PTS Feedback Thread for Sorcerer Balance Improvements

Derra

Has anyone of the DW experts tested how Nirn mainhand sharpened offhand compares to double sharpened for DW sorc setups?

I´ve never seen anyone talk about that.

Minalan

psychotic13 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

So now with the dual wield nerf and destro staff buff, there's zero reason to use dual wield:

* Increased the Dual Wield Weapon and Spell Damage penalty by roughly 3%. Weapon and Spell Damage while Dual Wielding (without modifiers) is now equal to using a Two Handed weapon.

Now you have to weigh the one extra set piece and 5% extra damage (single target and AOE) against 8% single target damage AND being able to use fire heavy attacks (which is kind of big with the 20% damage bonus to well... almost everyone)

DW still gives more spell damage though?

It gives exactly as much as a 2H weapon, which I think is slightly higher than a staff. The 8% bonus however should make up for that.

I'll have to look at it tonight.

iirc gold staff gives 1335 and gold 2h gives 1561. Someone put a screenshot up of difference in another thread you lose like 50 SD which isn't much

I think they said they nerfed the penalty by 3%, as of now on live the second sword gives 20% of its damage towards your stats, while now it gives 17%.

So 20% of 1335 is 267, so gold DW would give 1602
Now at 17% it would give 226.9 so DW gives 1562

So the comparison between DW and Destro is:

Destro
- +8% on single target damage
- Ability to weave and use destro abilities and other passives

DW
- +5% to all damage
- 226.9 spell damage
- Access to run 5/5/2

DW will still be superior at bursting, which is what makes it strong in pvp

You can still do 5/5/2 on a staff build if you're running something like warlock or Lich. But yeah, I see your point. 227 SD is better than some five piece bonuses. However it's not as good as using a spell damage glyph, or a maelstrom staff. Swords can't light attack at range and won't benefit from that.

HOWEVER! I disagree that it'll be 'superior' at bursting given some of the BSW builds I've seen. That set bonus is worth something like 720 SD buffed, it procs constantly, and the uptime is insane. You end up with orange hands more often than you don't. That's not counting the roughly 400 SD buffed that you get from landing a light attack from the spell damage glyph.

With over 1100 spell damage bonus and 8% single target damage bonus, I'd hate to be on the other side of that for the short window. That should hit just as hard if not harder than DW.

psychotic13

Minalan wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

So now with the dual wield nerf and destro staff buff, there's zero reason to use dual wield:

* Increased the Dual Wield Weapon and Spell Damage penalty by roughly 3%. Weapon and Spell Damage while Dual Wielding (without modifiers) is now equal to using a Two Handed weapon.

Now you have to weigh the one extra set piece and 5% extra damage (single target and AOE) against 8% single target damage AND being able to use fire heavy attacks (which is kind of big with the 20% damage bonus to well... almost everyone)

DW still gives more spell damage though?

It gives exactly as much as a 2H weapon, which I think is slightly higher than a staff. The 8% bonus however should make up for that.

I'll have to look at it tonight.

iirc gold staff gives 1335 and gold 2h gives 1561. Someone put a screenshot up of difference in another thread you lose like 50 SD which isn't much

I think they said they nerfed the penalty by 3%, as of now on live the second sword gives 20% of its damage towards your stats, while now it gives 17%.

So 20% of 1335 is 267, so gold DW would give 1602
Now at 17% it would give 226.9 so DW gives 1562

So the comparison between DW and Destro is:

Destro
- +8% on single target damage
- Ability to weave and use destro abilities and other passives

DW
- +5% to all damage
- 226.9 spell damage
- Access to run 5/5/2

DW will still be superior at bursting, which is what makes it strong in pvp

You can still do 5/5/2 on a staff build if you're running something like warlock or Lich. But yeah, I see your point. 227 SD is better than some five piece bonuses.

HOWEVER! I disagree that it'll be 'superior' at bursting given some of the BSW builds I've seen. That set bonus is worth something like 720 SD buffed, it procs constantly, and the uptime is insane. You end up with orange hands more often than you don't. That's not counting the roughly 400 SD buffed that you get from landing a light attack from the spell damage glyph.

