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Is this the removal of Veteran Ranks?! (DARK BROTHERHOOD NEWS)
-
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
You missed the point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Pretty much.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
They've favored horizontal progression over actually progressing and growing a character for this game.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
thats is correct, champion points were implemented as the complete replacement of vet system ... so lvl 50 will be the max level, then its champion points only after that
Well no offense to anyone or Zenimax but that seems really stupid. So really any kind of real progression of a character is gonna be removed. And what its being replaced with is, well not any kind of progression or leveling. What the heck? O.o How have people been looking forward to the removal of Veteran Ranks when its gonna be replaced with...nothing really.
As things stand now, I've got one VR16, one VR7, two VR6's. I'm at 337 CP right now, so all of my VR characters will be able to run with Rubedite/Ancestor Silk/Ruby Ash equipment the second that patch finishes downloading.
They'll all be "Max level". But then what?
What is there to strive for? Exploring the other Alliances? The Daggerfall Covenant is boring enough to put me to sleep on those insomnia nights. While I generally like the Aldmeri Dominion, they should have named it "The Explore Grahtwood Indefinitely Alliance"...
With the VR levels, I always had something to strive for. If not on my Main Sorcerer (my VR16), then by working on my Templar (my VR7). But there was always something to strive for. That next Vet Rank. That next Tier of equipment to craft.
Now... just like all of those other MMO's that instituted horizontal character improvement instead of upwardly mobile Character progressions via additional levels... I left those other MMO's because horizontal characters are damn boring.
There's nothing to strive for with that model.
And I really hope that boredom doesn't set in with ESO. I really, really like this game...
High five Uriel_Nocturne. Ive taken some gaming breaks now and then so I could have been VT 16 by now but Im at Veteran 6 on my main. But when the next update comes I will most likely scratch my head and totally be like "now what?". Ive gained 3 Veteran levels recently. All because Ive been totally like "I wanna get to Veteran 16!". Now its like all drive will be gone. Its not that I want to just have that "Veteran" and then whatever level I am above my name. Its just that now everyone will just be...stuck really.
They're instituting a stagnant, horizontal character progression system and placing too much emphasis on background passive increases (the CP constellation nodes) rather than actually giving you something to strive for with your characters.
Another change made to cater to impatient PvP players with little thought to how it will stagnate the rest of the game.
I'm sorry...Veteran levels are in no way something to strive for.
There is absolutely zero difference between a VR rank and a Champion Rank in terms of increasing in level...Only Champion Rank is actually better in terms of giving reward.
The level plus the added Skill point, possibility of a new Skill ability opening up, and more, all of these are part of the upward mobility I described as the part of attaining a new level.
CP's only bring passive effects (and fractions of a percentage point at a time I might add).
The move is going from feeling like you're actually accomplishing something (Vet Ranks), to a horizontal plateau where nothing really changes from CP to CP. This type of horizontal movement in character development creates stagnation, especially in the PvE side of the game.
You know, the other 3/4 of the game that doesn't include PvP and their impatient "I want my Alts max level NOW!!!" player base.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!2 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭tinythinker wrote: »
No worries, my writing may not have been as clear as intended.tinythinker wrote: »
Eh, @MissBizz ? I'm saying that it will. That we can give bonuses in an auto-generated system where the LFG tool says "Hmm, we could make 15 groups right not if we had tanks for them" and then put up a notice in the random dungeon finder screen where the reward section offered a bonus for tanks. In other words, that reward for role system would be awful right now because of frauds and randomness of who gets crowns, but with the vote-kick frauds will diminish as legit tanks (or healers, or whatever is in short supply in the meta of the moment) increase. It's NewBlackSmurf who doesn't think these ideas would work well, or so he/she said in a response to my suggestion.tinythinker wrote: »Vote-kick is OK and opens the way for bonuses to needed roles in the random dungeon selector. Giving a bonus to rewards for tanks when they are in short supply, for example, but being able to /kick those who fraudently queue as a tank just to get a group. This can be further balanced and made more positive by adding a commendation/rec system wherein each party member can commend one other group member at the end of a run with a random group. Plenty of time to slip those additional features in before the update goes live on PC, right?
(Oh, and how about getting an extra reward of gold and add in a bonus to raising the undaunted skill line for doing five randoms in a day or something like that?)
I love your ideas @tinythinker but I don't agree that a vote-kick system won't help with fake tanks. If the tank isn't really a tank, do you think it's going to be that hard to have the others in the group agree with you?
Sorry @tinythinker I obviously misread, I thought you were explaining that a vote kick system wouldn't fully help with "fake" tanks. Disregard me! Oops!
I'm not sure how I actually feel about a reward system, I don't know. I guess it probably wouldn't bother me either way (and I'd be on the winning end of the stick since I have mostly tanks and healers... haha)
The reward-for-underserved-role system is meant to encourage people to queue as something other than damage dealer, with vote-kick discouraging frauds. I used tank as an example because it is always the one groups need most in every game that has the trinity system and four-player dungeons. Healers are a close second. Damage dealers are last. With encouragement to *legitimately* play tank, i.e. have some form of effective mitigation and a taunt before you queue, players who are on the fence or looking for something new or who just want to learn a role that can get them completions are encouraged to make that effort. It isn't a silver-bullet to wait times, but every little bit helps.
Same for commendations. Giving people a cookie for doing well, being helpful, showing that they are willing to learn, adapt, etc, makes random queues less intimidating, not to mention people respond well to positive feedback. So, once more, this acts as encouragement to give such content a try, hence more people signing up, hence shorter wait times.
I see one danger with that.
People could use it to filter out new players from experienced.
The..they wont know what they are doing .....dont want them.
I guess with the vote to kick system that probably should be reduced if not eliminated.
Wont stop abuse from 3 elite players looking for a 4th for a speed one.
Nope next...nope next..nope next.Anything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
tinythinker✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭
Nothing in what I suggested would permit what you are talking about, but, I've spent more than enough time clarifying my idea.Rune_Relic wrote: »tinythinker wrote: »
No worries, my writing may not have been as clear as intended.tinythinker wrote: »
Eh, @MissBizz ? I'm saying that it will. That we can give bonuses in an auto-generated system where the LFG tool says "Hmm, we could make 15 groups right not if we had tanks for them" and then put up a notice in the random dungeon finder screen where the reward section offered a bonus for tanks. In other words, that reward for role system would be awful right now because of frauds and randomness of who gets crowns, but with the vote-kick frauds will diminish as legit tanks (or healers, or whatever is in short supply in the meta of the moment) increase. It's NewBlackSmurf who doesn't think these ideas would work well, or so he/she said in a response to my suggestion.tinythinker wrote: »Vote-kick is OK and opens the way for bonuses to needed roles in the random dungeon selector. Giving a bonus to rewards for tanks when they are in short supply, for example, but being able to /kick those who fraudently queue as a tank just to get a group. This can be further balanced and made more positive by adding a commendation/rec system wherein each party member can commend one other group member at the end of a run with a random group. Plenty of time to slip those additional features in before the update goes live on PC, right?
(Oh, and how about getting an extra reward of gold and add in a bonus to raising the undaunted skill line for doing five randoms in a day or something like that?)
I love your ideas @tinythinker but I don't agree that a vote-kick system won't help with fake tanks. If the tank isn't really a tank, do you think it's going to be that hard to have the others in the group agree with you?
Sorry @tinythinker I obviously misread, I thought you were explaining that a vote kick system wouldn't fully help with "fake" tanks. Disregard me! Oops!
I'm not sure how I actually feel about a reward system, I don't know. I guess it probably wouldn't bother me either way (and I'd be on the winning end of the stick since I have mostly tanks and healers... haha)
The reward-for-underserved-role system is meant to encourage people to queue as something other than damage dealer, with vote-kick discouraging frauds. I used tank as an example because it is always the one groups need most in every game that has the trinity system and four-player dungeons. Healers are a close second. Damage dealers are last. With encouragement to *legitimately* play tank, i.e. have some form of effective mitigation and a taunt before you queue, players who are on the fence or looking for something new or who just want to learn a role that can get them completions are encouraged to make that effort. It isn't a silver-bullet to wait times, but every little bit helps.
Same for commendations. Giving people a cookie for doing well, being helpful, showing that they are willing to learn, adapt, etc, makes random queues less intimidating, not to mention people respond well to positive feedback. So, once more, this acts as encouragement to give such content a try, hence more people signing up, hence shorter wait times.
I see one danger with that.
People could use it to filter out new players from experienced.
The..they wont know what they are doing .....dont want them.
I guess with the vote to kick system that probably should be reduced if not eliminated.
Wont stop abuse from 3 elite players looking for a 4th for a speed one.
Nope next...nope next..nope next.
❤Experienced, new, returner?❤ Help keep ESO's community strong ᕙ༼ຈل͜ຈ༽ᕗ -- share what you love about the game, offer constructive feedback, and make friends.ʕ·ᴥ·ʔ
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Who are you in Tamriel (whether it's just your character's attitude & style or a full backstory)? - Share your Character's Story! ◔ ⌣ ◔
(And let us know 🔷What Kind of Roleplayer You Are🔷 - even if that only extends to choosing your race)
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Support Mudcrab Mode for ESO (\/)!_!(\/) - part joke, part serious, all glorious! You butter be ready for this1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
You missed the point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Pretty much.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
They've favored horizontal progression over actually progressing and growing a character for this game.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
thats is correct, champion points were implemented as the complete replacement of vet system ... so lvl 50 will be the max level, then its champion points only after that
Well no offense to anyone or Zenimax but that seems really stupid. So really any kind of real progression of a character is gonna be removed. And what its being replaced with is, well not any kind of progression or leveling. What the heck? O.o How have people been looking forward to the removal of Veteran Ranks when its gonna be replaced with...nothing really.
As things stand now, I've got one VR16, one VR7, two VR6's. I'm at 337 CP right now, so all of my VR characters will be able to run with Rubedite/Ancestor Silk/Ruby Ash equipment the second that patch finishes downloading.
They'll all be "Max level". But then what?
What is there to strive for? Exploring the other Alliances? The Daggerfall Covenant is boring enough to put me to sleep on those insomnia nights. While I generally like the Aldmeri Dominion, they should have named it "The Explore Grahtwood Indefinitely Alliance"...
With the VR levels, I always had something to strive for. If not on my Main Sorcerer (my VR16), then by working on my Templar (my VR7). But there was always something to strive for. That next Vet Rank. That next Tier of equipment to craft.
Now... just like all of those other MMO's that instituted horizontal character improvement instead of upwardly mobile Character progressions via additional levels... I left those other MMO's because horizontal characters are damn boring.
There's nothing to strive for with that model.
And I really hope that boredom doesn't set in with ESO. I really, really like this game...
High five Uriel_Nocturne. Ive taken some gaming breaks now and then so I could have been VT 16 by now but Im at Veteran 6 on my main. But when the next update comes I will most likely scratch my head and totally be like "now what?". Ive gained 3 Veteran levels recently. All because Ive been totally like "I wanna get to Veteran 16!". Now its like all drive will be gone. Its not that I want to just have that "Veteran" and then whatever level I am above my name. Its just that now everyone will just be...stuck really.
They're instituting a stagnant, horizontal character progression system and placing too much emphasis on background passive increases (the CP constellation nodes) rather than actually giving you something to strive for with your characters.
Another change made to cater to impatient PvP players with little thought to how it will stagnate the rest of the game.
I'm sorry...Veteran levels are in no way something to strive for.
