Is this the removal of Veteran Ranks?! (DARK BROTHERHOOD NEWS)

BeardedOrphan

@ZOS_GinaBruno So the only fun and somewhat challenging content in the game seems to be getting nerfs with no sign of any new difficult 4-player content to follow it? If this is really the case it will be a long wait for the dlc after DB to bring new end game content.

Wollust

@ZOS_GinaBruno Any ETA on PTS arrival?

Uriel_Nocturne

VDoom1 wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.

All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)

Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?

Pretty much.

They've favored horizontal progression over actually progressing and growing a character for this game.

Mcwoods55

I wonder if they will make vamps viable again! Pretty excited about this.

I really hope they have more then 4 skyshards in this one.... We need to be able to get at least 3 skill points (plus 2 from each dungeon via completion and group event). I have one character who is master crafter in all areas and have all skyshards but I don't have any extras left....

Wish they would show us the skill line and a release date

W0lf_z13

VDoom1 wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.

All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)

Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?

thats is correct, champion points were implemented as the complete replacement of vet system ... so lvl 50 will be the max level, then its champion points only after that

Eleusian

finally item blocking to prevent Decon.

W0lf_z13

Mcwoods55 wrote: »

I wonder if they will make vamps viable again! Pretty excited about this.

I really hope they have more then 4 skyshards in this one.... We need to be able to get at least 3 skill points (plus 2 from each dungeon via completion and group event). I have one character who is master crafter in all areas and have all skyshards but I don't have any extras left....

Wish they would show us the skill line and a release date

Agreed, def curious as to what they are going to do, I have a vamp dunmer dk just sitting and waiting for me to play it again... will be interesting to say the least

Rune_Relic

Taonnor wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Yep! It's happening in the next update, for real.

Are am i awake?

Shhhhhhhhhh!
Its just a dream.....go back to sleep.

tinythinker

Hello @NewBlacksmurf, my reply is a little long but by the end of it I hope to have addressed the issues you raised. I am not trying to convince you to accept or like my ideas, just to clarify them. The very end of this comment may help clear up a big source of confusion between our previous replies.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

In complete I'm writing:
-I think the vote system is all that is "needed" in context to this thread.

I'm talking about improvements, which people can subjectively classify as a need or want depending upon their point of view. Whether someone feels that my suggestions count as "wants" or "needs" is not something I am worried about. I would like to have these features so I propose them.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

-I'm not saying other changes aren't desired...."need" vs want or desired vary dramatically.
-wait times vary for all of us....but for sure, if you add any system that requires additional input, it delays the party members leaving the group therefore exponentially it does increase the wait time for others already in queue as some players will ring a PUG, exit and then requeue for another soon after if not immediately after.

I don't see which part of what I suggested adds such a burden. The group finder would work the same way with my suggestion in terms of sorting people into groups. There is no additional input by players. If the system detects that there could be more groups made *if* there were more tanks, then it advertises this fact. A player could choose to switch gear or characters, sure, but they don't have to. It's just an ad. If you use the group finder and see that there is frequently a bonus for tanks, maybe you decide to start running as a tank. Maybe you don't. But the group finder itself still does what it is doing right now, matching people into groups based on the role they have selected.Either way they would select the role *before* the group-finder started trying to place them, so again, I don't see how your objection fits. As for the general issue of people bailing on randomly formed groups, I already see players who get in a group and either don't like that it has low level players or they don't like the random dungeon chosen by the program and leave.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

-rewarding roles while it will impact those who fit your definition of said roles, it also will further encourage those you complain about becaus now there is a double reward. (Lower wait time and an additional bonus). The problem that causes players to choose the role that you identify as a problem and a commends/rec system will not change this, what happens is you seperate the player base which is an over reaction to the issue you describe.

There is a language barrier here and I honestly don't know what you are trying to say is the problem. My apologies but I'm not sure what your objection is. The commendation system I have suggested has zero to do with who gets in a group. It is a way of rewarding/being nice to other players. In another thread I said that having a high enough number of commendations could be used as a part of a mentoring system, but that is a different topic. [If it is because of the link to my dark anchor/dark fissure thread, please see the end of this reply.]

