Is this the removal of Veteran Ranks?! (DARK BROTHERHOOD NEWS)

hrothbern

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Looking over the eight pages of this thread, a realization occurs to me.

Half of our issues right now are created by Zenimax and their timing.

Whether you are for the removal of VR's or are against the removal, the timing and nature of the announcement sucks. They announced that VR's are going away with the release of the Dark Brotherhood. OK, I can understand that. But that's all they've told us.

They basically said: "OK guys, here's a sneak peek at what we're doing. We know that the removal of VR's is an extremely divisive issue in the Community, but we're only letting you know that they're going away and not telling you even the slightest bit about how we're doing it! So go ahead and speculate aimlessly and flame the dog crap out of each other while we hold off on any actual information for a month or longer!"

@ZOS_GinaBruno : While I am generally supportive of Zenimax, your handling of this game, and the updates you make to it to keep it running well and fun in most every aspect; I highly resent a bomb of this magnitude dropping on this Forum Community with zero information to keep the furor to a respectable level. Especially with such an emotionally charged issue about a game that people obviously feel deeply involved with.

This could have been handled much better. I also understand that as Community Manager, your hands were most likely very well tied as far as what information you were/were not allowed to share. So my ire isn't directed at you primarily. My ire is devoted to the people above you whom have ham-stringed you and did not allow any substantive information to be released regarding an issue of this magnitude.

Any Forum wars are your fault, Zenimax. I hope that's clear.

haha

info is apparently never enough for some people

1. If you say: "we are thinking about it"..... some people demand: "are you working on it !"
2. if you say: "we are working on it".... some people say: "are you working on it ?"
3. if you say again & again & again: "we are working on it"...... "pffff".... some people demand: "ETA, ETA, ETA... "
4. If you give an ETA..... some people say: "but what exactly ?, give us more info, we demand...."
5. If you give more info...... some people will say that the sky will fall down and it is bugged anyway
6. If the PTS is released and the natch potes as well..... some other people start testing

Elsonso

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

Kwivur wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

I'm curious about these crafter bags with ESO Plus. Are these limited? Do they have a max item count? Or do they carry every single mat in the game?

All mats and endless stacking

God that's almost worth getting ESO plus just for that! Splendid!

tbh thats one of the main reasons i got eso plus.... 98% of my bank storage is crafting material lol

Yeah, but I am not sure this will help bank space, if you have two crafters that need the same resources.

VDoom1

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys! We know there's a lot of questions about how Veteran Rank removal is going to work, and we will be publishing details on everything in the near future. Remember this article was just a first look; we're not going to leave you high and dry on the details for big changes like this.

I really hope this near future is near. As one can easily notice on just this post, we are kind of dying to get more information.

lardvader

lordrichter wrote: »

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

Kwivur wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

I'm curious about these crafter bags with ESO Plus. Are these limited? Do they have a max item count? Or do they carry every single mat in the game?

All mats and endless stacking

God that's almost worth getting ESO plus just for that! Splendid!

tbh thats one of the main reasons i got eso plus.... 98% of my bank storage is crafting material lol

Yeah, but I am not sure this will help bank space, if you have two crafters that need the same resources.

The bag will most likely be like account wide like the bank.

Uriel_Nocturne

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Looking over the eight pages of this thread, a realization occurs to me.

Half of our issues right now are created by Zenimax and their timing.

Whether you are for the removal of VR's or are against the removal, the timing and nature of the announcement sucks. They announced that VR's are going away with the release of the Dark Brotherhood. OK, I can understand that. But that's all they've told us.

They basically said: "OK guys, here's a sneak peek at what we're doing. We know that the removal of VR's is an extremely divisive issue in the Community, but we're only letting you know that they're going away and not telling you even the slightest bit about how we're doing it! So go ahead and speculate aimlessly and flame the dog crap out of each other while we hold off on any actual information for a month or longer!"

@ZOS_GinaBruno : While I am generally supportive of Zenimax, your handling of this game, and the updates you make to it to keep it running well and fun in most every aspect; I highly resent a bomb of this magnitude dropping on this Forum Community with zero information to keep the furor to a respectable level. Especially with such an emotionally charged issue about a game that people obviously feel deeply involved with.

This could have been handled much better. I also understand that as Community Manager, your hands were most likely very well tied as far as what information you were/were not allowed to share. So my ire isn't directed at you primarily. My ire is devoted to the people above you whom have ham-stringed you and did not allow any substantive information to be released regarding an issue of this magnitude.