There is absolutely zero difference between a VR rank and a Champion Rank in terms of increasing in level...Only Champion Rank is actually better in terms of giving reward.
The level plus the added Skill point, possibility of a new Skill ability opening up, and more, all of these are part of the upward mobility I described as the part of attaining a new level.
CP's only bring passive effects (and fractions of a percentage point at a time I might add).
The move is going from feeling like you're actually accomplishing something (Vet Ranks), to a horizontal plateau where nothing really changes from CP to CP. This type of horizontal movement in character development creates stagnation, especially in the PvE side of the game.
You know, the other 3/4 of the game that doesn't include PvP and their impatient "I want my Alts max level NOW!!!" player base.
Horizontal progression is not that bad as you think. It is more like in real life - well, there are a few levels to acquire (like academical grades), but otherwise it is mainly horizontal progression. We can still feel accomplished in real life, can't we?-2 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
But that's why we play video games. So I don't have to compare my games to real life.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
You missed the point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Pretty much.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
They've favored horizontal progression over actually progressing and growing a character for this game.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
thats is correct, champion points were implemented as the complete replacement of vet system ... so lvl 50 will be the max level, then its champion points only after that
Well no offense to anyone or Zenimax but that seems really stupid. So really any kind of real progression of a character is gonna be removed. And what its being replaced with is, well not any kind of progression or leveling. What the heck? O.o How have people been looking forward to the removal of Veteran Ranks when its gonna be replaced with...nothing really.
As things stand now, I've got one VR16, one VR7, two VR6's. I'm at 337 CP right now, so all of my VR characters will be able to run with Rubedite/Ancestor Silk/Ruby Ash equipment the second that patch finishes downloading.
They'll all be "Max level". But then what?
What is there to strive for? Exploring the other Alliances? The Daggerfall Covenant is boring enough to put me to sleep on those insomnia nights. While I generally like the Aldmeri Dominion, they should have named it "The Explore Grahtwood Indefinitely Alliance"...
With the VR levels, I always had something to strive for. If not on my Main Sorcerer (my VR16), then by working on my Templar (my VR7). But there was always something to strive for. That next Vet Rank. That next Tier of equipment to craft.
Now... just like all of those other MMO's that instituted horizontal character improvement instead of upwardly mobile Character progressions via additional levels... I left those other MMO's because horizontal characters are damn boring.
There's nothing to strive for with that model.
And I really hope that boredom doesn't set in with ESO. I really, really like this game...
High five Uriel_Nocturne. Ive taken some gaming breaks now and then so I could have been VT 16 by now but Im at Veteran 6 on my main. But when the next update comes I will most likely scratch my head and totally be like "now what?". Ive gained 3 Veteran levels recently. All because Ive been totally like "I wanna get to Veteran 16!". Now its like all drive will be gone. Its not that I want to just have that "Veteran" and then whatever level I am above my name. Its just that now everyone will just be...stuck really.
They're instituting a stagnant, horizontal character progression system and placing too much emphasis on background passive increases (the CP constellation nodes) rather than actually giving you something to strive for with your characters.
Another change made to cater to impatient PvP players with little thought to how it will stagnate the rest of the game.
I'm sorry...Veteran levels are in no way something to strive for.
There is absolutely zero difference between a VR rank and a Champion Rank in terms of increasing in level...Only Champion Rank is actually better in terms of giving reward.
The level plus the added Skill point, possibility of a new Skill ability opening up, and more, all of these are part of the upward mobility I described as the part of attaining a new level.
CP's only bring passive effects (and fractions of a percentage point at a time I might add).
The move is going from feeling like you're actually accomplishing something (Vet Ranks), to a horizontal plateau where nothing really changes from CP to CP. This type of horizontal movement in character development creates stagnation, especially in the PvE side of the game.
You know, the other 3/4 of the game that doesn't include PvP and their impatient "I want my Alts max level NOW!!!" player base.
Horizontal progression is not that bad as you think. It is more like in real life - well, there are a few levels to acquire (like academical grades), but otherwise it is mainly horizontal progression. We can still feel accomplished in real life, can't we?-
In video games, it feels good to be running around as a minor Deity. In real life, not so possible.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!2 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
But that's why we play video games. So I don't have to compare my games to real life.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
You missed the point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Pretty much.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
They've favored horizontal progression over actually progressing and growing a character for this game.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
thats is correct, champion points were implemented as the complete replacement of vet system ... so lvl 50 will be the max level, then its champion points only after that
Well no offense to anyone or Zenimax but that seems really stupid. So really any kind of real progression of a character is gonna be removed. And what its being replaced with is, well not any kind of progression or leveling. What the heck? O.o How have people been looking forward to the removal of Veteran Ranks when its gonna be replaced with...nothing really.
As things stand now, I've got one VR16, one VR7, two VR6's. I'm at 337 CP right now, so all of my VR characters will be able to run with Rubedite/Ancestor Silk/Ruby Ash equipment the second that patch finishes downloading.
They'll all be "Max level". But then what?
What is there to strive for? Exploring the other Alliances? The Daggerfall Covenant is boring enough to put me to sleep on those insomnia nights. While I generally like the Aldmeri Dominion, they should have named it "The Explore Grahtwood Indefinitely Alliance"...
With the VR levels, I always had something to strive for. If not on my Main Sorcerer (my VR16), then by working on my Templar (my VR7). But there was always something to strive for. That next Vet Rank. That next Tier of equipment to craft.
Now... just like all of those other MMO's that instituted horizontal character improvement instead of upwardly mobile Character progressions via additional levels... I left those other MMO's because horizontal characters are damn boring.
There's nothing to strive for with that model.
And I really hope that boredom doesn't set in with ESO. I really, really like this game...
High five Uriel_Nocturne. Ive taken some gaming breaks now and then so I could have been VT 16 by now but Im at Veteran 6 on my main. But when the next update comes I will most likely scratch my head and totally be like "now what?". Ive gained 3 Veteran levels recently. All because Ive been totally like "I wanna get to Veteran 16!". Now its like all drive will be gone. Its not that I want to just have that "Veteran" and then whatever level I am above my name. Its just that now everyone will just be...stuck really.
They're instituting a stagnant, horizontal character progression system and placing too much emphasis on background passive increases (the CP constellation nodes) rather than actually giving you something to strive for with your characters.
Another change made to cater to impatient PvP players with little thought to how it will stagnate the rest of the game.
I'm sorry...Veteran levels are in no way something to strive for.
There is absolutely zero difference between a VR rank and a Champion Rank in terms of increasing in level...Only Champion Rank is actually better in terms of giving reward.
The level plus the added Skill point, possibility of a new Skill ability opening up, and more, all of these are part of the upward mobility I described as the part of attaining a new level.
CP's only bring passive effects (and fractions of a percentage point at a time I might add).
The move is going from feeling like you're actually accomplishing something (Vet Ranks), to a horizontal plateau where nothing really changes from CP to CP. This type of horizontal movement in character development creates stagnation, especially in the PvE side of the game.
You know, the other 3/4 of the game that doesn't include PvP and their impatient "I want my Alts max level NOW!!!" player base.
Horizontal progression is not that bad as you think. It is more like in real life - well, there are a few levels to acquire (like academical grades), but otherwise it is mainly horizontal progression. We can still feel accomplished in real life, can't we?-
In video games, it feels good to be running around as a minor Deity. In real life, not so possible.
Depends on your real life, I am kind of a minor deity for my employees. Even I do not feel like it, but in fact, if I would mess up, they would have to suffer. I take my responsibilities seriously due to that. I do not have to feel superior in a game nor in real life. I might be in some sectors, but in others I don't. People have different talents, there is not really an objective "better".
Edit: what I want to say with it, feeling like a champion, just because levels make you to one, is a bit cheap. That is like Paris Hilton, she feels like the god given gift to the world - but she is born into this level, she has not accomplished it and regardless how much of a minor deity she might feel to be, to me she is nothing like that. She has just inherited wealth and is spending it - anyone can do that, when born into this level.Edited by Lysette on 20 April 2016 20:150 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
Just pretend you have 3600 levels + skills and passives to go with.
I am sure you will cope fine.Anything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Yep! It's happening in the next update, for real.
why did you do this to us.. Now other alliances' quests will be useless
So the now "optional content" and "extra XP" you get to "increase your CP" is useless.
Uhu.Anything that can be exploited will be exploited3 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
And like Paris Hilton, there will be nothing to strive for since any Alt's will be "born into" max level.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
But that's why we play video games. So I don't have to compare my games to real life.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
You missed the point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Pretty much.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
They've favored horizontal progression over actually progressing and growing a character for this game.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
thats is correct, champion points were implemented as the complete replacement of vet system ... so lvl 50 will be the max level, then its champion points only after that
Well no offense to anyone or Zenimax but that seems really stupid. So really any kind of real progression of a character is gonna be removed. And what its being replaced with is, well not any kind of progression or leveling. What the heck? O.o How have people been looking forward to the removal of Veteran Ranks when its gonna be replaced with...nothing really.
As things stand now, I've got one VR16, one VR7, two VR6's. I'm at 337 CP right now, so all of my VR characters will be able to run with Rubedite/Ancestor Silk/Ruby Ash equipment the second that patch finishes downloading.
They'll all be "Max level". But then what?
What is there to strive for? Exploring the other Alliances? The Daggerfall Covenant is boring enough to put me to sleep on those insomnia nights. While I generally like the Aldmeri Dominion, they should have named it "The Explore Grahtwood Indefinitely Alliance"...
With the VR levels, I always had something to strive for. If not on my Main Sorcerer (my VR16), then by working on my Templar (my VR7). But there was always something to strive for. That next Vet Rank. That next Tier of equipment to craft.
Now... just like all of those other MMO's that instituted horizontal character improvement instead of upwardly mobile Character progressions via additional levels... I left those other MMO's because horizontal characters are damn boring.
There's nothing to strive for with that model.
And I really hope that boredom doesn't set in with ESO. I really, really like this game...
High five Uriel_Nocturne. Ive taken some gaming breaks now and then so I could have been VT 16 by now but Im at Veteran 6 on my main. But when the next update comes I will most likely scratch my head and totally be like "now what?". Ive gained 3 Veteran levels recently. All because Ive been totally like "I wanna get to Veteran 16!". Now its like all drive will be gone. Its not that I want to just have that "Veteran" and then whatever level I am above my name. Its just that now everyone will just be...stuck really.
They're instituting a stagnant, horizontal character progression system and placing too much emphasis on background passive increases (the CP constellation nodes) rather than actually giving you something to strive for with your characters.
Another change made to cater to impatient PvP players with little thought to how it will stagnate the rest of the game.
I'm sorry...Veteran levels are in no way something to strive for.
There is absolutely zero difference between a VR rank and a Champion Rank in terms of increasing in level...Only Champion Rank is actually better in terms of giving reward.
The level plus the added Skill point, possibility of a new Skill ability opening up, and more, all of these are part of the upward mobility I described as the part of attaining a new level.
CP's only bring passive effects (and fractions of a percentage point at a time I might add).
The move is going from feeling like you're actually accomplishing something (Vet Ranks), to a horizontal plateau where nothing really changes from CP to CP. This type of horizontal movement in character development creates stagnation, especially in the PvE side of the game.
You know, the other 3/4 of the game that doesn't include PvP and their impatient "I want my Alts max level NOW!!!" player base.