I'm also not sure what you mean by double rewards or encouraging problems. If a player who can do more than one role with a character decided to switch to their tank set before using a group-finder, as opposed to using the group-finder as a damage dealer, that means that such a player will help three other people form a group faster. So two damage dealers and a healer just had their wait time for a group made shorter. If that player had chosen to enter the group finder as a damage dealer, he and those other damage dealers and the healer would still be waiting for someone else to come along who has chosen to be a tank.

When you have more people choosing roles that are less popular, everyone gets into groups faster. To encourage people to choose those roles, you reward them, which is the basis of my proposal. To discourage them from only pretending to be able to do that role, you use vote-kick. As I've written already, when frauds realize they will just get kicked, the number of people faking a role will go down. At the same time, people who want to tank or to learn to tank (or whatever role is in demand) will be more likely to do so because they will get a bonus. Having more people who are able and willing to do whatever roles are in demand improves the wait times for all players using group-finder.

If I am right, the amount of frauds goes down after a while, and more people enter the group-finder in more roles. The reward system is kept and makes things better for all players. If I am wrong, and months into the reward system there are just endless frauds and no real increase in people legitimately signing up for different roles, the system is scrapped and we are no worse off than we are now.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Again...I have ideas that differ from yours and I don't have the answer but specifically being apart of many games like this as well as beta and real time testing and on the back end working with recommend set stems on larger networks like Xbox live.....I can tell you that those systems create more problems rather than resolving the issue you describe.

If you have a good idea I encourage you to start a thread and share it with the forums. I started one for my rec system idea (linked in a previous comment in this thread), and by having a thread for your idea you can more easily link it when the topic comes up or you wish to send it to someone.

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

It's not ideal but it would better be resolved by locking roles to a set group of skills and spells on the bar that once a role is selected, those weapons and skills are locked until the queue hits and the encounter is completed....but there are negatives to that as well but I think it's more logical and negates the need of any rec system

Two things:

1. There are many ways to be a tank, healer, or dps, so having pre-requisite gear or skills would diminish build diversity. I understand the concept, but the algorithm may end up disallowing builds because they didn't register as typical.

2. The rec/commend system has nothing to do with who gets picked for a group. I've said this before, I will repeat it just to be clear. When I wrote my thread about improving events like dark anchors and fissures, at the end I threw in an idea to up-vote/down-vote players after a dungeon run that would have people get in faster or slow based on reputation, which is probably why you mentioned getting to groups faster or slower.

After thinking about it I didn't like the idea so I started a new thread about commending people in which there was no down-vote. It would just be a way to give positive feedback and encouragement to other players. I did suggest it *could* be linked to a mentoring system, a system I wrote about months ago, but, even then it would have zero effect on any kind of priority for getting into a group. I then went back to the dark anchor/dark fissure thread I had created and edited it to say that we didn't need the up-vote/down-vote mechanic if we had a vote-kick system with commendations.

If the original comment on the dark anchor/dark fissure post is still confusing, I will go back and strikeout the one section to more clearly show that is has been voided out and replaced by something else.

magnusthorek

Sadly, crating bags will be really exclusive to ESO Plus members. This would be an acquisition worth to charge a high amount of crowns, differently of the almost useless assistants.

Eshelmen

But on the flipside, for those who have been shelling out 15 bucks a month, will finally have something actually worth subscribing for. 10% increase is nice, but it's not worth $15 a month. Something else exclusive has to be added to ESO Plus and this is a definite exclusive that sets the difference between not paying a dime all month to those who do.

Having all DLCs, 10% increase and now crafters bags? It makes it a lot easier for subbing and supporting this game even further. IMO. Not everything should have shortcuts (IE single crown store purchases)

Khaos_Bane

Eshelmen wrote: »

But on the flipside, for those who have been shelling out 15 bucks a month, will finally have something actually worth subscribing for. 10% increase is nice, but it's not worth $15 a month.

Having all DLCs, 10% increase and now crafters bags? It makes it a win win for subbing and supporting this game even further. IMO.

It was worth it before the crafting bag, even more now.

People will pay $15 to go to ONE two hour movie, so 15$ for this game is no big deal.

tinythinker

magnusthorek wrote: »

Sadly, crating bags will be really exclusive to ESO Plus members. This would be an acquisition worth to charge a high amount of crowns, differently of the almost useless assistants.

If I recall the original version of crafting bags, people who sub get unlimited space for mats. If that is still true, you could offer a lesser version for non-subbers in the Crown Store, like, a 50 slot small craft bag *or* a 100 slot large craft bag (unique, account-wide) for a tidy pile of cash. It would still be something non-subbers with banks bursting with mats would want, but it wouldn't be nearly as good as what subbers get.

