Commendation/Mentor System for group-finder random dungeon parties?

tinythinker

Would you like to be able to give someone a at the end of a successful run with a random group for a random dungeon? If so, what about people who acquire a certain rep level being given mentor status to help newer/less experienced players? I kind of miss being able to give a to a player from a random queue who did a good job or who showed that they were new but trying/learning and pushed through their mistakes.



UPDATE: CLARIFICATION/EXPANSION

OK, well, there are lots of ways to do a commendation system, and naturally some folks who hear about my idea assume one of those ways and judge it on that basis. In fact, when I first thought of it in another post, I had the idea of it being an up-vote/down-vote system. Didn't take me long to scrap that, and I didn't bring that concept here, but, it seems like it's something people are worried about anyway.

Another thing people are worried about is that it would be part of a public ranking system that could further encourage elitism. So let me be clear that the way I would add this system this would *not* be the case. More on that and what such a system could look like below...

Spoiler

So, as for reps/rec/coms, or reputations/recommendations/commendations, whichever term is used:

-you would only get them from random groups, not pre-made groups.
-having lots of them would not get you shorter dungeon queues.
-they would not be a badge of superiority/people couldn't see your number of commendations.

Those to me would be non-negotiable, as the whole point is to be friendly, welcoming, encouraging, etc. Boosting elitism is the opposite of those things. The commendation is something given as a thanks or an encouragement, a kind pat of the back, not a "I'm so much more awesome than you" kind of deal.

Now, at the most basic level, you simply get commendations, only you can see them, and they are a form of positive reinforcement for trying your best with random groups for dungeons using the group-finder tool. That is the bare minimum of the idea presented in the original post I made above. That's it.

Yes, I have mentioned a mentoring system before, and I hinted that a commendation system could be tied to it in the original version of this post, but again, that would not be a system of superiority but of service.

Before reading further, keep the vision laid out above in mind.

Commendations

How would I go about building a system to make random groups/dungeons more fun, welcoming, and social? For one thing, give people achievements for their commendations. Hold on, tiny! you may be thinking That would lead to achievement checks and elitism! In my view, elitists gonna elite. They can already ask you to show achievements or titles for Undaunted/Vet Dungeon stuff, or for running arenas, and so on. They can ask for your DPS. But you can tell them "no", and you can report them if they try to kick you for refusing to answer.

Players like achievements. Getting commendations from strangers you got grouped with in group finder, and getting enough for an achievement, is going to give a lot of new or "inexperienced with dungeons" type players a great feeling. I've written guides for such players before and encouragement really helps. We want *more* regular, fun players getting into these groups, so reward them for it.

There's more though. Because in my system, players with low Undaunted levels/rank would offer increased rewards to the whole party upon completing that random dungeon. If you want a super-speed or farming run, use /zone or /guild. The obvious pitfall here is that some people would just make alts to get the bonuses, so take it easy, because this would be like the dye system: account-wide. It goes off the highest Undaunted rank any character has. So if people want to delete their established characters for a dungeon run bonus, be my guest!

In this same pattern, each time you get a group dungeon achievement in a random-dungeon group for the first time on your account, the whole party gets another bonus at the end of a completed run. This means that other players have a real interest in helping each other, but especially newer/less experienced players. There is an incentive to be helpful and patient and to celebrate the little victories of other players.

Oh, and did I mention that if you abandon a group once it is formed that A.) you are locked out from running in a random dungeon for 30 minutes and that B.) you lose those extra group rewards for an hour? If a group is really that bad and you are that impatient to leave it go ahead, but there is a cool-down period. Rage-quitters and those looking for whatever they consider to be a better group get a time out.

Mentoring

As for mentoring, it isn't a badge of being the best and "let's all celebrate my snobbishness". It means you've run a LOT of random dungeons under the conditions given above. That means you had or have developed patience, a knack for giving friendly advice and for tolerating mistakes by less experience players, and so on, and you really like meeting people and working as a part of a team. How else would you get the number of commendations needed to qualify? (I'm thinking between 500 and 1000).

Mentors get their own achievements, so right there is more positive reinforcement for being friendly and helpful. For functionality, it would mean a player is, when possible, paired with less experienced players *if* they enter the queue as a mentor. This does not get them into a group faster with the random dungeon selector, it just means they can choose to be paired, when available, with people who likely need more help. But if you want, you can deselect the "group as a mentor" option in the group-finder tool. You choose if and when you want to put yourself out there as available for that.

This is still a brief sketch. Unanswered questions I am looking at include ones like, "Should someone who has earned mentor status and chooses to run as a mentor get some extra rewards at the end of a random dungeon run?" So, that is something I'd especially appreciate opinions/feedback on.

Thanks for reading. Comments go below. Don't forget to rate this post if you like it

NewBlacksmurf

Consoles differ from PC so I'll say that for PC...I can see the desire and maybe as long as its just that.
The mentor stuff....no because there are enough elitist minded or my-way or the highway folks out there who only see it a few ways and don't consider what information ZOS has set forth for the game.

I can see more harm than good but the thumbs up only seems fine.

Zorrashi

Why limit it to just dungeons though? Make it somewhat applicable in the open world too. That way we can up vote people who are nice and down vote people like harassers.

But as with any vote system, it is prone to abuse. Particularly when a group of players manage to convince a ton of people to down vote others just because they can.
For dungeons in particular, down votes will range from players displaying a bad attitude, to players just getting angered at the fact that another player refuses to play the way he/she wants (You should slot X if you want to be a good DPS. I'll down vote if you don't), to players that act very cordial but get a down vote because their performance was not 'up to standard'.