With over 1100 spell damage bonus and 8% single target damage bonus, I'd hate to be on the other side of that for the short window. That should hit just as hard if not harder than DW.

Well I'm talking in general, some builds like you say can still utilise 5/5/2 like lich and alchemist. BSW is a great set I agree but you can't compare the spell damage from DW and the 5pc of BSW without taking the 5pc your using on DW into account, for example the 5pc of Necropotence im using gives 4K magicka, and as long as my pets active I have a 100% uptime on that.

Both DW and Destro play styles are different I think it comes down to what you feel most comfortable with, burst or constant pressure.

Minalan

psychotic13 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

So now with the dual wield nerf and destro staff buff, there's zero reason to use dual wield:

* Increased the Dual Wield Weapon and Spell Damage penalty by roughly 3%. Weapon and Spell Damage while Dual Wielding (without modifiers) is now equal to using a Two Handed weapon.

Now you have to weigh the one extra set piece and 5% extra damage (single target and AOE) against 8% single target damage AND being able to use fire heavy attacks (which is kind of big with the 20% damage bonus to well... almost everyone)

DW still gives more spell damage though?

It gives exactly as much as a 2H weapon, which I think is slightly higher than a staff. The 8% bonus however should make up for that.

I'll have to look at it tonight.

iirc gold staff gives 1335 and gold 2h gives 1561. Someone put a screenshot up of difference in another thread you lose like 50 SD which isn't much

I think they said they nerfed the penalty by 3%, as of now on live the second sword gives 20% of its damage towards your stats, while now it gives 17%.

So 20% of 1335 is 267, so gold DW would give 1602
Now at 17% it would give 226.9 so DW gives 1562

So the comparison between DW and Destro is:

Destro
- +8% on single target damage
- Ability to weave and use destro abilities and other passives

DW
- +5% to all damage
- 226.9 spell damage
- Access to run 5/5/2

DW will still be superior at bursting, which is what makes it strong in pvp

You can still do 5/5/2 on a staff build if you're running something like warlock or Lich. But yeah, I see your point. 227 SD is better than some five piece bonuses.

HOWEVER! I disagree that it'll be 'superior' at bursting given some of the BSW builds I've seen. That set bonus is worth something like 720 SD buffed, it procs constantly, and the uptime is insane. You end up with orange hands more often than you don't. That's not counting the roughly 400 SD buffed that you get from landing a light attack from the spell damage glyph.

With over 1100 spell damage bonus and 8% single target damage bonus, I'd hate to be on the other side of that for the short window. That should hit just as hard if not harder than DW.

Well I'm talking in general, some builds like you say can still utilise 5/5/2 like lich and alchemist. BSW is a great set I agree but you can't compare the spell damage from DW and the 5pc of BSW without taking the 5pc your using on DW into account, for example the 5pc of Necropotence im using gives 4K magicka, and as long as my pets active I have a 100% uptime on that.

Both DW and Destro play styles are different I think it comes down to what you feel most comfortable with, burst or constant pressure.

I think weapon damage glyphs even it out though, the damage bonus of DW is less than staff when you hit with a light or heavy attack. If you line up burst behind a 9-12K fire heavy. You're going to kill people just fine.

The only thing I hate about a staff build: I have no room for mines except on the OL bar. DW setup I get mines but no force

RebornV3x

Sadly all of these changes will go live if over 60+ pages of feedback regarding sorc shield duration went unheard I really don't think there is anything we can do but accept these changes and adapt or pray for a class change token in the future.

I don't like some of these changes to sorc but they didn't listen last time there was a major change to sorc skills.

I wonder why Zos makes these threads when they don't even consider any of the feedback is it too make us feel good?

psychotic13

Minalan wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

psychotic13 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

So now with the dual wield nerf and destro staff buff, there's zero reason to use dual wield:

* Increased the Dual Wield Weapon and Spell Damage penalty by roughly 3%. Weapon and Spell Damage while Dual Wielding (without modifiers) is now equal to using a Two Handed weapon.

