and continues its spiral down the drain. This is basic business management.

ZoS is that pizza joint in the dying MMO genre.

I'm assuming you don't live in the US 'cause that's not the way business operates at all. You soak your customers for as much as you can get with a product that is as cheap as you can make it.

Equating a pizzeria to a game is a false equivalency. Besides - no one goes to restaurants anymore unless they really, really want to post a bad review on Yelp.

CromulentForumID

BomblePants wrote: »

Seriously guys.... where do you think the money to keep the game going is going to come from!!!

All of the other things they sell that are not a fundamental part of an RPG like basic character appearance?

Mounts, pets, costumes, horse training, crown trait stones, crown poisons, crown food, personal assistants with poor descriptions so people spend $50 to not get what they want....

They could even charge for anything new they create. For example, a new hat? Pay for the new hat!

People are drawing the line at paying a one-time fee to change anything about their appearance, even if they just want to change a beard or eye color.

It's true that ESO needs income to pay the bills and keep offering new content.

It's not even close to true that they need to monetize everything they possibly can in order to do it.

DenMoria

CromulentForumID wrote: »

BomblePants wrote: »

Seriously guys.... where do you think the money to keep the game going is going to come from!!!

All of the other things they sell that are not a fundamental part of an RPG like basic character appearance?

Mounts, pets, costumes, horse training, crown trait stones, crown poisons, crown food, personal assistants with poor descriptions so people spend $50 to not get what they want....

They could even charge for anything new they create. For example, a new hat? Pay for the new hat!

People are drawing the line at paying a one-time fee to change anything about their appearance, even if they just want to change a beard or eye color.

It's true that ESO needs income to pay the bills and keep offering new content.

It's not even close to true that they need to monetize everything they possibly can in order to do it.

Couldn't you just make your character and stick with it? I mean, honestly, I know we're obsessed with plastic surgery, but, please.

ADarklore

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

petraeus1 wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

BomblePants wrote: »

Seriously guys.... where do you think the money to keep the game going is going to come from!!!

If ZOS lowers prices are you going to quit ? Will you tell them to take their game an shove it next crown sale or steam sale and say hell no I'm paying MORE money not less ! .?

Zennimax has 2 Billion dollars in revenue . I'm sure they're not closing any doors soon . Skyrim went on sale too so don't buy it . Wait for full price ....

Show me the source of this?!? Otherwise you're just speculating, and badly at that. If ZOS wasn't having money issues, then why would they be laying off people, closing call centers, and constantly re-inventing their game every year. First it was subsciption-based, then came Tamriel Unlimited, and now One Tamriel. Games only constantly have to reinvent themselves when they're doing poorly, and hearing that they only have 7M accounts doesn't bode well for a world-wide major class title... especially when lower quality and older MMO likes DCUO boasts double that.

ZOS has had no news of lay-offs since after console launch they let go part of Customer Service, which is kinda normal for any launch.

Tamriel Unlimited was an actual business model change, which is indeed often a sign for a game that is not doing great financially - however in ZOS' case it can be explained partly by launching on console where people would have to pay double fees, one for the online service and the other for the individual game.

One Tamriel is something else entirely and unrelated: it's a change to how the game plays, similar to GW2 going switching to megaserver technology.

7M is a solid amount for a B2P title. F2P titles always have millions of accounts, and the amount of drop off in F2P titles is in the same vein greater. There's also a larger amount of bot accounts. An older MMO having more accounts, especially a F2P one, is only logical, isn't it?

I don't know about Rohamad's source, but neither is there much for saying ESO is doing bad.

My source above was a Wiki entry I double checked on other sites . It basicly says ZOS was worth a little over a billion in 2007 and is now estimated over 2.5 billion in 2016 . It looks on par with other financial reports pages . So the company worth has more then doubled in 9 years . Also a look into what ZOS Media does in other areas shows strong growth all around . They are considered by some as a power house company with enough strength to take over other companies and game titles .

In short , they're making lots of mula ...

There is a difference between Zenimax Media, Zenimax Online Studios and Bethesda. I don't believe ZOS (Zenimax Online Studios) is worth anywhere near a billion dollars... how can a startup company (ZOS started in 2007) be already worth over a billion before it even does anything?!?