Hippie_Einstein wrote: »If you have any honor remaining, please revert this change.
No honor among thieves. They will clearly break one of our core abilities with no answer as to why or who asked for this. These patches wouldn't be so bad if they gave us a reason as to why or who wants them or maybe worked with the community to find balance. I'm really curious what made this decision go through because no one complained about vc. Forum checking shows everyone is majority in agreement procs shouldn't stack 3 high, heavy armor needs nerf, and light armor needs buff but not a single one of those touched? Really? And they have the audacity to call this a "balance" when those 3 have been rampant for months. Feels like ZOS giving us all a big finger saying they do whatever they want to make money, *** the players... With sorc it feels like we're ZOS's one night stand. Constantly getting *** without a simple call back or explanation
No one complained about VC
however lotsa PLAYERS complained about high burst short duration fights in PVP, lotsa PLAYERS complained about staff v dw spell damage, lotsa PLAYERS complained about the sustained damage shortfall between magica compared to stamina etc and other related issues which make toning down some of the higher burst combos (while buffing overall dps for non-dw mag) all of which tie into needing to reduce the strength of the SBT (sorc burst trinity) in conjunction with the other changes.
i think we will likely see it altered in PTS3, a dot or other type of option, but keeping the SBT as it was plus the 8% boost to frags and VC adding in with the staff really aint gonna happen in a tone-down-burst balance patch.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics applies.
Every major patch some previous builds/metas/sequences get changed and players evolve their play to suit it.
Wasn't that long ago heavy armor was only for tanking and was useless even for that compared to medium builds according to many complaints from PLAYERS across these very forums.
Hippie_Einstein wrote: »If you have any honor remaining, please revert this change.
No honor among thieves. They will clearly break one of our core abilities with no answer as to why or who asked for this. These patches wouldn't be so bad if they gave us a reason as to why or who wants them or maybe worked with the community to find balance. I'm really curious what made this decision go through because no one complained about vc. Forum checking shows everyone is majority in agreement procs shouldn't stack 3 high, heavy armor needs nerf, and light armor needs buff but not a single one of those touched? Really? And they have the audacity to call this a "balance" when those 3 have been rampant for months. Feels like ZOS giving us all a big finger saying they do whatever they want to make money, *** the players... With sorc it feels like we're ZOS's one night stand. Constantly getting *** without a simple call back or explanation
No one complained about VC
however lotsa PLAYERS complained about high burst short duration fights in PVP, lotsa PLAYERS complained about staff v dw spell damage, lotsa PLAYERS complained about the sustained damage shortfall between magica compared to stamina etc and other related issues which make toning down some of the higher burst combos (while buffing overall dps for non-dw mag) all of which tie into needing to reduce the strength of the SBT (sorc burst trinity) in conjunction with the other changes.
i think we will likely see it altered in PTS3, a dot or other type of option, but keeping the SBT as it was plus the 8% boost to frags and VC adding in with the staff really aint gonna happen in a tone-down-burst balance patch.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics applies.
Every major patch some previous builds/metas/sequences get changed and players evolve their play to suit it.
Wasn't that long ago heavy armor was only for tanking and was useless even for that compared to medium builds according to many complaints from PLAYERS across these very forums.
You mean complaints from YOU. Not PLAYERS.
I hope it goes in, full 8% boost on the staff with frags and curse. We already have that today with dual wield and empower, putting it on a staff makes zero difference.
Most of all, next patch we're going to need the 'burst' to deal with ice staff block builds, especially on a Magplar. Blocking that takes magicka
Breath of life
Minor magicka steal debuff on everyone.
Hippie_Einstein wrote: »If you have any honor remaining, please revert this change.