Now you have to weigh the one extra set piece and 5% extra damage (single target and AOE) against 8% single target damage AND being able to use fire heavy attacks (which is kind of big with the 20% damage bonus to well... almost everyone)

DW still gives more spell damage though?

It gives exactly as much as a 2H weapon, which I think is slightly higher than a staff. The 8% bonus however should make up for that.

I'll have to look at it tonight.

iirc gold staff gives 1335 and gold 2h gives 1561. Someone put a screenshot up of difference in another thread you lose like 50 SD which isn't much

I think they said they nerfed the penalty by 3%, as of now on live the second sword gives 20% of its damage towards your stats, while now it gives 17%.

So 20% of 1335 is 267, so gold DW would give 1602
Now at 17% it would give 226.9 so DW gives 1562

So the comparison between DW and Destro is:

Destro
- +8% on single target damage
- Ability to weave and use destro abilities and other passives

DW
- +5% to all damage
- 226.9 spell damage
- Access to run 5/5/2

DW will still be superior at bursting, which is what makes it strong in pvp

You can still do 5/5/2 on a staff build if you're running something like warlock or Lich. But yeah, I see your point. 227 SD is better than some five piece bonuses.

HOWEVER! I disagree that it'll be 'superior' at bursting given some of the BSW builds I've seen. That set bonus is worth something like 720 SD buffed, it procs constantly, and the uptime is insane. You end up with orange hands more often than you don't. That's not counting the roughly 400 SD buffed that you get from landing a light attack from the spell damage glyph.

With over 1100 spell damage bonus and 8% single target damage bonus, I'd hate to be on the other side of that for the short window. That should hit just as hard if not harder than DW.

Well I'm talking in general, some builds like you say can still utilise 5/5/2 like lich and alchemist. BSW is a great set I agree but you can't compare the spell damage from DW and the 5pc of BSW without taking the 5pc your using on DW into account, for example the 5pc of Necropotence im using gives 4K magicka, and as long as my pets active I have a 100% uptime on that.

Both DW and Destro play styles are different I think it comes down to what you feel most comfortable with, burst or constant pressure.

I think weapon damage glyphs even it out though, the damage bonus of DW is less than staff when you hit with a light or heavy attack. If you line up burst behind a 9-12K fire heavy. You're going to kill people just fine.

The only thing I hate about a staff build: I have no room for mines except on the OL bar. DW setup I get mines but no force

Weapon damage glyphs? You can use that on DW too, I run it on the resto and weave light attacks in. I agree it's still easy to kill with the destro, I just sustain a lot better with DW. I normally only run mines on the OL bar even on DW I use combat prayer for the minor berserk to increase my burst.

RebornV3x wrote: »

Sadly all of these changes will go live if over 60+ pages of feedback regarding sorc shield duration went unheard I really don't think there is anything we can do but accept these changes and adapt or pray for a class change token in the future.

I don't like some of these changes to sorc but they didn't listen last time there was a major change to sorc skills.

I wonder why Zos makes these threads when they don't even consider any of the feedback is it too make us feel good?

Nothing wrong with shields man, sorcs got buffed with annulment change, I used to think the same but sorcs are a lot better now I think.

Beardimus

To be fair, loving the pet changes. Only as I have a 'fun' pet build to muck around with, mainly as a healer.

I main a sorc however, and still don't get nerfing Overload Into the floor, killing dual wield off totally and wrecking curse.

I dont get the forced pigeon holing at all. Basically now there will be limited build choices. I've persevered with OL and DW to my detriment but only so far you can go.

Vifen

Stop panicking people! Curse change might actually be a BUFF more than a nerf!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/312510/velocious-haunting-curse-side-by-side-theoretical-test#latest

This change is actually good:
- more DPS
- better shield and skill management (=burst + sustain)
- it's harder to keep track of (echo requires no casting animation) so even more help for your burst!

The only thing that got worse with curse is that:
- it's easier to purge
- no ganking ?