Uriel_Nocturne

tinythinker wrote: »

magnusthorek wrote: »

Sadly, crating bags will be really exclusive to ESO Plus members. This would be an acquisition worth to charge a high amount of crowns, differently of the almost useless assistants.

If I recall the original version of crafting bags, people who sub get unlimited space for mats. If that is still true, you could offer a lesser version for non-subbers in the Crown Store, like, a 50 slot small craft bag *or* a 100 slot large craft bag (unique, account-wide) for a tidy pile of cash. It would still be something non-subbers with banks bursting with mats would want, but it wouldn't be nearly as good as what subbers get.

I have four extra characters that are "Crafting Bags/Mules". At 60 Inventory slots per character, that's an extra 240 spaces to store what I need. lol

W0lf_z13

tinythinker wrote: »

magnusthorek wrote: »

Sadly, crating bags will be really exclusive to ESO Plus members. This would be an acquisition worth to charge a high amount of crowns, differently of the almost useless assistants.

If I recall the original version of crafting bags, people who sub get unlimited space for mats. If that is still true, you could offer a lesser version for non-subbers in the Crown Store, like, a 50 slot small craft bag *or* a 100 slot large craft bag (unique, account-wide) for a tidy pile of cash. It would still be something non-subbers with banks bursting with mats would want, but it wouldn't be nearly as good as what subbers get.

Only thing i could see that would be an issue is for example... i only have 80 spots in my bank ( didnt want to dish out more gold for another upgrade ) and that holds most of my mats. So if the crafting bag was available in the crown store for even a 100 slot option a subscription wouldnt be needed ( if others were the same way as me )

Eshelmen

Okay so what are we all thinking here?

750 crowns for a 75 slot bag?

1250 crowns for a 150 slot?

Hyssia

Eshelmen wrote: »

Okay so what are we all thinking here?

750 crowns for a 75 slot bag?

1250 crowns for a 150 slot?

2500 crowns for a 40 slot bag - wanna bet?


TAKE YOUR BETS HERE!

Eshelmen

Hyssia wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

Okay so what are we all thinking here?

750 crowns for a 75 slot bag?

1250 crowns for a 150 slot?

2500 crowns for a 40 slot bag - wanna bet?


TAKE YOUR BETS HERE!

lolol.
And those would be PER character too eh?
LOL

tinythinker

...

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

magnusthorek wrote: »

Sadly, crating bags will be really exclusive to ESO Plus members. This would be an acquisition worth to charge a high amount of crowns, differently of the almost useless assistants.

If I recall the original version of crafting bags, people who sub get unlimited space for mats. If that is still true, you could offer a lesser version for non-subbers in the Crown Store, like, a 50 slot small craft bag *or* a 100 slot large craft bag (unique, account-wide) for a tidy pile of cash. It would still be something non-subbers with banks bursting with mats would want, but it wouldn't be nearly as good as what subbers get.

I have four extra characters that are "Crafting Bags/Mules". At 60 Inventory slots per character, that's an extra 240 spaces to store what I need. lol

Sure, but many people don't want to use (so many) mules, so for them an unlimited bag with sub or another 50 to 100 inventory spaces on their account is worth it. No one needs 20 mounts skins, pets, and costumes either, or packs of crowns store food and potions, but they keep buying them

tinythinker

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

tinythinker wrote: »

magnusthorek wrote: »

Sadly, crating bags will be really exclusive to ESO Plus members. This would be an acquisition worth to charge a high amount of crowns, differently of the almost useless assistants.

If I recall the original version of crafting bags, people who sub get unlimited space for mats. If that is still true, you could offer a lesser version for non-subbers in the Crown Store, like, a 50 slot small craft bag *or* a 100 slot large craft bag (unique, account-wide) for a tidy pile of cash. It would still be something non-subbers with banks bursting with mats would want, but it wouldn't be nearly as good as what subbers get.

Only thing i could see that would be an issue is for example... i only have 80 spots in my bank ( didnt want to dish out more gold for another upgrade ) and that holds most of my mats. So if the crafting bag was available in the crown store for even a 100 slot option a subscription wouldnt be needed ( if others were the same way as me )

There are folks who have their bank maxed out and a mule who want more space for mats. Some players would need or want exactly zero extra spaces for mats. ZOS must have data on a sufficient number of people maxing out available storage with crafting stuff, of which there will always be new types requiring additional distinct slots for more and more stacks.