No honor among thieves. They will clearly break one of our core abilities with no answer as to why or who asked for this. These patches wouldn't be so bad if they gave us a reason as to why or who wants them or maybe worked with the community to find balance. I'm really curious what made this decision go through because no one complained about vc. Forum checking shows everyone is majority in agreement procs shouldn't stack 3 high, heavy armor needs nerf, and light armor needs buff but not a single one of those touched? Really? And they have the audacity to call this a "balance" when those 3 have been rampant for months. Feels like ZOS giving us all a big finger saying they do whatever they want to make money, *** the players... With sorc it feels like we're ZOS's one night stand. Constantly getting *** without a simple call back or explanation
No one complained about VC
however lotsa PLAYERS complained about high burst short duration fights in PVP, lotsa PLAYERS complained about staff v dw spell damage, lotsa PLAYERS complained about the sustained damage shortfall between magica compared to stamina etc and other related issues which make toning down some of the higher burst combos (while buffing overall dps for non-dw mag) all of which tie into needing to reduce the strength of the SBT (sorc burst trinity) in conjunction with the other changes.
i think we will likely see it altered in PTS3, a dot or other type of option, but keeping the SBT as it was plus the 8% boost to frags and VC adding in with the staff really aint gonna happen in a tone-down-burst balance patch.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics applies.
Every major patch some previous builds/metas/sequences get changed and players evolve their play to suit it.
Wasn't that long ago heavy armor was only for tanking and was useless even for that compared to medium builds according to many complaints from PLAYERS across these very forums.
You mean complaints from YOU. Not PLAYERS.
I hope it goes in, full 8% boost on the staff with frags and curse. We already have that today with dual wield and empower, putting it on a staff makes zero difference.
Most of all, next patch we're going to need the 'burst' to deal with ice staff block builds, especially on a Magplar. Blocking that takes magicka
Breath of life
Minor magicka steal debuff on everyone.
That is so hilarious.
Really it is.
Just rib hurting bust a gut funny cuz frankly i did not comlain about burst or hvy v med or those others. I dont mind things getting closer and the back and forth ebb and flow doesnt rattle me.
So, no, its not been me before the VC pts chg complaining about high burst and proc sets - i coined the term recap sets for them. Not been me leading the lower burst charge.
Maybe, next time, you wanna research before claim.
Nah, that wouldnt be as much fun.
i confess to being curious how many of the "put VC back" supporters fall into::
1 - The "the high burst in PVP now is great" crowd
2 - The "high burst in PVP in the game now is bad but its all everyone else's burst, not mine" crowd.
3 - Other?
Hippie_Einstein wrote: »If you have any honor remaining, please revert this change.
No honor among thieves. They will clearly break one of our core abilities with no answer as to why or who asked for this. These patches wouldn't be so bad if they gave us a reason as to why or who wants them or maybe worked with the community to find balance. I'm really curious what made this decision go through because no one complained about vc. Forum checking shows everyone is majority in agreement procs shouldn't stack 3 high, heavy armor needs nerf, and light armor needs buff but not a single one of those touched? Really? And they have the audacity to call this a "balance" when those 3 have been rampant for months. Feels like ZOS giving us all a big finger saying they do whatever they want to make money, *** the players... With sorc it feels like we're ZOS's one night stand. Constantly getting *** without a simple call back or explanation
No one complained about VC
however lotsa PLAYERS complained about high burst short duration fights in PVP, lotsa PLAYERS complained about staff v dw spell damage, lotsa PLAYERS complained about the sustained damage shortfall between magica compared to stamina etc and other related issues which make toning down some of the higher burst combos (while buffing overall dps for non-dw mag) all of which tie into needing to reduce the strength of the SBT (sorc burst trinity) in conjunction with the other changes.
i think we will likely see it altered in PTS3, a dot or other type of option, but keeping the SBT as it was plus the 8% boost to frags and VC adding in with the staff really aint gonna happen in a tone-down-burst balance patch.
First Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics applies.
Every major patch some previous builds/metas/sequences get changed and players evolve their play to suit it.
Wasn't that long ago heavy armor was only for tanking and was useless even for that compared to medium builds according to many complaints from PLAYERS across these very forums.
You mean complaints from YOU. Not PLAYERS.
