The Gold Road Chapter – which includes the Scribing system – and Update 42 is now available to test on the PTS! You can read the latest patch notes here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/656454/
Maintenance for the week of April 29:
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
• PC/Mac: No maintenance – April 29
We will be performing maintenance for patch 10.0.2 on the PTS on Monday at 8:00AM EDT (12:00 UTC).
PTS Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance Improvements
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STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭now for a really odd question:
Concerning the SAKing issue (Successful Ambush Kill) where someone dies in 2-3s from an ambush strike with light then ult maybe procs involved like we have seen recaps from...
In some of these cases, the observation that "if i could just get a chance to respond it would be over cuz..."
Well, has there been any attempt to use say armor set like Whitestrake?
White strake is sub-optimal by the normal metas-that-be of course but it has one interesting feature - it spawns a 10k (half in battle spirit but still 5k+) damage shield when you get hit at 30% or less health. That would seem to be a decent chance (unless the timing lucked out and had the big whammy hit at say 29% health) to drop a sudden 5k shield add to the mix and its "no crit" until its gone etc helping you to get that extra second or two to start the dodging and healing and whatever.
might surprise some SAKers.Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hippie_Einstein wrote: »If you have any honor remaining, please revert this change.
No honor among thieves. They will clearly break one of our core abilities with no answer as to why or who asked for this. These patches wouldn't be so bad if they gave us a reason as to why or who wants them or maybe worked with the community to find balance. I'm really curious what made this decision go through because no one complained about vc. Forum checking shows everyone is majority in agreement procs shouldn't stack 3 high, heavy armor needs nerf, and light armor needs buff but not a single one of those touched? Really? And they have the audacity to call this a "balance" when those 3 have been rampant for months. Feels like ZOS giving us all a big finger saying they do whatever they want to make money, *** the players... With sorc it feels like we're ZOS's one night stand. Constantly getting *** without a simple call back or explanation
No one complained about VC
however lotsa PLAYERS complained about high burst short duration fights in PVP, lotsa PLAYERS complained about staff v dw spell damage, lotsa PLAYERS complained about the sustained damage shortfall between magica compared to stamina etc and other related issues which make toning down some of the higher burst combos (while buffing overall dps for non-dw mag) all of which tie into needing to reduce the strength of the SBT (sorc burst trinity) in conjunction with the other changes.
i think we will likely see it altered in PTS3, a dot or other type of option, but keeping the SBT as it was plus the 8% boost to frags and VC adding in with the staff really aint gonna happen in a tone-down-burst balance patch.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics applies.
Every major patch some previous builds/metas/sequences get changed and players evolve their play to suit it.
Wasn't that long ago heavy armor was only for tanking and was useless even for that compared to medium builds according to many complaints from PLAYERS across these very forums.
You mean complaints from YOU. Not PLAYERS.
I hope it goes in, full 8% boost on the staff with frags and curse. We already have that today with dual wield and empower, putting it on a staff makes zero difference.
Most of all, next patch we're going to need the 'burst' to deal with ice staff block builds, especially on a Magplar. Blocking that takes magicka
Breath of life
Minor magicka steal debuff on everyone.
2 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hippie_Einstein wrote: »If you have any honor remaining, please revert this change.
No honor among thieves. They will clearly break one of our core abilities with no answer as to why or who asked for this. These patches wouldn't be so bad if they gave us a reason as to why or who wants them or maybe worked with the community to find balance. I'm really curious what made this decision go through because no one complained about vc. Forum checking shows everyone is majority in agreement procs shouldn't stack 3 high, heavy armor needs nerf, and light armor needs buff but not a single one of those touched? Really? And they have the audacity to call this a "balance" when those 3 have been rampant for months. Feels like ZOS giving us all a big finger saying they do whatever they want to make money, *** the players... With sorc it feels like we're ZOS's one night stand. Constantly getting *** without a simple call back or explanation
No one complained about VC
however lotsa PLAYERS complained about high burst short duration fights in PVP, lotsa PLAYERS complained about staff v dw spell damage, lotsa PLAYERS complained about the sustained damage shortfall between magica compared to stamina etc and other related issues which make toning down some of the higher burst combos (while buffing overall dps for non-dw mag) all of which tie into needing to reduce the strength of the SBT (sorc burst trinity) in conjunction with the other changes.
i think we will likely see it altered in PTS3, a dot or other type of option, but keeping the SBT as it was plus the 8% boost to frags and VC adding in with the staff really aint gonna happen in a tone-down-burst balance patch.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics applies.
Every major patch some previous builds/metas/sequences get changed and players evolve their play to suit it.