Horizontal progression is not that bad as you think. It is more like in real life - well, there are a few levels to acquire (like academical grades), but otherwise it is mainly horizontal progression. We can still feel accomplished in real life, can't we?-
In video games, it feels good to be running around as a minor Deity. In real life, not so possible.
Depends on your real life, I am kind of a minor deity for my employees. Even I do not feel like it, but in fact, if I would mess up, they would have to suffer. I take my responsibilities seriously due to that. I do not have to feel superior in a game nor in real life. I might be in some sectors, but in others I don't. People have different talents, there is not really an objective "better".
Edit: what I want to say with it, feeling like a champion, just because levels make you to one, is a bit cheap. That is like Paris Hilton, she feels like the god given gift to the world - but she is born into this level, she has not accomplished it and regardless how much of a minor deity she might feel to be, to me she is nothing like that. She has just inherited wealth and is spending it - anyone can do that, when born into this level.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
And like Paris Hilton, there will be nothing to strive for since any Alt's will be "born into" max level.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
But that's why we play video games. So I don't have to compare my games to real life.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
You missed the point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Pretty much.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
They've favored horizontal progression over actually progressing and growing a character for this game.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
thats is correct, champion points were implemented as the complete replacement of vet system ... so lvl 50 will be the max level, then its champion points only after that
Well no offense to anyone or Zenimax but that seems really stupid. So really any kind of real progression of a character is gonna be removed. And what its being replaced with is, well not any kind of progression or leveling. What the heck? O.o How have people been looking forward to the removal of Veteran Ranks when its gonna be replaced with...nothing really.
As things stand now, I've got one VR16, one VR7, two VR6's. I'm at 337 CP right now, so all of my VR characters will be able to run with Rubedite/Ancestor Silk/Ruby Ash equipment the second that patch finishes downloading.
They'll all be "Max level". But then what?
What is there to strive for? Exploring the other Alliances? The Daggerfall Covenant is boring enough to put me to sleep on those insomnia nights. While I generally like the Aldmeri Dominion, they should have named it "The Explore Grahtwood Indefinitely Alliance"...
With the VR levels, I always had something to strive for. If not on my Main Sorcerer (my VR16), then by working on my Templar (my VR7). But there was always something to strive for. That next Vet Rank. That next Tier of equipment to craft.
Now... just like all of those other MMO's that instituted horizontal character improvement instead of upwardly mobile Character progressions via additional levels... I left those other MMO's because horizontal characters are damn boring.
There's nothing to strive for with that model.
And I really hope that boredom doesn't set in with ESO. I really, really like this game...
High five Uriel_Nocturne. Ive taken some gaming breaks now and then so I could have been VT 16 by now but Im at Veteran 6 on my main. But when the next update comes I will most likely scratch my head and totally be like "now what?". Ive gained 3 Veteran levels recently. All because Ive been totally like "I wanna get to Veteran 16!". Now its like all drive will be gone. Its not that I want to just have that "Veteran" and then whatever level I am above my name. Its just that now everyone will just be...stuck really.
They're instituting a stagnant, horizontal character progression system and placing too much emphasis on background passive increases (the CP constellation nodes) rather than actually giving you something to strive for with your characters.
Another change made to cater to impatient PvP players with little thought to how it will stagnate the rest of the game.
I'm sorry...Veteran levels are in no way something to strive for.
There is absolutely zero difference between a VR rank and a Champion Rank in terms of increasing in level...Only Champion Rank is actually better in terms of giving reward.
The level plus the added Skill point, possibility of a new Skill ability opening up, and more, all of these are part of the upward mobility I described as the part of attaining a new level.
CP's only bring passive effects (and fractions of a percentage point at a time I might add).
The move is going from feeling like you're actually accomplishing something (Vet Ranks), to a horizontal plateau where nothing really changes from CP to CP. This type of horizontal movement in character development creates stagnation, especially in the PvE side of the game.
You know, the other 3/4 of the game that doesn't include PvP and their impatient "I want my Alts max level NOW!!!" player base.
Horizontal progression is not that bad as you think. It is more like in real life - well, there are a few levels to acquire (like academical grades), but otherwise it is mainly horizontal progression. We can still feel accomplished in real life, can't we?-
In video games, it feels good to be running around as a minor Deity. In real life, not so possible.
Depends on your real life, I am kind of a minor deity for my employees. Even I do not feel like it, but in fact, if I would mess up, they would have to suffer. I take my responsibilities seriously due to that. I do not have to feel superior in a game nor in real life. I might be in some sectors, but in others I don't. People have different talents, there is not really an objective "better".
Edit: what I want to say with it, feeling like a champion, just because levels make you to one, is a bit cheap. That is like Paris Hilton, she feels like the god given gift to the world - but she is born into this level, she has not accomplished it and regardless how much of a minor deity she might feel to be, to me she is nothing like that. She has just inherited wealth and is spending it - anyone can do that, when born into this level.
Argh, you are right, I forgot about that this is account-wide now.
Edit: Now this is really bad, I see your point now. Basically once max CP are reached, there is nothing of any challenge left to play (beside PvP maybe) until a new DLC comes out.Edited by Lysette on 20 April 2016 20:273 -
NewBlacksmurf✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭tinythinker wrote: »Hello @NewBlacksmurf, my reply is a little long but by the end of it I hope to have addressed the issues you raised. I am not trying to convince you to accept or like my ideas, just to clarify them. The very end of this comment may help clear up a big source of confusion between our previous replies.
I'm talking about improvements, which people can subjectively classify as a need or want depending upon their point of view. Whether someone feels that my suggestions count as "wants" or "needs" is not something I am worried about. I would like to have these features so I propose them.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »In complete I'm writing:
-I think the vote system is all that is "needed" in context to this thread.
I don't see which part of what I suggested adds such a burden. The group finder would work the same way with my suggestion in terms of sorting people into groups. There is no additional input by players. If the system detects that there could be more groups made *if* there were more tanks, then it advertises this fact. A player could choose to switch gear or characters, sure, but they don't have to. It's just an ad. If you use the group finder and see that there is frequently a bonus for tanks, maybe you decide to start running as a tank. Maybe you don't. But the group finder itself still does what it is doing right now, matching people into groups based on the role they have selected.Either way they would select the role *before* the group-finder started trying to place them, so again, I don't see how your objection fits. As for the general issue of people bailing on randomly formed groups, I already see players who get in a group and either don't like that it has low level players or they don't like the random dungeon chosen by the program and leave.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »-I'm not saying other changes aren't desired...."need" vs want or desired vary dramatically.
-wait times vary for all of us....but for sure, if you add any system that requires additional input, it delays the party members leaving the group therefore exponentially it does increase the wait time for others already in queue as some players will ring a PUG, exit and then requeue for another soon after if not immediately after.
There is a language barrier here and I honestly don't know what you are trying to say is the problem. My apologies but I'm not sure what your objection is. The commendation system I have suggested has zero to do with who gets in a group. It is a way of rewarding/being nice to other players. In another thread I said that having a high enough number of commendations could be used as a part of a mentoring system, but that is a different topic. [If it is because of the link to my dark anchor/dark fissure thread, please see the end of this reply.]NewBlacksmurf wrote: »-rewarding roles while it will impact those who fit your definition of said roles, it also will further encourage those you complain about becaus now there is a double reward. (Lower wait time and an additional bonus). The problem that causes players to choose the role that you identify as a problem and a commends/rec system will not change this, what happens is you seperate the player base which is an over reaction to the issue you describe.
I'm also not sure what you mean by double rewards or encouraging problems. If a player who can do more than one role with a character decided to switch to their tank set before using a group-finder, as opposed to using the group-finder as a damage dealer, that means that such a player will help three other people form a group faster. So two damage dealers and a healer just had their wait time for a group made shorter. If that player had chosen to enter the group finder as a damage dealer, he and those other damage dealers and the healer would still be waiting for someone else to come along who has chosen to be a tank.
When you have more people choosing roles that are less popular, everyone gets into groups faster. To encourage people to choose those roles, you reward them, which is the basis of my proposal. To discourage them from only pretending to be able to do that role, you use vote-kick. As I've written already, when frauds realize they will just get kicked, the number of people faking a role will go down. At the same time, people who want to tank or to learn to tank (or whatever role is in demand) will be more likely to do so because they will get a bonus. Having more people who are able and willing to do whatever roles are in demand improves the wait times for all players using group-finder.
If I am right, the amount of frauds goes down after a while, and more people enter the group-finder in more roles. The reward system is kept and makes things better for all players. If I am wrong, and months into the reward system there are just endless frauds and no real increase in people legitimately signing up for different roles, the system is scrapped and we are no worse off than we are now.
If you have a good idea I encourage you to start a thread and share it with the forums. I started one for my rec system idea (linked in a previous comment in this thread), and by having a thread for your idea you can more easily link it when the topic comes up or you wish to send it to someone.NewBlacksmurf wrote: »Again...I have ideas that differ from yours and I don't have the answer but specifically being apart of many games like this as well as beta and real time testing and on the back end working with recommend set stems on larger networks like Xbox live.....I can tell you that those systems create more problems rather than resolving the issue you describe.
Two things:NewBlacksmurf wrote: »It's not ideal but it would better be resolved by locking roles to a set group of skills and spells on the bar that once a role is selected, those weapons and skills are locked until the queue hits and the encounter is completed....but there are negatives to that as well but I think it's more logical and negates the need of any rec system
1. There are many ways to be a tank, healer, or dps, so having pre-requisite gear or skills would diminish build diversity. I understand the concept, but the algorithm may end up disallowing builds because they didn't register as typical.
2. The rec/commend system has nothing to do with who gets picked for a group. I've said this before, I will repeat it just to be clear. When I wrote my thread about improving events like dark anchors and fissures, at the end I threw in an idea to up-vote/down-vote players after a dungeon run that would have people get in faster or slow based on reputation, which is probably why you mentioned getting to groups faster or slower.
After thinking about it I didn't like the idea so I started a new thread about commending people in which there was no down-vote. It would just be a way to give positive feedback and encouragement to other players. I did suggest it *could* be linked to a mentoring system, a system I wrote about months ago, but, even then it would have zero effect on any kind of priority for getting into a group. I then went back to the dark anchor/dark fissure thread I had created and edited it to say that we didn't need the up-vote/down-vote mechanic if we had a vote-kick system with commendations.
If the original comment on the dark anchor/dark fissure post is still confusing, I will go back and strikeout the one section to more clearly show that is has been voided out and replaced by something else.
I don't believe there is a language barrier but there is a failure to comprehend ...
You should read my entire comment as a whole and not attempt to break down each comment and respond.
If you and I were talking....you would listen to everything and not make mental notes each time you hear something you want to comment on. That's why it comes off as a language barrier because you're first seeking to respond rather than first seeking to understand.
In your replies....you seperate my "need" comment and reply as your reference is "improvements". You're omitting my very next comment which is specifically about your term "improvements".
I am saying the vote to kick is necessary and not up for debate as a means to resolve the current ability for only a group leader to kick or disband. Here are different reasons why the two are used but as a correction to the current problem, without this, the problem cannot be addressed so it's "needed".
As far as opinions and wants, improvements I'm going on to talk about any ideas that require player interaction or feedback will delay the forming of a group. Specific comment is your idea #2 about commending a player....this requires player input. So whether it's during a run, after or outside of a run, the action requires input. If everyone only does it between runs but only while in queue, it has no impact on queues but everyone is not going to only do it that way and because each platform provides different player interactions, it's not "needed". I'm not saying it has no value and that it won't have a positive outcome somewhere but to be clear it does involve input so it will cause longer wait times unless done in one way at a certain time which isn't ideal cause you can't pull past group members on console unless it's voice chat which goes to the consoles gamertag or psn is and not some ZOS profile.