Maybe add a system for reputation (how they act) alongside a performance system (how they play)? It won't exactly get rid of the problem, but I don't see how it can make it worse either. Its mostly just a way to clarify what they are good/bad at instead of relying on a singular indicator.

tinythinker

Well, I'm more interested in commending players than a mentor system, though they tend to go together, and yes there can be abuse in any system so that is an issue to consider. I just like giving people something to recognize their effort and make them smile and not give up or reward really exceptional game play.

Oh, as for only having it for random groups it is so that friends/ guildies won't just give each other recs all day.

imnotanother

If it is only for dungeons, have the ranking system be based off of achievements earned.

tinythinker

imnotanother wrote: »

If it is only for dungeons, have the ranking system be based off of achievements earned.

For mentors? Perhaps. I've suggested that in another thread. But the mentor thing was mentioned here because it often goes with a rec system, which is the part I would rather see. Recs don't have to lead to any kind of official ranking.

Garldeen

I like the Player Commendation system they have on FFXIV. It is a good way to say 'good work' to someone in the group at the end of an event

tinythinker

wonkydog wrote: »

I like the Player Commendation system they have on FFXIV. It is a good way to say 'good work' to someone in the group at the end of an event

Yeah, that's the one where at the end of a successful run each party member gets a rec to pass out, right?

EDIT: Yep, it is. That game has a ton of instanced content people can run, and at least 4-5 different types, all of which you can do with a random queue. Hope that ESO will one day have that diversity of such content.

IcyDeadPeople

Wasn't familiar with in-game mentor until I tried DOTA 2, had absolutely no clue how to play and someone randomly mentored me. This feature works really well, results in both the mentor and mentee having fun.

For such a complex game like ESO, when you start playing for the first time it can be overwhelming, especially for those of us who have not played other MMOs.

emily3989

I remember a game, not sure which, where if you entered the finder system, you would be placed on a lfg list. That way if a party needed someone, they would just open the list, see your class/role/lvl, even a brief desc. of whatever you wanted in there, can't remember if they could actually inspect your toon from there though.

This was about a decade ago, I am thinking EQ2, but don't hold me to that.

That way, you could simply send a tell or invite whoever you wanted off that list (esp. helpful in ESO where there is no global chats).

Example:

Players Currently LFG

---

lvl 16 NB DPS lf any normal dungeon
lvl V12 SOR Tank lf vet pledge gold key
lvl V1 DK Looking to grind in old orsinium


I remember seeing an tank, hearler, a couple dps all on there looking for the same thing (groups of 6) and I just invited them all in like 10 seconds and we had a whole group.

Not sure how difficult this would be since Sony had it working 10 years ago.

tinythinker

And just something random and a bit off-topic, but it would be nice if the random search automatically made tank the lead, since the tank, well, leads and pulls. I mean it could be manually changed to someone else if that was needed or wanted, but for default why not?

Garldeen

tinythinker wrote: »

show previous quotes

wonkydog wrote: »

I like the Player Commendation system they have on FFXIV. It is a good way to say 'good work' to someone in the group at the end of an event

Yeah, that's the one where at the end of a successful run each party member gets a rec to pass out, right?

EDIT: Yep, it is. That game has a ton of instanced content people can run, and at least 4-5 different types, all of which you can do with a random queue. Hope that ESO will one day have that diversity of such content.

Yes I agree with the instance content. Although I vastly prefer ESO, the group finder system in FFXIV is so much better. I play the game for a month every now and then and only I'm a level 31 tank but i've never waited more than 2 mins for a group.

The FFXIV group content puts this game to shame. So many more trials, dungeons and PVP modes. It is subscription based, but it seems, in this case, you get what you pay for

Rune_Relic

Only problem I have is it being used as an experience rating system purely by the number of votes.
1 vote - noob...they wont be no good.
1000 vote - arrr now this guy/gal should know what he/she is doing.
Especilly if it is only tied to group finder dungeons and nothing else.

Giving people the opportunity to weed out new players instead of help them learn wont be good for ESO IMHO.

BUT..I am not against as a recommed system in principle.

tinythinker

Rune_Relic wrote: »

Only problem I have is it being used as an experience rating system purely by the number of votes.
1 vote - noob...they wont be no good.
1000 vote - arrr now this guy/gal should know what he/she is doing.
Especilly if it is only tied to group finder dungeons and nothing else.

Giving people the opportunity to weed out new players instead of help them learn wont be good for ESO IMHO.

BUT..I am not against as a recommed system in principle.

Well, I can see why you would be concerned if that were the case. I had planned to update my OP since a lot of people seem to think I am going for a public ranking system, so it probably should be discussed to avoid future confusion.

susmitds

If a reputation system is indeed ever introduced, I don't think it would ever have a downvote as there are people who would potentially use the downvote as a weapon. I mean, look at the forum itself. Do you see a "stupid", "disagree" or "bull****" button?

tinythinker

susmitds wrote: »

If a reputation system is indeed ever introduced, I don't think it would ever have a downvote as there are people who would potentially use the downvote as a weapon. I mean, look at the forum itself. Do you see a "stupid", "disagree" or "bull****" button?

Well, people keep thinking I want a down-vote option, so I've included a sketch of my idea in the original post. Oh, and @Rune_Relic was worried about that too. It's in new part just above the spoiler, with details in the spoiler itself.

Rune_Relic

Excellent Work.