Purdomination33

Any idea how armor and weapons will work with removal of Vet levels? Are we maxing out with level 50 armor/weapons? And will the weapon damage and other stats remain the same?

I honestly still do not understand the point of removing Vet levels. Or why they are there in the first place. Just make levels 1-Max Level. Veteran rank is just different name for level 51-66. Now Champion point level 'insert max number' will be another name for Vet 16. Seems like a lot of work to just to change the name.

I just hope removal of Vet ranks does not effect any of the stats I worked so hard (figuratively speaking, it is a video game afterall) to achieve.

Nyx2

Does anyone have an idea when we can expect this update?

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

But on the flipside, for those who have been shelling out 15 bucks a month, will finally have something actually worth subscribing for. 10% increase is nice, but it's not worth $15 a month.

Having all DLCs, 10% increase and now crafters bags? It makes it a win win for subbing and supporting this game even further. IMO.

It was worth it before the crafting bag, even more now.

People will pay $15 to go to ONE two hour movie, so 15$ for this game is no big deal.

Thats if you sneak in your snacks and go alone. Take a date and buy some popcorn and two pops your at $75 ish lol.

tinythinker

Purdomination33 wrote: »

Any idea how armor and weapons will work with removal of Vet levels? Are we maxing out with level 50 armor/weapons? And will the weapon damage and other stats remain the same?

I honestly still do not understand the point of removing Vet levels. Or why they are there in the first place. Just make levels 1-Max Level. Veteran rank is just different name for level 51-66. Now Champion point level 'insert max number' will be another name for Vet 16. Seems like a lot of work to just to change the name.

I just hope removal of Vet ranks does not effect any of the stats I worked so hard (figuratively speaking, it is a video game afterall) to achieve.

When it was last discussed by ZOS, vet ranks for gear convert to 10 Champion Ranks per Veteran Rank, so that VR16 gear becomes Champion Rank 160 gear. This made it sound like you would need Champion Rank 160 to equip it. The current Champion cap is 501, so, anyone even halfway to that cap should be able to use any gear they have now. This was mentioned as something they were "looking at". We have no idea what version will be coming out. If this is how it does work, though, then the new highest possible gear rank will one day be Champion Rank 3600.

DatNutrient

Looks like they haven't listened to almost anything players have said to me.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

DatNutrient wrote: »

Looks like they haven't listened to almost anything players have said to me.

So noone wanted crafting bags, vet rank removal or district capture in IC?

Ch4mpTW

I'm curious about something... Instead of it showing our veteran rank near our names, will it instead show how many champion points we have? Or will it just say our names in general?

tinythinker

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

I'm curious about something... Instead of it showing our veteran rank near our names, will it instead show how many champion points we have? Or will it just say our names in general?

They said they were trying to figure that out when asked a while back. No word since on what they came up with.

VDoom1

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

VDoom1 wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.

All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)

Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?

Pretty much.

They've favored horizontal progression over actually progressing and growing a character for this game.

W0lf_z13 wrote: »

VDoom1 wrote: »

Eshelmen wrote: »

7788b14_ESO wrote: »

What will VR be replaced with? Do you just login and see all your characters at level 50? Or will you see level 54 instead of VR4? Will there be problems with wearing gear or weapons sets, or will they be totally reworked or just disappear? This is like a major thing that should have some details given. Are people currently leveling VR ranks for nothing? This is going to be interesting.

All progression will be based on champion points after level 50.
Veteren gear level requirements( Like a VR 16 chest piece) will be replaced with champion point requirements. (Like a CP 300 Chest Piece)

Really? So champion points thats it. There will be no level 51 or any other new kind of leveling system?

thats is correct, champion points were implemented as the complete replacement of vet system ... so lvl 50 will be the max level, then its champion points only after that

Well no offense to anyone or Zenimax but that seems really stupid. So really any kind of real progression of a character is gonna be removed. And what its being replaced with is, well not any kind of progression or leveling. What the heck? O.o How have people been looking forward to the removal of Veteran Ranks when its gonna be replaced with...nothing really.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Im withholding judgement on the whole VR removal thing until I see more detail than simply they are gone. Or months old quotes.