DODHitman

Vifen wrote: »

Stop panicking people! Curse change might actually be a BUFF more than a nerf!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/312510/velocious-haunting-curse-side-by-side-theoretical-test#latest

This change is actually good:
- more DPS
- better shield and skill management (=burst + sustain)
- it's harder to keep track of (echo requires no casting animation) so even more help for your burst!

The only thing that got worse with curse is that:
- it's easier to purge
- no ganking ?

Parses only count in PVE "NOT" PVP.....it is a nerf, plain and simple no matter how you try and spin it......

Akimbro

Vifen wrote: »

Stop panicking people! Curse change might actually be a BUFF more than a nerf!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/312510/velocious-haunting-curse-side-by-side-theoretical-test#latest

This change is actually good:
- more DPS
- better shield and skill management (=burst + sustain)
- it's harder to keep track of (echo requires no casting animation) so even more help for your burst!

The only thing that got worse with curse is that:
- it's easier to purge
- no ganking ?

As some have stated in the thread, it is only theoretical and the author assumed inconsistent skill prioritization. It is a nerf to those who are able to do the proper rotation on live. The reason it was changed is because most were not able to execute the complicated rotation, at least not consistently.

Derra

Akimbro wrote: »

Vifen wrote: »

Stop panicking people! Curse change might actually be a BUFF more than a nerf!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/312510/velocious-haunting-curse-side-by-side-theoretical-test#latest

This change is actually good:
- more DPS
- better shield and skill management (=burst + sustain)
- it's harder to keep track of (echo requires no casting animation) so even more help for your burst!

The only thing that got worse with curse is that:
- it's easier to purge
- no ganking ?

As some have stated in the thread, it is only theoretical and the author assumed inconsistent skill prioritization. It is a nerf to those who are able to do the proper rotation on live. The reason it was changed is because most were not able to execute the complicated rotation, at least not consistently.

Can you point me to the math where it´s a nerf? I can´t possible come up with a way where it would be a nerf.
Ofc only looking at strict pve rotation dps.

battlejacob2

I don't really like the idea of making pets a primary source of DPS.
Hurricane nerf has too much of an impact IMO.

Akimbro

Derra wrote: »

Akimbro wrote: »

Vifen wrote: »

Stop panicking people! Curse change might actually be a BUFF more than a nerf!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/312510/velocious-haunting-curse-side-by-side-theoretical-test#latest

This change is actually good:
- more DPS
- better shield and skill management (=burst + sustain)
- it's harder to keep track of (echo requires no casting animation) so even more help for your burst!

The only thing that got worse with curse is that:
- it's easier to purge
- no ganking ?

As some have stated in the thread, it is only theoretical and the author assumed inconsistent skill prioritization. It is a nerf to those who are able to do the proper rotation on live. The reason it was changed is because most were not able to execute the complicated rotation, at least not consistently.

Can you point me to the math where it´s a nerf? I can´t possible come up with a way where it would be a nerf.
Ofc only looking at strict pve rotation dps.

I've spent quite some time testing rotations on the PTS. I thought haunting curse would be an interesting change and I understand how the math favors haunting curse as depicted. For testing, I even replaced 2pc Ilambris with 1pc Ilambris and 1pc kena, and removed the ancient knowledge passive on PTS to be consistent. Now, only running force pulse, frags, and curse the results favored haunting curse as expected. But doing an actual rotation including liquid and blockade and prioritizing higher dps skills per cast (liquid + blockade > frags > curse > force pulse on live vs. liquid + blockade > curse > frags > force pulse on PTS) I was seeing slightly better DPS on live. Now this could be an issue with PTS or how different each player runs their rotations, but my rotations were made to keep dot uptime as close to 100% as possible. The difference is minimal either way which is why I don't truly care for the change. Good players will adapt. There's also the buff to destro staves that more than make up for the difference. But since the example was inclusive of force pulse and frags, you may as well include the other dots since people seem to be anchoring the results of the example as a "dps rotation".