PC to Xbox one to PS4 ....they all offer a multitude of social features ....
The up vote or any similar of your threads does nothing to discourage someone from choosing healer and or tank or all three. The reason ppl pick these is cause they want the least amount of time in queue for a group and (sad but true) assume others do the same so if they get the role they can't fill, they hope someone else will. If not some leave or wait till they get kicked.
Another observation are those who are grouped but never come to the dungeon. Even when ported they just leave.
If you don't address those choosing roles who can't fulfill them, then you can't offer a reward for most needed roles cause there is no logic behind what's needed and ppl will get more frustrated if they get 2,3,4,5 groups missing roles so they just stop using it and rely on other means. Then PuGs suffer and you start to see even more Grouping Tools don't work threads.
So there ways many different ways to hold each role so out of 10 skill slots and 2 weapon swap possibilities the idea is to base the role off slotted skills that regardless of argument. Only certain skills heal others so that's a healer and it should require 3 or more for a healer.
Only certain skills deal damage so I'd say 3 or more for DPS role.
And for tank....some say taunt but at the very least, some types of shielding or sword and shield line makes perfect sense.
Unfortunately, if you want to remove and obstacle, there will be a much less leniant path than the previous so again....I don't have all the answers but all changes have impacts and that's what I do for a living....I look at businesses, processes, people, performers and I evaluate them and make recommendations to secession makers.
This is just me doing that with very little info cause I'm just a customer.-PC (PTS)/Xbox One: NewBlacksmurf
~<{[50]}>~ looks better than *5010 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
And that's the point I've been trying to make to everyone.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
And like Paris Hilton, there will be nothing to strive for since any Alt's will be "born into" max level.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
But that's why we play video games. So I don't have to compare my games to real life.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
You missed the point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Pretty much.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
They've favored horizontal progression over actually progressing and growing a character for this game.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
thats is correct, champion points were implemented as the complete replacement of vet system ... so lvl 50 will be the max level, then its champion points only after that
Well no offense to anyone or Zenimax but that seems really stupid. So really any kind of real progression of a character is gonna be removed. And what its being replaced with is, well not any kind of progression or leveling. What the heck? O.o How have people been looking forward to the removal of Veteran Ranks when its gonna be replaced with...nothing really.
As things stand now, I've got one VR16, one VR7, two VR6's. I'm at 337 CP right now, so all of my VR characters will be able to run with Rubedite/Ancestor Silk/Ruby Ash equipment the second that patch finishes downloading.
They'll all be "Max level". But then what?
What is there to strive for? Exploring the other Alliances? The Daggerfall Covenant is boring enough to put me to sleep on those insomnia nights. While I generally like the Aldmeri Dominion, they should have named it "The Explore Grahtwood Indefinitely Alliance"...
With the VR levels, I always had something to strive for. If not on my Main Sorcerer (my VR16), then by working on my Templar (my VR7). But there was always something to strive for. That next Vet Rank. That next Tier of equipment to craft.
Now... just like all of those other MMO's that instituted horizontal character improvement instead of upwardly mobile Character progressions via additional levels... I left those other MMO's because horizontal characters are damn boring.
There's nothing to strive for with that model.
And I really hope that boredom doesn't set in with ESO. I really, really like this game...
High five Uriel_Nocturne. Ive taken some gaming breaks now and then so I could have been VT 16 by now but Im at Veteran 6 on my main. But when the next update comes I will most likely scratch my head and totally be like "now what?". Ive gained 3 Veteran levels recently. All because Ive been totally like "I wanna get to Veteran 16!". Now its like all drive will be gone. Its not that I want to just have that "Veteran" and then whatever level I am above my name. Its just that now everyone will just be...stuck really.
They're instituting a stagnant, horizontal character progression system and placing too much emphasis on background passive increases (the CP constellation nodes) rather than actually giving you something to strive for with your characters.
Another change made to cater to impatient PvP players with little thought to how it will stagnate the rest of the game.
I'm sorry...Veteran levels are in no way something to strive for.
There is absolutely zero difference between a VR rank and a Champion Rank in terms of increasing in level...Only Champion Rank is actually better in terms of giving reward.
The level plus the added Skill point, possibility of a new Skill ability opening up, and more, all of these are part of the upward mobility I described as the part of attaining a new level.
CP's only bring passive effects (and fractions of a percentage point at a time I might add).
The move is going from feeling like you're actually accomplishing something (Vet Ranks), to a horizontal plateau where nothing really changes from CP to CP. This type of horizontal movement in character development creates stagnation, especially in the PvE side of the game.
You know, the other 3/4 of the game that doesn't include PvP and their impatient "I want my Alts max level NOW!!!" player base.
Horizontal progression is not that bad as you think. It is more like in real life - well, there are a few levels to acquire (like academical grades), but otherwise it is mainly horizontal progression. We can still feel accomplished in real life, can't we?-
In video games, it feels good to be running around as a minor Deity. In real life, not so possible.
Depends on your real life, I am kind of a minor deity for my employees. Even I do not feel like it, but in fact, if I would mess up, they would have to suffer. I take my responsibilities seriously due to that. I do not have to feel superior in a game nor in real life. I might be in some sectors, but in others I don't. People have different talents, there is not really an objective "better".
Edit: what I want to say with it, feeling like a champion, just because levels make you to one, is a bit cheap. That is like Paris Hilton, she feels like the god given gift to the world - but she is born into this level, she has not accomplished it and regardless how much of a minor deity she might feel to be, to me she is nothing like that. She has just inherited wealth and is spending it - anyone can do that, when born into this level.
Argh, you are right, I forgot about that this is account-wide now.
While this might be good for the fraction of the player base who are impatient and want all their Alts at max level with the smallest possible effort, the other 3/4 of the game will hit that stagnation of a horizontal plateau for character development.
It brings out a "what's the point" mentality to doing anything in the PvE game aside from your starting Alliance.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!3 -
Gidorick✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Another PASSIVE guild skill line. Greaaaat.What ESO really needs is an Auction Horse.
That's right... Horse.
Click HERE to discuss.
Want more crazy ideas? Check out my Concept Repository!0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
And that's the point I've been trying to make to everyone.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
And like Paris Hilton, there will be nothing to strive for since any Alt's will be "born into" max level.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
But that's why we play video games. So I don't have to compare my games to real life.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
You missed the point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Pretty much.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
They've favored horizontal progression over actually progressing and growing a character for this game.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
thats is correct, champion points were implemented as the complete replacement of vet system ... so lvl 50 will be the max level, then its champion points only after that
Well no offense to anyone or Zenimax but that seems really stupid. So really any kind of real progression of a character is gonna be removed. And what its being replaced with is, well not any kind of progression or leveling. What the heck? O.o How have people been looking forward to the removal of Veteran Ranks when its gonna be replaced with...nothing really.
As things stand now, I've got one VR16, one VR7, two VR6's. I'm at 337 CP right now, so all of my VR characters will be able to run with Rubedite/Ancestor Silk/Ruby Ash equipment the second that patch finishes downloading.
They'll all be "Max level". But then what?
What is there to strive for? Exploring the other Alliances? The Daggerfall Covenant is boring enough to put me to sleep on those insomnia nights. While I generally like the Aldmeri Dominion, they should have named it "The Explore Grahtwood Indefinitely Alliance"...
With the VR levels, I always had something to strive for. If not on my Main Sorcerer (my VR16), then by working on my Templar (my VR7). But there was always something to strive for. That next Vet Rank. That next Tier of equipment to craft.
Now... just like all of those other MMO's that instituted horizontal character improvement instead of upwardly mobile Character progressions via additional levels... I left those other MMO's because horizontal characters are damn boring.
There's nothing to strive for with that model.
And I really hope that boredom doesn't set in with ESO. I really, really like this game...
High five Uriel_Nocturne. Ive taken some gaming breaks now and then so I could have been VT 16 by now but Im at Veteran 6 on my main. But when the next update comes I will most likely scratch my head and totally be like "now what?". Ive gained 3 Veteran levels recently. All because Ive been totally like "I wanna get to Veteran 16!". Now its like all drive will be gone. Its not that I want to just have that "Veteran" and then whatever level I am above my name. Its just that now everyone will just be...stuck really.
They're instituting a stagnant, horizontal character progression system and placing too much emphasis on background passive increases (the CP constellation nodes) rather than actually giving you something to strive for with your characters.
Another change made to cater to impatient PvP players with little thought to how it will stagnate the rest of the game.
I'm sorry...Veteran levels are in no way something to strive for.
There is absolutely zero difference between a VR rank and a Champion Rank in terms of increasing in level...Only Champion Rank is actually better in terms of giving reward.
The level plus the added Skill point, possibility of a new Skill ability opening up, and more, all of these are part of the upward mobility I described as the part of attaining a new level.
CP's only bring passive effects (and fractions of a percentage point at a time I might add).
The move is going from feeling like you're actually accomplishing something (Vet Ranks), to a horizontal plateau where nothing really changes from CP to CP. This type of horizontal movement in character development creates stagnation, especially in the PvE side of the game.
You know, the other 3/4 of the game that doesn't include PvP and their impatient "I want my Alts max level NOW!!!" player base.
Horizontal progression is not that bad as you think. It is more like in real life - well, there are a few levels to acquire (like academical grades), but otherwise it is mainly horizontal progression. We can still feel accomplished in real life, can't we?-
In video games, it feels good to be running around as a minor Deity. In real life, not so possible.
Depends on your real life, I am kind of a minor deity for my employees. Even I do not feel like it, but in fact, if I would mess up, they would have to suffer. I take my responsibilities seriously due to that. I do not have to feel superior in a game nor in real life. I might be in some sectors, but in others I don't. People have different talents, there is not really an objective "better".
Edit: what I want to say with it, feeling like a champion, just because levels make you to one, is a bit cheap. That is like Paris Hilton, she feels like the god given gift to the world - but she is born into this level, she has not accomplished it and regardless how much of a minor deity she might feel to be, to me she is nothing like that. She has just inherited wealth and is spending it - anyone can do that, when born into this level.
Argh, you are right, I forgot about that this is account-wide now.
While this might be good for the fraction of the player base who are impatient and want all their Alts at max level with the smallest possible effort, the other 3/4 of the game will hit that stagnation of a horizontal plateau for character development.
It brings out a "what's the point" mentality to doing anything in the PvE game aside from your starting Alliance.
Yes, it came to mind once you said this with Paris Hilton and I thought about what if you have 501 CP - any new alt would just rush up to level 50 because he is overpowered everywhere and once he is there - there is nothing more to gain. Terrible.1 -
Rune_Relic✭✭✭✭✭
✭tinythinker wrote: »
Nothing in what I suggested would permit what you are talking about, but, I've spent more than enough time clarifying my idea.Rune_Relic wrote: »tinythinker wrote: »
No worries, my writing may not have been as clear as intended.tinythinker wrote: »
Eh, @MissBizz ? I'm saying that it will. That we can give bonuses in an auto-generated system where the LFG tool says "Hmm, we could make 15 groups right not if we had tanks for them" and then put up a notice in the random dungeon finder screen where the reward section offered a bonus for tanks. In other words, that reward for role system would be awful right now because of frauds and randomness of who gets crowns, but with the vote-kick frauds will diminish as legit tanks (or healers, or whatever is in short supply in the meta of the moment) increase. It's NewBlackSmurf who doesn't think these ideas would work well, or so he/she said in a response to my suggestion.tinythinker wrote: »Vote-kick is OK and opens the way for bonuses to needed roles in the random dungeon selector. Giving a bonus to rewards for tanks when they are in short supply, for example, but being able to /kick those who fraudently queue as a tank just to get a group. This can be further balanced and made more positive by adding a commendation/rec system wherein each party member can commend one other group member at the end of a run with a random group. Plenty of time to slip those additional features in before the update goes live on PC, right?