Wasn't that long ago heavy armor was only for tanking and was useless even for that compared to medium builds according to many complaints from PLAYERS across these very forums.
You mean complaints from YOU. Not PLAYERS.
I hope it goes in, full 8% boost on the staff with frags and curse. We already have that today with dual wield and empower, putting it on a staff makes zero difference.
Most of all, next patch we're going to need the 'burst' to deal with ice staff block builds, especially on a Magplar. Blocking that takes magicka
Breath of life
Minor magicka steal debuff on everyone.
That is so hilarious.
Really it is.
Just rib hurting bust a gut funny cuz frankly i did not comlain about burst or hvy v med or those others. I dont mind things getting closer and the back and forth ebb and flow doesnt rattle me.
So, no, its not been me before the VC pts chg complaining about high burst and proc sets - i coined the term recap sets for them. Not been me leading the lower burst charge.
Maybe, next time, you wanna research before claim.
Nah, that wouldnt be as much fun.
Edited by STEVIL on January 11, 2017 2:37AMProudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Hippie_Einstein✭✭✭All these changes do is make meta more dominant than it already was. VC is core for sorc rotation and has never been a problem. 12s until recast is boring. Being forced into less playstyle choices is boring. There are far better ways to go about balance. You talk about burst like this VC change will stop people from destro ulting or killing from stealth. Does nothing to help that. Nor address viper stacked with other sets or proccing twice from DW. There's a lot of issues, this does not help in a PvP aspect when magsorcs are about burst and survivability. Sorcs need burst against heavy armor. No fix to heavy armor or buff to light armor=/=giving less burst.Edited by Hippie_Einstein on January 11, 2017 7:00AMKnown as BrockTheTrainer on xb1. Aldemeri Gang. 1v1 me on azura of haderus ;D4 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hippie_Einstein wrote: »If you have any honor remaining, please revert this change.
No honor among thieves. They will clearly break one of our core abilities with no answer as to why or who asked for this. These patches wouldn't be so bad if they gave us a reason as to why or who wants them or maybe worked with the community to find balance. I'm really curious what made this decision go through because no one complained about vc. Forum checking shows everyone is majority in agreement procs shouldn't stack 3 high, heavy armor needs nerf, and light armor needs buff but not a single one of those touched? Really? And they have the audacity to call this a "balance" when those 3 have been rampant for months. Feels like ZOS giving us all a big finger saying they do whatever they want to make money, *** the players... With sorc it feels like we're ZOS's one night stand. Constantly getting *** without a simple call back or explanation
No one complained about VC
however lotsa PLAYERS complained about high burst short duration fights in PVP, lotsa PLAYERS complained about staff v dw spell damage, lotsa PLAYERS complained about the sustained damage shortfall between magica compared to stamina etc and other related issues which make toning down some of the higher burst combos (while buffing overall dps for non-dw mag) all of which tie into needing to reduce the strength of the SBT (sorc burst trinity) in conjunction with the other changes.
i think we will likely see it altered in PTS3, a dot or other type of option, but keeping the SBT as it was plus the 8% boost to frags and VC adding in with the staff really aint gonna happen in a tone-down-burst balance patch.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics applies.
Every major patch some previous builds/metas/sequences get changed and players evolve their play to suit it.
Wasn't that long ago heavy armor was only for tanking and was useless even for that compared to medium builds according to many complaints from PLAYERS across these very forums.
You mean complaints from YOU. Not PLAYERS.
I hope it goes in, full 8% boost on the staff with frags and curse. We already have that today with dual wield and empower, putting it on a staff makes zero difference.
Most of all, next patch we're going to need the 'burst' to deal with ice staff block builds, especially on a Magplar. Blocking that takes magicka
Breath of life
Minor magicka steal debuff on everyone.
That is so hilarious.
Really it is.
Just rib hurting bust a gut funny cuz frankly i did not comlain about burst or hvy v med or those others. I dont mind things getting closer and the back and forth ebb and flow doesnt rattle me.
So, no, its not been me before the VC pts chg complaining about high burst and proc sets - i coined the term recap sets for them. Not been me leading the lower burst charge.
Maybe, next time, you wanna research before claim.
Nah, that wouldnt be as much fun.
You're the only one complaining about it. Stop pretending that this is your first whine post about burst in PVP.i confess to being curious how many of the "put VC back" supporters fall into::
1 - The "the high burst in PVP now is great" crowd
2 - The "high burst in PVP in the game now is bad but its all everyone else's burst, not mine" crowd.
3 - Other?