I've heard similar results from other sorcs as well. Most of which I do/have ran HM trials with. Have you tried an actual dps test though to compare? I'm not here to cry nerf or anything, just interested in the testing. Theoretical rotations aren't quite the same as actual rotations, especially with weaving and animations.

rgullaksenb16_ESO

I'm not sure why they would change curse??? As mentioned if you are a solo or small scale- player then this change will affect them the most. Timing is everything when you want to burst a player down as a sorcerer. While I'm waiting for my curse to explode( since I want to hit a crystal fragment when it's about to explode ) then I would need to focus the same person for 6 - 12 secs before switching target, maybe even longer since I also need a crystal fragment proc and also actually hit it.
Let us be real when fighting multiple enemies you don't have the luxury of having 6 - 12 sec before you can burst someone down( trust me, it's a long time). That guy would have plenty of time kill me with his rotation 5 times already before my curse goes even off, cause the only thing I can do while I wait is to spam shields, streak, and force pulse..and that is killing nobody.

IDK man I'm not digging this change at all!

Cheers.

Izaki

Derra wrote: »

Has anyone of the DW experts tested how Nirn mainhand sharpened offhand compares to double sharpened for DW sorc setups?

I´ve never seen anyone talk about that.

Have though of it many times, but never spent the mats on it. Technically, for sorc which doesn't have an easy access to major breach sharpened is still better in the current meta theoretically. The extra spell damage isn't really that important they way most people build DW now (48+k magicka).

Hippie_Einstein

Derra wrote: »

Has anyone of the DW experts tested how Nirn mainhand sharpened offhand compares to double sharpened for DW sorc setups?

I´ve never seen anyone talk about that.

Dual sharpened. Have gold dual sharpened and nirnhoned torugs, mixed them up. Doing just dual sharpened vs 1/1 still gives best damage unless you're only fighting light armor targets.

Hippie_Einstein

I was gonna post saying I know people like me view these posts but don't comment and all sorcs should really say something even if they have to make a profile. But this is looking pointless... As has been stated, why ZOS? Why make a feedback thread with zero feedback? Why would any of us want to continue to pay sub fees when we get so blatantly ignored and sweep under the rug? You've killed a core sorc ability yet still allow proc sets to be stacked 3 high, what balance is this????

Anti_Virus

Minalan wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Force-Siphon wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Curse we need to wait and see.

Nah friend we dont need to wait and see, they need to revert these changes. The sorc community has spoken and we are seriously triggered by being pushed into summoner class. PVP sorcs are literally leaving the game and canceling subs over this. The pet buff was fine for people who want to run pets, but most of us dont and that should be clear by this thread alone.

Sorc is in a really really good spot though with the next patch.
The curse change is just a minor hickup. The buffs to staves outweight this by far.

DW sorcs on the other hand. Well. RIP.

Sorc is in a really good place if your idea of PVP is to faceroll staff attacks and force pulse until frags is proc'ed.

If your idea of PVP is to follow a 'rotation'. This patch is probably for you.

For those of us that applied curse thoughtfully to counter and pressure good players employing specific nasty gameplay mechanics (purge, cloak, block tanks, breath of life, reflect, dodge roll, etc). This is a nerf. Not just a small nerf either. The really good sorcs lining up to bail out know exactly what I'm talking about.

PVP is more than spamming heavy attack and hitting the "1" key until your stupid add-on tells you that frags is up. It takes thought and awareness. There is a reason 3.5 seconds worked so well.

You act like this is the end of the world.

Sorcs got buffed:

EOtS got buffed lighting staff 8% buff - 5% EOtS nerf 4 3% buff

Storm Atro will hit harder

Pet improvements ( like it or not the class was designed to use pets I mean it has an entire skill tree around it)

Impulse is now unreflectable( Rip wings now its useless)

Curse isn't a nerf but a change, it buffs PVE dmg but nerfs pvp burst.

Flame staff got an 8% single target dmg buff

Ice staff can now be used with light armor and make it tanky, it has the same Block passives as Sword and Shield.

Honestly mSorcs is in a good spot.