(Oh, and how about getting an extra reward of gold and add in a bonus to raising the undaunted skill line for doing five randoms in a day or something like that?)
I love your ideas @tinythinker but I don't agree that a vote-kick system won't help with fake tanks. If the tank isn't really a tank, do you think it's going to be that hard to have the others in the group agree with you?
Sorry @tinythinker I obviously misread, I thought you were explaining that a vote kick system wouldn't fully help with "fake" tanks. Disregard me! Oops!
I'm not sure how I actually feel about a reward system, I don't know. I guess it probably wouldn't bother me either way (and I'd be on the winning end of the stick since I have mostly tanks and healers... haha)
The reward-for-underserved-role system is meant to encourage people to queue as something other than damage dealer, with vote-kick discouraging frauds. I used tank as an example because it is always the one groups need most in every game that has the trinity system and four-player dungeons. Healers are a close second. Damage dealers are last. With encouragement to *legitimately* play tank, i.e. have some form of effective mitigation and a taunt before you queue, players who are on the fence or looking for something new or who just want to learn a role that can get them completions are encouraged to make that effort. It isn't a silver-bullet to wait times, but every little bit helps.
Same for commendations. Giving people a cookie for doing well, being helpful, showing that they are willing to learn, adapt, etc, makes random queues less intimidating, not to mention people respond well to positive feedback. So, once more, this acts as encouragement to give such content a try, hence more people signing up, hence shorter wait times.
I see one danger with that.
People could use it to filter out new players from experienced.
The..they wont know what they are doing .....dont want them.
I guess with the vote to kick system that probably should be reduced if not eliminated.
Wont stop abuse from 3 elite players looking for a 4th for a speed one.
Nope next...nope next..nope next.
Number of votes ?Anything that can be exploited will be exploited0 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭
Exactly.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
And that's the point I've been trying to make to everyone.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
And like Paris Hilton, there will be nothing to strive for since any Alt's will be "born into" max level.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
But that's why we play video games. So I don't have to compare my games to real life.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
You missed the point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Pretty much.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
They've favored horizontal progression over actually progressing and growing a character for this game.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
thats is correct, champion points were implemented as the complete replacement of vet system ... so lvl 50 will be the max level, then its champion points only after that
Well no offense to anyone or Zenimax but that seems really stupid. So really any kind of real progression of a character is gonna be removed. And what its being replaced with is, well not any kind of progression or leveling. What the heck? O.o How have people been looking forward to the removal of Veteran Ranks when its gonna be replaced with...nothing really.
As things stand now, I've got one VR16, one VR7, two VR6's. I'm at 337 CP right now, so all of my VR characters will be able to run with Rubedite/Ancestor Silk/Ruby Ash equipment the second that patch finishes downloading.
They'll all be "Max level". But then what?
What is there to strive for? Exploring the other Alliances? The Daggerfall Covenant is boring enough to put me to sleep on those insomnia nights. While I generally like the Aldmeri Dominion, they should have named it "The Explore Grahtwood Indefinitely Alliance"...
With the VR levels, I always had something to strive for. If not on my Main Sorcerer (my VR16), then by working on my Templar (my VR7). But there was always something to strive for. That next Vet Rank. That next Tier of equipment to craft.
Now... just like all of those other MMO's that instituted horizontal character improvement instead of upwardly mobile Character progressions via additional levels... I left those other MMO's because horizontal characters are damn boring.
There's nothing to strive for with that model.
And I really hope that boredom doesn't set in with ESO. I really, really like this game...
High five Uriel_Nocturne. Ive taken some gaming breaks now and then so I could have been VT 16 by now but Im at Veteran 6 on my main. But when the next update comes I will most likely scratch my head and totally be like "now what?". Ive gained 3 Veteran levels recently. All because Ive been totally like "I wanna get to Veteran 16!". Now its like all drive will be gone. Its not that I want to just have that "Veteran" and then whatever level I am above my name. Its just that now everyone will just be...stuck really.
They're instituting a stagnant, horizontal character progression system and placing too much emphasis on background passive increases (the CP constellation nodes) rather than actually giving you something to strive for with your characters.
Another change made to cater to impatient PvP players with little thought to how it will stagnate the rest of the game.
I'm sorry...Veteran levels are in no way something to strive for.
There is absolutely zero difference between a VR rank and a Champion Rank in terms of increasing in level...Only Champion Rank is actually better in terms of giving reward.
The level plus the added Skill point, possibility of a new Skill ability opening up, and more, all of these are part of the upward mobility I described as the part of attaining a new level.
CP's only bring passive effects (and fractions of a percentage point at a time I might add).
The move is going from feeling like you're actually accomplishing something (Vet Ranks), to a horizontal plateau where nothing really changes from CP to CP. This type of horizontal movement in character development creates stagnation, especially in the PvE side of the game.
You know, the other 3/4 of the game that doesn't include PvP and their impatient "I want my Alts max level NOW!!!" player base.
Horizontal progression is not that bad as you think. It is more like in real life - well, there are a few levels to acquire (like academical grades), but otherwise it is mainly horizontal progression. We can still feel accomplished in real life, can't we?-
In video games, it feels good to be running around as a minor Deity. In real life, not so possible.
Depends on your real life, I am kind of a minor deity for my employees. Even I do not feel like it, but in fact, if I would mess up, they would have to suffer. I take my responsibilities seriously due to that. I do not have to feel superior in a game nor in real life. I might be in some sectors, but in others I don't. People have different talents, there is not really an objective "better".
Edit: what I want to say with it, feeling like a champion, just because levels make you to one, is a bit cheap. That is like Paris Hilton, she feels like the god given gift to the world - but she is born into this level, she has not accomplished it and regardless how much of a minor deity she might feel to be, to me she is nothing like that. She has just inherited wealth and is spending it - anyone can do that, when born into this level.
Argh, you are right, I forgot about that this is account-wide now.
While this might be good for the fraction of the player base who are impatient and want all their Alts at max level with the smallest possible effort, the other 3/4 of the game will hit that stagnation of a horizontal plateau for character development.
It brings out a "what's the point" mentality to doing anything in the PvE game aside from your starting Alliance.
Yes, it came to mind once you said this with Paris Hilton and I thought about what if you have 501 CP - any new alt would just rush up to level 50 because he is overpowered everywhere and once he is there - there is nothing more to gain. Terrible.
Already, in my signature you can see that I have a lvl28 Templar. I'm at 337 CP's right now due to my variety of VR characters.
Due to the CP's, she's just blowing through content, and she's only in the Pact's second area Deshaan. At this rate, she'll hit VR1 before she finishes The Rift, and definitely before she gets to Coldharbor.
So, what's the point to even setting foot in the other Alliances after this change hits?
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!0 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Is the cp max being increased with the Dark Brotherhood DLC? I didn't see it mentioned in the announcement.0 -
Nyx2✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
And that's the point I've been trying to make to everyone.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
And like Paris Hilton, there will be nothing to strive for since any Alt's will be "born into" max level.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
But that's why we play video games. So I don't have to compare my games to real life.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
You missed the point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Pretty much.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
They've favored horizontal progression over actually progressing and growing a character for this game.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
thats is correct, champion points were implemented as the complete replacement of vet system ... so lvl 50 will be the max level, then its champion points only after that
Well no offense to anyone or Zenimax but that seems really stupid. So really any kind of real progression of a character is gonna be removed. And what its being replaced with is, well not any kind of progression or leveling. What the heck? O.o How have people been looking forward to the removal of Veteran Ranks when its gonna be replaced with...nothing really.
As things stand now, I've got one VR16, one VR7, two VR6's. I'm at 337 CP right now, so all of my VR characters will be able to run with Rubedite/Ancestor Silk/Ruby Ash equipment the second that patch finishes downloading.
They'll all be "Max level". But then what?
What is there to strive for? Exploring the other Alliances? The Daggerfall Covenant is boring enough to put me to sleep on those insomnia nights. While I generally like the Aldmeri Dominion, they should have named it "The Explore Grahtwood Indefinitely Alliance"...
With the VR levels, I always had something to strive for. If not on my Main Sorcerer (my VR16), then by working on my Templar (my VR7). But there was always something to strive for. That next Vet Rank. That next Tier of equipment to craft.
Now... just like all of those other MMO's that instituted horizontal character improvement instead of upwardly mobile Character progressions via additional levels... I left those other MMO's because horizontal characters are damn boring.
There's nothing to strive for with that model.
And I really hope that boredom doesn't set in with ESO. I really, really like this game...
High five Uriel_Nocturne. Ive taken some gaming breaks now and then so I could have been VT 16 by now but Im at Veteran 6 on my main. But when the next update comes I will most likely scratch my head and totally be like "now what?". Ive gained 3 Veteran levels recently. All because Ive been totally like "I wanna get to Veteran 16!". Now its like all drive will be gone. Its not that I want to just have that "Veteran" and then whatever level I am above my name. Its just that now everyone will just be...stuck really.
They're instituting a stagnant, horizontal character progression system and placing too much emphasis on background passive increases (the CP constellation nodes) rather than actually giving you something to strive for with your characters.
Another change made to cater to impatient PvP players with little thought to how it will stagnate the rest of the game.
I'm sorry...Veteran levels are in no way something to strive for.
There is absolutely zero difference between a VR rank and a Champion Rank in terms of increasing in level...Only Champion Rank is actually better in terms of giving reward.
The level plus the added Skill point, possibility of a new Skill ability opening up, and more, all of these are part of the upward mobility I described as the part of attaining a new level.
CP's only bring passive effects (and fractions of a percentage point at a time I might add).
The move is going from feeling like you're actually accomplishing something (Vet Ranks), to a horizontal plateau where nothing really changes from CP to CP. This type of horizontal movement in character development creates stagnation, especially in the PvE side of the game.
You know, the other 3/4 of the game that doesn't include PvP and their impatient "I want my Alts max level NOW!!!" player base.
Horizontal progression is not that bad as you think. It is more like in real life - well, there are a few levels to acquire (like academical grades), but otherwise it is mainly horizontal progression. We can still feel accomplished in real life, can't we?-
In video games, it feels good to be running around as a minor Deity. In real life, not so possible.
Depends on your real life, I am kind of a minor deity for my employees. Even I do not feel like it, but in fact, if I would mess up, they would have to suffer. I take my responsibilities seriously due to that. I do not have to feel superior in a game nor in real life. I might be in some sectors, but in others I don't. People have different talents, there is not really an objective "better".
Edit: what I want to say with it, feeling like a champion, just because levels make you to one, is a bit cheap. That is like Paris Hilton, she feels like the god given gift to the world - but she is born into this level, she has not accomplished it and regardless how much of a minor deity she might feel to be, to me she is nothing like that. She has just inherited wealth and is spending it - anyone can do that, when born into this level.
Argh, you are right, I forgot about that this is account-wide now.
While this might be good for the fraction of the player base who are impatient and want all their Alts at max level with the smallest possible effort, the other 3/4 of the game will hit that stagnation of a horizontal plateau for character development.