Any Forum wars are your fault, Zenimax. I hope that's clear.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys! We know there's a lot of questions about how Veteran Rank removal is going to work, and we will be publishing details on everything in the near future. Remember this article was just a first look; we're not going to leave you high and dry on the details for big changes like this.

While that's going to be great whenever "Soon" comes around, and issue this divisive should never have been broached without at least some supporting information.

Regrettably, I must still stand by my post.

Elsonso

lardvader wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

Kwivur wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

I'm curious about these crafter bags with ESO Plus. Are these limited? Do they have a max item count? Or do they carry every single mat in the game?

All mats and endless stacking

God that's almost worth getting ESO plus just for that! Splendid!

tbh thats one of the main reasons i got eso plus.... 98% of my bank storage is crafting material lol

Yeah, but I am not sure this will help bank space, if you have two crafters that need the same resources.

The bag will most likely be like account wide like the bank.

We'll see. I would think that would have been called a crafting bank. Bags, so far, are associated with individual characters. My expectation is the same.

Uriel_Nocturne

hrothbern wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Looking over the eight pages of this thread, a realization occurs to me.

Half of our issues right now are created by Zenimax and their timing.

Whether you are for the removal of VR's or are against the removal, the timing and nature of the announcement sucks. They announced that VR's are going away with the release of the Dark Brotherhood. OK, I can understand that. But that's all they've told us.

They basically said: "OK guys, here's a sneak peek at what we're doing. We know that the removal of VR's is an extremely divisive issue in the Community, but we're only letting you know that they're going away and not telling you even the slightest bit about how we're doing it! So go ahead and speculate aimlessly and flame the dog crap out of each other while we hold off on any actual information for a month or longer!"

@ZOS_GinaBruno : While I am generally supportive of Zenimax, your handling of this game, and the updates you make to it to keep it running well and fun in most every aspect; I highly resent a bomb of this magnitude dropping on this Forum Community with zero information to keep the furor to a respectable level. Especially with such an emotionally charged issue about a game that people obviously feel deeply involved with.

This could have been handled much better. I also understand that as Community Manager, your hands were most likely very well tied as far as what information you were/were not allowed to share. So my ire isn't directed at you primarily. My ire is devoted to the people above you whom have ham-stringed you and did not allow any substantive information to be released regarding an issue of this magnitude.

Any Forum wars are your fault, Zenimax. I hope that's clear.

haha

info is apparently never enough for some people

1. If you say: "we are thinking about it"..... some people demand: "are you working on it !"
2. if you say: "we are working on it".... some people say: "are you working on it ?"
3. if you say again and again and again: "we are working on it"....... some people demand: "ETA, ETA, ETA... "
4. If you give an ETA..... some people say: "but what exactly ?, give us more info, we demand...."
5. If you give more info...... some people will say that the sky will fall down and it is bugged anyway
6. If the PTS is released and the natch potes as well..... some other people start testing

And look over the sheer bull-*** of the past 8-9 pages of flaming and vitriolic arguing. You're still going to try to tell me that some information alongside the reveal of VR's going away wouldn't have helped keep a lid on the furor?

hrothbern

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Looking over the eight pages of this thread, a realization occurs to me.

Half of our issues right now are created by Zenimax and their timing.

Whether you are for the removal of VR's or are against the removal, the timing and nature of the announcement sucks. They announced that VR's are going away with the release of the Dark Brotherhood. OK, I can understand that. But that's all they've told us.

They basically said: "OK guys, here's a sneak peek at what we're doing. We know that the removal of VR's is an extremely divisive issue in the Community, but we're only letting you know that they're going away and not telling you even the slightest bit about how we're doing it! So go ahead and speculate aimlessly and flame the dog crap out of each other while we hold off on any actual information for a month or longer!"

@ZOS_GinaBruno : While I am generally supportive of Zenimax, your handling of this game, and the updates you make to it to keep it running well and fun in most every aspect; I highly resent a bomb of this magnitude dropping on this Forum Community with zero information to keep the furor to a respectable level. Especially with such an emotionally charged issue about a game that people obviously feel deeply involved with.

This could have been handled much better. I also understand that as Community Manager, your hands were most likely very well tied as far as what information you were/were not allowed to share. So my ire isn't directed at you primarily. My ire is devoted to the people above you whom have ham-stringed you and did not allow any substantive information to be released regarding an issue of this magnitude.