Still laughing? Oh I see your sarcastic loaded choice here is just 'wondering' is it?Edited by Minalan on January 11, 2017 7:57AM2 -
Natas013✭✭✭Pretty smart, take another thing away from us just to give in and give it back in hopes that it'll detract from the main underlying issue that mag sorc is still a broken class.
Streak needs fatigue removed or at least reduced if targets are damaged/stunned.
BoL needs the same if targets are stunned or projectiles absorbed.
Shields need looking at, either a cost reduction, duration increase, or a rework in functionality. Empowering should give minor force or something else that increases damage. Also if you're stuck on this echo thing give it to hardened. Something like taking away the extra size of the shield and applying half the initial shields strength after 6 seconds. Even at 15% major evasion still potentially blocks more damage than our shields.
Overload is a gimmick ulti, and it's usefulness has been cut in half. It's clunky, buggy, and the main reason we can't have nice things (like toggle free abilities). Replace it with something, I don't care if it's a low cost single target or another high cost aoe, let's just be done with this ability.
Daedric Summoning is a garbage tree. Most of the passives are highly situational, the ulti is a joke, and most of the skills are toggles. Please fix it or move and replace it.
Furthermore, you seem to be of mind that sorcs don't deserve a class spamable like DK don't deserve an execute. If this is the case then come out and own it. I think both stances are wrong and narrow minded, DK execute should be a passive increase to DoT in execute range and we deserve a class spamable.RIP Ellania Delome
June 9, 2015-June 14, 2016
A skilled crafter, competent sorcerer, and denizen of the night
Along came the Dark Brotherhood and summarily ended it all10 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Another Change I keep forgetting:
Mage guild skills should only empower *magicka* abilities.
Stam users regularly use it to empower things like incap strike for quick ganks, and they really don't need it.
The change would let magicka nightblades keep using it of course. It's our skill line damnit, not theirs.6 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hippie_Einstein wrote: »If you have any honor remaining, please revert this change.
No honor among thieves. They will clearly break one of our core abilities with no answer as to why or who asked for this. These patches wouldn't be so bad if they gave us a reason as to why or who wants them or maybe worked with the community to find balance. I'm really curious what made this decision go through because no one complained about vc. Forum checking shows everyone is majority in agreement procs shouldn't stack 3 high, heavy armor needs nerf, and light armor needs buff but not a single one of those touched? Really? And they have the audacity to call this a "balance" when those 3 have been rampant for months. Feels like ZOS giving us all a big finger saying they do whatever they want to make money, *** the players... With sorc it feels like we're ZOS's one night stand. Constantly getting *** without a simple call back or explanation
No one complained about VC
however lotsa PLAYERS complained about high burst short duration fights in PVP, lotsa PLAYERS complained about staff v dw spell damage, lotsa PLAYERS complained about the sustained damage shortfall between magica compared to stamina etc and other related issues which make toning down some of the higher burst combos (while buffing overall dps for non-dw mag) all of which tie into needing to reduce the strength of the SBT (sorc burst trinity) in conjunction with the other changes.
i think we will likely see it altered in PTS3, a dot or other type of option, but keeping the SBT as it was plus the 8% boost to frags and VC adding in with the staff really aint gonna happen in a tone-down-burst balance patch.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics applies.
Every major patch some previous builds/metas/sequences get changed and players evolve their play to suit it.
Wasn't that long ago heavy armor was only for tanking and was useless even for that compared to medium builds according to many complaints from PLAYERS across these very forums.
You mean complaints from YOU. Not PLAYERS.
I hope it goes in, full 8% boost on the staff with frags and curse. We already have that today with dual wield and empower, putting it on a staff makes zero difference.
Most of all, next patch we're going to need the 'burst' to deal with ice staff block builds, especially on a Magplar. Blocking that takes magicka
Breath of life
Minor magicka steal debuff on everyone.
That is so hilarious.
Really it is.
Just rib hurting bust a gut funny cuz frankly i did not comlain about burst or hvy v med or those others. I dont mind things getting closer and the back and forth ebb and flow doesnt rattle me.
So, no, its not been me before the VC pts chg complaining about high burst and proc sets - i coined the term recap sets for them. Not been me leading the lower burst charge.
Maybe, next time, you wanna research before claim.
Nah, that wouldnt be as much fun.
You're the only one complaining about it. Stop pretending that this is your first whine post about burst in PVP.i confess to being curious how many of the "put VC back" supporters fall into::
1 - The "the high burst in PVP now is great" crowd
2 - The "high burst in PVP in the game now is bad but its all everyone else's burst, not mine" crowd.
3 - Other?