It brings out a "what's the point" mentality to doing anything in the PvE game aside from your starting Alliance.
Additional level aren't content in any way. If you don't enjoy dungeons and finished every quest, you're done with PvE. There is no point to vet ranks other than excluding players a long time until they can focus on being truly competent.1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
And that's the point I've been trying to make to everyone.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
And like Paris Hilton, there will be nothing to strive for since any Alt's will be "born into" max level.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
But that's why we play video games. So I don't have to compare my games to real life.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
You missed the point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Pretty much.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
They've favored horizontal progression over actually progressing and growing a character for this game.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
thats is correct, champion points were implemented as the complete replacement of vet system ... so lvl 50 will be the max level, then its champion points only after that
Well no offense to anyone or Zenimax but that seems really stupid. So really any kind of real progression of a character is gonna be removed. And what its being replaced with is, well not any kind of progression or leveling. What the heck? O.o How have people been looking forward to the removal of Veteran Ranks when its gonna be replaced with...nothing really.
As things stand now, I've got one VR16, one VR7, two VR6's. I'm at 337 CP right now, so all of my VR characters will be able to run with Rubedite/Ancestor Silk/Ruby Ash equipment the second that patch finishes downloading.
They'll all be "Max level". But then what?
What is there to strive for? Exploring the other Alliances? The Daggerfall Covenant is boring enough to put me to sleep on those insomnia nights. While I generally like the Aldmeri Dominion, they should have named it "The Explore Grahtwood Indefinitely Alliance"...
With the VR levels, I always had something to strive for. If not on my Main Sorcerer (my VR16), then by working on my Templar (my VR7). But there was always something to strive for. That next Vet Rank. That next Tier of equipment to craft.
Now... just like all of those other MMO's that instituted horizontal character improvement instead of upwardly mobile Character progressions via additional levels... I left those other MMO's because horizontal characters are damn boring.
There's nothing to strive for with that model.
And I really hope that boredom doesn't set in with ESO. I really, really like this game...
High five Uriel_Nocturne. Ive taken some gaming breaks now and then so I could have been VT 16 by now but Im at Veteran 6 on my main. But when the next update comes I will most likely scratch my head and totally be like "now what?". Ive gained 3 Veteran levels recently. All because Ive been totally like "I wanna get to Veteran 16!". Now its like all drive will be gone. Its not that I want to just have that "Veteran" and then whatever level I am above my name. Its just that now everyone will just be...stuck really.
They're instituting a stagnant, horizontal character progression system and placing too much emphasis on background passive increases (the CP constellation nodes) rather than actually giving you something to strive for with your characters.
Another change made to cater to impatient PvP players with little thought to how it will stagnate the rest of the game.
I'm sorry...Veteran levels are in no way something to strive for.
There is absolutely zero difference between a VR rank and a Champion Rank in terms of increasing in level...Only Champion Rank is actually better in terms of giving reward.
The level plus the added Skill point, possibility of a new Skill ability opening up, and more, all of these are part of the upward mobility I described as the part of attaining a new level.
CP's only bring passive effects (and fractions of a percentage point at a time I might add).
The move is going from feeling like you're actually accomplishing something (Vet Ranks), to a horizontal plateau where nothing really changes from CP to CP. This type of horizontal movement in character development creates stagnation, especially in the PvE side of the game.
You know, the other 3/4 of the game that doesn't include PvP and their impatient "I want my Alts max level NOW!!!" player base.
Horizontal progression is not that bad as you think. It is more like in real life - well, there are a few levels to acquire (like academical grades), but otherwise it is mainly horizontal progression. We can still feel accomplished in real life, can't we?-
In video games, it feels good to be running around as a minor Deity. In real life, not so possible.
Depends on your real life, I am kind of a minor deity for my employees. Even I do not feel like it, but in fact, if I would mess up, they would have to suffer. I take my responsibilities seriously due to that. I do not have to feel superior in a game nor in real life. I might be in some sectors, but in others I don't. People have different talents, there is not really an objective "better".
Edit: what I want to say with it, feeling like a champion, just because levels make you to one, is a bit cheap. That is like Paris Hilton, she feels like the god given gift to the world - but she is born into this level, she has not accomplished it and regardless how much of a minor deity she might feel to be, to me she is nothing like that. She has just inherited wealth and is spending it - anyone can do that, when born into this level.
Argh, you are right, I forgot about that this is account-wide now.
While this might be good for the fraction of the player base who are impatient and want all their Alts at max level with the smallest possible effort, the other 3/4 of the game will hit that stagnation of a horizontal plateau for character development.
It brings out a "what's the point" mentality to doing anything in the PvE game aside from your starting Alliance.
Yes, it came to mind once you said this with Paris Hilton and I thought about what if you have 501 CP - any new alt would just rush up to level 50 because he is overpowered everywhere and once he is there - there is nothing more to gain. Terrible.
Already, in my signature you can see that I have a lvl28 Templar. I'm at 337 CP's right now due to my variety of VR characters.
Due to the CP's, she's just blowing through content, and she's only in the Pact's second area Deshaan. At this rate, she'll hit VR1 before she finishes The Rift, and definitely before she gets to Coldharbor.
So, what's the point to even setting foot in the other Alliances after this change hits?
one thing I could see is to focus on hybrid builds, which counters this "being overpowered" and see how this will go.3 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
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Actually, you're wrong.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
And that's the point I've been trying to make to everyone.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
And like Paris Hilton, there will be nothing to strive for since any Alt's will be "born into" max level.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
But that's why we play video games. So I don't have to compare my games to real life.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
You missed the point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Pretty much.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
They've favored horizontal progression over actually progressing and growing a character for this game.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
thats is correct, champion points were implemented as the complete replacement of vet system ... so lvl 50 will be the max level, then its champion points only after that
Well no offense to anyone or Zenimax but that seems really stupid. So really any kind of real progression of a character is gonna be removed. And what its being replaced with is, well not any kind of progression or leveling. What the heck? O.o How have people been looking forward to the removal of Veteran Ranks when its gonna be replaced with...nothing really.
As things stand now, I've got one VR16, one VR7, two VR6's. I'm at 337 CP right now, so all of my VR characters will be able to run with Rubedite/Ancestor Silk/Ruby Ash equipment the second that patch finishes downloading.
They'll all be "Max level". But then what?
What is there to strive for? Exploring the other Alliances? The Daggerfall Covenant is boring enough to put me to sleep on those insomnia nights. While I generally like the Aldmeri Dominion, they should have named it "The Explore Grahtwood Indefinitely Alliance"...
With the VR levels, I always had something to strive for. If not on my Main Sorcerer (my VR16), then by working on my Templar (my VR7). But there was always something to strive for. That next Vet Rank. That next Tier of equipment to craft.
Now... just like all of those other MMO's that instituted horizontal character improvement instead of upwardly mobile Character progressions via additional levels... I left those other MMO's because horizontal characters are damn boring.
There's nothing to strive for with that model.
And I really hope that boredom doesn't set in with ESO. I really, really like this game...
High five Uriel_Nocturne. Ive taken some gaming breaks now and then so I could have been VT 16 by now but Im at Veteran 6 on my main. But when the next update comes I will most likely scratch my head and totally be like "now what?". Ive gained 3 Veteran levels recently. All because Ive been totally like "I wanna get to Veteran 16!". Now its like all drive will be gone. Its not that I want to just have that "Veteran" and then whatever level I am above my name. Its just that now everyone will just be...stuck really.
They're instituting a stagnant, horizontal character progression system and placing too much emphasis on background passive increases (the CP constellation nodes) rather than actually giving you something to strive for with your characters.
Another change made to cater to impatient PvP players with little thought to how it will stagnate the rest of the game.
I'm sorry...Veteran levels are in no way something to strive for.
There is absolutely zero difference between a VR rank and a Champion Rank in terms of increasing in level...Only Champion Rank is actually better in terms of giving reward.
The level plus the added Skill point, possibility of a new Skill ability opening up, and more, all of these are part of the upward mobility I described as the part of attaining a new level.
CP's only bring passive effects (and fractions of a percentage point at a time I might add).
The move is going from feeling like you're actually accomplishing something (Vet Ranks), to a horizontal plateau where nothing really changes from CP to CP. This type of horizontal movement in character development creates stagnation, especially in the PvE side of the game.
You know, the other 3/4 of the game that doesn't include PvP and their impatient "I want my Alts max level NOW!!!" player base.
Horizontal progression is not that bad as you think. It is more like in real life - well, there are a few levels to acquire (like academical grades), but otherwise it is mainly horizontal progression. We can still feel accomplished in real life, can't we?-
In video games, it feels good to be running around as a minor Deity. In real life, not so possible.
Depends on your real life, I am kind of a minor deity for my employees. Even I do not feel like it, but in fact, if I would mess up, they would have to suffer. I take my responsibilities seriously due to that. I do not have to feel superior in a game nor in real life. I might be in some sectors, but in others I don't. People have different talents, there is not really an objective "better".
Edit: what I want to say with it, feeling like a champion, just because levels make you to one, is a bit cheap. That is like Paris Hilton, she feels like the god given gift to the world - but she is born into this level, she has not accomplished it and regardless how much of a minor deity she might feel to be, to me she is nothing like that. She has just inherited wealth and is spending it - anyone can do that, when born into this level.
Argh, you are right, I forgot about that this is account-wide now.
While this might be good for the fraction of the player base who are impatient and want all their Alts at max level with the smallest possible effort, the other 3/4 of the game will hit that stagnation of a horizontal plateau for character development.
It brings out a "what's the point" mentality to doing anything in the PvE game aside from your starting Alliance.
Additional level aren't content in any way. If you don't enjoy dungeons and finished every quest, you're done with PvE. There is no point to vet ranks other than excluding players a long time until they can focus on being truly competent.
Levels are best described as "upward mobility". It's something to strive for that is higher than you were before. It makes the journey through the levels as much of an accomplishment as the "destination" end level (i.e. VR16).
This applies even to the "end game" levels which are the Vet Ranks.
With the removal of those and a focus on CP's (which only give you passive, background improvements), it creates a "plateau" of progression. Your character isn't actually going anywhere or growing anymore. The increases to "power" are minimal if noticeable in any way because each CP assigned only gives you a couple of tenths of a percent increase to your abilities.
This creates a stagnated environment where there's little to no point to progressing beyond your home Alliance.
As I've said many times; this change from VR's to CP-only charcter progression only benefits the 1/4 of the game that is PvP, and even then it only benefits the small percentage of the 1/4 who are too impatient and want all of their Alts to be at max level with the smallest effort possible.
No other MMO allows this or has a system in place like this. This is what making sweeping changes to a game based upon the smallest fraction of a player base does to MMO's.
This type of plateau has killed player populations in at least five MMO's I can name off the top of my head, as players get bored because there's nowhere to grow a character after finishing the first third of the game.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!2 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
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I've been saying this since they first announced the CP system. It would have been a MUCH smarter idea to offer max level templates in the crown store. Then people who can't be bothered to level an alt could just pony up and leave the game well enough alone.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »As I've said many times; this change from VR's to CP-only charcter progression only benefits the 1/4 of the game that is PvP, and even then it only benefits the small percentage of the 1/4 who are too impatient and want all of their Alts to be at max level with the smallest effort possible.
No other MMO allows this or has a system in place like this. This is what making sweeping changes to a game based upon the smallest fraction of a player base does to MMO's.