Any Forum wars are your fault, Zenimax. I hope that's clear.

haha

info is apparently never enough for some people

1. If you say: "we are thinking about it"..... some people demand: "are you working on it !"
2. if you say: "we are working on it".... some people say: "are you working on it ?"
3. if you say again and again and again: "we are working on it"....... some people demand: "ETA, ETA, ETA... "
4. If you give an ETA..... some people say: "but what exactly ?, give us more info, we demand...."
5. If you give more info...... some people will say that the sky will fall down and it is bugged anyway
6. If the PTS is released and the natch potes as well..... some other people start testing

And look over the sheer bull-*** of the past 8-9 pages of flaming and vitriolic arguing. You're still going to try to tell me that some information alongside the reveal of VR's going away wouldn't have helped keep a lid on the furor?

Indeed

Because every bit of additional info you give answering a question.... will only lead to the next question
Also because giving more detailed info without the full overview coming from the complete info, will only lead to more speculations and negative comments

If I remember correctly Gina said at the last ESO live that because this Vet removal was such a big package, she would make a write up somewhere earlier.

We just have to wait for that... the full picture

Serenityx

It's so sad how I'm more excited for the basic things like locking items, character names actually showing up etc than the Dlc (which I'm also hyped about) but seriously, why are again BASIC things like item locking and character nameplates only now coming to a game that's been released for 2 years? I'm sorry but as far as Bethesda titles go, I will never purchase another game that Zos has had anything to do with. Unfortunately that includes doom 4. 90% sure I Won't be buying it because ZOS has touched it.

Lava_Croft

aubrey.baconb16_ESO wrote: »

Lava_Croft wrote: »

Sithis help us all while we are still neck-deep in the disaster that is the Thieves Guild update.

What? It had a dodgy start for the first two days. Not had a problem since. Not even ankle deep never mind neck deep.

Try looking here.

dimensional

Serenityx wrote: »

It's so sad how I'm more excited for the basic things like locking items, character names actually showing up etc than the Dlc (which I'm also hyped about) but seriously, why are again BASIC things like item locking and character nameplates only now coming to a game that's been released for 2 years? I'm sorry but as far as Bethesda titles go, I will never purchase another game that Zos has had anything to do with. Unfortunately that includes doom 4. 90% sure I Won't be buying it because ZOS has touched it.

The door is that way.

tinythinker

Serenityx wrote: »

It's so sad how I'm more excited for the basic things like locking items, character names actually showing up etc than the Dlc (which I'm also hyped about) but seriously, why are again BASIC things like item locking and character nameplates only now coming to a game that's been released for 2 years?

More basic stuff maybe for the future?

tinythinker

VDoom1 wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys! We know there's a lot of questions about how Veteran Rank removal is going to work, and we will be publishing details on everything in the near future. Remember this article was just a first look; we're not going to leave you high and dry on the details for big changes like this.

I really hope this near future is near. As one can easily notice on just this post, we are kind of dying to get more information.

Is two weeks "near"?

Magdalina

Saturn wrote: »

Shadesofkin wrote: »

I'm glad most of the things we've expected are being introduced. I'm concerned there aren't any new 4-man dungeons, BUT a scaled Sanctum isn't awful news.

Hopefully they'll make the Mantikora fight less RNG bullsh*t while they are at it

Hm, what do you mean? That fight is buggy as hell but I don't remember having too many issues with it aside from that.

Serpent now...meh, the random totem spawn mechanic isn't my favourite one.

Korah_Eaglecry

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Looking over the eight pages of this thread, a realization occurs to me.

Half of our issues right now are created by Zenimax and their timing.

Whether you are for the removal of VR's or are against the removal, the timing and nature of the announcement sucks. They announced that VR's are going away with the release of the Dark Brotherhood. OK, I can understand that. But that's all they've told us.

They basically said: "OK guys, here's a sneak peek at what we're doing. We know that the removal of VR's is an extremely divisive issue in the Community, but we're only letting you know that they're going away and not telling you even the slightest bit about how we're doing it! So go ahead and speculate aimlessly and flame the dog crap out of each other while we hold off on any actual information for a month or longer!"

@ZOS_GinaBruno : While I am generally supportive of Zenimax, your handling of this game, and the updates you make to it to keep it running well and fun in most every aspect; I highly resent a bomb of this magnitude dropping on this Forum Community with zero information to keep the furor to a respectable level. Especially with such an emotionally charged issue about a game that people obviously feel deeply involved with.