Still laughing? Oh I see your sarcastic loaded choice here is just 'wondering' is it?
you really need to try reading slower or something - helps comprehension.
look at the chain here to see what i mean:
1 - @Tyrobag questioned how the decision to change VC could have gone thru "because no one complained about vc. " which is clearly (for those who can read their way out of a milk carton) referencing complaints about VC before the change was made, not after the change was made.
2 - @Stevil responds clarifying that there might not have been VC specific complaints but there were complaints which led to the change - one of which was burst pvp - again referencing the period of time before the change was made and complaints made then - the subject @Tyrobag commented on and @Stevil quoted.
3 - @Minalan armed with Reading Comprehension at level 50, jumps in claiming it was @STEVIL il not other players who had made the complaints. That was the first major fail at reading what was being said or first major fail at rebranding what was being said - take your pick.
4 - @Stevil even points out in his response to @Minalan "So, no, its not been me before the VC pts chg complaining about high burst and proc sets - " (bold now for emphasis) the context of complaints before the change, complaints leading towards the decision, etc.
5 - But @Minalan undeterred jumps again into the fray quoting from a "put vc back" post of @Stevil as if somehow posts made after the VC change and PTS refute claims about posts leading up to the decision to change it for PTS in the first place.
So, @Minalan, to answer your specific question - yes i am still laughing.
let me be very clear - again -
i was not one of the bandwagon riders on the "nerf pvp burst" express trainseries of posts that fed into the decision that "pvp burst" was a problem that needed to be looked at and which likely resulted in part of the decision to change VC as the PTS shows. More often than not, in that period, i referred to the "pvp burst issue" as another First Law issue - pointing out the massive contribution to damage (burst and otherwise) sets have provided all along just not showing their additions on the recap screens for easy imaging.
So, any attempts to paint me as the only person complaining about PVP burst misses on two counts - first lotsa folks did other than me and second - i wasn't the one complaining about it to lead them to the choice (tho i can understand why they made the call.)
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hippie_Einstein wrote: »All these changes do is make meta more dominant than it already was. VC is core for sorc rotation and has never been a problem. 12s until recast is boring. Being forced into less playstyle choices is boring. There are far better ways to go about balance. You talk about burst like this VC change will stop people from destro ulting or killing from stealth. Does nothing to help that. Nor address viper stacked with other sets or proccing twice from DW. There's a lot of issues, this does not help in a PvP aspect when magsorcs are about burst and survivability. Sorcs need burst against heavy armor. No fix to heavy armor or buff to light armor=/=giving less burst.
RE the bold - honestly, if you look back at the forums you will see that a lot of the more strident fevered complaints are easily seen as "the meta i use is being replaced by this new one" (my First law of Nerf-o-Dynamics" and any changes that "address" those issues by their very nature will be a "move back to the old meta" kind of thing.
but really, its a question of which "meta" you are referring to?
A lot of the complaints hinge around survivability of hvy armor - which kicked the old "max offense medium/light" metas in their privates after TG iirc. The hvy could survive the high offense in some builds. old meta down, must complain.
A lot of the complaints shifted to burst (and also burst-hvy) when pvp burst became high enough that the old meta of "max offense medium/light" was killable with burst even if well constructed with frequently not getting a shot off. See many many "killed by no skill" threads and posts over the months since !t and some even before then.
All of which adds up to no way in heck ZOS would be working to RAISE burst on any high burst class-combos, esp ones with current streams and vids talking about the particular combo being so effective at prodcing foe-killing burst.
You are right, the VC change wont solve everything but if they had raised burst for sorc (8% boost plus the old VC) while reducing burst for many others it would not have made for better balance.
The specific change they made reduces sorc burst for magsorcs AND raises sorc sustain DPS narrowly (doesn't lower it) though obviously both of those "depend on build and rotation". That general change makes a lot of sense in the context of this patch.
As for Vipers procs, SAKs, hvy armor etc - there are changes dealing with those or some of those already in and they have said clearly more changes are coming in PTS 3 that this was not the sum of the areas they were targeting.
But really "leave our burst alone" while they work to tone down burst for most everyone else who hit high burst, thats definitely a primo example of the first Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Another Change I keep forgetting:
Mage guild skills should only empower *magicka* abilities.
Stam users regularly use it to empower things like incap strike for quick ganks, and they really don't need it.
The change would let magicka nightblades keep using it of course. It's our skill line damnit, not theirs.
Should that fighter's guild trap that gives the force buff (iirc) also not count for magica skills/attacks then if your suggestion goes thru? i mean there are example cited of folks running magica and running that skill for the force buff.