DW is and option but its a stamina weapon so you have to use a staff for dps, I wish I could use a bow for my dps but I can't, we don't always get your way with Mr. Wrobel unfortunately.

Anti_Virus

[Delete]

MercTheMage

Hippie_Einstein wrote: »

I was gonna post saying I know people like me view these posts but don't comment and all sorcs should really say something even if they have to make a profile. But this is looking pointless... As has been stated, why ZOS? Why make a feedback thread with zero feedback? Why would any of us want to continue to pay sub fees when we get so blatantly ignored and sweep under the rug? You've killed a core sorc ability yet still allow proc sets to be stacked 3 high, what balance is this????

Wrobel's balance >.>

Minalan

Anti_Virus wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Force-Siphon wrote: »

Beardimus wrote: »

Curse we need to wait and see.

Nah friend we dont need to wait and see, they need to revert these changes. The sorc community has spoken and we are seriously triggered by being pushed into summoner class. PVP sorcs are literally leaving the game and canceling subs over this. The pet buff was fine for people who want to run pets, but most of us dont and that should be clear by this thread alone.

Sorc is in a really really good spot though with the next patch.
The curse change is just a minor hickup. The buffs to staves outweight this by far.

DW sorcs on the other hand. Well. RIP.

Sorc is in a really good place if your idea of PVP is to faceroll staff attacks and force pulse until frags is proc'ed.

If your idea of PVP is to follow a 'rotation'. This patch is probably for you.

For those of us that applied curse thoughtfully to counter and pressure good players employing specific nasty gameplay mechanics (purge, cloak, block tanks, breath of life, reflect, dodge roll, etc). This is a nerf. Not just a small nerf either. The really good sorcs lining up to bail out know exactly what I'm talking about.

PVP is more than spamming heavy attack and hitting the "1" key until your stupid add-on tells you that frags is up. It takes thought and awareness. There is a reason 3.5 seconds worked so well.

You act like this is the end of the world.

Sorcs got buffed:

EOtS got buffed lighting staff 8% buff - 5% EOtS nerf = 3% buff

Storm Atro will hit harder

Pet improvements ( like it or not the class was designed to use pets I mean it has an entire skill tree around it)

Impulse is now unreflectable( Rip wings now its useless)

Curse isn't a nerf but a change, it buffs PVE dmg but nerfs pvp burst.

Flame staff got an 8% single target dmg buff

Ice staff can now be used with light armor and make it tanky, it has the same Block passives as Sword and Shield.

Honestly mSorcs is in a good spot.

DW is and option but its a stamina weapon so you have to use a staff for dps, I wish I could use a bow for my dps but I can't, we don't always get your way with Mr. Wrobel unfortunately.

.

You're right, it's not the end of the world, just don't call this a PVP 'buff'. They devs already said that they were reconsidering the change. Hopefully they retain the separate PVP and PVE optimal variants.

Derra

Akimbro wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Akimbro wrote: »

Vifen wrote: »

Stop panicking people! Curse change might actually be a BUFF more than a nerf!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/312510/velocious-haunting-curse-side-by-side-theoretical-test#latest

This change is actually good:
- more DPS
- better shield and skill management (=burst + sustain)
- it's harder to keep track of (echo requires no casting animation) so even more help for your burst!

The only thing that got worse with curse is that:
- it's easier to purge
- no ganking ?

As some have stated in the thread, it is only theoretical and the author assumed inconsistent skill prioritization. It is a nerf to those who are able to do the proper rotation on live. The reason it was changed is because most were not able to execute the complicated rotation, at least not consistently.

Can you point me to the math where it´s a nerf? I can´t possible come up with a way where it would be a nerf.
Ofc only looking at strict pve rotation dps.