This could have been handled much better. I also understand that as Community Manager, your hands were most likely very well tied as far as what information you were/were not allowed to share. So my ire isn't directed at you primarily. My ire is devoted to the people above you whom have ham-stringed you and did not allow any substantive information to be released regarding an issue of this magnitude.

Any Forum wars are your fault, Zenimax. I hope that's clear.

haha

info is apparently never enough for some people

1. If you say: "we are thinking about it"..... some people demand: "are you working on it !"
2. if you say: "we are working on it".... some people say: "are you working on it ?"
3. if you say again and again and again: "we are working on it"....... some people demand: "ETA, ETA, ETA... "
4. If you give an ETA..... some people say: "but what exactly ?, give us more info, we demand...."
5. If you give more info...... some people will say that the sky will fall down and it is bugged anyway
6. If the PTS is released and the natch potes as well..... some other people start testing

And look over the sheer bull-*** of the past 8-9 pages of flaming and vitriolic arguing. You're still going to try to tell me that some information alongside the reveal of VR's going away wouldn't have helped keep a lid on the furor?

No it wouldnt. Theres always a demand for more information and there is always a group willing to throw temper tantrums at any opportunity they get. It happens every time ZOS releases new information and no matter how much they put out the petulant children continue to stomp their feet and cry about how unfair it is.

ZOS doesnt owe you or any of the crybabies in this thread jack****.

Enodoc

Torbschka wrote: »

I'm really excited about the district conquerer aspect, but why is there nothing about the duel function?

Iink wrote: »

Any news of mid game character customization? Like a barber shop, character editor, etc? In this update, or the next big update?
Thanks!

@Torbschka @link Duelling and barbershop were only just announced as in development. It'll likely be quite some time before they actually appear in-game.

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I'm curious about something... Instead of it showing our veteran rank near our names, will it instead show how many champion points we have? Or will it just say our names in general?

It should just say Level 50 and nothing more. They've never suggested any changes to the Champion System, and one of the features of the system is that "Champion Ranks" are invisible. If they changed it so that those were shown, they'd be bringing back one of the things that was bad about VRs (the visible player gap between VR1 and VR16).

tinythinker wrote: »

Champ points give you more heath, stamina, and magicka outright plus whatever perks you invest them in.

@tinythinker I've never really looked into this. Does this apply to every single CP, or is it only to CP spent in certain constellations? How much extra does each CP give?

SerasWhip wrote: »

why did you do this to us.. Now other alliances' quests will be useless

@SerasWhip No they won't, they'll become what they always should have been from the beginning - optional. They will be an option for gaining XP and skill points. No more of the implied forced progression that suggests you need to do Silver before Gold before Craglorn before <everything else> due to an arbitrary VR number each was assigned. That's also why "Champion Rank" should stay invisible - assigning the Silver zones as CP1-50 and the Gold zones as CP51-100 (for example) just reintroduces that implied linearity that should not exist.

Baranthus wrote: »

Struggling to get my head around this - when we lose the vet ranks - will we lose all the skill points we acquired?

MoreDino wrote: »

Anything official been mentioned on how the 15 attribute and skill points from vet levels are being handled? Will I lose them on my vet16s? Will new level 50 characters automatically be issued 15 points of each to be on par with older characters?

@Baranthus @MoreDino The previously-suggested plan is to move those extra points into the 1-50 levelling, so instead of just getting 1 point every level, you'll get 2 points on multiples of 5 and 3 points on multiples of 10.

tinythinker

Never calculated it @Enodoc but points in the green constellation give stamina, blue magicka, and red health.

Elsonso

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

And look over the sheer bull-*** of the past 8-9 pages of flaming and vitriolic arguing. You're still going to try to tell me that some information alongside the reveal of VR's going away wouldn't have helped keep a lid on the furor?

This "furor" is created by a few people in the forum, not ZOS. The forum knows that more information is coming because they read what was given to them, and it says so. It also says when we can expect it.

"We'll be going into more detail about the DLC game pack and base-game patch very soon including the release dates, price, and deep-dive articles. "

"Be on the lookout for additional information about Dark Brotherhood after we return from PAX East next week!"

ZOS tends to be terrible about communicating, and if I thought this was the case I would be in agreement, but this is not the case here.