I mean, after all "its their skill line damnit, not ours."
goose, gander and all that.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Another Change I keep forgetting:
Mage guild skills should only empower *magicka* abilities.
Stam users regularly use it to empower things like incap strike for quick ganks, and they really don't need it.
The change would let magicka nightblades keep using it of course. It's our skill line damnit, not theirs.
Should that fighter's guild trap that gives the force buff (iirc) also not count for magica skills/attacks then if your suggestion goes thru? i mean there are example cited of folks running magica and running that skill for the force buff.
I mean, after all "its their skill line damnit, not ours."
goose, gander and all that.
Fair enough, it probably shouldn't. It's not like we benefit from anything else in that tree save a couple of passives for ultimate generation when killing daedra.
0 -
Minalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hippie_Einstein wrote: »All these changes do is make meta more dominant than it already was. VC is core for sorc rotation and has never been a problem. 12s until recast is boring. Being forced into less playstyle choices is boring. There are far better ways to go about balance. You talk about burst like this VC change will stop people from destro ulting or killing from stealth. Does nothing to help that. Nor address viper stacked with other sets or proccing twice from DW. There's a lot of issues, this does not help in a PvP aspect when magsorcs are about burst and survivability. Sorcs need burst against heavy armor. No fix to heavy armor or buff to light armor=/=giving less burst.
RE the bold - honestly, if you look back at the forums you will see that a lot of the more strident fevered complaints are easily seen as "the meta i use is being replaced by this new one" (my First law of Nerf-o-Dynamics" and any changes that "address" those issues by their very nature will be a "move back to the old meta" kind of thing.
but really, its a question of which "meta" you are referring to?
A lot of the complaints hinge around survivability of hvy armor - which kicked the old "max offense medium/light" metas in their privates after TG iirc. The hvy could survive the high offense in some builds. old meta down, must complain.
A lot of the complaints shifted to burst (and also burst-hvy) when pvp burst became high enough that the old meta of "max offense medium/light" was killable with burst even if well constructed with frequently not getting a shot off. See many many "killed by no skill" threads and posts over the months since !t and some even before then.
All of which adds up to no way in heck ZOS would be working to RAISE burst on any high burst class-combos, esp ones with current streams and vids talking about the particular combo being so effective at prodcing foe-killing burst.
You are right, the VC change wont solve everything but if they had raised burst for sorc (8% boost plus the old VC) while reducing burst for many others it would not have made for better balance.
The specific change they made reduces sorc burst for magsorcs AND raises sorc sustain DPS narrowly (doesn't lower it) though obviously both of those "depend on build and rotation". That general change makes a lot of sense in the context of this patch.
As for Vipers procs, SAKs, hvy armor etc - there are changes dealing with those or some of those already in and they have said clearly more changes are coming in PTS 3 that this was not the sum of the areas they were targeting.
But really "leave our burst alone" while they work to tone down burst for most everyone else who hit high burst, thats definitely a primo example of the first Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics.
I think, people have a problem with heavy armor tank builds having burst. Heavy armor stamina tank builds have it all. They get Healing, tanking, burst damage, and then amazing sprint/rapids mobility on top of that. The complaints I hear are that you should only be able to do a couple of those at the same time, because there's little that they can't do better than most other builds.
Sorcs currently have mobility and damage as inherent advantages in the design of the class. Of course we'll resist taking the latter away, we have 10K resists in light armor, and we crutch on one resto ability to heal that usually goes to someone else nearby that needs it.0 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Hippie_Einstein wrote: »All these changes do is make meta more dominant than it already was. VC is core for sorc rotation and has never been a problem. 12s until recast is boring. Being forced into less playstyle choices is boring. There are far better ways to go about balance. You talk about burst like this VC change will stop people from destro ulting or killing from stealth. Does nothing to help that. Nor address viper stacked with other sets or proccing twice from DW. There's a lot of issues, this does not help in a PvP aspect when magsorcs are about burst and survivability. Sorcs need burst against heavy armor. No fix to heavy armor or buff to light armor=/=giving less burst.
RE the bold - honestly, if you look back at the forums you will see that a lot of the more strident fevered complaints are easily seen as "the meta i use is being replaced by this new one" (my First law of Nerf-o-Dynamics" and any changes that "address" those issues by their very nature will be a "move back to the old meta" kind of thing.
but really, its a question of which "meta" you are referring to?
A lot of the complaints hinge around survivability of hvy armor - which kicked the old "max offense medium/light" metas in their privates after TG iirc. The hvy could survive the high offense in some builds. old meta down, must complain.