I hope it goes in, full 8% boost on the staff with frags and curse. We already have that today with dual wield and empower, putting it on a staff makes zero difference.
Most of all, next patch we're going to need the 'burst' to deal with ice staff block builds, especially on a Magplar. Blocking that takes magicka
Breath of life
Minor magicka steal debuff on everyone.
That is so hilarious.
Really it is.
Just rib hurting bust a gut funny cuz frankly i did not comlain about burst or hvy v med or those others. I dont mind things getting closer and the back and forth ebb and flow doesnt rattle me.
So, no, its not been me before the VC pts chg complaining about high burst and proc sets - i coined the term recap sets for them. Not been me leading the lower burst charge.
Maybe, next time, you wanna research before claim.
Nah, that wouldnt be as much fun.
You're the only one complaining about it. Stop pretending that this is your first whine post about burst in PVP.i confess to being curious how many of the "put VC back" supporters fall into::
1 - The "the high burst in PVP now is great" crowd
2 - The "high burst in PVP in the game now is bad but its all everyone else's burst, not mine" crowd.
3 - Other?
Still laughing? Oh I see your sarcastic loaded choice here is just 'wondering' is it?
Hippie_Einstein wrote: »All these changes do is make meta more dominant than it already was. VC is core for sorc rotation and has never been a problem. 12s until recast is boring. Being forced into less playstyle choices is boring. There are far better ways to go about balance. You talk about burst like this VC change will stop people from destro ulting or killing from stealth. Does nothing to help that. Nor address viper stacked with other sets or proccing twice from DW. There's a lot of issues, this does not help in a PvP aspect when magsorcs are about burst and survivability. Sorcs need burst against heavy armor. No fix to heavy armor or buff to light armor=/=giving less burst.
Another Change I keep forgetting:
Mage guild skills should only empower *magicka* abilities.
Stam users regularly use it to empower things like incap strike for quick ganks, and they really don't need it.
The change would let magicka nightblades keep using it of course. It's our skill line damnit, not theirs.
Another Change I keep forgetting:
Mage guild skills should only empower *magicka* abilities.
Stam users regularly use it to empower things like incap strike for quick ganks, and they really don't need it.
The change would let magicka nightblades keep using it of course. It's our skill line damnit, not theirs.
Should that fighter's guild trap that gives the force buff (iirc) also not count for magica skills/attacks then if your suggestion goes thru? i mean there are example cited of folks running magica and running that skill for the force buff.
I mean, after all "its their skill line damnit, not ours."
goose, gander and all that.
Hippie_Einstein wrote: »All these changes do is make meta more dominant than it already was. VC is core for sorc rotation and has never been a problem. 12s until recast is boring. Being forced into less playstyle choices is boring. There are far better ways to go about balance. You talk about burst like this VC change will stop people from destro ulting or killing from stealth. Does nothing to help that. Nor address viper stacked with other sets or proccing twice from DW. There's a lot of issues, this does not help in a PvP aspect when magsorcs are about burst and survivability. Sorcs need burst against heavy armor. No fix to heavy armor or buff to light armor=/=giving less burst.
RE the bold - honestly, if you look back at the forums you will see that a lot of the more strident fevered complaints are easily seen as "the meta i use is being replaced by this new one" (my First law of Nerf-o-Dynamics" and any changes that "address" those issues by their very nature will be a "move back to the old meta" kind of thing.
but really, its a question of which "meta" you are referring to?
A lot of the complaints hinge around survivability of hvy armor - which kicked the old "max offense medium/light" metas in their privates after TG iirc. The hvy could survive the high offense in some builds. old meta down, must complain.
A lot of the complaints shifted to burst (and also burst-hvy) when pvp burst became high enough that the old meta of "max offense medium/light" was killable with burst even if well constructed with frequently not getting a shot off. See many many "killed by no skill" threads and posts over the months since !t and some even before then.
All of which adds up to no way in heck ZOS would be working to RAISE burst on any high burst class-combos, esp ones with current streams and vids talking about the particular combo being so effective at prodcing foe-killing burst.