Enodoc

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

CP's only bring passive effects (and fractions of a percentage point at a time I might add).

The move is going from feeling like you're actually accomplishing something (Vet Ranks), to a horizontal plateau where nothing really changes from CP to CP. This type of horizontal movement in character development creates stagnation, especially in the PvE side of the game.

VRs never originally had skill points and attribute points attached to them. The worst thing that ZOS ever did was adding those points to VR progression. If you take that fact into consideration, I see no negative side to removing VRs. All VRs do is separate players from content by an arbitrary number - they weren't supposed to be a content gating mechanism, they were supposed to be a reward for playing past 50. When they added content at VR11, VRs suddenly stopped being a reward for continued playing and instead became a grind wall to overcome. Removing VRs and transitioning to CPs should return us to that original design - a reward for playing, not a number to reach so that more content becomes available. They wouldn't have needed to remove VRs at all if they'd just implemented new content within VR1-10 instead of successively increasing the VR level that each content drop was designed for.

Apherius

Kwivur wrote: »

With the changing of traits.. I'll suspect needing to craft a new set.

i want just the delet of exploration and well-fited trait :P and it's all

Uriel_Nocturne

Korah_Eaglecry wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

hrothbern wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Looking over the eight pages of this thread, a realization occurs to me.

Half of our issues right now are created by Zenimax and their timing.

Whether you are for the removal of VR's or are against the removal, the timing and nature of the announcement sucks. They announced that VR's are going away with the release of the Dark Brotherhood. OK, I can understand that. But that's all they've told us.

They basically said: "OK guys, here's a sneak peek at what we're doing. We know that the removal of VR's is an extremely divisive issue in the Community, but we're only letting you know that they're going away and not telling you even the slightest bit about how we're doing it! So go ahead and speculate aimlessly and flame the dog crap out of each other while we hold off on any actual information for a month or longer!"

@ZOS_GinaBruno : While I am generally supportive of Zenimax, your handling of this game, and the updates you make to it to keep it running well and fun in most every aspect; I highly resent a bomb of this magnitude dropping on this Forum Community with zero information to keep the furor to a respectable level. Especially with such an emotionally charged issue about a game that people obviously feel deeply involved with.

This could have been handled much better. I also understand that as Community Manager, your hands were most likely very well tied as far as what information you were/were not allowed to share. So my ire isn't directed at you primarily. My ire is devoted to the people above you whom have ham-stringed you and did not allow any substantive information to be released regarding an issue of this magnitude.

Any Forum wars are your fault, Zenimax. I hope that's clear.

haha

info is apparently never enough for some people

1. If you say: "we are thinking about it"..... some people demand: "are you working on it !"
2. if you say: "we are working on it".... some people say: "are you working on it ?"
3. if you say again and again and again: "we are working on it"....... some people demand: "ETA, ETA, ETA... "
4. If you give an ETA..... some people say: "but what exactly ?, give us more info, we demand...."
5. If you give more info...... some people will say that the sky will fall down and it is bugged anyway
6. If the PTS is released and the natch potes as well..... some other people start testing

And look over the sheer bull-*** of the past 8-9 pages of flaming and vitriolic arguing. You're still going to try to tell me that some information alongside the reveal of VR's going away wouldn't have helped keep a lid on the furor?

ZOS doesnt owe you or any of the crybabies in this thread jack****.

And this line right here just invalidated the rest of your rebuttal...

Suru

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys! We know there's a lot of questions about how Veteran Rank removal is going to work, and we will be publishing details on everything in the near future. Remember this article was just a first look; we're not going to leave you high and dry on the details for big changes like this.

@ZOS_GinaBruno I just really hope you guys do are eerily aware that if the changes are done the wrong way that you guys could lose members of your community that have been around for a while. You guys are already leaving us high and dry.

Sord

Why are people acting so surprised that they are removing Veteran levels? They have been saying they plan to get rid of them since they made them as they new they were a temp fix until the CP system came out (or maybe they are surprised it is actually happening). They have also been saying, since they announced TG and DB that during one of these they would remove Vet ranks. I would also recommend people watch ESO Live via Twitch as they have been giving a lot of information during these.

Also remember they plan to increase the CP system cap during the DB which they forgot to mention by 50 or so as per a previous ESO Live with I think Matt Friar Hopefully they rethought this 50 CP increase per DLC or we will never see the end 3600 cap, thou that is probably a good thing.