A lot of the complaints shifted to burst (and also burst-hvy) when pvp burst became high enough that the old meta of "max offense medium/light" was killable with burst even if well constructed with frequently not getting a shot off. See many many "killed by no skill" threads and posts over the months since !t and some even before then.
All of which adds up to no way in heck ZOS would be working to RAISE burst on any high burst class-combos, esp ones with current streams and vids talking about the particular combo being so effective at prodcing foe-killing burst.
You are right, the VC change wont solve everything but if they had raised burst for sorc (8% boost plus the old VC) while reducing burst for many others it would not have made for better balance.
The specific change they made reduces sorc burst for magsorcs AND raises sorc sustain DPS narrowly (doesn't lower it) though obviously both of those "depend on build and rotation". That general change makes a lot of sense in the context of this patch.
As for Vipers procs, SAKs, hvy armor etc - there are changes dealing with those or some of those already in and they have said clearly more changes are coming in PTS 3 that this was not the sum of the areas they were targeting.
But really "leave our burst alone" while they work to tone down burst for most everyone else who hit high burst, thats definitely a primo example of the first Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics.
I think, people have a problem with heavy armor tank builds having burst. Heavy armor stamina tank builds have it all. They get Healing, tanking, burst damage, and then amazing sprint/rapids mobility on top of that. The complaints I hear are that you should only be able to do a couple of those at the same time, because there's little that they can't do better than most other builds.
Sorcs currently have mobility and damage as inherent advantages in the design of the class. Of course we'll resist taking the latter away, we have 10K resists in light armor, and we crutch on one resto ability to heal that usually goes to someone else nearby that needs it.
For me the way i would have gone after proc sets specifically is this:
Change the "damage\heal" to scale off the character stats as well as the gear so that you cannot have a hvy build getting all the survivability gains of hvy and not suffer from the loss of the med/light armor type damage buffs.
take swords - their "damage" varies by level and quality right?
But... damage you do with a sword attack - that also varies with your character's stats - specifically maxstam. Guy who dumps 64 health hits soften with the cp160 gold mace than guy who has 64 sta, right? Why not the same if that sword procs poison?
But proc set? Viper Sting is based only on gear level and quality - so i can dump 64 health and blammo - there you go. i get full damage and with an occasional light attack i can output full hits from viper every 4s.
So to me take viper, cut its damage in half but add in an additional damage element for like VAR*MAXSTA/10 (VAR equalsd some adjustment factor based on type of damage proc).
In many cases it seems sustained DPS favors non-proc builds. So IMo proc builds getting good or higher burst seems Ok in theory, but i would strongly question the wisdom of allowing full proc output on all-health hvy def builds.
DISCLAIMERS:
I know CP affect procs but they affect everything so it washes out.
Can also swap it for using character's SPLDAM/WPNDAM instead of maxmag or maxsta as another options. either can work better than total divorce from stat IMO.
There are certainly some effects which are divorced from character stats - enchantments and alchemical poisons of course but these aren't usual on the scale of proc sets and multi-proc sets.
i know some of the light and medium passives will still help procs - pen for one but asgain not on the scale of the procs damage or the normal contribution from maxmag or spldam.
Edited by STEVIL on January 11, 2017 5:15PMProudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
ZOS_GinaBrunoCommunity ManagerThanks for all the feedback everyone's provided so far! We have been reading, and we'll be making some tweaks to all classes in next week's PTS patch. Once we wrap everything up, we'll share our current plans for the Sorcerer later this week.11 -
Hippie_Einstein✭✭✭Fudge all these paragraphs. Honestly. Either you're with the nerf or not. Getting upset about burst as if this one thing alone will do anything. May I remind you this does nothing to stop NB burst or heavy armor burst so no logic to be had nor can you convince most of us that this is a balance. If burst was an issue they saw with VC they could have toned down the damage. Instead you're trying to justify a complete change which makes rotation boring and pretty much forces us into destro meta and unappealing playstyles. This nerf will only make people switch classes. Will do nothing for burst you whine about. Btw how do you kill a heavy armor user who has heals up or blocks up 24/7 without burst? You don't lol you run out of sustain then get merked because sorcs have always been about bursting and getting out. Do you even sorc bruh?Edited by Hippie_Einstein on January 11, 2017 9:18PMKnown as BrockTheTrainer on xb1. Aldemeri Gang. 1v1 me on azura of haderus ;D3
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Hippie_Einstein✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks for all the feedback everyone's provided so far! We have been reading, and we'll be making some tweaks to all classes in next week's PTS patch. Once we wrap everything up, we'll share our current plans for the Sorcerer later this week.