You are right, the VC change wont solve everything but if they had raised burst for sorc (8% boost plus the old VC) while reducing burst for many others it would not have made for better balance.
The specific change they made reduces sorc burst for magsorcs AND raises sorc sustain DPS narrowly (doesn't lower it) though obviously both of those "depend on build and rotation". That general change makes a lot of sense in the context of this patch.
As for Vipers procs, SAKs, hvy armor etc - there are changes dealing with those or some of those already in and they have said clearly more changes are coming in PTS 3 that this was not the sum of the areas they were targeting.
But really "leave our burst alone" while they work to tone down burst for most everyone else who hit high burst, thats definitely a primo example of the first Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics.
Hippie_Einstein wrote: »All these changes do is make meta more dominant than it already was. VC is core for sorc rotation and has never been a problem. 12s until recast is boring. Being forced into less playstyle choices is boring. There are far better ways to go about balance. You talk about burst like this VC change will stop people from destro ulting or killing from stealth. Does nothing to help that. Nor address viper stacked with other sets or proccing twice from DW. There's a lot of issues, this does not help in a PvP aspect when magsorcs are about burst and survivability. Sorcs need burst against heavy armor. No fix to heavy armor or buff to light armor=/=giving less burst.
RE the bold - honestly, if you look back at the forums you will see that a lot of the more strident fevered complaints are easily seen as "the meta i use is being replaced by this new one" (my First law of Nerf-o-Dynamics" and any changes that "address" those issues by their very nature will be a "move back to the old meta" kind of thing.
but really, its a question of which "meta" you are referring to?
A lot of the complaints hinge around survivability of hvy armor - which kicked the old "max offense medium/light" metas in their privates after TG iirc. The hvy could survive the high offense in some builds. old meta down, must complain.
A lot of the complaints shifted to burst (and also burst-hvy) when pvp burst became high enough that the old meta of "max offense medium/light" was killable with burst even if well constructed with frequently not getting a shot off. See many many "killed by no skill" threads and posts over the months since !t and some even before then.
All of which adds up to no way in heck ZOS would be working to RAISE burst on any high burst class-combos, esp ones with current streams and vids talking about the particular combo being so effective at prodcing foe-killing burst.
You are right, the VC change wont solve everything but if they had raised burst for sorc (8% boost plus the old VC) while reducing burst for many others it would not have made for better balance.
The specific change they made reduces sorc burst for magsorcs AND raises sorc sustain DPS narrowly (doesn't lower it) though obviously both of those "depend on build and rotation". That general change makes a lot of sense in the context of this patch.
As for Vipers procs, SAKs, hvy armor etc - there are changes dealing with those or some of those already in and they have said clearly more changes are coming in PTS 3 that this was not the sum of the areas they were targeting.
But really "leave our burst alone" while they work to tone down burst for most everyone else who hit high burst, thats definitely a primo example of the first Law of Nerf-o-Dynamics.
I think, people have a problem with heavy armor tank builds having burst. Heavy armor stamina tank builds have it all. They get Healing, tanking, burst damage, and then amazing sprint/rapids mobility on top of that. The complaints I hear are that you should only be able to do a couple of those at the same time, because there's little that they can't do better than most other builds.
Sorcs currently have mobility and damage as inherent advantages in the design of the class. Of course we'll resist taking the latter away, we have 10K resists in light armor, and we crutch on one resto ability to heal that usually goes to someone else nearby that needs it.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks for all the feedback everyone's provided so far! We have been reading, and we'll be making some tweaks to all classes in next week's PTS patch. Once we wrap everything up, we'll share our current plans for the Sorcerer later this week.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks for all the feedback everyone's provided so far! We have been reading, and we'll be making some tweaks to all classes in next week's PTS patch. Once we wrap everything up, we'll share our current plans for the Sorcerer later this week.
You are right, the VC change wont solve everything but if they had raised burst for sorc (8% boost plus the old VC) while reducing burst for many others it would not have made for better balance.