Rune_Relic

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Nyx2 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

VDoom1 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

VDoom1 wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

VDoom1 wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.

All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)

Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?

Pretty much.

They've favored horizontal progression over actually progressing and growing a character for this game.

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

VDoom1 wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.

All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)

Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?

thats is correct, champion points were implemented as the complete replacement of vet system ... so lvl 50 will be the max level, then its champion points only after that

Well no offense to anyone or Zenimax but that seems really stupid. So really any kind of real progression of a character is gonna be removed. And what its being replaced with is, well not any kind of progression or leveling. What the heck? O.o How have people been looking forward to the removal of Veteran Ranks when its gonna be replaced with...nothing really.

Exactly my point.

As things stand now, I've got one VR16, one VR7, two VR6's. I'm at 337 CP right now, so all of my VR characters will be able to run with Rubedite/Ancestor Silk/Ruby Ash equipment the second that patch finishes downloading.

They'll all be "Max level". But then what?

What is there to strive for? Exploring the other Alliances? The Daggerfall Covenant is boring enough to put me to sleep on those insomnia nights. While I generally like the Aldmeri Dominion, they should have named it "The Explore Grahtwood Indefinitely Alliance"...

With the VR levels, I always had something to strive for. If not on my Main Sorcerer (my VR16), then by working on my Templar (my VR7). But there was always something to strive for. That next Vet Rank. That next Tier of equipment to craft.

Now... just like all of those other MMO's that instituted horizontal character improvement instead of upwardly mobile Character progressions via additional levels... I left those other MMO's because horizontal characters are damn boring.

There's nothing to strive for with that model.

And I really hope that boredom doesn't set in with ESO. I really, really like this game...

High five Uriel_Nocturne. Ive taken some gaming breaks now and then so I could have been VT 16 by now but Im at Veteran 6 on my main. But when the next update comes I will most likely scratch my head and totally be like "now what?". Ive gained 3 Veteran levels recently. All because Ive been totally like "I wanna get to Veteran 16!". Now its like all drive will be gone. Its not that I want to just have that "Veteran" and then whatever level I am above my name. Its just that now everyone will just be...stuck really.

Exactly my point.

They're instituting a stagnant, horizontal character progression system and placing too much emphasis on background passive increases (the CP constellation nodes) rather than actually giving you something to strive for with your characters.

Another change made to cater to impatient PvP players with little thought to how it will stagnate the rest of the game.

I'm sorry...Veteran levels are in no way something to strive for.

There is absolutely zero difference between a VR rank and a Champion Rank in terms of increasing in level...Only Champion Rank is actually better in terms of giving reward.

You missed the point.

The level plus the added Skill point, possibility of a new Skill ability opening up, and more, all of these are part of the upward mobility I described as the part of attaining a new level.

CP's only bring passive effects (and fractions of a percentage point at a time I might add).

The move is going from feeling like you're actually accomplishing something (Vet Ranks), to a horizontal plateau where nothing really changes from CP to CP. This type of horizontal movement in character development creates stagnation, especially in the PvE side of the game.

You know, the other 3/4 of the game that doesn't include PvP and their impatient "I want my Alts max level NOW!!!" player base.

Horizontal progression is not that bad as you think. It is more like in real life - well, there are a few levels to acquire (like academical grades), but otherwise it is mainly horizontal progression. We can still feel accomplished in real life, can't we?-

But that's why we play video games. So I don't have to compare my games to real life.

In video games, it feels good to be running around as a minor Deity. In real life, not so possible.

Depends on your real life, I am kind of a minor deity for my employees. Even I do not feel like it, but in fact, if I would mess up, they would have to suffer. I take my responsibilities seriously due to that. I do not have to feel superior in a game nor in real life. I might be in some sectors, but in others I don't. People have different talents, there is not really an objective "better".

Edit: what I want to say with it, feeling like a champion, just because levels make you to one, is a bit cheap. That is like Paris Hilton, she feels like the god given gift to the world - but she is born into this level, she has not accomplished it and regardless how much of a minor deity she might feel to be, to me she is nothing like that. She has just inherited wealth and is spending it - anyone can do that, when born into this level.

And like Paris Hilton, there will be nothing to strive for since any Alt's will be "born into" max level.

Argh, you are right, I forgot about that this is account-wide now.

And that's the point I've been trying to make to everyone.