I've spent quite some time testing rotations on the PTS. I thought haunting curse would be an interesting change and I understand how the math favors haunting curse as depicted. For testing, I even replaced 2pc Ilambris with 1pc Ilambris and 1pc kena, and removed the ancient knowledge passive on PTS to be consistent. Now, only running force pulse, frags, and curse the results favored haunting curse as expected. But doing an actual rotation including liquid and blockade and prioritizing higher dps skills per cast (liquid + blockade > frags > curse > force pulse on live vs. liquid + blockade > curse > frags > force pulse on PTS) I was seeing slightly better DPS on live. Now this could be an issue with PTS or how different each player runs their rotations, but my rotations were made to keep dot uptime as close to 100% as possible. The difference is minimal either way which is why I don't truly care for the change. Good players will adapt. There's also the buff to destro staves that more than make up for the difference. But since the example was inclusive of force pulse and frags, you may as well include the other dots since people seem to be anchoring the results of the example as a "dps rotation".

I've heard similar results from other sorcs as well. Most of which I do/have ran HM trials with. Have you tried an actual dps test though to compare? I'm not here to cry nerf or anything, just interested in the testing. Theoretical rotations aren't quite the same as actual rotations, especially with weaving and animations.

I can´t come up with a way to compare it 1:1 due to the nature of the destro staff changes. For the most part theory will have to do as putting it into practice especially when changing a long used rotation takes time to getting used to.

Double ice staff might work but i´d have to use different gear than i currently have for that.

hazzer6x

Please don't ruin Volicious Curse, it's a completely unnecessary change!

FearlessOne_2014

The nerf class/sorc chronicles are design to do one thing and one thing only. To turn into a gamer like me who has brought the 4 extra character slots. Or race change to stam sorc for 3000 crowns. I can't believe yall didn't see this one coming. I saw it coming a million light years away, right when ZOS add race change for 3000 crowns, and has planned accordingly for the future. 11 Max level characters plus a mule to hold all of the gear my other characters are not using.

Sorry to break it to you guys. But to put it simply this was nothing more then a nerf brought on by the Marketing and Upper Management teams. The same with Magplar's nerfs. This is how MMO companies make money these days. It's high time yall finally arm yall selves with this knowledge and plan accordingly instead of being made victims off.

Now a person like me. Long as I stay out of Cyrodiil ZOS, and take my PvP to actually dedicated PvP games. ZOS could go what ever way they want at this point with class changes, and I'll still come out ahead. Maybe start looking at it from that point of view?

http://imgur.com/a/5Nlkf

Akimbro

Derra wrote: »

Akimbro wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Akimbro wrote: »

Vifen wrote: »

Stop panicking people! Curse change might actually be a BUFF more than a nerf!

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/312510/velocious-haunting-curse-side-by-side-theoretical-test#latest

This change is actually good:
- more DPS
- better shield and skill management (=burst + sustain)
- it's harder to keep track of (echo requires no casting animation) so even more help for your burst!

The only thing that got worse with curse is that:
- it's easier to purge
- no ganking ?

As some have stated in the thread, it is only theoretical and the author assumed inconsistent skill prioritization. It is a nerf to those who are able to do the proper rotation on live. The reason it was changed is because most were not able to execute the complicated rotation, at least not consistently.

Can you point me to the math where it´s a nerf? I can´t possible come up with a way where it would be a nerf.
Ofc only looking at strict pve rotation dps.

I've spent quite some time testing rotations on the PTS. I thought haunting curse would be an interesting change and I understand how the math favors haunting curse as depicted. For testing, I even replaced 2pc Ilambris with 1pc Ilambris and 1pc kena, and removed the ancient knowledge passive on PTS to be consistent. Now, only running force pulse, frags, and curse the results favored haunting curse as expected. But doing an actual rotation including liquid and blockade and prioritizing higher dps skills per cast (liquid + blockade > frags > curse > force pulse on live vs. liquid + blockade > curse > frags > force pulse on PTS) I was seeing slightly better DPS on live. Now this could be an issue with PTS or how different each player runs their rotations, but my rotations were made to keep dot uptime as close to 100% as possible. The difference is minimal either way which is why I don't truly care for the change. Good players will adapt. There's also the buff to destro staves that more than make up for the difference. But since the example was inclusive of force pulse and frags, you may as well include the other dots since people seem to be anchoring the results of the example as a "dps rotation".