I'm probably in the minority, but I love Haunting Curse. The double explosion is really satisfying, and it's nice to not have to keep casting it every few seconds (I can focus on maintaining other spells instead).
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks for all the feedback everyone's provided so far! We have been reading, and we'll be making some tweaks to all classes in next week's PTS patch. Once we wrap everything up, we'll share our current plans for the Sorcerer later this week.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks for all the feedback everyone's provided so far! We have been reading, and we'll be making some tweaks to all classes in next week's PTS patch. Once we wrap everything up, we'll share our current plans for the Sorcerer later this week.
Can u PLS do this for all classes... Maybe like this you can see people thoughts and act right move for all of us before the patch comes live...And we all play with FUN
We all want this game be better...Cuz We love it
-Velicious Curse Revert
-Light Armor Toning Up
-No Penalty to streak - Cuz non of other classes Gap closers HAS IT
-More damage for our finisher MAGEs Wrath it is the weakest one as finisher
-Dont Destroy DW SORC or give us lost SD from some other Passives
-Shields 10 or 12 secs or make Evesion 6 seconds to make balance between Stam and Magicka...6 secs for shields Destroy Sustain...
-Magicka COST for skills Should be little reduced to compare again with stamina( I even dont need to use Potion for stamina)
- 500 cap for Ultimate REALLY pls dont ...It is nothing about balance or need
If u wanna make Rotation easier for new Players:
- Make Blokade 12 secs
- Make Liquid Lighting 12 secs
- Make boundless Storm 24 or 36 Seconds
It will help new Players for rotation and dont mess with Balance in PVP or PVE and no mess with skills ALSO:)...
Thank you.
ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks for all the feedback everyone's provided so far! We have been reading, and we'll be making some tweaks to all classes in next week's PTS patch. Once we wrap everything up, we'll share our current plans for the Sorcerer later this week.
Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »Thanks for all the feedback everyone's provided so far! We have been reading, and we'll be making some tweaks to all classes in next week's PTS patch. Once we wrap everything up, we'll share our current plans for the Sorcerer later this week.
Can u PLS do this for all classes... Maybe like this you can see people thoughts and act right move for all of us before the patch comes live...And we all play with FUN
We all want this game be better...Cuz We love it
-Velicious Curse Revert
-Light Armor Toning Up
-No Penalty to streak - Cuz non of other classes Gap closers HAS IT
-More damage for our finisher MAGEs Wrath it is the weakest one as finisher
-Dont Destroy DW SORC or give us lost SD from some other Passives
-Shields 10 or 12 secs or make Evesion 6 seconds to make balance between Stam and Magicka...6 secs for shields Destroy Sustain...
-Magicka COST for skills Should be little reduced to compare again with stamina( I even dont need to use Potion for stamina)
- 500 cap for Ultimate REALLY pls dont ...It is nothing about balance or need
If u wanna make Rotation easier for new Players:
- Make Blokade 12 secs
- Make Liquid Lighting 12 secs
- Make boundless Storm 24 or 36 Seconds
It will help new Players for rotation and dont mess with Balance in PVP or PVE and no mess with skills ALSO:)...
Thank you.
Lol she did post in each of the classes discussion with the same response except with the pertinent class name where sorcerer is, so don't think that sorcs are somehow special. Maybe start reading ALL the class changes to get some perspective on how everyone is feeling about the changes coming to the game. (Hint, every class is garbage and the changes make no sense- literally everyone in each of the class threads)
i agree shield length should be increased, maybe not back to 20sec but 6 is too short making it hard to maintain and and a magic burner. Why is curse getting a nerf?
Sweetpea704 wrote: »i agree shield length should be increased, maybe not back to 20sec but 6 is too short making it hard to maintain and and a magic burner. Why is curse getting a nerf?
Yes, this is a huge problem in pvp, because the Stam nightblades use pots that drain your magicka and then you basically can' t put your shield up. In the name of balance, why don't you give mag toons the equivalent of that freaking absorb magicka, which is making the dk's freaking unkillable.