While this might be good for the fraction of the player base who are impatient and want all their Alts at max level with the smallest possible effort, the other 3/4 of the game will hit that stagnation of a horizontal plateau for character development.

It brings out a "what's the point" mentality to doing anything in the PvE game aside from your starting Alliance.

Additional level aren't content in any way. If you don't enjoy dungeons and finished every quest, you're done with PvE. There is no point to vet ranks other than excluding players a long time until they can focus on being truly competent.

Actually, you're wrong.

Levels are best described as "upward mobility". It's something to strive for that is higher than you were before. It makes the journey through the levels as much of an accomplishment as the "destination" end level (i.e. VR16).

This applies even to the "end game" levels which are the Vet Ranks.

With the removal of those and a focus on CP's (which only give you passive, background improvements), it creates a "plateau" of progression. Your character isn't actually going anywhere or growing anymore. The increases to "power" are minimal if noticeable in any way because each CP assigned only gives you a couple of tenths of a percent increase to your abilities.

This creates a stagnated environment where there's little to no point to progressing beyond your home Alliance.

As I've said many times; this change from VR's to CP-only charcter progression only benefits the 1/4 of the game that is PvP, and even then it only benefits the small percentage of the 1/4 who are too impatient and want all of their Alts to be at max level with the smallest effort possible.

No other MMO allows this or has a system in place like this. This is what making sweeping changes to a game based upon the smallest fraction of a player base does to MMO's.

This type of plateau has killed player populations in at least five MMO's I can name off the top of my head, as players get bored because there's nowhere to grow a character after finishing the first third of the game.

Yet every one of those level progressions came with content to enable the XP for said levelling to take place.
No content ..no levelling.
Besides jumping 2 levels per major content...those 2 dings...really ?
All that farming, all the grinding, all the gear, all that gold, all those crafting parts.....obsolete. scrap. usless.

The majority of those skills come from skyshards.
Those skyshards have not become obsoleted over night.
They still exist.

Hammy01

Kwivur wrote: »

I'm curious to see what they do with the "UNDESIRABLE" traits, like well-fitted, sturdy, powered, charged and so on.. I would love to see a real change with these traits that's actually useful.

It would be nice to make these traits "minor traits" and the others "major traits"... Gear could then have both a "minor" and "major" trait. Zos could also add in a few more new traits to spice things up a bit!!

Dagoth_Rac

Enodoc wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

Champ points give you more heath, stamina, and magicka outright plus whatever perks you invest them in.

@tinythinker I've never really looked into this. Does this apply to every single CP, or is it only to CP spent in certain constellations? How much extra does each CP give?

Your first Champion Point spent in any Warrior Star gives you 1% bonus health, your first Champion Point spent in any Thief Star gives you 1% bonus stamina, and your first Champion Point spent in any Mage Star gives you 1% bonus magicka. Subsequent points give you less and less bonus attributes. You seem to get slightly more health (as a percentage) than you do stamina or magicka. The max 167 points in each seems to result in about 18% bonus health and 17.8% bonus magicka and 17.8% bonus stamina.

Note that this CP attribute bonus does not seem to apply to food, which only seems to gain from skill line passives. Not sure if that is by design or a bug.

Zaldan

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys! We know there's a lot of questions about how Veteran Rank removal is going to work, and we will be publishing details on everything in the near future. Remember this article was just a first look; we're not going to leave you high and dry on the details for big changes like this.

getting higher and dryer by the day

Elsonso

Zaldan wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hey guys! We know there's a lot of questions about how Veteran Rank removal is going to work, and we will be publishing details on everything in the near future. Remember this article was just a first look; we're not going to leave you high and dry on the details for big changes like this.

getting higher and dryer by the day

You do realize they said next week, right?

swirve

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Yep! It's happening in the next update, for real.

Soon! My little natch potes.

genjutsu_kami

please please please please do not scale the vet 5 vet 6 ....ect gear up to max level it will nail the coffin shut on this game and it will be impossible to fix, at the moment theres a few sets introduced that shouldn't have been i won't go into them now but I'm pretty sure people know what I'm talking about, shied break and vicious death, I'm not going to go deep about them because theres no point. if you scale the lower vet gear up to max level you will have officially destroyed every last bit of enjoyment the game will have to offer again please do not scale the lower vet level gear, DELTIA GAMING even said this will be a very very bad idea and he's like you ambassador.

please try and implement battle grounds or arenas in the near future.