This type of plateau has killed player populations in at least five MMO's I can name off the top of my head, as players get bored because there's nowhere to grow a character after finishing the first third of the game.
What we're getting is a 3600 level system that isn't purely horizontal, but isn't purely vertical either. You can't argue with the fact that someone with 300+ CP is way more powerful than someone with none, but at a certain point the return becomes insignificant. In addition, the game's meta rewards sticking all or most of your CP into less than a handful of constellations for a given build, by going hybrid you'll be gimping your character. Finally, the CP cap and catch-up mechanic means if you reach the cap you might as well take a break in the game and come back if and when they increase it.2 -
Uriel_Nocturne✭✭✭✭✭
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I can agree completely. Well said.
I've been saying this since they first announced the CP system. It would have been a MUCH smarter idea to offer max level templates in the crown store. Then people who can't be bothered to level an alt could just pony up and leave the game well enough alone.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »As I've said many times; this change from VR's to CP-only charcter progression only benefits the 1/4 of the game that is PvP, and even then it only benefits the small percentage of the 1/4 who are too impatient and want all of their Alts to be at max level with the smallest effort possible.
No other MMO allows this or has a system in place like this. This is what making sweeping changes to a game based upon the smallest fraction of a player base does to MMO's.
This type of plateau has killed player populations in at least five MMO's I can name off the top of my head, as players get bored because there's nowhere to grow a character after finishing the first third of the game.
What we're getting is a 3600 level system that isn't purely horizontal, but isn't purely vertical either. You can't argue with the fact that someone with 300+ CP is way more powerful than someone with none, but at a certain point the return becomes insignificant. In addition, the game's meta rewards sticking all or most of your CP into less than a handful of constellations for a given build, by going hybrid you'll be gimping your character. Finally, the CP cap and catch-up mechanic means if you reach the cap you might as well take a break in the game and come back if and when they increase it.
twitch.tv/vampire_nox
PAWS (Positively Against Wrip-off Stuff) - Say no to Crown Crates!0 -
Magdalina✭✭✭✭✭
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I don't think you understand what selfish means, you're using it in a very contradicting way to your argument, when you use that word against me, don't follow your following sentence with something that benefits your playing style only.
Where did I say remove it, I don't believe I said that, what's with the odd claim like that. I called it useless which it is, and ZOS noticed a lot of people had said that and so you have this;
... because its a useless trait other than "low level" lol I mean you answered that yourself
Sounds nice. Hope it's a bit longer than the Thieves Guild. Finished that in a week - save for the trial - and haven't felt compelled to go back there.DARK BROTHERHOOD DLC GAME PACK FEATURES & CONTENT
Join the Dark Brotherhood and become an assassin for hire
Visit the Gold Coast, available to characters of all levels, where you can explore Anvil and Kvatch for the first time since The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
Hours of exciting story content and quests that will have you revisiting your favorite areas of Tamriel
New, repeatable quest content involving Contracts and the Black Sacrament
Challenging new group bosses and delves to conquer
A new passive skill line exclusive to members of the Dark Brotherhood
Unique costumes, motifs and item sets inspired by the deadly Dark Brotherhood
Meh... Never asked for it. Let's see how it goes.BASE GAME PATCH FEATURES & CONTENT
The removal of Veteran Ranks
This could be interesting, but I'm curious about balancing. If you can do massive poison damage together with hard-hitting abilities - think stealthy NB snipe spammer ganker - it could become yet another issue in PvP.Poison-Making, for those who want to be especially nasty to their enemies
Meh. Not going to use it myself, but I guess it can't hurt that others can enable it. The console thing seems to be good news, they've been playing for close to a year with their character names rendered meaningless.Toggle-able nameplates for all characters
Character name display for Xbox One and PlayStation®4
Good, it's one of those things that just make sense and add-on creators had already stepped in to fix. While you're at it: Advanced Filters? Awesome Guild Store? Alpha Gear? Those all should be in the base game for PC/Mac and consoles alike.Item locking to help prevent accidental deconstruction of your most valuable items
Will you be removing the ability for the leader to disband the group? Please do.Further improvements and new features to the Grouping Tool including a group ready check, vote-to-kick system, and updated queue timer
Character slots are the first thing I see that actually makes sense in the Crown Store. Should have been the first thing there. Don't know if I'll use them, but at least it's not texture packs applied on the same old 3d models. Also, while you're working on previews, PLEASE introduce a full-blown item preview system. The tiny icons you get at crafting stations are pitiful as a way to see what gear will look like on your character. Let us dress up and equip our characters with mock gear from any level/style/weight combination with a full 3d model of our character similar to the one in the character selection screen.Tons of updates to the Crown Store including additional character slots, motif previews, and hats
As a 0-day subscriber, I approve of this.Craft Bags for ESO Plus members
Are you removing well-fitted from the game? You are removing it, aren't you? Aren't you? Also, are you removing staffs with tanky set bonuses and heavy armour with DPS set bonuses from the loot tables?Improvements and adjustments to Item Traits
*grabs popcorn*Ongoing Cyrodiil performance improvements
So will you be making it kind of like Maw of Lorkhaj, where the vet version is very hard and the normal version is tough, but beatable by moderatly good groups? Also, will the gear drops scale to max level? If so, why just SO and not AA/Hel-Ra/DSA?Sanctum Ophidia Trial scaling, rebalancing and the addition of a Normal and Veteran mode
You are going to test them thoroughly on the PTS, aren't you? Also, whoever is "balancing" skills is actually playing the game, aren't they?Balance improvements to combat and gameplay abilities including the Fighters Guild skill line, Vampires and stamina abilities
…and more!
So, WGT and ICP nerf confirmed?In addition, we have numerous changes and improvements for previous DLC game packs including a new District capture system for Imperial City, and rebalancing for the Imperial City dungeons.
Why the heck are so many against well-fitted?- I like this trait, maybe it is not that useful on higher levels, but at lower levels it allows me to sprint for more than double the time than without it, with all 7 armor pieces made well-fitted.
And that means you guys want it removed, because it just benefits low levels?- What a selfish point of view, be ashamed that you even laugh about it.Improvements and adjustments to Item Traits
There's no denying it's useless apart from what you just said, and if you think that is fine to leave it as it is, then I don't know what to tell you.
There is currently only 3 desired traits in game: Divines, Impenetrable and Reinforced (to a point). I'm glad ZOS are adjusting to give us more choices to whatever they will be.
Again a selfish and self-centered point of view - "only 3 desired traits" - for a special group, which is not even the majority in this game. I find well-fitted quite useful for what I do in the game, to me that is a desired trait.
Secondly, Divines, Impen and Reinforced is used by a large majority of the population - it's self centered nor selfish to say which is mathematically the strongest and most useful traits
I don't like your attitude - you added a lol to "low level" - you look down on us. You do not think, that what is good for us matters at all, just because it is not useful to your group. That is a quite disgusting attitude. Just think about it.
While the "lol" in the post you quoted may have been overdone, thing is low level characters eventually level up. After which they tend to try the "endgame" content...and then they find out they can find really, really cool gear there that gives some really cool buffs...except 8/10 times it drops in well-fitted. And believe me, well-fitted doesn't really profit you in endgame.
Should it be removed, no I don't think so, it has a potential to be useful at low level at least, like you said, thus making it viable overall; the issue people have with it is not only top endgame gear can drop in well-fitted, it's that well-fitted seems MOST COMMON TRAIT for endgame dropped sets which is unacceptable.
Ironically they did remove sturdy, training and exploration from endgame loot tables...but somehow it feels like they have just been replaced with moar well-fitted. It is quite frustrating to run a dungeon 100 times to get a helm to maximize your dps only for it to come in well-fitted.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
You missed the point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Pretty much.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
They've favored horizontal progression over actually progressing and growing a character for this game.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
thats is correct, champion points were implemented as the complete replacement of vet system ... so lvl 50 will be the max level, then its champion points only after that
Well no offense to anyone or Zenimax but that seems really stupid. So really any kind of real progression of a character is gonna be removed. And what its being replaced with is, well not any kind of progression or leveling. What the heck? O.o How have people been looking forward to the removal of Veteran Ranks when its gonna be replaced with...nothing really.
As things stand now, I've got one VR16, one VR7, two VR6's. I'm at 337 CP right now, so all of my VR characters will be able to run with Rubedite/Ancestor Silk/Ruby Ash equipment the second that patch finishes downloading.
They'll all be "Max level". But then what?
What is there to strive for? Exploring the other Alliances? The Daggerfall Covenant is boring enough to put me to sleep on those insomnia nights. While I generally like the Aldmeri Dominion, they should have named it "The Explore Grahtwood Indefinitely Alliance"...
With the VR levels, I always had something to strive for. If not on my Main Sorcerer (my VR16), then by working on my Templar (my VR7). But there was always something to strive for. That next Vet Rank. That next Tier of equipment to craft.
Now... just like all of those other MMO's that instituted horizontal character improvement instead of upwardly mobile Character progressions via additional levels... I left those other MMO's because horizontal characters are damn boring.
There's nothing to strive for with that model.
And I really hope that boredom doesn't set in with ESO. I really, really like this game...
High five Uriel_Nocturne. Ive taken some gaming breaks now and then so I could have been VT 16 by now but Im at Veteran 6 on my main. But when the next update comes I will most likely scratch my head and totally be like "now what?". Ive gained 3 Veteran levels recently. All because Ive been totally like "I wanna get to Veteran 16!". Now its like all drive will be gone. Its not that I want to just have that "Veteran" and then whatever level I am above my name. Its just that now everyone will just be...stuck really.
They're instituting a stagnant, horizontal character progression system and placing too much emphasis on background passive increases (the CP constellation nodes) rather than actually giving you something to strive for with your characters.
Another change made to cater to impatient PvP players with little thought to how it will stagnate the rest of the game.
I'm sorry...Veteran levels are in no way something to strive for.
There is absolutely zero difference between a VR rank and a Champion Rank in terms of increasing in level...Only Champion Rank is actually better in terms of giving reward.
The level plus the added Skill point, possibility of a new Skill ability opening up, and more, all of these are part of the upward mobility I described as the part of attaining a new level.
CP's only bring passive effects (and fractions of a percentage point at a time I might add).
The move is going from feeling like you're actually accomplishing something (Vet Ranks), to a horizontal plateau where nothing really changes from CP to CP. This type of horizontal movement in character development creates stagnation, especially in the PvE side of the game.
You know, the other 3/4 of the game that doesn't include PvP and their impatient "I want my Alts max level NOW!!!" player base.
Skillpoints are undoubtedly good but you're going to get the 16 skillpoints during leveling(at least that's the plan as far as I understood it) so won't miss them. A skillpoint doesn't make that much of a difference though, especially if you like to quest - my main, having completed pretty much every single quest in the game, has well over 300 skillpoints. I have fully leveled and morphed all class skills, all destro/resto/s&b passive and most active skills, all heavy and light and some medium armor passives, all fighters'/mages'/undaunted guilds stuff, all crafting except proviosioning...there is enough skillpoints there, I don't ever remember feeling like a skillpoint upon reaching next rank is some significant progression.
In fact, vet ranks give so little to me it's always felt laughable(I mean, obviously you're entitled to your opinion, not saying it's ultimately wrong, just explaining mine). Your stats go up by like...almost nothing. You get an attribute points which adds like...300 points to a stat? You get a skillpoint number ~300(assuming you do like to quest and have all those skyshards and all), yay. You can now go craft yourself a new armor which will grant you a whole total of 10 more weapon/spelldamage than your old one. If it was vet 5/10/15, grats, you unlocked new food/potions. If it wasn't, tough luck because that's about it, go level some more.