Thank you for finally acknowledging us
Known as BrockTheTrainer on xb1. Aldemeri Gang. 1v1 me on azura of haderus ;D1 -
psychotic13✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks for all the feedback everyone's provided so far! We have been reading, and we'll be making some tweaks to all classes in next week's PTS patch. Once we wrap everything up, we'll share our current plans for the Sorcerer later this week.
Buff light Armor!4 -
LendillSoul ShrivenSeriously please give my Magsorc the velicious curse back
.
It is a main part of my rota, makes playing a sorc interesting and fun. I really don´t wanna wait 12 seconds to recast it and spam force pulse during the whole time. So please change it back. And there was not reason for the 500 ultimate cap ..3 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭You are right, the VC change wont solve everything but if they had raised burst for sorc (8% boost plus the old VC) while reducing burst for many others it would not have made for better balance.
Yes. Yes, it would. Because burst is still msndatory in PvP, especially with all the heavy armor healers. Stamina still has higher burst and it's easier to execute. Sorc burst is absolutely easy to predict and doesn't hurt enough. This is why people expected a buff and yet, received a nerf.2 -
Zarrakon✭✭✭I'm probably in the minority, but I love Haunting Curse. The double explosion is really satisfying, and it's nice to not have to keep casting it every few seconds (I can focus on maintaining other spells instead).0
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Twohothardware✭✭✭✭✭
✭I'm probably in the minority, but I love Haunting Curse. The double explosion is really satisfying, and it's nice to not have to keep casting it every few seconds (I can focus on maintaining other spells instead).
What other spells are you maintaining in PvP more now with Haunting Curse?0 -
TheHsN✭✭✭✭✭
✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks for all the feedback everyone's provided so far! We have been reading, and we'll be making some tweaks to all classes in next week's PTS patch. Once we wrap everything up, we'll share our current plans for the Sorcerer later this week.
Maybe like this you can see people thoughts and act right move for all of us before the patch comes live...And we all play with FUN
We all want this game be better...Cuz We love it
-Velicious Curse Revert
-Light Armor Toning Up
-No Penalty to streak - Cuz non of other classes Gap closers HAS IT
-More damage for our finisher MAGEs Wrath it is the weakest one as finisher
-Dont Destroy DW SORC or give us lost SD from some other Passives
-Shields 10 or 12 secs or make Evesion 6 seconds to make balance between Stam and Magicka...6 secs for shields Destroy Sustain...
-Magicka COST for skills Should be little reduced to compare again with stamina( I even dont need to use Potion for stamina)
- 500 cap for Ultimate REALLY pls dont ...It is nothing about balance or need
If u wanna make Rotation easier for new Players:
- Make Blokade 12 secs
- Make Liquid Lighting 12 secs
- Make boundless Storm 24 or 36 Seconds
It will help new Players for rotation and dont mess with Balance in PVP or PVE and no mess with skills ALSO:)...And it helps for sustain tho... who cant control their source as a new player...
Thank you.
Edited by TheHsN on January 12, 2017 1:51PMPlays:
Magicka SORC - PvE/PvP
Stamina NB - PvE/PvP
Magicka NB - PvE/PvP
Magicka Templar - PvE
Stamina Templar - PvP
Magicka DK - PvE
Stamina DK - PvE7 -
Bartdude✭✭✭Looks to me like this "simplifying" of the game is to try and turn the game into a Platform Shooter! Please Zos don't change things that don't need changing, I think it's very clear from the responses here that no one wants them.
After all the time I've spent to get my Magsorc to where he is, with these changes i'll prolly shelve him!"No *** lady! does it sound like I'm ordering pizza?"1 -
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks for all the feedback everyone's provided so far! We have been reading, and we'll be making some tweaks to all classes in next week's PTS patch. Once we wrap everything up, we'll share our current plans for the Sorcerer later this week.
Can u PLS do this for all classes... Maybe like this you can see people thoughts and act right move for all of us before the patch comes live...And we all play with FUN
We all want this game be better...Cuz We love it
-Velicious Curse Revert
-Light Armor Toning Up
-No Penalty to streak - Cuz non of other classes Gap closers HAS IT
-More damage for our finisher MAGEs Wrath it is the weakest one as finisher
-Dont Destroy DW SORC or give us lost SD from some other Passives
-Shields 10 or 12 secs or make Evesion 6 seconds to make balance between Stam and Magicka...6 secs for shields Destroy Sustain...