I've heard similar results from other sorcs as well. Most of which I do/have ran HM trials with. Have you tried an actual dps test though to compare? I'm not here to cry nerf or anything, just interested in the testing. Theoretical rotations aren't quite the same as actual rotations, especially with weaving and animations.

I can´t come up with a way to compare it 1:1 due to the nature of the destro staff changes. For the most part theory will have to do as putting it into practice especially when changing a long used rotation takes time to getting used to.

Double ice staff might work but i´d have to use different gear than i currently have for that.

Yeah it's a bit difficult to test. Speaking for the skill itself it is a nerf. But I'll have to test more since you can actually add in another dot to the haunting curse 12s rotation.

Either way, changing a perfectly working skill for simplicity's sake is not a good reason to change a skill. They should really reconsider changing the daedric prey morph instead.

Tyrobag

I know you guys have already heard plenty of our complaining(14 pages full of people all angry about the same thing), but as the Silvenar once said "A chorus of requests may succeed in carrying the tune." Killing Velocious Curse was completely unnecessary. I don't know why you guys insist on beating the crap out of Sorcs with each update, but its starting to get ridiculous. This is a major Sorc ability that was perfectly balanced. If you have any honor remaining, please revert this change.

Hippie_Einstein

Tyrobag wrote: »

If you have any honor remaining, please revert this change.

No honor among thieves. They will clearly break one of our core abilities with no answer as to why or who asked for this. These patches wouldn't be so bad if they gave us a reason as to why or who wants them or maybe worked with the community to find balance. I'm really curious what made this decision go through because no one complained about vc. Forum checking shows everyone is majority in agreement procs shouldn't stack 3 high, heavy armor needs nerf, and light armor needs buff but not a single one of those touched? Really? And they have the audacity to call this a "balance" when those 3 have been rampant for months. Feels like ZOS giving us all a big finger saying they do whatever they want to make money, *** the players... With sorc it feels like we're ZOS's one night stand. Constantly getting *** without a simple call back or explanation

Anti_Virus

[Deleted double post]

Dartricz

If the change to Velicious curse goes to live I will definitely be dropping my subscription. And will most likely drop the game all together.. sorc is the only class I enjoy playing PvP with, if they take away velicious I can't see a reason to play anymore.
I have been subbed to this game almost the whole time it's since beta. Just listen to what people want zoz

STEVIL

Hippie_Einstein wrote: »

Tyrobag wrote: »

If you have any honor remaining, please revert this change.

No honor among thieves. They will clearly break one of our core abilities with no answer as to why or who asked for this. These patches wouldn't be so bad if they gave us a reason as to why or who wants them or maybe worked with the community to find balance. I'm really curious what made this decision go through because no one complained about vc. Forum checking shows everyone is majority in agreement procs shouldn't stack 3 high, heavy armor needs nerf, and light armor needs buff but not a single one of those touched? Really? And they have the audacity to call this a "balance" when those 3 have been rampant for months. Feels like ZOS giving us all a big finger saying they do whatever they want to make money, *** the players... With sorc it feels like we're ZOS's one night stand. Constantly getting *** without a simple call back or explanation

No one complained about VC

however lotsa PLAYERS complained about high burst short duration fights in PVP, lotsa PLAYERS complained about staff v dw spell damage, lotsa PLAYERS complained about the sustained damage shortfall between magica compared to stamina etc and other related issues which make toning down some of the higher burst combos (while buffing overall dps for non-dw mag) all of which tie into needing to reduce the strength of the SBT (sorc burst trinity) in conjunction with the other changes.

i think we will likely see it altered in PTS3, a dot or other type of option, but keeping the SBT as it was plus the 8% boost to frags and VC adding in with the staff really aint gonna happen in a tone-down-burst balance patch.

First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics applies.

Every major patch some previous builds/metas/sequences get changed and players evolve their play to suit it.

Wasn't that long ago heavy armor was only for tanking and was useless even for that compared to medium builds according to many complaints from PLAYERS across these very forums.