CP system gives you (tiny, but significant over time) stat increase as well and possibility of unlocking new passives/improving old ones. It doesn't exactly make reaching skillpoint #497 overly exciting, but 497-0 CP will make a very noticeable difference.
Think about it this way - is the (questionable) joy of obtaining new veteran rank really the only thing that keeps you playing, only way you feel you can progress? Don't you like improving your character, learning how to play it better, completing challenging instances, mastering perfect execution of most complicated game mechanics? I felt a great sense of accomplishment when I 2 manned vet CoH for the first time ever(quite a while ago, had <200 CP back then and at that point it was actually really challenging). I didn't get a skillpoint or anything for this, in fact me and my "partner in crime" lost a lot of time, soulgems and potions doing this but I think we've both become a bit of better players for this. We learnt the very tiniest details of mechanics, learnt to pay very close attention to bosses cues, learnt how to manage our resources in an unfullteam scenario and found perfect heals/defence-dps balance in order to pull that off. We tried new skills' combinations and I think even different CP distributions in order to make it. It was fun, it was challenging and we felt like we accomplished something because we did what no one(or very few at least, haven't heard of anyone doing it before) else did.
If you're into more conventional stuff, simply completing a Trial or a vet dungeon for the first time should feel like achieving something imo. But next level? Why does it matter? It's a means to an end and I for one will be happy when I don't have to grind through 16 vet ranks on my char #5 in order to try a new build.
If the "you reached vet rank <next>" letters on your screen are really biggest motivation and source of feeling of achievemnt for you in the game, then well...you are of course entitled to your opinion, but are you sure sure you're having fun?0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭It'll make it easier for everyone to roll alts, it's a good thing. It'll give me the chance to experience top end content without the V1-16 grind over and over again.
Sorry, I can only do that once...3 -
Averya_Teira✭✭✭✭✭
What so level 50 will be max? Will there be like 10 more levels every year or what? And also is there a release date posted anywhere?
Champion system replaces VR. VR 16 becomes CP 160.Edited by Averya_Teira on 20 April 2016 21:090 -
Nyx2✭✭✭✭Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Actually, you're wrong.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
And that's the point I've been trying to make to everyone.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
And like Paris Hilton, there will be nothing to strive for since any Alt's will be "born into" max level.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
But that's why we play video games. So I don't have to compare my games to real life.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
You missed the point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Exactly my point.Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »
Pretty much.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
They've favored horizontal progression over actually progressing and growing a character for this game.7788b14_ESO wrote: »What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.
All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)
Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?
thats is correct, champion points were implemented as the complete replacement of vet system ... so lvl 50 will be the max level, then its champion points only after that
Well no offense to anyone or Zenimax but that seems really stupid. So really any kind of real progression of a character is gonna be removed. And what its being replaced with is, well not any kind of progression or leveling. What the heck? O.o How have people been looking forward to the removal of Veteran Ranks when its gonna be replaced with...nothing really.
As things stand now, I've got one VR16, one VR7, two VR6's. I'm at 337 CP right now, so all of my VR characters will be able to run with Rubedite/Ancestor Silk/Ruby Ash equipment the second that patch finishes downloading.
They'll all be "Max level". But then what?
What is there to strive for? Exploring the other Alliances? The Daggerfall Covenant is boring enough to put me to sleep on those insomnia nights. While I generally like the Aldmeri Dominion, they should have named it "The Explore Grahtwood Indefinitely Alliance"...
With the VR levels, I always had something to strive for. If not on my Main Sorcerer (my VR16), then by working on my Templar (my VR7). But there was always something to strive for. That next Vet Rank. That next Tier of equipment to craft.
Now... just like all of those other MMO's that instituted horizontal character improvement instead of upwardly mobile Character progressions via additional levels... I left those other MMO's because horizontal characters are damn boring.
There's nothing to strive for with that model.
And I really hope that boredom doesn't set in with ESO. I really, really like this game...
High five Uriel_Nocturne. Ive taken some gaming breaks now and then so I could have been VT 16 by now but Im at Veteran 6 on my main. But when the next update comes I will most likely scratch my head and totally be like "now what?". Ive gained 3 Veteran levels recently. All because Ive been totally like "I wanna get to Veteran 16!". Now its like all drive will be gone. Its not that I want to just have that "Veteran" and then whatever level I am above my name. Its just that now everyone will just be...stuck really.
They're instituting a stagnant, horizontal character progression system and placing too much emphasis on background passive increases (the CP constellation nodes) rather than actually giving you something to strive for with your characters.
Another change made to cater to impatient PvP players with little thought to how it will stagnate the rest of the game.
I'm sorry...Veteran levels are in no way something to strive for.
There is absolutely zero difference between a VR rank and a Champion Rank in terms of increasing in level...Only Champion Rank is actually better in terms of giving reward.
The level plus the added Skill point, possibility of a new Skill ability opening up, and more, all of these are part of the upward mobility I described as the part of attaining a new level.
CP's only bring passive effects (and fractions of a percentage point at a time I might add).
The move is going from feeling like you're actually accomplishing something (Vet Ranks), to a horizontal plateau where nothing really changes from CP to CP. This type of horizontal movement in character development creates stagnation, especially in the PvE side of the game.
You know, the other 3/4 of the game that doesn't include PvP and their impatient "I want my Alts max level NOW!!!" player base.
Horizontal progression is not that bad as you think. It is more like in real life - well, there are a few levels to acquire (like academical grades), but otherwise it is mainly horizontal progression. We can still feel accomplished in real life, can't we?-
In video games, it feels good to be running around as a minor Deity. In real life, not so possible.
Depends on your real life, I am kind of a minor deity for my employees. Even I do not feel like it, but in fact, if I would mess up, they would have to suffer. I take my responsibilities seriously due to that. I do not have to feel superior in a game nor in real life. I might be in some sectors, but in others I don't. People have different talents, there is not really an objective "better".
Edit: what I want to say with it, feeling like a champion, just because levels make you to one, is a bit cheap. That is like Paris Hilton, she feels like the god given gift to the world - but she is born into this level, she has not accomplished it and regardless how much of a minor deity she might feel to be, to me she is nothing like that. She has just inherited wealth and is spending it - anyone can do that, when born into this level.
Argh, you are right, I forgot about that this is account-wide now.
While this might be good for the fraction of the player base who are impatient and want all their Alts at max level with the smallest possible effort, the other 3/4 of the game will hit that stagnation of a horizontal plateau for character development.
It brings out a "what's the point" mentality to doing anything in the PvE game aside from your starting Alliance.
Additional level aren't content in any way. If you don't enjoy dungeons and finished every quest, you're done with PvE. There is no point to vet ranks other than excluding players a long time until they can focus on being truly competent.
Levels are best described as "upward mobility". It's something to strive for that is higher than you were before. It makes the journey through the levels as much of an accomplishment as the "destination" end level (i.e. VR16).
This applies even to the "end game" levels which are the Vet Ranks.
With the removal of those and a focus on CP's (which only give you passive, background improvements), it creates a "plateau" of progression. Your character isn't actually going anywhere or growing anymore. The increases to "power" are minimal if noticeable in any way because each CP assigned only gives you a couple of tenths of a percent increase to your abilities.
This creates a stagnated environment where there's little to no point to progressing beyond your home Alliance.
As I've said many times; this change from VR's to CP-only charcter progression only benefits the 1/4 of the game that is PvP, and even then it only benefits the small percentage of the 1/4 who are too impatient and want all of their Alts to be at max level with the smallest effort possible.
No other MMO allows this or has a system in place like this. This is what making sweeping changes to a game based upon the smallest fraction of a player base does to MMO's.
This type of plateau has killed player populations in at least five MMO's I can name off the top of my head, as players get bored because there's nowhere to grow a character after finishing the first third of the game.
That's your opinion so telling me "you're wrong" makes no sense.
And what's the point of striving for vet ranks? They're levels just like 1 - 50. They're all just numbers which tells me you don't seem to understand what games are all about. You don't even know the details of the implementation yet you spout all this garbage. Despite all the text you're writing everything just amounts to an unreasonably explained "I wants to be stronger and stronger and be able to look down upon all these non-veteran peasants."
Make actual arguments why it shouldn't be easier to reach the end game content. Because all the vet ranks are meaningless grinding, stopping you from exactly that.3 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I never understood, why people go for something like boring grind - my progress might be slow (as well because I do not have that much time to play), but I can at least say, that there is nothing what I have done in the game, what would not have been fun to do. I refuse to do anything, what isn't fun, I am not here to work, but to relax and enjoy the game world. If I do not have fun or would hit a wall, which would force me to grind - well, there are other games out there and bye - I am here to have fun.6 -
DemiDemon✭✭Anyone have any idea what is coming in place of the VR ranks? You still get skill points as you level so either those are going to get ripped off the ones that worked for it or they are raising the level cap.PC/Xbox One - NA0 -
code65536✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Why the heck are so many against well-fitted?- I like this trait, maybe it is not that useful on higher levels, but at lower levels it allows me to sprint for more than double the time than without it, with all 7 armor pieces made well-fitted.
How important is sprinting in this game? With horses and Major Expedition, the answer, for most players, is "not very". Even on low-level characters, there are other traits that I'd rather have instead: Exploration or Training.
That said, it wouldn't take much adjusting to make Well-Fitted into a desirable trait.
Imagine if it was revamped into "Decrease the stamina cost of sprinting and blocking"; then it becomes a BiS trait for tanks.
And if it was "Decrease the stamina cost of sprinting, dodge-rolling, breaking free, and blocking", then it'd be one of the best traits in the game and beat out Impenetrable for best PvP trait.Edited by code65536 on 20 April 2016 21:30Nightfighters ― PC/NA and PC/EU
Dungeons and Trials:Personal best scores:- Dragonstar Arena: 46817 (NA)
- Maelstrom Arena: 600526 (NA)
- Blackrose Prison: 99274 (EU) (Unchained)
- Maw of Lorkhaj: 165227 (EU)
- Halls of Fabrication: 220708 (NA) (Tick-Tock Tormentor #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10, #11, #12)
- Asylum Sanctorium: 114957 (NA) (Immortal Redeemer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8, #9, #10)
- Cloudrest: 131256 (NA) (Gryphon Heart #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Sunspire: 250866 (EU) (Godslayer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7)
- Kyne's Aegis: 235841 (EU) (Dawnbringer #1, #2, #3, #4, #5, #6, #7, #8)
Dungeon trifectas:- Mountain God and Leave No Bone Unbroken
- Apex Predator and Pure Lunacy
- Depths Defier and Relentless Raider
- Defanged the Devourer and Nature's Wrath
- In Defiance of Death and No Rest for the Wicked
- Bane of Thorns and True Genius
- Ardent Bibliophile and Subterranean Smasher
- Battlespire's Best and Bastion Breaker
- Zero Regrets and Land, Air, and Sea Supremacy
- Fist of Tava and Invader's Bane
- Curator's Champion (Valinna) and Temporal Tempest
- Unshakeable Fervor and Lighting the Embers
Extended Journal Add-Ons: Item Set Browser ― Loot Log ― Character Knowledge ― Collectibles Tracker ― RaidificatorPC/Console Add-Ons: Combat Alerts ― Group Buff PanelsOther Add-Ons: Deconstruction Junk Marker ― Purge Tracker ― Asylum Status Panel ― Smart Looter ― Improved Companion Rapport Information1