-Magicka COST for skills Should be little reduced to compare again with stamina( I even dont need to use Potion for stamina)
- 500 cap for Ultimate REALLY pls dont ...It is nothing about balance or need
If u wanna make Rotation easier for new Players:
- Make Blokade 12 secs
- Make Liquid Lighting 12 secs
- Make boundless Storm 24 or 36 Seconds
It will help new Players for rotation and dont mess with Balance in PVP or PVE and no mess with skills ALSO:)...
Thank you.
Lol she did post in each of the classes discussion with the same response except with the pertinent class name where sorcerer is, so don't think that sorcs are somehow special. Maybe start reading ALL the class changes to get some perspective on how everyone is feeling about the changes coming to the game. (Hint, every class is garbage and the changes make no sense- literally everyone in each of the class threads)Edited by Lightspeedflashb14_ESO on January 12, 2017 9:37AM0 -
Izaki✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks for all the feedback everyone's provided so far! We have been reading, and we'll be making some tweaks to all classes in next week's PTS patch. Once we wrap everything up, we'll share our current plans for the Sorcerer later this week.
OMG! Netch poots hype. O. M. G.@ Izaki #PCEU
#FrenchKiss #GoneFor2YearsAndMyGuildDoesn'tRaidAnymore
#MoreDPSthanYou
#Stamblade0 -
jhharvest✭✭✭I've been on hiatus from ESO. I thought this patch was supposed to be a balance patch.
Then I read the sorc changes. LEL.
I guess I'll check back in 3 months.4 -
STEVIL✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks for all the feedback everyone's provided so far! We have been reading, and we'll be making some tweaks to all classes in next week's PTS patch. Once we wrap everything up, we'll share our current plans for the Sorcerer later this week.
Can u PLS do this for all classes... Maybe like this you can see people thoughts and act right move for all of us before the patch comes live...And we all play with FUN
We all want this game be better...Cuz We love it
-Velicious Curse Revert
-Light Armor Toning Up
-No Penalty to streak - Cuz non of other classes Gap closers HAS IT
-More damage for our finisher MAGEs Wrath it is the weakest one as finisher
-Dont Destroy DW SORC or give us lost SD from some other Passives
-Shields 10 or 12 secs or make Evesion 6 seconds to make balance between Stam and Magicka...6 secs for shields Destroy Sustain...
-Magicka COST for skills Should be little reduced to compare again with stamina( I even dont need to use Potion for stamina)
- 500 cap for Ultimate REALLY pls dont ...It is nothing about balance or need
If u wanna make Rotation easier for new Players:
- Make Blokade 12 secs
- Make Liquid Lighting 12 secs
- Make boundless Storm 24 or 36 Seconds
It will help new Players for rotation and dont mess with Balance in PVP or PVE and no mess with skills ALSO:)...
Thank you.
Lol she did post in each of the classes discussion with the same response except with the pertinent class name where sorcerer is, so don't think that sorcs are somehow special. Maybe start reading ALL the class changes to get some perspective on how everyone is feeling about the changes coming to the game. (Hint, every class is garbage and the changes make no sense- literally everyone in each of the class threads)
That is actually quite good news in fact.
Proudly skooma free while talks-when-drunk is in mandatory public housing.
YFMV Your Fun May Vary.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics
"The good way I used to get good kills *with good skill* was good but the way others kill me now is bad."0 -
Sweetpea704✭✭✭✭i agree shield length should be increased, maybe not back to 20sec but 6 is too short making it hard to maintain and and a magic burner. Why is curse getting a nerf?
Yes, this is a huge problem in pvp, because the Stam nightblades use pots that drain your magicka and then you basically can' t put your shield up. In the name of balance, why don't you give mag toons the equivalent of that freaking absorb magicka, which is making the dk's freaking unkillable.0 -
ulrik_74Soul ShrivenHurricane ability:
The ability was a bit too powerful, however it was part of a very limited skill toolset for the stamina sorcerer. Every Stamina sorcerer was running with the same skill setup and they were very good in AOE, to the detriment of Single target.
It would be very good to have an class ability for single target, especially since rearming traps was diminished.
Again good job! Just need to have a little push for single target and Stam sorcerer would be 100% balanced!!!
Merci!
Ulrik_740 -
Thornen✭✭✭✭✭Sweetpea704 wrote: »i agree shield length should be increased, maybe not back to 20sec but 6 is too short making it hard to maintain and and a magic burner. Why is curse getting a nerf?
Yes, this is a huge problem in pvp, because the Stam nightblades use pots that drain your magicka and then you basically can' t put your shield up. In the name of balance, why don't you give mag toons the equivalent of that freaking absorb magicka, which is making the dk's freaking unkillable.
All classes have access to absorb magicka....0